Honey, I Shrunk the Power Plant!

Kevin Kilty

 In May 2024, Mark Christie, Chairman of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC), had this to say during U.S.Senate testimony.

“The United States is heading for a reliability crisis. I do not use the term “crisis” for melodrama, but because it is an accurate description of what we are facing. I think anyone would regard an increasing threat of system-wide, extensive power outages as a crisis.

In summary, the core problem is this: Dispatchable generating resources are retiring far too quickly and in quantities that threaten our ability to keep the lights on. The problem generally is not the addition of intermittent resources, primarily wind and solar, but the far too rapid subtraction of dispatchable resources, especially coal and gas.”

The executives of large systems operators like PJM and MISO have said the same, as has the North American Electric Reliability Council (NERC). Mark Christie is only wrong about one thing – the adoption of renewable energy is a contributor to the crisis.

Slowly, too slowly I’d say, it is dawning on people that a reliable network supplying adequate supplies of affordable energy is one of the few things that separates, Massachusetts say, from becoming the equivalent of Albania; or more to the point of this essay preventing Wyoming from becoming like Afghanistan. This is not a made-up crisis.

Chapter 18

Back in the 2020 legislative session, the Wyoming legislature passed a bill adding Chapter 18 to Title 37, the enabling legislation for the Wyoming Public Service Commission. The purpose of Chapter 18 was to head-off in the only way that people could imagine, the impacts of EPAs endangerment finding and the fallout from Massachusetts vs. EPA – shuttering coal mines and also coal and gas fired power plants within the state. Its intent is pretty clear from this statement:

“Consistent with the objective of ensuring Wyoming electric utilities maintain access to reliable and cost effective electric generation resources, the public service commission shall establish by rule energy portfolio standards that will maximize the use of dispatchable and reliable low carbon electricity.”

Although it isn’t spelled out explicitly, and wiggle room is available for other technologies such as burning hydrogen, the term “low carbon electricity” means Carbon Capture, Use and Storage (CCUS). In fact, we can probably dump the “U” from this because while CO2 is a valuable commodity, it isn’t clear that a market for CO2 exists within reach of the coal and gas plants affected. There are 2-4 billion barrels of oil recoverable by CO2 flooding of fields in the Rocky Mountain region out of the 22 billion barrels of recoverable oil remaining in those fields. What this means for “Use” of CO2 isn’t clear to me and a recent order from the Wyoming PSC reveals that it isn’t clear to the PSC or affected utilities either.[1] There’s no point discussing the technical details of CCUS or its use in stimulating oil production further at this time.

Senate File 92

A bill before the Wyoming Legislature this session is intended to remove the provisions of Chapter 18 almost completely. It is currently stalled in committee and very likely may die there.  A standard way of killing a bill that is in danger of passing if it reaches the floor, is to bottle it up in committee. As I told several people, “I know how politics works. I often hate to see it work.”

On Monday February 3 was scheduled a committee hearing intended to decide on advancing this bill. It was quite clear as the hearing progressed that the committee had no interest in advancing the bill. I was called upon to make a case for the bill only on January 31 along with a staff member of the CO2 Coalition, Byron Soepyan. Byron has done research on the costs of adding CCUS to existing thermal plants and also its costs in building new plants with CCUS incorporated from the beginning. I felt I could use his numbers to make an argument for the unnecessary waste that CCUS represents. However, after the usual protocol of having public officials weigh in on the bill, and then allowing lobbyists for the affected industries to make their positions clear, all further public commenters were reduced to a two-minutes limitation. Period. Byron and I had no time to make our cases clear.

However, the testimony of officials and lobbyists was informative in several ways. First, it revealed that there is a wedge issue involved that Byron and I knew nothing about. This is the issue of primacy. Primacy means that a state has the authority to enforce state laws and regulations instead of EPA regulations. Right now only three states, Wyoming, North Dakota, and Louisiana are allowed primacy over regulation of class IV wells for CCS. Everyone had concerns that Senate File 92 would upset this primacy status, and make a number of industries subject to getting permits from multiple agencies – something they dread which then puts their interests in maintaining cheap power against other costs. It would have been helpful to have known about this in advance.

The head of Wyoming’s Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) suggested a rephrasing of the bill that he felt would resolve this issue. It was a constructive suggestion. His suggestion, though, would have made supporters of the bill feel it was watered down. Probably it would have not mollified the primacy warriors. Suggestions that leave everyone dissatisfied are sometimes the basis for progress. However, that was not proved true here.

