From NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT
By Paul Homewood
London, 28 September – A new paper from the Net Zero Watch demonstrates conclusively renewables increase electricity bills — indeed, it is almost impossible that adding a new windfarm to the grid would ever reduce consumer prices.
The author of the paper, Net Zero Watch director Andrew Montford, outlines a series of effects that a new windfarm will have on bills, showing that in each case households will take a financial hit. As Mr Montford explains:
“In order to reduce bills, a new generator generally has to force an old one to leave the electricity market — otherwise there are two sets of costs to cover. But with wind power, you can’t let anything leave the market, because one day there might be no wind.”
But as well as adding excess capacity to the grid, renewables also have a series of other effects, each of which will push bills up further. Mr Montford says:
“Renewables need subsidies, they cause inefficiency, they require new grid balancing services that need to be paid for; the list of all the different effects is surprisingly long. There is only one way a windfarm will push your power bills, and that’s upwards.”
The paper is entitled The Six Ways Renewables Increase Electricity Bills. It is available in plain text below, or can be downloaded as a PDF by clicking on the cover image.
Here it all is, thank you Auntie B
They really do seem to think that forcing people into spending money, esp money they don’t have: Makes them = Rich
The logic and politics of Kindergarten at its finest
Seems like it’ll be really bad after World War Three.
Nothing drives UP the ¢o$t of energy more than subsidy intensive Free Energy. The more subsidy rich Free Energy you have in your mix the higher your bill will be…guaranteed.
Politicians only ever spend other peoples money so their understanding of wealth and finance is tainted. Their idiocy is only exceeded by the idiots who put them there.
Six ways?
The parliamentary set-up needs only one. After all, the schism in the dictatorship is not about the destination, merely the journey.
Yep Labour are the kiddies in the back seat who keep yelling “are we there yet?”
My utility company here in NY invited me recently to sign up to pay extra for wind power. Wait. I thought it was “cheaper than fossil fuels”!!
What a racket. The immediate impact is a flow of $ out of my pocket into someone else’s for no difference in the electrons coming through my meter.
From the e-mail:
******
Power your future with wind energyYou can be part of our state’s clean energy future with Catch the Wind, starting at just $5 per month. When you join, you’ll start making an immediate impact by matching all or part of your electricity use with New York wind power. Participating means reducing your carbon footprint, strengthening the local economy, and protecting the environment for future generations.
Join over 12,000 New Yorkers creating a more sustainable future
******
How do they know which electrons were produced by wind and which were not? Answer: They don’t know, this is just a scam.
Tom, an awful long time ago I was an electronics tech in the RAF. The oscilloscopes we used were British and had orange displays. Later in my service I specialised on TACAN radar which came with American specialists. Their oscilloscopes had green screens. One of the American techies once asked my team why the difference in colour. We told him that it was because American electrons were green and ours were orange. His face!!!
Harry, mate, love it. Used to teach radar equipments at Cosford 25 years ago. Ah, TACAN.
Remember seeing a response to a Harrier pilot snagging Zeus ECM with “it’s not a Klingon cloaking device”
Bil, great to hear that! I was there in 61/2 And 69/70. I was on TACAN at 30 MU at Chester after that. And then, off to that company where one felt that I’ve been moved. 😉
Certainly not when the meter is sourced by the grid. Those are tainted electrons.
It is well known, wind and solar electrons bounce around much more than regular electrons.
If you have too many wind and solar electrons, chaos ensues on the grid, which takes very expensive large scale battery systems to bring back under control.
However, Owners want 10%/y, when bank loans are 6.5%/y; the 3.5% is about a minimum for all the hassels.
So, if you have a solar bulge each day, as they do in dysfunctional California (I would be embarrassed/disgusted to be a Governor there), the cost of taming the midday bulge costs about 37.6 c/kWh passing through the batteries.
GO WOKE, GO BROKE AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT
BATTERY SYSTEM CAPITAL COSTS, OPERATING COSTS, ENERGY LOSSES, AND AGING
https://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/battery-system-capital-costs-losses-and-aging
See PART 8
There’s that magic word ‘economy’. Every time I hear about the merits of wind, they always claim it will boost the economy, be it local or national. They also claim it will create jobs, typically jobs for foreign employees, who are employed by the foreign company, that builds the farms etc.
It’s just Bastiat’s “Broken Window Fallacy” again.
And don’t forget “good for the environment”. I cant see the environmental destruction so therefore it is all good.
NY state has a population of 19.46M as of 2023. NY city has 7.88M of those.
If those “12,000” New Yorkers are NY City denizens that’s a poultry 0.152% of the population.
If those “12,000” New Yorkers are NY State denizens that’s a miniscule 0.061% of the population.
