There is a storm brewing in the New York City food scene, a storm born out of seemingly well-intentioned climate change regulations. Yet, the key question remains, is it a storm we need to weather?
According to a recent article from The Post, the New York City Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) has proposed new rules targeting decades-old baking methods in pizzerias. Specifically, the department is cracking down on coal-and-wood-fired ovens, demanding a 75% reduction in carbon emissions. DEP spokesman Ted Timbers explains,
“All New Yorkers deserve to breathe healthy air and wood and coal-fired stoves are among the largest contributors of harmful pollutants in neighborhoods with poor air quality.”
While the desire for cleaner air is something we can all get behind, the overall impact of these regulations is questionable at best. A city official admitted that less than 100 restaurants would be affected by the mandate, leading us to ask, is it worth it?
Paul Giannone, owner of Paulie Gee’s in Greenpoint, reportedly spent $20,000 on an air filter system in anticipation of the new rules, a price that many small businesses can ill afford. Giannone summed up the situation, stating,
“Oh yeah, it’s a big expense! It’s not just the expense of having it installed, it’s the maintenance. I got to pay somebody to do it, to go up there every couple of weeks and hose it down and you know do the maintenance.”
https://nypost.com/2023/06/25/nyc-rules-crack-down-on-coal-wood-fired-pizzerias-must-cut-carbon-emissions-up-to-75/
Another anonymous restaurateur, furious at the proposed rules, exclaimed,
“And for what? You really think that you’re changing the environment with these eight or nine pizza ovens?!”
Adding to the controversy, many patrons argue that the change would alter the taste of the pizzas baked in these traditional ovens. Brooklyn Heights resident Saavi Sharma lamented,
“I’m all for responsible environmental practice but tell Al Gore to take one less private jet or something. Give me a break!”
https://nypost.com/2023/06/25/nyc-rules-crack-down-on-coal-wood-fired-pizzerias-must-cut-carbon-emissions-up-to-75/
Dave Portnoy weighs in.
While DEP officials claim they consulted with restaurateurs to develop the rules, the responses suggest the opposite. The truth of the matter is, these regulations not only threaten the authenticity and taste of New York City pizza, but they also place an unnecessary burden on small businesses already hit hard by COVID-19 pandemic.
As the anonymous restaurateur pointed out, if this mandate is about making a significant difference in environmental impact, then it is utterly misdirected.
To echo Sharma’s sentiments, let’s focus on the real culprits of environmental pollution and not meddle with our slice. The flavor of authentic New York City pizza, baked in a coal-and-wood-fired oven, is a legacy we should preserve, not regulate out of existence.
People benefit from it, so of course greens will oppose it.
The greens are the 21st century version of the hair shirt. Everyone must be miserable and uncomfortable all the time. It doesn’t matter how useful or effective a measure will be. This is about the propagation of unhappiness.
From Carlo M. Cipolla’s The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity:
Law #3: A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses.
Yes but the greens are happy that you are not.
It’s not greens. These are just petty city bureaucrats justifying their existence by finding something new to regulate just because some idiot gave them the power to do so.
Having been regulated by CARB in California, my presumption is that they are zealots, with no sense of cost to benefits.
Leave these dunces to run your city and this is what you get !
Exactly. Deliverance from the ill effects of progressivism doesn’t occur until the citizens of such enclaves realize that only they have the authority to free themselves.
Give us pizza or give us death!
Now there’s a rallying cry.
These are the same Stalinist moron-tyrants who want to ban beach fires.
Pizza without wood-fired ovens are not pizzas.
The Green Meanie creed: Let them eat sun-dried bugs!
Our Pizza, which art from ovens, hallowed be thy name.
The DEP has come, the woodfire’s done,
though smoke made you taste like heaven.
Give us this day our daily crust,
just give us our wood and coal
as we prefer crust that’s smoky and singed.
Lead us not into California
but deliver us from wokeness
For thine is the pie we prefer by the slice
Forever
Amen
This quote from C.S. Lewis:
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
I love that one!
