The Briefing Begins In CHECC v. EPA

From the MANHATTAN CONTRARIAN

Francis Menton

In a post last week, I gave notice that battle was about to be joined with the EPA over what it claims to be the “science” behind global warming alarm. The case is called the Concerned Household Electricity Consumers Council (CHECC) v. EPA, now pending in the DC Circuit Court of Appeals. CHECC challenges EPA’s 2009 Finding that CO2 and other greenhouse gases constitute a “danger” to human health and welfare. At the outset of the Trump administration, CHECC filed a Petition for reconsideration and rescission of the Endangerment Finding. That Petition was finally denied by EPA on April 20, 2022, more than a year into the Biden administration, and the appeal followed. I am one of the attorneys for CHECC.

The opening Brief on behalf of CHECC was filed on October 14, and a week later on October 21 an amicus curiae brief was filed in support of CHECC by the CO2 Coalition, together with Professors William Happer of Princeton and Richard Lindzen of MIT. I was going to start off with a review of the CHECC brief, which I helped to prepare, but as luck would have it our CHECC brief got “bounced” by the clerks at the DC Circuit. For those of you who have never dealt with court clerks, there is a great resemblance to the DMV, or perhaps to the old Soviet bureaucracy. The alleged ground for bouncing our brief was that we had used too many acronyms — things like EPA, IPCC, GHG (greenhouse gases), GAST (global average surface temperature), and so forth. Our use of such acronyms was somehow deemed excessive, so we need to go back and make some very minor modifications before there is a completely final version of the brief. Rather than confuse things by referring to a brief that will shortly change in minor ways, I’ll start today by covering some of the highlights of the CO2 Coalition amicus brief.

First, we are extremely honored to have such distinguished and serious scientists supporting our position. For those who haven’t heard of them, Professors Happer and Lindzen are, respectively, the senior atmospheric physicists on the faculties of Princeton and MIT. Their lists of titles, awards and honors are almost endless, and occupy several pages in the brief. The CO2 Coalition is a large group of top scientists and people in related fields with specialties related in one way or another to the global warming subject matter, and whose views lean toward skepticism. Happer is the Chair of the CO2 Coalition, and Lindzen is a member.

You might think that tackling the “science” of CO2-driven atmospheric warming is just too heavy a lift to get a court interested, and maybe that’s where this court will end up. But this brief shows why the subject is not really that complicated. At page 18 the brief quotes the famous aphorism of physicist Richard Feynman, “If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong.” In other words, it’s just a question of finding a few, or even one, example where the theory relied on by EPA is contradicted by the data.

The brief minces no words in distinguishing real science from the government-dictated orthodoxy and consensus on which EPA relies. This is from the summary of argument:

Scientific knowledge is determined by the scientific method, through which theoretical predictions are validated or rejected by observations. If the theoretical predictions do not work, the theory is rejected. That’s real science. Scientific knowledge is not determined by government-controlled opinions, consensus, peer review, or theoretical models that do not work. Those are false science. This brief applies the scientific method to the Endangerment Findings and its supporting Technical Support Document and demonstrates both are scientifically corrupted and thus must be rescinded .. . . .

In subsequent sections the brief compares IPCC model predictions of catastrophic warming — specifically relied upon by EPA in the Endangerment Finding’s Technical Support Document — to temperature observations thus far in the real world. They include this famous chart from Congressional testimony given by John Christy back in 2017:

From the brief, commenting on the divergence of theory from observations:

We now know the IPCC theoretical climate models, an early version of which was used in the Endangerment Findings and Technical Support Document, fail the basic test of the scientific method and, thus, should not be used. Without a valid theoretical model, the IPCC’s future climate projections and scenarios have no scientific validity. For this reason alone, the Findings and Technical Support Document should be rescinded.

And the brief does not just end after demonstrating that EPA’s theoretical projections of climate catastrophe have been scientifically invalidated. Pages 30-32 are then devoted to a presentation of new work by Professor Happer and co-author William van Wijngaarden demonstrating why the capacity of CO2 and other greenhouse gases to warm the atmosphere is largely saturated at current concentrations, such that further increases in concentrations only have the potential to cause insignificant further warming. The Happer/van Wijngaarden paper is definitely technical and challenging to understand. However, in the context of this dispute, it is just an additional argument not essential to victory. The key point is that EPA’s “science” has been invalidated by evidence.