Sounds like Catch the Wind should be more like Smell the Wind and Run the other way
Poultry should read paltry… Dang autocorrect autoreplace
Well disable it then.
I’ll disable it alright… Now where did I put my 12 gauge
Maybe the autocorrect/autoreplace algorithm knows about the rural expression “chicken feed” for something paltry. 🙂
I think you were right with poultry
To sign up, you’d have to be clucking mad
Ours calls its please volunteer to pay more program “Blue Sky”. Can you imagine an organization so internally unaware that it names such a program after a euphemism for a dodgy investment? Priceless!
I read the download, good collection of facts and good presentation. This report really leads to a simple solution, go nuclear! With modern (China Syndrome Proof) reactors the clean and reasonable cost production of electricity is the future, not the Net Zero Pretend Solution.
Windmills will never power the world. They are a dead end and will eventually be scrapped in favor of nuclear electricity. Our short-sighted politicians are a bunch of fools and/or are making money on the deals.
There is no evidence that CO2 emissions need to be reduced. The stupid actions to reduce CO2 are not justified by any facts. Western politicians have gone off half cocked, and are proceeding to ruin their economies by their useless efforts to control CO2 when there is no evidence that CO2 needs to be controlled. All of these stupid actions as *all* based on unsubstantiated assumptions. Our nations are being ruined by unsubstantiated assumptions about CO2.
Alex (Tom), I´ll take “or are making money on the deals.” for a million (and never mind that “check is in the mail” line, this time). Thanks. Tom, good comment.
The cold weather we have every year causes about 4.6 million deaths a year mainly through increased strokes and heart attacks, compared with about 500,000 deaths a year from hot weather.
The cold weather causes blood vessels to constrict to hold onto heat causing blood pressure to rise increasing the risk of heart attacks and strokes.
‘Global, regional and national burden of mortality associated with nonoptimal ambient temperatures from 2000 to 2019: a three-stage modelling study’
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(21)00081-4/fulltext
What is the point of keeping it cold when 4 million people are dying each year because of the cold?
The report is an excellent summary of how the system works (and doesn’t work for consumers).
It seems that whatever primary source of energy we have, the prices will always increase because we will always have (relatively) inefficient or more expensive secondary sources.
In the UK we have the new nuclear solution – Hinkley Point C – which has a (again relatively) high strike price of £92.50 per MWh and back ups to it will likely be more expensive?
There has to be a tendency towards a system which reduces costs based on efficiency – otherwise we all lose (even more) big time.
As an aside, the other indicator of wind driving up costs is in the basic cost of energy in the UK to consumers – gas comes in to my home @ around 7p per kWh and electricity is more than 4X this rate – so it must be cheaper for home owners to generate electricity from your gas supply than to buy it from the authorities?
Nuclear IS the backup, not so? Only wind turdbines and suchlike GangGreen “solutions” need backup.
I should of said back up until we have enough reliable capacity – at present, we’d need 5 Hinkley Point C reactors for the UK – that’s at least 40 (?) years away.
“….– so it must be cheaper for home owners to generate electricity from your gas supply than to buy it from the authorities?”
Now that is funny, who writes your material? You were trying to be funny and not stupid?
Fuel cost are only one cost of making electricity. There are capital cost and O&M to mention a few.
You may as well try and catch the wind.
https://youtu.be/TMknrmuDD0o?si=KomarP-tgMzKlKaz
Like the vast majority on this site I realised a long time ago that the only way politicians and environmentalists will ever understand or accept that renewables don’t — and never will — produce cheaper power will be when the reality hits home.
Although I’ve completely lost any faith I might ever have had in politicians, the people I really blame here are the climate ‘scientists’. How anyone with the qualifications required to become a scientist in the first place can’t work out the basic economics is beyond me. Even worse, very, very few of these supposed scientists ever point out the true economics of renewables, presumably because they’re happy to take the rewards that go with this fraud.
What reality? They won’t go hungry; they’ll just go to the shops. if the shops are not good, safe or stocked enough, they’ll shop online. Once the internet stops working for the unlicensed, the army will deliver to the chosen ones.
Your target audience above live on another planet, far from the troubles of useless eaters.
Once again, this situation is driven by the unholy alliance of academia, corporate business, government and the media. In spite of the faux concern for the future, what it’s really all about is the money NOW. Money for research universities concocting predictions of impending doom. Money for corporations exploiting new and unproven technologies. Money for governments increasing bureaucratic battalions to supervise the new developments. Money for a media that unceasingly trumpets “climate change” as the source of every ill from the spread of tropical diseases to earth quakes. None of this would be occurring if there weren’t an anticipation of vast sums of money. Where all this money will come from hasn’t really been determined.
