From NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT
By Paul Homewood
LCV Registrations
https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/lcv-registrations
Whilst EV car sales remain sluggish, the market for electric vans is even worse. The government’s ZEV mandate demands that 10% of van sales are electric this year, and this figure rises rapidly in the next few years.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pathway-for-zero-emission-vehicle-transition-by-2035-becomes-law
However sales of the useless things gave actually fallen this year, and only account for 4.9% of the market.
Fleetworld sum up the problem:
The Association of Fleet Professionals (AFP) said several major van makers now insist that a proportion of all vehicle orders must be electric vans in order to reflect the percentage of ZEV vehicles they are now legally required to sell – creating a dilemma for fleets that can’t go electric yet.
AFP chair Paul Hollick explained: “It’s quickly becoming a widespread practice that when a fleet wants to order a quantity of vans, manufacturers are asserting that a percentage is electric – often 10% to reflect the 2024 ZEV mandate.
“The problem is that some fleets just don’t have a role for these electric vans within their business. Their payload and range requirements mean there is no operational profile for which the electric van can be practically used, or there is no suitable charging infrastructure.”
Hollick said that the situation presented a dilemma for fleets – whether to switch to manufacturers not insisting on order quotas, to not replace existing diesel vehicles and keep operating them for longer, or to buy quota electric vans and use them for occasional lighter duties or simply park them up.
“All of these courses of action are far from ideal. Changing van supplier can be quite an arduous task for fleets, meaning that the whole van unit has to be rethought including fitting out. Hanging onto older vans that really need to be replaced means that you are likely to experience problems with reliability and has potential risk management and environmental implications.
“Lastly, it’s just not viable to buy expensive assets such as electric vans and not really use them in the operational roles where you actually need a solution.”
https://fleetworld.co.uk/zev-order-quotas-creating-dilemmas-for-van-fleet-replacements-warns-afp
I suspect we are going to see increasing numbers of imported vans, which in turn will exacerbate the problems for UK manufacturers.
Back to the horse and cart…
That is the desired destination
On to the horse manure crisis!
Green (or perhaps brown) jobs for all.
Certainly o’bummer will be happy… here come his “shovel ready” jobs.
When I was a kid in the ’50s, some really old guy had a garbage business and he’d come around with a horse and a really big cart. The guy and his horse and cart looked like from 1800. All the kids loved it when he came by- just to see the anachronism. Of course he didn’t cover much territory in a day- but he didn’t care- he must have been 90- just having fun or whatever.
I was born in 1948, until I was eight we had a fellow with a horse and cart delivering whole milk, you took your jug out to the cart and he filled it. When I turned nine they turned to pasteurized milk, the horse and cart disappeared and I haven’t drunk milk since.
The old ‘rag & bone man’
The late movie star Kirk Douglas said (in his first autobiography) that that was his father’s job. He used that term.
Born in ’35, and we kids used to be happy to see “the ice man” come around.
Whereabouts?
Mr. varius: Who said you could have a cart??!! Making a cart probably emits CO2, so ……
“Who said you could have a cart??!!”
Or a horse?
Or a life?
Methane emissions and all that …
Great, lets buy a electric van with the purpose to travel around the world, maybe even in remote locations! Who doesn’t love the permanent stress of running out of juice?
You also have vans in transportation which is a bad idea. Soon we have election in the US and EU, we can vote the stupidity away. Unfortunaly most people are politcally ignorant. Casting a vote these day is a matter of chosing for the least damage. A slow suicide is still better than a fast one.
Soon we have election in the US and EU, we can vote the stupidity away.
You can vote for EU Commissioners?
I don’t think so.
“we can vote the stupidity away”
No we can’t; there is no real viable choice …
In USA, it’s a figurehead/puppet choice between dumb or dumber.
In EU you can’t vote for the ‘commissioners.
In UK we effectively now have a one party state, so whoever ‘wins’ we still perpetuate the madness.
If voting made a différance to the outcome, they wouldn’t allow it
“A slow suicide is still better than a fast one.”
Do you mean ‘Death by 1,000 cuts’ ?? … No thanks.
