The Technocrats Are Falling as Their Ideology Fails

From Tilak’s Substack

In a panel discussion and book launch on The War on Science hosted by the Free Speech Union on Saturday in London, Richard Dawkins reminded his audience of the Lysenko saga in the Soviet Union. The famed British evolutionary biologist noted the parallel between today’s pseudoscience regarding gender and Soviet pseudoscience regarding plant genetics.

In the annals of scientific infamy, few episodes rival the Lysenko tale. Under the iron patronage of Joseph Stalin and later Nikita Khrushchev, the pernicious Soviet doctrine subordinated biology to Marxist-Leninist ideology. The charlatan agronomist Trofim Lysenko peddled the delusion that acquired traits could be inherited — a scientific fantasy dressed in proletarian garb. He promised bumper harvests through “vernalisation” of seeds and other quackery, rejecting the “bourgeois science” of Mendelian genetics as elitist sabotage.

The result? Purges of genuine scientists, like the tragic Nikolai Vavilov, who starved in a gulag for daring to defend empirical truth; famines that claimed millions of lives; and a generation of Soviet biology crippled by dogma. Lysenkoism wasn’t mere error; it was the weaponisation of science for political ends where dissent was treason and evidence was expendable.

Fast-forward to our own era, and the parallels are as chilling as they are uncanny. Over the past two decades, we have witnessed an ideological capture of science no less insidious, though cloaked in the virtuous robes of DEI, ‘climate justice’ and public health. In the realms of climate policy and COVID-19 response, institutions that were once bastions of rigorous inquiry — the United Nations, the European Union, the US National Institutes of Health (NIH) and peer-reviewed journals — have been co-opted by a progressive ideology.

Here, ‘consensus’ trumps data, alarmism supplants scepticism and dissenting voices are not imprisoned but ‘cancelled’, smeared as ‘climate deniers‘ or “fringe epidemiologists“. The human toll? Skyrocketing energy prices that impoverish the working classes while denying fossil fuels to the energy-starved in the developing world; Covid lockdowns that ravaged economies and children’s futures; and mRNA ‘vaccines’ rushed to market without full transparency, now linked to mounting reports of adverse events. Billions worldwide have borne the brunt, from African villages ‘leapfrogging’ onto unreliable green energy at the behest of Western moralisers, to schoolchildren masked and isolated in the name of a virus that posed them negligible risk.

Yet, in a twist that history’s ironists might appreciate, the re-election of Donald J. Trump in 2024 has ignited a counter-revolution. His Executive Order issued in May 2025, ‘Restoring Gold Standard Science in America‘, is no mere bureaucratic flourish. By mandating transparency, reproducibility and the open exchange of ideas in federal science, the Trump administration has begun dismantling the edifice of politicised expertise. Emerging data on the harms of Net Zero dogma and Covid interventions — grounded in physics, economics and evidence-based medicine — bolster this fight.

For the first time in many years, there is genuine hope. The populist revolt may yet vanquish the forces that held science hostage in many realms of contentious public policy, restoring it as a tool for human flourishing rather than elite control.

The Ghost of Lysenko: Ideology Over Evidence in Modern Dress

To grasp the depth of our contemporary Lysenkoism, one must revisit its archetype. Lysenko’s rise in the 1930s was greased by Stalin’s hunger for rapid industrialisation sans ‘Western’ genetics, which he deemed incompatible with ‘dialectical materialism’. Lysenko’s ‘Michurinist’ biology posited that the environment could swiftly remake organisms — crops ‘toughened’ by cold exposure, for example. Dissenters were branded ‘wreckers’, their careers ruined, their lives often forfeited. Agricultural output plummeted, exacerbating the Holodomor famine and other disasters. Khrushchev, succeeding Stalin in 1953, doubled down, turning arable steppes into dustbowls. Only after Khrushchev’s 1964 ouster did the Politburo, under Brezhnev, allow modern genetics’ quiet revival — Lysenko retired in obscurity, dying in 1976, his legacy a scar on Soviet science.

Today’s variant is subtler, yet no less destructive. In climate science, the alarmist cult of anthropogenic global warming is epitomised by Michael Mann and his concocted ‘hockey stick’ graph which has been de-bunked as a statistical sleight-of-hand. Mann himself has been exposed as someone who “acted in bad faith” in court when he and his lawyers “presented erroneous evidence and made false representations to the jury”. Yet, his alarmist hockey stick chart has been enshrined by powerful institutions such as the UN and its agencies such as the IPCC. Net Zero by 2050 isn’t policy; it’s dogma, enforced through subsidies for intermittent wind and solar that balloon energy costs.

The UK’s pursuit of this mirage has saddled households with electricity prices four times those in the US, driving de-industrialisation and £220 billion in excess consumer costs since 2006. Green levies added $17 billion to UK bills in 2023-24 and are projected to hit $20 billion by 2029-30.

This isn’t science; it’s Lysenkoism redux. The IPCC’s RCP8.5 model scenario is now admitted as being extremely implausible by its own authors. Yet it is pushed by billionaires Tom Steyer and Michael Bloomberg among others to justify hamstringing fossil fuels, the bedrock of human progress.

Developing nations fare worse: the illusion of African countries ‘leapfrogging‘ into renewables denies them coal and gas for power plants, condemning billions of people to energy poverty. Meanwhile, the larger developing countries such as China and India which are not at the mercy of climate-related financial vetoes imposed by the World Bank and the IMF build coal-fired plants unabated at a sharp pace.

Chris Wright, US Energy Secretary, has argued that fossil fuels have lifted billions of people from destitution and that blocking coal plants in Africa is hypocritical and tantamount to “carbon colonialism”. The UN’s globalist agenda, seeded by billionaire foundations like the Gates and Soros foundations and assorted front organisations, funnels billions to NGOs like Greenpeace, WWF and Friends of Earth, which lobby for policies that enrich the ‘climate industrial complex‘ while pauperising the masses.

No less egregious is the Covid saga, where Lysenko-like figures — Anthony Fauci, former head of the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and Francis Collins, former director of the National Institutes of Health — orchestrated a censorship blitz against evidence-based dissent. The Great Barrington Declaration, published in October 2020 by Jay Bhattacharya (Stanford), Martin Kulldorff (Harvard), and Sunetra Gupta (Oxford), advocated “focused protection” for the vulnerable over blanket lockdowns in keeping with pre-2020 public health orthodoxy. Fauci and Collins, in leaked emails, plotted to “take down” this “fringe” threat, smearing its authors as dangerous quacks. Further lockdowns ensued: schools shuttered, economies cratered and children — forcibly face-masked and socially starved — suffered developmental delays, mental health spikes and learning losses equivalent to half a year’s progress according to UNESCO data.

The global Covid hysteria was fuelled by a March 2020 bombshell report by Professor Neil Ferguson of Imperial College, London, which forecast 510,000 deaths in the country without immediate lockdowns. Within a few weeks, Ferguson’s predicted half a million fatalities in the UK was adjusted downward to “unlikely to exceed 20,000”, reducing the fearful statistic by 25 times. It was later found that Dr Ferguson’s model was not fit for purpose.

This modern-day British Lysenko later resigned his governmental advisory position after being busted for breaking the very same lockdown rules he helped impose on the country. His junk model played a key role in the rationale for lockdowns around the world, particularly after the United Kingdom and United States governments explicitly invoked his report as a justification for lockdowns.

The cost of the Covid lockdowns runs into trillions. According to IMF data, global GDP declined by 3.0% in 2020, a stark reversal from the 2.8% growth recorded in 2019. In absolute terms, with global GDP at approximately $84.9 trillion in 2020, the 3.0% contraction equates to roughly $2.5 trillion in lost output — equivalent to the combined economies of several major nations. The IMF projected a cumulative impact over the two years 2020-21 of an estimated $9 trillion. The human toll, especially in the developing countries without welfare nets from broken supply chains, loss of trade and livelihoods can only be guessed at.

These policies were not born of evidence but of ideology. They were a technocratic fusion of precautionary panic and fanciful model-building. As in Lysenko’s era, the epidemiological modelers and bureaucrats working in captured regulatory agencies such as the CDC and the NIH ascended, while sceptics – such as Robert Malone who played a role in inventing mRNA technology – were exiled to Substack purgatory.

The Populist Reckoning: Trump’s Gold Standard for Scientific Research

Enter Trump 2.0 — a populist bulldozer against the modern Lysenkoist edifice. Trump’s 2025 executive order on “gold standard science” isn’t ‘anti-science’ as Left-liberal outlets like Nature and Science charge. When the act of exposing ideological science is branded ‘ideological’, psycho-political projection is complete. Reinstating scientific integrity policies, mandating data transparency and protecting dissenting views are antidotes to weaponised science. Agencies must now disclose uncertainties, falsify models rigorously and eschew political meddling.

For instance, it is not ‘anti-science’ to ensure that the farce of the extended Covid school closures, imposed by CDC guidance which was influenced by the country’s second largest teachers’ union, does not ever occur again. Making implausible climate modelling scenarios like RCP8.5 no longer credible in publicly-financed climate research is not ‘Right-wing’ science. Rather it keeps scientists honest, however committed they might personally be to tell the ‘noble lie‘ for a greater cause.

Lysenko fell amid continued crop failures after the protection Khrushchev’s patronage ended. Anthony Fauci now faces continued Congressional probes and possible charges for perjury and other offences in his role over public health policy during the Covid hysteria despite his pre-emptive pardon by president Biden.

History saw rehabilitations of Soviet scientists who followed Lysenko like Andrei Sakharov and others who quietly preserved genetic research. In our times, we see Jay Bhattacharya, once accused of being “fringe” and cancelled by mainstream media, is now the NIH newly appointed Director. He is guiding the agency towards evidence-based medicine and vowing probes into mRNA transparency lapses. Robert F. Kennedy Jr, the scourge of Big Pharma and now US Health Secretary, champions vaccine injury compensation and transparent, randomised and placebo-controlled trials to measure vaccine efficacy.

The Restoration of Reason

Trump’s re-election does not guarantee a new golden age of science. Bureaucracies are resilient; vested interests die hard. The climate-industrial complex — banks, consultancies, NGOs and subsidy-hungry, rent-seeking corporations in the renewables space — will not surrender easily. Nor will Big Pharma, whose financial windfalls from the Covid pandemic fuelled intense lobbying in the US Congress and bought political loyalty across both parties.

Yet there is something profoundly hopeful in the moment. For the first time in decades, the presumption of infallibility that shielded technocrats is cracking. The dogma of ‘settled science’ is being replaced by renewed curiosity, even humility. Physicists, economists and epidemiologists are reclaiming the terrain of open inquiry. Social media platforms like YouTube and Facebook are now openly claiming that they will now not censor dissenting voices with ‘fact-checks’ like they did under the previous administration.

In energy, this means acknowledging physical realities: that wind and solar cannot replace dense and reliable fossil fuels without catastrophic costs; that hydrocarbons remain indispensable to modern life; and that innovation, not prohibition, drives environmental progress. In medicine, it means demanding long-term safety data, transparent trials and honest communication about health risks and benefits.

These are not partisan demands. They are the foundations for human flourishing. When societies abandon them, suffering follows — whether in Stalin’s Ukraine or in the self-inflicted energy crises of Europe.

The New Enlightenment or the Last Stand?

The parallels between Lysenko’s Soviet Union and the Western technocracies of the early 21st century are sobering. Both replaced empirical inquiry with ideological certainty. Both persecuted dissenters as enemies of the state. Both sacrificed the well-being of millions on the altar of utopian theory.

Despite censorship, truth eventually emerges. The physics of energy, the economics of growth, the biology of disease — these are realities that cannot be legislated away. As evidence accumulates on the failures of Net Zero policies and the harms of pandemic overreach, the edifice of progressive technocracy is crumbling under its own contradictions.

The great art historian Kenneth Clark, reflecting on the fragility of civilisation, remarked that Western man had survived the Dark Ages “by the skin of our teeth”. We might say the same today. The victory of a populist coalition over the globalist establishment — symbolised by Trump’s return — has bought us time. We can also perceive a wider populist wave in the resurgence of parties such as the Alternative for Germany (AfD) in Germany, Reform UK and the National Rally in France. The momentum of the populist wave in the collective West can also be seen in the recent election victory of the conservative-populist Andrej Babis – a self-proclaimed “Trumpist” — in the Czech Republic and the shock win in Japan’s LDP party elections by “conservative” leader Sanae Takaichi – an admirer of Margaret Thatcher – who is set to be the next Prime Minister of Japan. We also see the Rightward shift in politics in the continued opposition of Hungary’s Viktor Orbán and Slovakia’s Robert Fico against the globalist policies pushed by Brussels’ sprawling EU bureaucracy.

The battle, however, is far from over. The same foundations and billionaires — Gates, Soros, Bloomberg, Rockefeller — continue to pour billions into NGOs that propagate climate alarmism and pandemic fears. The modern-day clerics of virtue will not yield easily. But the tide seems to be turning. Independent journalists, scientists and citizens are reclaiming the narrative. Platforms once silenced are now flourishing. The public appetite for truth, after years of manipulation, is insatiable. The explosive growth of X, reaching over 560 million active users, attracts users weary of censored platforms and is one indicator of the public’s desire for un-curated news.

The story of Lysenkoism is a warning from history: when science serves ideology, catastrophe follows. The 20th century paid that price in blood and famine. The 21st has flirted with a softer, subtler version — one that replaced gulags with cancellation, executions with de-platforming, but sought the same end: control.