Full article can be read here.

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AGW is Not Science
October 23, 2022 2:08 pm

Yes! Attack attack attack! This bullshit has to be barred from being codified into law!

Bryan A
Reply to  AGW is Not Science
October 23, 2022 3:27 pm

Just imagine what would have happened if the Geocentric belief were codified into law…Heliocentrists would have been prosecuted and jailed…Oh Wait…
Or if Flat Earth had been codified into law…Columbus would have been jailed for wanting to sail west to travel east…
Or if a noble gas plants required to grow were codified into law as Toxic … hmmm … The loons are trying that one now!!!

DHR
Reply to  Bryan A
October 23, 2022 7:33 pm

Which noble gas is that?

Gnrnr
Reply to  DHR
October 23, 2022 9:17 pm

So not just me confused then.

MarkW
Reply to  DHR
October 23, 2022 9:34 pm

I believe that would be any gas that has been knighted.

Reply to  MarkW
October 23, 2022 10:02 pm

I believe that would be any gas that has been knighted.

I think that’s “ennobled” 🤣

OweninGA
Reply to  DHR
October 24, 2022 5:47 am

I believe he meant noble as in earning respect rather than the chemical meaning.

Reply to  OweninGA
October 24, 2022 9:36 am

that’s what I saw.

Reply to  Bryan A
October 23, 2022 9:26 pm

Galileo and others were prosecuted for not believing Geocentric – it was codified

Reply to  jimmywalter
October 24, 2022 1:15 am

That’s the joke.

OweninGA
Reply to  jimmywalter
October 24, 2022 5:49 am

Galileo was prosecuted for being a jerk to the pope and the pope not being amused at being turned into a simpleton in Galileo’s essay.

Reply to  OweninGA
October 24, 2022 9:45 am

He was prosecuted for not playing the game.

The tool used to prosecute him was that the earth was the center of the universe.

Same type of thing happens today, facilitated by those in power.

Michael Flynn was prosecuted for not playing the game; the tool used to prosecute him was ‘lying to someone”. Clapper etal play the game, so they are not prosecuted.

Climate Heretic
Reply to  AGW is Not Science
October 24, 2022 2:20 pm

My reply to the article can be summarised or long story short. Attack, Attack, Atack.

Regards
Climate Heretic
PS Your reply was succinct.

October 23, 2022 2:09 pm

The IPCC and the EPA seem to be using religion more than science. CO2 is “pollution” in a religious sense, so of course they will try to ban it.

Curious George
Reply to  Tom Halla
October 23, 2022 2:17 pm

“Religion” has been rebranded as “science”. Elites are really good at it.

Gary Pate
Reply to  Curious George
October 23, 2022 11:57 pm

#ClimateScientology

Reply to  Tom Halla
October 23, 2022 2:18 pm

It is just like I said. If you xannot measure it in an experiment you cannot prove it. There is no global warming due to more CO2 .

Bryan A
Reply to  HenryP
October 23, 2022 3:34 pm

There is some warming from CO2.
Don’t believe it? Here’s your experiment.
Identical cubic yard containers made from acrylic.
One gets ambient air.
One gets Nitrogen/Oxygen/Neon/Argon mix to approximate ambient air.
(But no CO2 or CH4)
Expose both to sunlight for 3 daily cycles.
The one without the GHGs will heat less during the day and cool faster at night

The sealed cubic yard container without the GHGs would cool down to -18c or 0f due to the lack of a greenhouse effect

Reply to  Bryan A
October 23, 2022 4:30 pm

And your experiment has what to do with the Earth’s atmosphere?

Bryan A
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 24, 2022 5:21 am

Simply show that without the current concentrations of GHGs the Earth would be very cold (snowball earth). The greenhouse effect is real and GHGs do have a warming effect. If they didn’t we’d be an averaged of about 59f (45c) colder than we are (with the averaged temp being -30c or 0f instead f the current 59f).
The problem with GW theory though is that the additional load we’re contributing isn’t going to create a runaway hothouse nor the predicted cataclysms that the doom and gloomers predict either and has been Net Beneficial.