Second, The chairperson of our PSC testified, not clearly as to position on the bill in question, but appeared to assure the committee that the Commission would still have power to examine the prudence of proposed CCUS facilities in any event.

Stating that the PSC would remain undeterred in its mission to ensure that investments in electric service are prudently made should comfort those of us worried about the course of grid reliability and service affordability.[2] Yet, there are reasons to believe that the chairperson’s definition of prudence and that of people who frequent this website are not aligned.

At an energy conference held in September 2022 in Laramie, this person made these statements.  First, “This isn’t your Grandmother’s PSC.” That, in her words, the old mission of reliability and affordability is outdated. She also said quite clearly that, paraphrasing here, “Coal is not the enemy; CO2 is.” and then “We will never allow a coal-fired facility that emits CO2.” Possibly, prudent means weighing economic value against CO2 orthodoxy. 

Finally, speaking of CO2 orthodoxy, I expected but still found it surprising the extent that the typical concerns  dominated the statements of people opposing the bill. Concerns about public perception of Wyoming industry, the desires of voters in other states with utility ties to Wyoming, concerns about climate change, fears that we continue to put CO2 into the atmosphere. The orthodoxy about CO2 is now well cemented in the minds of a huge segment of the public. My guess is that Senate File 92  dies in committee.

Attacking CCUS

Byron has produced figures for the costs of CCUS based on the numbers provided by the U.S. Energy Information Administration and the National Energy Technology Laboratory, to comply with Biden’s 2024 EPA rule. Summarized for existing coal power plants they are: 1) capital costs of $4.1 billion to retrofit six long-term Wyoming coal power plants, 2) 24% net power output reduction and 3) a 44% increase in operation and maintenance (O&M) costs.

Costs for incorporating CCS into a natural gas plant from inception are different per category, but the end effect on utility rates is roughly the same. Figure 1, below, shows a highly simplified

Figure 1.

rate setting algorithm. With CCS the O&M costs rise by 44%. Taxes, depreciation and base rate  costs will rise in some way proportional to the $4.1 billion in capital costs, but in the case of a utility like Rocky Mountain Power with ratepayers in three states, the costs would have to be made proportional in some way. In the best case, Wyoming’s share would rise by one-sixth, or $700 million, which is an increase of about 33% over current values. Thus, costs rise by an average of, say, a factor of around 1.4.

What people fail to realize is that the calculation of rate structure has sales volume in the denominator which Figure 1 shows. Because of the parasitic CCS load, capacity of the plant is reduced by a factor of  0.76. The result is that commodity costs from this source of service rise over 1.8 times what it had been originally. This estimate compares favorably with LCOE in a design study done by the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) of a 300MW advanced supercritical AUSC which showed an increase of 1.8.

Obviously there are other generating sources, and overall rates won’t rise necessarily by 1.8. There are subsidies that will pay for some of this in a hidden manner. However, there are times even now when thermal plants produce nearly all the power being consumed and CCUS will just reduce that available power. Figure 2 shows the situation in the last week of January in the PacifiCorp balancing authority (PACE). During the bitter cold, wind was generally absent.

Figure 2.

Note the constant ramping of the thermal plants needed to balance wind/solar, which obviously have priority. Note in particular that coal never seems to reach above 4,800MW. That is the coal capacity we have left in PACE. Note, finally, at midnight on the 29th that wind is significantly gone, having slowed to under 10% capacity factor. Figure 3 shows PACE working to deliver increasing amounts of energy to Idaho Power throughout the period shown, and gradually increasing rates to Los Angeles Department of Water and Power throughout the night and morning of January 29-January 30. At this same time PACE was drawing energy from the Western Area Power Authority (WACM) at a rate of 1,200MW. Imagine the same situation with the coal assets in PACE reduced because of CCS to a maximum of 3,600MW. In that case we would be drawing perhaps 2,400MW from WACM. Could WACM deliver?

Figure 3.

Figure 4 shows that generation of energy in WACM at this time includes almost nothing from wind. WACM is in the wind drought also. What is contributing mightily at WACM is coal, under the same pressures to convert or die as coal elsewhere.

Figure 4.

In Wyoming we have gotten used to feeling that we have an abundance of energy. Yet, with increasing demand and closing or conversion of plants, we are terribly close to having inadequate energy supply during common winter conditions. Even with balancing area interchange, the remaining coal-fired plants are becoming the most valuable resources on the grid, critically needed for balancing wind/solar. Yet, adding CCS to existing plants is equivalent to closing one out of every four. It is a stealth plant closure through shrinkage and it is presently the policy of Wyoming to require CCUS for combustion/thermal plants.

