The Climate Mechanisms of World Deserts and Limitations in Allan Savory’s thesis.

Guest post by Dr. Tim Ball – a response to this WUWT post on Allan Savory

Dr Allan Savory proposes stopping desertification and controlling climate change. His focus is a large natural vegetation area called grasslands. His idea of raising cattle to maintain grasslands is founded on the grazing and fertilizing cycle provided by herbivores. Bermuda Grass is an example of a grassland plant species that thrives on being constantly cropped. It grows thick and dense the more it is cut, making it ideal for golf greens. Savory’s ideas all sound attractive and ‘green’ and not without some merit, but are riddled with problems. It is not clear, indeed unlikely, that his proposals would measurably alter natural climate change.

Watching his presentation I imagined all the ‘environmentalists’ recoiling at his suggestions. It is not long since radical environmentalists like Jeremy Rifkin were blaming cattle for most of the evils of western society in his 1992 book, Beyond Beef: The Rise and Fall of the Cattle Culture. True, Savory showed sheep, but he should also have introduced the idea of restocking some areas with natural herds, such as bison in North America. These areas would become world funded preservation areas of natural species as George Perkins Marsh proposed in his 1864 book Man and Nature. Marsh was also among the first in modern times to idenitfy the relationship between removal of vegetation and desertification.

The major conflict is between domesticated and wild herbivores and the production of foodstuffs. This included growing grains to feed the cattle or overgrazing. Presumably, Savory is suggesting domesticated animals to also expand the food supply. The problem is expansion of the food supply usually creates an increase in the human population, which Savory says is at the heart of the world’s problems.

Savory’s Assumptions

He makes three major assumptions, all arguable. First is the claim the world is overpopulated. It is not! People, apparently including Savory, believe it is because of the neo-Malthusian claim underlying the alarmism of the Club of Rome in the 1970s. Claims of overpopulation primarily came from Paul Ehrlich’s work, but his predictions were so inaccurate it’s a wonder he retains any credibility. The reason the ideas remain is probably because supporters of his ideas are in positions of power today. For example, Ehrlich’s co-author of a truly frightening book Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment is President Obama’s Science Tsar, John Holdren. In addition, graduates of 1979s and 1980s environmental studies programs are now running the bureaucracies using those ideas.

The second error is his identification of land ‘suffering’ from desertification. Savory identifies five regions on a world map (Figure 1). He is using the term desertification as it evolved back in the 1970s, that is as an environmental problem caused by humans. The problem is almost all the regions he identifies are natural climatic regions of desert and grasslands. He says there is “no other cause” than humans for desertification, which is only true because of his definition. In a 2005 work, “The causes and progression of desertification,” Geist identified more than 100 definitions. Any region that loses vegetation becomes a desert, which happens all the time as climate changes. If you don’t know how much change is due to natural causes you can’t determine the human portion. It is the same as the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) examining only human causes of climate change without knowing how much it changes naturally.

The third error he makes, is to assume climate change is new and caused by humans. It isn’t. The amount of change is well within natural variability, but the IPCC and its proponents persistently work to prove it is outside and therfore unnatural. Savory is apparently vulnerable to the “human cause” claim because he blames humans for desertification.

Basic Arid Zone Pattern

The trouble is it appears Savory lacks some basic understandings including;

• how deserts are formed and change with climate change,

• how or why the major hot deserts are generally located within 15 to 35° of latitude each side of the Equator and,

• how grasslands are a transitional area of slightly higher precipitation that surround the deserts and lie between the deserts and the forests. Grassland names differ from Steppe in Russia; Great Plains in the US and their northern extension the Prairies in Canada; Llanos in northern South America; Pampas in southern South America; to Savanna and Veldt in Africa.

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Figure 1: Areas of desertificcation identified by Allan Savory

Source: Screen Capture from his presentation

The Sahel is just such a transitional region between the rainforest on the coast of west Africa and the true desert of the Sahara. Alarmist stories appeared about the expanding Sahara desert associated with the cyclical Sahelian drought that visited the region between 1968 and 1974. Famine accompanied the drought and overgrazing was blamed. It, and another drought in 1984-85, launched the environmental career of Bob Geldof.

