Teslabot source Youtube. Elon Musk by Steve Jurvetson - https://www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/18659265152/, CC BY 2.0, Link

“Civilisation is Going to Crumble”: Elon Musk Slams Overpopulation Narratives

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

Elon Musk, while discussing his Teslabot concept, suggested that people who claim the world is overpopulated are helping to cause the downfall of civilisation.

Elon Musk says there are ‘not enough people’ and that the falling birthrate could threaten human civilization

Huileng Tan,Taiyler Simone Mitchell
Tue, December 7, 2021, 5:06 PM

  • “If people don’t have more children, civilization is going to crumble, mark my words,” said Elon Musk.
  • Musk was responding to a question about how the Tesla Bot could solve some labor issues.
  • The global birthrate has been steadily declining since the 1960s, according to the World Bank.

Tesla CEO Elon Musk said there are “not enough people,” which could threaten human civilization.

“I think one of the biggest risks to civilization is the low birth rate and the rapidly declining birthrate,” said the father of six at the Wall Street Journal’s annual CEO Council.

“And yet, so many people, including smart people, think that there are too many people in the world and think that the population is growing out of control. It’s completely the opposite. Please look at the numbers — if people don’t have more children, civilization is going to crumble, mark my words,” he said.

Musk was responding to a question about how the Tesla Bot could solve some labor issues. The Tesla Bot is Musk’s planned “humanoid robot” that he says will be built using Tesla’s self-driving car artificial intelligence. The Bot, said Musk during a Tesla AI event in August, would be capable of deadlifting up to 150 pounds and traveling at around 5 m.p.h.

Read more: https://www.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-says-not-enough-070626755.html

Teslabot is a robot Elon Musk is developing to replace humans performing repetitive work.

Although Elon Musk didn’t explicitly mention greens, it seems pretty clear whom his comment was directed towards.

WUWT frequently covers prominent politicians and activists, like Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, when they call for global population to be restricted to save the world from climate change.

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Zig Zag Wanderer
December 7, 2021 6:06 pm

Musk recently said that all government subsidies for EVs should end.

Obviously that has nothing to do with the fact that Tesla EV subsidies have ended, yet others have not. Altruistic he is not.

I firmly believe that it would be best if we stabilised population at around 10 billion, as predicted. If populations decline slowly after that, it’ll probably be fine too. Then we can go about improving life for everyone on the planet, instead of trying to ‘save’ it. However, none of that will be my problem, I suspect.

Last edited 1 month ago by Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 7, 2021 6:19 pm

Mother Nature will take care of any population problems — just she has over the past 4.5 billion years.

Truthbknown
Reply to  John Shewchuk
December 7, 2021 8:02 pm

Its already been taken care of, everyone who got the Fauci/Gates death shots will be dead soon!

Izaak Walton
Reply to  Truthbknown
December 7, 2021 8:54 pm

how soon? So far they appear to be doing a great job of extending peoples lives. See
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/12/05/1059828993/data-vaccine-misinformation-trump-counties-covid-death-rate

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Izaak Walton
December 8, 2021 1:51 am

lets see how it goes when a challenge virus presents, ADE etc
thats what happened with all prior attempts with Mrna all seemed just fine until it wasnt

very old white guy
Reply to  ozspeaksup
December 8, 2021 7:10 am

That is why all the animal trials ended in failure.

Jon R
Reply to  Izaak Walton
December 8, 2021 9:29 am

NPR is not a source of authentic analysis. If you don’t hear their violent communist bias that’s on you.

Redge
Reply to  Truthbknown
December 7, 2021 11:22 pm

I’ve had 2 x AZ and 1 Pfizer booster.

No signs of me being dead yet, how much longer have I got?

What pees me off about people like you is wearing a mask or having a gloried flu jab, isn’t about you, it’s about helping to save the lives of the more vulnerable in society

I would have preferred herd immunity to kick in instead of shutting down economies and wearing masks, but it’s not about me.

MAL
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 12:44 am

Because you got the shot you may never be out of getting COVID. The shot may and it a big may keep you from every being immune of COVID if you did not have COVID before the shot. I hope that not true, but I would not bet, that the shot will do just that. The vaccine were not vaccines, they were a hail mary that very may work out to be the shots from hell. As you are your time may very well run out if you had the shot.

Redge
Reply to  MAL
December 8, 2021 1:01 am

Please don’t think I’m judging you because English does not appear to be your first language or perhaps it’s my misunderstanding

If I’m reading your comment correctly, you’re saying because I’ve had the COVID jabs, I may have to continue having COVID jabs for the rest of my life.

I see no evidence for this.

Could you point me towards the data, please (not some anti-vaccines website)?

COVID is just another type of flu, perhaps worse type of flu for the vulnerable.

How is this different from having a flu jab every year?

Stephen Skinner
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 1:46 am

Dr Gary M Vasey
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 1:53 am

The data is obvious to anyone who looks at the data and is being discussed daily by scientists and politicians so why are you so tone deaf? The vaccines immunity last about 90-days maximum and you are looking at 4 boosters a year in perpetuity to keep any semblance of immunity. There is also reasonable evidence that after 120-days, your immunity is less than that on a non-vaccinated person. There is also scientific papers published showing the mechansim for this issue that are also actively being discussed .. I think you are a narrative junkie and a bot. Nothing else could possibly explain your lack of any knowledge.

Redge
Reply to  Dr Gary M Vasey
December 8, 2021 6:44 am

I’m going to ask you to do the same thing, I ask of Griff and his ilk,

Post a link to the data

I’ve looked and can’t find it

Simon
Reply to  Dr Gary M Vasey
December 8, 2021 11:07 am

“Dr Gary.” Your comment is complete garbage. So what are you a doctor of Gary. BS?

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 1:55 am

the very short useful life of the super duper mrna appears to be as “average” as the flu shot ie hardly worth the bother but more risk factors inc for the option.
the “immunity” is little and the T might be slightly raised ,briefly but the other immune factors you get from getting the disease seem to be lesser the b cells etc

Lee L
Reply to  ozspeaksup
December 9, 2021 11:52 am

Ok so…you are lining up for a dose of the real delta variant all the sooner to be immune correct?

Stephen Skinner
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 1:57 am

Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 2:17 am

Compare the risks of a cov. and a flu vacc. lookiing at the side effects only.

Redge
Reply to  Krishna Gans
December 8, 2021 6:13 am

Exactly, Krishna, the side effects are the issue, not the jab itself

Unfortunately, as with every other drug or vaccine, some people will suffer side effects.

The worst side effect I’ve seen from my family, friends & colleagues is one of them developed flu symptoms that laid him up for a couple of days

Robert Hanson
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 7:56 am

As if one of the benefits of the Covid shot is that one won’t get the normal flu? Makes no sense at all.

Simon
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 11:13 am

The worst side effect I’ve seen from my family, friends & colleagues is one of them developed flu symptoms that laid him up for a couple of days”
Exactly. These crazy anti vaxers are full of “I know someone who knows someone”…. But I know no one directly who has suffered any ill affects and all my friends and family, are jabbed. These vaccines are safe and far more effective than not having them. You can still get sick, but your chances of ending up in hospital, or worse, are drastically reduced.

Derg
Reply to  Simon
December 8, 2021 1:44 pm

Good thing you are protected from Russia colluuuusion 😉

Why do you post your clown show here

Simon
Reply to  Derg
December 8, 2021 11:35 pm

Coz it’ fun to see your moronic responses.

Derg
Reply to  Simon
December 9, 2021 3:10 am

From you?

You really are a moron.

Reply to  Simon
December 8, 2021 3:14 pm

Anecdotes are useless. I even don’t know anybody ill from covid, so, following your Simple Simon crazy logic, covid doesn’t exist.
Hope you know you are a moron.

Simon
Reply to  Krishna Gans
December 8, 2021 11:36 pm

I know you are clueless. Does that make me or you a moron.

Ann Banisher
Reply to  Simon
December 8, 2021 4:10 pm

Funny, I was going to say the same about Covid. I know only a handful who have got it and none worse than the flu.
I do know of a close neighbor who died in his sleep 2 days after his 2nd jab and an aunt that had the same. Both families are big dems so they said it was just a coincidence.

Simon
Reply to  Ann Banisher
December 8, 2021 11:37 pm

Ummm…. old people die. I’d rather die in my sleep than do so gasping for breath in a room where no one can be near me.

Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 3:11 pm

Then you are a lucky man (?) and your social surrounding had better outcome than others.
Btw, the sideeffects are caused by the jabs, aren’t they ?

Ann Banisher
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 4:04 pm

The worst I’ve seen is one aunt died the night after getting her jab and one neighbor not waking up 2 days after his.
My sister, who has never had any physical issues, got an abnormal mammogram, abnormal pap smear, tested positive for HPV at 63 for the 1st time, had an abnormal heartbeat like it was beating out of her chest sporadically for a week, and thyroid tumor since getting her jab.
It’s like talking to people who play Russian Roulette when the pull the trigger and say, “well nothing happened to me”
Does not make me want to play.

Simon
Reply to  Ann Banisher
December 8, 2021 11:42 pm

Does seeing a covid patient gasping for breath, unable to get enough oxygen into their lungs, their face turning blue make you want to play?

Last edited 1 month ago by Simon
Sara
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 4:46 am

Yes, and remember, Redge, that the flu bugs shift annually, share their RNA with each other and a new flu bug is created every year, which is why an annual flu shot is a REALLY good idea for anyone who detests being sick.

Last edited 1 month ago by Sara
Redge
Reply to  Sara
December 8, 2021 6:14 am

And the vulnerable

TonyG
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 10:08 am

Redge,

I don’t recall where I read this (English source is all I recall) and I am very possibly getting the details wrong, but the gist of what I’ve read is this: There are N-type and S-type antibodies. S-type are specific to a given spike protein, N-type are more “generic”. A covid infection creates both, while the jab gives you only S-type. This means that a mutation in the spike protein (i.e. omicron) creates a new strain that you are not immune to, vs. natural immunity you would have from infection.

Note, I am only reporting what I’ve read. I haven’t looked into this enough to have any position on it at all.

I take exception with this:
Could you point me towards the data, please (not some anti-vaccines website)?

I would call that a preemptive ad-hominem. It’s no different than a warmist saying “not some denier website” (i.e. WUWT). Data is data.