Benefits of CCS?

Are there compensating benefits to CCS that make up for the expense and risk of unreliable and inadequate energy supplies? No. The benefits come from complying with an imposed orthodoxy and placating a class of customers many of whom live in other states. One of the great ironies here is that while Rocky Mountain Power believes its CO2 emissions will decline by 50 million tonnes per year once they close plants or convert all plants to CCS, by 2030 China will emit this much every 22 hours. We dig holes at great effort, they fill them in effortlessly. It does nothing toward advancing the dubious goal of reducing CO2, or improving the climate, to say nothing about generating lots of new high-paying jobs.

Why all the noise?

Given the cost, risks, and lack of benefits, why is there lots of support for CCUS? Cheyenne perhaps suggests one answer. Cheyenne lies at the intersection of two major rail networks with associated long haul internet backbone fiber, two major interstate highways, and a satellite uplink/downlink and satellite flying operation. For these reasons, and its cheap local electrical energy, a number of social media, data centers and AI facilities want to locate there. However, the wokeness of these companies dictates that they use clean energy. Powerful business interests and state politicians see all this as economic opportunities.[3] In addition there are plans for building a green hydrogen hub and even trying direct air capture of CO2. Then, there are subsidies to harvest.

Unfortunately Wyoming ratepayers are at risk of being dragooned into providing support for this effort through undoubtedly higher electrical rates. There is no other possibility.  

References:

1- Wyoming Public Service Commission (http://psc.wyo.gov) 20000-660-EA-24           Record No.: 17536  Order No.:30681, 1/23/2025, Rocky Mountain Power, IN THE MATTER OF THE APPLICATION OF ROCKY MOUNTAIN POWER FOR AUTHORITY TO ESTABLISH FINAL LOW-CARBON ENERGY PORTFOLIO STANDARDS, Memorandum Opinion, Findings and Order

2- One mention of prudence in investment occurs in Chapter 18 (bolding here is mine) – “Beginning in 2023, and occurring every second year thereafter, the commission shall report to the joint minerals, business and economic development interim committee and the joint corporations, elections and political subdivisions interim committee regarding implementation of the electricity portfolio standards and recommend whether it should be continued, modified or repealed. To the extent the electricity portfolio standards are modified or discontinued, nothing shall impair the ability of a public utility that has incurred costs to comply with the electricity portfolio standards to recover its prudently incurred costs as authorized by the commission.”

But what takes precedence, prudence or recovery of incurred costs in an effort to aid the climate?

3-People will argue that CCUS has financial benefits if it is used for enhanced oil recovery. This idea is so complex that a separate essay is needed to explain it. Yet, the financial difficulties experienced by the few full-scale attempts at CCUS provide a powerful counterargument. If there is any real industrial future to CCUS, it has only now reached the innovation stage. As Rogers’s classic work on the “Diffusion of Innovation” revealed, innovators often get wiped out.

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davidinredmond
February 10, 2025 2:22 pm

Sad. Commissioner Mary Throne. Ivy league degrees in history and law. Looks like all the PSC members have lib arts and law education. Not so good for providing effective, cheap, reliable energy. HTF do you burn coal w/o emitting CO2? And why is CO2 bad again?

I was going to guess Teton County, but seems like the disease is spreading. Jackson was a beautiful town until the investment bankers discovered it in the ’80s.

Reply to  davidinredmond
February 10, 2025 2:50 pm

Jackson was a beautiful town until the investment bankers discovered it in the ’80s.”

I went to Jackson in 1975 and never wanted to leave. Went again in 2001 and couldn’t get out of there fast enough. Those investment bankers should suffer for what they did to that place.

Kevin Kilty
Reply to  davidinredmond
February 10, 2025 3:56 pm

A reasonable public commenter can prod the commission into asking the utility company the right questions during general rate cases, or in hearings of public necessity and convenience. The utility will likely answer truthfully. I only say likely because I have been in meetings with utility executives where they have made statements providing they are confused about some fundamentals of grid operation. I’m serious. They may not know the truth.

Now, how that new information gets used is the issue.

Rud Istvan
February 10, 2025 2:38 pm

Some data. The only operating (at scale) CCUS generating plant in the world is SaskPowers Boundary Dam unit 3. It was originally justified as capturing CO2 from coal combustion for nearby tertiary oil recovery. It was projected to cost $1.3 billion but actually cost $1.5 billion. It was projected to have 85% uptime, but after years of additional tweaking never acheived 60%, averaging 55% after tweaks upping availability from about 40% initially. It was projected to have a parasitic electricity load of 25%, the actual is 35%. A disaster.

