Edmonton Canada bests March 10th record low by -12 degrees, columnist questions climate situation

UPDATE: The author’s (Lorne Gunter) claim of breaking the all time March record by -12 degrees is only partially correct. The phrase “smashing the previous March low” should have read “smashing the previous March 10th low”. Mr. Gunter erred in his statement.

The official all time March record Tmin occurred in 2003 and was -42.2°C details here from Environment Canada  (Thanks to reader K Stricker for the link).

UPDATE#2: 3/18 I’ve sent off a note to Mr. Gunter on the error in the article, and I’m hoping that he will post a correction to the wording in his article below. I have not yet heard back from him and I’m trying an alternate contact route via another person known to have corresponded with him. Gunter’s mistake is that he claims a new low temperature record for the entire Month of March, when it is only for a single day, March 10th. While I can’t correct the text in Mr. Gunter’s article until he makes a correction himself (since I won’t modify another authors words) reader should take note that the claims made in the article are not supported by the actual data. While I agree that “global warming” has indeed stalled in the last few years, the claim of the all time March low for Edmonton is incorrect.  – Anthony

http://www.pulsefurnituredesign.com/images/logo_edm_journal.jpg

Global warming’s no longer happening

So why are eco types moaning about record highs while ignoring record lows?

By Lorne Gunter, The Edmonton Journal

So far this month, at least 14 major weather stations in Alberta have recorded their lowest-ever March temperatures. I’m not talking about daily records; I mean they’ve recorded the lowest temperatures they’ve ever seen in the entire month of March since temperatures began being recorded in Alberta in the 1880s.

This past Tuesday, Edmonton International Airport reported an overnight low of -41.5 C, smashing the previous March low of -29.4 C set in 1975. Records just don’t fall by that much, but the airport’s did. Records are usually broken fractions of degrees. The International’s was exceeded by 12 degrees.

To give you an example of how huge is the difference between the old record and the new, if Edmonton were to exceed its highest-ever summer temperature by the same amount, the high here some July day would have to reach 50 C. That’s a Saudi Arabia-like temperature.

Also on the same day, Lloydminster hit -35.2 C, breaking its old March record of -29.2 C. Fort McMurray — where they know cold — broke a record set in 1950 with a reading of -39.9C. And Cold Lake, Slave Lake, Whitecourt, Peace River, High Level, Jasper and Banff, and a handful of other communities obliterated old cold values, most from the 1950s or 1970s, two of the coldest decades on record in the province.

This has been an especially cold winter across the country, with values returning to levels not often seen since the 1970s, which was an especially brutal decade of winters.

Temperatures began to plummet on the Prairies in December. The cold weather did not hit much of the rest of the country until January, but when it hit, it hit hard. Even against Canada’s normally frigid January standards, “this particular cold snap is noteworthy,” Environment Canada meteorologist Geoff Coulson said this past January. Many regions across the country had not been as cold for 30 years or more, he added.

Does this prove fear of global warming is misplaced? On its own, probably not. But if records were being broken the other way — if several Alberta centres had recorded their warmest-ever March values — you can bet there would be no end of hand-wringing, horror stories about how we were on the precipice of an ecological disaster of unprecedented proportions.

Environmentalists, scientists who advance the warming theory, politicians and reporters never shy away from hyping those weather stories that support their beliefs. But they tend to ignore or explain away stories that might cast doubt.

In 2005, the summer and fall of hurricanes Katrina and Rita, when several major ‘canes pummelled North and Central America, we were told again and again that this was proof warming was happening and it was going to be bad. Al Gore has emissions from industrial smokestacks swirling up into a satellite image of a hurricane on the DVD box for his propaganda film An Inconvenient Truth to underline the point that more and eviller hurricanes will be the result of CO2 output.

But since 2005, only one major hurricane — this year’s Ike — has struck North America. And now comes a study from Florida State University researcher Ryan Maue, that shows worldwide cyclonic activity — typhoons, as well as hurricanes — has reached a 30-year low (tinyurl.com/bunynz).

Indeed, the hiatus may go back more than 30 years because it is difficult to compare records before about 1970 with those since, since measurements four or more decades ago were not as precise or thorough. Current low activity may actually be the lowest in 50 years or more.

If Maue had proven hurricane activity were at a 30-year high, of course his findings would have been reported far and wide. But since he is challenging the dogma of the Holy Mother Church of Climate Change, his research is ignored.

For at least the past five or six years, global temperatures have been falling. Look at the black trend line on the chart at http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/ put out by the man who runs NASA’s worldwide network of weather satellites.

Also, in the past few months, two studies — one by the Leibniz Institute of Marine Science and the Max Planck Institute of Meteorology in Germany and another by the University of Wisconsin — have shown a slowing, or even a reversal of warming for at least the next 10 to 20, and perhaps longer.

Even the Arctic sea ice, which has replaced hurricanes as the alarm of the moment ever since hurricanes ceased to threaten, has grown this winter to an extent not seen since around 1980.

Global warming is not only no longer happening, it is not likely to resume until 2025 or later, if then. So why are we continuing to hear so much doomsaying about climate change?

There are a lot of people in every age who think they know better than everyone else and, therefore, have a right to tell everyone how to live. In the 1950s, it was country-club and parish council busybodies with their strict moral codes. In the 1970s, it was social democrats with their fanciful economic theories. Today, it’s environmentalists.

Same instinct, different wrapper.

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205 thoughts on “Edmonton Canada bests March 10th record low by -12 degrees, columnist questions climate situation

  1. Don’t you get it? Global warming causes everything that happens. It’s why my garbage can was blown over today.

  2. Global warming is not only no longer happening, it is not likely to resume until 2025 or later, if then. So why are we continuing to hear so much doomsaying about climate change?

    [1] Expectation of dominion over other human beings – Lust for Power.

    [2] Expectation of continued funding for AGW “Science” – Addiction to the AGW Gravy Train.

    [3] Validation of long held beliefs in the face of contrary evidence – Cognitive Dissonance is Painful.

    [4] Because – otherwise they would have to admit being wrong, duped and lied too – Avoidance of Public Shame.

    [5] Expectation of “Green” profits from taxpayer funded Government subsidies – Ruthless Greed.

    [6] It’s too much fun to stop – Psychopathic Fantasy Wish Fulfillment.

    [7] What else would I write? – News Reporter Deadline Anxiety and Fear of Writer’s Block.

    [8] Because I would no longer be “Saving the Planet from Evil Humans”. – Self Righteous need for Validation of Personal Meaning in the face of a Meaningless Universe.

    [9] Addiction to flying Business Class to International Conferences in Bali, Copenhagen, etc… – Addiction to Free Lunches

    Plus some others that I haven’t thought of yet…

  3. …Meanwhile, on the other side of the world, in Victoria, Australia, we had “black friday” this February which shot us into the hottest day we’ve ever had, and due to the terrible dry, as it almost never rains here anymore, we had the worst fires and deaths imaginable. The temperature reached 46 celcius or 115 farenheit. Remember that the world doesn’t end at the US border.

    Wolfie!

    REPLY: The story was about Edmonton, Canada, well beyond the US border. – Anthony

  4. Yes, this March in Alberta has been more like a January. That same night we got to -27C, which is stupidly cold. We have piles of snow around several feet deep, which is EXTREMELY unusual for Calgary in March. Usually it melts through the winter due to chinooks.

    I’m not going to say this has been the worst winter in memory for this area, that still goes to 95-96 by my reckoning. But once the cold hit it was here with a vengeance. From December 13 until still we’ve had significant snow on the ground, which IS unusual. Our side roads are still rutted ice nightmares, and the slightest warmth during the day gets just enough melted that the main roads are like a sea of mud. It’s impossible to keep the car clean.

    This is all good, though, it DOES make it very difficult for people to believe that warming is a problem.

  5. We really need to see the global temps in the HadCRUT, UAH, RSS, and even GISS data sets show a dramatic cooling, otherwise these cold weather event will not get significant traction. A diversion with the GISS data set running anomalously warm against the others cooling would have a particularly strong impact on the debate by raising important questions about Hansen’s work.

  6. Hundreds of billions have been already wasted trying to fight global warming.

    The recent warming trend that Earth has experienced is largely natural, as is the new cooling trend that could last up to ~30 years.

    There are sad consequences of this huge misallocation of scarce global resources to fight a myth – catastrophic humanmade global warming simply does not exist.

    What used to exist were about twenty million children age 5 and less, who died in recent decades due to lack of clean drinking water. For no more money than was wasted on the phony war against global warming, clean drinking water and sanitation facilities could have been installed and millions of kids saved.

    That is just one cost of badly misplaced priorities.

    Regards, Allan

  7. There is another piece of information, not mentioned by Mr Gunter, but likely of interest to many readers of this blog.

    But first a side comment off topic. I was sitting in an aircraft, trying to leave Edmonton International, at the exact time the -43C reading occurred. The pilots wanted de-icing fluid on the aircraft. First they explained it was taking a long time because the de-icing truck on the port side had frozen up. Then they said it was taking a longer time because the truck on the starboard side had frozen up. Kind of like that old joke “I hope that last engine doesn’t quit, or we will be up here forever …”.

    The interesting data point? Record lows all around Edmonton. -43C at Edmonton International. Low temp that day (or two days, given the 6 a.m. definition of the start of a day at Edmonton City Centre Airport? -33C.

    Cheers – I went to Winnipeg.

  8. reply to Wolfie Rankin (22:22:10) :

    …Meanwhile, on the other side of the world, in Victoria, Australia, we had “black friday” this February which shot us into the hottest day we’ve ever had, and due to the terrible dry, as it almost never rains here anymore, we had the worst fires and deaths imaginable. The temperature reached 46 celcius or 115 farenheit. Remember that the world doesn’t end at the US border.

    Gunter’s point, Wolfie, is we all heard about the record heat in Oz – it was splashed all over the world’s newspapers, even before your tragic fires.

    But nobody told the world about breaking record cold temperatures by 12 degrees C in freezing Alberta.

    Record heat is news, record cold is not.

    Such is the dominance of warmist nonsense propaganda in global media.

  9. Wolfie

    the melbourne data came from this weather station in the middle of one of the busiest street in australia.

    http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?hl=en&q=melbourne%20la%20trobe%202&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

    with a well documented urban heat island:

    http://mclean.ch/climate/Melbourne_UHI.htm

    neither january nor february were particularly warm averaged over all australia

    http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/silo/temp_maps.cgi?variable=maxanom&area=nat&period=month&time=history&steps=1

    http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/silo/temp_maps.cgi?variable=maxanom&area=nat&period=month&time=latest

    …so this was just weather

    … combined with the deadly green politics of not clearing bushes and forests.

    breaking the records by small amounts is not really remarkable, it happens every day somewhere.

    and after 30 years, ocean currents around australia are now in their cold mode

    http://mclean.ch/climate/docs/Aust_temps_alt_view.pdf

  10. I guess all that money spent trying to correct AGW so far is having an effect; or so their propaganda will claim. Just how cold do they want it to get before they will be happy?

  11. The US administration has now re-activated its campaign machine in order to help pass its new budget. This budget relies on Cap & Trade raising over $600 Billion to fund the president’s new programs.

    The Obama machine was very successful last year and may again be able to mobilize for this issue. It is likely the last chance that AGW legislation will have if we are in for 20-30 years of cooling, but it is not yet too late.

    Once passed, it may take a generation to remove and by then, who knows, we could be back to another warming spell.

  12. “…Meanwhile, on the other side of the world, in Victoria, Australia, we had “black friday” this February which shot us into the hottest day we’ve ever had, and due to the terrible dry, as it almost never rains here anymore, we had the worst fires and deaths imaginable. The temperature reached 46 celcius or 115 farenheit. Remember that the world doesn’t end at the US border.

    Wolfie!”

    And then there’s the truth…

    “Melbourne reached 46.4 degrees on Saturday, the highest in 154 years of record-keeping, overshooting the previous high set on Black Friday – January 13, 1939 – by 0.8 degrees and far exceeding the temperature on Ash Wednesday in 1983, which was 43.2 degrees.”

    To me, 154 years of record keeping isn’t an indication of not *ever* happening before.

    And…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oodnadatta,_South_Australia

    Cheers.

  13. But, Wolfie, it’s a dry heat.

    Also note that your location is significantly closer (47 deg S) to the Equator than Alberta (51 deg north). I’ll also note that Melbourne never has winter temperatures anywhere close to those normal for Alberta (http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Melbourne-shivers-on-coldest-day-of-year/2007/06/14/1181414415719.html) yet still had a record low in 2007…. Melbourne also rarely even has snowfall.

    So, for Melbournes temps to match in warming what Alberta saw in cooling, you folks would need to have a summer high of 65 C.