. DEP spokesman Ted Timbers explains,
No mention of climate change there.
Nick this obsession with combustion sources in 100% driven by the underlying motive to eliminate fossil fuels. From the made up “research” about gas stoves causing asthma, to insane fear of PM 2.5 at natural background levels.
It’s like gun control by prohibiting ammunition or shooting ranges.
You’re inability to view things in context is a skill worthy of a television series.
Charles,
You just see ghosts. They are making a simple rule about local air pollution. They say so.
We had those rules over 30 years ago.
I don’t know if this is a good rule. But that is what it is for.
Except it seems they never recognize the Law of Unintended Consequences. This seems to be a defining characteristic of utopians.
The article clearly mentioned new rules, not something 30 years ago. Rules to clean real pollutants not bully a few businesses for enviro-nazis kicks.
Please stop Nick, you’re embarrassing yourself.
Nick,
First they’ll come for your soot
Then they’ll come for your PM 2.5
Then they’ll come for your CO2
Then they’ll come for your children
Then they’ll come for you
OK, genius.
What, precisely, were the levels of “local air pollution” 30 years (and 50 years) ago? And what are they now?
And how many death certificates both then and now, identifying “local air pollution” as cause of death?
If London is any guide, there is just one little girl with that recent distinction.
A little girl who was severely asthmatic and who lived next to a major traffic junction but whose parents never thought to move house. Smokers in the house? Keen do-it-yourselfers with a big electric sander? Any mould growing? Doesn’t seem like anyone asked!
All they needed then was just one Coroner who was an activist and the rest is history.
I remember when “local air pollution” was a real problem. Several orders of magnitude worse that anything today in London or New York, where until the Covid scamdemic, life expectancy was increasing, just like it was in Peking, Delhi, Mandalay and other places with recent air quality issues.
Big Albert still keeping you in funds?
G’Day Martin,
“local air pollution”
Try Los Angeles in the early 1970’s. With apologies to Longfellow,
“I shot an arrow into the air, and it stuck there…..”
Big factories used to pump out vast amounts of real air pollution. Worrying about the air pollution from a pizza parlor is excessive.
Excessive to the extreme.
As a child, I lived about 1,000′ from a paper factory. My house was up on a hill so I could see across the town. The smoke coming out the chimney of that factory was pitch black. I don’t know why- whether it was burning diesel or some paper by-product. And the river next to it was essentially dead. The mill dumped all sorts of stuff into the river- including pulp that didn’t meet specifications. The stuff smelled like a sewer and you could smell all over the town- on hot days. The river would turn colors and you could see what looked like soap foam several feet high. The mill went out of business decades ago. The river is now much cleaner with a lot of wildlife in it and near it. That was real pollution.
Nick: I found no indication that New York City has had a PM 2.5 non-attainment issue for several years. Aside from recent temporary issues due to Canadian wildfires and unusual weather patterns, NYC does not seem to have pollution problems that can be traced to wood/coal/charcoal burning. So this seems like typical regulator overreach based on perceptions an not facts.
The NLT guideline has ZERO science behind it. It drives a lot of “no benefit” restrictions and regulations.
I makes less sense than the model that are the sole drivers of the “Climate” hysteria.
And what eco-zealot or MSM reporter won’t tell you that Clima-Change™ is driven by carbon pollution?
Disingenuous once again… From the link provided…
”The New York City Department of
Environmental Protection has drafted new rules that would order eateries using the decades-old baking method to slice carbon emissions by up to 75%.”
So having to slice carbon emissions by 75% is nothing to do climate change?? Gmab.
Someone at the NY Post said that.
Someone at EVERY media outlet that reported on it said that. INCLUDING the Leftist ones.
But they all parroted the line from other journalists. A clear demonstration of the average intelligence of most journalists: dumber than a sack of hammers. And lazy. None of them bothered to fact-check it. And left-biased. They just parroted the line because it fits their lazy, leftist world view. Nowhere in the rules is there any mention of carbon emissions or climate change. And where did the journalist get the idea that a MERV 15 filter or HEPA filter designed to trap particulates has any effect whatsoever on “carbon emissions”? Utter nonsense from nonsensical people.