Reply to  Bryan A
October 28, 2022 9:55 am

The problem with GW theory though is that the additional load we’re contributing isn’t going to create a runaway hothouse nor the predicted cataclysms that the doom and gloomers predict either and has been Net Beneficial.

  1. nobody argues for a runaway
  2. nobody has proven net beneficial in a controlled study
AGW is Not Science
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 25, 2022 11:51 am

Exactly. Even if a valid experiment shows the “more CO2” containing ‘chamber’ to heat up more than the one with “ambient” CO2, that would only provide support for the purely hypothetical effect; it does not demonstrate what would occur in the Earth’s atmosphere at all.

Bryan A
Reply to  AGW is Not Science
October 25, 2022 9:54 pm

Apparently you misread the proposed experiment parameter.
One chamber is ambient atmospheric mix while the other was filled only from tanks of N and O with traces of Ar (78% N2, 21% O2, and 0.9% Ar) devoid of the trace amount of other gasses making the other 1+% including GHGs

Reply to  AGW is Not Science
October 28, 2022 9:55 am

wrong. any chamber test would be off topic

Reply to  Bryan A
October 23, 2022 4:36 pm

No, natural convection around the box and thermal conduction through the acrylic will result in them both being the same temperature, or maybe the one you didn’t realize was shaded from the sun for 10 extra minutes will be .0001 degrees cooler….

Paul in Boston
Reply to  Bryan A
October 23, 2022 5:01 pm

Let’s suppose that I have a cylinder of nitrogen at one atmosphere and a similar one that contains CO2 also at one atmosphere. I’m willing to bet you that the temperature inside the cylinders is identical and will track room temperature.

Did you actually do your experiment? Inquiring minds would like to know.

MarkW
Reply to  Paul in Boston
October 23, 2022 9:36 pm

The CO2 might warm up slower because it is denser and has more mass.

Bryan A
Reply to  MarkW
October 24, 2022 5:28 am

The CO2 box would be warmer from 2 factors. GHG assisting in retaining heat and negligible yet slight increase in atmosphere pressure also causing a net increase in temp.

Bryan A
Reply to  Paul in Boston
October 25, 2022 10:00 pm

Suffice it to say, if I did, you wouldn’t believe me. If I did and had a video of the results, you wouldn’t believes it, you’d claim it was hoaxed or photoshopped. The only way you’d be reasonably convinced is if you did it yourself.

Reply to  Bryan A
October 23, 2022 5:26 pm

CO2 has a mass of about 44.01 grams per mole. That mass would be absent from your test box. Being of less mass the test box should have a slightly higher temperature than the ambient box given the same energy input.

So I think your experiment is a fail.

Bryan A
Reply to  mkelly
October 24, 2022 5:44 am

The contents of the box with current GHG levels of CO2 would weigh approx 2.64 lbs
The contents of the box without current CO2 would weigh approx 2.6238432 lbs
The weight of CO2 at current concentrations is 0.0161568 lbs per m3

rhs
Reply to  Bryan A
October 24, 2022 6:02 am

Yet, the experiment still fails.

Reply to  Bryan A
October 24, 2022 12:22 am

Is that you, Bill Nye?

The Real Engineer, CEng etc.
Reply to  Bryan A
October 24, 2022 1:56 am

This “experiment” has been shown to be false and concocted several times although still on youtube as truth. There are myriad reasons why it doesn’t work, and should not work, but I’m sure you couldn’t identify even one. The first is that the warmer cube would loose more heat by convection on the walls, and the second is that if equal energy is applied to both cubes, they must be at the same temperature. You cannot invent some extra energy with CO2!

Bryan A
Reply to  The Real Engineer, CEng etc.
October 24, 2022 5:25 am

The false and concocted experiment took ambient atmosphere (with current GHG levels) and one with increased CO2 levels. Both had GHGs in the mix.

rhs
Reply to  Bryan A
October 24, 2022 6:18 am

On the list of problems with this setup is the blocking of infrared light. The cornerstone of AGW is the additional absorption of heat caused be additional CO2. When the IR isn’t allowed into the container, the conditions are not being correctly simulated.

