Fine in Theory: A Rejoinder to Richard Lyon

From Tilak’s Substack

Richard Lyon makes a thoughtful case for preparing early for the end of cheap oil. But every obstacle he names is a government failure, not a market failure – and his remedy is more government.

Tilak Doshi

Richard Lyon opens his reply to my review of The Energy Trap with the old joke about the senior economist who frowns at a proposal and asks whether something that works in practice also works in theory. It is a good joke, and a generous reply. Lyon concedes that his claim that a $120 barrel is viable if the average is $60 was wrong. He withdraws “not real oil” as interview shorthand. He grants that the book’s line that “the arithmetic is already done” is stronger than he needs. Few authors are so candid in what they are willing to reconsider, a standard that all authors would do well to emulate.

What remains is the heart of Lyon’s case. Cheap oil is running down; the price signal will arrive too late to act on; so governments must start building the replacement now, with public money, as “insurance”. Let me turn his joke around. Planning ahead of the market works beautifully in theory. Does it work in practice?

Physics With Degrees of Freedom

Lyon rests his case on physics. Oil is finite, so once the size of the resource is fixed, the rest is arithmetic. But the arithmetic is only as good as its inputs, and the input that matters most – how much oil will ultimately be recovered – is not a constant of nature. It depends on price, technology and access. A Hubbert curve has degrees of freedom: the assumed ultimate recovery, the shape of the curve, the number of peaks. Change any of them and the date moves, by decades even. Lyon himself concedes that forecasters who counted all oil got their dates wrong.

That uncertainty is where the real decisions are made. When do high prices signal that it is time to invest, and invest in what – deepwater, shale, enhanced recovery, coal conversion, nuclear? If nuclear, which emerging technology – SMRs, molten salt, etc.? These questions fall on those who commit capital: owners betting their own money, or managers with a fiduciary duty to the owners. Being wrong costs them or their shareholders. So they are, rightly, sceptical of anyone who confidently predicts the future from a model and asks them to act on it. Their caution is not myopia. It is the discipline that comes from bearing the cost of error – a discipline no planner faces.

The Far-Sighted Bureaucrat

Lyon’s argument is not new. In the 1980s it was made on behalf of Japan’s Ministry of International Trade and Industry (MITI), whose patient, far-sighted planning was held up against myopic American investors fixated on quarterly results. Chalmers Johnson’s MITI and the Japanese Miracle (1982) hailed Japan as the best example of a state-guided market system.

MITI’s actual record of picking winners is less flattering. In the early 1960s it sought to consolidate the car industry and restrict new entrants; Honda rushed into car-making before the door closed. Its Fifth-Generation Computer project, launched in 1982 to leapfrog the world in artificial intelligence, ended as a commercial failure. Beason and Weinstein found that Japanese industrial targeting between 1955 and 1990 flowed disproportionately to slow-growing sectors.

The problem was not that MITI’s officials were stupid. It was Hayek’s knowledge problem: no ministry can gather the dispersed information that prices convey, and no official bears the losses when the bet goes wrong. Lyon concedes the knowledge problem is real, but says his test is physical, not a planner’s preference: does an investment permanently reduce dependence on hydrocarbons? What does “permanently reduce dependence” actually mean in practice, in decisions made by investors in competing and divergent technologies? Yet somebody must apply that test – decide which projects pass, at what cost, how fast and with whose money. That somebody is a ministry. Public money to build reactors “early” is MITI’s far-sightedness with uranium in place of semiconductors.

Where Is the Market Failure?

A case for public money needs a market failure: a reason why private investors systematically misjudge the future. Lyon’s candidate is timing – a nuclear fleet takes 15 years, a price spike takes a month. But the people with the most to gain from anticipating scarcity are the owners of the oil. As Harold Hotelling showed in 1931, an owner who expects prices to rise faster than the rate of interest leaves oil in the ground. Expected scarcity is priced today, in reserves held back, in futures curves and in asset values. Owners of oil reserves are – or have to be — among the most far-sighted investors in the economy.

Nor is the 15 years a law of physics. Lyon himself agrees that regulation, not physics, explains much of the gap between Korea’s $2,200 per kilowatt and Vogtle’s roughly $10,000 or higher cost. When Washington changed the rules, things moved. Under the Department of Energy’s Reactor Pilot Program, set up by executive order in May 2025, four privately built test reactors had reached criticality by early July 2026, one of them about 150 days after its project began. These are small test units, not gigawatt plants, but the lesson stands: the timetable is set by the regulator. Lyon has identified a government failure, and the remedy for government failure is not more government.