Plans for two others in the US (Indiana and Louisiana) have been abandoned despite significant US EPA subsidies in order to finally show ‘commercially available technology as required by CAA.

All CCUS plans in Europe have been abandoned despite large subsidies. These include several in the UK and one in Norway.

the only functioning CCU in North America are about 10 amine process plants used to strip CO2 from raw natgas and then use it for tertiary oil recovery. The sole subsidized demonstration CCS capturing CO2 from ethanol production (easy off the top of the fermentation tanks) in Illinois failed when the CO2 injected into a sandstone brine formation reacted with the brine and plugged the injection wells in just months.

Kevin Kilty
Reply to  Rud Istvan
February 10, 2025 4:07 pm

Thanks for this information. The use of gas produced by CCUS is complicated by operations at the tertiary recovery on the distant end of a pipeline. Is it a good idea to complicate grid operations further by tying thermal plants to oil/gas operations? Sometimes for technical reasons they can’t take the CO2 temporarily — then what?

oeman50
Reply to  Kevin Kilty
February 11, 2025 5:20 am

Excellent article, Kevin. I once attended a talk where the presenter (a geologist) said sometimes the injected strata receiving CO2 sometimes has to ‘rest” by stopping the injection. I later pointed out that power plants are not allowed to “rest.” they have to keep producing power as the market demands, 24/7.

And just a nit: “Right now only three states, Wyoming, North Dakota, and Louisiana are allowed primacy over regulation of class IV wells for CCS.” Class IV wells are used for waste disposal. Class VI wells are for CO2 storage.

Scissor
Reply to  Rud Istvan
February 10, 2025 5:18 pm

Difficult and unnecessary, unnecessarily difficult.

Reply to  Rud Istvan
February 11, 2025 10:58 am

There is also Sleipner: interesting detail reported here

https://www.ice.org.uk/areas-of-interest/energy/sleipner-carbon-capture-and-storage-project

And In Salah, Algeria

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1876610213007947

The injection led to reservoir deformation and micro seismic events.

https://frackland.blogspot.com/search?q=Salah

c1ue
Reply to  Rud Istvan
February 11, 2025 12:37 pm

The problem is nobody with half a brain wants a CO2 pipeline anywhere near them.
A CO2 pipeline leak kills.

DD More
Reply to  Rud Istvan
February 11, 2025 10:20 pm

Rud, you missed one.

Great Plains Synfuels Plant captures more CO2 from coal conversion than any facility in the world, and is a participant in the world’s largest carbon sequestration project. Since 2000, Dakota Gas sends CO2 through a 205-mile pipeline to Saskatchewan, Canada, where oil companies use it for enhanced oil recovery operations that result in permanent CO2 geologic sequestration. The geologic sequestration of CO2 in the oil reservoir is monitored by the International Energy Agency (IEA) Weyburn CO2 Monitoring and Storage Project.
Dakota Gas has the ability to capture up to 3 million tons of CO2 per year, or about 8,000 metric tons of CO2 daily.

Work on the Unit #1 power plant in the valley and been keeping track of the work there.

heme212
February 10, 2025 2:47 pm

that’s not cheyenne

Kevin Kilty
Reply to  heme212
February 10, 2025 4:00 pm

I know. It looks suspiciously like a coal plant in Utah that was converted to natural gas some time ago — if so, it is owned by Rocky Mountain Power and is thus part of the thermal capacity of PACE.

Richard Greene
February 10, 2025 2:49 pm

The five states that produce the most coal in the United States are Wyoming, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Illinois, and Kentucky. 

They should all use as much coal as possible
No sun — coal works
No wind — coal works
Not enough just in time natural gas in very cold weather — a stack of coal at the coal power plant works just fine in any weather.

When I read a Kilty article, I always feel like I am reading the intelligent words of an engineer who is trying ro deal with ignorant politicians. That must be frustrating.

Net Zero
The ONLY way to stop the rise of atmospheric CO2 is to stop all economic activity in the world.

All manmade CO2 emissions must end.

Nature can absorb half of manmade CO2 emissions. Never 100%.

That means the ONLY way to stop the rise of atmospheric CO2 is ZERO manmade CO2 emissions.

That will never happen, even if every nation in the world wanted it to happen.