  14. Is the breaking of a month-long temperature record by 12 degrees C setting off any cautionary warning bells in anyone else’s head? As the author says himself: “Records just don’t fall by that much…” I guess we have anecdotal evidence in this thread from Bruce, but could it be possible there’s some explanation for the extremity of the record in the weather station hardware or some other kind of error? Bruce says other there were record lows at other nearby stations, but were they by at all the same the magnitude?

    Cheers,
    K

  15. Just reporting in from Edmonton, it’s snowing again right now. If you like Anthony I can email you some pictures, but to be honest I haven’t seen this much snow since I was a little kid in the 70’s.

  16. Thank goodness I said ‘No!’ in the 60s when I was invited to emigrate to Canada!

    Waaaarrrrmmmm down under, oooooo comfy!

    On the other hand if it hadn’t been for the UHI the temps could have been cooler and maybe more records could have fallen 8-)

  17. Wolfie,

    I also live in OZ and I’m always interested in hearing the record extreme stories from all parts of the globe. The world is a balanced ecosystem and the record cold from Alberta could be seen as balanced with record heat from down here.

    Interestingly,
    The February UAH temperatures show a near normal anomoly (from the 30 year average) for the Souther Hemisphere. Sydney had a normal February average of 26 degrees and Hobart was slightly below average with 21.1 deg. Melbourne, located in the middle had an average maximum of 28.1 deg. which is 2.3 degrees above the 30 year average of 25.1. The current average March max. temp in Melbourne is 23.4 deg, -0.4 below average.

    Last August was Sydney’s coldest in 40 years. I was forced to dig out the GORE-tex jacket… !

  18. Meanwhile, on the other side of the world, in Victoria, Australia, … due to the terrible dry, as it almost never rains here anymore

    Rubbish! More than 80% of Australia has had average to above average rainfall over the last 12 months.

    http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/silo/rain_maps.cgi?map=contours&variable=anomaly&area=aus&period=12month&region=aus&time=latest

    The only area that is well below average is in the far south east of Australia, which is a fairly wet area with annual rainfall around 1,000 mm. Which means it rains more there than say London England.

    To say’ ‘almost never rains here’ is ridiculous. I happen to know most of Victoria had torrential rain a couple of days ago.

  19. Mr Wolfie. As a long time resident of Brisbane, I wish it was true’… almost never rains here anymore’. I have much better things to do this summer than cut my long grass every two weeks due to this’..almost never rains here anymore’ coming every few days.By the way, I am Typing this quickly before the huge lightning storm knocks out the electricity. Funny how our local dams are now over 42% from 19% last year.

  20. There’s a typo in the lead-in news story. There should be “years” at the end of “for at least the next 10 to 20,”

  21. Wolfie

    you need to get out and about a bit more, i.e. read a bit more than main stream media dribble. Then again according to you perhaps that is the only way you can get any moisture in your neck of the bush.

    Try this link from William Kininmonth, former head of Australia’s national Climate Centre.

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/anatomy-of-a-firestorm-20090225-8hvi.html?page=-1

    Here is an excerpt:

    It is fashionable to promote climate change as being a contributor to changing fire frequency and intensity. The pattern of rainfall over the past century does not point to a trend of reduction in rainfall. Nor has any link been offered between global temperature trends and the meteorology of Victorian heatwaves. Extreme bushfire events are rare events and must be analysed according to the statistics relating to rare events; the breaking of a previous temperature record established 70 years earlier does not establish an underlying trend.

    You were saying?

  22. Interesting the comments about canada having had snow on the ground since December.

    Very similar things could be written about parts of Switzerland. This season I’ve been looking at the webcam for Wengen (www.wengen.com will have a copy) and the classic glaciated Lauterbrunnen valley a lot as I ski there and the observations are strikingly different to previous years.

    Lauterbrunnen is an interesting point to study as it is:
    i. Relatively low.
    ii. In a very steep sided U-shaped valley.
    iii. Lacking in direct sunlight in deep winter due to 4000m peaks blocking out the sun.

    As a result, if it snows early and it remains cold, the snow stays a long time. If it gets warm the snow melts relatively rapidly.

    This year, the snow is still there in mid March after arriving in early December. That hasn’t happened since 1990 when I first went there. It may just have got close to melting due to a hot weekend…..

    It’s just one year.

    But the signs are that ‘traditional’ winters may be coming back. Heavy, early snowfall and more traditional coldness.

    This will necessitate a comparison between the last ‘traditional’ spell and this one. The ‘warm’ spell should be compared with past or future ‘warm’ spells.

    That will give us better indications of trends, me thinks…..

  23. Mike Lorrey

    It is even worse than you thought. Melbourne is at 37 degrees South, not 47! 47 degrees south is the bottom of the South Island of New Zealand, and central Patagonia in South America, but not much else.

    We New Zealanders don’t know what real cold is either. Our minimum of -21.3 C occurred in 1991 in the South Island, while Rangiora near Christchurch, also in the S.I., holds the top mark of +42.3 C on Feb 7th, 1973. A third of century and no hotter!!!

  24. One of the problems in seeking a rational debate about complex matters is that they are trivialised by labels. The overall effect of ‘global warming’, the reason for its simplistic name, is an observed overall increase in the world’s average temperature. A simple cold snap in one area does not invalidate the argument that climates are changing, and generally becoming warmer.

    The simple and undeniable fact that the world’s average temperature is increasing does not rule out the possibility of a reverse in local situations. For example, at any time now, a giant ocean current that starts in the Bering Straits might stop, because warming around the strait betweren Alaska and Siberia has reduced the amount of sea ice formed. The current is kicked off by cold brine, descending into the ocean at the top of the Pacific as freshwater ice forms on the surface.

    This current, known as ‘The Conveyor’, runs down, around Cape Horn and up into the Atlantic, and it drives the Gulf Stream. If the Gulf Stream stops, a large part of north-western Europe could be subject to sea ice and even be frozen in, each winter, because of global warming. I say it again: global warming can cause places to freeze over that have not frozen in historic times.

    It hasn’t happened yet. At the same time, it looks as though southern Australia could become more drought-prone, even as northern parts get higher rainfall in the next half-century. There will be floods in the south, maybe even droughts in the north, but the overall effect will be soggy tropics and dry temperate regions.

    Weather patterns settle into sort-of stable forms, but if you kick the weather, jolt the weather from its track, don’t expect it to bounce back when you stop kicking. It will be on a new track.

    The seas are getting warmer, they are getting more saturated in CO2 and so more acidic, we are approaching a situation where calcium carbonate exoskeletons (shells) are less and less able to stay solid. That means we may see the breakdown and collapse of Australia’s Great Barrier Reef. If that happens, much of Australia’s north-east coast will be battered by ocean waves generated by the cyclones (the equivalent of hurricanes) that are expected to increase in numbers and size.

    There has been no sea ice between the island of Saaremaa and the Estonian coast in 15 years, the most recent northern winter was the first time in 15 years that the canals of Amsterdam froze over. If ‘The Conveyor’ stops, because of global warming, the moose of Saaremaa will be able to spread all over Europe.

    Predicting the actual results is close to impossible, so saying “oh this prediction didn’t happen in Double-Dubuque last Tuesday” is not an argument. It is cherry-picking the data to come up with a scenario that suits one’s share portfolio or political weltanschauung (take that as ‘word view’ if you wish). It is a facile and simplistic failed attempt at obfuscation by somebody who knows squat.

    Weather patterns are changing and climate is changing, all over the world. All we can really say in the way of prediction is that the vast majority of the foreseeable futures look very, very nasty, and no amount of waffle will change that.

    Face it: just because you watch the Weather Channel, that doesn’t mean you’re a meteorologist. I’m not an expert either, but I pay attention to what the research says, as opposed to what the self-seeking grand-standers say.

  25. Wolfie!

    “…Meanwhile, on the other side of the world, in Victoria, Australia, we had “black friday” this February which shot us into the hottest day we’ve ever had, and due to the terrible dry, as it almost never rains here anymore, we had the worst fires and deaths imaginable. The temperature reached 46 celcius or 115 farenheit. Remember that the world doesn’t end at the US border. …”

    First, it was “Black Saturday” not “black Friday”…:)

    And second… there’s a painting in the State Library of Victoria called “Black Thursday”

    http://www.chig.asn.au/black_thursday_bushfires_1851.htm

    I acknowledge that “official” records don’t extend as far back as 1851, however, the conditions then were as bad if not worse than on Black Saturday. In the following piece – which extracts newspaper clippings from that time – it is suggested that temperatures reached 117 Fahrenheit in the shade, and 129F in the open… (10Mb pdf)

    http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/artpam/0/3/8/pdf/ar0380.pdf

    I quote:
    “At 12 o’clock the thermometer of Fahrenheit was 110 in the shade, and 129 in the sun at the shop of Brentani, a jeweller in Collins-Street; at 11 o’clock at another place it was 117 in the shade; at 1 fell to 109; but at 4pm went to 113.” (p13-14)

    There has been debate on some sites as to whether this temp is valid, as it seemed to drop from this high at 11am and climbed again later in the afternoon. To forestall this, it must be remembered that the albedo of the smoke and ashes in the sky which were so thick that:
    “This darkness, according to the accounts which we have received of it, began to be perceived about one o’clock in the afternoon, and gradually increased until it became so intense as to hide from sight even the nearest objects” (p18)

    And some other accounts:

    http://home.iprimus.com.au/foo7/fire1851.html

    Whether Black Saturday was worse that Black Thursday will remain a matter of conjecture – however, the conditions were about equivalent but happened 150 years ago in a climate not subject to GHG warming. The Edmonton -ve departure happened in a climate subject to GHG warming, and thus is oh so much more noteworthy.

    cheers

    Arnost

  26. Re: Graeme Rodaughan (22:15:40) :

    Well said – strongly agree with your bullet points.

    Breaking the previous record by this much is damn impressive – particularly for somewhere that is normally so c…o…l…d this time of year. Is it just me, or has the past Winter seen many such anomalous events? From the cold in Alaska late Fall ’08 to the white Canadian Christmas, the record cold in the northern U.S., the Great Lakes frozen, ships stuck in ice near Newfoundland, anomalous cold in Europe and even Northeast Asia.

    In isolation, each of these events could be called weather, but in unison I think you have to call it a “ehhmmm” Climate Change? Now lets take a look at the possible causes – CO2? well that has continued to rise steadily as it has done since the early 1900’s, meanwhile the Sun is anomalously quiet, the PDO has switched into a negative Phase when we also have La Nina in the Pacific and the AMO in the Atlantic has switched negative.

    But no, it must be the CO2.

    Please…

  27. “Efforts to stabilise carbon dioxide and temperature are no better than planetary alternative medicine,” he wrote.

    It is perhaps telling that more than a dozen scientists interviewed could only say that they hoped Lovelock was wrong.

    None could say – based on the science – that they knew he was wrong.

    I have a suggestion for those scientists: Instead of blowing money going to a hellish nightmare of a convention discussing Earth’s impendingly doomed demise, get off your duffs and get out into the real world and gather the evidence to prove his fatal attraction wrong.
    Failing that, take the poor fellow out and and get him totally sloshed.

  28. I’m getting really tired of people getting weather confused with climate, so let’s make sure everyone understands:
    When it is cold, or there are less frequent and/or less powerful storms, this is what is technically known as weather.
    When it is warm or hot, or there are more frequent and/or more powerful storms, that is what is technically known as climate.

  29. Now I have something to be thankful for: I don’t have to travel in shaky airplanes halfway around the world to listen to tales of utter despair.

  30. John Goulton from Saratoga (the one in Oz),
    I am 66 and remember as a teenager wearing a Duffel coat that weighed more than I did also warm jumpers and jackets, today I don’t even own a rain coat let alone a jumper.
    My car a little Renault 750 had a heater, primitive but good, I used it a lot, I have never used the heater in my present vehicle, the demister sometimes.
    In those days a few blankets on the bed were the norm, not now, and no I don’t own an electric blanket.
    I rest my case your honour.

  31. Second attempt

    EricH

    I was thinking the same thing, perhaps we should start a counter-group.

    STOP CLIMATE CONTROL BEFORE THEY FREEZE US ALL TO DEATH!

    ;-)

  32. Wolfie Rankin (22:22:10) :
    …Meanwhile, on the other side of the world, in Victoria, Australia, we had “black friday” this February which shot us into the hottest day we’ve ever had, and due to the terrible dry, as it almost never rains here anymore, we had the worst fires and deaths imaginable. The temperature reached 46 celcius or 115 farenheit.

    That one off event is known as weather, not climate. The 8 years of static to cooling temperatures, resulting in broken cooling records is climatic.

  33. I lived it … Edmonton Area. I was only too happy to see the PDO cold and Arctic outflows over Vancouver, my mother liked the unusual winter weather over Christmas, still mild for her. With the Hurricane data indicating the AMO has gone cold as well, I look forward to sharing with my friends in Toronto next winter. From the looks of the Sun we can share in the wonders of the Great White North for a few decades … from sea to sea to ARCTIC!