Redge
Reply to  TonyG
December 8, 2021 10:13 am

I take exception with this:

Point taken

ATheoK
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 9:01 pm

Caution, therefore, is warranted regarding mandating COVID-19 mRNA vaccines, which initiate the synthesis of spike protein inside the human body and may replicate the toxic structures introduced into COVID-19, potentially becoming a causative factor in organ inflammation.

scientific abstract published on November 8, 2021 concludes that the mRNA vaccines: “dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following vaccination.”

Finally, it may be purely coincidental that Moderna, a biotechnology company that produces a COVID-19 mRNA vaccine, holds a patent (US 10,501,513 B2), filed on February 7, 2017, describing “protein cleavage” sites and including a complementary genetic sequence matching that for the furin polybasic cleavage site found in COVID-19.”

There is talk in medical circles that the effects and illnesses caused by the vaccines appear to be “prion” illnesses.

The vaccines contain specific genetic fragments to stimulate immunity.
Which does not prohibit their interacting with other genetics, e.g. viruses and human cellular structures throughout the body.

Simon
Reply to  ATheoK
December 8, 2021 11:45 pm

There is talk in medical circles that the effects and illnesses caused by the vaccines appear to be “prion” illnesses.”
There is talk that the vaccines make you grow an extra head…. Except the talk is in the junk websites….

George T
Reply to  Redge
December 9, 2021 4:05 am

Whether one submits to the gene therapy jab is an individual choice. I would shy away from it. The risks out weigh the benefits. I’ll stay the course with ivermectin and the other supplements suggested. As some have suggested, the gene therapy jab is about as effective as the annual flu vaccine. Repeated boosters is a farce. Get it and treat it with ivermectin and move on. That’s what I intend to do. However, I have been on prophylactic ivermectin for several months and so far, so good. The data out of Africa and India is compelling. Plus the anecdotal stories are suggestive, too.

Sara
Reply to  MAL
December 8, 2021 4:42 am

Really, MAL, you could stop reading that hysterical twaddle you found online and understand that if it weren’t for a polio vaccine you might not be here today. If it weren’t for a small pox jab (and I have two of them, thank you, Navy), that nasty bug would still be everywhere.

Are you even vaguely aware that if an adult contracts measles it is usually fatal???? It’s the reason pediatrics medicine says get your kids vaxxed against measles.

Would you rather see people dying of another epidemic of the Spanish H1N1 flu from 1918????? I’ll bet money you don’t even get a flu shot in the fall, do you, sport?

Take a chill pill and stop reading the hysterical twaddle that is posted for the sole purpose of upsetting you.

Last edited 1 month ago by Sara
Derg
Reply to  Sara
December 8, 2021 1:46 pm

Calm down Sara. The polio vaccine is a vaccine.

Drake
Reply to  Derg
December 8, 2021 6:59 pm

And the MRNA therapy is not.

Derg
Reply to  Drake
December 8, 2021 7:37 pm

Exactly

Dr Gary M Vasey
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 1:50 am

You wont get any herd immunity by vaccinating everyone. Quite the opposite. And please explain how me vaccinating helps you? The entire purpose of vaccination is to protect you. If it doesnt do that why the hell should I? Its like asking me to wear a condom so you don’t get someone pregnant. Moronic.

Redge
Reply to  Dr Gary M Vasey
December 8, 2021 6:47 am

You wont get any herd immunity by vaccinating everyone.

I agree and as I stated originally herd immunity was the way to go

Moronic.

Name-calling?

Seriously?

We rightly castigate the greens for labelling us as “deniers” to denigrate those who disagree with them, but still resort to their favoured tactic

Last edited 1 month ago by Redge
Eyes Wide Open
Reply to  Dr Gary M Vasey
December 8, 2021 10:02 am

You’re a doctor? Certainly wouldn’t appear to be of medicine . . .

HotScot
Reply to  Eyes Wide Open
December 8, 2021 11:38 am

He clearly knows an awful lot more than you do about the subject.

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
December 8, 2021 11:46 pm

No, you are just easily fooled….

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
December 9, 2021 4:30 pm

Are you a Doctor then?

Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 2:14 am

Read that to know more about the reasons for several side effects caused by wrong application of IM vaccination.

https://joannenova.com.au/2021/12/myocarditis-clots-may-be-caused-by-sloppy-injections-straight-into-a-vein/

Izaak may read it too and reflect about his answer.

bonbon
Reply to  Krishna Gans
December 8, 2021 2:49 am

And when we see cheap labor, untrained seasonal workers doing sloppy shots one can see the deadly effects of outsourcing.
For a health service to ramp up with properly trained workers seems expensive until one checks the cost of lockdowns.
The new finance minister seems a real bean counter, and the previous health minister was finance deputy – no surprise he did not react in time.

HotScot
Reply to  bonbon
December 8, 2021 11:36 am

Absolute bollox. My wife was the head of a University dept. which trained Nurses to degree level. No one can give any type of jab until they are fully trained in the process.

Not one RGN is considered competent until they are signed off. Even if they come in from overseas, they still must train under UK conditions.

And when you talk of outsourcing, I take it you mean GP’s and Consultants who are not employed by the NHS?

Streetcred
Reply to  HotScot
December 8, 2021 2:07 pm

I don’t know so much, mate. Here in Australia, pharmacists can administer the injection.
IRO degree qualified nurses giving injections, I’ve had some horrible experiences with exactly those people turning me into a pin cushion !

HotScot
Reply to  Streetcred
December 9, 2021 4:32 pm

No idea about Aus mate. Judging by the Totalitarian state it’s turning into you’ll have monkeys giving out jabs next.

Redge
Reply to  Krishna Gans
December 8, 2021 6:15 am

I’m not questioning the side effects, all drugs have side effects

The article was about sloppy work

Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 6:48 am

A sloppy work causing more side effects, if you understand the linked article.

Derg
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 2:41 am

Society has a shot…they don’t need saving.

Stephen Skinner
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 3:03 am
Redge
Reply to  Stephen Skinner
December 8, 2021 6:32 am

Do you have a link to the original source of that graph?

I’ve searched but can’t find it and think it may be a little economical with the truth.

Stephen Skinner
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 8:11 am

Thats the only link I have I’m afraid. There is another YouTuber that takes apart ONS data (https://rumble.com/user/PoliticoYT), so I’m guessing the ONS is the source.

Redge
Reply to  Stephen Skinner
December 8, 2021 8:47 am

Sorry Stephen but I would like to verify the veracity of the claim by the dailysceptic for myself.

They claim the data is from the UKHSA but there are no links to the UKHSA report, so for the moment, I simply don’t believe it

I’m willing to be persuaded

If we expect Griff etc to show the original source of their claims we should expect our side to do the same thing

Not only that but we should call out people for spreading disinformation regardless of which side of the debate they are on.

Stephen Skinner
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 9:11 am

Fair point. I will dig further.

Ozonebust
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 9:50 am

Try UKHSA site, they are one of the few institutions keeping clean data.
Check the dailysceptic.org website there is usually a link on one of the articles.

Also check the US VAERS data for injury and deaths.

Another site dailyexpose.org has interesting information.

Like any controversial information keep your mind open and satisfy yourself that it can be substantiated.

If you are on this site you are a sceptic, after 40 years of data about climate. With your own and families life you don’t have 40 years to get clarity.

So as they say, err on the side of caution, and from the wide area on the vaccines that I have read there is real reason for concern.

The biggest red flag was the FDA applying and succeding In getting the pfizer pre launch test data impounded to 2076.
They have impounded the data that supposedly proves the vaccines are safe. Like the Mann hockey stick data.

Redge
Reply to  Ozonebust
December 8, 2021 10:00 am

Yeah, I’ve checked the UKHSA and D.J. Hawkins sent a link

The dailysceptic website didn’t have a link which made me sceptical of the claim

IMHO, we need to hold ourselves to the same high standards we demand on the idiots scaring the children with the AGW claims.

Anthony and the other authors on this site do a good job of this.

The rest of us need to check our links before posting if we are to hold the likes of Izaak, Gualfrunt etc to our high standards

And having said all that, Stephen could well be correct and I could be wrong to doubt him.

We shall see

HotScot
Reply to  Stephen Skinner
December 8, 2021 11:29 am

ONS data is for long term trends, not short term analysis. It’s next to useless to determine anything under five years at least.

D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 9:16 am

You didn’t look very hard. The link was in the first sentence! But since you need to be spoon fed:

COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report – week 48 (publishing.service.gov.uk)

Redge
Reply to  D. J. Hawkins
December 8, 2021 9:47 am

You may have joined in mid-conversation and I may be misunderstanding

Stephen posted this link and referred to the graph shown at the top of the following image.

I think this image is misleading.

You posted a link to the UK Gov report (thank you)

On page 34 it contains the image at the bottom.

Genuine question: what am I missing here?

Untitled.png
D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  Redge
December 9, 2021 11:58 am

Redge:

Genuine question: what am I missing here?

The graph in the Daily Sceptic post is taken from the numbers in the table you pasted. The figure in the actual UKHSA report is “deaths”, the Daily Sceptic used the UKHSA numbers to graph “case rate“. And as I said before, the link to that report is in the very first sentence of the Daily Sceptic post, below the italicized intro.

Last edited 1 month ago by D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 3:20 pm

Can’t you read the article linked ?

We’re republishing a post this morning by the German Substacker who calls himself ‘Eugyppius’. Looks like he’s been kicked off Twitter – shock! You can subscribe to his Substack email newsletter here.
Not much has changed in the UKHSA Week 48 Covid vaccine surveillance report. Cases by vaccination status:

I just cpied the first lines of it including the asked link.

Last edited 1 month ago by Krishna Gans
Redge
Reply to  Krishna Gans
December 8, 2021 11:11 pm

Krishna,

I read the article on DailySceptic.

I compared the claims by DailySceptic against the official figures shown in the link you gave.

I posted the table presented by DailySceptic and the official Table 11

To me, it looks like DailySceptic got the figures arse about tit

I can accept I am misreading this, so please could you or anyone explain what I’m doing wrong?

TIA

Eyes Wide Open
Reply to  Stephen Skinner
December 8, 2021 10:05 am

The last graph is garbage as it isn’t based on unit population . . .

Gerald the Mole
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 3:51 am

Lucky you. I had a bad reaction to my second AZ jab, complete loss of mental and physical energy. I am discussing with my GP what I should do next.

Stephen Skinner
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 3:52 am

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Stephen Skinner
December 8, 2021 4:13 am

This is very much worth a watch. Normally I don’t bother with utube, and I think this guy is a bit of a twat anyway, but he’s damned effective and on point in this rant.