So why do so many people dream Net Zero could happen? My answer is that the Net Zero leaders KNOW Net Zero is an impossible pipedream. But it is an effective strategy to gain government power and control over the private sector.

(1) Net Zero Leftist Fascism is real

(2) Net Zero Climate Change is
the Trojan Horse for (1)

Kevin Kilty
Reply to  Richard Greene
February 10, 2025 4:01 pm

Thanks, RG. I agree completely about burning coal.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Richard Greene
February 11, 2025 8:29 am

The only was to achieve ZERO manmade CO2 emissions is a population of ZERO.
If CO2 is pollution (it isn’t) all 8 Billion are criminal polluters. We exhale CO2.

February 10, 2025 2:55 pm

Message to The Hon Chris Bowen MP, Minister for Climate Change and Energy in Australia’s Federal Government:

In summary, the core problem is this: Dispatchable generating resources are retiring far too quickly and in quantities that threaten our ability to keep the lights on. The problem generally is not the addition of intermittent resources, primarily wind and solar, but the far too rapid subtraction of dispatchable resources, especially coal and gas.”

Reply to  jayrow
February 10, 2025 4:41 pm

You should send this comment to MP Bowen.

February 10, 2025 3:00 pm

The purpose of Chapter 18 was to head-off in the only way that people could imagine, the impacts of EPAs endangerment finding

That’s because the U.S. Congress is bereft of people with any imagination. President Trump is not limited by small-minded thinking. This is easily fixed with just a few lines of legislation. I offer this further amendment to the Clean Air Act:

The federal government may only regulate the air pollutants enumerated in the Clean Air Act and its amendments. Any proposal to regulate additional air pollutants must be approved by a majority vote of Congress. No federal agency may assume authority to regulate additional air pollutants not enumerated by Congress. In accordance with Article I of the Constitution, only Congress has legislative authority, thus any change in regulation of the pollutants named in the Clean Air Act and its amendments must be approved by a majority vote of Congress.

Do the same thing for the Clean Water Act. That will end the regulatory creep of the EPA, DOE, FTC, etc.

Reply to  stinkerp
February 10, 2025 4:47 pm

You send this proposed amendment the to the Congressmen and to the Senators of your state.

February 10, 2025 3:04 pm

Great points here. Keep up the good work.

The mind-lock on CO2 is a debilitating condition. It may take a few more years, but eventually it will become clearer that incremental concentrations in the atmosphere should never have been considered capable of driving any trend of any climate metric to any bad outcome. It cannot be otherwise, given the known operation of the atmosphere as the compressible working fluid of its own solar-powered circulation.

But as you note, in purely practical terms of capacity, cost, and competition with Asia, the insistence on CC(U)S is insane.

February 10, 2025 3:20 pm

One more thing. Human emissions of CO2 from using coal, oil, and gas are approaching only 40 billion metric tons per year. Photosynthesis on land requires upwards of 440 billion metric tons per year. What a puny contribution we are making to grow the crops and keep things green!

Reply to  David Dibbell
February 10, 2025 4:51 pm

Where does the 400 billion metric tons of CO2 come from?

Kevin Kilty
Reply to  Harold Pierce
February 10, 2025 5:01 pm

I don’t want to speak for DD, but probably from the magnitude of annual variation on the Mauna Loa curve…

Reply to  Harold Pierce
February 10, 2025 6:11 pm

In a diagram from NASA some time ago, the baseline uptake for photosynthesis is given at 120 GtC, which is multiplied by 44/12 to get 440 GtCO2 or “440 billion metric tons”.
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/CarbonCycle

Reply to  David Dibbell
February 10, 2025 6:55 pm

Where does the original 120 Gt of carbon come from? How about CO2 from volcanoes and seeps from the oceans floors for starters?

MarkW
Reply to  Harold Pierce
February 10, 2025 8:21 pm

Also, decaying plants and forest fires. Any emitted methane will be broken down into water and CO2 in the atmosphere.

Reply to  MarkW
February 11, 2025 12:15 pm

Also, humans breathing out, 8 billion people times 2 lbs per day times 365. Roughly 3 GTs a year.

Reply to  Harold Pierce
February 11, 2025 1:40 am

The diagram in that article I linked to gives the estimates for the complete cycle. Plant respiration, microbial decomposition, etc. And please realize my original comment was intended to poke a little fun at the CO2 mind-lock against emissions from human-driven use of natural hydrocarbons.