A similar desertification situation was identified in the Thar desert on the Indian-Pakistan border in the 1970s, with claims the area wasn’t totally ‘natural’ but created by overgrazing, especially by the ubiquitous goat. University of Wisconsin climatologist Reid Bryson theorized that removal of vegetation cover increased surface temperatures, which caused increase convection and advection (wind). Resulting soil erosion and winds carried dust to altitude. Here it absorbed sunlight directly, raising upper air temperatures while reducing surface heating. Warm air over cold is an inversion, a very stable situation that prevents cloud formation, thus perpetuating the aridity. As I recall, much money was spent on bringing water into the region to plant grasses and stabilize the surface to break the cycle. The grass promoted was Marram, a well known sand dune stabilizer.

World Hot Deserts and Grasslands

It is impossible to get even crude estimates of the percentage of land surface that is grassland or desert. Land is 149 million km2 of the Earth’s total surface and hot deserts make-up an estimated 15 to 30 percent (Figure 2). The Sahara provides a scale because it is 9.1 million km2, almost identical to the land area of the US. The hot deserts of the world in order (millions of km2) are;

Sahara – 9.1

Central Asia – 4.5

Australian – 3.4

North American – 1.3

Patagonian – 0.7

Indian – 0.6

Kalahari – Namib 0.57

Atacama – 0.36

The word ‘hot’ is in bold because, as Koppen (Figures 4 and 5) recognized in his climate classification system, there are vast cold deserts. The North and South poles are among the driest places on Earth.

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Figure 2. Major hot deserts generally straddling the Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn.

In his system, Koppen identified “B” climates primarily as those with insufficient ‘effective’ precipitation to support trees (BS for Steppe climate) then grass (BW desert climate). He further divided BW climates into BWh (coldest month average above 0°C) and BWk (at least one month average below 0°C). When doing a Koppen classification you begin by eliminating the B climates. Savory lumps them together as shown in Figure 1.

Estimates for grassland are more variable than for deserts varying from 15 to 40 percent of the land surface, excluding Antarctica and Greenland. Savory showed, unknowingly, why defining grasslands is so difficult. He showed clumps of grass with bare ground in between, implying they were examples of desertification. The problem is such conditions are natural and exist over very large areas with grasses known as tussock.

The sun is directly overhead the equator twice a year and is never more than approximately 23.5° from the vertical. This results in maximum heat energy and therefore high year round temperatures. It creates what was known as the “heat equator”, which, because of land water differences is not coincident with the actual Equator. Belem on the Amazon in the interior of Brazil has a range of 1.6°C from the warmest to the coolest month.

High temperatures result in high evaporation and rising warm air. The vertical air currents mean very little horizontal surface wind, a problem in sailing days. English sailing ships recorded the conditions and from their records George Hadley, in 1753, figured out his circulation cell (Figure 3). Clouds develop daily and result in heavy rainfall almost daily. Duitenzorg, Java, averages 322 days a year with thunderstorms.

The warm air rises to the tropopause where it is now cold, dense and dry. Deflected away from the Equator it descends. As it descends increasing pressure creates adiabatic warming. By the time it reaches the surface it is hot and dry. The amount of moisture is the same but chances of condensation and cloud formation is virtually zero. Average relative humidity for the Sahara is approximately 19%. Water vapour is the most important greenhouse gas and low levels in desert region mean the ground and air heat and cool very rapidly. Cloud cover in the Sahara varies from about 10% in winter to 4% in summer.

The highest shade temperatures in the world occur such as 58°C in Libya and 56.7°C in Death Valley, California. At In-Salah, Algeria, the temperature dropped from an afternoon high of 52.2°C to an overnight low of –3.3°C, a range of 55.5°C in about 12 hours. These conditions mean the air holds less water vapour, but the air temperature drops well below the dew point temeprature thus creating condensation.

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Figure 3. Hadley Cell circulation has air rising at the equator and descending between 15 and 30° latitude. A similar cell exists for the Southern Hemisphere.

Heated air at the equator creates low pressure, the Equatorial Low, while descending air creates high pressure in the subtropics, the Subtropical Highs.

The pattern of high rainfall at the Equator and deserts in the Low Latitudes is disturbed by the land/water distribution and influence of ocean currents. The greatest disturbance occurs in eastern Africa and Asia so the desert zone extends through Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan and western China. Low latitude landmass in the southern hemisphere is restricted but includes southern Africa, Australia and South America. In South America the Andes Mountains block the extension of the deserts across the entire continent. However, where they exist on the coast they are among the driest on earth.