    Southern Hemisphere … Antarctica is off to another nice start ;)

  34. Allan M R MacRae (22:30:49) :

    There are sad consequences of this huge misallocation of scarce global resources to fight a myth – catastrophic humanmade global warming simply does not exist.

    What used to exist were about twenty million children age 5 and less, who died in recent decades due to lack of clean drinking water. For no more money that was wasted on the phony war against global warming, clean drinking water and sanitation facilities could have been installed and millions of kids saved.

    That is just one cost of badly misplaced priorities.

    That really sums up the moral issues for us today, does it not?

    AGW proponents claim skeptics don’t care for their grandchildren, future generations, etc. when their proposals are rejected. Yet, they will sit on their hands regarding simple solutions benefiting millions of children living today.

    The attraction of working on climate issues is it can be done in the comfort of one’s home or office, with a cup of Starbucks on the side. Providing clean drinking water for the world’s truly poor and disadvantaged would require living with those truly poor and disadvantaged. This would include exposure to the very real health risks of those living in a society with non-existent energy sources.

    My granddaughter is incensed at the notion a child in Africa can contract malaria when not provided with a mosquito net costing less than a dollar.

    Why can’t we spend some of these billions wasted on computer models for some mosquito nets?

    Thank you very much for highlighting the real moral issues regarding this nonsense on global warming.

  35. Even the Arctic sea ice, which has replaced hurricanes as the alarm of the moment ever since hurricanes ceased to threaten, has grown this winter to an extent not seen since around 1980.

    That is not what the graph on the sidebar of this website shows.

    Sea ice has grown this winter to an extent not seen since a couple of years ago.

  36. I hear that they’re about to name large parts of Queensland an inland sea and have done with it.

    The fires in Victoria were not the result of climate change of whatever kind. The problem was about two months of nil rainfall and then several dry lightning strikes (and an arsonist) combined with an insane green-inspired policy of not back-burning the bush and not allowing trees to be cleared to provide decent firebreaks. Even the Aborigines used to set fire to the forest every seven years to prevent the accumulated branches and strip bark creating the conditions for an appalling disaster.

    Two hundred men, women and children died in the inferno that ripped through the countryside at the speed of a car on the freeway. They couldn’t have run fast enough if they’d tried (and many did try and failed).

    Forest fires are an entirely natural phenomenon in Australia and the Eucalyptus trees have evolved to use fire in order to reproduce and control competition for sunlight and soil.

    What is unnatural is the desire of some people to ensure that no proper management is done to the forest to prevent the kind of human catastrophe that struck the State of Victoria earlier this year.

  37. hey Wolfie Rankin…. hot in Sth Australia ect, cold in canada means nothing. The point here is only that there aint no changes due to AGW/CO2… but maybe if you read this

    http://climatesci.org/2009/03/13/a-excellent-seminar-at-the-university-of-colorado-at-boulder-what-goes-around-comes-around-by-gregory-r-carmichael/

    more in line with reality… there is possibly an effect but its local, and due to soot, pollution and land changes… so here we are possibly in agreement.

  38. Good one Lorne! Thanks. (Thanks for posting Anthony.)

    Southern Alberta from Nov to Feb was “average” (1970-2000) but that was mostly because of a warm November. Since 1986, mean annual temperatures where I live (500 km S of Mr. Gunter) have declined slightly …warmer winters (thank God) and cooler summers…on ‘average.’

    Everyone around here is complaining about the winter from hell, but THIS is what the warmers want for us. Bloody nonsense. Massive heating costs and bad roads…no thanks. Hard on wildlife..hard on people.

    For much of the Northern Hemisphere, warmer is better by FAR!

    And from San Francisco:

    http://www.sfexaminer.com/opinion/Examiner-Editorial-Cap-and-trade-is-Obamas-economic-dagger-41235777.html

    Well done Lorne! Thanks.

    Clive
    Coaldale, Alberta

  39. Lovelock commands respect because he understood decades before his peers that Earth behaves as a single, self-regulating system composed of physical, chemical and biological components, a concept he dubbed the Gaia principle.

    Gaia theory contradicts Darwinian’s theory of evolution. Instead of a single self-regulation system, instead we see a planet where all the life-forms are in competition with one another and their struggle for survival has caused them to adapt, evolve and take on the forms that they currently have. Therefore all the biological components are not self-regulating but instead have always been fighting a very slow and mostly unregulated war against each other and the planet with often unpredictable effects such as extinction.

    Human evolution and civilisation has finally allowed the fruition of self-regulation. We now (or will have soon) have the power to control many aspects of nature with advanced technologies. If we want more biodiversity we can create it. If we want life-forms that can’t contract cancer we can do it. If we want crop that is higher in nutritional value we can make that. If we want to stop intensive rearing of livestock and replace it with a nutritious tailored meat grown entirely in a lab then we could do that too.

    And long into the future we could live for as long as we wish to live, or replace ourselves with a new human species that will be capable of things that we Homo Sapiens can’t do.

    There will come a time when life on Earth will no longer be sustainable for natural reasons. The planet could be hit by an unstoppable object or very powerful gamma rays. A volcanic eruption could block sunlight for a few centuries. The sun could go into an unpredictable state of long hibernation or suddenly flare up with catastrophic results for all biological life. If we have not conquered the natural world by then and replaced ourselves with a higher life-form capable of being independent of a single ecosphere, then it will have been millions of years of evolution and hard work for nothing.

  40. Mike Lorrie, for the record Melbourne’s latitude is 38′ South, not 47′. I live in Geelong, which is south of Melbourne and the temperature here was 47 Celsius on that terrible day in January. I can assure you there wasn’t any urban heat island effect – it was really that hot. Having said that I agree with most posts that it was simply a weather event in a seasonally hot part of the world, and not reflective of climate change. Many of my fellow Victorians would disagree.

  41. Wolfie,

    I live in Melbourne and while we did have 4 stupidly hot days this summer, I would say overall it’s been nothing to write home about as far as heat goes. I would also says it’s been much more cloudy than last year, although I don’t have any offcial data to support this. At the moment it is very cold again following all the rain we had at the weekend. Coming originally from England, it all seems rather too familiar :-)

    http://www.weatherzone.com.au/news/chilliest-nights-since-spring/11487

  42. Responding to Wolfie Rankin – I also live in Victoria and was out fighting fires as a volunteer on Black Saturday 2009 and it was hot but I must say he needs only to look at the records of 1851 for a precedent. (No AGW back then)

    THE WEATHER. ( from the Melbourne “Argus” Newspaper Feb. 8.1851 )
    ” Thursday was one of the most oppresive hot-days we have experienced for some years.
    In the early morning the atmosphere was perfectly scorching, and at eleven o’clock the thermometer stood as high as 117 degrees ( 47.2 Celsius ) in the shade; at one o’clock it had fallen to 109 degrees and at four in the afternoon was up to 113 degrees.( 45 Celsius )

    The blasts of air were so impregnated with smoke and heat, that the lungs seemed absolutely to collapse under their withering influence; the murkiness of the atmosphere was so great that the roads were actually bright by contrast.
    The usual unpleasantness of hot wind was considerably aggravated by the existence of extensive bush fires to the northward, said by some to have an extent of 40 or 50 miles.
    In the evening, after an hour’s battle for the supremacy, the cool breeze came down, sweeping away the pestilential exhalation of the day, and bringing in its train a light and refreshing rain; for a considerable time yesterday, the parched earth greedily absorbed it as it fell, but a day’s continuance of such very seasonable weather will do no more than cool the surface.-Argus. Feb. 8. ( 1851 ) ”

    Who can say how many days in the past were like this before white settlement began in Victoria in 1835. Hot days are not new in Victoria and nor are bushfires – stop blaming global warming and recognise we live in one of the most bushfire prone areas of the world and there are more of us now therefore unfortunately and sadly casualties will be higher.

  43. “Even the Arctic sea ice, which has replaced hurricanes as the alarm of the moment ever since hurricanes ceased to threaten, has grown this winter to an extent not seen since around 1980.”

    O RLY?

  44. As James Lovelock said recently, people always get weather confused with Global Warming. He puts the past cold winter in the Northern Hemisphere down to the melting of the Artic ice cap and the movement south of the melted ice water, cooling northern land masses. Nevertheless, he points out that the global average sea temperature is still rising – the only measure he considers pertinent.

    At the beginning of the Millennium, our Met Office here in the UK predicted that Global Warming would produce much colder wetter winters, because the Gulf Stream (a body of warm water on our western shores) would move away and we would then experience a similar climate to others on the same latitude, such as er……Canada. Therefore, our unusually cold and wet winter is seen as evidence that Global Warming is actually happening !

    Who knows ? Only time will tell. In the meantime, we should bear in mind: ‘one swallow does not make a summer’.

  45. I DON’T believe it. This has the feel of something that will be retracted/corrected.

  46. Two new cold records set last week in Vancouver and we had snow yesterday afternoon.

    I didn’t know Al Gore was in town.

  47. Just weather, not climate. Nothing to see. Move along. Shame on you, Anthony, for this anecdotal drivel :)

  48. i enjoyed the story….but this is not true:

    “Even the Arctic sea ice, which has replaced hurricanes as the alarm of the moment ever since hurricanes ceased to threaten, has grown this winter to an extent not seen since around 1980.”

    i wonder why he said that?

  49. Record Minus 43 in Edmonton – It sure looks like GW is causing a black hole of cooling opposite to the UHI effect. Need a few million to study this.

  50. Frederick Michael (04:45:39) :

    I DON’T believe it. This has the feel of something that will be retracted/corrected.

    Fred, which of the fourteen independent measurements do you think is responsible for the “error”?

    It must be a tranmissible error disease:

    “Fred from Canuckistan . . . (04:47:32) :

    Two new cold records set last week in Vancouver and we had snow yesterday afternoon….”

  51. Neil O’Rourke (01:04:31) :
    (Quoting from here: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,25195980-1702,00.html?from=widget_rss )
    . . . Lovelock commands respect because he understood decades before his peers that Earth behaves as a single, self-regulating system composed of physical, chemical and biological components, a concept he dubbed the Gaia principle.

    The idea that the entire Earth is “a single, self-regulating system” has always struck me as vastly oversimplified if not just plain fanciful, just a step away from the preposterous sci-fi notion that the Earth is some kind of giant organism. Yet Lovelock “commands respect because he understood [this] decades before his peers.” Do any of his peers here accept this idea?

    While we as part of Earth’s biota are fortunate that change generally comes slowly (from our short-lived and very small perspective) and that disruptions are generally smoothed out (except when they aren’t—ask the dinosaurs) from the perspective of geological time the surface of this planet is a turbulent, chaotic mix of complex processes. It is surprising to me that even sober scientists frequently appeal to ‘self-regulation’ and ‘balance’ in Earth’s climate. You have to wonder whether these are anything more than convenient fictions which make short-term analyses easier.

    Just wonderin’. . .

    /Mr Lynn

  52. There are a lot of people in every age who think they know better than everyone else and, therefore, have a right to tell everyone how to live. In the 1950s, it was country-club and parish council busybodies with their strict moral codes. In the 1970s, it was social democrats with their fanciful economic theories. Today, it’s environmentalists.

    This is way off base, just ranting. If AGW is discredited as a theory, there will still be a lot of environmentalists with perfectly reasonable arguments on a variety of issues. As for the swipe at social democrats and fanciful economic theories, one could make the same remark about laissez faire free markerteers.

    Stick to the science – leave the economics and social critiques to people who are have some background in those fields.

  53. BTW…I know this text was not written by AW, but my comments apply to lots of what is said here, I think, mostly by commenters on his posts.

  54. EricH (23:06:14) said :
    I guess all that money spent trying to correct AGW so far is having an effect; or so their propaganda will claim. Just how cold do they want it to get before they will be happy?

    COULDN’T AGREE MORE.
    Try to get an AGW acolyte to answer this question;
    What set of data would convince you that “global warming” is NOT man-made?
    I ask that of EVERYONE who evens whispers “carbon” in my presence. So far, NOBODY has answered. NOBODY. [obligatory Federally mandated French translation for our Canadian Friends: PERSONNE! (I know how that drives Albertans nuts).]
    I’m going to switch to EricH’s question: How cold does it have to get before you’re happy?

    PS I accidentally discovered how to start a bar-fight in Calgary (correct pronunciation: Cal GARY); Suggest that the Meech Lake Accord was idiotic, and that Alberta and BC should secede and join the States as 51 and 52, eh?
    Screw Ottawa. Screw the damned loonie (best said when the Loonie’s in the dumps and yanks are buying-up everything in sight)! We’d let you keep what you earn instead of giving it all to Kay Beckers and the Noofies, eh?
    The “discussion” will simmer long enough for you to make it out the door before all hell breaks loose. Fawk (apparently an expletive referring to Guy Fawkes), where’s the damned yank who STARTED this, eh?