Kevin Kilty
February 10, 2025 3:48 pm

Weird things happen. Something along the way scrubbed the equal signs and plus signs from the small boxes of Figure 1. Use your imaginations…

MR166
February 10, 2025 4:01 pm

One can do multiple calculations of every Climate Change initiative and always come to only one logical conclusion. That is to follow the money and look to see who is the ultimate beneficiary of these policies. China and and the elite few come out the winners. They are enabled by the Cloward-Piven academics who are using CO2 emissions as a tool to destroy the Western economies and governments. The only other answer is that these people are ignorant misguided fools which they certainly are not. They are very educated. Too educated, in fact, to make the kind of policy mistakes they are helping to make.

Kevin Kilty
Reply to  MR166
February 10, 2025 4:47 pm

There are agendas, hidden ones too; but I think most boneheaded nonsense results from ignorance/stubborness. Intelligence and education are mysterious things. They are only modestly related to one another. Anyone who has practiced science or engineering outside of academia for any length of time knows that schooling through experience and lifelong reading are very important. The lawyers often have degrees in history, and a knowledge of history should tell a person quite a lot about the immutable character of peoples, how plans and efforts go wrong and so forth. But as lawyers they are pretty busy lawyering. An unfortunate number of them think that problems caused by excessive lawyering can be fixed with more lawyering. Scientists who’ve spent a career in academia are more impressed with science than they should be — science can inform us about what is possible but cannot provide good judgment. And I have met some terrible engineers who have the unfortunate habit of getting badly outside their expertise and experience — something the codes of ethics address explicitly. Yet people don’t pay attention. Humility and skepticism are called for; yet in short supply.

observa
February 10, 2025 4:04 pm

News flash! Spaghetti and meatballs grids have costs large hub and spoke grids don’t-
WA’s 2030 coal phase-out in doubt over concerns renewable energy projects are behind target
and just who is gunna pay those costs?

davidinredmond
Reply to  observa
February 10, 2025 5:53 pm

Ye. Can see it coming. My utility provider, Puget Sound Energy used to have a diverse mix of about 1/3 coal (from W Montana), 1/3 state hydro, and about 1/3 natgas, and a sprinkling of “other”. In the race to “decarbonize”, we no longer have coal power as a source, so use much more natgas and now have to import hydro from the fed BPA.

Instead of building more and reliable supply, PSE has started a Flex program. where they pay you a token amount for enrolling (during high use periods where they want to control demand). they’ll pay you a little more to hand over control of your home thermostat to them, and your EV, and if you have battery storage at home, earn a little more for turning control of it to them.

We’re going to pay those costs, through higher prices and less and less reliable energy.

Reply to  davidinredmond
February 10, 2025 7:58 pm

Link is about Western Australia, not Washington State, fwiw. PSE states they still get 18% of the ‘electricity fuel mix’ from coal (2023), so they must be buying from the Centralia Plant. You are certainly correct about heading towards higher prices and less reliable

John Hultquist
Reply to  gilbertg
February 10, 2025 8:42 pm

 Western Australia, not Washington State,
And then there is Washington, D.C.; one just has to get used to spelling it out each time.

davidinredmond
Reply to  John Hultquist
February 11, 2025 1:58 am

my mistake. Love Western Oz. My wife’s best friend is from Manjimup. we stayed wit them on her family’s sheep ranch a few km out of town. slept in the old homestead cabin. bunk beds and crib covered with heavy metal screen to keep the creepy crawlies out. Her dad sent me out put away the chooks after dark so I wandered out in my thongs and chooks on top of the coop not moving. when back he asked if the tiger snake had come out to say hello. light up the tourists

davidinredmond
Reply to  gilbertg
February 11, 2025 1:41 am

Ah m mistake on Western Aus. this link https://www.eia.gov/electricity/gridmonitor/dashboard/electric_overview/balancing_authority/PSEI says that, as per their goals, coal is almost dow to 0

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  observa
February 10, 2025 6:25 pm

Spaghetti and meatballs grids have costs large hub”

Uh, wut?

Bob
February 10, 2025 5:05 pm

Very nice Kevin. The one issue that isn’t being discussed is can more CO2 in the atmosphere cause catastrophic warming? I don’t think it can. For those who think it can, they need to prove it with proper science. If it is true that CO2 on it’s own can not cause catastrophe then all of this net zero, CAGW nonsense needs to be stopped, it is expensive, it will not lower temperatures, in other words it is a complete waste of time, money and resources not to mention the harm done to the population and our wildlife. We need to stop playing defense and go on offense.

observa
Reply to  Bob
February 10, 2025 6:01 pm

Well the pundits seem pretty sure with lefties it aint about saving the planet from the dooming-
Tesla sales plunging worldwide amid Musk’s new role in Trump White House

Energyguy
February 10, 2025 6:06 pm

Good article. Sadly, we are slowly, or maybe not so slowly, being pushed towards Net Zero, which has a Net Zero chance of being successful. Climate ideologues do not want carbon capture on coal plants. They want all coal plants to shut down, and if they make them too expensive, they accomplish their goal.