We can all agree that nuclear power is among the most promising, energy-dense technologies we have. Agreeing on that does not settle how the investment should be made. Will owners and shareholders, weighing their own money against their own judgement of risk, decide the pace and character of nuclear investment – which designs by which companies, where, how fast? Or will planners, who allegedly know when oil and gas will run out, decide for them? A ministry that gets the date wrong loses nothing. Taxpayers and private investors do.

The Hospital and the Diamond

Lyon defends energy return on energy invested (EROI) through what he calls “biophysical economics”: energy contributes far more to output than its share of costs, just as fuel is a small line in a hospital’s budget, yet the hospital stops without it. But this is just another way stating that energy demand is inelastic and the consumer surplus large. The amount we spend on energy – its share of costs – measures energy at the margin. It does not measure how much we depend on it in toto. The gap between what we would pay for the next glass of water rather than go without water altogether – in other words, the diamond-water paradox again – is what economists call the consumer surplus. For an input with no ready substitute – like certain forms of energy – it is very large. A small cost share and a large dependence are entirely consistent. Mainstream economics has no need of a new school to see that. A large consumer surplus does not make energy the only scarce factor of production, which is what EROI implicitly assumes; an energy theory of value makes no more sense than Marx’s labour theory of value. As EROI falls, the price needed to justify a barrel rises, as Lyon notes. Precisely – and that price is what calls forth new supply, efficiency and substitutes.

Prices Damp, Quantities Adjust

Lyon corrects my use of Samuelson’s Le Chatelier principle, citing Milgrom and Roberts: long-run responses exceed short-run ones. That holds for quantities – long-run demand is more elastic than short-run demand. But it implies the opposite of what he needs. Because quantities adjust more over time, prices need adjust less. A supply shock produces a sharp price spike in the short run, which is then damped as producers and consumers respond over the medium and long term. That is dampening feedback, not a runaway spiral.

The hog cycle rests on farmers forecasting tomorrow’s price from today’s. It was in the hog market that John Muth, introducing rational expectations in 1961, showed that producers forecast far better than that. Oil has deep futures markets, and James Hamilton has said shale’s quick response should make future oil shocks smaller. His ten recessions out of eleven followed largely geopolitical disruptions, and other economists blame much of the damage on the Federal Reserve’s reaction. That is politics and monetary policy, not geology.

New Provinces, Old Policies

Lyon says the 1970s cures worked only once: the North Sea and Alaska are long past their peaks. How much of that is policy? Britain imposes a 78 per cent headline tax rate on North Sea producers, and the government has committed to issue no licences to explore new fields. Alaska’s Arctic coastal plain, which the US Geological Survey thinks may hold 4.25 to 11.8 billion barrels of recoverable oil, was only reopened to leasing in October 2025 in President Trump’s second term focused on “energy dominance”. A province shut by politicians tells us nothing about geology.

Meanwhile new reserves keep appearing. Guyana went from no oil in 2019 to over 900,000 barrels a day in 2026. Brazil’s pre-salt fields, hidden beneath thick salt until seismic imaging improved, now supply 82 per cent of Petrobras’s record output. The Permian Basin, once written off, surpassed its 1973 peak in 2017. Hubbert curves can have second peaks.

Consider, too, how little of the shale resource is being tapped. Shale drillers recover only an estimated 4 to 6 per cent of the oil in place, and the US Department of Energy’s National Energy Technology Laboratory puts recovery from multi-fractured horizontal wells at under 10 per cent, typically nearer five. More than nine barrels in ten stay in the rock. That is roughly where conventional oil once stood. Primary production from a conventional reservoir typically recovers about 10 per cent of the oil in place; water and gas injection lift that to 20–40 per cent, and tertiary methods to 30–60 per cent or more.

Shale has barely begun that journey. Operators are already experimenting with cyclic gas injection – “huff and puff” – and one Eagle Ford lease showed a 35 per cent improvement in recovery over five cycles. Even modest gains on so large a base would add vast volumes. None of this shows up in a Hubbert curve drawn with today’s technology, because tomorrow’s technology is precisely what such curves leave out.