“In UK we effectively now have a one party state,”
We’ve had a Parliamentary dictatorship since 1660. Its fundamental purpose is to maintain its [the elites’] power, the status quo, over the peasantry – now dubbed the working class.
Every now and then it loses a little ground [and power] – the political enfranchisement of men and later the Suffragettes (force fed, of course) etc. Now that the digital age is here Parliament is finf=ding new ways to ape the Gestapo and Abwehr.
The BBC does a bloody good Goebbels….
“Democratic” society: gangs of thugs (aka political parties) whose members concentrate their political power (kratos) so that whoever has the most can plunder and intimidate the other gangs – basically an extortion racket facilitated by wealth distributive tax system and universal suffrage.
Mr. XB: Yes, it’s worse than any other system, except the ones that were tried.
😎
There are people involved.
Most just want to be left alone.
But some, no matter the system or political philosophy involved, are determined to be the ones who “Live in the Farmhouse” (Animal Farm reference.).
If you’re too stupid to see the differences between the two major candidates for the American presidency, god help you.
It’s the difference between full-cut boxers and Depends. It’s the difference between knowing which city you’re in versus turning to shake the hand of an imaginary person. It’s the difference between prosperity, peace through strength or never-ending inflation and never-ending wars.
“Unfortunaly most people are politcally ignorant.”
Yes, I think that is a major problem for freedom-loving people.
Electing tyrants like Joe Biden or just about any other radical Democrat will not set us free, they will take our freedoms away from us like they are trying to do to Trump.
So politically ignorant voters are a big problem, and this problem is exaserbated by a dishonest, radical leftwing Media that lies to the public on a daily basis causing them to vote for the wrong people.
Campaign: “We need change!” and “Trust me!”
Not much to make a voting decision on.
More of a popularity contest and with campaigns focused on swaying public opinion, not much hope for near term improvement.
You could always carry around a few hundred square feet of solar panels so you could recharge anywhere you can find the room to lay them out. On the other hand, I have seen YouTubers who retrofit electric vehicles with generator so they can use fossil fuel which seems to be available everywhere.
Presumably, most will just sell them on for whatever they can get and take the hit, I would guess that a lot of self-employed plumbers, electricians and other trades might be able to work with the range limitations, in which case they might make sense.
Whether there’s enough of the above to absorb 10%, let along 30% or 50% of the market is another question.
It seems that “park them up” is occurring to a growing extent. That means that all of the emissions used to produce said EVs are for naught. Thus, we have again legislation producing exactly the opposite of its intent.
True but in the US we also have a shortage of affordable housing. Just park the unwanted EV vans under the bridge, down by the river. Someone will use them.
And keeping older diesel vans in service means more pollution than if they bought a newer diesel van.
What is needed is lots more 15 minute cities. (sarc) That way the commercial EVs will be able to make their deliveries in exactly the same way the town delivery milk floats did in the UK in the first half of the 20th century. Never too far away from the base recharging depot. The UK led the world on commercial EV transport but for some reason EV commercial didn’t prove a lasting option?
There is a lesson from history right there.
What is needed is lots more 15 minute cities.
Music to ItsUsername’s ears….
True.
MU
I’m curious how you envision grocery shopping (let’s say for a family of 4) would work in a 15-minute city?
Mr. G: Looks like the music stopped for this troll.
Hard to say with local grocery stores. Must be pure magic. Absolutly impossible. I wonder how my family managed without a car. Guess I starved.
Why Grocery Shopping is Better in Amsterdam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYHTzqHIngk
And I learned buying groceries on my own early in life. Because not being car dependend leads to children being more independent. Like being able to help with chores. Or go to school on their own.
But I guess raising helpless car dependend suburban children that are bored out of their mind until they get their own ride is far better.
So you prefer to snark instead of giving a serious answer to an honest question. Thanks for making that clear.
As for the video, which answers more seriously than you attempted to, it looks like it’s saying “shop every day”. Sounds like a great use of my limited time.
Sorry, but asking how to do groceries without cars with infrastructure especially designed to do so made me snarky. That’s why I added the video 😀
Sounds like a bad use of my time. Too bad you don’t recognize that most people choose to live differently.