Trump’s re-election represents a repudiation of that control in the West. For now, at least, reason has a fighting chance.

This was first published at the Daily Sceptic ( https://dailysceptic.org/2025/10/10/the-technocrats-are-falling-as-their-ideology-fails/ )

Dr Tilak K. Doshi is the Daily Sceptic‘s Energy Editor. He is an economist, a member of the CO2 Coalition and a former contributor to Forbes. Follow him on Substack and X.

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Fishlaw
October 13, 2025 10:18 am

At the end of his book State of Fear, Michael Crichton has a discussion of science being perverted by politics. It discusses the eugenics movement in the early 20th century. It is a chilling history of people misusing government’s heavy hand to further bad science. I highly recommend it.

Scarecrow Repair
Reply to  Fishlaw
October 13, 2025 10:35 am

It’s always depressing to me when people blame government’s mistakes on the scoundrels in charge at the moment, and can’t see that government itself, as a coercive immortal monopoly, is what attracts the scoundrels. Their fixes just grow and entrench the bureaucracy and make it that much harder to correct the consequences from the next round of meddling.

Reply to  Scarecrow Repair
October 13, 2025 11:55 pm

Simplistic. You gotta have government to ensure that society doesn’t deteriorate into tribalism and anarchy. How you structure government can limit the ability of those with autocratic tendencies—those who seek power over others—to wield unfettered power. The Founding Fathers thought deeply about that and debated ways to prevent unrestricted power. They came up with the best way so far to do that. Divide power between three branches—legislative, executive, and judicial. Define exactly what they can do and no more, and set term limits on legislators where the most damage can be done, requiring them to seek election every 2 or 6 years. That’s the US Constitution in a nutshell. Unfortunately Congress defied the Constitution and delegated legislative power to unelected executive branch bureaucrats in the 1946 Administrative Procedure Act. Agencies like the EPA and IRS can effectively create law, administer it, and punish lawbreakers, concentrating power in a way that the Founders explicitly forbade because of its corrupting effect. Trump is cleaning house and firing many of the autocrats, but there are a lot of them and 80 years of institutional inertia to stop. It will take Congress and the Supreme Court to restore the federal government to its intended way of functioning. Despite the attraction for petty autocrats, there are a lot of good people in government who understand how it’s supposed to work. Sadly they aren’t an overwhelming majority and we have to deal with the massive fallout of a bunch of dunces and preening do-gooders who are much more apt to break things than fix anything.

TBeholder
Reply to  Scarecrow Repair
October 14, 2025 12:30 am

Picking the scapegoats aligns with the conditioning. Which in a cancerous oligarchy is «King bad, bureaucrats are just a large number of responsible people doing responsible things (except when they distinctly belong to the Enemy Anthill — then they need to be replaced, but there’s still nothing wrong with the perverse incentive structure)»

SxyxS
Reply to  Fishlaw
October 13, 2025 12:40 pm

Just as with AGW
eugenics have been the religion of the 0.01%( the co2 of humanity so to say,with the small difference that they have the massive impact they project on co2 and that they are the control knobs of global(Ism) politics,wars,economy via Bilderberger,CFR, Atlantic Bridge etc).
The Carnegies,the Rockfellers even the Royals iirc.
Hitlers eugenics were sponsored by the Roguefellas Foundation based on Rudins plans.

And the same Roguefellas sponsored the UNO building in Manhattan, after they sponsored Hitler.
The same UNO that was created as result of WW2 that they sponsored is now massively benefiting from those global threats called AGW and Covid.

Anthony Sutton has 2 interesting books called Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution and Wall Street and the rise of Hitler.
Now imagine the coincidence that the UNO building is on the same tiny rock as Wall Street just as the One World Center.

TBeholder
Reply to  SxyxS
October 14, 2025 12:32 am

What, not a word about Marie Stopes and Margaret Sanger? And they have tried their level “best”…

TBeholder
Reply to  Fishlaw
October 14, 2025 12:14 am

See, «misusing government’s heavy hand to further bad science» obfuscates the problem more than exposes it.
At very least, this should raise the question of why bad science was furthered, and more generally, how things get selected by «government’s heavy hand» in general. I failed to resist the temptation of «dank moldbuggery» anyway, so may as well quote on the current state-of-affairs:

Everything is science, or at least works like science. If diplomats and foreign-policy experts are put in charge of foreign policy, they will want to take over the world. If they can. If we can. Why wouldn’t they? How can isolationism compete in the market for foreign-policy ideas? Isolationism is to foreign-policy jobs as rat-poison is to rats.

There is no way to fix this problem given our current principles of governance. If the power of final decision is taken away from the idea market—if we no longer “trust the science”—that power must be given to some other person or institution.

This authoritarian figure or cabal then has the power to “override the science.” This is the power that Hitler or Mao or Stalin had. This kind of Hitler energy is not allowed. Therefore, science must remain in charge of science. Also, everything is science—or at least, everything has a professor of itself.

The boomer map

Reply to  Fishlaw
October 14, 2025 11:52 am

Great recommendation. I had heard about the book for a while, but finally got around to reading it just a few months ago.

Reply to  Fishlaw
October 14, 2025 2:45 pm

You know who loved the American Eugenics movement? Hitler. Yes, Hitler. Adolph and Western progressives had much in common.

Not many people know that because progressives write the textbooks.

Tom Halla
October 13, 2025 10:44 am

Trump is doing the right thing in several areas, but RFK jr is showing his liability lawyer history of favoring good stories over any kind of rigor.
”Ultraprocessed foods” and synthetic food colors seem to be a hobby horse of his, and are both rather ill defined. The evidence offered is also rather nebulous.

MarkW
Reply to  Tom Halla
October 13, 2025 1:12 pm

The evidence offered is also rather nebulous.”

That’s being generous.

observa
Reply to  Tom Halla
October 13, 2025 5:53 pm

Yes I’ll fess up to it being nebulous by anecdote and at least he’s asking the hard questions. My young niece had contracted viral meningitis as a 6 month old which didn’t kill her but would leave her with the social skills of a toddler which is problematic as an adult.

She was a toddler when naive young uncle was looking after her and pulled out some cocktail frankfurts for a treat for the kids which the two elder ones quickly took off hungrily with their share. She informs me she doesn’t eat those. Oh don’t you like them? Yes. Well then get them into you along with the tomato sauce which she duly did.

A couple of days later mum rings me to ask what on earth I’d fed her as she was still managing the fallout and oops she should have warned well meaning but naive uncle about those obvious preservatives and colourings.

Petey Bird
Reply to  Tom Halla
October 14, 2025 8:13 am

There is truth to that, but the evidence used by the medical profession is largely garbage also. Diabetes 2 and heart disease are great examples. There is not very much real science in health.

George Thompson
Reply to  Petey Bird
October 15, 2025 4:57 am

Don’t forget the big bruha over the cause of ulcers.

Fran
Reply to  Tom Halla
October 14, 2025 10:32 am

Yet the team he has put together are taking vaccine issues seriously. The approach of making the fake-vax not recommended for pregnant, infants and most normal people is, I think, only the first step.

He has to move slowly on the really controvercial issues, and food colourings are something that is widely supported.

October 13, 2025 10:51 am

Here’s Donald Trump’s statement at the most recent UN General Assembly:

“You know, it used to be global cooling. If you look back years ago in the 1920s and 1930s, they said, global cooling will kill the world. We have to do something. Then they said global warming will kill the world, but then it started getting cooler, so now they could just call it climate change because that they can’t miss climate change because if it goes higher or lower, whatever the hell happens, this climate change. It’s the greatest con job ever perpetrated on the world, in my opinion.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7Y8_0zAzXc

Just wanted to point this out.

This article accuses modern climate science research of being “Lysenkoist,” then it holds up Trump’s so-called “Gold Standard Science” initiative as a corrective approach to modern science’s alleged ideological corruption.

But Trump himself is deeply uniformed about the basic history of climate science. The early 20th century saw warming (1910-1945), followed by a modest cooling from about 1945-1975, and then the modern warming trend since. His conclusion “it’s the greatest con job ever” is the very definition of an ideological position: one formed before understanding or acknowledging the evidence.

The irony is painful.

Here’s a better article:

https://tamino.wordpress.com/2025/09/29/trump-delusional-and-stupid/

Giving_Cat
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 11:28 am

> Trump himself is deeply uniformed about the basic history of climate science.

I find this claim lacking supporting evidence. This is classic case of presuming the reason others disagree is because of ignorance and not legitimate disagreement.

Reply to  Giving_Cat
October 13, 2025 11:45 am

No, it’s not a presumption. It is a straightforward matter of record.

Trump’s own statement, quoted directly from the video, is contradicted by surface temperature data.

There was no global cooling in the 1920s–1930s. It was the opposite.

The world warmed steadily until around 1945. That’s basic climate history. Information you could easily verify.

Prominent skeptics like Judith Curry acknowledge this period and use it to argue that modern warming isn’t exceptional:

https://judithcurry.com/2019/01/23/early-20th-century-global-warming/

Trump’s position isn’t even within the realm of debate between skeptics and mainstream scientists, yet still feels compelled to ‘correct’ science.

Scarecrow Repair
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 12:06 pm

What about that long 10-20 year pause which the alarmists (like you) pretend never happened:

and then the modern warming trend since [1975]

Reply to  Scarecrow Repair
October 13, 2025 12:12 pm

Do you think Trump even knows what the word ‘pause’ means in climate science?

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:16 pm

And again, doesn’t even try to defend what it knows is indefensible. Leaps straight for the insults.

Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2025 1:43 pm

I did not insult Scarecrow Repair in my comment.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:06 pm

I didn’t say you did.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:19 pm

Yes.. it means ZERO TREND period.

As in UAH data from 1980-1997, then a not-human-caused El Nino

then from 2001 – 2015, then a not-human-caused El Nino

with a cooling period from 2017 to the start of the recent not-human-caused 2023 El Nino

There is actually no evidence of any human caused warming in the whole of the 45 years of UAH data.

Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 2:07 pm

El Nino does not cause long term global warming.

During an El Nino, the trade winds that normally push warm water westward weaken or reverse. All of that pooled heat spreads east across the Pacific, warming a large surface area.

When the event ends, the normal trade wind pattern resumes and the warm water is pushed back west.

That is it. It is not a new source of energy.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 2:32 pm

Again the totally ignorance of what El Ninos are and what they do.

The source of energy for warming is THE SUN…… certainly not CO2.

Really stupid to think the tropical oceans aren’t warmed by the SUN.

And Bob Tisdale showed that the warm Pacific water is distributed and warms the other oceans..

So yes it DOES provide for longer term warming steps.

You still haven’t shown any warming in the UAH data that is not associated with NATURAL El Nino events…

El-Nino-steps-Tisdale
Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 3:00 pm

Again the totally ignorance of what El Ninos are and what they do. The source of energy for warming is THE SUN…… certainly not CO2. Really stupid to think the tropical oceans aren’t warmed by the SUN.

When did I ever say the tropical oceans aren’t warmed by the Sun? Do you think Trump knows the tropical oceans are warmed by the Sun?

So yes it DOES provide for longer term warming steps.

You need to test the statistical significance of those trends before claiming they represent the physical mechanism you think is warming the planet. Otherwise, it is just cherry picking.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 3:32 pm

Evasion of facts..

No, not cherry picking.

We know when El Nino events were.

A couple of small ones and 3 stronger one.

It is not cherry picking to say you are look at what happens at El Nino events… and then looking at what happens at El Nino events.

You STILL haven’t shown any warming in the UAH data that is not associated with El Nino events.

I think anyone with a function brain would know the tropical oceans are warmed by the SUN..

You are apparently not in that category.

Absorbed solar radiation, strongly anti-correlated with cloud fraction.

Nothing to do with human released CO2.

Absorbed-solar-radiation
Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 5:31 pm

That is cherry-picking.

If you don’t test the statistical significance of your trend, you can’t say whether it’s real or just noise.

There’s too much uncertainty without proper analysis.

The statistically significant warming trend since 1979 remains the most reliable indicator of the long-term pattern.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 6:30 pm

The warming in UAH has come only at El Nino event.

There is no human input or causation to these events.

The thing that most affects how much energy is released in an El Nino event is how much energy is absorbed from the SUN.

Humans have absolutely ZERO affect whatsoever

And you STILL haven’t shown any warming in the UAH data that is not associated with El Nino events.

Nor have you provided any measure scientific evidence for warming by atmospheric CO2.

Absorbed-solar-radiation-increases-due-to-downward-trends-in-cloud-cover-drive-2000-to-2022-warming-Loeb-2024
Fran
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 10:35 am

Eclang just needs treatment for TDS.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:14 pm

As you say, the 1930, 40 was a peak warm period.

Most real data shows it was warmer than the first two decades of this century.

Trump mis-spoke once during a 1 hour + long speech.. get over it.

Everything else he said wrt ” climate change (TM)” was correct

observa
Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 6:31 pm

That’s the problem with the born again fact checkers and a lucid Pres with a lot on his mind. He should be more like Sleepy Joe and the word salad lady so everything is totally irrelevant for the budding sleuths.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:14 pm

And once again, the troll just declares that his position is correct and anyone who disagrees with him is either stupid, evil or both.
Lysenko lives in the hearts and minds of those on the left.

Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2025 1:32 pm

I’m not taking a position here. I’m just pointing out a contradiction between two skeptics.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 2:33 pm

And failing completely !!

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:08 pm

A contradiction that exists in your mind only.

youcantfixstupid
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:59 pm

You’re correct, he stated the wrong period when ‘global cooling’ was the ‘great crises de jeu’, but he wasn’t wrong that it was promoted, than that it was ‘global warming’ and than ‘climate change’ because WHATEVER happens it’s ‘climate change’ or that the whole thing is the BIGGEST scam perpetrated on the human population ever…so go ahead, believe your scam, give up ALL modern amenities. Make your own clothes, go live in a hut living off the land, no wind, or solar other than what you can derive without hydrocarbons…when you and the rest of your ilk do that THAN we might believe you’re committed to the cause…

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 11:42 am

‘But Trump himself is deeply uniformed about the basic history of climate science.’

First of all, the guy’s fairly busy, so he’s probably relying on advisors that know a lot more about science than you or yours.

Second, aren’t ‘history of science’ courses offered in some lesser schools as a way for science illiterates, e.g., Al Gore, to satisfy distribution requirements?

Reply to  Frank from NoVA
October 13, 2025 11:53 am

I think Trump’s baloney detector is deeply informed from keen observation from within the business world, and then from the international scene in which U.S. interests were being eroded.

Reply to  David Dibbell
October 13, 2025 11:58 am

That too.

Scarecrow Repair
Reply to  David Dibbell
October 13, 2025 12:08 pm

Exactly. When proponents lie, obfuscate, and all their predictions (models or polar bears and snow) fail, it’s a pretty good guess that do not have facts or reality on their side.

Reply to  David Dibbell
October 13, 2025 11:09 pm

Im sorry David. I usually agree w you but his ‘baloney detector’ seems not to apply to feeding the US Hegemon Monster.
He believes in this zero sum game while pretending not to..

Reply to  Frank from NoVA
October 13, 2025 12:06 pm

Sure, he’s busy. But I’m pretty sure even world leaders can spare 30 seconds for a Google search on basic climate history.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 12:21 pm

And I’m pretty sure that any of the ‘world leaders’ you admire could spend the rest of their lives on Google researching ‘basic climate history’ (whatever that is), and still come to the wrong conclusion re. CO2’s impact on climate.

Reply to  Frank from NoVA
October 13, 2025 12:50 pm

If they can’t get 20th century climate history right, I’m not sure we need to worry about their take on CO2’s radiative impact.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 12:57 pm

No one needs to worry about CO2’s radiative impact, period.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:18 pm

I agree with you, there’s not a single climate scientist who can get climate history right. Heck, there’s not a single climate model that can either.

Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2025 3:33 pm

As long as climate models cannot predict time and strength of El Nino events…

… they cannot predict ANYTHING !!

KevinM
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 8:15 pm

Would you want a president who understood CO2’s radiative impact? Sounds like the wrong skills for the job.

Jimmie Dollard
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:01 pm

Eckang, your are the one who is miss informed. If you read other statements by Trump you would have known that he was talking about claims of doom from cooling then heating, not actual temperatures. Read up before actuactions.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:18 pm

It really is sad the way those on the left actually think a 30 second Google search is a substitute for actually trying to understand a subject.

Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2025 1:35 pm

In Trump’s case, even a 30 second Google search would be a huge improvement.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 4:15 pm

Yes, it seems Trump was TOTALLY CORRECT…

30 seconds of google search…..

There was a global cooling scare around 1920 !!

The List Of 120 Years Of Climate Scares By Scientists | 710 WOR | Mark Simone

1895 – Geologists Think the World May Be Frozen Up Again – New York Times, February 18951912 – Prof. Schmidt Warns Us of an Encroaching Ice Age – New York Times, October 19121923 – “Scientist says Arctic ice will wipe out Canada” – Professor Gregory of Yale University, American representative to the Pan-Pacific Science Congress, – Chicago Tribune1923 – “The discoveries of changes in the sun’s heat and the southward advance of glaciers in recent years have given rise to conjectures of the possible advent of a new ice age” – Washington Post1924 – MacMillan Reports Signs of New Ice Age – New York Times, Sept 18, 1924

Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 5:17 pm

That’s it? A handful of old newspaper clippings counts as a ‘global cooling scare’?

By that logic, what about all the headlines Tony Heller himself has compiled reporting on global warming during the same period? What would those constitute then?

https://realclimatescience.com/polar-meltdown/#gsc.tab=0

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 6:27 pm

Do you actually DENY that Trump is correct that there was a “ice age scare” in the media in the early 1900s?

Despite the evidence in front to your eyes. !

1923 – “Scientist says Arctic ice will wipe out Canada” – Professor Gregory of Yale University,”

How long is your shovel ???

Keep digging as your pit falls in around you!

Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 7:02 pm

Monday 16 April 1923 – Is the North Pole going to melt entirely? Are the Arctic regions warming up, with prospect of a great climatic change in that part of the world?

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:45 pm

1923 – “Scientist says Arctic ice will wipe out Canada” – Professor Gregory of Yale University



KevinM
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 8:19 pm

” Is the North Pole going to melt entirely?”
I still don’t know whether it will happen, when it would happen, why it would happen or whether it would be a problem.
Neither did those scientists from the 1920’s. Neither do these scientists now?

Reply to  KevinM
October 13, 2025 8:58 pm

I still don’t know whether it will happen, when it would happen, why it would happen or whether it would be a problem.

The Arctic permafrost contains vast amounts of carbon dioxide and methane. As it thaws, some of that is released as greenhouse gases, which amplify warming.

KevinM
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 8:31 am

Okay. Then? Has the permafrost been frozen continuously since Earth has spun around the sun? How’d it get that way? How long did it take?

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 8:47 am

Your statements is based on the assumption that carbon dioxide and methane amplify warming. This is not proven and is highly contested.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 2:02 pm

No they don’t.

Besides, as the permafrost melts, that will provide soil for more and bigger plants to grow, which will sink CO2.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:11 pm

Old clippings talking about what climate scientists were saying at the time.
Climate warriors, always desperate to rewrite the past.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 4:54 pm

Yep, a 30 second search is all it took.

To prove Trump was correct. ! 🙂

2006 – “Since 1895, the media has alternated between global cooling and warming scares during four separate and sometimes overlapping time periods. From 1895 until the 1930’s the media peddled a coming ice age. From the late 1920’s until the 1960’s they warned of global warming. From the 1950’s until the 1970’s they warned us again of a coming ice age. This makes modern global warming the fourth estate’s fourth attempt to promote opposing climate change fears during the last 100 years.” –Senator James Inhofe, Monday, September 25, 2006

Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 5:20 pm

So senator James Inhofe is the authority on early 20th century scientific opinion?

Scientific opinion follows data, and the data from the 1920s–1930s show global warming, not cooling.

That is why skeptics like Curry and Heller cite that period to argue that today’s warming isn’t exceptional.

But if you’re now calling it a ‘cooling scare,’ that talking point disappears completely.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 6:22 pm

I’m citing what the media said as well…

Trump was totally correct about there being a “cooling scare” in the media in the early 1900’s

The links have been given elsewhere.

DENY the media reports exist, makes no difference to that fact.

Yes from 1922ish to 1945 there was a strong warming trend.

So Curry and Heller are also correct.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 8:50 am

Your reading comprehension is abysmal.

Sen. James Inhofe did not comment on or make authority claims on scientific opinion.

He was remarking on MEDIA SCARES.

George Thompson
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 6:41 pm

OK,guys-I’m bored with this troll; can we move on? I’m being pissy here because I can’t possibly the only one who gets tired of a troll. For a while they’re fun, but then annoying. He spews bad science and TDS…

MarkW
Reply to  George Thompson
October 13, 2025 7:16 pm

On the bottom right corner of every post that was written by someone else, that has replies, if you hover your mouse over it, you will see an up arrow symbol. Click on that symbol and all the replies disappear.

KevinM
Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2025 8:23 pm

Ooh – “Hide Replies”. I never noticed that. Thanks.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:10 pm

Climate warriors get so bent out of shape whenever people don’t believe their lies.

Tom Halla
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:41 pm

Google, in particular, will misinform you on the history of climate change claims by activists.

KevinM
Reply to  Tom Halla
October 13, 2025 8:51 pm

I’ve seen it. If life weren’t already too short I’d have saved Google search results where the first answer is one thing, then some later year the answer is the opposite thing. A fun web page could be made of it – easier to comment on someone else’s page. Something as big as WUWT would take massive work.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Tom Halla
October 14, 2025 8:53 am

I read a report a while back, which I am personally unable to confirm, that Google entered an agreement with the UN to promote UN climate stories over everything else.

I did a Google search and it wasn’t until page 17 of the listings that I found a single article discussing something contrary to the mainstream alarmisms. By page 20, I still have not found anything by WUWT or any other “skeptic” site.

KevinM
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
October 13, 2025 8:10 pm

I thought it was nice that he tried even if he made some mistakes. Several previous presidents seemed so dependent on their advisors, writers and especially their teleprompters that I wondered whether USA had elected a thinking human or a blank news reader.

For people who criticize DJT’s speaking errors, and I understand not many will be reading any site associated with Heartland, how TF do you support that last guy? I feel like someone important decided “President? Nah, we won’t have one of those this time”, and from 2020-2024 we didn’t have one.

There’s a quote I like “that government which governs least governs best”, so if someone asked me whether it would be okay to go without a branch of federal government for a while, I might have thought it would be okay – but that’s not what happened. Somebody, and I’m sure now I’ll never know who, ran the executive branch of the US government for those 4 years.

Reply to  Frank from NoVA
October 13, 2025 11:07 pm

Yes but you can chose which advisors to believe. Like the ones who say that the US should push the acceleration button in their zero sum Hegemon game.
Trump is a shallow, reactive operator w fairly good instincts but his America first actually means ‘feed the Hegemon Monster’. Pauze when necessary then get back at it. Standard US foreign policy for decades..

Reply to  ballynally
October 14, 2025 8:46 pm

You’ll get no pushback from me that DJT doesn’t embody the Jeffersonian ideal of limited government. But you should consider that in AD 2025 the only alternative to MAGA Republicanism is a highly confident US Left that has now so completely dominated our cultural institutions that it is likely one, maybe two, elections away from going ‘full Marx’. Barring that the voters in the so-called ‘blue states’ (actually most states are red outside of their urban areas) come to their senses about what’s going on, it’s going to get very ugly in the next several years.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 11:42 am

Tamino is a known alarmist famous for twisting the facts. Trump is 100% accurate.

I lived through the global cooling scare, we have to do something.
I lived through the global warming scare, we have to do something.
I lived through the evolution of global warming to climate change, we have to do something.
Trump is 100% correct. By moving to “climate change”, anything that can be spun as “change” means “we have to do something”.

And every day we see extreme weather events well within their statistical frequency being spun as “climate change, we have to do something”.

For those of us who have looked into the facts, not much has changed and what little has changed has had a net positive impact on humanity and the biosphere. Crop production has exploded, there’s more arable land, heat deaths are up slightly but cold deaths are down over 10X as much. The ice caps are stubbornly refusing to melt, sea levels are rising at the same rate they have for centuries, tropical atolls are on average increasing in size instead of being buried by the sea, our biggest warming problem is directly attributable to UHI, totally unrelated to any change in global temperature. Even deserts, which were supposed to expand and threaten our food supply are stubbornly shrinking instead.

Trump may have under stated it. Calling it the greatest con job in history is true. But second is a distant second. Trump has saved us from insanity, if we’re smart enough to preserve his changes rather than reverse them “because Trump”.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 12:04 pm

Trump is 100% accurate.

So, Judith Curry is wrong?

Trump is 100% correct. By moving to “climate change”, anything that can be spun as “change” means “we have to do something”.

He’s alleging that scientists rebranded ‘global warming’ as ‘climate change’ to avoid addressing shifts in multidecadal trends. But climate science already explains the mid-20th-century cooling: it was caused largely by industrial aerosols, and as air pollution declined, greenhouse gas warming once again dominated the long term trend.

And every day we see extreme weather events well within their statistical frequency being spun as “climate change, we have to do something”.

The global average temperature is rising, and heat extremes are becoming more frequent as a result. See the attached image.

The ice caps are stubbornly refusing to melt, sea levels are rising at the same rate they have for centuries, tropical atolls are on average increasing in size instead of being buried by the sea, our biggest warming problem is directly attributable to UHI, totally unrelated to any change in global temperature. 

Polar ice caps have been melting over the past century.

Se level rise is accelerating.

Satellite datasets like UAH and RSS also show rapid global warming, independent of urban heat effects.

Tell me more of your “facts”.

01-Global-Temperature-Distibution
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 12:22 pm

You are clearly a purveyor of spin exactly as warned about in the article.

Your graphic about heat and cold weather completely ignores that the resulting reduction in cold deaths is ten TIMES the increase in heat deaths. Exactly the spin being warned of in the article. The rest of your diatribe is as easily debunked, including smarmy comments like “so Judith Curry is wrong?”. Nothing Trump said makes her wrong, in fact what he said is based in part on her work. Nice try at divide and conquer there Tamino wannabe.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 12:42 pm

I shared that graphic directly in response to your claim:

‘And every day we see extreme weather events well within their statistical frequency being spun as climate change.’