Bryan A
Reply to  rhs
October 24, 2022 12:31 pm

So what, in the parameters of my experiment, would be blocking IR?

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  Bryan A
October 25, 2022 12:32 pm

Nothing false about attempting to see the effect of increasing CO2 from current ambient levels – that’s what the panic is about, after all.

Bryan A
Reply to  AGW is Not Science
October 25, 2022 10:07 pm

Though the proposed experiment is about showing that the air devoid of GHGs would be colder and leave the world far colder thereby showing that the current mix of GHGs is both beneficial and why we’re even able to be here. (To show GHGs, including CO2, DO increase temperatures)

Drake
Reply to  Bryan A
October 24, 2022 12:50 pm

Years ago I read a blog post where the poster said that IF CO2 acted as the climatistas proposed that if one tried to verify the temperature of deep space as originally done, that the temperature would be higher NOW than when the experiment was first done.

Do you know if anyone has done that experiment?

Stan Brown
Reply to  Bryan A
October 24, 2022 5:27 pm

What about the water vapor?

Bryan A
Reply to  Stan Brown
October 24, 2022 6:57 pm

Water vapor is a GHG just like CO2 and CH4 … (the major GHG)

Reply to  Bryan A
October 28, 2022 9:56 am

to test agw, you need a cold vacuum of space at one end of your chamber

Reply to  HenryP
October 28, 2022 9:53 am

simple. lets decrease c02 and see if it cools

October 23, 2022 2:18 pm

Finally, another effort to uncover the truth behind the EPA Finding. It’s amazing that the “logic” used for their findings is still not available to the public, even though on Obama’s first day in office, he pledged to run “the most transparent administration in history.” Hopefully this new appeal will help Obama achieve his transparency promise. Here is a short reminder video …

Scissor
Reply to  John Shewchuk
October 23, 2022 3:40 pm

Nice. Cool.

October 23, 2022 2:33 pm

You really ought to update that Christy graph to the latest data.

Temperatures have dropped since the 2015/16 El Nino.

CD in Wisconsin
Reply to  b.nice
October 23, 2022 3:49 pm

Just what I was thinking b.nice. It would be interesting to see how much more the climate models have diverged from observations since 2015. We are talking about seven more years here and going on eight.

Steve Z
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
October 24, 2022 11:28 am

Those submitting the amicus brief should include the temperature data through 2021 (last full year for which data are available), so that no opposing lawyer could criticize the lack of recent data.

Reply to  b.nice
October 23, 2022 4:30 pm

Yeah, that old 2015 graph just makes Christy look like he’s hiding something.

Reply to  DMacKenzie
October 23, 2022 10:05 pm

The decline?

Oh, no, that was someone else

Reply to  b.nice
October 23, 2022 4:31 pm

If one is going to argue that the Endangerment Finding is based on rubbish, then you have to use the rubbish upon which it was based, not today’s rubbish.

Reply to  b.nice
October 23, 2022 8:50 pm

Here are four more recent charts using CMIP6 data rather than the older CMIP5 data in the article:

Honest global warming chart Blog: Four comparisons of CMIP6 climate model predictions versus climate reality (elonionbloggle.blogspot.com)

4 Eyes
October 23, 2022 2:47 pm

Go for it. Years ago it wasn’t worth trying to disprove CAGW because not enough time had elapsed to collect relevant data. You now have enough to prove the models are wrong and that averaging unrelated models is even “wronger”. My dog glanced at that plot and gave me a puzzled look. If someone wants to use a model it should be the very bottom one with the faint dots in the figure. The modellers cannot claim that their models are just a bit wrong, they have to explain why and where they are wrong, delete them and then write new code and then history match them under the watchful eyes of qualified scientists.

res
Reply to  4 Eyes
October 24, 2022 5:16 am

Doesn’t more Carbon Dioxide lead to more Oxygen?

Wouldn’t lowering/restricting Carbon Dioxide also lower the altitudes at which humans can safely live?

Asking for a friend.

Kpar
October 23, 2022 3:02 pm

EXCELLENT! I cannot wait to spring this on a friend of mine (a retired EPA administrator) who is a TOTAL believer in CO2 warming.