He doesn’t have a serious answer. That would require thinking, something he is ideologically opposed to.
I grew up piss-poor too, but I got off my backside and did something about it.
The world moves on
What has that to do with anything? But great for you.
Those groceries, all delivered by FOSSIL FUELS.
The whole infrastructure created using FOSSIL FUELS.
Forced 15 minutes cities are just a form of totalitarian far-left societal degradation.
15 minute hospitals?
15 minute fire departments?
15 minute EMS?
15 minute grocery stores for the elderly? (Or even the young that broke a leg or is otherwise disabled?)
15 minute cities is a nice a nice dream but reality bites.
These are the people who would benefit the most from not being dependent on a car
Maybe you should read about the idea behind 15-minute cities before talking about reality?
I’m perfectly fine with 15-minute cities, as long as the people who live there are doing so voluntarily, and those who want to live differently are free to choose differently.
Personally, I couldn’t stand grocery shopping every day, for a number of reasons.
“15 minute hospitals?
15 minute fire departments?
15 minute EMS?”
People that can’t walk to a place that sold food would somehow “benefit”?!?!
Maybe you should wake up from your dream?
Where would the drinking water come from?
When the toilet is flushed, where would it go?
Where would wastewater be treated?
What if the receiving waters of treated wastewater was miles away?
What if the source of water to be made into drinking water was even more mile away?
50 yrs ago I ( like most other urbanites in UK ) lived within 10 mins walk of ~40 shops, post-office, 7 banks, 9 schools, 2 health centres, 1 major hospital, 4 doctors, 2 dentists, 2 libraries, 3 parks, 2 cinemas, 1 dance hall, dozens of churches & pubs; train station was 20 mins walk or 5 mins on a bus, lots of local light industry, heavy industry & docks was 15 mins on a bus = a good community.
Then the town planers got to work … ‘zoned’ everything, moved all essential services miles away & cut transport links forcing people into cars; so then they had to bulldoze 1,000 of houses to make bigger roads for all the new cars & build impersonal estates with no shops or services to house the displaced people, so even more people needed more cars.
Utter madness !
Feel free to live like that. Nobody is stopping you. Just please stop trying to force your choices on everyone else.
The local grocery store is 1.5 miles away. I have walked it. 30 minutes out and 30 minutes back.
A 15 minute city would have a grocery store every 0.75 miles apart. One has to wonder how those stores could stay in business and how the groceries would be delivered to the stores.
A family will need more than one bag of groceries per week. So, either multiple people go shopping from the same household or the procurer has to make multiple trips per week.
This means there are (wo)/manhours that can not be applied to house maintenance and cleaning, family support, etc.
And are you going to have a play ground every 0.75 miles? Soccer field? Swimming pool?
There are points to discuss with this concept before a headlong, unbridled rush to implement it.
Who gave you permission to have 2 children? Serves you right if you can’t feed them.
The US had the same choice between BEV and ICE vehicles over 100 years ago. I assume the UK did as well. ICE won out, for obvious reasons and those reasons remain true today.
So true. A couple years ago, i stripped the walls of our kitchen of our home (built in 1889) to the studs to redo the kitchen. I found a bunch of newspapers in the walls as insulation, dated 1910-1913. There were no less than five local EV manufacturers, all presenting themselves as ‘the latest thing’. Hmmm. Where are they now?
EV Use Case: Charge at home. Home every night. Lots of miles every day.
Examples of EV Ideal Use Cases: UPS. Post Office. Police car. Long Daily Commute with at-home charging — my daily commute was once about 100 miles … perfect!
Example of a Not-Very-Good EV Use Case: My 2.5 year old car with only 4200 miles on the clock — not a daily driver.
Examples of EV Ideal Use
The milk float…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_float
EV police cars would be fine if your name is Barney Fife. Where I live the cars patrol all day, every day. They have a few extras for maintenance but there is not 3 shifts worth of vehicles.
EV fire trucks don’t seem a very good idea either. A large fire would require them to be running for many hours – and it’s not like you can fill them on-scene. And what happens when you get back from such a call and get another one right afterward? “We’ll be there as soon as the truck finishes charging”?
I am not understanding exactly what you are trying to say.