This puts Höök, Hirsch and Aleklett’s study of giant field declines in perspective. Their study covers individual giant fields, not world supply, and their own data show that decline rates diverged after 1985 because new technology revived giant fields in the Middle East and Russia. Their 2009 warning of a mounting supply challenge was followed by world supply rising to some 106 million barrels a day in 2025.

Nor are oil and gas the only hydrocarbons. It is true that oil cannot again be pushed out of power generation; it has already gone. But the world’s proved coal reserves would last well over a century at current output, and America’s recoverable reserves some four centuries. Coal can be liquefied and gasified to make much of what oil and gas now supply. Sasol’s Secunda complex makes up to 150,000 barrels a day of fuel from coal, and China converted some 276 million tons of coal into oil, gas and chemicals in 2024. Whether cheap nuclear heat or coal conversion or something not yet invented may one day make synthetic hydrocarbons competitive for ships, planes and heavy transport nuclear-made fuels wins is precisely the bet that should be made by those who carry its risk. Not planners with no skin in the game.

Hayek’s Cycle Cuts the Other Way

Lyon enlists Hayek’s theory of the business cycle against shale. But artificially cheap credit distorts investment towards long-gestation, capital-intensive projects. This refers to Hayek’s “roundabout” methods of production – whose value is most sensitive to the rate of interest. Shale is the opposite. A well is drilled and producing within months and, because output falls steeply in the first year, as Lyon himself notes, it yields most of its oil within a few years. A conventional field trapped in a reservoir structure is a different animal: years of exploration, appraisal and construction before first oil, then decades of production. Hamilton notes the very long lag between investment and output in deepwater. Interest rates affected conventional oil far more than unconventional oil.

The bankruptcies of 2020 transferred assets to new owners at a loss to creditors; the oil remained “real” despite the haircuts received by the original owners. Lyon now accepts that shale pays at around $65 a barrel. What best fits Hayek’s description of malinvestment? A 15-year, publicly financed reactor programme – the most interest-sensitive investment of all – justified as insurance against a date nobody can name.

Simon’s Master Resource

Lyon notes that 1980, the base year of the Simon Abundance Index, was a peak year for oil prices, and cites Kiel and colleagues, who found Ehrlich would have won most ten-year bets over the past century. Pooley and Tupy, using time prices and excluding war years, found Simon would have won about 70 per cent of the time. By Lyon’s own figures a barrel cost about five and a half hours of American work in 1980 and about two in 2025. If this is an “energy trap”, it is a comfortable one – as I argued some years ago about the brave new world of ample oil.

Julian Simon called energy the master resource, and Lyon says the condition – cheap energy – carries the whole argument. Agreed. Which is why the real threat to cheap energy is policy that makes it dear: punitive North Sea taxes, drilling bans and nuclear licensing that turns five-year projects into fifteen-year ones. Lyon invokes the Cambridge economic historian Sir Tony Wrigley who showed how coal offered England an escape from the limits of an organic economy of wood, muscle and harvest. But that escape was made by private miners, ironmasters and engineers responding to prices, not by a ministry planning a managed descent.

The Finitude

Lyon and I agree that oil is finite in some ultimate sense (taking technology and human ingenuity into account), that nuclear power deserves a far larger role, and that regulation, not physics, stands in its way. We part company on the remedy. His case for planning rests on a timetable that physics does not fix with certainty and on obstacles that governments created. His cure is to hand the same governments (or their appointed experts) the job of choosing the winners. The history of governments or their experts picking winners is a rather slim one, and Japan’s MITI showed how that tends to work in practice.

Lyon closes by hoping that “preparing early” works in theory as well as in practice. The question is who prepares and on whose behalf? If it means anyone apart from those putting their own or their shareholders’ capital at risk, then beware! Clear the regulatory path, let market prices do their work, let untrammelled investors invest — limited by the usual limits of common law like fraud or externalities — and the “energy trap” may prove, like peak oil before it, a date that keeps receding.

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35 Comments
Scissor
November 10, 2026 6:13 am

We need matter and energy. Fortunately for us, nature provides both in the form of hydrocarbons, with ample supply for generations to come.