Shortly after I met him (we have other common interests) he surprised my by admitting he had no idea that CO2 is a trailing indicator of global temps, not a leading indicator- that is, according to the Greenland Ice cores, CO2 rises 800 to 1,000 years AFTER temperatures rise.

I’ll admit I am a blue-collar guy, but I do have scientific training from my college days (a regular paycheck became of more interest than student loans), and I suspect that my early training might make me more scientifically literate than many of today’s Wokesters.

Joe Crawford
Reply to  Kpar
October 24, 2022 9:08 am

You might also show him Willis’ graph of Temperature vs CO2 at his post here: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/09/15/cooling-the-hothouse/

I don’t see how anyone can look at that graph and still believe CO2 is the main controller of the Earth’s temperature.

Capell Aris
October 23, 2022 3:04 pm

Can you use the acronym CO2?

Reply to  Capell Aris
October 24, 2022 8:29 am

Prof Lindzen will probably have to spell out MIT.

Clarky of Oz
October 23, 2022 3:29 pm

I am with the court clerks on this. All TLA’s (Three Letter Acronyms) should be banned.

Prjindigo
Reply to  Clarky of Oz
October 23, 2022 3:38 pm

so call em CUTLA Commonly Used Three Letter Acronyms… as this is in line with law

guidoLaMoto
Reply to  Clarky of Oz
October 24, 2022 2:04 am

Like EPA?

Reply to  guidoLaMoto
October 24, 2022 9:41 am

Environment Polluting Agency?

Prjindigo
October 23, 2022 3:36 pm

I hope the lawyers also point out that “chevron deference” is now unconstitutional according to the Supreme Court of the United States in ref to Roe vs Wade.

Richard Page
Reply to  Prjindigo
October 24, 2022 5:01 am

Er I believe it was West Virginia vs. EPA decision by the US Supreme Court that hammered the last nails into the coffin of the Chevron deference, a process started with American Hospital Association and Empire Health cases. As far as I’m aware, US courts have been increasingly inclined to ignore the Chevron deference and have been encouraged by the US Supreme Courts decisions to use the previous Skidmore deference instead.

Deacon
October 23, 2022 3:51 pm

This is fascinating news.
We are anxiously waiting for the next update.
So many of us “deniers” have been wondering when this Bad Science would come to a legal battle.
Please keep us posted at each step of the progress.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Deacon
October 23, 2022 6:04 pm

I’m certainly not holding my breath expecting a logical or just ruling.

Fairly certain that they will declare themselves incompetent to interpret scientific evidence or referee scientific controversy. Likely to punt it to Congress to make a law if they don’t agree with how the Executive branch is handling their delegated authority. Which means status quo until Jan 2025 at the earliest.

Trump had the opportunity to undo this and did not. So my cynical conclusion is that the fix is in. This never changes.

Reply to  Rich Davis
October 23, 2022 8:32 pm

You are correct – the courts are no place to adjudicate science. The Endangerment Finding (EF) can only be reversed if a future Administration appoints a ‘red team’ to review the ‘science’ supporting the EF and compare it with actual data.

To this end there is no lack of paleo evidence that CO2 has not controlled temperature during the past 65 my, that the ‘historical’ record has been compromised by data tampering and that the GCMs are neither consistent with observations nor capable of producing physically meaningful predictions.

Subsequently, publish the report with the notification that unless it’s results are meaningfully contested within some reasonable review period, the Administration will order the EF to be reversed.

Note, there is no need to produce an all-encompassing theory of climate change, as it only needs to be publicly shown that the EF is not supported by observations in accordance with the scientific method.

Reply to  Frank from NoVA
October 23, 2022 9:58 pm

It’s likely to be all about the procedural steps and the EPA likely have jumped to conclusions

Dave Fair
Reply to  Rich Davis
October 23, 2022 9:42 pm

The courts could appoint a “master” scientific team to evaluate each side’s argument. It would be a complicated undertaking, but well worth the effort. And they might be unable to find truly impartial scientists or those that would suspend their beliefs to honestly look at data and analyses.

