Useless Green Energy Hitting The Wall

Reposted from the Manhattan Contrarian

Francis Menton

In the field of litigation settlements, people sometimes talk about a “win, win” scenario — a settlement structure where both sides can get some advantage and simultaneously claim victory. By that criterion, what is “green” energy (aka intermittent wind and solar power)? The public pays hundreds of billions of dollars of subsidies to get the things built, and in return it gets: sudden shortages and soaring prices for coal, oil, gas and electricity; and dramatically reduced reliability of the electrical grid, leading to periodic blackouts and risks of many more of same; and despite it all fossil fuel use doesn’t go down. It’s a “lose, lose, lose.”

As the world comes out of the pandemic and the international economy returns to attempting to fulfill normal consumer demand, you can see green energy hitting the wall pretty much everywhere you look. It’s just a question of which data points you want to collect for a day’s entertainment.

The current energy crisis in Europe and Asia is of course getting next to no coverage in the U.S. media. But over at Bloomberg News they have a big story on October 4. That’s Bloomberg News as in Mike Bloomberg — the man with four private jets and at least ten houses who devotes his public life to hectoring you to cut your “carbon footprint.” But now suddenly the Bloomberg News people seem to have figured out that periodic energy crises are an inevitable consequence of increasing reliance on the undependable wind and sun. The headline of the article is “Global Energy Crisis Is the First of Many in the Green Power Era.” The Bloomberg piece itself is behind paywall, but extensive excerpts can be found at Climate Depot here, where they call it a “moment of clarity”:

The next several decades could see more periods of energy-driven inflation, fuel shortages and lost economic growth as electricity supplies are left vulnerable to shocks.. . . . The world is living through the first major energy crisis of the clean-power transition. It won’t be the last. . . . Wind and solar power production have soared in the last decade. But both renewable sources are notoriously fickle — available at some times and not at others. And electricity, unlike gas or coal, is difficult to store in meaningful quantities. That’s a problem, because on the electrical grid, supply and demand must be constantly, perfectly balanced. Throw that balance out of whack, and blackouts result.

No kidding.

Meanwhile, the latest place to get hit with blackouts due to an unreliable grid is China. (Previous rounds of blackouts traceable to over-reliance on unreliable wind and/or solar power have hit South Australia in 2016, California in 2020, and Texas in February this year.). From the New York Times, September 27:

Power cuts and even blackouts have slowed or closed factories across China in recent days, adding a new threat to the country’s slowing economy and potentially further snarling global supply chains ahead of the busy Christmas shopping season in the West. The outages have rippled across most of eastern China, where the bulk of the population lives and works.

But didn’t the same New York Times just tell us on October 8 that China is “the world leader” in both solar power and wind power? Somehow, neither of those seems to help when electricity demand suddenly ramps up. Just yesterday the Guardian reported that the recent power chaos is causing China to re-emphasize what they call “energy security,” which the Guardian takes to mean fossil fuels, particularly coal:

China plans to build more coal-fired power plants and has hinted that it will rethink its timetable to slash emissions. . . . In a statement after a meeting of Beijing’s National Energy Commission, the Chinese premier, Li Keqiang, stressed the importance of regular energy supply, after swathes of the country were plunged into darkness by rolling blackouts that hit factories and homes. While China has published plans to reach peak carbon emissions by 2030, the statement hinted that the energy crisis had led the Communist party to rethink the timing of this ambition, with a new “phased timetable and roadmap for peaking carbon emissions”. . . . “Energy security should be the premise on which a modern energy system is built and and the capacity for energy self-supply should be enhanced,” the statement said.