Reply to  Scissor
November 10, 2026 7:46 am

Providentially, we will have all the energy (power) that we need:
Near-term — Carbon (Hydrocarbon Minerals)
Mid-term — Uranium (Thorium … for nuclear reactors)
Long-term — Hydrogen (Deuterium-Lithium… stellar furnaces)
— Freeman Dyson* [paraphrased for today, +55 years later]
*foundational 1971 Scientific American essay, “Energy in the Universe”.
P.S. Later, he was also fond of solar / photosynthesis, e.g. palm-tree orchards, genetically engineered to store vegetable oils in their roots.

November 10, 2026 6:26 am

“Cheap oil is running down; the price signal will arrive too late to act on….”

I vaguely recall that Kissinger suggested to the Iranians to raise the price of oil. Maybe it was during their war with Iraq? The price per barrel was something like $4. Then they listened and raised an order of magnitude. I’ve always suspect that there’s so much oil out there that if the price was really based on supply and demand, it would crash back to maybe $30. In this ideal world both Russia and Iran and Venezuela and everyone else would be free to sell their oil. Of course this would only be true if there is no OPEC- so busting OPEC should be a priority!

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
November 10, 2026 7:52 am

If we fixed light-sweet crude at $42 per bbl ($1.00 per imperial gallon), then we’d solve a separate problem: a fiat currency replaced by the gold standard (Black Gold, that is; Texas Tea)
Your “busting OPEC” <=> NOPEC:

The No Oil Producing and Exporting Cartels Act (NOPEC) is a U.S. congressional bill introduced repeatedly over multiple decades that seeks to amend the Sherman Antitrust Act to make oil-producing and exporting cartels illegal

Scarecrow Repair
Reply to  Whetten Robert L
November 10, 2026 9:56 am

And if we fixed unicorn farts at $eleventy billion apiece, we’d all be stinking rich.

MarkW
Reply to  Whetten Robert L
November 10, 2026 1:04 pm

Tell me. How exactly does a US law make a cartel made up of foreign governments, illegal?

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
November 10, 2026 8:07 am

OPEC produces about 35% of global oil, and about 50% of traded oil. However, its member violate its own agreements so often that its effects on oil prices is significantly dampened. In other words, OPEC isn’t the priority problem.

MarkW
Reply to  Willy
November 10, 2026 1:05 pm

The higher oil prices get, the more incentive OPEC members have to cheat.

MarkW
Reply to  MarkW
November 10, 2026 1:06 pm

The more some OPEC members cheat, the more the remaining ones are forced to cheat as well.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
November 10, 2026 12:32 pm

The price of oil as we know it is actually set in the oil futures market. An oil futures contract is a binding agreement that gives one the right to purchase oil by the barrel at a predefined price on a predefined date in the future. Under a futures contract, both the buyer and the seller are obligated to fulfill their side of the transaction on the specified date.

Supply and demand have little to do with it except as a confidence factor for those dealing in the futures markets.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/08/determining-oil-prices.asp#:~:text=The%20Bottom%20Line,sentiment%20toward%20the%20physical%20product.

MarkW
Reply to  Sparta Nova 4
November 10, 2026 1:13 pm

The spot market is a market whereby buyers and sellers trade oil with short horizons. The spot market reacts almost instantly to changes in the economic/political climate.
The long term markets ALWAYS react to changes in the short term market. Not instantly of course, but inevitably.

Reply to  Sparta Nova 4
November 10, 2026 2:37 pm

Fair point that the price prints on the Exchange’s big board. But the Exchange is the messenger, not the message.

Futures don’t make up the price. They collect everyone’s best guess about barrels and burn rates and sum it into one number. That number is supply and demand, intermediated.

On April 20, 2020, the May WTI contract settled at -$37. Confidence wasn’t the problem. Demand had cratered, Cushing was nearly full, and anyone long at expiry had to either take oil they couldn’t store or pay someone to take it. The futures market didn’t override supply and demand. It reported them, loudly.

So the futures price is a forecast, and the fundamentals set that forecast. The exchange gives you a better, faster, more liquid price, and it takes the fundamentals’ word for what’s real. When it’s wrong, the physical market corrects it.

A note on usage: a futures contract is a binding obligation on both sides. An option is binding on one side — it gives the buyer a right, not an obligation. Most of both are closed out financially rather than settled in barrels. So you’re right that trading volume on exchanges is about two orders of magnitude larger than the physical market. But those prices still reflect expected supply and demand as the article up top advises, but its just intermediated through an exchange.