  55. deadwood (23:17:41) :

    That’s my concern too. Congress will be forced to pass cap and trade legislation regardless of scientific revelations or how world temps behave just to cover the cost of the stimulus package.

  56. Central MN set another daily record last Mon., -15 F. Third daily record for the season, the coldest since 1994.

  57. Stick to the science – leave the economics and social critiques to people who are have some background in those fields.

    Like anyone who pays bills and has family or friends – i.e. has a stake in government decisions.

  58. lichanos (05:27:47) :

    Is this Sunday? I got the feeling that you were preaching from your pulpit; to bad your surmon is old and tired.

    markm

  59. “Government of the people, by the people, and for the people”

    I don’t think Lincoln would necessarily have approved of “government by peer-reviewed Columbia educated elitists.”

  60. I wish someone would mention the enormous reduction in greenhouse gas emission that has already happened this year with the closing and slowing of industries all over the world. I’m quite sure that the recession/depression has already accomplished for the climate hysterics what fifty years of cap and trade couldn’t do.
    Next they will take credit for the current cooling trend by claiming it’s all because of the recession.

  61. Epaminondas (01:36:04) :

    Please see “How not to measure temperature” elsewhere on this site. The trouble is even the things we all “know” aren’t all that known. In fact the more I learn the less certain I become. We certainly don’t get our info from the weather channel.

  62. You know, run #422 out of 655 on model version TTKR-F45 v1.2 at the University of GimmeGrantMoney predicted this would happen. The same model predicted that 10 years from now there will be no ice anywhere in the world and we’ll all be living the Alps and Rocky Mountains because the rest of the planet will be a watery wasteland.

    So that proves it’s really just global warming.

  63. Richard (04:41:58) :

    “… Global Warming would produce much colder wetter winters, because the Gulf Stream (a body of warm water on our western shores) would move away and we would then experience a similar climate to others on the same latitude, such as er……Canada. Therefore, our unusually cold and wet winter is seen as evidence that Global Warming is actually happening !…”

    GISS map of Dec-Feb 2009 temp anomalies showing water temps at or slightly above 1980 levels. Closest water body to Edmonton is quite a bit colder.

  64. I’m with Graeme Rodaughan. Excellent points that stand out among other excellent points. Thanks, WUWT, for sharing this article. WUWT has become one of the sites I visit throughout the day, every day. Cool-headed rationalism, blunt observation, it’s all good.

  65. I will say something that I have been thinking during the last years: It seems that temperatures have “migrated” downwards to Canada and, consequently, the lowest temperatures are not longer recorded in the north pole, and, at the “other side”, in Moscow winters became milder. Is this so?

  66. The seas are getting warmer, they are getting more saturated in CO2 and so more acidic

    One, they weren’t acidic to begin with. Two, they still aren’t anywhere close now. Three, if they were getting warmer, they should be becoming less saturated with CO2 the last time I heard.

  67. “I guess we have anecdotal evidence in this thread from Bruce, but could it be possible there’s some explanation for the extremity of the record in the weather station hardware or some other kind of error?”

    Right. Anecdotal evidence. But it really was cold – both de-icing trucks froze up. And this is not Las Vegas. Those guys de-ice aircraft in very cold conditions all the time.

    My cryptic reference to: Edmonton International -43C; Edmonton City Centre -32C at the same time – was intended to draw attention to Edmonton as a great case study of an Urban Heat Island. I have had the opportunity to – anecdotaly – observe UHI around Edmonton for many years. Very prominent, particularly on cold, clear nights. If anyone was looking for a classic illustration of UHI, there would be no better data set than Edmonton City Centre Airport (urban), Edmonton International Airport (semi-rural) and the Alberta Research Council station at Royal Park (utterly rural).

    Cheers, Bruce

  68. John Goulton,

    In those days a few blankets on the bed were the norm, not now, and no I don’t own an electric blanket.
    I rest my case your honour.

    May I ask if you’ve had central heating, draft proofing, wall and roof insulation and/or double glazing put in over the past 30 years? That can make a lot of difference to how cold a winter feels. Also, on the average, middle-aged people are better insulated against the cold by substantial amounts of fat, and by the fact that they have to generate more heat than youngsters do in order to move the additonal bulk around. And then there’s selective cold winter memory syndrome. That ends my cross examination.

    If anybody would like to apply for research grant, how about putting together a proposal to study whether the recent record cold temperature recorded at Edmonton Airport was the result of a combination of global warming and the urban heat island effect?

  69. Poor Wolfie, makes a comment about weather in a thread about weather and gets flamed.

    anecdotal evidence is srs bsns.

  70. It’s unfortunate that “reporters” don’t verify their facts. If you go to the Environment Canada website and look at Edmonton International you will discover that the record March low was March 1, 1972 was -42.2 °C. BTW that’s only the record since 1971.

    http://www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/climate_normals/results_e.html?Province=ALL&StationName=edmonton&SearchType=BeginsWith&LocateBy=Province&Proximity=25&ProximityFrom=City&StationNumber=&IDType=MSC&CityName=&ParkName=&LatitudeDegrees=&LatitudeMinutes=&LongitudeDegrees=&LongitudeMinutes=&NormalsClass=A&SelNormals=&StnId=1865&

    We read about global warming alarmism, the sky is falling, all the time. Here we have a reporter giving incorrect facts and yet it is accepted as truth because it agrees with our opinion that the climate is cooling.

    Being factually incorrect is wrong regardless of which side of this argument you are promoting.

  71. Here in Scotland we have had a cold winter. Colder than for a decade or two, but nothing remarkable about record lows, or record high snow-fall. Just persistent cool weather since about November.

    I was quite surprised to see UAH coming in at a perky +0.35C for Feb. But also note cold water appearing in the E equatorial Pacific.

  72. I agree that one city and one cold spell does not make a trend, but what Gunter is trying to point out is that because the cool phases are not reported as often as the warm phases when they happen, the true cooling and big climate picture is lost. This cooling is real and has been happening all over the planet and for several years now. Here is what has happened just in Canada alone recently:

    More cold weather and unusually more snow in BC [4 snow falls in March alone and big blizzard in December2008] In the 30 years prior to 1998, there were only two blizzards in March]

    Record cold across Alberta during January and March [-41.5C at Edmonton International Airport March 10, 2009]

    Record cold wind chills of -50C in Saskatchewan Jan 4, 2009

    Record Cold over Southern Manitoba as 6 communities set cold records [as low as -43.8 in Sprague January 13, 2009]

    Record cold in Fredericton and Edmunston, New Brunswick [record-43.3 C in Edmunston on January 12, 2009, 124 year record set in Fredericton on Jan 16 of -34.3 C

    Rare near complete freeze over of 3 of the 5 Great Lakes, Superior, Erie, Huron in March, 2009. Lake Superior freezes about once in every 20 years

    Rare coast to coast snow right across CANADA in December 2008. [Similar to 1970’s]

    Record cold in Maine, US [-50 C at Big Black River Jan16, 2009]

    I have not looked at possible records in other Northern US States but there must be similar records in states like Minnesota, North Dakota, etc.

    The message here is that Canada and the entire northern half of the North American continent has started to cool down to the climate conditions and temperatures that existed in the 1960-1970’s due to the emergence of the negative or cool phases of the PDO and AMO. This will spread slowly further south.These recent cooling and global warming periods have nothing to do with changing carbon dioxide levels. Similar cool cycles existed in the period 1900-1925 especially 1903-1915 when AMO and PDO were also negative or in cool phase.

  73. Just waiting for the weather to warm up so I can put my house up for sale in Calgary, still freaking cold! I’m actually on Vancouver Island trying to finish a house I’m building here and of course being delayed a lot because of the cold and SNOW. Not bad for a rain forest type climate. Locals have never seen it so bad, must have had three feet of snow this year, so much for moving to a warmer climate! However , AGW must be real because Zen’s garbage can blew over.LOL

    Brent in Calgary

  74. “Face it: just because you watch the Weather Channel, that doesn’t mean you’re a meteorologist. I’m not an expert either…” – but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night…and it was HOT in that room!

  75. @ Epaminondas
    The experts here can correct several of your remarks with appropriate citations. I would like to comment on the claim that oceans are warming. There is now a very powerful system of drifting bouys that can report ocean temperature to satellites — I think there is something like 3,000 all over the world. The director of the Argos system has remarked that there is no recent warming trend. It seems, however that open access to the data is restricted — perhaps someone here can comment on that aspect.

    In regard to synchronization of a chaotic system — a short article has just appeared:

    UW-Milwaukee Study Could Realign Climate Change Theory
    Scientists Claim Earth Is Undergoing Natural Climate Shift

    http://www.wisn.com/weather/18935841/detail.html

  76. Here’s some background:

    Edmonton is a city of about a million, an island urban area (ie. it’s a city on its own, not just a section of a larger urban conglomeration.) Edmonton is surrounded by farmland.

    The Edmonton airport is about 25km south of CITY LIMITS, so UHI is not a factor. Meanwhile, the other airport is in the middle of the city (but is no longer used for commercial flights), and recorded a temperature that night of “only” -32C. Where I am, 2.5 hours south of Edmonton, recorded -27C that same night. It was a cold, cold front that wandered through, I can say that.

    hareynolds, Calgary is pronounced “CAL gree” by natives, any other pronunciation immediately marks the speaker as non-native, therefore subject to all manner of outrageous pranks. While we’re at it, Edmonton is pronounced “E-MUN-en”, in those rare times Calgarians even think about it. For the most part, Edmonton is where we keep our mall. Well, no, Edmonton is where Edmontonians keep their mall. Edmonton used to be where we kept Wayne Gretzky, and many people won’t be surprised to know that one of the main roads there is named for him.

    The thing is, Edmonton is far enough north that at pretty much any time the jet stream veers far enough south, a RAW arctic air mass can sit on the city and chill it down. That is what happened last week, and although it’s “just weather”, there seemed to be a lot of it this winter. Consider how cold that air mass was before it wandered south, then tell me about thinning arctic ice.

  77. Human minds strangely disconnect the measure of large complex systems with their state. There seems little to say to them to disabuse them of this false perception.

    Take the curious state of global affairs today. We’re in this grand global economic crisis, with everyone seeming to loudly protest having been misled into trusting things that were too good to be true. At the very same time, the world over, everyone is also saying the solution is clearly to just hurry to back to having things too good to be true all the time,… as usual.

    Aren’t we being more than a little whacko? There are sane people around, it does seem, but I think the crazy people just wouldn’t trust them.

  78. Anthony for your information:

    “Musical prof a mouthpiece for eco-propaganda

    She should know the jury’s still out on climate change

    By Jon Ferry, The Province March 16, 2009 7:02 AM

    REPLY: Thanks, I’ve made an article from it. – Anthony

  79. Anthony,
    I live on one of the Gulf Islands in British Columbia [San Juan's on the US side]. In 2007 the daffodils were 1 week later than normal, in 2008 2 weeks later and in this year 4 weeks late. Not a hummingbird to be found and they should haven been since the beginning of March. This came up yesterday in a discussion amongst a group of gardeners here [who track these things] as we were commenting on the sleet and wet snow that was coming down [March 16 !]. Anecdotal, for sure but real nonetheless.

  80. Parse Error (02:07:27) :

    I’m getting really tired of people getting weather confused with climate, so let’s make sure everyone understands:
    When it is cold, or there are less frequent and/or less powerful storms, this is what is technically known as weather.
    When it is warm or hot, or there are more frequent and/or more powerful storms, that is what is technically known as climate.

    Parse Errror is making the same erroneous assumption that Al Gore and certain other AGW pundits made, namely the assumption that a rise in overall world temperature would lead to stronger and more frequent extreme weather events. In fact, the vaunted climate models show the polar regions warming more than the tropics leading to a lesser temperature gradient between the polar regions and the tropics. It is the temperature gradients and humidity gradients that contains the energy to produce extreme weather events. Witness the number and severity of storms recorded by the British Navy during the little ice age.

    Accusing posters at this site of confusing weather with climate is a straw man argument. This site is about weather and climate and I think it clear that most posters understand the difference.

  81. Psi (05:25:32) :

    I’m just skeptical of this due to its extreme outlier nature. My guess is that someone misread/misquoted the old record. If this news story turns out to be in error, we will be ridiculed mercilessly. Triple check this before taking the bait.

  82. The article is referring to the record low for March 10. The writer seems to be (incorrectly) under the impression that this was also the March low. As others have mentioned, early March 2003 also recorded temperatures near -40. The truth of the matter is that this isn’t significantly lower than previous March lows at Edmonton International.

  83. Let’s see here. A nice temperature for humans might be 20 to 25 C.
    An Oz temp of 40 to 45 C would be an extra 20 degrees Celsius.
    A Great White North temp of -35 to -30 would be off target by 55 degrees Celsius.
    Without coal and natural gas there would be a few million people who might envy the Oz climate quite a lot.