If such an exercise would have involved the Roman Empire they would have employed slaves to build the windmills and confiscated the essential materials from Carthage. The actual money they needed would have been created by diluting the precious metal content of their coinage. Times have changed to some extent and developing a renewable infrastructure on the proposed time line to satisfy current investors is impossible and impossibly expensive, a situation that means inflation even worse than its been since 1914. And this is to solve a problem that doesn’t actually exist.
Impressive observations General.
I too see much similarity between the demise of Rome and modern Western society.
The root cause in 2 words –
Hubris and Indulgence.
Don’t overlook corporate capture of our inept and ignorant politicians!
The rise in the rate of Cluster B personality disorders within Western governments must be geometric over the last several decades. The plethora of socio- and psychopaths infesting the corridors of power is at an all time high, and with “modern” education and social media apparently producing ever increasing numbers of the same it is difficult to see how our trajectory can be reversed quickly! The challenge will be whether the older generations can deprogram enough of our youth before the looming destruction of broad human freedoms and prosperity becomes irreversible!
Interesting times, indeed!
Yes, I’m also seeing quite an uptick in expressed public concerns about the “narcissistic” traits of so many politicians these days.
Trudeau gets lots of mentions, as do Trump, Biden, Schwab, Albanese etc etc.
Great point, Mr.
It seems as if most, if not all, of the WEF MFers are high on one or more of the scales of Cluster B PDs! Trudeau, Jacinda Adern, Klaus Schwab, Macron; they all seem to be acting out of some unexpressed hatred and fear of their fellow man, and for the benefit of the global corporate elite alone!
Trump may be in their league, but I had always thought of him as a bombastic buffoon with a high level of narcissism; his presidential policies seemed to be too benign and effective to place him at the top of the scale with the other looters and plunderers!
Rome was great during the Roman warm period. When it got cold, like the present, Rome collapsed.
Well that and all the infighting, backstabbing and power struggles going on. Oh, wait a sec…
Divergence story tip
Wales has pushed the envelope. Fresh from the bump in the polls from a mere delay in Net Zero
“”Rishi Sunak set to block new 20mph zones for drivers as he slams rules as ‘attack on motorists’””
“”Ending the war on motorists will be the latest in a series of “red meat” policies designed to win back swinging voters.””
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/24197134/rishi-sunak-set-to-block-new-20mph-zones/
Drip drip….
I believe it when it happens, Strat, fingers crossed though
But it seems that Sunak has not changed the requirements for manufacturers to sell an increasing proportion of electric cars and heat pumps.
The claim seems to be, in the paper, that the annual cost per household of all the Net Zero moves so far is 850 sterling per household per year. At least that’s what I think the table is saying, its not very explicit.
Is that right? Paul Homewood has added up UK subsidies, and got to about 450 of the ones that can be counted directly. The claim seems to be there is another 400 in other sources, pricing effects and so on as enumerated in the paper.
Its an interesting and suggestive paper, but a bit light on explaining where the specific numbers come from.
The mechanisms identified are plausible. And its clear to anyone who looks at the actual performance of UK wind that increasing the percentage of wind is a way of increasing gas consumption. There is no way to get to very high percentages. They will either fail, and burn more gas, so not get above some percentage. Or they will not use the gas and have blackouts.
That’s a good write-up by Andrew Montford. I would add that his final table of costs only reflects approximately the current situation. As we go further towards renewables some of those costs are going to escalate alarmingly – particularly constraint payments/curtailment, followed by grid costs for extra transmission and stabilisation. By the time we get to about 50GW of wind capacity we can expect that curtailment will account for about half the output of the marginal wind farm, doubling the cost of its useful output. Plough on to 90GW and it will be more like 80-85% of the output would be wasted, pushing up the marginal cost 5-7x. And still we would need gas backup for perhaps 25% of total supply, and close to 100% of peak demand.
Wind is the gift that keeps on taking.
Re grid costs. Wind Europe press release 5th September 23 ‘No energy transition without expanded grid’
“No transition without transmission …………without these critical investments Europe cannot deliver its energy security and climate targets”
“Europe is not investing enough in its electricity grids. Renewables (sic) are expanding rapidly, EVs are growing and heat pumps are taking off. But the grid is not expanding at the same pace……needs to ramp up grid investments from 40bn euros to 80bn euros pa”
“Delayed grid reinforcement and connections are among the main bottlenecks to timely installation of new wind energy projects. More than 100GW of renewable projects are waiting for grid connection in Spain, more than 50gw in Romania”
Europe “can produce up to 1900km of offshore cable a year today…..needs up to 3200km by 2030”
See unreliables are cheaper, its just getting their electricity to the consumer that is costly 🙂
https://windeurope.org/newsroom/
Waiting for Nick to pop up and say that this can’t be true because wind is free and coal/nat gas plants don’t cost anything when they aren’t running.