Trump does, in fact, contradict Judith Curry. Curry acknowledges an early 20th century warming period, while he insists it was global cooling. They can’t both be right.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 12:51 pm

They can and they are. Trump spoke in broad generalities, Curry speaks in scientific precision. The fact is that I lived through the global cooling narrative, I remember it distinctly. So forget the exact time frame each was speaking of, the order of events is correct. Global cooling scare followed by global warming scare which morphed into the climate change scare.

Nice try again to divert attention from the broad truths.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 12:57 pm

Oh, and your graph is BS. It is entirely theoretical. Still results in a net benefit unless you think people dying from cold is a good thing. It fails also to take into account the physics (which you tried to invoke when it suited you) that temperature progression will most certainly NOT follow the linear graphic you showed. P in watts/m2 varies with T to the 4th power (Stefan-Boltzmann Law of Physics) which means as temps warm, cold areas will warm more than warm areas. So your graph should be tilted with more warming on the left and muted warming on the right. But you just moved the graph forward a couple of notches and pretended all else was equal. All else is not equal. Your graph is spin.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 1:07 pm

That chart isn’t about linear warming or regional variations. It’s a simple statistical illustration of what happens to a temperature distribution when the mean shifts upward.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:47 pm

what happens to a temperature distribution when the mean shifts upward.”

So a totally hypothetical load of nonsense…

Just like “climate change (TM)

The idiotic and ignorant assumptions in that chart are total anti-science.

IF climate change (TM) was actually happening, cold places would become warmer. (great news) Warm places are constrained by H2O effects.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 2:05 pm

Assuming a normal distribution with a constant standard deviation? That’s very sophomoric, Eclang.

How do you suppose the temperature distribution for northern Siberia compares to Singapore?

Why do you suppose it is that the standard deviation is so much smaller in the tropics than in the high latitude regions?

If there were to be significant further global warming, the tropics would expand, but equatorial regions would not substantially change. Do you understand why?

Use your head for more than a hat rack!

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 3:37 pm

You can shift the mean upward without moving the max at all, or even bringing the max down. All you need to do is shift the min up, which is pretty much what has happened. There are limits to how warm the planet can get, which are functions of atmospheric pressure, convection and conduction, to name but 3 key factors. The planet has entered ice ages with far higher levels of CO2 than we have now.

Reply to  Right-Handed Shark
October 13, 2025 11:22 pm

Not only that: since 75% of the Earth is covered by oceans which cannot exceed ( roughly) 29/ 30 C any extra heat will move from the tropics towards the poles, making the moderate latitudes between the equator and the poles somewhat warmer which helps w lowering extreme weather events w less clashes between hot and cold. That seems to me fairly obvious. And warmer temperatures and increased CO2 levels make for a greener planet.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 9:00 am

Ah ha! You admit it is a model.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 1:05 pm

Trump’s the one insisting that climate science is ideological and needs ‘correction.’

If he can’t even get the century’s basic temperature history right, it’s pretty clear he’s never looked seriously at the science he wants to ‘fix.’

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:17 pm

Ah yes, believe the troll, not my lived life experience. You’ve found a nit to pick and you just cannot stop picking at it.

Sorry bud, Trump remembers the global cooling scare and refers to it in general terms. I remember children bursting into tears because there was an ice age coming and we were all going to have to move south to survive. I was the lone student in my grade 8 class who stuck up my hand and called BS, so don’t try and tell me it didn’t happen. Trump didn’t put up a graphic that was wrong, he was referring to a narrative that was very real. If something was wrong about when the cooling actually occurred, it was the narrative itself that was wrong, not Trump’s reference to the narrative.

You put up a graphic however and it is blatantly wrong. Taking into account SB Law, your graphic should have been slewed sideways like this:

If you further analyze things with a view to SB Law, you’ll find that most of the warming occurs at high altitude, high latitude, winter and night time lows. Very little happens at the highest temps in low lats, low altitudes, summer and day time highs. Which results in a nothing burger for a few degrees of warming.

slewed-temp-graph
Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 1:30 pm

I don’t think Trump even realizes the 1970s ‘global cooling’ idea came from a small group of scientists. His version of climate history is completely inverted. From what he said, he seems to think the 1920s and 1930s were cooling, which is the opposite of what the data show.

If you further analyze things with a view to SB Law, you’ll find that most of the warming occurs at high altitude, high latitude, winter and night time lows. Very little happens at the highest temps in low lats, low altitudes, summer and day time highs. Which results in a nothing burger for a few degrees of warming.

Even with the SB law adjustment, the basic concept of the graphic still holds: as the mention shifts upward, the distribution produces fewer cold extremes and more hot ones. The warming may be stronger in colder in colder regions and seasons, but that still means the curve moves right.

Furthermore, there’s a lot more to Earth than just the low latitudes.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:38 pm

There’s a lot more to earth than low latitudes? No sh*t Tamino.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 2:13 pm

there’s a lot more to Earth than just the low latitudes.”

roflmao.. and you think a bit of warming in Alaska or Siberia wouldn’t be beneficial.

Not that humans can do anything about making it happen, except in very local urban areas.

Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 4:46 pm

…unless the permafrost starts melting. Then it’s a bit less ‘beneficial.’

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:21 pm

Do you have any evidence to support what you have been told to believe?

Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2025 9:16 pm

Yes. Multiple independent lines of evidence confirm that solid water transitions to liquid water when exposed to heat. We call this ‘melting.’

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 11:29 pm

Please give me the equation how much warming you need to melt several kilometres of packed ice.
Can you remember how much ice stayed for days/ weeks after it thawed in winter?
Warming takes place at minimum temperatures at the poles. So, going from minus 50 to minus 48 Celsius is not melting. Plus, melting happens at the edges of ice.

Reply to  ballynally
October 14, 2025 5:32 am

Warming takes place at minimum temperatures at the poles.

Minimum temps AND in winter when it is coldest.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 6:00 am

And again, non-responsive to the question asked.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:41 pm

Another little unsubstantiated fantasy..

Just like the rest of the “climate change” scam.

If the permafrost did melt, they could use the ground for growing stuff (if it ever got warm enough..

Massive benefit.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 9:05 am

Only if your fantasies about carbon dioxide and methane “amplifying” the temperature.
Hint: Temperature cannot be amplified.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:52 pm

A small group of scientists? I recall walking by a news stand and saw three of the largest circulation magazines all with front cover articles about the impending ice age. That was the narrative that was fed to the public. Some of THOSE scientists the recanted and started bleating warming and then recanted and started bleating change.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:20 pm

The current global warming scare comes from just a small number of scientists, and a whole lot of scammers trying to get rich.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 9:04 am

BS alarm. Global average temperature.
BS alarm. “Climate Science.” No such degree offered anywhere.
To master the science, one would have to have multiple PhDs in physics, engineering, and a host of related degrees

Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 2:25 pm

David you should this at end of your comment.

NB: If you click on the the graph, it will expand and become clear. Click on the “X” in the circle to return to comment text.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:18 pm

He got the history of the narrative right. Bang on. That’s what he was referring to.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 4:27 pm

A 30 second Google search shows that trump was TOTALLY CORRECT.

There was a cooling scare in the 1920’s.

The List Of 120 Years Of Climate Scares By Scientists | 710 WOR | Mark Simone

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:48 pm

Trump’s the one insisting that climate science is ideological”

And he is totally correct.

He has more real clue about the actual reality of “climate” science than you will ever have. !

Rich Davis
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 2:19 pm

Climate Lysenkoism is obviously ideological. It’s cultish in fact. The UK and Germany are dismantling their economies, destroying the prosperity of their people for no rational purpose.

Trump doesn’t speak to the educated and well-born in carefully crafted treatises with flawless logic. It can be maddening to be sure. He paints with emotive force in broad strokes to be taken seriously, not literally. He doesn’t care that his facts are misstated. I think he sometimes does it on purpose to see your ilk melt down.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:19 pm

Trump doesn’t buy into the cooked data, therefore he rejects science.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 12:50 pm

So much of what you have ranted is just plain WRONG….

Scientist have provided no evidence for the aerosol theory for the cooling from 1940 to the late 1970s, the coldest period since 1900.
Data over the USA shows no effect from reduced aerosols.

Extreme heat is only increasing in urban areas.. 1930,40 still have many records

Ice caps are still very much in the high range of the last 10,000 years.
Arctic has barely changed since 2007, and is in the top 5% or so of the Holocene, just a bit down from the debilitating LIA that drove sea life out of the Arctic.
.
Greenland ice area is just a small amount down from the LIA, but still far greater than most of the last 8000 years

Antarctic is actually gaining ice as the temperature is cooling down there.

There is no evidence at tide gauges of any mathematically significant change in the rate of sea level rise.

There is no warming in the UAH data except that which has occurred at El Nino event.. These have ZERO evidence of any human causation.

“Climate Change (TM)” is all about warming by enhanced atmospheric CO2, and there is no measured scientific evidence that is happening. !

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:20 pm

The total shift is a bit over 1C and almost all of that is completely natural.

Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2025 1:49 pm

And highly beneficial.. out of the coldest period in 10,000 years

Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2025 1:50 pm

“Almost all” or “completely”?

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 2:03 pm

Only human caused warming is localised land-use changes and urban warming.

There is no evidence of any “global” warming by humans.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:24 pm

I’m willing to concede that maybe 1% could be CO2.

Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2025 7:38 pm

David Dibbell has shown that the effect of CO2 on warming is basically a flea on an elephants’ rear end.

Reply to  bnice2000
October 14, 2025 3:36 am

And that elephant won’t stop dancing around!

KevinM
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 8:55 pm

UAH and RSS also show rapid global warming”
eliminate the word rapid.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  KevinM
October 14, 2025 9:10 am

I think a 20F change from 6:00 am to 6:00 pm is rapid warming.
Then again the 20F change from 6:00 pm to 6:00 am is rapid cooling.

hdhoese
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 11:48 am

https://americanmind.org/salvo/manufacturing-consensus-on-climate-change/
According to Richard Lindzen this started with the ozone hole, according to Chamberlin it started over a century and a quarter ago, his Ruling Theory. Same thing with the fisheries I deal with–ad hockery.
Peters, R. H. 1976. Tautology in evolution and ecology. American Naturalist.110(971):1-12.
https://doi.org/10.1086/283045
Peters, R. H. 1991. A Critique for Ecology. Cambridge Univ. Press. 366pp. 

Maybe he just has a good sense about knowing who to believe, whether understanding all the details or not? Looks like a cycle to me, rather ragged and unnecessary.

Reply to  hdhoese
October 13, 2025 12:09 pm

The physics underlying modern climate change theory date back to the 19th century, long before the ozone hole was even discovered.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 12:25 pm

The physics predicting the existence of the ozone hole debate back to well before the ozone hole was discovered and well before the CFC’s that it is based on were produced in mass.

Really want to play this game? You came to the wrong place.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 12:47 pm

I’m not the one who mentioned the ozone hole. In any case, they are completely different branches of science.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:21 pm

Way to miss the point wannabe.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 1:58 pm

OK, so let’s go back to your base claim that the physics was known in the 19th century. I agree.

That however, is spin. The direct effects of increasing CO2 were known. What the feedbacks would be, what natural cycles were to play out, what other factors might be involved, those things were entirely unknown.

They are STILL unknown.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 2:17 pm

 The direct effects of increasing CO2 were known.”

Actually, they weren’t known.. They were postulated.. a baseless conjecture showing very little understanding of how the atmosphere works.

All Arrhenius and others showed was that CO2 was a radiatively active gas.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 2:19 pm

But those factors are well understood. The Sun’s output has been slightly decreasing since the mid 20th century, and orbital forcing has been negative. They can’t explain the observed warming.

Natural cycles do exist, but if this were just a cycle, we’d expect to see the trend level off and later begin turning downward. There’s no indication of that occurring. The cyclical explanation becomes less plausible as time goes on.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 3:23 pm

No, those factors were not well understood, and still aren’t. We still cannot model clouds properly, water vapor increases due to temperature increases are not understood, the signature tropical hot spot has never appeared and we don’t know why. I could go on.

As for cycles, sorry, but we cannot observe them as many are too long for us to have collected enough data, and there are so many that we can’t separate them from each other. We cannot even predict the ones we know about like El Nino and La Nino.

Your grasp of the science is as weak as your attempts at spin.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 4:56 pm

So you’re arguing uncertainty is too great. But uncertainty doesn’t invalidate AGW. It cuts both ways. A better understanding of clouds and feedbacks could show that the warming risk has been underestimated, not exaggerated.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:28 pm

Uncertainty completely invalidates the claim that CO2 is a proven danger and we must spend whatever it takes to eliminate fossil fuels.

Regardless, the data of the last 200 years completely invalidates the claim that CO2 is dangerous.

Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2025 9:07 pm

Not at all. If you accept the physics of greenhouse gases, and everyone does, then you also accept that the uncertainty lies in the feedback strength, not the basic mechanism. That range is roughly 1.5C to 4C of warming per doubling, and the upper end of that range would unquestionably be dangerous.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 11:40 pm

These are…statements. Not of fact ie..’settled science’.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 6:03 am

And now you are trying to merge two unrelated claims.
First the claim that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, which it is, with the claim that therefore the wildest of the bad predictions must be true.
The reality is that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, but after the feedbacks are factored in, is only capable of a few tenths of a degree of warming.

Reply to  MarkW
October 14, 2025 8:05 am

No, I’m pointing out something specific in response to your claim:

“Uncertainty completely invalidates the claim that CO₂ is a proven danger and we must spend whatever it takes to eliminate fossil fuels.”