As Nick Stokes correctly notes, there is no mention of climate change or carbon emissions in the proposed regulations. That bit was added by an editorializing journalist. Other news outlets just parroted the line. The emissions rules are designed to reduce PM2.5 particulates (which has no tangible health benefit backed by a credible study despite the numerous claims of deaths prevented by reducing PM2.5 particulates based on computer models and spurious extrapolations from epidemiological data).
Here is the NYC EPA page. Look under the sections for Commercial Char Broilers and Commercial Cook Stoves.
https://www.nyc.gov/site/dep/environment/building-construction-emissions.page
The 2016 rules were supposed to go into full effect by 2020 but were postponed due to the COVID-19 panicdemic. Here is the 2016 legislation. See § 24-149.4 Commerical char broilers and § 24-149.5 Cook stoves on pages 30 and 31.
https://www.nyc.gov/assets/dep/downloads/pdf/air/air-pollution-control-code.pdf#page32
This article also parrots the line about how the pollution control equipment, costing around $20 to $30 thousand, “could cut carbon emissions by 75%” but explains better what will happen.
https://6abc.com/new-pizza-rules-york-city-department-of-environmental-protection-pizzeria/13429894/
NYC EPA will hold a virtual public hearing on July 27 at 11am about implementing the regulations. Mayor Adams says, “Let’s let the public weigh in, and then we can have a conversation if we’re going to move forward or not.”
It would affect about 60 pizzerias.
“harmful pollutants in neighborhoods with poor air quality.”
This is Social Justice Warrior (SJW) speak.
Woke and Broke.
You didn’t read very close before issuing your latest nitpick:
“Specifically, the department is cracking down on coal-and-wood-fired ovens, demanding a 75% reduction in carbon emissions.”
As I said above, a NY Post journalist made that up. NYC did not say that.
But you call CO2 a pollutant, and we all know this initiative is about CO2. You’re being disingenuous.
Drax sustainable carbon neutral woodchips to the rescue.
Yeah, what’s the difference in burning wood at Drax and burning wood in a pizza oven? The alarmists say it is ok to burn wood at Drax, so why not in pizza ovens?
Some woods is more equal than others. Nick Stokes these fires and he will explain the fine nuances to you should you get it wrong.
I don’t think I have ever eaten a pizza cooked in a wood stove.
During my last year of high school and 4 years of college, I worked in a pizza shop. We used gas and thick slabs of asbestos (I think). Home ovens have always been electric. My interest is heightened. I’ll have to install a backyard oven and give this a try.
I did visit NYC one time. No pizza as I recall.
Then you’ve not had pizza.
Try some real pizza in Naples. Italy.
With a risk of starting a pizza war, coal fired pizza is the only way to go. I grew up on Pepe’s in New Haven Ct, his coal oven was in use a long time and gave the crust a slight charred flavor that I have never found anywhere else.
The truly great pizzas have the proper balance of sauce and cheese. The sauce must be made from San Marzano tomatoes and should never be over spiced. Over spiced sauce is just a cover up for bad dough. The dough must be salted enough to give it flavor. Properly made pizza can be cooked in any oven and will come out good with coal the best.
I indulged in a portable charcoal pizza oven a while back. Makes
an excellent pie with a bit of practice. I use lump charcoal with a couple of pieces of
wood in a chimney starter, no fluid. Gets up to temp very quick.
Try Caputo “oo’ flour ,red bag, for a thin crust type. I saw them on sale
at WallyWorld for $89 and couldn’t resist. Utube has some good vids
on some different brands.
I use it on a metal table in the yard with a picnic table to create them on. A good
peel is advised of course…Google *portable pizza oven* lots to choose
from.
I’ve spent a good amount of time visiting NYC and the
dining was always amazing. The back ribs at Blue Smoke were the best to name
one.
Giuliani ran the city in a good way, the
last couple of mayors, eh not so good.