Stephen Skinner
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 8, 2021 5:56 am

It is interesting the number of well known individuals that start out firmly on the left and then start to grow up as they come into contact with the real world. He is now another one.

Richard Page
Reply to  Stephen Skinner
December 8, 2021 6:53 am

No, he isn’t, despite getting on message this once.

Richard Page
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 8, 2021 6:52 am

He’s on point but the message is somewhat diluted by his call for radical revolution. He’s a classic example of a champagne socialist – pretending to be one of the common people, despite his wealth and celebrity lifestyle. If he was an honest, decent person rather than a self-promoting idiot posing as a modern-day Wolfie Smith, I might actually have a little bit of respect for him.

Streetcred
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 8, 2021 2:10 pm

You’re right about one thing, that bloke is a twat. Never liked his sanctimonious rants.

Bumbum
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 6:06 am

I hate to tell you that it’s never about you, it’s never about me. It’s always about people, who think that such drastic measures are justified to fight the disease with over 99% of survival rates. People, who don’t hesitate to force a vaccine with unknown long term side effects on children who survive this disease at the rate of 99.97 to 100%.

Redge
Reply to  Bumbum
December 8, 2021 6:33 am

And this is exactly the reason I would have preferred for nature to take its course whilst protecting the vulnerable

Last edited 1 month ago by Redge
very old white guy
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 7:13 am

Estimates are two to five years. The amount of time that should have elapsed during testing. You and everyone that took the shots are the lab rats. Two to five years. I am beyond my best before date and will never be a lab rat.

HotScot
Reply to  Redge
December 8, 2021 7:39 am

Kindly advise how me getting the clotshot influences anyone else’s risk of getting covid.

I have no influence whatsoever over your life. You, or I, can circulate in any environment we want and neither of us can stop each other.

Medical ethics dictate you take care of your own health. You wouldn’t go to the doctor to ask for an anti parasitic drug to protect other people, you get it to cure and protect yourself.

Why do you think the instructions on aircraft are to put on your own oxygen mask in the event of an incident, before anyone else, even children? Because YOU are the priority.

Take care of yourself. Don’t worry about me, I can take care of myself.

Not going any further with this as it’s not the place.

Black JEM
Reply to  Redge
December 9, 2021 11:08 am

I’m sorry – just drop masks and 6 ft social distancing – they have no bearing on case spread – they just don’t. I’ve worked extensively in industrial safety settings – there is a reason OSHA does not consider masks PPE.

As to the vax, we learn more every day. More prominent medical authorities are providing measured suggestions on modifying the vaccination protocols.

I am aware of heart inflammation concerns and suppressed immune system questions as side effects of the vaccine. Likely we need more research to better understand these things. Clearly the risk for some people to get the shot is significantly higher than being exposed to and catching COVID. And we know vaccinated people can and do pass the virus – so it’s not going to save people from spreading. It’s probably best looked at as a therapeutic, similar to the flu shot.

Contrarians would argue that anything that slows down the mutation cycle of the virus in the healthy population actually prolongs the exposure of the less healthy population to more virulent strains of the virus, therefore a legitimate scientific argument can be made that vaccinating healthy not at risk populations increases the risk to the unhealthy. We all know by now this vaccine has killed more people than all other vaccines combined in the modern era. So perhaps a little more nuance and less you MUST get the jab would be helpful.

Sara
Reply to  Truthbknown
December 8, 2021 4:37 am

Hey, I’m still here, if you must know! I plan on being here for quite a while, kiddo. In fact, I will prolly outlive you, Tootsie!!!

Simon
Reply to  Truthbknown
December 8, 2021 11:02 am

Idiot.

Derg
Reply to  Simon
December 8, 2021 1:50 pm

Pot calling the kettle black

Simon
Reply to  Derg
December 8, 2021 11:50 pm

So you think he is right? All the vaccinated will be dead soon? Let’s have a bet shall we? I bet you any money you like I will be here …. to collect any amount you want to bet.

Derg
Reply to  Simon
December 9, 2021 3:11 am

You are an idiot too…see how you still believe Russia colluuuusion was real

Reply to  Simon
December 8, 2021 3:26 pm

You know what a mirror is ? 😀

Simon
Reply to  Krishna Gans
December 8, 2021 11:51 pm

I do. And I think saying all the vaccinated will die is a comment worthy of highlighting as olympic level stupid. Do you not?

Peta of Newark
Reply to  John Shewchuk
December 8, 2021 1:53 am

She has the job well in-hand.

We are being systematically and ruthlesly poisoned by sugar.

Surely Shirley, anyone can see her point. We have cut slashed burned grazed overgrazed ploughed tilled and cultivated 1/3rd of Earth’s land surface to the extent it is permanent irrecoverable desert
While another 1/3rd is under permanent ice, we set about destroying the remaining 1/3rd

Meanwhile we have hounded chased killed and eaten all the ‘nice critters’ to the extent that only horrible poisonous and angry critters are left = critters more capable of catching and eating us than we are of them.
That includes the bacteria as we’re now finding out not least via C19 but also anti-biotic resistance in general
(Doesn’t that give any sort of clue to anybody about ‘humans in general’?)

Ma Nature has thus said ‘Enough‘ ‘Here you are kiddies, let me introduce Sugar. Enjoy
And via our own inbuilt reward system (wonder who put that there and why) we do actually enjoy having every aspect of our mortal coils destroyed: minds, bodies and souls. We think that being poisoned is great, good, natural and normal.

While convincing ourselves that a $10Billion per day medical spend is a sure sign of Good Health and Longevity

Also when the annual crop yields of sugar rise, The Cry goes up
Oh yippee, Things Have Never Been Better

Does it not occur to anyone yet, we have actually ‘bought that bridge

edit to PS
The Girls know and is why they’re winding down baby-production.
It’s what they refer to as ‘Unreasonable Behaviour’, usually as they sit in lawyer’s offices.

Last edited 1 month ago by Peta of Newark
Stephen Skinner
Reply to  Peta of Newark
December 8, 2021 2:59 am

Please point out the desert that has been created by over cultivation. The only arid area I can think of is Mesopotamia, but that turned to Arid when the temperature dropped after the Holocene Climate Optimum.
Eaten all the ‘nice critters’? There’s the Moah, the Mammoth and Giant Sloth and some other notable animals, but many others are still around. Of course there is the Chinese appetite for Tiger, Rhino horn and Shark fins, but that just needs a concerted effort to get them to stop trying to get these and other animals. The Chinese have been sending out large fishing fleets to scour fish from places like the Galapagos and fortunately sovereign nations have fought back.
The bacteria are the same bacteria as before except because of overuse of anti-biotics some have adapted to get round them. Speaking to a dentist, they had to catch up after the disruption caused by all the restrictions put in place to ‘fight’ SARS-CoV-2. Many patients had to have teeth removed because they should have been treated earlier. In addition they were administering double doses of anti-biotics, which just makes the situation worse. This is not difficult to solve if we abandon the idea that no one must die and everyone must be safe.
Do you like spending time out in the wild somewhere and reconnecting with the natural world? Doesn’t that work for you as ‘medicine’?

Robert Hanson
Reply to  Peta of Newark
December 8, 2021 8:11 am

I do limit my intake of sugar, but still:

Ma Nature has thus said ‘Enough‘”

Seriously, Ma Nature? Or do you just not know how to spell Gaia?

And has “said” enough? There are drugs that will calm down those voices in your head. Hopefully before they start ordering you to kill people.

Stephen Skinner
Reply to  Robert Hanson
December 8, 2021 9:54 am

What!!?

meab
Reply to  Peta of Newark
December 8, 2021 11:07 am

You’re full of it, Peta. 37.6% of land is devoted to agriculture but (depending on the source) as much as 60 to 70% of that is grazing land, land that has only been minimally disturbed from the natural state as much of that land hosted grazing animals before human agriculture. See bison in North America, for example. Only 11 to 15% of land has been plowed for agriculture, and almost none of that is desert. You can’t grow crops in a desert without irrigation and most deserts have very little water that can be used for irrigation.

The birth rate correlates negatively with wealth, the percentage of women in the workforce, and with the availability of birth control, not percentage of refined sugar in the diet. It is necessary to eat fruit for health – see scurvy, for example, you nutter limey (guess where the term limey came from), and fruit has natural sugars.

very old white guy
Reply to  John Shewchuk
December 8, 2021 7:09 am

Hadn’t read your post when i did mine. I agree.

Reply to  very old white guy
December 8, 2021 7:21 am

This is all just more alarmism — just like climate change. Worse yet is when they change the data to fit the theory … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs-K_tadveI

Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 7, 2021 9:19 pm

“. Then we can go about improving life for everyone on the planet, instead of trying to ‘save’ i”
Actually, more population means more people solving the world’s problems, so a declining population may slow progress.
One very telling thing is the large number of eco nuts that believe the population is carreening out control SIXTY YEARS after the birth rate started dropping.

Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 7, 2021 9:26 pm

Demographers have predicted a leveling of the population at between and nine and ten billion based on demographic trends. The intermediate problem is an aging population.

Bumbum
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 8, 2021 5:42 am

Are you, just as firmly, agree to be “stabilized” out of existence if you will be counted as “over the limit “? How about your children? How do you propose humanity should do the “limiting”? The good old death camp? Do you think of yourself as potential “controller” of the population? Do you have any examples of successful “stabilization” from history?

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Bumbum
December 8, 2021 1:38 pm

Are you, just as firmly, agree to be “stabilized” out of existence if you will be counted as “over the limit “? How about your children? How do you propose humanity should do the “limiting”? The good old death camp? Do you think of yourself as potential “controller” of the population? Do you have any examples of successful “stabilization” from history?

Projection, much?

I said nothing at all about any coercion.

HotScot
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 8, 2021 7:25 am

The UN predict population will level off at around 9bn before beginning to decline thanks to developing nations prospering.

Over population is not a problem. No one has ever calculated the optimum population of the world, it’s all just fanciful guesswork.

At every stage in human development people have been bleating about overpopulation, it’s never appeared, why should it now?

We are throwing away 25% of food products at source. How can anyone imagine we can’t feed the world?

Energy is a game political too. There’s more energy out there than we know what to do with, it’s politicians, once again, that are causing problems.

We have had 200 years of opportunity to improve our lot, sadly however, governments have been too interested in the military/industrial policy of making money from generating wars to get international money to rebuild, and profit from war.