The uncertainty in climate science doesn’t mean what you think it does. It refers to the range of possible feedback strengths.

That range includes higher sensitivity values that would make the outcome dangerous.

Because of that uncertainty, no one can claim to know with certainty how severe the warming will be. But by the same token, no one can honestly claim it won’t be dangerous either.

Uncertainty is not our friend.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 2:12 pm

Now you are just making things up again.
The uncertainty is about everything.
Your declaration that if we don’t do anything we might die is amusing, even if hyperbolic.

We can’t know what the broken models predict, however we can look into the past and see what happened when similar circumstances arose. And what we find is a whole lot of nothing.

We know that warmer is better. We know that the planet is cooler in the present than it has been for almost all of history, going back 100’s of millions of years.
We know that 60 some million years ago, CO2 levels were between 5000 and 7000 ppm, and nothing bad happened, in fact life thrived.

Your desperation to believe that we are all going to die unless we turn over control of everything to government is quite amusing,

Keep dancing, it’s fun.

Reply to  MarkW
October 14, 2025 8:11 am

You’d need another extremely strong negative feedback for CO2 to cause only a few tenths of a degree of warming.

The Planck feedback is negative. But the other major feedbacks we observe, like water vapor, ice albedo, cloud albedo, and land use changes (deforestation), are positive.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 2:17 pm

All of those are negative, and some of them are strongly negative.
Ice melting in the arctic means lots more heat escapes to space.
More evaporation increases the rate at which the atmosphere over turns, which takes heat from the lower atmosphere to the stratosphere where it is easy for it to escape into space. This circulation also increases cloud formation which reflects short wave radiation back into space.
Replacing forests with grass land increases how much light is reflected into space.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 9:19 am

Everyone does?
Ha!
First, I dispute the expression “greenhouse gas” and “greenhouse effect” as legitimate.
Second ECS, “equilibrium climate sensitivity” is bogus. No where on the planet is the climate or weather or temperature in equilibrium for more than 1 second and that is not global.
Third, a single climate “control knob” is not possible.
Fourth, “climate change” cannot affect anything. Climate and climate change are statistical calculations.
Fifth: We already crossed the 1.5C threshold. We are still here. Where is the danger?

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:37 pm

Wrong again..

Cloud cover over the tropics has allowed more solar radiation to be absorbed.

It provides the energy for the El Nino events that are the only warming in the UAH data.

Clouds-v-temp
KevinM
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 9:09 pm

Is earth >6000 years old? If so, then the system you propose would be stuck hot by now.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 9:14 am

Could, maybe, possibly…. ah, “climate science” at its best.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 3:41 pm

Some here will fight me on this, but I suspect that there is some kernel of truth to the idea that an increase in CO2 has a small but real effect. The difference between saying that there’s no effect and saying that empirical data implies a potential small but beneficial effect, is not really meaningful.

The point is that even if you could “prove” that enhancing the natural greenhouse effect has warmed temperatures and it was not a natural effect—SO WHAT? Just because there’s a REAL effect doesn’t imply that there’s a SIGNIFICANT effect. And certainly not that it’s a HARMFUL effect. And even less so that it’s a CATASTROPHIC effect.

Imagine Michael Mann buck naked (apologies for that image!), running through an unheated room in winter. He will produce a real increase in room temperature. Probably not measurable, but theoretically “provable”. Obviously it’s not significant.

Reply to  Rich Davis
October 13, 2025 4:52 pm

The warming is both statistically and physically significant. We see it in shifting animal ranges, melting ice, changing seasonal freeze–thaw cycles, and rising sea levels.

At roughly 1.6C per century and accelerating (UAH), that’s not a gentle natural trend. It is a cause for concern.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:32 pm

The warming that you cite started almost 100 years prior to the rise in CO2 and hasn’t accelerated once CO2 did start rising.
If you examine the last 20,000 years, you will see temperatures that were as much as 3 to 5C warmer than today, without any increase in CO2. You will see temperatures that were cooler, without any decrease in CO2.

When the data doesn’t match your theory, your theory is wrong. Regardless of how many “scientists” have staked their careers on it.

Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2025 9:08 pm

Yet you can never be bothered to cite this data.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 6:06 am

I’ve cited more data than you have.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:34 pm

Wrong, UAH shows warming come almost totally at El Nino events.

There is no evidence of any human caused warming in the UAH data.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Rich Davis
October 14, 2025 9:21 am

Agreed. Just considering the specific heat capacity of CO2 versus the atmosphere as a whole, there will be a trivial, perhaps even measurable, change due to changes in CO2 concentration. But nothing of the orders of magnitude proclaimed by Climate Liars.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 3:47 pm

They can’t explain the observed warming.”…

The absorbed solar radiation.. you know, the thing that actually does warm the planet has been increasing at least since 2000…

The “observed warming” in UAH comes only at EL Nino events.

The observed warming in the surface data is from several sources: El Nino effects, urban and airport warming, bad site placement, changes in thermometer types, and a whole lot of faked and mal-manipulated non-data. Such a mess as to be meaningless from a scientific point of view

.. there is no evidence of any CO2 warming effect, just THE SUN. !

Absorbed-solar-radiation-increases-due-to-downward-trends-in-cloud-cover-drive-2000-to-2022-warming-Loeb-2024
KevinM
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 9:06 pm

The direct effects of increasing CO2” … “those factors are well understood

If I understand how a thing works I can usually make three guesses about what might happen and get two right.

MarkW
Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 7:26 pm

He’s nowhere near as smart as his mom told him he was.

Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2025 7:33 pm

Or his kindy teachers. ! 🙂

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  MarkW
October 14, 2025 9:24 am

He gets his “data” rom Greta.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:26 pm

Different branches, but for the most part, the same charlatans were behind it.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 12:52 pm

The physics underlying modern climate change theory “……

… applies to an atmosphere that does not exist on this planet.. or any other planet.

Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 2:13 pm

But the physics behind greenhouse gas warming are well established. CO2’s molecular structure absorbs and re-radiates infrared radiation from the planet’s surface. This creates an insulating effect that keeps the planet habitable. Increasing the atmosphere’s carbon dioxide concentration enhances that effect.

Of course, the real atmosphere involves feedbacks, and yes, that introduces uncertainty.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 2:21 pm

WRONG..

CO2 rarely gets a chance to re-radiate.

It does NOT create an insulating effect, that is bogus non-science.

You really have to catch up on some basic physics beyond what the ignorant mantra the climate hoax puts forward.. you are sadly lacking .

Tom Shula and Markus Ott : The “Missing Link” in the Greenhouse Effect | Tom Nelson Pod #232 – YouTube

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:33 pm

Warming yes, amount no.

Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 5:40 am

But the physics behind greenhouse gas warming are well established.

Now I am sure you are reading from the warmers Bible.

If CO2 is a blanket and keeps heat from leaving day after day after day, the earth would have burned up long ago.

Explain to us exactly how the earth keeps radiating enough heat to prevent that.

Reply to  Jim Gorman
October 14, 2025 8:19 am

Because CO2 concentration has always been finite in the past. Ice core data shows carbon dioxide concentration naturally fluctuated between 180-280 ppm during glacial-interglacial episodes.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 2:20 pm

Considering the fact that plants begin dying at 150 ppm, those levels are dangerously low.
The CO2 levels have been dropping for the last 60+ million years. They have dropped from 7000 ppm to the starvation levels seen today.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 9:25 am

Absorbing electro magnetic energy in valence electrons and reemitting electro magnetic radiation has nothing to do with rising or falling temperatures.

Reply to  Sparta Nova 4
October 14, 2025 1:03 pm

When you slow down the process by which Earth releases heat to space, the planet warms. That’s exactly what greenhouse gases do.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 2:22 pm

They slow it down, ever so slightly in the lower atmosphere, which was in saturation already. They actually speed up how rapidly the upper atmosphere can shed energy.

I’ll explain it to you since I’m sure this is another thing you are ignorant of.
Down here, where the atmosphere is thick, you average photon of a frequency that CO2 is capable of absorbing can fly an average of a meter or so before it is absorbed before it gets absorbed. Then before that energy can be radiated away, it is transferred to another atom by collision. The increase in CO2 that the world has enjoyed over the last 100 years has only decreased this length by a few centimeters.
In the upper atmosphere the opposite happens, because the atmosphere is so much thinner, collisions are much less frequent.
As a result, when energy is transferred to a molecule of CO2, that energy has a better chance of being radiated away, then transferred via another collision. Also, since the atmosphere is so much thinner, if that photon gets radiated in an upwards direction, it has a very good chance of escaping all the way to space. More CO2 molecules I the atmosphere result in more radiation of energy, and an increase in the rate of cooling.

Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 11:40 pm

That’s exactly what greenhouse gases do.”

Only H2O has any effect whatsoever on the release of heat

There is no measured scientific evidence that CO2 has any effect whatsoever.

You think there is evidence , maybe you produce it 😉

.. nope.. you cannot produce what doesn’t exist.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:25 pm

Yes, the physics do say that CO2 is a greenhouse gas.
Unfortunately for you and your coreligionists, the physics only start with the radiative properties of CO2. Then you have to understand the physics of the entire weather system. This is a field that is still being researched and still poorly understood at best.

It is abundantly clear that the climate is massively dominated by negative feedbacks, more of which are being discovered on a continual basis.

Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2025 1:38 pm

If the climate were massively dominated by negative feedbacks, global temperatures wouldn’t swing by about 5C between glacial and interglacial periods. The Milankovitch cycles drive those ice ages, but their forcing is slow and weak. Thus, most of the temperature change comes from positive feedbacks like albeod.

paul courtney
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 5:02 pm

Mr. clang: These folks (h/t hoffer, W, 2000, others who tried good-faith discussion with this contrarian troll) have reduced you to a fine paste, yet you persevere in reducing yourself to dust. You’re ignorance is more evident with each post, please keep it up! You’ll soon be too small to measure, how apt!

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:35 pm

If the climate was dominated by positive feedbacks, even weak ones, then the first time there was a temperature change, in either direction, the planet would either boil or freeze.

Being dominated by negative feedbacks doesn’t mean temperature can’t change, just that it will change by a lot less than it would have.

Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2025 2:23 pm

the physics do say that CO2 is a greenhouse gas.”

Not correct.. The physics says CO2 is a radiatively active gas.

“greenhouse gas” is a term made up by the climate scammers.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  bnice2000
October 14, 2025 9:27 am

“greenhouse gas” is a term made up by the climate scammers.

Thank you.

youcantfixstupid
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 2:10 pm

The physics of how some infrared absorbing gases can delay heat transfer dates back to the 19th century. The ‘physics underlying climate change’ is VASTLY more complicated and no model in existence comes anywhere close to getting it correct. Data shows the world is a better place to live today under almost any metric imaginable, vastly increased life spans, vast areas of the planet are greening, more biodiversity not less, fewer deaths from extreme temperatures because far fewer people are dying from cold…practically all food stuffs show an extreme increase in production, islands are growing not shrinking, the Great Barrier reef is at its most productive, polar bears are thriving NOT dying and the Arctic ice isn’t going anywhere any time soon…

When you blame everything on climate change you let politicians off the hook for not doing the simplest of things to help society…so keep believing the scam if you like..

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  youcantfixstupid
October 14, 2025 9:30 am

Back then (19th century) they referred to “sensible heat” and “heat radiation.”
Although Eunice Foote discovered in 1850 that electro magnetic radiation and thermal energy were different, the “heat radiation” concept still prevailed.

IR is not heat.
Heat is the flow of thermal energy across a temperature gradient.

The climate liars still insist in conflating IR with heat.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 2:31 pm

What is your fascination with the historical (mis-) understanding of climate science?

Temperatures have cycled up and down for eons. Our inability to resolve short-term fluctuations in proxy data, leads to an unwarranted assumption that recent changes have been unprecedented in rapidity.

Ultimately, the minor milding of the weather has been entirely beneficial to human flourishing and the logarithmic nature of warming from greenhouse gases promises only continued benefits.

Reply to  Rich Davis
October 13, 2025 2:49 pm

As I’ve said, Trump claims climate science is wrong because it’s supposedly driven by ideology. Yet he himself is deeply uninformed and still makes policy statements based on that ignorance, even declaring at the UN that climate change is a hoax.

This isn’t just a nitpick. He also implied that scientists rebranded ‘global warming’ as ‘climate change’ because they couldn’t explain multi-decadal variability. This ignores research showing that cooling was caused by industrial aerosols temporarily masking greenhouse warming.

Trump is not engaging in scientific correction. He is engaging in ideological projection. And the irony is that this article praises Trump as a defender of science.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 3:07 pm

Trump’s message is that a sick anti-human agenda has always driven the war against fossil fuels. The false story that there’s a climate catastrophe is the HOAX of which he speaks. Not a denial of the trivial warming that we’ve seen.

It’s always fear and exaggeration with the promise of safety if you just give up all your freedom and submit to our soft totalitarianism.

Ice Age coming! Solution get rid of fossil fuels (and ever more socialism)

Global Warming! Solution get rid of fossil fuels (and ever more socialism)

Climate Change! Solution get rid of fossil fuels (and ever more socialism)

Reply to  Rich Davis
October 13, 2025 4:44 pm

But how would Trump know whether it’s a ‘sick anti-human agenda’ or a genuine concern about the environment?