  84. Don’t know if it’s been posted before but here’s a news story about an interesting study done using Chaos theory applied to climate to say that ‘warming stopped in about 2001 and will not resume for another 20-30 years’. University of Wisconsin – Milwakee (which I’m sure is receiving most of its funding from Exxon).

    http://www.wisn.com/weather/18935841/detail.html

  85. Re: Frederick Michael (08:14:11) :

    I just checked over the Environment Canada records again. The March low for 1975 was -29.4, and that occurred on March 10. -29.4 was only the March 10 record.

    The article is *wrong*.

    REPLY: If you can provide a URL to the EC references, I’ll post a correction. – Anthony

  86. Epaminondas (01:36:04) :
    Face it: just because you watch the Weather Channel, that doesn’t mean you’re a meteorologist. I’m not an expert either, but I pay attention to what the research says, as opposed to what the self-seeking grand-standers say.

    Sheeesh. I’m reminded of those two, nice, shiny, earnest young men with dress shirts and ties and name tags who came to the door the other day wanting to know if I could use some spiritual uplift and inspiration. The professor of sociology of religion thanked them for their concern and wished them well and sent them on their way.

    To Epaminondas and any other bright, shiny, earnest AGW type who has come here to bring enlightenment to the foolish and ignorant. Many of the people who post here have awesome credentials. You can check them out. They are real scientists. Many of the people who post here are busy deconstructing and replicating the work that some of your favorite scientists do. It’s fascinating. Some people who post here cherry pick, obfuscate, fulminate, or just plain deliver bad information (like yours, Epaminondas) and everyone else here is happy to point it out. With citations.

    Take the time to become informed.

  87. This should be all you need to disprove the 12 degree claim:

    Monthly for 1975:

    http://www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/climateData/monthlydata_e.html?timeframe=3&Prov=AB&StationID=1865&Year=1975&Month=3&Day=15

    Monthly for 2003:

    http://www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/climateData/monthlydata_e.html?timeframe=3&Prov=AB&StationID=1865&Year=2003&Month=3&Day=15

    REPLY: Thanks I’ll check it out. Off to work now, so it will have to wait until tonight. – Anthony

  88. Let’s see here. A nice temperature for humans might be 20 to 25 C.

    When I lived in Mumbai and Los Angeles they (as in well off young people who mostly haven’t done a day’s work in their lives) would complain it was cold when it dropped to 20C in the winter. I said they should try living in England. When you see your heating bill at the end of winter then complain!

    And England is nothing compared to many countries that get far colder.

  89. The Gunther article starts with
    “So far this month, at least 14 major weather stations in Alberta have recorded their lowest-ever March temperatures. I’m not talking about daily records; I mean they’ve recorded the lowest temperatures they’ve ever seen in the entire month of March since temperatures began being recorded in Alberta in the 1880s.

    This past Tuesday, Edmonton International Airport reported an overnight low of -41.5 C, smashing the previous March low of -29.4 C set in 1975. ”

    So for those of you who think he was talking about march 10 records you are mistaken.

    In a previous post I posted a link to Environment Canada which has records from 1971 – 2000. Follow the link below and you can plainly see March record of -42.2. The Gunther article is bogus.

    http://www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/climate_normals/results_e.html?Province=ALL&StationName=edmonton&SearchType=BeginsWith&LocateBy=Province&Proximity=25&ProximityFrom=City&StationNumber=&IDType=MSC&CityName=&ParkName=&LatitudeDegrees=&LatitudeMinutes=&LongitudeDegrees=&LongitudeMinutes=&NormalsClass=A&SelNormals=&StnId=1865&

  90. I’m not mistaken thinking he was talking about March 10 records. He was mistaken thinking he was talking about March records. I doubt Mr. Gunter would want to deliberately undermine his credibility by making a huge deal out of something which could be easily debunked. It was just the same overzealousness/carelessness we see in the AGW crowd. Mr. Gunter just happens to have the same zeal when it comes to reporting anti-AGW news. He often reports on things which would undermine AGW theory.

  91. Wolfie (#3)

    I live in Canada, but was born and raised in Melbourne. The 9 Feb max of 46.4° was 0.8° above the previous 1939 max.

    We’re talking 12° C in Edmonton.

    Read and absorb or go away.

  92. Curse you, Anthony!!! Thanks to this blog I have to spend several hours a day adding all kinds of interesting information to what I have already learned about climate. [smile]
    This is truly an international forum, with contributions from opposite sides of the world in addition to its home country.

    Ian

  93. Let us see how BIG the lie’s are from the warm mongers!!!!!
    My turn my turn!!!!!!

    ……… Epaminondas (01:36:04) :………..

    One of the problems in seeking a rational debate about complex matters that is these are trivialized by labels. The overall effect of ‘global cooling’, the reason for a simplistic name, is an observed overall decrease in the world’s average temperature. A simple hot snap in one area does not invalidate the argument that climates are changing, and generally becoming cooler.
    The simple and undeniable fact that the world’s average temperature is decreasing does not rule out the possibility of a reverse in local situations.

    For example, at any time now, a giant ocean current that starts in the north Atlantic might stop, because warming around the strait between Alaska and Siberia has reduced the amount of sea ice formed. The current is kicked off by cold brine, descending into the ocean at the top of the Pacific as freshwater ice forms on the surface.

    This current, known as ‘The Conveyor’, runs down, around Cape Horn and up into the Pacific , and it drives the Gulf Stream. If the Gulf Stream stops, a large part of north-western Europe could be subject to sea ice and even be frozen in, each winter, because of global cooling. I say it again: global cooling can cause places to freeze over that have not frozen in recent times.

    It hasn’t happened yet. At the same time, it looks as though southern Australia could become more drought-prone, even as northern parts get higher rainfall in the next half-century. There will be floods in the south, maybe even droughts in the north, but the overall effect will be soggy tropics and dry temperate regions.

    **** sounds like weather to me!!!!! eah?

    Weather patterns settle into sort-of stable forms, but if you kick the weather, jolt the weather from its track, don’t expect it to bounce back when you stop kicking. It will be on a new track.

    The seas are getting cooler”la-nina” , they are getting less saturated in CO2 “and so more acidic”???? (SO2?)( less alkaline ) , we are approaching a situation where calcium carbonate exoskeletons (shells) are less and less able to stay solid(calcium carbonate has CO2 in it). That means we may see the breakdown and collapse of Australia’s Great Barrier Reef. If that happens, much of Australia’s north-east coast will be battered by ocean waves generated by the cyclones (the equivalent of hurricanes) that are expected to increase in numbers and size. (((((sorry all speculation here)))))

    There has been no sea ice between the island of Saarinen and the Estonian coast in 15 years, the most recent northern winter was the first time in 15 years that the canals of Amsterdam froze over. If ‘The Conveyor’ stops, because of global cooling, the moose of Saarinen will be able to spread all over Europe.
    ((“good for the moose’s”))

    Predicting the actual results is close to impossible, so saying “oh this prediction didn’t happen in Double-Dubuque last Tuesday” is not an argument. It is cherry-picking the data to come up with a scenario that suits one’s share portfolio or political ‘word view’ . It is a facile and simplistic failed attempt at obfuscation by somebody who knows squat( ALGORE? ).

    Weather patterns change and climate changes, all over the world. All we can really say in the way of prediction is that the vast majority of the foreseeable futures look very, very cold, and no amount of waffle will change that.

    Face it: just because you watch the Weather Channel, that doesn’t mean you’re a meteorologist. I’m not an expert either, but I pay attention to what the research says, as opposed to what the self-seeking grand-standers warm mongers say.

    Dose everyone understand the lies here? how it is so easy to see through it?
    how this is. ” This argument IS ours too!!!
    enjoy peps.

  94. Jack Simmons – tell your grand daughter about DDT and about how eco-fascists condemned millions to death by having it effectively banned worldwide

  95. K Stricker

    Gunter said this “This past Tuesday, Edmonton International Airport reported an overnight low of -41.5 C, smashing the previous March low of -29.4 C set in 1975.”

    You may well be correct in that he meant to say March 10 but the fact is that he did not.

    I can see the City Centre Airport from my rooftop, have a weather station and it was 12 ° colder at my house on that day than any March temperature than I have recorded inside the UHI. But then I’ve only got 4 years of data. :)

  96. Mr. Gunter also reports that Lloydminster had “hit -35.2 C, breaking its old March record of -29.2 C” but according to the same sites that K Stricker and Charlie98 were referencing, the low for lloydminster was -31.62, set in 1996. Those sites only go back to 1971, however and Gunter is referencing (but not citing!) records back in the 1950’s. I suspect his source for his figures is different from the one we have been looking at. I also wonder if the Canadian Weather Office has taken to “adjusting” past figures? Their web site does look pretty good, though, and you get lots of data right at your fingertips. Thanks to you both.

  97. K Stricker (08:55:05) :

    Ahhh… can you get that site to give you the figures for one day rather than a month or do I have to look elsewhere? I don’t have time to poke around in any depth right now, but I’d like to be able to do that.

  98. CodeTech (07:51:43) said :

    hareynolds, Calgary is pronounced “CAL gree” by natives, any other pronunciation immediately marks the speaker as non-native, therefore subject to all manner of outrageous pranks. While we’re at it, Edmonton is pronounced “E-MUN-en”, in those rare times Calgarians even think about it. For the most part, Edmonton is where we keep our mall. Well, no, Edmonton is where Edmontonians keep their mall. Edmonton used to be where we kept Wayne Gretzky, and many people won’t be surprised to know that one of the main roads there is named for him.

    I was waiting for an Albertan to jump on that; like I was trying to tie-up the puck in the offensive end, eh, fully expecting a stout defensemen to rearrange my kidneys with the butt end of his stick.

    You are correct, of course, but I was told this by an extra-prissy Cal-GARY born Prairie Princess (married by VERY rich ex-boss), who says that the original settlers (Scottish?) pronounced it Cal-GARY, so that’s the CORRECT pronunciation, current custom be damned.

    Oh, and I spend a week in Red Deer one night a few years back. Or was that Medecine Hat? Works either way.

  99. Mr Lynn (05:26:17) :

    Lovelock is what those on the professional engineering sideof the fence would call “f**kwit” or something similar.

    Self-regulating entity??

  100. Mr. Gunter was kind enough to respond to an e-mail asking for the source of his data and supplied this link:

    http://www.theweathernetwork.com/news/storm_watch_stories3&stormfile=prairiecold_11_03_2009&warningtype=aw

    When you click on the link it appears that it is indeed, as K Stricker suggested above, displaying extremes for the date and not for the whole month. From my unseasonably warm perch here in Southern New England, however, that’s still darn cold!

    A lesson to all of us to double check the figures we ask others to consume.

  101. Accusing posters at this site of confusing weather with climate is a straw man argument.

    What frightens me is that I completely understand how one could overlook the sarcasm of my intentionally absurd statement. To clarify, I was mocking those who go into hysterics over every heatwave or hurricane, but ignore cold snaps and calm storm seasons. I neglected to consider how many people actually say very similar things with utter sincerity.

  102. The facts presented in this article are simply untrue. A simple view of data from Environment Canada’s website can confirm that the author is incorrect. This article claims numerous march temperature records were broken and they were not. This article should be clearly stated as FALSE! Articles like this make the [snip] look foolish!

  103. rephelan: You can get hourly readings for a specific day from the Environment Canada site. It didn’t give me any linkable URLs while I was doing that (POST form) so I didn’t link any. The trick is to start at the ‘Climate Data Online’ link in the left menu.

  104. From a friend up there: “Living so close to the Arctic anything can happen temperature wise in Canada. The 1950’s were the coldest (-50C) I remember, but this year we have had prolonged cold spells without the usual Chinook Winds.
    Medicine Hat still has 1.2 meters of snow in places but it is now melting fast….”

  105. Oh, and rephelan, thanks for getting his source. There’s a note floating above the “Alberta” section on the weather network page.

    “*Monthly record: the lowest March temperature on record for that station.”

    Looks like he probably made a mapping error and assumed that note applied to the entire section rather than to the single value from Clinton, BC.

  106. For me Edmonton’s weather over the past 40 years has been the canary in the coalmine to convince me that there has a been a shift in the weather/climate to a warmer place in that time. And possibly something of a shift back. I lived there in the 60’s and early 70’s and was basically driven out by relentless long cold winters. In the 80’s and 90’s I was back there from time to time in the winter and surprised to find periods of mild weather. Melting snow for instance, where it used to just stay on the ground from November to March without a break. i now live 300 miles south of Edmonton and this past winter (I hope it’s past but there is still 2 feet of snow on my lawn) it seems that the old timey Edmonton winter has not only come back but has spread itself down south to where I am. We got that bitter cold -28C stuff on March 10 and thereabouts too. It wasn’t any error in the readings, I can testify to that. I had to walk to work one morning because my car wouldn’t start. In MARCH for crying out loud. It’s just weather, but it’s an observable pattern. It got warmer for a couple of decades and now it’s getting colder again. Maybe that’s our climate in Alberta, a cycling thing.