The solution, it appears, might lie in getting rid of central governments, or at least severely curtailing their power. Have them stick to their original remit, to provide defence for the nation, not offence.

Internally, Law and order can be taken care of regionally where the community has access to the law makers to demand something be done about local crime phenomenons. Do we really need organisations like the FBI? Other than as a coordination facility between local forces, I somehow doubt it assuming we use the technology at our disposal to aid communication between regional forces.

Policing in the UK is drastically different between London and Edinburgh, only 500 miles apart, yet laws are applied along national lines, which favour London because of its wealth and political influence. God knows what it’s like in America.

Sorry, off on one………

MarkW
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 8, 2021 9:32 am

And the anti-vaxxers have hijacked yet another thread that has nothing to do with vaccinations.

HotScot
Reply to  MarkW
December 8, 2021 11:43 am

Thanks for your impartiality.

Derg
Reply to  MarkW
December 8, 2021 1:52 pm

Is an anti vaxxer like a climate denier 🤔

Reply to  MarkW
December 8, 2021 3:28 pm

Today it’s part of the overpopulation question, imagine 😀

Black JEM
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 9, 2021 10:42 am

I don’t think we are going to make that 10B number. The estimates are based upon a stabilizing birth rate similar to where we are right now, and there is little reason to expect that to occur. As countries mature, birth rates go down. We will be below population replacement rate sooner than anyone thinks. In the last 30 years the population increase rate has fallen 76 basis points – down to 1.05%. Projections to exceed 9 billion by 2050 forecast a dramatic increase in fertility rates, despite the fact it has been falling continuously since the 1950’s in the table I reviewed. By the end of this century global population will be falling. And in the industrialized western welfare states many countries are already under rates of replacement. The entire global economic and political spectrum is based upon growing human populations. This is about to end. The fallout will be dramatic.

Black JEM
Reply to  Black JEM
December 9, 2021 10:49 am

I should have been more clear – they presume that population growth rates will fall – but they assume they will keep being positive by assuming significant increases in fertility rates. If you consider historical trends, there is no justification for the forecasted increase in fertility rates. So if they continue falling, there is no way to make 10B – and in fact you probably won’t get beyond 8-8.5B. And then it will start falling, slowly at first, but then rapidly. Of course, the world leaders could decide to change rules to promote childbirth, and reduce the cost of raising kids – as a few do today with limited effectiveness. But that will require a significant change in mindset.

But hey, at least our descendants will be able to buy land cheap!!

Mike Lowe
December 7, 2021 6:06 pm

One of the few comments from Musk with which I agree!

Pamela Matlack-Klein
Reply to  Mike Lowe
December 8, 2021 2:53 am

Yeah, he finally said something that really does make sense,

Joao Martins
Reply to  Mike Lowe
December 8, 2021 10:29 am

Most certainly it was a lapsus linguae.

alexei
December 7, 2021 6:14 pm

Birth rates are only declining in the developed world and even there, most of any growth in birth rates is found in immigrant, mainly muslim communities. What HAS been “growing out of control” is immigration into many western countries putting tremendous strain on existing social infrastructure. What would be Mr Musk’s solution to that?

MarkW
Reply to  alexei
December 7, 2021 6:17 pm

Birth rates have declined dramatically everywhere, not just the developed world.

guest
Reply to  MarkW
December 7, 2021 7:30 pm

Birth rates in sub-Saharan Africa are declining in relative terms but are still very high.

MarkW
Reply to  guest
December 7, 2021 7:54 pm

They are larger than the rest of the world, but over a small populations.
If the birth rate for the Earth has a whole has not dropped replacement level, it will within the next couple of years.

Last edited 1 month ago by MarkW
Truthbknown
Reply to  MarkW
December 7, 2021 8:05 pm

You guys do not think this is all by design? Making a population gay or transgendered, sterile with phony “vaccines” or genetic and social engineering? It is!!

Redge
Reply to  Truthbknown
December 7, 2021 11:24 pm

Good grief

MarkW
Reply to  Truthbknown
December 8, 2021 9:33 am

Is there a ray that turns people gay? Or perhaps it’s the flouride in the water?

alastair gray
Reply to  MarkW
December 7, 2021 8:21 pm

What about Afghanistan from 8 million to 30 odd million over the NATO occupation period fuelled by unsustainable aid

ozspeaksup
Reply to  alastair gray
December 8, 2021 1:57 am

and will crash with horrendous suffering fairly soon

bonbon
Reply to  ozspeaksup
December 8, 2021 2:52 am

Caused by sanctions, withholding billions of dollars. After 40 years of war. This is geno*cide on TV.

MarkW
Reply to  alastair gray
December 8, 2021 9:35 am

If it’s true that Aghanistan’s population nearly quadrupled in 30 years, then it wasn’t from the birth rate. So what’s your point?

Chris Hanley
Reply to  alexei
December 7, 2021 7:28 pm

The world fertility rate is declining with currently 2.5 live births per woman and is projected to fall below replacement around 2060.
(click on ‘total fertility’).

Last edited 1 month ago by Chris Hanley
Chris Hanley
Reply to  alexei
December 7, 2021 7:40 pm
gbaikie
Reply to  alexei
December 7, 2021 8:06 pm

Mars could be needing a lot of immigration.
The problem with US immigration is the illegal immigration which controlled by criminal
Cartels. US needs and wants legal immigration, US needs to control the border and not allow
criminal organizations to control our border- which also bringing dangerous illegal drugs which kill tens of thousands of Americans each year.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  gbaikie
December 7, 2021 8:55 pm

… which also bringing dangerous illegal drugs which kill tens of thousands of Americans each year.

You don’t see that as self-selection for posthumous Darwin awards?

gbaikie
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
December 8, 2021 12:27 am

I see it, as China pumping fentanyl into US.
And criminal cartel that controls Mexico and also has control in US.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  gbaikie
December 8, 2021 8:58 am

Without demand, those supply operations would dry up immediately!

It is much like natural resource companies being blamed for climate change when it is the public demand that has culpability for any potential climate impact.

gbaikie
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
December 8, 2021 10:21 am

I am quite optimistic, but all politicians are depressing evil and stupid.
If CO2 was outlawed, the black market which provided heat and electrical power would give inferior and dangerous products and people would be poisoned.

Big phama might be difficult to sue, but they could be sued.

MarkW
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
December 8, 2021 9:36 am

The problem is that they cause a lot of damage to others on their way out.

TonyG
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
December 8, 2021 10:26 am

Aren’t most Darwin awards posthumous?

MarkW
Reply to  TonyG
December 8, 2021 1:55 pm

The award is for those who have removed themselves from the gene pool. So either dead, or somehow eliminated their ability to breed.

TonyG
Reply to  MarkW
December 8, 2021 2:15 pm

Thus “most” 🙂

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  TonyG
December 9, 2021 12:18 pm

They do seem to be, but as MarkW points out, they are not exclusively. Therefore, as long as there are any Darwin awards other than posthumously, “posthumous” is not redundant, if that is what you were implying.

TonyG
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
December 9, 2021 4:57 pm

No, just saying literally what I stated – “most” are posthumous. I remember when they were actually awarding them (before people got offended and shut them down) announcing the first non-posthumous award.

It was meant as a bit of a joke, really. Apparently it didn’t go over well.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  gbaikie
December 8, 2021 1:58 am

have a chat to the cia re the drugs running maybe? not much secret to their blackops slush fund sources since the 60s onwards

MarkW
Reply to  ozspeaksup
December 8, 2021 9:36 am

You really believe anything as long as the US is painted as the bad guy.

gbaikie
Reply to  ozspeaksup
December 8, 2021 10:33 am

The CIA has always been corrupted, but obviously they have managed to get as corrupt as is humanly possible.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  gbaikie
December 9, 2021 12:19 pm

And your evidence for those claims?

gbaikie
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
December 9, 2021 1:07 pm

The main problem with all government is corruption.
I don’t think this requires me to provide proof.
So, question is how much corruption does US government
have, and compared to the rest of US, how does CIA compare,
is more or less corrupt than average corruption of US government.
The reason I mentioned that CIA has always been corrupt, is
I am really saying more corrupt than average US government corruption. Or not worth saying if CIA average corruption or
less corrupt than average US federal governmental corruption.

Now, one could compare FBI corruption to CIA, which is more corrupt. And is there any evidence of **VAST** FBI corruption, lately?
And to a way to answer your question. Is FBI corrupt, and which is more corrupt, FBI or CIA.
I say, CIA.
You say, FBI?
Or you say FBI is less corrupt compare normal US federal corruption- and doing a great job?
I say CIA caused the FBI to be more corrupt- but CIA was not
only factor, but it helped a lot to push the FBI into being a criminal and unaccountable federal dept.

gbaikie
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
December 9, 2021 2:33 pm

If your question was do have personal {or unique} information
The answer I don’t have this, but I would also say it would be unreliable if I did. And I am not CIA agent {though a CIA would
would not say they were or were not agent:)}. Not agent, and don’t have any particularly significant personal gained first hand or second hand information, regarding CIA or any intel agency or any insider information regarding any kind of governmental activity.
What I know is what is public knowledge.
Nor do claim to be some kind expert on such public knowledge.

What it is related to this is, that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts, absolutely.
And the general truth, that accountability, is best tool against corruption.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  gbaikie
December 9, 2021 9:21 pm

The bottom line is that after more than 300 words, you have no evidence for the claimed corruption. You only have your opinion.

gbaikie
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
December 10, 2021 2:56 pm

Well. if mentioned the Steele dossier, you might not even know anything about it. I will just quote wiki:“The Steele dossier, also known as the Trump–Russia dossier, is a political opposition research report written from June to December 2016 containing allegations of misconduct, conspiracy, and cooperation between Donald Trump’s presidential campaign and the government of Russia prior to and during the 2016 election campaign. NPR has described the controversial opposition research as an “explosive dossier of unsubstantiated and salacious material about President Trump’s alleged ties with Russia”
And I am guessing you could imagine a “former spy” actually means something like, not really a spy.
{not claiming wiki is a good source, but moderate/mainstream it does ok at.]

Derg
Reply to  alexei
December 8, 2021 2:45 am

Give developing nations real economic security through fossil fuels…it’s that simple.