Savory refers to the rock paintings of herd animals in the central Sahara. They occur there because of climate change when increased rainfall supported grasslands. During the last Ice Age the Polar climate zones expanded pushing the mid latitude temperate climates toward the Equator. Traditional climate referred to the wetter periods in the desert zones that were coincident with Glacials as Pluvials. When the Earth warmed to Interglacials, as now, the desert regions experience Interpluvials.

Swings between Pluvial and Interpluvial are macro climate changes, however smaller changes are occurring all the time. As a result, the pattern of climates shown in Figures 4 and 5 are averages and constantly changing.

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Figure 4: Koppen classification The Americas.

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Figure 5: Koppen classification Africa, Eurasia and Australia

The Sahel is shown as BSh or hot grassland right across Africa on the south side of the Sahara (BWh). In addition to the longer term climate changes, cyclical changes in precipitation cause drought cycles such as the one from 1968 to 1974. Australia is another large classic region of desert (BWh) surrounded by semi-arid grassland (BSh).

Importance of Condensation

Savory draws attention to the potential of condensation moisture in the semi arid areas. This is not new, as people for centuries have gathered condensation moisture. I grew up near the dry chalk lanscape of Salisbury Plain and learned early about “dew ponds”. Gilbert White, a renowned 18th century English naturalist, described the ecology around Selbourne. He described a dew pond near the village as “…only 3 feet deep and 30 feet in diameter, that contained some 15,000 gallons of water which supplied 300 sheep and cattle every day without fail.”

In many dry regions people put xerophytic plants close to large rocks, which provide sufficient overnight condensation to maintain the plant. On a larger scale, ancient Greeks built large pyramids of rock from which condensation trickled down to a network of clay collection pipes. Called air wells, they are a well known technique. There were 13 such pyramids up to 12 meters high near the ancient Greek city of Theodosia on the Black Sea.

Savory is correct, condensation is the forgotten moisture, as I described a few years ago and more recently repeated here. The issue was the difference between official predictions of poor yields and the actual average or better yields on the Canadian Prairies. In the late summer of that 1980s year, daytime temperatures were high, generally 27-28°C, which meant it could hold lots of moisture. At night, temperatures dropped to record lows around 3-5°C and moisture deposition was heavy. In a three-week period this yields upward of 50 mm of precipitation equivalent. Farmers know that amount of moisture can be critical to “fill out” a crop. It has several advantages over normal precipitation. It occurs at night when heat stress on the plant is reduced. Evaporation is reduced. Distribution is more even and widely distributed than rainfall. Unfortunately, it is not moisture counted in the weather statistics used by all the experts. Ironically, it’s moisture farmers know about because, until it evaporates, it can delay harvesting.”

Savory’s method can take advantage of the moisture, but it will only produce grasses in the natural grassland regions he defines. To change true desert (BWh) to grassland requires much larger volumes of water than condensation provides.

It is not clear how his proposal will stop climate change. Presumably, he assumes changing the surface will change the albedo, which will change the energy balance. The problem is there is not much difference in albedo between desert, which ranges from 15 to 45, and grassy fields with ranges10 to 30. The desert range is wide because deserts are only partially sand dunes. The dune areas known as Erg are higher albedo, but are a small percentage of a desert. The much larger, lower albedo, area is the hamada or rock strewn areas that are 70 percent of the Sahara.

Savory’s comment about the importance of microclimates is more critical than he realizes. Most vegetation, and certainly the grasses, grow in the 1.25 m below the Stevenson Screen, the official weather station. The climate below that level is markedly different, as Geiger identified in his marvelous 1950 book, The Climate Near the Ground. Any attempt at planning or changing conditions in this portion of the Biosphere requires far more information than is currently available.

Change is the norm. Climate change is normal and current changes are well within natural variability. Allan Savory’s proposal to stabilize grassland areas has some merit, but requires much more understanding and context, especially about climate patterns and climate change mechanisms. Of course, as the world cools in the next few decades the colder climate zone will expand and the desert zone will shrink naturally. The grasslands will benefit from cooler wetter conditions as the natural cycles continue.