The first one is not correct. People don’t get paid at highest rate all of them. Usually the base gets paid, the ones that usually run, that gets auctioned at a much lower rate, then the rest gets auctioned, and backup padding get auctioned to be ready. The problem becomes when first buy of renewables. If there was no first buy there would be no problems. This is the market distortion that needs to be fixed. The grid operators buy as their needs are.
When one understands first purchase, then the killing of nuclear plants gets made clear. They are always on, they always get paid first and at the low rate. More renewables can’t encroach on this. And if the political desire (or corruption) is more renewables then you shut off nukes. To the tragedy of everyone.
Not quite how it works in the UK. Every generator and retailer and other registered electricity traders are free to trade with each other any time from years ahead up to gate closure, an hour before each half hour settlement period of live generation starts. Those contracts are all registered centrally, and deviations from contract volumes (measured by metered sales in the case of retailers and metered output for generators) are adjusted at the balancing system price for net balancing trades. Balancing purchases and sales (after gate closure) are conducted directly with the Grid as counterparty, and the cost of those is shared out.
What that means is if you are a nuclear plant that sold a long time back and you suffer a plant trip, or a wind farm that hedged output but finds that the wind doesn’t blow, you could suffer a huge bill for shortfall. A retailer who failed to secure adequate purchases to cover its customers would likewise pay the shortage price. The reverse happens when there is a renewables surfeit: the balancing price will be very low – likely even negative. So it makes sense for those who can (e.g. CCGT plants) to cover their sales by purchasing from wind farms at ultra low prices, and switching off.
Balancing mechanism trades are paid as bid on the volumes provided. The Grid will try to select the cheapest options, but may not always be able to do so because it must avoid undue operational risk. Thus it gets forced to make constraint payments in Scotland when it’s windy because otherwise the transmission lines would overheat and fail due to lack of capacity. Because wind farms lose subsidies when they curtail, they seek recompense for that, plus extra for the insult. Meanwhile in England a CCGT plant probably has to increase output to make up for the wind generation not coming South, and may be in a position to charge a premium price for the privilege.
Because all the GB nuclear is owned by EdF, who are also a major retailer, they can keep the risks of the balancing mechanism in house by regarding nuclear as a natural hedge for their retail position, with other generation potentially providing plant trip cover. They still have retail volume risk as well to handle of course.
CCGT plants tend to be the main providers of forward hedge sales. They do this by locking in a forward gas purchase against the sale, thus guaranteeing a margin. So the real hedging comes from gas producers. Again, the volatile markets made performance risk extreme, so forward hedge sales dropped dramatically last year.
The result is that the market has increasingly concentrated on the very short term day ahead up to gate closure timescale when plant availability and wind generation can be forecast more reliably. It has become more or less a spot market, even for nuclear with ageing plants that may have to be shut down at any time.
The basic problem I have with this type of evaluation is the making of power is a really cheap commodity.
When I worked at the local power plant people would blame me for their high power bill which was often twice mine. No I did not get discount, I used less.
There is the cost of getting the power to your house. And the cost of taxes listed on your your bill and the hidden taxes.
So go ahead a gripe but you may want to avoid me. How much did you pay for your last bottle wine?
The basic problem I have with this type of evaluation is the making of power is a really cheap commodity.
Well that is the very beginning of the climate changer problems and then there’s the cost of switching from large hub and spoke distribution to spaghetti and meatballs. If that’s not costly enough then they want to massively increase demand for electricity when the sun don’t shine-
Could electric vehicles charge the way to a net zero emissions future? (msn.com)
Research by the University of Queensland (UQ) suggests a change in charging behaviour is needed as more electric vehicles (EVs) take to the road.
UQ environmental economist Dr Andrea La Nauze said a lot of EV charging occurred in the evenings.
No suggests about it Andrea as it will be imperative but it’s philanthropic fantasy to believe EV owners are going to stump up for bigger batteries than their transport needs in order for the communal grid to thrash said excess. We can’t even keep up with public EV chargers now let alone a power point for every carpark during the working day week. What are these people smoking or snorting?
If it was the U of Colorado I think I know what they are smoking.
I worked in the power industry. We know how to make power. There is fitness programs too. There is not going to be a problem in the US.
Wind and solar is mickey mouse. There is a theme park with a fantasy area for children.
In the US, making providing electricity is a public service. If the public wants wind and solar we will give them some. It does not matter if 99% of the people want net zero it is not going to happen.
The best I can tell it is a political slogan like banning the ICE.
Very nice.
TIP TIP
Jackson Buys 8 Electric Buses For Transit System, But None Are Working | Your Wyoming News Source (cowboystatedaily.com)