  107. “Predicting the actual results is close to impossible, so saying “oh this prediction didn’t happen in Double-Dubuque last Tuesday” is not an argument. It is cherry-picking the data to come up with a scenario that suits one’s share portfolio or political weltanschauung (take that as ‘word view’ if you wish). It is a facile and simplistic failed attempt at obfuscation by somebody who knows squat.”

    Oh, and so alarmist types like yourself, Epaminondas, don’t ever cherry-pick data. Like when the Senate turned off the room air conditioning and scheduled a hearing for one of the hottest days in Washington, D.C. to have James Hansen and others testify in favor of doing something about “global warming.” You have a lot of chutzpah, sir, a lot. Your premise about average temperatures still going up is also wrong. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary recently. The temperatures in Edmonton, Alberta are just one of many examples over the past couple of years.

    I also note that none of the trends that appear over the past few years were predicted by the models. It is not cherry-picking to point that out. As always, the problem with computer models is garbage in, garbage out. They are not good at predicting long term weather, pure and simple. If I were a judge presiding over the case of what will happen and whether there is AGW that requires action, I would throw those models out as incompetent evidence.

    Don’t resort to ideology to attack others whom you accuse of “cherry picking.”

  108. The Guardian reported a few weeks ago that temperatures in the Arctic are minus 90C, which is below the freezing point of dry ice and colder than the coldest temperature ever recorded on earth.

    Arctic explorers prepare to leave for climate survey expedition
    Pen Hadow and his team are embarking on a three-month Arctic expedition that will see them endure temperatures as low as -90C

    The purpose of the expedition is to prove that the Arctic is melting at -90C.

    Three British explorers hope to set off tomorrow to trek and swim more than 1,000 km across ice pans, frozen ridges and open ocean to help scientists discover how long it will be before the Arctic sea ice disappears due to climate change.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/feb/26/arctic-pen-hadow-climate

  109. Wolfie (#3), The Australian bush fire deaths were mainly caused by green stupidity.

    DOING FINE: A patriot’s vision saved his house despite persecution from enviro-bureaucrats
    By VEXNEWS ⋅ February 12, 2009

    patriotwithaxe Liam Sheahan is almost certainly a boofhead. But he’s a patriot too. A very large Aussie flag flies patriotically from his property in Reedy Creek. He cracks a smile when he sees a chainsaw.

    Years ago, he decided to clear by subtle means of bulldozer a whole bunch of trees surrounding his home on top of a hill which is no doubt also his castle.

    The local council – Mitchell Shire – cracked the sads at his unilateral approach to fire safety, persecuting and prosecuting him, securing a $50000 fine and costing the axe-wielding patriot another fifty thousand in legals. He was ably represented in the hearing by barrister and former Melbourne Deputy Lord Mayor Clem Newton-Browne.

    As noted by a commenter below who helpfully put up this link, the bloke’s cause was probably not helped when the council pursued him over the removal of the trees, according to the Herald Sun he responded [pdf] patriotically but perhaps unwisely:

    the Sheahans told the complaining residents and the council to ‘‘get stuffed’’ when asked to explain the clearing. ‘‘We could not care any less than we do now what any self-righteous self appointed ‘green police’ person thinks about what we are doing,’’ they wrote. ‘‘It is our place, not theirs. We have owned it since 1982. We paid for it, not them, and they can go and get stuffed.’

    Ultimately his decision to remove 250 trees saved his family and his home during the weekend’s bushfires.

    http://www.vexnews.com/news/2745/doing-fine-a-patriots-vision-saved-his-house-despite-persecution-from-enviro-bureaucrats/

  110. Steven Goddard

    Stick to the science – leave the economics and social critiques to people who are have some background in those fields.

    Like anyone who pays bills and has family or friends – i.e. has a stake in government decisions.

    Okay, touche. DIdn’t make my point well. Nobody has a monopoly on insight, so I don’t think broad generalizations about social democrats and environmentalists are very useful. Especially not on a site that’s supposed to be about science.

  111. >Wolfie (#3), The Australian bush fire deaths were mainly caused by green stupidity.

    This is unmitigated nonsense. The day had the most extreme fire weather conditions ever experienced in southeast Australia. Conditions were so extreme the objective numbers used to define fire weather – the fire danger indices – reached values twice as high as those observed in the previous most extreme fire event – Black Friday 1939 on which the current scale of fire weather is defined and which lead to the scale have a top value of 100.

    This day came on top of the driest start to a year on record which came on top of the driest 3 years on record on top of the driest 12 years on record on top of the hottest decade on record.

    House and lives were lost in towns, farming land, near forests and in forests. Many of the fires burnt through areas very recently control burnt and much of the forest burnt was open to logging.

  112. Parse Error (10:30:22) :

    Accusing posters at this site of confusing weather with climate is a straw man argument.

    What frightens me is that I completely understand how one could overlook the sarcasm of my intentionally absurd statement. To clarify, I was mocking those who go into hysterics over every heatwave or hurricane, but ignore cold snaps and calm storm seasons. I neglected to consider how many people actually say very similar things with utter sincerity.

    Sorry. Parse Error, I didn’t realize you were being facetious. Sometimes it is hard to distinguish between a skeptic being satirical and a warmist being serious.

  113. Re Wolfie (22:22:10),

    Meanwile in Queensland temperatures were below average for February, up to 4 degrees below average – Australia doesn’t stop at the victorian border.
    Also that record was set in Melbourne (look up UHI) and was a small increase on the previous record set at Mildura. Mildura (a rural station) did not break it’s previous record from 1939.

  114. DJ (12:51:46) says, This is unmitigated nonsense.

    The Australian bush fire deaths were mainly caused by green stupidity which stated that you could only remove trees within 6 mtrs of your home.

    The house is safe because we did all that,” he said as he pointed out his kitchen window to the clear ground of 100 mtrs where tall gum trees once cast a shadow on his house.

    “We have got proof right here. We are the only house standing in a two-kilometre area.”

    THE ONLY HOUSE STANDING WAS MR SHEAHAN`S.

  115. >Also that record was set in Melbourne (look up UHI) and was a small increase on the previous record set at Mildura.

    AlexB all you have written is wrong. The record FFDI was not in Melbourne in 1939 nor in 2009.

    Further, the record for Victoria in the 2009 heatwave was 48.8C at Hopetoun – this is a small town in NW Victoria – a region which has experienced population decline . The previous Feb record for Victoria was 46.7C – bettered by more than 2C. The previous all month record for Victoria was that at Mildura set in 1939 at 47.2C which was bettered by more than 1C.

    As for Melbourne – the record in Melbourne was broken by 3C. The heat had nothing to do with urban heat islands as records were smashed by large margins in rural areas surrounding Melbourne.

    Once again facts contradict “sceptics” claims. The real facts are summarised at the report available at http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/statements/scs17d.pdf.

    Reply: Everyone please get back on topic. This thread is a report on Edmonton. ~dbstealey, mod.

  116. DJ (12:51:46) :

    “This day came on top of the driest start to a year on record which came on top of the driest 3 years on record on top of the driest 12 years on record on top of the hottest decade on record”

    Barry Brooks nursery rhyme chant [which you quoted without attribution] sounds good- till you realise Australia has only had reliable temperature records since 1910 [according to the BOM]

    Poster “Arnost” provided historic evidence earlier in this thread for a combined drought, extreme heat and [much larger] fire event that struck Victoria in 1851.

    Yep, extreme weather events can be dangerous.

  117. My car thermometer that day recorded -38c at the outskirts of Edmonton.
    Another anecdotal record as my car thermometer isn’t calibrated.

    ——-Epaminondas (01:36:04)
    “descending into the ocean at the top of the Pacific as freshwater ice forms on the surface”
    One thing I have difficulty understanding how exactly does one make freshwater ice out of ocean water?
    Isn’t the Arctic all sea ice with only some places where ice shelves from glaciers float atop the salty sea water.
    Perhaps you are a self-seeking grand-stander yourself?

  118. To those who criticised my earlier post, I was repeating Lovelock’s comments. which impressed me. I don’t have enough knowledge to make a judgement – just my experience of native UK flora and fauna during my lifetime, some of which are appearing increasingly stressed, whilst more Mediterranean species are beginning to flourish.

    Lovelock is also critical of much of the ‘science’ on both sides of the debate and made it clear in the interview that there were only a handful of independently-funded, multi-disciplined scientists capable of making an authoritative judgment on Global Warming. He believes funding sources often subconsciously influence conclusions and that a scientist needs to be trained in many areas of science (including geophysics, biology, chemistry and meteorology) to understand to pull together and appreciate all the relevant data.

    As other data has been posted, I re-state that he sees average global ocean temperature (NOT surface or air temperature) as important, since the oceans act as a ‘heat sink’ for the planet.

    As for the climate vs weather issue, I would say the above article and much of the comments show that many people (Lovelock’s comment was aimed at commentators and journalists principally) do get the two confused.

    My comment about swallows was meant to support this: you can’t draw conclusions from single weather events, short time periods or from change in climate in one locality: as schnurrp’s link map shows, the impact of current changes can vary enormously in different parts of the globe.

    Only time will tell who is right.

  119. lmao. i hate it when people attribute every little spike or dip in temperature to omfg global warming! you can’t just look at ONE record low or high.

    And, you (not “you,” specifically) do realize that it’s technically “climate change” and NOT “global warming?” Some areas will get colder, others warmer.

  120. Re DJ (14:33:19)

    The temperature records they are talking about in Edmonton date back to the 1880’s. The temperature record you referred to at the Hopetoun station dates back to 2004. Most of the stations which smashed their records were not around for the 1939 heat wave so its a bit hard to compare them wouldn’t you think? Of the eight climate stations which the bom judges suitable to compare long term maximum temperature only 4 are reported in that report of yours despite recording temperatures for that period. Of the 4 reported 3 broke all time records, of the 3 that broke all time records only 2 were around in 1939. I have tried to get the records for the missing stations from the bom but they have been unhelpful in the matter. That is the truth of the matter.

  121. eeerie,

    “…it’s technically “climate change” and NOT “global warming…”

    Nope. It’s still global warming. Specifically, it’s about whether CO2 causes significant global warming. That’s what the discussion is all about [actually, it's about money and status, and who gets it -- CO2 having had such an insignificant effect on the climate].

    “Climate change” came along after the 1997 spike in temps. But it’s really all about non-existent global warming, and the alarmism that feeds off it.

  122. “What frightens me is that I completely understand how one could overlook the sarcasm of my intentionally absurd statement.”

    I wonder if there is a list of climate absurdities somewhere? I think the domain name is available.

    No Arctic sea ice within five years…
    GCMs are reliable out to fifty years…
    CO2 is causing uncontrollable warming…
    I am from the government and I am here to help you…
    Polar bears are in danger of extinction…
    Sea levels are rising dangerously…
    Curly lights will save the earth…
    CO2 mitigation will only cost about ten bucks per person per year…
    Cold is good warmth is bad…
    Global average temperature is an extremely accurate and reliable metric…
    Clouds, oceans and the sun have nothing to do with earth climate…
    Recycle to save the children…etc. etc. etc ad nauseum…

  123. DJ
    there are plenty of bushfire experts in Victoria who have come out publicly with a very different take on things to your “unmitigated nonsense’. Perhaps the reality is somewhere in the middle. Yes it was a bad day for fires – I know what the conditions were like here in Adelaide that same day – but there was a lot that could and should have been done before the fire that wasn’t due to environmental regulations etc.

  124. “Some areas will get colder, others warmer.”

    And how would that be different than any other time in the last thousand years?

  125. “rtgr (02:00:34) : acoording to NOAA feb 2009
    9th warmest feb ever ?!
    whattsupwiththat?”

    What’s up? What’s up is that global warming says it’s supposed to be warmer than 9th warmest. But there’s 8 February’s warmer.

  126. Wolfie Rankin ….. It wasn’t the hottest day Australia had ever had… It was the hottest day the Melbourne CBD had ever had. Which is understandable considering where the thermometer is sited.

    Australia’s hottest day is actually 50.7°C (123°F) , which was recorded at the town of Oodnadatta in Sth Aust. on the 2/Jan/1960.

    There is an unofficial high temp of 53.3°C (128°F) on 16/1/1889 at Cloncurry QLD Australia.

    As for the Bushfires of “Black Friday”…. It was the 120km per hour winds in the middle of Summer, after a years of allowing bush and fuel loads to build up, due to ill advised environmental ideology and bad fire prevention practices….

    Had Victorian Parks and Wildlife practiced cold burning off in the national forests, had Land owners been allowed to clear trees and scrub from their own landholdings…. The fires, though bad, would not have wreaked the same devastation.