I lived in Wyoming for 25 years and raised my family there. So sad to see this happening to such a wonderful state.

Overlooked is the only real option to provide ample amounts of dispatchable energy with lower CO2 is to deploy efficient combined cycle combustion turbines, which emit about 1/3 the CO2 of coal.

The EPA, in the final days of the Biden Administration, finalized carbon dioxide rules for natural gas facilities that would require carbon capture on new gas facilities. Hopefully saner heads will prevail.

Mr. Istvan, in his comment pointed out that CCS is a huge power consumer and is problematic.

CCS, now subsidized thanks to the Inflation Reduction Act, will be portrayed the industry that will save the climate. Follow the money.

A closing thought. Between 2005 and 2023 the US electric grid reduced CO2 emissions by 1 billion tons per year primarily by replacing coal with natural gas. During that same time China increased their grid CO2 emissions by 6 billion tons per year. And they are building about 50,000 mw capacity/year.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Energyguy
February 10, 2025 6:28 pm

Climate ideologues do not want carbon capture on coal plants. They want all coal plants to shut down,”

They want all power generation to shut down, period. They might pretend to want wind and solar, but once all the dispatchable generation is gone, they’ll attack wind and solar too.

February 10, 2025 6:42 pm

Harold the Organic Chemist Says:
ATTN: Kevin Kilty
RE: CO2 Does Not Cause Warming OF Air!

Shown in the chart (See below) are plots of the temperatures at the Furnace Creek weather station in Death Valley from 1922 to 2001. In 1922, the concentration of CO2 in dry air was 303 ppmv (0.59 g of CO2/cu. m.), and by 2001, it had increased to 371 ppmv (0.79 g of CO2/cu. m.), but there was no corresponding increase in the air temperature at this remote arid desert.

This empirical temperature data from this weather station and from the many other station located around the world show that the claim by the IPCC that CO2 causes global warming is a fabrication and a deliberate lie.
The EPA supports and continues this lie with the Endangerment Finding.

The purpose of this lie is to provide the UN the justification to distribute funds, via the UNFCCC and the UN COP, from the rich doner countries
to the poor countries to help them cope with global warming and climate change. At the recent COP29 conference in Baku, the poor counties came clamoring not for billions but trillions of funds. The poor countries left the conference empty handed with no pledges of funds from the rich countries. All this recent rhetoric about greenhouse emissions, global warming, and climate change is really all about schemes of wealth redistribution.

NB 1: The chart was obtained from the late John Daly’s website:
“Still Waiting For Greenhouse” available at http://www.John-Daly.com. He found many weather stations around the world that showed no warming up to 2002. You should check out the charts for Oz, especially the chart for
Adelaide which shows a slight cooling from 1857.

NB 2: At the MLO in Hawaii, the concentration of CO2 in dry air is 425 ppmv. One cubic meter of this air contains a mere 0.839 g of CO2 and has a mass of 1.29 kg at STP. This small amount of CO2 can heat up such a large mass of air by a very small amount if at all.

The main greenhouse gas is H2O and 71% of the earth’s surface is covered with H2O.

Your task is to convince the people that there is too little CO2 in air to cause global warming. How do we know that there is a low amount of CO2
in the air? Because it takes ca. 6 months to grow a crop of wheat or corn.

death-vy
Kevin Kilty
Reply to  Harold Pierce
February 10, 2025 8:57 pm

Harold the Ochem, with all due regard no mechanical engineer concerned with heat transfer to the walls of an enclosure from combustion gasses (ovens, boilers, furnaces, rocket/jet engines) will deny that CO2 has to be taken into account. The question of concern is not whether CO2 has an effect or not, but does it have a significant effect. I’d say, with all factors considered, the answer is no it does not. So, I half agree with you.

Reply to  Kevin Kilty
February 10, 2025 11:15 pm

I forgot to add this sentence at the end of the first paragraph:
“The reason the was no increase in the temperature of the dry desert air is quite simple: There is just to little CO2 in the air”.