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Editor
March 25, 2013 12:21 am

Tim, a very well-thought-out and interesting discussion of the issues.
I could only add that the GAEZ study has actually quantified the amount of grassland, as well as the area of hot and cold deserts.

Next, I agree with you that while changes in animal husbandry can help revegetate some areas, it’s only at the margins. You won’t change Saharan barchan dunes into pastures just by adding cows …
Having seen the destruction done by goats, on the other hand, I can testify that the reverse is true. You can change a forest into a desert …
Next, I greatly appreciated your reference to my personal climate bible, Geiger’s “The Climate Near The Ground”. Wonderful book from a time when people took measurements instead of using computer model estimates …
I also appreciated the nuance in your conclusion, viz:

Allan Savory’s proposal to stabilize grassland areas has some merit, but requires much more understanding and context, especially about climate patterns and climate change mechanisms.

Can’t say fairer than that …
w.

March 25, 2013 12:29 am

A much too polite destruction of the obvious myth.
Thanks for a voice of reason, anyway.

March 25, 2013 12:56 am

The way I read it, Allan Savory was more interested in returning what had been taken out, or perhpas in not taking out in the first place. Such as culling 40,000 elephants, then wondering why the area got poorer. Anywhere where people have tried to take charge of the land and “manage” it by removing what governments or scientists regarded at the time as “pests” generally backfires.
He has shown good results over more than a decade, so there’s plenty of merit. It’s certainly far better than what we currently have, which is people blaming everything on global warming.
As for “altering climate change” – natural or not, I didn’t get that it was about that at all. To me it was about letting desertification heal naturally. It was about greening the world by letting nature do its thing, and stopping unnatural desertification that is caused through humans thinking they can “control” an area by purging it of unwanted fauna. Not about climate. Not about true deserts. Not about change.
Perhaps it was a “Hey, if you think desertification is about climate change, it’s not, look at this” kind of message. That was my take on it, that he was trying to appeal to people who blamed CO2 or global warming, whatever it’s called this week.
People try to control the environment. I sure understand that when it comes to cities and farmland and our own slice of heaven in the bush (forest – sorry, I’m Australian), but when it comes to playing God over National Forests or Parks, or any sort of wilderness ecosystem, we always stuff up. Removing fauna in order to “protect” the land is one such stuff up that results in desertification in certain areas. Putting the the fauna back again solves the problem and we get better crops and lots of meat to eat. That’s what I got out of it. Win, win, win. 🙂
Just my two cents worth.

Ben D.
March 25, 2013 12:57 am

Great post. thank you.

BioBob
March 25, 2013 1:02 am

Savory also fails to consider how ecosystems build carrying capacity / standing crop to some optimum for any particular set of conditions and that carrying capacity is anything but stable in a changing environment. This is why we have natural boom and bust population cycles in temperate and edge “zones” but generally do not find comparable behaviors in “more stable” tropical rain forests.

Geoff C
March 25, 2013 1:04 am

Savory’s practices (not so much theories) work well in marginal grassland.
Quote
Someone should tell the judges of all the ‘farmer of the year’ awards that Science disagrees with their choices: it has proved many times that grazing management is no better than continuous or set stocking. Nearly every time a grazier has won or been runner up in annual awards since 2007 they have nominated cell or rotational grazing management as a centerpiece of their farm plan. Yet science has been unable to confirm that they are making a difference to the health of their pastures, their animals and their landscapes.
End Quote
Read the rest at
http://www.carbonfarmersofaustralia.com.au/_blog/Carbon_Farmers_Of_Australia_Blog/post/Grazing_Systems_don%E2%80%99t_work_Tell_the_Farmer_of_the_Year_/

tty
March 25, 2013 1:07 am

“Traditional climate referred to the wetter periods in the desert zones that were coincident with Glacials as Pluvials. When the Earth warmed to Interglacials, as now, the desert regions experience Interpluvials.”
This is completely wrong and an obsolete terminology. Actually deserts grow during glaciations and shrink during interglacials. During the previous (warmer) interglacial Sahara virtually disappeared while during the last glaciation it almost reached to the Guinea Gulf. That was also when e. g. the Nebraska Sandhills was an actual desert.