He can’t even get the basic facts right.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:40 pm

It’s easy to see how the climate alarmists are willing to destroy the environment in order to fight fossil fuels. It’s also easy to see that the climate alarmists don’t care how many lives they ruin.
So the claim that they are anti-human with no concern for the environment is proven.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 9:32 am

He can’t even get the basic facts right.

Oh, but he did. He was discussing media reports, not science, and he was correct about what was reported.

Reply to  Sparta Nova 4
October 14, 2025 1:01 pm

No. Trump is incorrect.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 2:29 pm

I’m sure that is what you have been told to believe, but as usual, you are incorrect.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 3:49 pm

Trump claims climate science is wrong because it’s supposedly driven by ideology. “

On that basis, he is totally correct.

Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 4:59 pm

You get three replies in a post thread to the same user.

Reply to  Charles Rotter
October 13, 2025 5:30 pm

Censorship.. again !!

Did you know that there were media reports from 1895 -1924 that “scientists says” we may be headed for a new ice age ??

It appears that Trump was TOTALLY CORRECT when he said 1920. !

MarkW
Reply to  Charles Rotter
October 13, 2025 7:42 pm

Does the user have the same restrictions? Only 3 replies to bnice2000.

MarkW
Reply to  MarkW
October 14, 2025 6:09 am

Looks like this comment got me thrown into moderation.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:38 pm

So far, your only evidence that Trump is wrong is based on his disagreement with the ideologically driven climate “scientists”.

Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2025 9:10 pm

And his disagreement with Tony Heller.

Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 12:01 am

He doesn’t disagree with Tony Heller.

Trump said there was scientists in the media writing about a new ice age possibly coming

He was absolutely and provably correct.

Yes there was other information…. that doesn’t change the fact that Trump was correct.

KevinM
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 9:22 pm

“it’s supposedly driven by ideology.” I’ll bet $100 that Eclang and Davis voted for different candidates (assuming usa) and promote different systems of government.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 9:31 am

Trump did not speak to science. He spoke to media reports.

youcantfixstupid
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 12:42 pm

I dare say that Trump has a better handle on ‘the science’ than you. He didn’t claim that climate scientists rebranded ‘global warming’ to ‘climate change’ because they couldn’t ‘explain multi-decadal variability’…he correctly identified the rebranding as a way to for climate cultists to latch on to anything they claim is ‘different’ than some ‘goldilocks environment’ (that they can never actually identify) and blame every change on humans. The list of all things ‘different’ from some unknowable ‘best’ value is growing and endless…just as long as there’s a narrative that can blame it on ‘bad humans’.

In your world humans are the worst of the worst, the reason for every ‘bad thing’ (TM). Feel free to throw off the shackles of modern civilization, give up your cushy living quarters and go live in the woods…O but don’t be burning any of that wood or other plant matter, it’ll give off a lot of that deadly CO2 you hate so much.

The burning of hydorcarbons for energy is the greatest single ‘recycling program’ Mother Earth ever invented…She locked up all those hydrocarbons from dinosaurs and related plant matter knowing we’d eventually find it and release it back in to the environment to help make it green again…Wow GAIA is so thoughtful and caring…

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 3:49 pm

And John Tyndall, one of the early researchers into the theory knew the truth, and explained in a lecture in 1863:

“Aqueous vapor is a blanket, more necessary to the vegetable life of England than clothing is to man. Remove for a single summer-night the aqueous vapor from the air which overspreads this country, and you would assuredly destroy every plant capable of being destroyed by a freezing temperature. The warmth of our fields and gardens would pour itself unrequited into space, and the sun would rise upon an island held fast in the iron grip of frost.

“The next most significant greenhouse gas, carbon dioxide (CO2), is different from water vapor in that its concentration in the atmosphere is much the same all over the globe. CO2 currently accounts for about 7 percent of the atmosphere’s ability to intercept heat.”

And he was working with home made apparatus and instrumentation that wasn’t calibrated, so was largely guesswork. Many, many researchers since say he over-estimated.

KevinM
Reply to  Right-Handed Shark
October 13, 2025 9:27 pm

RHS post reminds me – I wish all the genius and money usa wasted making inaccurate climate models had been spent on other research.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Right-Handed Shark
October 14, 2025 9:34 am

“John Tyndall”

Thank you.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 11:37 pm

Yes, the wrong physics. Arrhenius was erronious because he didnt understand the atmosphere. And Wanabe built his models on him.
It is funny to me that warmunistas always refer back to Arrhenius when it suits them but when things run counter to their narrative they claim ‘ new insights’ ie the models showing a foregone conclusion. Then all of a sudden history doesnt matter. Pick your favourite cherry..

Reply to  ballynally
October 14, 2025 12:36 am

‘Greenhouse by CO2′ theory was proven wrong by Knut Angstrom in 1900 in a paper debunking Svante Arrhenius’ 1896 paper, the one all these alarmists quote. In 1906, Arrhenius reviewed his earlier work, acknowledged his errors and concluded that any additional SLIGHT warming that MIGHT come from CO2 would be ‘benign and beneficial’.

“we may hope to enjoy ages with more equable and better climates, especially as regards the colder regions of the earth, ages when the earth will bring forth much more abundant crops than at present, for the benefit of rapidly propagating mankind.”

 None of the alarmists quote this later work. Funny, that.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 9:12 am

Wrong. The 19th century scientists initiated curiosity about climate and presented unsubstantiated conjectures, many of which have been disproven, as to cause and effect.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 11:51 am

Most raw data from around the world shows the 1930s/40s as similar in temperature to the first decades of this century. (yes, Trump got the peak date wrong, but everything else was correct)

There is absolutely zero science or truth in Tamino’s insipid little self-opinionated rant.
Poor fella is a born loser who’s grip on actual science is remote , to say the least.
It is no wonder you are such a brain-washed drone if you rely on places like that.

Trump is totally correct…. ” climate change”, as defined by the IPCC, is one massive con job.

Basically every prediction ever made to push the scam have been wrong..
Huge lists exist of these idiotic predictions.

As Andy May has said… Warming by enhanced atmospheric CO2 has never been observed of measured anywhere on the planet.

There is no measured scientific evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2.

You think it has, then show us where.
Put a number to it in the last 45 years, using UAH data.

Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 12:57 pm

(yes, Trump got the peak date wrong, but everything else was correct)

No. He thought the temperature history went cooling → warming → cooling, which is the exact opposite of what actually happened. He didn’t get any part of that right. It’s a simple, verifiable fact that takes seconds to check, yet he couldn’t even get it right in a UN speech. It doesn’t bode well at all.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:25 pm

No, he said cooling => warming => climate change.
Now you’re changing what he said to try and make yourself right.
As for the narrative to which he referred, that is exactly how it played out. I lived it.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 1:40 pm

No, that’s not what he said. Here’s the exact quote:

‘You know, it used to be global cooling. If you look back years ago in the 1920s and 1930s, they said, global cooling will kill the world. We have to do something. Then they said global warming will kill the world, but then it started getting cooler…’

That’s clearly cooling → warming → cooling — the exact opposite of the historical record.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 3:09 pm

Yes. He’s referring to what the narrative was and how it evolved. You managed to leave out the piece where he started talking about the evolution to change from warming.

You alarmists are truly desperate to poke holes in anything Trump says. The whole world listens to him and understands his point. If you think this little gem you have found changes anything then by all means, you just hustle over the to the middle east and improve that peace deal.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 3:53 pm

Cooling from MWP to LIA,

warming to 1940s,

cooling to 1979 (nearly down to LIA temps)

then “climate change” warming mainly from urban data fakery and mal-adjustment.

But yes, it was the 1960, 70s when there was the global cooling scare.

Academics even tried to scare the then President

Brown-Uni
Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 5:27 pm

New knowledge is great.

Only took a less than 30 second Google search 🙂

Trump was correct.

As shown elsewhere, there were “scientists say” media reports of a “new ice age” in the period 1895 – 1924

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:28 pm

Only true if you look at the data after it’s been cooked by the charlatans.

Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2025 1:44 pm

So Judith Curry is wrong?

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 2:07 pm

If she is referencing GISS and other JUNK surface data sets, yes, she in incorrect.

Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 2:55 pm

But you’ve acknowledged that there was a warm period in the early 20th century. You no longer agree with the surface temperature record on that?

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 3:56 pm

GISS surface fabrication basically removed all the 1940’s peak..

It is a JUNK fabrication that doesn’t agree with most real data from around the world.

It should not be used for scientific purposes

Data from all around the globe shows that the 1930s,40s was as warm or warmer than the first two decades of this century.

.

Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 5:25 pm

You’re also claiming there was a global cooling scare in the 1920s. So, wouldn’t removing the 1940s peak actually support your position?

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 6:15 pm

What an incredibly stupid comment.

The scare was in the media, quoting actual scientists from 1895 to 1923

There was then a steep warming until around 1945…

(showing how wrong those scientists were)

… then cooling to 1979 and another “new ice age scare”

Then there was warming

(showing how wrong those scientists were.)

So-called “climate scientists” have been wrong about basically every prediction they have ever made.

They seem to be totally clueless. !!

Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 7:39 pm

There was also media coverage of global warming during that same period, as Tony Heller himself points out.

And as Peterson et al. showed, the ‘global cooling scare’ was largely a myth. Most scientists at the time were already focused on greenhouse warming.

https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/bams/89/9/2008bams2370_1.xml

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 8:38 pm

The global cooling scare in the 1970s was widespread…

Academics even sent letters to the President.

Literally HUNDREDS of “scientists say” media clipping

(links below are different pages)

1970s Global Cooling Scare | Real Climate Science

1970s Global Cooling Scare | Real Climate Science

And still DENYING that there were “scientists say” media reports between 1895 and 1930, despite links.

Trump was totally CORRECT when he said there were media report of cooling in the early 1900.s

That is just a FACT.. so get over it.

Brown-Uni
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 9:38 pm

Here is from the Guardian’s archives (The Guardian being one of the most unhinged rabid climate change is going to kill us outlets on the planet):

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/jun/12/ice-age-climate-change-archive

That was 1962. By the 1970’s the scare was in full swing. As I said, I was the only student in my Grade 8 class to stick up my hand and call bs on the alarmism. I’m calling bs on the alarmism again, decades later. But warming… oh “change” is what I’m calling bs on not glaciers advancing across the continents again.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:42 pm

 He thought the temperature history went cooling → warming → cooling”

WRONG… that is not what he said.

Doesn’t bode well that you can’t even understand what he said.

Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 2:14 pm

Yes, he did. Here is the quote once again:

‘You know, it used to be global cooling. If you look back years ago in the 1920s and 1930s, they said, global cooling will kill the world. We have to do something. Then they said global warming will kill the world, but then it started getting cooler…’

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 3:15 pm

He didn’t say it WAS cooling, he said back then “they said” global cooling would kill the world. That’s an exaggeration but the fears that we were returning to the Little Ice Age at that time were real. The fears re-emerged in the 70’s.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 4:34 pm

So, what credible scientist or researcher in the 1930s was expressing fear of a return to the Little Ice Age? That wouldn’t make sense given that the Earth was warming at the time, David.

If whoever that is happens to be who Trump was referencing, it only reinforces my point that he is completely out of his depth on climate science, and it’s absurd to treat him as someone trying to ‘reinvent’ it.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 6:09 pm

Wrong,

Media reports quoting actual scientists, show an “ice age scare” from 1895 -1924.

eg “1923 – “Scientist says Arctic ice will wipe out Canada” – Professor Gregory of Yale University, American representative to the Pan-Pacific Science Congress,”

Trump has far more knowledge than you do about climate scam history.

He is not “re-inventing” anything.. He is just highlighting the scam. !!

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 9:40 am

Little Ice Age was the 1970s. Sheesh.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 2:26 pm

lol.. a stuck record.. boring !! click/clack… click/clack…

Trump is totally correct…. ” climate change”, as defined by the IPCC, is one massive con job.

Basically every prediction ever made to push the scam have been wrong..
Huge lists exist of these idiotic predictions.

As Andy May has said… Warming by enhanced atmospheric CO2 has never been observed of measured anywhere on the planet.

There is no measured scientific evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2.

You think it has, then show us where.
Put a number to it in the last 45 years, using UAH data.

Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 3:02 pm

Trump is totally correct…. ” climate change”, as defined by the IPCC, is one massive con job.

How would he know that when he can’t even get the basic climate history straight?

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 4:01 pm

One miss-spoken date.. that is all your ignorant ranting is based on.

Remember, they turned off the teleprompter, so he was going from memory.

And yes

Trump is totally correct…. ” climate change”, as defined by the IPCC, is one massive con job.

You have yet to provide any evidence to the contrary.

Warming by enhanced atmospheric CO2 has never been observed of measured anywhere on the planet.

There is no measured scientific evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2.

Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 5:09 pm

One miss-spoken date..”

As shown elsewhere… Trump actually knew stuff I wasn’t aware of.

I admit to not knowing. 🙁 ….. But now I do ! 🙂

As shown elsewhere, there WAS a “new ice age” scare around the 1920

MarkW
Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 7:47 pm

Remember, someone at the UN turned of the teleprompter, so Trump was speaking from memory.

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 12:05 pm

Was there something in particular about the idea of “Gold Standard Science” you found objectionable, or was it just because it is Trump’s policy, and it threatens alarmist ideology?
Thought so.

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
October 13, 2025 12:18 pm

Yes. Trump thinks the globe was cooling in the early 20th century. Maybe he just never learned how to read a temperature graph.