Neil Pryke
November 10, 2026 6:36 am

Have you noticed that Net Zero proponents are like their climate catastrophe forebears..?

If an expected outcome doesn’t materialise, they quietly let deadlines pass, and hope that they can crow another day..?

Why aren’t the major cities of the world all under fathoms of water..? For example…

John Hultquist
Reply to  Neil Pryke
November 10, 2026 8:29 am

The last glacial maximum was about 21,000 years ago, then ice-easy-to-melt began to flow away and the oceans began to rise. This chart …
comment image
… shows the change in sea level. An inflection point began about 7K ago and by 4K years ago the rising became insubstantial.
If there were major cities in existance, now under water, Sayonara. The major cities of the world came on the scene after all “the easy ice” had melted. That’s why they are not underwater and won’t be soon, although some parts of some cities are sinking. 🙂

Denis
Reply to  John Hultquist
November 10, 2026 9:00 am

USGS researchers Larsen and Clark evaluated sea level rise using coastal peat bog accumulations and river sediments on the East coast of the US in their 2006 report “A Search for Scale in Sea-Level Studies.” They found that sea level has been rising at an average rate of 1-2 mm/yr for the past 6,000 years.

Reply to  Denis
November 10, 2026 9:31 am

And people worry about that- as if they don’t have at least 100 things more worrisome, like the rest of us.

Tusten02
November 10, 2026 7:04 am

Cheap energy is the key to overall wealth of a country! Recently. I saw a wealth ranking of European countries with Iceland coming up on top. One essential explanation – the cheap energy they get from the hot water wells below the surface!

strativarius
November 10, 2026 7:53 am

Cheap oil is a thing of the past in the UK. That was the intent of the government.

Reply to  strativarius
November 10, 2026 9:33 am

I suspect the Brits will eventually snap out of the climate delusion and the impoverishment of their nation due to expensive energy- then it’s going to get ugly for those pushing those scams. They’ll be joining Russel Brand in prison.

SxyxS
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
November 10, 2026 10:49 am

lol – Russel Brand is in prison for opposing those pushing the s cam.
He never had these problems as long as he was the Hollywood mainstream Trudeau having Sex with Kate Perry.
Same trick used against Bill Cosby who should have been in prison 4 decades ago, but only became a criminal after he tried to buy a TV corporation – can’t have a black conservative dude pushing black conservative stuff, just as they can’t have Russel Brand with millions of subscribers saying the wrong stuff.

So both got the Assange treatment
and Russel got a decade prison for shit in a country where you can rape thousands of children over decades with zero consequences as long those children are white ;
just as there have never been nor ever will be consequences for a globalist agenda /war pushers.

Kevin Kilty
November 10, 2026 8:27 am

An excellent essay.

Editor
November 10, 2026 9:46 am

I’ll have to add his prediction to my list of people incorrectly predicting the end of oil and gas. The earliest prediction is:

1885, the Pennsylvania State Geologist: “the amazing exhibition of oil was only a ‘temporary and vanishing phenomenon – one which young men will live to see come to its natural end.”

The most recent is:

2005, Chris Skrebowski, editor of the Energy Institute in London Petroleum Review: “We should be worried. Time is short, and we are not even at the point where we admit we have a problem … Governments are always excessively optimistic. The problem is that the peak, which I think is 2008, is tomorrow in planning terms.”

Just the new deepwater basins opened up by new technology (see attached map) could easily supply man’s oil and gas needs for centuries, and let’s not forget the unexplored Zealandia and Ontong Java Plateau. We haven’t even begun to tap Earth’s oil and gas resources. More here:

https://andymaypetrophysicist.com/2018/07/07/the-end-of-oil-and-gas/

oil_gas
SxyxS
Reply to  Andy May
November 10, 2026 10:54 am

Damn it – oil ended 100 years before snow did.
(wonder if this geologist is anyhow related to David Viner?)

I hope the skiing heretics in their synthetic suits are aware of their hybrid heresy.

Stephen Reilly
Reply to  Andy May
November 10, 2026 8:03 pm

In 2009 I read a long and very detailed – maps, graphs and so on – article in a business magazine that ‘proved’ beyond doubt that oil would never go back below $100 a barrel. Ummm.