Anyway, assuming this gets a hearing oral arguments will be a hoot.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Dave Fair
October 24, 2022 3:42 am

Yes, it’s likely that this was intended as a way to publicize our skeptical viewpoint, not really expecting success. A common Republican approach, somehow imagining that more people are influenced by the effort in vain than those who will conclude from the eventual loss that the Republicans are losers.

Greg
October 23, 2022 4:03 pm
October 23, 2022 4:35 pm

Don’t get too excited. The case is before the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, which is where the Steyn v Mann case has been for years. Mr Steyn has referred to it as a cesspool. It is where cases that aren’t friendly to popular narrative go to die.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 23, 2022 6:14 pm

Exactly right. Maybe it just doesn’t get any action for a decade before they declare that the Executive can do anything they want and only Congress can change it with a new law (until they do and it will then somehow be unconstitutional).

Don’t look to the corrupt system to correct itself. Too much money is involved.

Is there any hope? I doubt it. Why didn’t Trump act on this when he had the chance? If not Trump then who is likely to act?

Reply to  Rich Davis
October 24, 2022 5:45 am

‘Why didn’t Trump act on this when he had the chance? If not Trump then who is likely to act?’

If you enter ‘Trump’ and ‘Happer’ into your browser, you’ll get an avalanche of articles re. the Left wetting their pants because Trump was going to look into the ‘science’. Unfortunately, the Deep State intervened with Russia!, the Plandemic and Ukraine, so little progress was made. Like I said, a future Administration will need to get this done.

October 23, 2022 4:40 pm

If Climategate won’t take them down, this definitely won’t. Sorry to be negative but this will last forever at this rate.

October 23, 2022 4:55 pm

Don’t forget to add the quote from NASA’s head of GISS, Gavin Schmidt, about a year ago just before AR6 IPCC release:

“Models are running away too hot and we don’t know why.”

They somehow have disappeared this quote and a search brings up the obfuscating layers of of less bold statements containing praise of climate models and concern about the hottest models only. Here is one link that has the gist of it:

https://climatechangedispatch.com/climate-scientists-admit-climate-models-exaggerated-warming/

Certainly EPA relied on the bad models in 2008.

Reply to  Gary Pearse
October 23, 2022 6:52 pm

Gary:
Here is Gavin Schmidt’s 2016 attempt to explain away Christy’s spaghetti graph:
https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2016/05/comparing-models-to-the-satellite-datasets/
And here is a graph from Schmidt’s realclimate.org blog where he discusses the “too hot” CMIP6 model runs. Note that he appears to hide the hot runs by making the color very similar, then calculates the average of just the models he thinks are “OK”. The science is really “settled” when you can just arbitrarily ignore the parts that you don’t like! [Post Modernism meets Climate Science! — gotta love it!]
Lastly, here is an article discussing the “too hot” CMIP6 models, that contains a link to Zeke Hausfather’s original confession in Nature magazine:
https://www.science.org/content/article/use-too-hot-climate-models-exaggerates-impacts-global-warming

The Emperor is slowly becoming recognized as being scandulously undressed.

Schmidt_CMIP6_graph.png
Dave Fair
Reply to  B Zipperer
October 23, 2022 9:52 pm

We can’t let the bastards get away with using the altered surface temperatures to compare to model results.

Reply to  B Zipperer
October 23, 2022 10:01 pm

Thanks for that. Hopefully it will also intrigue the judges as well.
Of course EPA will just say it ‘doesnt matter’, which won’t go down well in a court room

Bob
October 23, 2022 5:16 pm

Bravo!

Chris Hanley
October 23, 2022 5:36 pm

The current climate hysteria and ensuing energy insanity will be judged ultimately in the court of public opinion.

MARTIN BRUMBY
Reply to  Chris Hanley
October 23, 2022 6:11 pm

True, but “ultimately” will show millions plunged into poverty and early death.

Which, of course, is precisely the plan.

Chris Hanley
Reply to  MARTIN BRUMBY
October 23, 2022 7:49 pm

Public opinion is already being demonstrated in widespread European protests against inflation caused by rising energy costs.
Reuters tried to spin the demos as protests against fossil fuels: ” Tens of thousands of protesters in six German cities gathered on Saturday to demand a more just distribution of government funds to deal with rising energy prices and living costs and a faster transition away from fossil fuels”.