Tom Halla
December 7, 2021 6:19 pm

Paul Ehrlich and his acolytes are evil, period. Malthus never had the experience of improving agricultural technology, so he can be excused. Ehrlich still seems fixated on his original theme, and has never apologized for any of his racist, genocidal proposals in the late 1960’s.

guest
Reply to  Tom Halla
December 8, 2021 8:33 am

Malthus was postponed by scientific advancements and the opening of vast food production lands in Australia and the Americas which was a “one off” event. And both were done by White men which are now in relative and absolute decline in the world. Do you think China has the capability to pick up the torch? Would they help others even if they could?

MarkW
Reply to  guest
December 8, 2021 9:37 am

Mods, do we really need this kind of racist drivel here?

Simon
Reply to  MarkW
December 9, 2021 1:02 am

OK, it’s offical. The world has gone topsy turvy…. I agree with Mark.

H.R.
December 7, 2021 6:20 pm

“The Tesla Bot is Musk’s planned “humanoid robot” that he says will be built using Tesla’s self-driving car artificial intelligence.”



Given the bugs in the self-driving car AI, I’m a little leery of a bunch of robots running amok because the clock struck one, or something equally silly and unforeseen.

lee
Reply to  H.R.
December 7, 2021 6:31 pm

“the clock struck one” the others suffered severe trauma. 😉

H.R.
Reply to  H.R.
December 7, 2021 6:34 pm

P.S.
“the clock struck one” came from something we sang as kids.

♯♪♫Hickory dickory dock.
Three mice ran up the clock.
The clock struck one,
the rest escaped
with minor injuries. ♪♫

You can blame my brother for that one. 😜

Oldseadog
Reply to  H.R.
December 8, 2021 3:57 am

Hickory dickory dock,
The mouse ran up the clock,
The clock struck one,
And the mouse got all mangled up in the clanking machinery.

From a Canadian Radio Officer I once sailed with.

mcswell
Reply to  H.R.
December 7, 2021 6:39 pm

What you have to worry about is when the clock strikes thirteen.

TonyG
Reply to  mcswell
December 8, 2021 10:27 am

not a military clock. 25, though…

H.R.
Reply to  TonyG
December 8, 2021 10:47 am

Strike the first one and word gets around. 😜

Willem Post
Reply to  H.R.
December 7, 2021 6:50 pm

Could a bot, out of the blue, catch fire, while doing the dishes, or preparing a meal?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Willem Post
December 7, 2021 8:57 pm

It could only catch fire if programmed to do so using one hand.

H.R.
Reply to  Willem Post
December 7, 2021 9:01 pm

If it’s holding a banana, Willem, presto! Bananas flambé!

Musk will claim flaming robots are a feature, not a bug. 😜

Aidan
Reply to  Willem Post
December 7, 2021 10:26 pm

Assuming they are powered by those unquenchable Lithium Batteries ? I would say definitely they can catch fire. Putting them out, not so easy.
Then there is the probability of the AI going wonky , don’t let them change or feed the baby !

Last edited 1 month ago by Aidan
John Endicott
Reply to  Aidan
December 8, 2021 3:20 am

And best not hang a towel off the side of the crib, the bot won’t recognize the crib anymore and run into it at full speed!

Richard Page
Reply to  Aidan
December 8, 2021 7:05 am

Not the most dangerous use of Lithium ion batteries I’ve ever heard of – the Japanese navy has 2 subs that run entirely on them, and are planning many more. Trapped in a tin can underwater with batteries that could burst into flame at the drop of a hat.

Robert Hanson
Reply to  Aidan
December 8, 2021 8:28 am

And absolutely don’t feed them after midnight. 😉

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Willem Post
December 8, 2021 1:59 am

possibly but your samsung washing machine was doing the same

guest
Reply to  H.R.
December 7, 2021 7:56 pm

The inaugural presentation of the Teslabot featured an actor in a costume. The guy is a shyster.

H.R.
Reply to  guest
December 7, 2021 9:17 pm

But he’s a brilliant shyster. Shysters like Musk don’t come along every day. Top notch.

Actually, I just think he’s the poster child for A.D.D.

“Let’s build electric cars!”
“Let’s go to Mars!”
“Let’s build a hyperloop!”
“Let’s make robots!”

… and I’ve missed a few, I’m sure.

Shoki Kaneda
Reply to  H.R.
December 7, 2021 9:48 pm

Don’t forget the flamethrowers, a high point.

Redge
Reply to  H.R.
December 7, 2021 11:26 pm

Don’t forget “buy, sell, buy sell Tesla and Bitcoin (I’ll make a lot of money by telling you guys this nonsense)”.

Pamela Matlack-Klein
Reply to  H.R.
December 8, 2021 2:58 am

He does seem to have trouble concentrating on a single project.

Robert Hanson
Reply to  Pamela Matlack-Klein
December 8, 2021 8:31 am

aka the Leonardo Da Vince syndrome

TonyG
Reply to  H.R.
December 8, 2021 10:28 am

Let’s build an internet satellite network!

— posted via Starlink.

PaulH
Reply to  H.R.
December 8, 2021 6:11 am

I wonder if the Elon Bots will suffer the same fate as the delivery robots when the weather gets iffy. 🙂

Kevin Stall
December 7, 2021 6:33 pm

What needs to be done is get rid of the large cities. Brake them down to smaller size. Get rid of all the asphalt and spread them out. No

Reply to  Kevin Stall
December 7, 2021 9:27 pm

“Get rid of all the asphalt and spread them out. No”
WHY?

Look at real data and recognize the fact that the “climate crisis” is the biggest scam in human history!

Here are some true climate facts:
•   There has been less than one degree of warming from 1850 to 2012
•   There is no evidence that hurricanes have increased
•   There is no evidence that storms have increased
•   There is no evidence that sea level rise has increased
•   There is no evidence that floods have increased
•   There is no evidence that droughts have increased
•   Man emits 6% of CO2 emissions, nature 94%
•   CO2 causes ONLY about 1/3 of the warming.
•   It is not possible to predict future climate.
(Evidence is below)

Fact is that there is nothing unusual about today’s climate and thus nothing to explain with man’s CO2. This well respected source debunks several popular lies about climate:

Here are Quotes & Facts from the IPCC (which is considered the bible of climate), NASA & the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society. 
(You may have read other claims from the IPCC, usually from the Summary For Policy Makers without knowing that the summary is actually a political document written, word by word, by politicians from many countries including those looking for cash handouts. The below is from the science part of the report.)

1. Earth only warmed 0.78 degree C up to 2012.
   “Using Had-CRUT4 and its uncertainty estimates, the warming from 1850–1900 to 1986–2005 (reference period for the modelling chapters and Annex I) is 0.61 [0.55 to 0.67] C (90% confidence interval), and the warming from 1850–1900 to 2003–2012 (the most recent decade) is 0.78 [0.72 to 0.85] C (Supplementary Material 2.SM.4.3.3).”
   Pg. 209 of https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/02/WG1AR5_all_final.pdf

2. Man emits about 6% of total emissions.
Add the numbers on this NASA diagram: https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/CarbonCycle/page1.php

3. CO2 causes only about 26-32% of the greenhouse effect. H2O causes 60-75%.
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect#Greenhouse_gases which is based on Table 3 of: Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society Vol. 78, No. 2, February 1997 –
   http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0477%281997%29078%3C0197%3AEAGMEB%3E2.0.CO%3B2

4. We do not have enough data to say that hurricanes have increased.
   “Confidence remains low for long-term (centennial) changes in tropical cyclone activity, after accounting for past changes in observing capabilities.”
   pg 178 of https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/02/WG1AR5_all_final.pdf

5. We do not have enough data to say that storms have increased.
   “Confidence in large-scale trends in storminess or storminess proxies over the last century is low owing to inconsistencies between studies or lack of long-term data in some parts of the world (particularly in the SH). {2.6.4}”
   pg 178 of https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/02/WG1AR5_all_final.pdf

6. No evidence that normal sea level increase has accelerated.
   (Note that sea levels have been rising since the end of the last ice age – the issue is whether it is rising faster.)

   “When a 60-year oscillation is modeled along with an acceleration term, the estimated acceleration in GMSL since 1900 ranges from: 0.000 [–0.002 to 0.002] mm yr–2 in the Ray and Douglas (2011) record, 0.013 [0.007 to 0.019] mm yr–2 in the Jevrejeva et al. (2008) record, and 0.012 [0.009 to 0.015] mm yr–2 in the Church and White (2011) record. Thus, while there is more disagreement on the value of a 20th century acceleration in GMSL when accounting for multi-decadal fluctuations, two out of three records still indicate a significant positive value. The trend in GMSL observed since 1993, however, is not significantly larger than the estimate of 18-year trends in previous decades (e.g., 1920–1950). “
   Page 306 of https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/02/WG1AR5_all_final.pdf 

7. No evidence that floods have increased (per IPCC)
   “AR4 WGI Chapter 3 (Trenberth et al., 2007) did not assess changes in floods but AR4 WGII concluded that there was not a general global trend in the incidence of floods (Kundzewicz et al., 2007). SREX went further to suggest that there was low agreement and thus low confidence at the global scale regarding changes in the magnitude or frequency of floods or even the sign of changes.”
   pg 230 of https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/02/WG1AR5_all_final.pdf

8. No evidence that droughts have increased
   “Confidence is low for a global-scale observed trend in drought or dryness (lack of rainfall) since the middle of the 20th century, owing to lack of direct observations, methodological uncertainties and geographical inconsistencies in the trends.”
   pg 178 of https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/02/WG1AR5_all_final.pdf

9. Prediction of future climate is not possible.
   “The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible. “ https://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg1/501.htm (IPCC third Assessment Report (2001) Section 14.2.2.2, page 774) and Page 771, https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/03/TAR-14.pdf

This shows that THERE IS NO CLIMATE EMERGENCY.
Also see: http://www.debunkingclimate.com/arguements.html
http://icecap.us/index.php/go/political-climate/alarmist_claim_rebuttals_updated/

More Information:
https://notrickszone.com/2021/10/25/in-a-few-days-clouds-affect-earths-radiation-budget-by-more-than-co2-does-in-270-years/

A Potted History of Glaciers   
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/11/11/a-potted-history-of-glaciers/

Swiss Billionaire Bankrolling Dark Money Group Pushing for Biden Climate Initiative
https://freebeacon.com/policy/swiss-billionaire-bankrolling-dark-money-group-pushing-for-biden-climate-initiative/

New Study With Groundbreaking Results: “Connection Between Cosmic Rays, Radiation Budget Reaffirmed” https://notrickszone.com/2021/10/31/new-study-with-groundbreaking-results-connection-between-cosmic-rays-radiation-budget-reaffirmed/

CO2 FOLLOWS TEMPERATURE:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257343053_The_phase_relation_between_atmospheric_carbon_dioxide_and_global_temperature/link/56e4581508ae68afa1106148/download

Gregg Eshelman
Reply to  JimK
December 7, 2021 11:50 pm

Who was it who finally got around to the realization that there were very likely quite a number of storms of various types that blew by completely undetected by people before the advent of things like storm chasing aircraft, RADAR, satellites, and dedicated storm chasers? (A subject I’ve posted about here and other places for years, but none of the scientist types bothered to acknowledge.)