Over in the UK, somebody has now finally taken the time to do a calculation of how much it would cost to provide sufficient battery storage to get the country through an extended (ten day) period of dark and calm in the winter, assuming a grid relying 100% on wind and solar generation. The calculation has been made by Professors Peter Edwards and Peter Dobson of Oxford University, and Gari Owen of Annwvyn Solutions, on behalf of Net Zero Watch, which is a project of the Global Warming Policy Foundation. (Full disclosure: I serve on the board of the American affiliate of this organization.). The answer that Edwards, Dobson and Owen come up with is approximately 3 trillion British pounds. For comparison, UK GDP in 2020 was just under 2 trillion British pounds. And if you look at the Edwards/Dobson/Owen calculation, you will realize that they assume zero loss of energy on the round trip into and out of the batteries. That’s rather a favorable assumption, given that in practice an all-wind-and-solar system would need to store power all the way from the summer to the winter. What percentage of your cell phone’s battery charge is left if you leave the device unplugged on the shelf for six months? But then, it’s all fantasy anyway, so what does it matter?

And finally, the Department of Energy’s Energy Information Agency has just (October 6) come out with its annual International Energy Outlook. This is the sage projection of our wisest gurus of how the production and consumption of energy will change over the three decades from now until 2050. Surely then these guys will show us how the world will achieve the true path to Net Zero carbon emissions within that time frame, if not much sooner.

OK, then, here is the key chart:

Wait a minute! Could they really be saying that, rather than being on a path to oblivion, all major fossil fuel categories (petroleum, natural gas and coal) will continue to see increased usage right on through 2050, and with no indication that any decline will have begun even then? Yes, that is exactly what they are saying. Indeed the projected increases in consumption of two of those fuels are quite dramatic — up in the range of 50% for natural gas and 40% for petroleum. Yes, so-called “renewables” are projected to increase dramatically; but after thirty years of this, they will still, according to EIA, provide only about 25% of “primary energy consumption,” which is less than petroleum alone, and barely a third of the combined contribution of petroleum, natural gas and coal.

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Fred Hubler
October 18, 2021 7:32 am

Renewables includes hydro, geothermal and biomass (wood) as well as wind and solar.

observa
Reply to  Fred Hubler
October 18, 2021 7:53 am

Do keep up or you’ll be dammed. Hydro equals solar nowadays-
Undamming Rivers: A Chance For New Clean Energy Source – Yale E360

Geothermal bad for Gaia-
Environmental Impacts of Geothermal Energy – Clean Energy Ideas (clean-energy-ideas.com)

Focus man focus! Only solar panels and windmills good for Gaia and the global coolers investments. Fans blow cool and solar panels suck up the sun’s heat or something like that.

ResourceGuy
October 18, 2021 7:41 am

Lots of walls out there….

OPEC+ Once Again Fails to Pump Enough to Meet Its Output Target (yahoo.com)

Maybe old Joe will bang his head against one, Jimmy Carter style.

CD in Wisconsin
October 18, 2021 8:06 am

“Over in the UK, somebody has now finally taken the time to do a calculation of how much it would cost to provide sufficient battery storage to get the country through an extended (ten day) period of dark and calm in the winter, assuming a grid relying 100% on wind and solar generation. The calculation has been made by Professors Peter Edwards and Peter Dobson of Oxford University, and Gari Owen of Annwvyn Solutions, on behalf of Net Zero Watch, which is a project of the Global Warming Policy Foundation. (Full disclosure: I serve on the board of the American affiliate of this organization.). The answer that Edwards, Dobson and Owen come up with is approximately 3 trillion British pounds.”

**************

And how long do those storage batteries last? How often would they have to be replaced?

Can’t find any info on the lifespan of commercial utility-scale batteries, but PV Magazine says residential batteries last 5 to 15 years….

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/09/23/how-long-do-residential-storage-batteries-last/

“Solar installer Sunrun said batteries can last anywhere between five to 15 years. That means a replacement likely will be needed during the 20 to 30 year life of a solar system.”

Three trillion British pounds, and they have to be replaced every 5 to 15 years. Are they recyclable? Do they leave toxic waste behind like solar panels do? How much raw materials have to mined to produce 3 trillion British pounds worth of storage batteries?

So many questions, and the Green Energy Movement doesn’t seem interested in providing the answers. I wonder why.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
October 18, 2021 10:38 am

Can’t find any info on the lifespan of commercial utility-scale batteries, …

Commercial, utility-scale batteries haven’t been around long enough to acquire any reliable actuarial data! The designers undoubtedly have made assumptions about the longevity, but then there is Murphy’s Law, which only demonstrates its power in the real world of experience.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
October 19, 2021 10:47 am

One of many variations: “Something will go wrong, and at the worst possible moment.”