Rud Istvan
October 23, 2022 5:37 pm

Best of luck with this. Some additional easily accessed evidence for your court case:

  1. Of all the CMIP6 models producing the false tropical troposphere hotspot your amici references, there is one other in CMIP6, INM CM5. It has an ECS of 1.8C. And it took care to parameterize tropical,ocean rainfall per ARGO. So NO tropical troposphere hotspot. So more ‘real’. See past posts on the problems with climate models.
  2. The EPA relied upon IPCC climate models predicted no summer Arctic Sea Ice by 2014. This past year, was 4.98 Wadhams.(1000 km *~5 more than he predicted from wrong models).
  3. Models said sea level rise would have by now accelerated. It hasn’t.
Dave Fair
Reply to  Rud Istvan
October 23, 2022 10:04 pm

We need more Amicus briefs by scientists pointing out those and more facts, Rud.

Bryan A
Reply to  Dave Fair
October 24, 2022 6:15 am

Just don’t use either math, logic or acronyms in the verbiage

October 23, 2022 7:37 pm

pLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, somewhere in a discussion of what “IPCC” (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) means, remind the Court that THIS IS THE UN (UNITED NATIONS), the epitome of un-democratic, unelected bureaucracy. Their “science” is little more than a pastiche of legitimacy for their ultimate goal of obtaining power and money. The contrived “crisis” requiring some form of a world governmental solution to solve it, under the auspices of the UN, of course, is NOT what anyone in the US (United States) should accept without definite and precise scientific proof of the problem and cost/benefits of the solution(s). The UN/IPPC provides neither, and neither do those “concensus” believers in the US government, such as the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) and elsewhere.

Dave Fair
Reply to  BobM
October 23, 2022 10:07 pm

IIRC, EPA endangerment findings have to focus on U.S. impacts (or something very similar for Federal impact studies in general).

October 23, 2022 8:09 pm

WOW, this is soooo naive!

October 23, 2022 8:58 pm

A science debate will fail because all science debates trying to refute CAGW since 1979 have failed.

The only strategy that has even a ghost of a chance to win in court is to redefine CAGW as AGW x3

Agree with AGW — it is based on science and there is general agreement that CO2 is a mild greenhouse gas above 400ppm

Attack the x3
The x3 is an unproven water vapor positive feedback theory that’s nothing more than a prediction, that has been wrong for over 50 years

Attack the wrong climate predictions and the government bureaucrat scientists who made them

Discredit the predictors, and there is a hope of refuting CAGW.
Do not attack AGW, or you will come across AS A SCIENCE DENIER.

Gary Pate
October 23, 2022 11:56 pm

Thank you for fighting #ClimateScientology

Ted1
October 24, 2022 2:22 am

The reason why they have so many “models” is that none of those models is sound.

If just one was sound they wouldn’t need two.

Yooper
Reply to  Ted1
October 24, 2022 5:42 am

Don’t the Russians have one, oh wait, that would be called RUSSIAN DISINFORMATION !

October 24, 2022 8:16 am

Scientific knowledge is determined by the scientific method, through which theoretical predictions are validated or rejected by observations. If the theoretical predictions do not work, the theory is rejected. That’s real science. 

nope. when observations and predictions dont match.. they never match

one has to decide.

  1. is the discrepancy outside prediction error
  2. is the observation wrong
  3. WHAT PART of the theory needs correction.

example in this case the observations needed to be adjusted( feynams word) for
the speed of light

jeffery p
October 24, 2022 8:30 am

What is the name of the EPA climate model? Does anybody have a reference/link to the before and after model runs that show no noticeable difference if the US implements this net-zero or carbon-free folly?

Kemaris
October 24, 2022 9:41 am

Procedurally, this is less significant than it might become. What the Court can do is issue a writ of mandamus requiring EPA to reconsider the endangerment finding. EPA can then just go through the motions and reaffirm the finding. The only thing that accomplishes is reopening the entire matter for notice and comments, leading to a potential lawsuit about “arbitrary and capricious” rulemaking in the reissued finding. The real hope has to be to keep this going until 2025 when we can hope to have adults at the White House and EPA administration again.