But rather than take the modern data and excise storms that would not have been known about with pre 1960’s to 1970’s technology, his idea was to use modern data to add theoretical storms to the older data. Talk about doing things backwards! More guesswork instead of taking data that is precisely known then looking at it with older methodology to get *exact data* on which storms would have been unknown without the advancements in meteorological technology.

Then with that information, take the X% of each storm type that would have been missed post 1960 and just for an example, add that X% to pre 1960 data to obtain a rough estimate of the storm activity there *may have been* which was unknown and unknowable.

Still less useful than blocking out the mid-century to present storms to make the modern data more comparable to older data.

Think of it as working in a machine shop, using analog vernier calipers to measure everything, then one day you swap that tool for a digital caliper able to reliably measure everything to 0.005mm. You really cannot compare the precision of parts made and measured with the new tool to parts made and measured with the old tool. With the old tool it’s likely the number of parts that didn’t pass go-no go inspection was greater, and that the tolerance limit for go-no go was tightened up thanks to the higher precision of the new tool.

For decades the field of climate and weather study has been insisting that they can treat the older and newer data as equal while ignoring the effects of newer tools with better precision.

MAL
Reply to  Gregg Eshelman
December 8, 2021 12:51 am

Even better hurricanes wind speed is now measure by Doppler radar and has no bearing to what the wind speed of past hurricanes. In that past when hurricanes were only measure by mechanical means, a few feet off the ground.

H.R.
Reply to  MAL
December 8, 2021 5:09 am

Yeah. Some of the old wind speeds weren’t recorded as precisely as they are today with our modern equipment.

Old School…
comment image

Alexy Scherbakoff
December 7, 2021 6:36 pm

The guy is an idiot.

John Endicott
Reply to  Alexy Scherbakoff
December 8, 2021 3:23 am

He’s a successful idiot. Which puts him one up on your own idiocy.

Alexy Scherbakoff
Reply to  John Endicott
December 8, 2021 3:51 am

People measure success in different ways. You are obviously a Musk fanboi. I’m not. I see him as a self-promoting, manipulative, rich kid. His ‘presentation’ for the robot was embarrassing to watch. He had no idea of its potential usefulness. The best he could come up with was to pick up a bolt and hand him a spanner. He was clearly incapable of answering any technical questions and was handing over to others to deal with them.
Yeah. The guy is an idiot.

John Endicott
Reply to  Alexy Scherbakoff
December 8, 2021 4:21 am

You are obviously a Musk fanboi.”

Bwahahahahahaha. If you were to looking through the comments section of old articles here at WUWT, you’d know that isn’t true. But then such shallow thinking as you just displayed is to be expected from an unsuccessful idiot such as yourself.

Robert Hanson
Reply to  Alexy Scherbakoff
December 8, 2021 8:36 am

That word ‘idiot’, it doesn’t mean what you think it means. 😉

Alexy Scherbakoff
Reply to  Robert Hanson
December 8, 2021 5:07 pm

Huh?

MarkW
Reply to  Alexy Scherbakoff
December 8, 2021 9:41 am

Thus speaks the Putin fanboi.

Alexy Scherbakoff
Reply to  MarkW
December 8, 2021 5:10 pm

What the hell has Putin got to do with it? Am I his fan simply because I have a Russian name?

Alexy Scherbakoff
Reply to  Alexy Scherbakoff
December 8, 2021 5:13 pm

Why did you attack my comment? Something personal against me?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Alexy Scherbakoff
December 9, 2021 9:33 pm

He does seem to be unusually antagonistic today.

Alexy Scherbakoff
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
December 9, 2021 10:58 pm

Some people get butt hurt when I respond in a pithy way to something they have said. I sorta move on because I respond to a comment rather than the person. Some people are rather immature and hold grudges. Such is life. Sometimes it’s amusing and sometimes it’s hurtful.

markl
December 7, 2021 6:53 pm

Musk is getting more conservative as he ages. He’s still a fervent supporter of human induced climate change but I tend to believe he has ulterior motives.

John
Reply to  markl
December 7, 2021 7:13 pm

dont you mean dillusional

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  John
December 7, 2021 8:14 pm

No, but possibly delusional. Unless he’s into pickles.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
December 7, 2021 11:43 pm

He does not have to be into pickles. I like dill on my salmon too…

Steve Cushman
December 7, 2021 6:54 pm

I have never seen those promoting the theory that the the earth is overpopulated volunteering to help by removing themselves from the living.

guest
Reply to  Steve Cushman
December 7, 2021 7:36 pm

Why should they if they have been responsible in their reproduction and are positive contributors to society?

How many “the more the merrier” proponents have moved to Calcutta?

MarkW
Reply to  guest
December 7, 2021 7:58 pm

The Earth could easily handle 3 to 4 times the population we have now.

Ron
Reply to  MarkW
December 7, 2021 8:52 pm

Every person in the world could fit into Canada with each person have 1 Sq km to themselves.

Pamela Matlack-Klein
Reply to  Ron
December 8, 2021 3:05 am

Living in a square km of Canada happily would depend a great deal on exactly where the kilometer was located….

guest
Reply to  Ron
December 8, 2021 8:37 am

If the rest of the world DID move in to Canada, would the lives of each Canadian living there now improve? According to you, it would.

MarkW
Reply to  guest
December 8, 2021 9:43 am
menace
Reply to  Ron
December 8, 2021 9:34 am

How about instead we put all the windmills in Canada

menace
Reply to  Ron
December 8, 2021 9:41 am

Do the math, Canada has nearly 10 million sq km, with 7 billion that is 700 people per sq km. That is 35 acres each but the practical habitable land might be ~20% or 7 acres per person. Still not bad!

menace
Reply to  menace
December 8, 2021 9:59 am

oops bad math on my part: that is 0.35 acres each not 35 so maybe pretty tight after all

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MarkW
December 7, 2021 9:07 pm

If by “easily handle,” you mean survive, you are probably right. But that means living like a Third World country. Or, if lucky, like someone living in Tokyo. A country where people pay money just to enjoy sitting in a quiet room looking out at tranquil scenery instead of tall buildings festooned with neon. I for one, feel there is more to life than just surviving and being told precisely where to place my garbage receptacle on pickup day. There is a Japanese saying: The nail that stands up gets hammered down. There is a reason that non-conformity cannot be tolerated in high density populations.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
December 7, 2021 11:45 pm

Mate, you need to travel to some wide open spaces. Australia, Canada, Central Asia to name a few.

Last edited 1 month ago by Zig Zag Wanderer
MAL
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 8, 2021 12:55 am

Western United States also, Travel through the great Basin, the great plains the northern forest of the US and tell me there are two many people. Hardin County South Dakota population of .5 per square mile, largest town of the county 230 people.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MAL
December 8, 2021 9:06 am

Zig Zag and MAL
Tell me why there are so few people living in those places. Might it have something to do with an inhospitable climate or lack of sufficient water to support any population? Why is it that Hell is usually depicted as a place of unbearable heat? Assuming that Heaven and Hell exist, where would you prefer to spend eternity? Utilizing the Outback or the Great Basin as a place to put more people is condemning people to a ‘living Hell.’

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
December 8, 2021 1:42 pm

Utilizing the Outback or the Great Basin as a place to put more people is condemning people to a ‘living Hell.’

Ha ha! A living hell that many people choose to live in. Probably mostly because there are fewer people like you out there!

Last edited 1 month ago by Zig Zag Wanderer
Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 9, 2021 12:22 pm

Probably mostly because there are fewer people like you out there!

No, probably because there are fewer people out there, period.

MarkW
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
December 8, 2021 2:00 pm

In Nordic countries, hell is described as someplace cold.
You really need to get out more.

Lots of people retire to these “living Hells”. Your knowledge of the world, and people in general is quite shallow.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MarkW
December 9, 2021 12:52 pm

I really do need to get out more. I haven ‘t visited Hel. So, I can’t speak with authority about the climate or weather. However, I haven’t found an online reference to the climate conditions either.

In my defense, I did refer to “Hell,” not “Hel.” You might want to read the online description of Hel in Norse Mythology for Smart People ( https://norse-mythology.org/cosmology/the-nine-worlds/helheim/ ) wherein it states, “But apart from the fact that Hel and Hell are both realms of the dead located beneath the ground, the two concepts have nothing in common.”

As to whether or not my “knowledge of the world, and people in general is quite shallow,” it would seem to be on a par with your own.

Your diplomacy leaves a lot to be desired.

MarkW
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
December 8, 2021 1:58 pm

If we packed to the level of Tokyo, the entire world’s populations of humans could fit in Japan.

You really need to get over your fear of people and take a look at the numbers.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MarkW
December 9, 2021 1:12 pm

Your understanding of the culture of Japan and how it has been impacted by its population density is quite, shall I say, “shallow?”

As to the numbers, Tokyo, which is the most densely populated city in Japan, has a population density of about 6,200 people per square kilometer. The population of the Earth is about 7.7 E09. The area of Japan is about 377,975 square kilometers. Thus, if we tried to stuff all the people in the world into Japan, it would have a population density of about 206,000 people per square kilometer, more than 33 times the density of Tokyo. I might point out that most of the people in Japan live near the coasts, as the mountains are not amenable to large cities.

I typically agree with your responses on this forum. However, you seem to be demonstrating a certain irrationality towards the subject of population, which has caused you to make indefensible claims.

John Endicott
Reply to  guest
December 8, 2021 3:27 am

I’ve yet to find a true believe and promoter of the idea that the earth is overpopulated who was also a positive contributor to society. It’d be easier to find a unicorn dancing on a rainbow.

guest
Reply to  John Endicott
December 8, 2021 8:42 am

That’s because the idea has unfortunately been seized upon by the Left. Meanwhile, the right has embraced growth at any cost in order which their corporate idols have enjoyed all the way to the bank. How many conservative organizations have been helped by corporate donations in return for their support of low taxes and lessregulations?