Murphy was an optimist. [And for the true Murphy fan, “Murphy didn’t write Murphy’s Law.”]

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
October 18, 2021 12:35 pm

Batteries used with residential PV systems are almost invariably lead-acid.

markl
October 18, 2021 8:42 am

So ‘energy security’ is the new catch phrase when it’s something most of the developed world has had for over a century? Will we enter a period when people say “remember when we had reliable electricity 24X7? If there’s a tipping point it will be over intermittent energy. What will people today do without their cell phones?

Robert Hanson
Reply to  markl
October 18, 2021 10:17 am

Not to mention their heat in Minnesota Winters, and Arizona Summers, not to mention cable TV and internet, and house lights after sunset, and recharges for their EVs, and….

October 18, 2021 9:35 am

As noted before, we can correlate increasing numbers of crowing comments from Griff regarding renewable investment and market penetration with increasing articles on energy security, rolling blackouts, and rising energy costs.

Correlation is not always causation, but we never used to worry about rolling blackouts here in the first world.

Griff is responsible. My science is just as valid as climate scientology.

October 18, 2021 9:42 am

There are people who see all this as new information. But this has been known for many years if not decades by those who address the honest science. The warnings have been provided to policy makers for just as long, and those same policy makers have either ignored, misunderstood, or denied the truth of the warnings in favour of their own agendas. It is great to see coverage of the truth about energy systems and the failure of “renewables” which really aren’t renewable given the inputs and leftovers, but there is no excuse for being surprised in 2021 with the outcome. In a similar vein, anyone who feels most of the media are doing their job and honestly informing the public is delusional.

October 18, 2021 10:24 am

EIA by 2050:

“…up in the range of 50% for natural gas and 40% for petroleum. Yes, so-called “renewables” are projected to increase dramatically; but after thirty years of this, they will still, according to EIA, provide only about 25% of “primary energy”

Let’s add a dynamic factor to the forecast to neutralize the ‘petri-dish’ view of human interaction. I call it the pitchforks in the street factor. No computer was used in this modification of the EIA forecast:,

Gas up at least 50%, oil up 40%, coal up 25%+ (3rd world dev.) , nuclear up 20% and growing after 2050. Solar for individual site use but not part of the grid.

Germany is decommissioning end of life windmill farms at present. Do they have the will (or cash) to replace them. Subsidies will be gone. RE companies are going broke.

More favorable words about nuclear are appearing regularly. We haven’t become fully attuned to what is happening re coal power in 3rd world Asia and Africa and when their poverty declines, they will want cars, highways, A/C, mod homes, vacations/travel… so I think even the first three energy sources could easily double by 2050. 600ppm CO2 will give us a Garden of Eden Earth and no troubling changes to weather.

October 18, 2021 11:12 am

I have had at least a dozen conversations at lunchtime over the table with the electrical Dispatchers at the utility where I worked. As far back as 1995 they described to me how the unreliable renewables were a pain in the a$$ to dispatch. Larger Wind Turbines just make it worse as a larger source is lost instantaneously. The only savior is the rotating surplus. But that rotating surplus has to be close to the lost generation or a major portion of the grid can also be lost. More Wind Turbines mean more outages. Accept it. it is a fact of wind turbines. If/when the rotating surplus is further away then that source is going through more substations and more protective circuit breakers greatly increasing the probability of a circuit breaker tripping and a large section of the town losing power.
Only cure is for every wind farm to have a rotating NG Turbine spinning away with minimal to no load. Having a NG Generator operating at 80-90% power will work but is dumb. It means that you are getting about 50% of the efficiency that you would get at 100% power. Thus, with every wind farm will require a fossil fuel generator. You have just doubled the cost of having a reliable source of power, and the price of electricity. Worse, your “Green” Wind Farm means that you installed five times the number of Wind Turbines to meet desired service capacity which are still only available 20% of the time.