    That’s the true story Wolfie ol’ mate.

  127. Mr Lynn (05:26:17) :

    Neil O’Rourke (01:04:31) :
    (Quoting from here: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,25195980-1702,00.html?from=widget_rss )
    . . . Lovelock commands respect because he understood decades before his peers that Earth behaves as a single, self-regulating system composed of physical, chemical and biological components, a concept he dubbed the Gaia principle.

    The idea that the entire Earth is “a single, self-regulating system” has always struck me as vastly oversimplified if not just plain fanciful, just a step away from the preposterous sci-fi notion that the Earth is some kind of giant organism. Yet Lovelock “commands respect because he understood [this] decades before his peers.” Do any of his peers here accept this idea?

    From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Answer_to_Life,_the_Universe,_and_Everything#Answer_to_Life.2C_the_Universe.2C_and_Everything_.2842.29

    “This new computer will incorporate living beings in the “computational matrix”, with the pan-dimensional creators assuming the form of mice.”

    WRT just a step away from the preposterous sci-fi notion that the Earth is some kind of giant organism.

    It’s been done.

  128. I would assert that the indoctrination of the general population into the ideological framework of AGW has neutered peoples ability to relate to weather/climate.

    People are no longer able to distinguish events that are natural from those that are man made.

    I would suggest the following distinction to clarify this.

    1. All weather events are of natural origin, unless a direct causal link is established from human actions to a specific weather event.

  129. ” Richard (04:41:58) : ‘one swallow does not make a summer’.”

    I think you guys can drop saying this by now. There’s been a cooling trend in the earth since 2004 (really since 1998 ;) ) and it’s continuing. There’s been record cold reported for more than two years. Cooling PDO and AMO happening now. A quiet sun…

    You can believe the data. It’s ok.

  130. Some Contemporay data from the great state of WA:

    SEA-TAC WA MARCH TO DATE 3-16-09

    NOAA DATA, Deg. F

    AVERAGE MONTHLY: 40.6 TOTAL FOR MONTH: 2.65 (precip) 1 = FOG OR MIST
    DPTR FM NORMAL: -4.8 DPTR FM NORMAL: 0.71 (precip) 2 = FOG REDUCING VISIBILITY
    HIGHEST: 57 ON 2, 1 GRTST 24HR 0.69 ON 15-15 TO 1/4 MILE OR LESS
    LOWEST: 26 ON 11

    MARCH TO DATE DPTR FM NORMAL: -4.8

    FEB DPTR FM NORMAL: -1.8

    JAN DPTR FM NORMAL: -1.9

    DEC DPTR FM NORMAL: -3.8

    Brrr – Usually the daffodils are blooming and the cherry blossoms are starting to show by now. My chives started three weeks ago and stopped at almost an inch high.

    Crystal Mountain has got 7 feet of snow in the last two weeks.

    If global warming does indeed wane for the long term, as some recent studies suggest, I will miss it.

    Climate change for ya.

    PS – Congrats Mr. Watts, and thanks for your tireless efforts

  131. “UK Sceptic (05:43:39) : I love the smell of panicking warmists in the morning…”

    Good one! Funny too! It does smell like victory, doesn’t it!

  132. “UPDATE: The author’s claim of breaking a record by -12 degrees may be in error. I’m checking and will make an update this evening. – Anthony”

    I had read it was broken by -14, not -12.

    I’ll be looking for what Anthony finds in the data.

  133. Just Want Truth… (17:35:07) :

    “UK Sceptic (05:43:39) : I love the smell of panicking warmists in the morning…”

    Good one! Funny too! It does smell like victory, doesn’t it!

    I wouldn’t pop the champange corks yet. CAP and Trade is still on the agenda, and it will be a pyrrhic ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory ) victory if we drop into another maunder minimum and Little (or not so little) Ice Age

  134. Just Want Truth… (17:08:18) :

    ” Richard (04:41:58) : ‘one swallow does not make a summer’.”

    I think you guys can drop saying this by now. There’s been a cooling trend in the earth since 2004 (really since 1998 ;) ) and it’s continuing. There’s been record cold reported for more than two years. Cooling PDO and AMO happening now. A quiet sun…

    You can believe the data. It’s ok.

    I keep reading about the AMO shifting cool – but I haven’t seen a link to any evidence.

    Could someone please supply a link.

    Thanks in advance. G

  135. “Graeme Rodaughan (18:38:02) : I wouldn’t pop the champange corks yet.”

    I didn’t. Here’s the movie scene that the line is from :

    One day this war will end too.

  136. Grhm. Cracker needs a link.

    I think a killer link w/depository is due by now…

    In my opinion, the climate sciences are cool and fun to follow. We all know that climate science is not resolved. In my humble opinion, climate science is far from fact. Thus no consensus.

    As a civil guy, I have to study the geotechnical angles at times. I have to study the drainage characteristics of the formation, the creations of which I am convinced, are chaotic on the earth’s surface. Thus I have to contend the atmosphere is also chaotic, thus two chaotic forces creating our environment. I never knew we could model chaotic phenomena.

    Climate models seem no more accurate than guestimates, uneducated guesses at that.

    In fact, hasn’t Lucia falsified 95% of the models?

  137. Heh. A tad off topic, but since Gaia has come up in several posts… Lovelock should hook up with Michael Behe and William Dembski. A match made in, err… Heaven.

    OA

  138. Robin Kral (20:02:57) :

    “Gaia my ass. I’ll believe Earth is an organism when it splits into two daughter Earths.”

    Very funny…but don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    Dismissing the possibility that the Earth behaves as a sort of superorganism is almost as silly as considering it something that has the ability to reproduce.

    Perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle.

    As you can tell, with my screen name, conservationism is extremely important to me. Yet I don’t buy (at all) the Mann hockey stick..neither do I accept the AGW orthodoxy.

    There is some truth in the Gaia idea. To throw it out completely…is just as foolish as to expect Earth to split by some mitosis as you say.

    Back to TOPIC: Are the record minima in Alberta at least partially corellated by the super stratospheric warming event of late Jan early February?

    Did the heating stratosphere SQUEEZE the troposphere down onto North America…and this combined with the gathering effects of a cold PDO….help tip the scales to what we have before us today?

    Chris
    Norfolk, VA

  139. EJ: “Climate models seem no more accurate than guestimates, uneducated guesses at that.”

    Worse than that. A guess might have been right, by sheer luck. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, eh? The models were all written with the intent of proving Anthropogenic Global Warming in Edmonton is real. No big surprise that that’s what they seem to do. Heck, I could construct a model that will prove Edmonton is inhabited by little green men and women from Mars, even though that is obviously false. (They’re blue with cold.) Don’t ask to see the code; it’s proprietary.

  140. savethesharks wrote:

    Here is some more good info on the AMO. It is still in its warm phase, so not to be confused with the cold phase of its bigger cousin, the PDO.

    http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources/oceanography-book/oceananddrought.html

    Interesting, but the data there doesn’t include anything later than 2005. According to NOAA, AMO apparently went negative in 2009 with January at -0.007 and February -0.113.

    http://www.cdc.noaa.gov/data/correlation/amon.us.data

  141. Once again, Mr. Gunter has demonstrated himself a gentleman. At about 5:00 p.m. my time EDST, he sent me an update stating that he had checked our sources and acknowledged that the records were somewhat overstated in his article. He really didn’t have to do that. Somewhat uncharacteristically, I refrained from suggesting that he might want to publicly acknowledge that and give some credit to WUWT for the correction. His original point, though, is that record highs are proof of AGW, while lows are met with deafening silence remains true. Anthony, maybe you ought to reach out to the guy.

    DJ/EJ – are you the same chimp that goes by TCO on other sites?

  142. savethesharks (20:16:46) :
    Katherine (20:45:11) :

    Thanks guys, that data really drops off the cliff over the last few months.

    Cheers G

  143. Katherine wrote: Interesting, but the data there doesn’t include anything later than 2005. According to NOAA, AMO apparently went negative in 2009 with January at -0.007 and February -0.113.

    Against the means yes….but this oscillation is over many years, if not decades.

    Certainly it has reached its peak…and perhaps IS on the downturn….but not in the tanks like the full-blown all-out negative of the PDO….yet.

    Emphasize the word “yet”.

    http://digitaldiatribes.wordpress.com/2008/12/23/a-look-at-the-atlantic-multidecadal-oscillation-amo-index/

    CHRIS
    Norfolk, VA

  144. So….Back to TOPIC: Are the record minima in Alberta at least partially corellated by the super stratospheric warming event of late Jan early February?

    Did the heating stratosphere SQUEEZE the troposphere down onto North America…and this combined with the gathering effects of a cold PDO….help tip the scales to what we have before us today?

    Chris
    Norfolk, VA

  145. James Hansen is due in Coventry UK for a demo on thursday. The weather has been nice so far rthis week, but apparently thursday it’s going to break.

    The Gore-Hansen effect strikes again?

  146. Regardless of how you define it, it was a cold winter, and its far from over.

    I don’t think there was one stretch where we had “Keep your Eye on the Idaho High” at play. Instead the bit of moderation we saw was with a flat jet stream (?). Maybe I never paid attention to that detail but I just don’t remember it being like this even during the cold in the 70’s and with this March coming in like a Lion like it did … this winter is definately on par with those. I’m not sure about a record but it bounces around so much that’s possible … heck when I was a sprout I walked to school in 6 feet of snow, up hill both ways in -40 with …

    Only 40 more to go :D … unfortunately capped off with ice … before it trends the right way.

  147. We’re freezing here in Alberta. Everyone is really tired of winter this year.

    If it would help, I’d run out and buy the biggest gas-guzzling SUV – but then sensible people know that CO2 is not a significant driver of global warming.

    This freezing, unending cold is not unprecedented – it was almost this cold in the 1970’s, and it wasn’t fun then either.

    This winter was brought to you by the words “natural” and “cyclical”, and by the number “minus 40″.

    Regards, Allan

  148. lol so the headline is “March low temperature records not broken”… and “Original article a total fraud based on sloppy research and the desire to spread misinformation about climate.”

    When will you chance the comment “The author’s (Lorne Gunter) claim of breaking a record by -12 degrees is only partially correct.” to the more correct:

    “The author’s (Lorne Gunter) claim of breaking a record by -12 degrees is completely fabricated and I apologise to my dedicated readers that I let this one slip through the net as it makes my site look as though it could just be about spreading ~snip~ misinformation.”

  149. In fact I’ll go further… you HAVE to admit that letting this one through without the slightest check of the easily obtainable temperature records is pretty sloppy. Especially given the kind of rigour you apply to UHI, Anatrctic temps, hockey sticks… the list goes on…

    One may even believe that the original article is so badly researched that it is an AGW plant to expose the hungry sceptical blogs like your own and say Andrew Bolt’s in Australia. The 1st response to the original article in the Edmonton paper immediately highlights the error… how did you miss it – it was not even a click away!

    Just ‘fess up you were very very very sloppy and commit to not being so gullible in the future.

    Seriously this is a GOLD MEDAL mistake and one I hope the blogosphere crucifies.

  150. Re: MattB (04:57:34) :
    The “first comment on the Edmonton Journal article” is actually the last comment, and is dated after 10pm last night. This story has been here for over a day…

    p.s. Rachel/charlie98 should really get the credit for finding the correct records from env. Canada before I did (1972 and 2003 both hit the record of -42.2)…;)

  151. “Robin Kral (20:02:57) : Gaia my ass. I’ll believe Earth is an organism when it splits into two daughter Earths.”

    Which planet will be the dad? And if no planet fesses up will we have to run a DNA test to find which one it was?

    Or will it be parthenogenesis? ;)

  152. “Katherine (20:45:11) :”

    Thanks for pointing this out. It saved me the effort–phew!

  153. “tallbloke (22:45:57) : James Hansen is due in Coventry UK for a demo on thursday. The weather has been nice so far rthis week, but apparently thursday it’s going to break. The Gore-Hansen effect strikes again?”

    I can’t say what the weather will be but one thing I know you can expect is a very small turn out to see James Hansen.

  154. Anthony, please *do* continue posting articles like this one to WUWT. I think it is essential that we read and discuss what is actually being reported. We are all learning to say, “Hey, what’s up with that?!” You’re doing a magnificent job of increasing awareness and understanding; I learn something new from WUWT every day. No docile sheep here! Thank you for sharing your time, wisdom, and humor.

  155. I think temperature records are always related to the same day of the month or year in the past at least that’s how it gets reported around here.
    We had unusually warm weather the first week of November and you should have seen the media frenzy pointing out the unusual warm weather over and over again with polls on there web pages asking the public if they think its related to GW or not.
    I didn’t see a poll in the media in recent days asking people if GW is no longer happening.

  156. It’s kinda like the “’90s were warmest decade in the 20th century and we will never admit that the ’30s were! So there!”