John Endicott
Reply to  guest
December 8, 2021 8:56 am

Engaging in a non sequitur whataboutism isn’t as clever as you think it is.

Last edited 1 month ago by John Endicott
MarkW
Reply to  guest
December 8, 2021 9:45 am

Low taxes and less regulations help everyone. Unless you don’t like having a job?

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  MarkW
December 8, 2021 1:45 pm

“More taxes and more regulations forever is the only possible way that civilization can ever possibly survive!”

Every Socialist

MarkW
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 8, 2021 2:01 pm

Have you ever noticed that those who are the loudest about proclaiming their neutrality almost always push socialist policies?

HotScot
Reply to  guest
December 8, 2021 10:46 am

Riiggghhhttt,

So it’s only the useless eaters who should be culled.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Steve Cushman
December 7, 2021 8:59 pm

That is not true! I promise you that I will die.

MarkW
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
December 8, 2021 2:02 pm

I’m still looking for a loophole to that requirement.

Gregg Eshelman
Reply to  Steve Cushman
December 7, 2021 11:52 pm

The Voluntary Human Extinction Project’s members are not helping their cause by continuing to stick around and contribute to the wear and tear on Gaia. If they are so dedicated to making Homo Sapiens Sapiens extinct, why haven’t they volunteered to be first in line?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Gregg Eshelman
December 9, 2021 1:16 pm

I got in line when I was born. I dislike it when people jump ahead in line. I’ll just politely stay where I am and wait my turn.

John Endicott
Reply to  Steve Cushman
December 8, 2021 3:28 am

To anyone who thinks the earth is overpopulated: You first.

MarkW
Reply to  Steve Cushman
December 8, 2021 10:04 am

In my experience a very large percentage of the people who go on and on about over population are only upset because, in their view, it’s the wrong kind of people who are having children.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MarkW
December 9, 2021 1:18 pm

The only “wrong” kind of people having children are those not willing to properly take care of them and raise them correctly. For example, I don’t think that Greta was raised properly.

John
December 7, 2021 7:11 pm

whether you agree or disagree with the overpopulation narrative without hydrocarbon energy under the new green(death) initiatives I suspect about 1/2 to 2/3 of our current population will die well before 2030 let alone 2050
we cannot even meet supply chains now with the current energy systems – no serious new developments since 2015
lots of chatter about how we improved the amount of renewables (wind and solar) but the UK and Europe are bleating about energy poverty and what’s worse the need for gas and coal to keep the lights on this winter

So Mr Musk tell we how and why without your fan boys that we can support a stable population on an unstable energy basis

RexAlan
December 7, 2021 7:16 pm

I’ve been saying for the last 20 years that the only way the worlds population will ever stabilize is with a continued improvement in everybody’s standard of living and the only way to achieve that is through cheap energy. I’m also sure that almost all the people here would agree that the cheapest form of energy comes from fossil fuels.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  RexAlan
December 7, 2021 7:30 pm

They ought to agree with everythig you wrote in this comment.

Robert Hanson
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 8, 2021 8:47 am

a continued improvement in everybody’s standard of living” is what is causing the dearth of childbirth in most developed nations. Japan has been population negative for a number of years. Italy, without all of the 3rd world immigrants, would already be there too. Even Muslim nations like Iran have a plummeting birth rate. Musk has a real point on this.

Tom Abbott
December 7, 2021 7:24 pm

From the article: ““If people don’t have more children, civilization is going to crumble, mark my words,” said Elon Musk.”

I wouldn’t go that far. I think the world will adjust to a reduced population.

It’s not like it is going to go to zero or anything, it’s just going to level off.

Musk needs to build some space habitats and increase the human population that way, if he is real worried about the numbers of humans. And he may save the human race that way, too. Go to orbit, young man.

There was a mass extinction about 450 million years ago, supposedly caused by a gamma ray burst. I heard on a science program tonight that they now think gamma ray bursts such as that come around about every 500 million years. A space habitat would protect the humans and other creatures living there from any such gamma ray burst.

Think Big, Elon. Hook up with Bezos. He’s into large space habitats. Let’s get this thing off the gound!

guest
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 7, 2021 7:52 pm

A gamma ray burst originates from outside the galaxy. By the time the emissions reach Earth it probably makes little difference where you are in the solar system. The earth’s atmosphere offers considerable protection from such events.

Colonizing outer space does not really offer any increase in protection from GRBs while it does expose you to a higher radiation dose than you would get on earth. If it was desired to protect a fraction of the population from a GRB, undersea colonies would be more effective and certainly cheaper. But that is not as exciting.

MarkW
Reply to  guest
December 7, 2021 8:00 pm

A GRB from outside the galaxy wouldn’t be strong enough to do harm.
It’s the ones inside this galaxy that you have to worry about.

guest
Reply to  MarkW
December 8, 2021 8:45 am

Same argument applies. You are better off on earth’s surface or undersea than on the moon or mars or in a space station. And it’s a hell of a lot cheaper.

MarkW
Reply to  guest
December 8, 2021 9:49 am

If we were to be hit by a nearby GBR, it wouldn’t matter where you lived. Even if you were buried deep enough in the earth to survive the initial blast, the death of everything on the surface and in the deep oceans would still mean death to you.

As to whether living on Mars or the Moons of Jupiter or Saturn, would protect you from a GBR, that would depend on the exact focus of the beam. It’s quite possible it could destroy the earth and leave the other planets alone.

Regardless, the end goal for leaving the planet, is to leave the solar system entirely.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  guest
December 9, 2021 3:30 am

“A gamma ray burst originates from outside the galaxy.”

A gamma ray burst can happen when two neutron starts collide. Astronomers already have their eye on one pair of neutron stars that are within the 8,000 light year danger zone, and the astronomers say this pair is aiming right at the Earth.

There are literaly millions of neutron stars in our own galaxy.

“Colonizing outer space does not really offer any increase in protection from GRBs”

On the contrary. If you live in a space habitat in outer space, you will be living in a habitat that has radiation protection, otherwise you would be a fool to live in outer space.

A one-meter-thick coating of water ice would be sufficient to protect one against any radiation in space. So you would be much safer in oribt in a space habitat than you would be on Earth. You might be the only ones left after a gamma ray event.

And btw, artificial gravity will be *required* for people living for long periods of time in space. Brain damage has already be spotted and attributed to living in micro-gravity for long periods of time.

So NASA needs to get busy developing artificial gravity for living in space. Humans are not adapted to micro-gravity.

Fortunately, artificial gravity can be generated quite easily in space.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tom Abbott
Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 7, 2021 9:19 pm

When the US had a population of 150 million (today about 330 million) we were the most powerful country in the world, led the world in science, and people were relatively courteous. Today, we have people attacking stewardesses on airplanes, breast feeding their hairless cat on an airplane, nutters promoting all forms of perverse lifestyles, flash mobs looting stores, using recreational drugs that supports the Mexican cartels and results in high homicide rates, and having more armed police than naturalists in our National Parks. I see no correlation between an increased population and a better quality of life. Nor do I see any reason to believe that if our population were decline to half of what it is that civilization would crumble.

MAL
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
December 8, 2021 1:00 am

The problem is not how many, the problem is how they were nurtured and educated. Both are sadly lacking and mostly are due to believing that daddy government can replace fathers. As a child I never feared what the authorities would do, it was what my parent would do. That fear is gone today.

guest
Reply to  MAL
December 8, 2021 8:47 am

Increasing population density tends to increase social dysfunction and pathology. Unless you’re a bee or an ant.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  guest
December 8, 2021 9:26 am

One need only look at the FBI Uniform Crime Report to see that there is a strong correlation between violent crime and population density.

When I lived in Woodstock (Vermont) while in the Army, I was initially surprised to discover that most people not only left the keys to their car in the ignition, but they kept the engine running while they were doing their shopping in the Winter. After giving some thought to it, I realized that in a small town where a lot of people knew each other, if someone were to steal a car, someone would likely observe it and think to themselves, “Why is Johnny driving Bill’s car?” Anonymity in large metropolitan areas contributes to crime simply because people think that they can get away with it. They are often right.

The major advantage to large populations is the ability to build large pyramids by hand.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MAL
December 8, 2021 9:14 am

That fear is gone today.

Society is following a predictable trajectory as the population increases. The question shouldn’t be “How many people can we keep alive on Earth?” Instead, the questions should be, “What is the optimum population to provide a high quality of life for everyone while minimizing government control over our lives, reducing the risk of pandemics, and having high employment?”

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
December 9, 2021 3:38 am

I agree. The Earth did quite well with half the population we have now. And we were both alive when that was the case. It wasn’t that long ago. 🙂

Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 7, 2021 9:31 pm

“It’s not like it is going to go to zero or anything, it’s just going to level off.”
It will if the birth rate goes below two and stays there.
100 generations of Just below replacement(1.9/2)^100 = .01 x start population.

At some point countries will shed the econuttry and start programs to increase fertility.

Shoki Kaneda
Reply to  JimK
December 7, 2021 9:53 pm

Like Hungary?

Robert Hanson
Reply to  JimK
December 8, 2021 8:57 am

China is already trying, but it’s too late. Their 1 child per couple program became too popular, and now they can’t reverse it. Well educated middle class folks find that one child is enough for them. More children are costly, in terms not only of $, but also in the work of child raising. The problem of course is when you cut the population in half every generation. Not to mention the problem of an aging population with few younger folks to care for them.

Andyhce
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 7, 2021 10:54 pm

If reproduction is below replacement, and stays below replacement, it is approaching zero as its limit. That is not “leveling off”.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Andyhce
December 9, 2021 3:45 am

Why do some people think trends will go on forever?

You know, it wasn’t that long ago that people were predicting a population of 12 billion on planet Earth.

They aren’t saying that now.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tom Abbott
RayB
December 7, 2021 7:44 pm

I like his solution to the 3 laws of robotics. Make them weak and slow enough to overpower them. He should also add a switch that is easily accessible.

How many robots will be taken hostage by some robotic crime syndicates?

Also, you can see that soon enough there will be markets for sex skins of all sorts.

The possibilities are endless in alternative “businesses” for his robots.

Alexy Scherbakoff
Reply to  RayB
December 7, 2021 7:51 pm

Chucky the sex doll. A neckbeards delight.