One TV commentator put it this way: ” You can take my pizza when you can pry it fro my cold dead fingers “.
I would add “chubby” to the finger description.
Government is not the solution, government is the problem.
…seemingly well-intentioned climate change regulations
There is no such thing. “Climate change” regulation is not well-intentioned. It’s designed to force compliance by happy, productive humans with the capricious decrees, the lunacy, of uptight, autocratic people with control issues. They have no basis in reality or science and there is no desire for the petty dictators to compromise in any way or concede to pragmatism.
Green puritanism.
Look on the bright side, at least they didn’t fall into the easy mandate option of forcing all pizza eaters attending those traditional smoke filled authentic tasty food prep venues to wear a face mask….
Shame in a way, because here in the UK we have a whole field full of PPC mostly face masks, where container after container of the things was simply dumped behind a casual cowboy operated (sic) recycling facility in Southampton. Part of the ‘defeat Covid’ policies apparently. State purchases that were panic buys and useless just one example of many, Hand in Cock, Buy it cheap dump it high’ best practices. We could ship them all to NY and keep the Pizza clients in masks for generations to come.
If that option isn’t sufficient, we also have a few warehouses of mechanical ventilators urgently purchased you understand. These all unused are immediately available for repurposing, ideal to resuscitate the pizza diners, overcome with smoke from those Bristlecone pine hockey sticks, so often used to fire up the ovens…
Saavi Sharma lamented, “I’m all for responsible environmental practice but …”
_______________________________________________________________
Rules for thee, but not for me.
Story tip:BP Energy Review 2022 | NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT (wordpress.com)
Renewables not having much impact on emissions. Notalotofpeopleknowthat (@Notalotofpeopl1) / Twitter
if you don’t want to inflict green idiocy on your business or on your children for that matter, then stop voting for idiots.
FFS, it should read CO2, NOT carbon.
It’s NewSpeak.
While DEP officials claim they consulted with restaurateurs to develop the rules
They may have, just not any who would be affected by the rules. Probably consulted with their competitors.
I have seen a bunch of these New York restaurateurs on tv this morning being highly critical of these new proposals.
It doesn’t sound like these people were consulted. 🙂 They are not happy campers.
If we are going to take serious measures to curb harmful emissions then the place to start is with the oral emissions of the bureaucrats and progressive politicians. We need to design and deploy facial occlusion devices that prevent unscientific verbal emissions from leaking out of these dangerous social predators. I am sure the targeted group will want to go along with this as “the science is settled”. A consensus of people with brains agrees there is no other option. We only have 2 years 3 months, 17 days and 12.3762 hours to prevent Armageddon. Let’s get those mask on now.
The net result will be that New Yawkas who want a real pizza cooked in a wood-fired oven will take the PATH train to Hoboken or Jersey City on the west bank of the Hudson River, where NYC law doesn’t apply. The smoke from the pizza ovens in NaJoisey will be blown back over NYC by the prevailing westerly winds.
The net result is no effect on the environment, but a boon for NJ pizzerias.
Full disclosure: I am a Hoboken alumnus.
Will there be a protest of similar magnitude in the late 2020’s, or possibly even earlier, when NYC’s power load pocket peaker plants are directed to close? (My prediction …. no.)
Italy: ‘Pizza’ fresco found in ancient ruins of Pompeii
Experts say that the ancient fresco, which depicts a flat bread with assorted toppings on a tray with other food, could be a “distant relative” of modern-day pizza. There are a few key ingredients missing, however
I hope, Climate “Scientists” don’t search for a correlation between pizza baking and Pompeji destruction 😀
Maybe the “pizzas” are what triggered the volcano?
All those volcano gases and dust ended the Roman Warm Period?
OH! Wait. Mann’s little stick says there was no Roman Warm Period.
Never mind.
All we are saying is, give pizza a chance.
🍕
Oh no, Yoko!
Pizza can save the world, but not a New York pizza. It would have to be a Chicago deep dish.
Leftism is about incrementally pissing off everyone in order of their allegiance to the left. Sorry, NYC, you’re next.