Mr. Nova 4: Mr broker, if memory serves, is an EV promoter. Here, he’s trying to say that EVs are fabulous if you just use them right, like the postal service, UPS, police etc. use them, just perfect! He ignores that EVs are NOT in fact in use by post office or UPS or police (with minimal exceptions in the most virtuous cities). I’ve said before, until the post office switches to an EV fleet, the EV is not ready. Post office seems ideal for EVs, plus the feds would love to show an EV fleet, but it has not happened. For reasons that Mr. broker blinds himself to, as do all the EV acolytes.
Ok, Paul, but that what he wrote does not read well.
There are certainly certain urban situations where an EV fits nicely. Pizza delivery comes to mind. Legal curriers, too.
US Postal service has an ever growing fleet of EVs. However, the police do not and for good reason. Likewise no emergency service.
My long daily commute is 90 miles. In winter I would not be able to get to work and home and warm myself, especially sitting in rush hour traffic for half an hour each way. Plus there is no way I would charge a LiPO battery in my garage and given my garage is not heated there would be long stretches where charging would be impossible due to cold. Add to that the battery self-heater would run until the battery was fully discharged and guess what? Not an easy fix.
Mr. 4: Ever since Joe Biden stole an election, I have had to hone my skill at understanding garbled english. That’s why I thought I’d help out.
As for EV mail trucks, I’m sure the USPS has been forced to buy some EVs to virtue-signal, but there’s no EV fleet at all. Wonder where the post office is using the EVs?
Mr. courtney: Where I live there are a couple in use for local pickup and delivery. While they are out for hours at a time the actual mileage is compatible with LiPO batteries. They recharge overnight at the PO itself.
Long distance truck? No fleet at all for all the obvious reasons, starting with weight, time to delivery, lack of adequate recharging stations, etc., etc., etc.
Long distance trucks applies to USPS in moving mail from the local PO to the main PO distribution center that is about 15 miles away and also from one distribution center to another. In my case, the distance is nearly 40 miles to the distribution center up north. Then there is the transport of airmail and the closest airport is comparable to my commute. I suspect the 3 airports in the greater area each handle airmail from all over based on flight schedules.
Bottom line is, EVs for local USPS can work. Everything else is bogus.
“my daily commute was once about 100 miles “
Until you get stuck in traffic on a cold or hot day. !
You are delusional !
There was a major snow storm a couple of years ago. It closed I-95 in Virginia for 26 hours.
One has to wonder what the casualty numbers would have been had all the vehicles been EV?
Have you ever lived anywhere with major power outages after a storm? Should I buy enough batteries to keep my EV charged for a week if needed?
The problem with using electric vans, is that the battery is so heavy that it dramatically cuts the amount of cargo they can carry.
The problem with something like a police car, is that when one shift ends, the next shift starts, using the same vehicles. Requiring that the vehicles charge everyday overnight, means you have to double the size of the fleet.
More than double.
For the sake of discussion, assume only 35 mph on the local roads and a 175 mile range for the EV. They have to get the car back for charging after 5 hours of duty.
One can quibble about the assumptions in the above, but the math is the same regardless of assumptions.
And there are usually 3 shifts.
The climate changers’ international idol are onboard with EVs-
Why China Can’t Censor and is Panicking about this EV Disaster (youtube.com)
Just make sure you’re not as you should never trust commies.
When we are overrun by cheap imported Chinese EV’s and western car manufacturers have been driven out of business, the reason they are so cheap will become obvious. Like everything that comes out of China, they are built to a cost, not to a standard. Lives will be lost, properties destroyed. Who will you go to for reparations? Not your dealer, that’s for certain.
No, no – it’s just resting.
And pining for the fjords.
Lovely Plumage
This is the problem when government bureaucrats try to run private businesses.
The Market will ultimately decide these issues.
The greatest example of democracy in action is the free market, being supply and demand. People want it, they buy it and producers increase supply.
The first priority/purpose of government is to protect the citizenry from the government.
Why would I go out of the way to replace something that works just fine with something that is less versatile and with abilities that are hyped? De minimis environmental concerns and mass psychology.