I also forget the add this closing comment: ” Hopefully, President Trump will put an end to the greatest scientific fraud being perpetrated by UN and IPCC since that of the Piltdown Man”. I just saw on the TV that President Trump just canceled a $4 billion grant to the UN’s “New Green Deal”.

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, check out the IR absorption spectrum of Philadelphia city air from 400 to 4,000 wavenumbers (wn’s). Integration of spectrum determined that H2O absorbed 92% of the IR light and CO2 only 8%. There are some additional absorptions of IR light by H2O from 400 to 200 wn’s. The FT-IR spectrometer has a cutoff at 400 wn’s. Since
the air sample was inner city air, it likely that the concentration of CO2 was much greater than that of remote location such as rural area or the oceans. The big question is: By how much greater?

Fig. 7 was taken from the essay: Climate Change Reexamined” by Joel M. Kaufman. The essay is 26 pages and can be downloaded for free. You should have the Republican Party make copies of the essay and give these to the scientific unknowledgeable politicians.

kaufman
February 10, 2025 7:50 pm

There are phenomenally idiotic ideas in the world, and CCUS is one.

February 10, 2025 8:14 pm

The only CO2 that should be “captured” at power stations is that which has a saleable purpose.

There are many such uses… eg.

  • Making urea (used as a fertilizer and in automobile systems and medicine)
  • Producing methanol
  • Creating inorganic and organic carbonates
  • Forming polyurethanes and sodium salicylate
  • Cooling and refrigerating (as dry ice)
  • Fire extinguishers (blocks fire from getting oxygen)
  • Inflating life jackets
  • Creating bubbles in foaming rubbers, plastics, and concrete
  • Preserving food in packaging
  • Producing carbonated drinks
  • Controlling reactor temperatures in chemistry
  • Neutralizing alkaline effluents
  • Purifying or drying polymers and fibers
  • Promoting plant growth in greenhouses

The rest should be allowed into the atmosphere to promote global plant growth.

Reply to  bnice2000
February 10, 2025 11:26 pm

FYI, natural gas is used to make methanol. A Canadian company, Methanex is one of the world’s biggest manufacturer of methanol which only cost ca. 65 cents per gallon.

Reply to  bnice2000
February 11, 2025 4:48 am

Eventually they can make friends with the right population of microbes and get methane in return for supplying CO2. CCS for “climate” purposes is nuts, but injection underground might turn out to be a good technology to develop. Or maybe an above-ground version using methanogens.

“Underground methanation is achievable through the utilization of microbes in the reservoir. These specific microbe strains can transform carbon dioxide through their metabolic reaction into the desired methane gas.”

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364032120300411?via%3Dihub

John Hultquist
February 10, 2025 8:26 pm

By Wednesday morning (2/12/25) all Wyoming will be
below Zero Fahrenheit (-18° C).

Reply to  John Hultquist
February 10, 2025 11:40 pm

Yikes! That is really cold, How do you heat your house? How do the farm animals handle the cold and snow?

AlbertBrand
Reply to  Harold Pierce
February 11, 2025 4:20 am

That’s nothing. In 1961 when I went to visit my wife before we were married it was 35 degrees below zero (F) in upstate New York. We were going to Vermont to go skiing.

John Hultquist
Reply to  AlbertBrand
February 11, 2025 12:34 pm

That’s nothing.”
Actually, anything below about 55°F is “something”. I do understand your point. I was in Iowa one winter and the low was -33°F. For the record, I got married in Atlanta in July.

Kevin Kilty
Reply to  John Hultquist
February 12, 2025 8:23 am

It actually reached -7F in Laramie this morning, and is forecast to be -14 tonight; this is not terribly cold by Laramie standards. Our record is -50F, and most winters it is below -20F at some point. I just looked at January and we were almost -6F colder than 1981-2010 normals. It is -18F right now in Greybull.

roaddog
February 10, 2025 10:10 pm

More than ever I am committed to freeing myself of the grid by burning coal for home heating.

Justacanuk
February 11, 2025 6:18 am

Shout out for Chris Keefer’s recent Decouple podcast on CCS, very informative!
https://youtu.be/6aDK3f0g7h8

John Hultquist
February 11, 2025 5:07 pm

TIP on the BBC web page
Germany’s car industry crisis – this is what may fix it
Union rep Steffen Schmidt thinks the path ahead is very clear: “Invest, invest, invest. In infrastructure, in technology, in green energy and in education.”

I think he missed a few recent clues. The road of “green energy” is full of potholes and wrong turns.