ckb
Editor
March 25, 2013 1:34 am

I took the following main point away from Savory’s talk:
– In places where rainfall is sufficient to have grasslands where we currently have desert-like conditions, we can undo this process by using livestock to mimic the times when animal herds roamed wild.
So while I appreciate that Dr. Ball believes Savory’s claims about the larger picture may be overstated (any that’s no surprise in the climate arena at all), using Savory’s methods to bring back grasslands where they can be supported is better than letting the deserts grow. I can’t see how desert is ever better than grassland in places where rain falls in sufficient quantity for grasslands.
I think also unvoiced in Savory’s presentation is something that was barely mentioned – “no till” techniques to work land for food. I assumed this includes raising livestock on land. We greatly underappreciate the amount of CO2 tilling the soil adds to the air, so being that Savory is a guy that wants to reduce CO2 emissions, it seemed to me he saw this a big benefit to expanding the lands that can be used to raise livestock.

pat
March 25, 2013 1:39 am

thanx for the critique. adds to the debate. no-one has all the solutions:
25 March: SMH: Bosch dumps solar business as losses mount
German engineering company Bosch said it is abandoning its solar energy business, because there is no way to make it economically viable amid overcapacity and huge price pressure in the industry.
The solar power industry has been hit by falling subsidies, weaker sales and increasingly stiff price competition, especially from Chinese manufacturers. Robert Bosch GmbH’s move, announced at the end of last week, came after German industrial conglomerate Siemens announced last October that it would give up its loss-taking solar business.
Bosch said that it will stop making products such as solar cells, wafers and modules at the beginning of next year. It will sell a plant in Venissieux, France, and is abandoning a plan to build a new plant in Malaysia.
The solar energy division, which employs about 3,000 people, lost around €1-billion ($1.25 billion) last year…
http://www.smh.com.au/business/carbon-economy/bosch-dumps-solar-business-as-losses-mount-20130325-2gpo4.html

March 25, 2013 1:47 am

Why is the Huffington Post posting and article on Solar activity?
Are they all of a sudden becoming aware?
Sun’s Activity To Peak With ‘Solar Maximum’ In 2013, Scientists Say
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/24/sun-activity-peak-solar-maximum_n_2942099.html

thunderloon
March 25, 2013 2:00 am

Animal urine, feces and crushing all kill bermudagrass. It freezes off in the winter for several months and allows the growth of random weeds and it doesn’t have low moisture survival characteristics. The reason is survives in the warm tropics is because it ALWAYS has a source of moisture and can survive off of low saline mist.
Potatoes are a better option.

Gail Combs
March 25, 2013 2:05 am

I agree with Willis. You can only change the ‘deserts’ around the margins and over grazing can be very destructive.
As far as Bermuda Grass goes I had a bit of experience with Common Bermuda (viable seed) during the 2007 drought in NC. Yes my Bermuda and native grass pastures survived the drought while the cow pasture of Kentucky 31 Fescue across the street died deader than a door nail and had to be replanted. However the grass did not GROW. Bermuda survives drought by going dormant.
May 2007 was very dry, 2.07 inches vs the normal May rainfall of 4.42 inches.

The drought intensified quickly in June 2007 when D2 or Severe Drought was introduced USDM – June 5) into far northwest North Carolina across portions of Ashe and Watauga counties. Although the drought was confined to this extreme southwest corner of the Blacksburg HSA through much of mid-summer it expanded considerably during the very dry August of 2007. That month HSA average rainfall was only 1.63 inches with many stations recording less than 1 inch of rainfall. To make matters worse August 2007 was one of the hottest months ever recorded in this region…
http://www.erh.noaa.gov/rnk/Newsletter/Spring_2009/drought/drought_07_09.html

In my area what thunderstorms there were that summer missed us that year. It was very frustrating watching a storm heading straight for my farm and either head north as it came close or disappear altogether.
Despite that we had cooler weather and a lot more rain that year than you get in a desert or even Texas. You are just not going to get growth without rain. That is why an Easterner figures one cowl per two acres and Texans figure one cow per couple of square miles.

March 25, 2013 2:16 am

All the major deserts are a result of consistent climatic patterns, the more consistent the less variation. That’s why the Sahara, despite its size is more variable than the Atacama.
Apart from the climate, only techtonic shifts cause minor deserts, a good example being the Okavango river which formerly fed the Makgadikgadi pan.
To say that all previous civilizations ended because of climate change should have started the alarm bells ringing. Savory makes leaps of logic throughout his presentation, I like that he thinks out of the box, but wow – too much.