  157. Lorne Gunter’s a hack and a windbag. I take anything he says or writes with a huge grain of salt, regardless of the topic.

    Sadly, the Edmonton Journal is my daily read as I live in the hinterland outside Edmonton.

    And I will say that I find the unwillingness of winter to recede and conceded to spring this year a bit depressing. Right now, the sun is hot enough to melt the (vast amounts of) snow, even at an air temperature of -10 C. Something is screwy and I’m tired of shovelling snow. I want it to melt, already.

  158. MattB (04:57:34) :
    Seriously this is a GOLD MEDAL mistake and one I hope the blogosphere crucifies.”

    Please come down off your high horse for a moment – do you get so worked up about any incorrect reported and exaggerations that pass for the MSM’s daily rubbish on AGW? No, I didn’t think so.

    And it is not a gold medal mistake, its not even on the first page of results.

    You will notice that Anthony has posted an update correction, something most media outlets don’t bother with. And it was still a record low for that day despite your vitriolic attitude.

  159. Well here wishing ya’ll an “AGW” version of the Irish blessing.

    Pretty hilarious and worth repeated again and again. PAMELA GRAY gets the credit:

    AGW Irish Wish

    May the seas fall to leave you high and dry.

    May the wind always blow up your skirt and chill your cheeks.

    May sun shine…okay, forget sun shine…
the snow fall soft into your dread locks,

    …and until we meet again,
    
may Gaiai (or whatever the hell her name is),
    hold your feet to the icecube for mocking her.

    Ha ha ha Pamela I had to post it thanks again.

    Chris
    Norfolk, VA

    OK….back to topic….agreed on what Neil Crafter wrote above. Anthony made a correction as soon as he learned so what is the big deal?? Still shows record cold.

  160. Chris could you imagine the lampooning here if a warmist site ran a major headline because such and such was the warmest October 2, or the warmest 9:30 on the second thursday after Easter…. it is a meaningless record… totally meaningless. The article ONLY got a run here because it claimed a total March record by a staggeringly large amount… and that turned out to be bulldust, and Whatzits insistance on still running with it with a minor correction that still suggests it is a meaningful record, AFTER being prompted, exposes him as a fraud IMO.

  161. Matt…..Interesting point and I see how the bias can affect it….but not “totally meaningless” as you say.

    No the Alberta readings are still indicator of cooling….no matter how benign as compared to the original report (Ask anyone who has had to endure this winter there).

    And if the PDO has its way over the next few years in the same region…it is not going to get any better.

    So we will see and time will tell. But I see your point….yet such discrepancies do not expose anybody as a fraud….just missing the mark a bit

    It is not all or nothing. There are degrees to everything. And failing to recognize those degrees are the twin achilles heels of the AGW movement or the reverse.

    The truth is somewhere in between (but not close at all to Al Gore or James Hansen views….at all…LOL).

    Chris
    Norfolk, VA

  162. MattB
    I don’t suppose calling the proprietor of this website “a fraud” is a very nice thing. I am very surprised that got through the moderators and I would like to call their attention to it. Perhaps you might like to take your particular brand of vitriol to another website where the proprietor meets your lofty standards of ethical behaviour.

    And who exactly are you to do that hiding behind the anonymity of your chosen moniker? The courage of your convictions? At least be prepared to back it up using your full name.

    And a record is a record, regardless of whether it is for a day or a month. If you were there in Edmonton maybe you would not consider it “totally meaningless”. You might think it was bloody cold though, regardless of your point of view.

    Reply: We allow vitriol to a point and as moderators we try and stay neutral. ~ charles the moderator

  163. Matt – quit flogging a dead horse. The mistake was pointed out and corrected. The issue of anecdotal reports of cooling events has been discussed here before, and they are somewhat controversial. However, the evidence of a cooling trend is mounting. And no, a cooling trend by itself does not refute AGW, but it is one factor among many that do.
    Unfortunately, your comments, particularly those denigrating Anthony do not put you in a good light here, and brand you as an ideologue. Perhaps you can redeem yourself on one of the other, more science-based topics, but I rather doubt you will.

  164. I simply put it to you that this website would not have bothered posting a link to a report in the Edmonton Journal that had “March 10 colder in Edmonton than March 10 has ever been, but not as cold as it has been before on other days in March” as its headline.

    The correction of a reputable science based skeptic would have been “Correction: It appears that the headline of this article was sensationalist and false – it is a pity because I don’t think we need such headlines to make the scientific argument against warming. Sorry we got caught out this time, clearly the type of record set is meaningless in terms of global warming or cooling trends.”

    Maybe “fraud” is a bit harsh… but Mr Watts still has a chance to ‘fess up with a more accurate correction.

    And as for vitriolic… hardly:) I’m simply trying to hold the “Best Science Blog of the Year” winner to account. The lofty standards are clearly his own… it is the Best Science Blog? Am I expecting too much from the “Best Science Blog”… I think not.

    And as for anonymous.. sorry I’ve just always been MattB for years on blogs and forums… a quick google would probably link to who I am if you could be bothered… not that it would mean much? Does my anonymity make the issue at hand any different?

    My guess is the moderators can see how close they are sailing to the wind with this whole thread, and probably agree with me;)

  165. And just to flog the dead horse one more time…

    I note the “correction” states “The previous March record Tmin occurred in 2003 and was -42.2°C”

    Erm no… that is STILL the record, not the “previous” record. Sentence should read “The March Record is -42.2 decC” or am I too picky on the “Best Science Blog”?

  166. now here is a newsworthy record from 2008:

    “Alberta-Wide Scorcher
    Scorching heat shot the mercury up to an all-time record high of 35.6°C at Edmonton International Airport on August 18, eclipsing the previous all-time daily high of 35.3°C, set on August 5, 1998.” and that is Edmonton wide!

    http://www.ec.gc.ca/doc/smc-msc/2008/r4_eng.html

  167. From the same site but “top weather stories for 2007″:

    “Edmonton International Airport recorded its highest average July temperature at 18.4°C, eclipsing the high mark set only last year.”

    wow where was this hack journo then?

  168. MattB,

    Where are you now?

    You can believe the IPCC all you want; you can select one particular time in one location and pretend that global temperatures are increasing.

    But they’re not. The’re falling, and not just a little bit, or over a short time frame: click

    Global warming is a fantasy, promoted by grant-seeking opportunists and constantly repeated by the gullible.

  169. why would you be interested in Jan – Oct if you were looking at long term temps?

    What pray tell just what does your post have to do with the FACT that the linked Edmonton Journal article is just making stuff up, and most likely deliberatively false.

    If you are not appalled by the articles blatant inaccuracies… then I suggest you are not a sceptic.

  170. Perhaps the following table will illustrate how much cooling has taken place during the past several winters in the Edmonton region or the NORTHWESTERN FOREST region as used by ENVIORNMENT CANADA. Figures are comparison to the 1948-2009 trend and cover the months of december, january and february only

    2006 winter-2 nd warmest [+6.5c]
    2007 winter-10 th warmest[+3.7c]
    2008 winter – 36 th warmest [+0.6C]
    2009 winter-42 nd warmest [-0.6C]

    For comparison 1972 was the second coldest at [-4.5C]
    1950 was the coldest winter at {-5.5C]

    All these are during years when PDO was NEGATIVE or in the cool phase

    The message here is that we are not yet experiencing record cold for the entire winer for the entire region but as the PDO extends for 20-30 years, we may. Currently we are already having isolated records lasting shorter periods only as posted by Gunter.

  171. All you folks who are so fond of talking about “average” temperatures don’t know what you are talking about. In a dynamic system such as the Earth’s climate, such terms are meaningless. It’s like saying “the average speed of all automobiles on the planet is 57.4 km/h.” Which cars are you timing? Do you time the ones in parking lots? Do you time the ones traveling at midnight vs those stuck in traffic jams in Manhattan?

    If you are going to talk “average” you need to be very specific as to what average means AND how it is calculated. Hint: The average speed of a car traveling at 40 km/h for an hour and then 60 km/h for the next hour is not 50 km/h.

    There is absolutely no way anyone can know what the average temperature of the Earth is. And then, there is the other issue of, even if we do know what the average temperature is, what SHOULD the average temperature be? Should it never vary from that average?

  172. JFrykman (12:09:13)
    >If you are going to talk “average” you need to be very specific as to what average means AND how it is calculated. Hint: The average speed of a car traveling at 40 km/h for an hour and then 60 km/h for the next hour is not 50 km/h.

    Perhaps you should read your own problem statement. If you travel at 40km/h for one hour, and 60km/h for one hour, you will travel 100km in 2 hours, or 50km/h.

    However, if you travel 120km at 40km/h and 120km at 60km/h, you will have traveled 240km in 5 hours, or a 48km/h average. This is a quite different problem statement from yours.

  173. Matt v that is global warming for you…. the blogosphere erupts when in fact there have been 18 colder winters since 1948.

  174. mattB
    You have again misunderstood the data posted.
    No one is claiming that the entire 2008-2009 winter in the Edmonton or Nothern Alberta region was the coldest ever. All we are saying is that some short term cold records are already being broken now in this regions.My previous post clearly showed that global warming has stopped for the last two years regionally in this area. [ also in Canda and globally i might add ]. The temperature anomaly dropped from +6.5C in 2006 to -0.6 in 2009 a drop of 7.1 degrees for the entire winter . There is no global warming here ? We could very well during the next decade in Alberta reach even colder temperatures like those in1972 and 1950 which were 5C lower than 2009 for the entire winter

  175. [snip- I'm not interested in your opinions after your rant about me taking the post down a few minutes for editing. An apology from you would be in order first. When Mr. Gunter posts a correction I'll make it known here, until then I think it is quite clear - Anthony]

  176. Sure I do apologise if I have offended you Anthony. it may be wordplay but I was actually challenging you to be brave and honest – I had no idea you were compelled to remove blog posts to edit them, or might have expected that if a post was mid-edit you could easily put in red “BLOG BEING UPDATED” at the top.

    Sure I may have been being a bit of a smart ass at times… but if you don;t keep a tab on articles like this you risk becoming less credible than I have the feeling you would like.

    The Edmonton article is bulldust and makes up a sensationalist headline to grab blog attention. “Edmonton has 3rd coldest say in 48 years” is a headline worthy of a local rag as a point of interest.

    REPLY: When I edit in the evening, I often take posts offline because I have young children about, and sometimes I am pulled away from the computer for several minutes or longer. I’ve been burnt before by the autosave feature of WordPress putting up a half edited post. Putting it offline in these conditions prevents an incomplete presentation, but risks overreaction from people like yourself that are looking for changes. Catch-22. No more edits will be made until I hear from Mr. Gunter. I have a new email address for him so hopefully that will be soon. Feel free to discuss anything else on any other part of the blog until then. – Anthony

  177. young kids… that is what I blame for being a less than patient blogger these days;) I must say I think the post reads in a perfectly acceptable manner now. I don’t think gunter’s post needs/deserves updating – he can be judged by it. It is a shame there are 50 or so sceptical blogs out there without similar clarification of his claims… but this is the best one so a good place to start.

    I hope you understand that, like you, I enjoy diverse scientific opinions, but if I see something as a crock I’ll speak up and not accept unacceptable explanations. but unlike a religious believer from either side I WILL stop when I think fairness is restored. So I’m happy to say sorry I annoyed you and jumped to conclusions on the removal of this entry, and also to say good on ya for the corrections.

  178. Brush fires in Australia, whilst the hottest temperates were recorded where the fires were, according to Australian climate specialists the reason why the fires dragged on so long was lack of precipitation caused by low sea temperatures in the Pacific. Low sea temperature means no evaporation and therefore no rain.

    Just add this extra component to the long list of adjustments that the profilers continually need to make to their software in a vain attempt to predict what may happen when humanity has at last become extinct.

    I am really looking forward to the today when I am spared having to read any more of Al Gores twaddle, why cant they do what most failed American politicians do find religion, Oh Sorry!

  179. From WordPress help:
    Autosave on Published Content

    “If you are editing a post or page that has already been published, autosave continues to work, but it will not overwrite any of the published content. The changes will not be displayed on the blog until you click the Update Post/Page button in the Publish module. You can find the last autosave, if there is one, and other post revisions in the Post Revisions Module. “

    So I don’t see why you have to take a post down to update it. Perhaps there used to be a problem when the Autosave feature was first introduced, but I’m not aware of one now.

  180. Global warming is now a religion, and you know how religions can prove everything about their religion is true, well that’s what is happening to the Global Warming sect. As in…all weather proves Global Warming, no matter what the weather.

  181. .

    >>Interesting that a country “where it never rains anymore”
    >>is not shown as having a drought by the
    >>Australian Bureau of Meteorology.

    Australia’s problem is not a lack of rains, but short memories and too many people. Australia has long had droughts, but the new demands on water resources by the expanding population is pushing resources over a tipping-point.

    We need population control, not CO2 control.

    .

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