Richard Mott
November 10, 2026 12:28 pm

“…nuclear power deserves a far larger role, and that regulation, not physics, stands in its way.”
Absolutely true, but the missing part of this argument in both your discussions is that the regulations are based on fear, and that fear is based on an erroneous assumption about the risk of low-level, long term radiation. What we supposedly know about radiation health effects is largely based on the lifetime studies of the survivors of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings – acute doses to a population malnourished at the end of the war. Hermann Muller, in his Nobel acceptance speech for causing mutations in fruit flies with huge doses of X-rays, simply claimed that radiation effects were linear all the way down to zero dose, and there was no “safe” dose. This is known as the Linear No-Threshold (LNT) hypothesis, and has been encoded in regulation not only for radiation, but for chemical carcinogens since the EPA adopted it in 1994.
It is demonstrably wrong. There are a number of accidental or natural examples of long-term exposure to doses significantly above current regulatory limits, and indeed larger than the Fukushima evacuees would have received if they had remained in place, with no detectable ill effects.
I don’t think WUWT allows links, but you can find detailed references in this slide set:
u.pcloud.link (slash) publink(slash) show (question mark) code=XZoyGm5ZNWWcNNy6tF7EoKweLk57VRb5q8KV
Replace items in parentheses with the appropriate character.

Reply to  Richard Mott
November 10, 2026 9:33 pm

WUWT allows posting of URL’s. You should post the correct URL.

Reply to  Harold Pierce
November 10, 2026 10:40 pm

Or, if you’re going to give advice, do it properly.

https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZoyGm5ZNWWcNNy6tF7EoKweLk57VRb5q8KV

MarkW
November 10, 2026 12:55 pm

Price shocks are always caused by political upheaval.

MarkW
November 10, 2026 1:02 pm

Preparing early only works when the problem is well defined, certain and soon.
In the case of peak oil, none are true.

MarkW
Reply to  MarkW
November 10, 2026 1:21 pm

If a problem is well defined and certain but 200 years off, then starting now is not always the best idea, unless the only available solution will take about 200 years to prepare.

If there is a quick solution, starting now just means you have your solution in place for decades, perhaps more than a century, waiting for the problem it was designed to fix to materialize.

The money spent creating the solution is gone, when it could have been used to create wealth and with that greater wealth, you can build your solution sometime in the future and still have everything ready in time.
Or you could build your solution today, but tomorrow someone invents something that makes the problem go away, leaving your efforts as a solution without a problem.

No economists would ever say that moving early is always the best option.

Reply to  MarkW
November 10, 2026 2:56 pm

The problem, though, as the author at the top here explains so well, is that even if there is a problem, well or even merely adequately defined, the actors,‘starting now’ or ‘right after the game’ or ‘as soon as spring arrives’ to work out a solution, will nearly always and everywhere be more successful and more efficacious if they are private entrepreneurs.

People like to talk about ‘market failure’ as the big justification for government intervention — though peak oil is hardly a market failure. Those same chaps don’t like to talk about government failure.

Here’s a couple fun examples: The ‘market failure for sugar’ program was created in 1934. It was meant to be a temporary emergency measure to stabilize sugar prices during the Great Depression. It’s still running, using import quotas, loans, marketing allotments, and tariffs. It operates through supply restrictions and import quotas rather than direct payments, so the cost appears in grocery store prices paid by all of us. There is a similar program for milk, started in 1937 still running today. What do these have in common? Well, dimes and nickels are taken from the many, consolidated into millions and given to crony few. Sounds like EV mandates and solar panels, right?

Reply to  Willy
November 10, 2026 9:46 pm

I remember that the company making Life Savers candy relocated to Canada because sugar was 50% cheaper. Florida sugar cane growers lobbied the Congress for placing quotas and tariffs on import sugar like that from Cuba.

Bob
November 10, 2026 5:10 pm

Take government out of the equation except for light regulation of health, safety and fair competition and our energy problems go away.

Phillip Chalmers
November 10, 2026 6:10 pm

In short; investment is gambling.
What I am not sure of, who is running the casino?

MarkW
Reply to  Phillip Chalmers
November 11, 2026 7:35 am

There are hundreds of millions of people who make money investing. There are millions who get wealthy from it. While investing involves risk, it is nowhere close to gambling.
The only people who get rich from gambling are those who run the casino.