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 12:26 pm

Swing, and a miss.

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
October 13, 2025 12:43 pm

Glad to see you being introspective.

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 12:51 pm

Go back to troll camp. You need new material.

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
October 13, 2025 5:00 pm

And as shown elsewhere. Trump was totally correct..

There was an “ice age” cooling scare in the 1920s

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:02 pm

Yes, he got the date wrong.. in a speech that was over and hour long.

Everything else he said about “climate change (TM)” was totally correct.

The warming period started around 1920 and peaked in the mid 1930s

Data from around the world shows that the peak was slightly higher than the first two decades of this century.

Interestingly, In some parts of the USA, the peak WAS in the 1920s

Texas-raw
Jimmie Dollard
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:06 pm

I repeat, he did not think the temperature was cooling. He was talking about doomsters like you claiming cooling then heating.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:29 pm

I notice you avoided answering the question asked. I would ask you why, but I already know the answer,

Rich Davis
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 3:18 pm

Congratulations, you identified a factual error in Trump’s speech, and totally fail to address the relevant points.

The question of whether climate is a hobbyhorse for growing government and taking away our freedoms doesn’t depend on whether Trump identified the exact time periods where temperatures cooled.

There is NO CLIMATE EMERGENCY!
Simple as that.

Everything done to address an imaginary emergency is harmful to human flourishing.

Reply to  Rich Davis
October 13, 2025 5:13 pm

Congratulations, you identified a factual error in Trump’s speech”

Thing is, Rich.. It wasn’t actually an error

The link I have provided elsewhere shows there WAS a cooling scare of “scientists say” in the media from 1895 -1924.

Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 5:23 pm
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 6:02 pm

Media reports show Trump was correct..

The links have been given

What don’t you understand.

And yes, there is MUCH contrary speculation is so-called “climate change”… is that the point you are trying to run away from

TRUMP WAS CORRECT.. from 1895 to 1924 there were media scares about a possible ice age .

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 9:43 am

So Tony Heller is wrong?

Common tactic. Can’t answer, so deflect.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 5:11 pm

Trump thinks the globe was cooling in the early 20th century”

Media shows there was an “ice age” scare from around 1895-1924

Trump was correct….

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 7:48 pm

Non-responsive to the question asked.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 12:48 pm

So because Trump got his dates wrong, but not the sequence of events, this is a reason to reverse the Gold Standard Science initiative?

This is the very definition of an ideological position, as well as two logical fallacies – this is a non-sequitur, and an ad-hominem.

If you have issues with the initiative, how about you spell them out instead of ORANGE MAN BAAAD!

I’ll even help you out, here’s the link to the announcement.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/05/restoring-gold-standard-science/

Reply to  PariahDog
October 13, 2025 12:58 pm

He didn’t just miss the date. He inverted the entire temperature history. The real sequence was warming → cooling → warming, not the other way around. For something that basic, it’s remarkable he still got it wrong in a UN address.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:27 pm

He wasn’t referring to actual temps, he was referring to the climate narrative which went:
cooling => warming => climate change
The latter being “right” for anything that can be spun as change, even when well within statistical ranges for normal.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:31 pm

Depends on where you start “history”. If you start it at the end of the Holocene Optimum, it’s been cooling for most of the last 5000 years, interrupted by a warm period about every 1000 years, with the current warm period being merely the latest.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 2:34 pm

If you wish to argue sequence, here’s the temp data and what happened. We had cooling in the late 1800’s. In the 1970’s, the narrative was that we were returning to the cooling period of the late 1800’s and that this was the dominating temperature trend for the foreseeable future. Entirely consistent with what Trump said:

what-trump-said
Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 2:42 pm

No. Your own graph shows warming in the 1920s and 1930s. Trump said it was cooling during that period.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 2:52 pm

OK now you are just being deliberately obtuse.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 3:12 pm

Trump said it was cooling during that period.

No, he said back then “they said”. He was quoting not what was happening but what people said was happening. Sad that you do not understand the difference.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 4:42 pm

His implication is abundantly clear.

He’s alleging that scientists kept changing the story from cooling, to warming, to ‘climate change’ as the temperature record evolved through the 20th century.

But even if your interpretation were right, whoever the ‘they’ in his quote refers to clearly wasn’t credible, since the Earth was warming during the 1930s.

No matter how you look at it, his statement shows a gross lack of understanding.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 6:04 pm

But Trump said 1920, and from 1895 to 1924 there were ice age scares in the media “scientists say”

Trump was correct. !

Trump’s statements how he has a lot more awareness of the “climate scam than you do. !

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 9:43 pm

He’s alleging that scientists kept changing the story from cooling, to warming, to ‘climate change’ as the temperature record evolved through the 20th century.

Yup, that’s what he’s alleging. And those of us old enough are saying to ourselves, yup, I REMEMBER that happening. That is our lived experience talking and you want to reprogram out memories for us because you are certain you are right and we are wrong.

You’re certainty is misplaced, I tire of this, you’ve wasted enough of my life already. I have better things to do like going outside and noticing its really nice day.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 13, 2025 9:48 pm

Ok, David. Have a nice day. You’ve earned it.

Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 12:05 am

“I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.” – Alan Greenspan

Thank you for your TDS demonstration. Now back to the whole point of this thread, the Gold Standard Science initiative. What about it don’t you like?

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:05 pm

History shows a very warm Arctic in 1922 and much cooler in 1976

Arctic-1922-vs-1976
Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 2:24 pm

Trump doesn’t seem to know that. He thinks the Arctic was cooling in the 1920s, not warming.

Also, see:

https://tamino.wordpress.com/2014/01/28/judith-curry-responds-sort-of/

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 4:06 pm

Again the link to the rancid Tamino, not realising all he has is mindless propaganda,

So funny !!

As long as you use that travesty of scientific ignorance to get your information, it is not wonder you are totally WRONG about basically everything to do with “climate change”

Yes, Trump got the decade incorrect, they had turned off the teleprompter , so he was going by memory.

Do you really DENY the cooling scare after the 1930s,40s peak ???

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 9:49 am

He thinks the Arctic was cooling in the 1920s, not warming.

No he was not thinking that.
He is pointing out media reports of “scientists say…” made that claim.

You seem to think media reports are perfect, truthful, accurate, and should be taken unquestioningly on faith.

You should date Greta. You two have a lot in common.

Reply to  Sparta Nova 4
October 14, 2025 1:09 pm

You seem to think media reports are perfect, truthful, accurate, and should be taken unquestioningly on faith.

Actually, it’s the contrarians making that argument. They are the ones pointing to media reports from the 1970s to claim there was a scientific consensus about an impending ice age.

Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 11:47 pm

Yes, there were media report from 1895 -1930 panicking about a new ice age.. from top scientists at Yale and similar places.

Thanks for finally realising that point

Nowhere near the hundreds and hundreds for the 1970’s ice age scare which rabid alarmists and climate cultists try to pretend didn’t exist.

But they did exist

Trump was absolutely correct.

John Hultquist
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:09 pm

You, Eclang, take DJT’s words literally. That’s a mistake.
You missed this about Trump: “the press takes him literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally“. This was written by journalist Salena Zito in 2016 to describe the differing perceptions of Donald Trump. 

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:13 pm

Since Trump’s statement is 100% accurate, what’s your beef?

Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:36 pm

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/05/23/climate-change-alarmism-as-a-class-war/

O, and not tamino again. you have a lot of catching up to do.

KevinM
Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
October 13, 2025 9:43 pm

Do you think Eclang might actually be Tamino? I don’t know anything about Tamino but the 2008ish “Open Mind” website was trendy for a while. I remember it not standing up well to criticism and falling into repetitive circular reasoning that sucked in bored commenters.

youcantfixstupid
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 1:53 pm

People still cook food with DUNG! If that isn’t enough to show the scam for what it is than you’ll never be convinced of reality…your position would be far more defensible if you and your ilk gave up ALL the benefits of modern society…after all if you really believed the crap you spew you’d have to believe you are killing the planet simply by posting on the internet..time to make your own clothes out of whatever ‘natural’ material you can find, go live in a hut somewhere living off the land…

Solar, Wind & batteries can never hope to power a modern industrial civilization OR provide the over 6000 products that rely on hydrocarbons to the great benefit society today.

You are delusional if you think otherwise.

Reply to  youcantfixstupid
October 13, 2025 2:44 pm

People cooking with dung does not absolve Trump of misstating a century of climate data.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 4:09 pm

Thanks for finally admitting it was a mis-statement… of just one date.

Everything else he said was spot-on.

Trump is totally correct…. ” climate change”, as defined by the IPCC, is one massive con job.

Warming by enhanced atmospheric CO2 has never been observed of measured anywhere on the planet.

There is no measured scientific evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2.

Reply to  bnice2000
October 13, 2025 5:19 pm

I admit to not knowing what Trump did know. 🙁

Now we all know. 🙂

That there was a “new ice age” scare of “scientists say” in the media from 1895-1925

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 9:52 am

Trump of misstating a century of climate data.

Wrong. Trump was not stating or misstating climate data.
He was talking to historical media publications.

youcantfixstupid
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 1:20 pm

No but it DAMNS a half-century of dogmatism and lies but you and your cult. I’m sick and tired of your ‘teams’ holier than thou attitude, especially while you maintain a high standard of living, posting on the internet while there are people still COOKING WITH DUNG!

Instead of wasting trillions of dollars on farcical attempts to power a modern society with windmills and unicorn farts, that money would have been far better spent investing in helping Africa develop their vast hydrocarbon resources and energy infrastructure.

Instead of the CFL (yes I’m Canadian) running ads patting their players on the back for going to Africa to help carry water 20 miles, maybe invest that money into helping them build the infrastructure so they don’t HAVE to carry the water! GEEZ, how freakin’ stupid can we be.

Reply to  youcantfixstupid
October 14, 2025 1:37 pm

I never argued there are no people in the modern world still cooking with dung. That is a misconception on your behalf.

MarkW
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 2:42 pm

And yet another lie about what others are saying.
youcantfixstupid objected to your whines about fossil fuel usage while there are still people cooking with dung. He never said anything about what you said or believe about those same people.

Can’t you even attempt to debate honestly, for once?

youcantfixstupid
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 6:09 pm

No, you just minimized the suffering by trying to redirect and take another shot at Trump. Both your TDS and lack of empathy for real suffering is telling.

You don’t care about real suffering and making the world a better place. Without knowing much about you I would guess you think the world would be a much better place subtracting say 7 billion people starting with Africa.

You probably think sending an estimated 70,000 people to Brazil to perform no useful work is somehow ‘worth it’, without even once thinking of condemning it as dumping stupid amounts of that evil “CO2” in to the environment (O, and apparently cutting down rain forest to build roads).

Trump may be a buffoon at the best of times but he’s saying the truth out loud, calling out the climate change & Net Zero scams for what they are. A horrible and wasteful use of trillions of dollars that could have been far better used helping real people build useful infrastructure so they wouldn’t have to cook with dung and carry water 20 miles just to survive.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 4:21 pm

Seems Trump know far more than you do

Yes, it seems Trump was TOTALLY CORRECT…
.
There was a global cooling scare around 1920 !!

The List Of 120 Years Of Climate Scares By Scientists | 710 WOR | Mark Simone

  • 1895 – Geologists Think the World May Be Frozen Up Again – New York Times, February 1895
  • 1912 – Prof. Schmidt Warns Us of an Encroaching Ice Age – New York Times, October 1912
  • 1923 – “Scientist says Arctic ice will wipe out Canada” – Professor Gregory of Yale University, American representative to the Pan-Pacific Science Congress, – Chicago Tribune
  • 1923 – “The discoveries of changes in the sun’s heat and the southward advance of glaciers in recent years have given rise to conjectures of the possible advent of a new ice age” – Washington Post
  • 1924 – MacMillan Reports Signs of New Ice Age – New York Times, Sept 18, 1924
Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 9:25 pm

You know it’s bad for the contrarians when Tony Heller ends up being the one contradicting them.

Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 3:14 am

Denial of reports made by professors and other institutions.

Tony was only reporting the ones he needed to report., isn’t contradicting anyone..

It is the climate “scientists” contradicting each other, showing just how little they actually know.. !

Your original post was absolutely WRONG

TRUMP WAS CORRECT.. admit to the facts and evidence, and get over it

Reply to  bnice2000
October 14, 2025 7:57 am

The data and reports from the ETCW period clearly show scientists observing and discussing ongoing warming, particularly in the Arctic. So, if anything, the credible researchers of the time were those documenting and forecasting further warming, not cooling.

If Trump was supposedly referring to a few fringe mentions of global cooling in the 1920s, that only reinforces the point that he is completely out of his depth when it comes to climate science.

Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 1:02 pm

FAIL. !!

Your TDS is at such an advanced stage that you just cannot allow yourself to accept that HE WAS CORRECT.

Trump knows FAR MORE about these things than you ever will.

There were “scientists say” media reports in the period 1895-1930 positing a new ice age. !

MarkW
Reply to  bnice2000
October 14, 2025 2:43 pm

A three year old knows more about these things, and many others as well, then Eclang does.

Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 1:13 pm

One other thing to note is that those few reports mentioning global cooling back then may not even qualify as scientific disagreement. They were simply scientists testing ideas in a field that was still in its infancy. Climate science in the 1930s was nowhere near as advanced as it is today.