Lewis P Buckingham
March 25, 2013 2:23 am

Its a good idea to remove feral pests in marginal grazing land dotted with small bushes.
On one place I worked in the Western division of NSW Australia, a plague of rabbits ringbarked all the bushes that provided cover for stock and native animals and the area reverted to grassland and dust bowl in drought under grazing pressure of cattle and sheep.
Where scientists and governments urge control of rabbits, camels and off the subject, feral cats, I’m all in favour.

steveta_uk
March 25, 2013 2:25 am

The problem is expansion of the food supply usually creates an increase in the human population, which Savory says is at the heart of the world’s problems.

Did I read this right? To paraphrase, is Dr Ball saying that the problem with Savory’s solution is that less people die of starvation?

garymount
March 25, 2013 2:40 am

I have a 1969 book on deserts titled ‘The Great Deserts’ that I have had since a child that sparked a lifetime interest in deserts. Here is a quote from the book :
– – –
But a word of warning comes from the great American, Starker Leopold, who has observed:
“Many of the deep wells being drilled today in deserts around the world are tapping water than can never be replaced. In parts of Baja California, and Sonora, short-term farming projects are being undertaken in the most unpromising creosote-bush desert, based on wells with a probable life span of only ten to fifteen years.”
– – –
So how did that go? 1979 to 1984 was his prediction for the wells life span.

March 25, 2013 2:47 am

Elrich was totally wrong but there could be a point of overpopulation. I believe I’ve heard that 60% of the photosynthesis on earth goes to humans eventually. I doubt extremely that we are anywhere near a truly serious point of overpopulation and the same false assumptions about the technologies of today and the populations of tomorrow are certainly being made but being wrong in the 70’s is not a guarantee of being wrong today. (Unless you’re worried about catastrophic human caused climate shifts of course…)
As well, in terms of hurting our own long term situation we may be nowhere in sight of overpopulation but it does seem like we are well into the territory of pushing out other species at a fair rate. That can be considered a worthy concern, for various reasons, if not one requiring draconian measures.

March 25, 2013 3:21 am

This is an interesting discussion. Essentially, it comes down to whether the Hadley circulation necessarily causes true desert at one end, or there could just as well (in the same phase of, let’s say, an interglacial) be grassland. The ease at which grassland can flip to desert and vice versa (and the big seasonal changes in grassland every year) suggest that it may not be just top-down “global circulation” controlled how much actually grows there, but also bottom-up “vegetation, grazing/predation, microclimate” controlled as Savory claims. You can think that this is only relevant to desert margins, but that is just where we see the change happen; it does not mean that there should be real desert at all (since margins can shift). So where is the limit?

johnmarshall
March 25, 2013 3:21 am

Excellent as Usual Dr Ball.
I do take issue with one statement at the beginning though:- More food means more humans. Not strictly true. Africa has a growing population due to a very high birth rate, though also a high child mortality rate, and poor food supply. The West has surplus food available and a small, stable birth rate. African birth rate is tied to child mortality rate, women want at least a couple of children to survive to adulthood, So to increase development, health care, food availability etc. to reduce child mortality rate will decrease the birth rate and population will level off.

johanna
March 25, 2013 3:23 am

Savory is a mishmash of other people’s ideas, outright misrepresentation, a few good thoughts and CO2 nonsense. As Tim points out, he fudges the distinction, and the borders, between shifting marginal grasslands and true desert.
‘Reclaiming the desert’ is one of those cries that appeals to very primitive instincts. Many current deserts were once fertile or under water.
There is plenty of arable land for growing crops and raising livestock in the current configuration. While extending the margins a bit or reversing the results of overgrazing is probably worth doing, it is a distraction from the causes of poverty in parts of Africa and Asia. Political instability and corruption, do-gooding NGOs who want them to stay ‘close to Nature’ and lack of basic infrastructure have a lot more to do with it.
Thanks, Tim. The would-be Messiahs like Savory have never contributed anything to the massive changes that have lifted hundreds of millions out of subsistence poverty in the last 30 years. They are marginal operators selling snake-oil.