Reply to  RayB
December 8, 2021 1:03 am

Amazon was in the news for selling incredibly life-like, animated AI babies into the sex trade. Synthetic skin on sexbots is improving, but has been around so long, it is not even in the news often enough for you to know about it?
But as for them 3 Laws; brother, I dare you to think about them thoroughly, and then use every opportunity to remind people those laws actually are desperately needed before we take one more Artificially Intelled step.
I leave you with this:
https://www.greenpets.co.za/index.php/en/32-paranoid-goy/economics/199-corporate-robot-law

RayB
Reply to  cilo
December 8, 2021 7:28 pm

I am very well aware of the 3 laws of robotics. They need to be encrypted at a quantum level in the machines, and of course if anyone or anything tries to temper with them, it is the automatic destruction of the AI.

That being said, the younger generations (the educated ones anyway) seem to want for humanity to step back and reevaluate where we are all going. They don’t seem to mind going back to simpler times. That might be a smart move from them actually.

Robert of Texas
December 7, 2021 7:46 pm

The higher the education level is, the lower the birth rate. This seems to be some perverse pressure for evolution to keep mankind halfway stupid. Or maybe the end result will be back to living in caves?

Truthbknown
December 7, 2021 8:01 pm

The “depopulation” overlords are making clot bots!

Doug D
December 7, 2021 8:35 pm

I met this man. He has a great personality. My son was a construction superintendent of the construction of his huge Bay Area plant. ,
I came out to just look at the plant and my son said to come to the main entrance. They came out and Elon had some good words about my sons work.
he was in the habit of mingling with all the workers . The rule was I for people to take a break when they were tired . He said he would rather have 6 hrs of energy than 8 hrs of being tired . The workers will call him by name . They obviously enjoyed working on the plant .
I think his hyper loop will end up being his legacy . 1 1/2 hour from La to San Fran . The plan is to run it underground in the median of Interstate highway 5

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Doug D
December 7, 2021 9:22 pm

Wait a few decades and LA and SF will merge.

Shoki Kaneda
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
December 7, 2021 9:55 pm

No water on the central coast. The reason it’s not like that already.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Shoki Kaneda
December 8, 2021 9:33 am

There isn’t sufficient local water to support LA and there hasn’t been for decades. Initially, they obtained water from the Owens River, and then from the Colorado River.

Some of the best agricultural land in the world, the Great Valley, is being paved over as Sacramento and the San Fernando Valley spread out to merge with Bakersfield/Clovis.

Agriculture and homes are in direct competition for the same flat land.

RexAlan
Reply to  Doug D
December 7, 2021 9:38 pm

“I think his hyper loop will end up being his legacy”. If so it will be for all the wrong reasons.

The Hyperloop: BUSTED!

Vincent
December 7, 2021 9:00 pm

Whilst 7 or 8 or even 10 billion people might seem a huge amount, let’s try to get this in perspective. In relation to the total mass of living organisms on earth, human beings in total represent just a tiny fraction. The total mass of all living organisms below the surface of the soil is far greater than the total mass of all living organisms above the surface, including all plants and animals.

It is estimated that the total mass of just one species in the soil, the common Earthworm, is far greater than the total mass of all humans. Therefore, it seems clear to me that the population size of humanity is not the problem. The problem is, how do we organize our economic affairs and activities in a manner which provides the maximum benefit to both ourselves and the biosphere?

Davidf
Reply to  Vincent
December 8, 2021 12:50 am

Lets not forget, also, that a considerable part of the DNA inside your skin, is not actually your own.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Davidf
December 8, 2021 1:50 pm

Most, I believe.

MAL
Reply to  Vincent
December 8, 2021 1:06 am

Humans only recently match ants in total body mass. If you want to know how many ants there are is wander into the Arizona desert in the summer and then be very careful were you sit down, The Southwestern fire ant will be everywhere and they sting and not one but dozens if they get on you and you crush just one.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MAL
December 8, 2021 9:47 am

Interestingly, the red ants were more abundant in Phoenix when I lived there in 1953 than when I returned in 1996.

One also wants to be very careful where they sit in the desert because of the Jumping Cholla!

Reply to  Vincent
December 8, 2021 1:28 am

The problem is, how do we organize our economic affairs and activities

First, we read dictionaries, so we can know that economics is not about how much there is of a thing, but how effectively you utilise that which you have.
Consumerist consumption is the foundation of a “growing economy” but the exact opposite of “economy”. By that tiny little word “growing” before “economy”, humanity’s very basis of understanding their world has been corrupted. In reality, a child can figure out; the only way to “grow” the human economy, would be to grow more humans. Instead we get university courses in Economics Theory, also known as Justifications for Institutional Theft.
I’m not paranoid, just an unbeliever…

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  cilo
December 8, 2021 9:55 am

… the only way to “grow” the human economy, would be to grow more humans.

I disagree. If a small ranching community suddenly discovers that they are sitting on economically recoverable oil, and the land owners lease the mineral rights to oil companies, there will be an influx of money that allows the ranchers to buy things they want or need that they could not previously afford.

guest
Reply to  Vincent
December 8, 2021 8:51 am

Why would total mass be a valid way of putting the issue in perspective? A virus makes up a small mass of an infected person but that does not mean it is not a concern.

guest
Reply to  guest
December 8, 2021 11:06 am

I’m sure someone is going to put me into the Ehrlich camp by saying I am calling humans a virus. I was only providing a narrow (but true) counterexample.

A positive counterexample would be that the list in Charles Murray’s “Human Accomplishment” is a very small fraction of the human population. It is made up almost entirely of White males in relatively open societies. Both are in rapid decline and are unlikely to be rejuvenated by adding billions to the population.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Vincent
December 8, 2021 9:43 am

The real problem is, humans can only go about 3 days without water before they risk dying. The reason there is so much unoccupied real estate is because there is insufficient water to support more than a handful of people. The marginal, semi-arid locations, such as between the Rockies and the Mississippi River, have depended on the Ogallala Aquifer for decades. However, it is being drawn down faster than it can replenish itself. There is a risk that the farming areas dependent on it may cease to exist in the not too distant future.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer

guest
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
December 9, 2021 10:03 am

Then consider just the cooling water needs of all those thermal cycle power plants needed to produce enough electricity to power their techno-utopia. “Put them offshore platforms”they will say. Which doesn’t help if you are in Chad or North Dakota.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  guest
December 9, 2021 1:22 pm

To be fair, cooling water doesn’t have to be drinkable or usable for irrigation.

Mike
December 7, 2021 9:06 pm

The Bot, said Musk during a Tesla AI event in August, would be capable of deadlifting up to 150 pounds and traveling at around 5 m.p.h.”

musk.JPG
Moderately Cross of East Anglia
Reply to  Mike
December 8, 2021 2:00 am

Is weightlifting for robots likely to become an Olympic event anytime soon?

But I agree with Muskie’s comment about ending EV subsidies worldwide – it ought to be extended to all so called “renewable” scammery as well.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Moderately Cross of East Anglia
December 8, 2021 1:52 pm

Is weightlifting for robots likely to become an Olympic event anytime soon?

Given that every occupation from tiddlywinks upwards seems to be included in the new ‘inclusive’ Olympics, I’d not be at all surprised.

December 7, 2021 9:28 pm

Those concerned about overpopulation and resource exhaustion should read The Ultimate Resource:
http://www.juliansimon.com/writings/Ultimate_Resource/

guest
Reply to  Sam Grove
December 8, 2021 11:14 am

Does quality of life continuously increase with population density? The experience of large urban areas suggests that it doesn’t. They also suggest that representative forms of government don’t scale with population.

MarkW
Reply to  guest
December 8, 2021 2:06 pm

I’m still trying to figure out why most population Malthusist actually think the world is on the verge of becoming one massive megalopolis.

guest
Reply to  MarkW
December 9, 2021 9:40 am

I’m still trying to figure out why the population growth at any cost people say no problemo when an overwhelmingly large fraction of that future growth will occur in nations that even they admit are dysfunctional with no prospect of being fixed.

Kind of like when they cheer on sending in the military to liberate some crap hole and then when that fails and we bring half the population back to be resettled in the US, will moan about all the muslims here and how the politicians tied the military’s hands and can’t be trusted. Even though those politicians were the ones they believed when they said we had to send the troops there in the first place.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  guest
December 9, 2021 4:07 am

“They also suggest that representative forms of government don’t scale with population.”

I think representative government would do just fine as long as the people are told the truth.

The problem comes when those providing Society with the truth turn into political partisans and start providing political propaganda to promote an ideology instead of the truth.

This is when representative government falls down. People cannot govern themselves properly if they are constatly fed lies. They end up voting for the wrong people. Which was the goal of the political propaganda. The best example of this is Joe Biden.

guest
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 9, 2021 9:57 am

When you extend representative government over large populations and/or geographic regions, you will inevitably reach a point where enough differences due to ethnicity, race, religion, culture etc. emerge that cannot be reconciled by reason or debate. Under the best of circumstances, you get a voluntary peaceful breakup (Czechoslovakia), civil wars (numerous cases) or the nation is held together with authoritarian means.

It’s much more difficult to propagate lies and disinformation when the events and people involved are local.

Our media companies are private corporations that have to answer to stockholders. Regulations have been reduced over the last several decades. They have been largely free to merge with and acquire other media companies to benefit from “synergies and economies of scale”. The ones getting government subsidies are a small part of the market.

Are you saying the free market does not optimize the products offered in the market place? Are you some kind of socialist?

Tom Abbott
Reply to  guest
December 10, 2021 4:27 am

“When you extend representative government over large populations and/or geographic regions, you will inevitably reach a point where enough differences due to ethnicity, race, religion, culture etc. emerge that cannot be reconciled by reason or debate.”

I don’t agree with that at all.

The United States has come a looong way towards assimilating everyone into our society. Unfortunately, those on the Radical Left think it is a good thing to divide and to destroy the United States as founded. These kinds of circumstances make it very hard to bring everyone together.

But we are going to defeat the radical Leftists in the end because their divisive agenda is becoming more apparent every day. They have the upper hand for now, but not for much longer.

The Radical Left is an existential threat to the freedoms of all Americans, even lefties.

guest
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 11, 2021 9:09 am

Do you believe a world government is practical, even desirable?

December 7, 2021 9:43 pm

Elon Musk can be right some of the time. Credit to him when he is right. Which is not as often as we are led to believe.

Gregg Eshelman