So not only did Trump misstate climate history, he’s also drawing a false equivalence between the more speculative science of that era and the mature, data driven climate science of today.

Reply to  Eclang
October 13, 2025 11:59 pm

Trump himself is deeply uniformed about the basic history of climate science.

He has a far better understanding of it than you do, and he regularly and accurately sums it up for those who don’t understand what it’s all about. It’s a hoax.

TBeholder
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 12:39 am

But Trump himself is deeply uniformed about the basic history of climate science. The early 20th century saw warming (1910-1945), followed by a modest cooling from about 1945-1975, and then the modern warming trend since. His conclusion “it’s the greatest con job ever” is the very definition of an ideological position: one formed before understanding or acknowledging the evidence.

Now please point out in which way the above is substantially different from «Wrong! The thimble rig operator first moved the third thimble, not first. Third! Therefore, all this dirty libel about honest shell game being some sort of a scam is by definition pure prejudice and not true. In your face!»

Petey Bird
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 8:21 am

Trump is a politician. Of course his position is ideology. A different one. So what?
Is he claiming to have done scientific interventions?
I am all for the study of past observations and the formation of hypotheses, but these cannot predict the future or prove causation. Neither do they prove that governments can control the weather.
Academics seem to have a compulsive need to claim that they know all things with certainty. In fact they often know little about reality.

Rick C
Reply to  Eclang
October 14, 2025 8:40 am

So he got the dates wrong – big deal – we all know that there have been several shifts between cooling and warming periods. Trumps point that the alarmist theory was that CO2 caused “global warming” was falsified by periods of cooling while CO2 steadily increased. This fact was an embarrassment to the warmists. Their response was not to admit their theory was wrong but rather to change their terminology to “climate change” thereby allowing the claim that both warming trends and cooling trends where anthropogenic. That is something Trump was entirely correct about.

MarkW
Reply to  Rick C
October 14, 2025 2:45 pm

Someone at the UN turned off Trump’s teleprompter, so he was quoting from memory.

Bob
October 13, 2025 11:06 am

Very nice Dr Doshi. Lying and cheating is a bad thing it is to our everlasting shame that we have put up with it for as long as we have.

MarkW
Reply to  Bob
October 13, 2025 1:32 pm

Not just tolerated, in many cases, rewarded.

October 13, 2025 11:36 am

I appreciate that the May 23, 2025 Executive Order, Restoring Gold Standard Science, is mentioned.

That EO includes this directive in Sec.4:

“(c) When using scientific information in agency decision-making, employees shall transparently acknowledge and document uncertainties, including how uncertainty propagates throughout any models used in the analysis.”

Even among skeptics of climate alarm, it seems not to be widely appreciated that the pre-stabilized, time-step-iterated, large-grid, discrete-layer, parameter-tuned-to-hindcast “climate” models should never have been put forward in the investigation of climate system response to incremental CO2.

Why not? Because it should have been obvious from the beginning that a rapid buildup of uncertainty, as the iteration proceeds, cannot be avoided. Even an imaginary model, perfected in mathematical representation of every physical climate system process, suffers at least a ~+/-4C uncertainty (on a 95% confidence basis) after a year’s worth of time-steps. Any projection of a future climate state, from any of these models, using any scenario of CO2 emissions, tells us nothing about what ought to be expected to happen.

More here about the application of recognized methods of handling uncertainty in such cases, to arrive at an estimate of uncertainty. The Grok AI agent did well with this prompt, in my view.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j56NA0qRZvVMdosxjzOkLoXvwbKg9Ds1/view?usp=sharing

Thank you for listening.

Reply to  David Dibbell
October 14, 2025 6:02 am

More here about the application of recognized methods of handling uncertainty in such cases, to arrive at an estimate of uncertainty. The Grok AI agent did well with this prompt, in my view.

Time series analysis is never done to eliminate auto-correlation and seasonality. A changing standard deviation, i.e., minimum temps w/o a corresponding increase in max temps, will result in a spurious trends in Tavg and anomalies.

altipueri
October 13, 2025 12:17 pm

How do we get the climate rot out of businesses and government?

At a business meeting today on cyber security I met what I thought was an interesting company until I went to their website and saw this:
“The Group is profoundly conscious of the threat climate change poses to the economy, nature and society at large and we have committed to take action immediately in order to :

Halve our greenhouse gas emissions before 2030
Achieve net zero emissions before 2050
Disclose our progress on a yearly basis

Bailie Group is a proud member of the SME Climate Hub, a global initiative that empowers small and medium sized companies to take climate action and build more resilient businesses. By joining the SME Climate Hub, we commit to lowering our impact on the environment through authentic action, halving our emissions by 2030. In making the SME Climate Commitment, we have joined the UN Climate Change High Level Champion’s Race to Zero campaign.”
===
This company is a major supplier to GCHQ and many of its staff are ex-GCHQ cyber experts.

The Website: https://www.cdsds.uk/
===
Also today I went to a talk by Nick Clegg, former UK Deputy Prime Minister and the man who banned Donald Trump from Facebook. Clegg is still full on about the horrors of climate change.

Reply to  altipueri
October 13, 2025 2:54 pm

There is no such phenomena as climate change because most of the earth is water, rocks, sand, ice and snow. Activities of humans can have no effect on the vast Pacific ocean, the Andes mountains, or the Sahara desert.

Another reason human activities can no effect on climate is that a majority of humans live in poverty. They consume little resources. However, in some countries activities of such gathering plants for fire wood and animal food can cause desertification. In urban areas activities of humans can change in local climate due the UHI effect.

Michael Flynn
Reply to  Harold Pierce
October 13, 2025 6:42 pm

There is no such phenomena as climate change . . ,

Climate changes – always has, and I assume always will.

Human activities have a completely unknown effect on future climate states. There is no minimum change in inputs to a deterministic chaotic system which may result in completely unforeseen outcomes. Even a photon which goes here, rather than there, due to the uncertainty principle, may result in, say, all liquid water on Earth fleeing to outer space! Ridiculous? Yes – but possible.

I assume it won’t, just like I assume that the Sun will rise tomorrow, that I’ll still be alive, and so on.

So far, so good. As Mark Twain said, “Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get.” Good luck with “predicting” either.

MarkW
October 13, 2025 1:04 pm

When were the United Nations, the European Union ever bastions of rigorous inquiry?
They have both been politicians play things since the get go.

Denis
October 13, 2025 1:51 pm

There might be a bit of Lysenkoism in this article. Dr. Campbells “revelation” that recipients of covid vaccines are more likely to get cancer than those who did not mentions nothing about age adjusting the data. Covid vaccines were strongly urged for old people and it is a well established fact that cancer risks increase about 30 fold as age increases from childhood to old age. Is the chart he shows simply a result of old people getting old and being more likely to have received the vaccine?

October 13, 2025 1:53 pm

Excellent points. In any era zealots subjugate reality to their dogma. The recent so-called “transgender” (there is no such thing in biology) fad is the latest example.

I had never heard of Lysenko until I read this and went down a rabbit hole about Lysenkoism. Interestingly, modern genetics seems to have modified the strict Darwinian idea that genes are passed on unaltered, and that random genetic mutations are responsible for genetic variation over time. In the last few decades epigenetic research has discovered that gene expression can be modified by environmental influences, and in the case of humans at least, lifestyle and even nurturing choices. “DNA is destiny” was the song for decades and now we know that lifestyle choices can modify certain traits. It’s not entirely random. So Lysenko looks to be partially correct about one aspect of genetics despite his weird science influenced by Marxist dogma.

Forrest Gardener
October 13, 2025 6:28 pm

It amazes me how much energy has been devoted to responding to a stream of clangers.

My suggestion to those who seek to reduce this utter waste of time is to put a throttle on clangeristic tactics. Something along the lines of the increasing delays which apply to people trying to guess passwords might prove effective.

No delay for the first few clangers. Then a one hour delay for the next few. Then a 12 hour delay. Then a 1 week delay.

Anything which would cause people to make fewer but better thought out posts would be welcome.

Reply to  Forrest Gardener
October 13, 2025 10:04 pm

As much as the clangers dirty up threads, letting them speak unfettered and responding to them unfettered is an important function in the climate debate that few platforms other than WUWT allow.

The reason it is important is because it challenges us. Every once in a (long) while a clanger makes a claim that upon investigation turns out to be true. Members of the Union of Concerned Scientists used to visit here frequently when discussions were often far more in depth and technical. They got their butts handed to them over and over, but scored a point here or there. They fled the field with the score hundreds, perhaps thousands to three. That’s part of how I know that I’m on the right side of this debate. Their side makes arguments that fall apart under scrutiny, but our side must always test ourselves against theirs lest we make assumptions of our own that are wrong.

This particular clanger is new to me, I wanted to see what s/he is all about. The answer is it is a very shallow clanger, with a poor grasp of facts and a mindless fixation on a meaningless detail. If that’s the best their side can offer these days, it means the tide is turning.

Forrest Gardener
Reply to  davidmhoffer
October 14, 2025 1:12 am

Agreed apart from the slight fettering of the unfettered.

I see nothing to be gained by providing an unfettered platform for those doing the equivalent of endlessly blowing a vuvuzela during a football match.

Another alternative would be an ability to block clangers on an individual level. They can clang all they want and people can read a less clanged up discussion.

Reply to  Forrest Gardener
October 14, 2025 3:34 pm

Yahoo Finance allows me to mute clangers which really cleans up the threads. That way those who want to engage or follow along can, those that don’t simply see a fine print note that “this user is muted”. I know enabling such a feature is probably more work than it sounds like, but it would be a fair resolution in my opinion.

October 13, 2025 10:57 pm

‘The restoration of reason’?
The continueing zero sum game of supporting american hegemony in a changing world?
Sounds like a losing game of a mad man.
Trump is a part of that mechanism who pretends to be otherwise..

observa
October 13, 2025 11:15 pm

Lefties don’t deal in tradeoffs only absolutes. In the case of EVs there’s a take-up reluctance problem with long refuelling times. That can only be overcome with high capacity supercharging via the grid but accessing that power capability is extremely costly so they delved into their fickles box of tricks for some battery buffering-
(193) EV Charger Fire in British Columbia: Hidden Batteries! – YouTube
Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

TBeholder
October 13, 2025 11:40 pm

Was this text ghostwritten by a schoolkid as a proposed amendment to the Amended Narrative on ickypedia, or something?

Richard Dawkins

Now that is a name one would not expect to get dropped in contrast with a bunch of arrogant dilettantes, quacks and communists!
He popped in Taleb’s hunting territory and was repeatedly mauled for «selfish-gene narrative trumpeted by such aggressive journalists as Richard Dawkins and Steven Pinker» and more ridiculous (but very “rationalist”) nonsense.
People on Twitter spanked him for his “history of Mesopotamia” (in Outgrowing God).
His exercises at riding his hobby horse (atheism) led to his methodology being condemned by a philosopher who started with «I have no quarrel at all with his argument…» in the book under juicy name “How Dawkins Got Pwned”. As its author summarized the root of the problem elsewhere:

Richard Dawkins has referred to his beliefs […] as Einsteinian religion. Dawkins’ description of this creed is poetic and extremely reminiscent of Emerson’s Divinity School Address. Has he never heard of Transcendentalism? Is he unaware that Emerson was a Unitarian minister?

Consider that if an atheist and a Catholic (Chesterton) both warn about attempts to circumvent separation of Church and State via paper-thin layer of secularization, maybe it’s worth a look?

Under the iron patronage of Joseph Stalin

Which leads us to the main points this Narrative implicitly smuggles.
See, it was not a smelly, toxic wave of internal, that is academy politics splashing out, as one might assume. No such thing! On the contrary, good old Soviet Academy of Sciences (upon getting rid of that God Delusion™) was a pure place of crystal spires and togas, and would remain such forever (along with Communism). But then stupid Stalin came from outside, personally broke all the microscopes and installed some quack. And purged the innocent scientists who dindu nothing wrong. That’s what must have happened.

The result? Purges of genuine scientists,

…who otherwise were exempt from all purges, as befits a pet mandarinate of Harvard (as seen from XXI century, anyhow). And of course, all the people on the other side of the stupid mess were genuine scientists. Also (and even more to the point), responsible people.

a gulag

replaced gulags with

…!

How to put it delicately… I cannot do so in my own words, thus must resort to folklore here. It seems that Dr Tilak K. Doshi is one of the people a Soviet era joke described as “The Chukchee is a writer, not a reader!”. Or does he have a schoolkid ghostwriter, indeed?

famines that claimed millions of lives;

…in stark contrast with the glorious agricultural paradise which Soviet Union so famously was as late as 1 year before Lysenko, presumably. And of course specifically the opponents of Lysenko are certainly not guilty of leaving the peasants without food. Uh huh.

Jimbobla
October 14, 2025 12:41 am

Any problems Fauci may face will be solved by a trip to the grave before they ever occur. Probably why he was chosen to spearhead the Covid scam.

Jimbobla
October 14, 2025 12:50 am

Funding of “science” and “research” by government must be stopped. It all leads to quackery at the highest levels. Get government out of universities and schools of higher learning (lower learning).

MarkW
Reply to  Jimbobla
October 16, 2025 6:27 am

It’s only been in the last few decades that the idea that government should be the one to fund basic research has taken hold. For the vast majority of history, private individuals and companies paid for the research that interested them.

October 14, 2025 11:26 pm

In plain language it’s Zugzwang in the kakistocracy.