March 25, 2013 3:33 am

“It is not clear how his proposal will stop climate change. Presumably, he assumes changing the surface will change the albedo, which will change the energy balance.”
The soil of graslands bind a lot of carbon and thus remove CO2 from the atmosphere. If I understand the video in the previous post right, that is the main reason why Savory thinks that turning desert into graslands will help with climate change.

J Broadbent
March 25, 2013 3:39 am

I loved John Daly’s book “Still waiting for Greenhouse” where he politely and gently reasoned why the Hadley Cells caused desertification at certain latitudes. In my opinion, John was a gentleman and a wise man of our tribe. Savory on the other hand worried me as my experience suggests the best of the con-men generally lead with a confession of guilt. 40,000 elephants is by any measure a heavy cross for one man to bear!

John Niclasen
March 25, 2013 4:03 am

1. If people keep doing the wrong things, don’t understand, and cause desertification by killing natural herds and not making up for it making the Earth suffer, then yes, the world is overpopulated.
2. The regions, where we see desertification, is at the edges of the natural deserts. The amount of natural deserts is more or less in balance, because the global climate hasn’t changed much the last couple thousands years (compared to earlier changes). So yes, I’ll say, Savory is more or less correct, when he claims, there is no other cause than human for the desertification, we’re experiencing now. “Desertification” means going from not being a desert into becoming a desert. Forget the deserts, that are already there from nature. That’s not what Savory is talking about, as I understand him.
3. A savanna has savanna climate. A desert has desert climate. Maybe Savory by “changing climate” means changes in the local climate, when grasslands become deserts? Have you thought about that? We’re mostly used today to think about climate change as global climate change. Think locally, when trying to understand Savory.
About deserts and the explanation giving by Tim Ball here, it is not the full picture! Sahara was formed some 3 million years ago. See work by Peter B. deMenocal:
http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/~peter/site/Home.html
The Hadley Cell is part of the explanation, but not the full.
You need to take a big step back to understand deserts. Like a 100 million year step back. Back then there were no deserts (the oldest desert is the Namib desert formed 80 mio years ago or so). And the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere was a lot higher than today. It’s not water, that is the primary problem, it is the amount of carbon. Life is based on carbon.
Hint: Try calculate the mass of all the carbon bound in life on Earth. Then calculate the mass of carbon bound in CO2 in the atmosphere and compare.
Tim Ball, you understand many things, and I find your texts and talks very interesting, but you’re not quite right on this one.

Stephen Wilde
March 25, 2013 4:07 am

“During the last Ice Age the Polar climate zones expanded pushing the mid latitude temperate climates toward the Equator. ”
Correct.
That expansion and contraction of the Polar climate zones happens to a lesser degree all the time even during Interglacials as a response to changes in the mix of particles and wavelengths from the sun and that mix varies with the level of solar activity.
The effects are heavily modulated by the thermal inertia of the oceans and all significant climate change is a consequence of that interplay between sun and oceans.
Any effect from GHGs being vanishingly small.
What everone seems to have missed is that the latitudinal shifting is a negative system response which always adjusts the speed of the energy flow through the system so that top of atmosphere radiative balance is maintained over time.
Deserts are natural, inevitable and constantly moving to and fro between equator and poles.

Felflames
March 25, 2013 4:10 am

One of the things I enjoy about this website is the ability of people with different views being able to post.
And the way people discuss said posts in a (mostly) rational manner.
I had the good fortune in my high school days to have a physics teacher who had a sound grasp of the scientific method, and its’ application.
“If it is colourful , it’s chemistry. ”
“If it moves , it is biology. ”
“And if it doesn’t work , it’s physics.”
We all had a good laugh, but it was true in that our understanding was limited at best, and science was a tool , when properly used, to increase that understanding.
The other thing he taught us was “Never assume I am telling you the truth. Anything I say might be wrong. Always check and recheck , then check it again. ”
Following that principle in all things can still lead to mistakes, but the solution is the same.
Check the information. Correct it if it is wrong. Check it again.
Something else I have long since learned.
Never be afraid to admit when you do make mistakes. Once you admit there was an error, you are already half way to fixing it. This is something I have tried to pass on, and it makes life so much easier on everyone. Everyone makes mistakes, it is what you do about them that is important.

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