Mr. Springer: You seem to be unable to grasp what our betters have figured out. We can’t have a couple billion Chinese and Asian Indians driving around burning gasoline like Americans!! If we yanks are allowed to have real cars, China and India may not accept that they must only drive EVs, so we must sacrifice, and our betters will see to it that we sacrifice good and hard.
Funny thing is, they have not yet figured out what happens if Americans still have enough freedom left to decline to take the path of virtue.
A lot of opportunities for the (/sarc) annotation, eh?
In the US, government mandates, rebates, crony capitalism and misinformed media using propaganda are keeping this market going even as it stalls out:
Why EV Sales Are Plunging: The Real Reason Revealed! Electric Vehicles & Market Performance!
May 14, 2024U.S. share of electric and hybrid vehicle sales decreased in the first quarter of 2024
ANOTHER SPECTACULAR EV ROAD TRIP
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/101621/
Have you noticed that no matter how many EVs or wind farms or solar farms the world adds the demand for fossil fuels keeps going up?
I drove from Baltimore to Chicago once. It took 13 hours in my big station wagon. Worse part was Ohio. I could only pick up country music stations.
I wish the guys had talked about how much money they paid for the electricity from Tesla’s superchargers.
I saw this story related to EV’s while browsing the web this AM =====>
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/public-safety/story/2024-05-15/fire-at-energy-storage-facility-in-otay-mesa-prompts-evacuation-warning
Nasty stuff when they ignite.
There’s a good quote for our friends pushing the hydrogen economy.
“Firefighters maintained a 600-foot safety barrier around the facility on Camino De La Fuente for more than 22 hours because air monitors showed dangerous levels of hydrogen, a highly flammable gas.”
I saw that and there is also the possible cause of the fire-*thermal runaway*.
“But there have been instances of excessive heat inside a battery leading to a chemical reaction that spreads to other batteries via thermal runaway. It has happened in hand-held devices, electric vehicles, e-bikes and in battery storage facilities.”
I would live close to a nuclear reactor. I wouldn’t live close to a energy storage facility.
Many people, probably most, will have no choice.
It all comes down to the right tool for the right job.
Over the span of 15 years doing field service, the only vehicle was a van. In the last driving position I was based in Denver, CO and had 6 western states as my territory. Some days, I would never leave the Denver Metro area and still put over 250 miles on the van. It would have went over like a lead balloon if I were to have called the boss to say I needed a few hours to recharge.
I am surprised Spock was not saying: “Jim, sensors indicate no intelligent life on this planet.”
Get the government out of the energy and transportation business and all of these problems go away. Government is dumb as rocks, it doesn’t have to be but it is.
…..and a free set of steak knives folks-
Tesla Model Y, Model 3 receive major price cuts in Australia (msn.com)
I’m such a nerd that I recognize the episode of Star Trek depicted above.
What if these poor companies set up raffles for the forced EV vans? Good advertising, plus they can write off the value (or lack thereof) of the vans for tax purposes.
Or better yet, a contest, straight out of the ’50s. Get a bunch of chicken littles to glue themselves to a van, and the one who remains longest without begging his mommy for the solvent gets to keep the van.
Maybe use some of Greta’s followers?
Why not donate them to a charity?
What’s even more ludicrous, is the military. Looking at BEVs, can you imagine an Abrams running on batteries? Are there charging facilities on the front line? I can just see a whole train of mules, several miles long, carrying battery modules to the battle front!
While there are few if any viable military applications for full BEV, there are some significant advantages to hybrids. Fuel is one of the major logistics drivers for operations. Anything that improves efficiency while maintaining flexibility helps. There are also situations where the ability to operate off the battery with reduced acoustic and thermal signature is really useful. They can also reduce the need to drag extra generators around the battlefield.
All valid points until one includes the mass of the Abrams.
Diesel electric has been used in tanks and trains and many other applications. But those are not the hybrids most people talk about.
Precautionary principle be damned as we’re busy saving the world!
(2) EV charging similar to a “FIREWORKS FACTORY”, say fire experts | MGUY Australia – YouTube
We’ll see with the first EV Grenfell Towers or battery school bus full of kiddies climate changers. That’s if the insurance underwriters don’t get you first.