Mr.
Reply to  usurbrain
October 18, 2021 12:17 pm

Ultimately, reality will demand rationality, and the only known possible solution for non-emitting power generation will emerge as an urgent necessity – nuclear.

kzb
October 18, 2021 11:38 am

What you lot have not figured out in your echo chamber is that EV batteries will take on the role of energy buffer. This is happening already, it is not some fantasy plan that will never happen.
People plug in their cars when they are not being used, dial in the minimum charge level they want, then leave it to the software to add or take from their car battery.
As well as that, retired EV batteries will have a second life as grid batteries.

Mr.
Reply to  kzb
October 18, 2021 12:13 pm

Got a technical study to offer us about this, kzb?

What I’ve been reading is that EV owners are challenged just keeping enough juice to use their own vehicles as & when they need to, let alone saving the rest of their zip code from power shortages.

kzb
Reply to  Mr.
October 18, 2021 2:04 pm

What I hear is the opposite. The average mileage here in Britain is about 20 miles a day. That’s about 8kWh per day, being generous.
If you have a 80kWh battery and you have 50% charge, that’s five times what you need for the following day. So you would be quite happy for your additional 40kWh being used for load balancing. You get paid for it. People are getting free charging for joining in with this.

Mr.
Reply to  kzb
October 18, 2021 4:11 pm

I live in a regional area where people need proper vehicles to go about their business, often clocking up > 100 miles in a day’s errands.

Also, an active earthquake / tsunami threat zone.

We keep our reserves of gas, propane, diesel and charged batteries for the inevitable time they will be called into service.

(That’s more certain than a “climate crisis”)

Dave Fair
Reply to  kzb
October 19, 2021 10:58 am

“… and the chicks are free.”

Reply to  kzb
October 18, 2021 12:27 pm

The fantasy is thinking the plan would ever work. Virtually no one would want to have less than a full charge available whenever they could. You are pretty much asking them to buy a bigger battery than they need, and let the powerco use it.

It is also a fantasy to think batteries from EVs, in use or retired, even with 100% participation, would be more than a drop in the bucket for supplying the electrical needs of a community.

kzb
Reply to  jtom
October 18, 2021 2:07 pm

I don’t agree. People are doing this already. If they only drive a few miles a day why would they want a full charge at all times?

There aren’t enough retired batteries yet, granted, but obviously that pile is only going to grow, and grow massively, in the future.

observa
Reply to  kzb
October 18, 2021 5:48 pm

 If they only drive a few miles a day why would they want a full charge at all times?

Then they’d buy a cheaper EV with a smaller battery unless you think owners buy long range Teslas out of altruism for the future? Or they’d buy a PHEV right now and have the best of both worlds.

Why on earth do net zero fans think it makes economic sense for everyone to drive around larger than required lithium batteries in order to back their unreliables with the grid? Any port in the current storm of their fantasy ship founding on the rocks and we await their jet in knees-up in the tens of thousands in Glasgow with heads shaking.

kzb
Reply to  observa
October 19, 2021 6:14 pm

No-one wants a car with a 20-mile range. There will be occasions when you wish to go further, and on those days you can opt for an 80% charge or whatever. Anyhow, another reason is you get paid for it. People right now are driving round with zero fuel cost because they are signed up to load balancing. Is that not a good incentive?

Dave Fair
Reply to  kzb
October 19, 2021 11:02 am

Luckily, most people are not as technological and economically illiterate as you, kzb.

kzb
Reply to  Dave Fair
October 19, 2021 6:14 pm

You lot on here are in an echo chamber. You need to get out more.

Dave Fair
Reply to  kzb
October 20, 2021 9:53 am

kzb, describe your experience in planning, financing, designing, constructing and operating electrical generation, transmission and distribution systems to serve real residential, commercial and industrial customers. Since I’ve done all that (plus everything from shoveling rabbit shit to making nuclear weapons), how should I “get out more?”

You seem unable to differentiate between marketing hype and serious engineering and economic studies.

rah
October 18, 2021 11:39 am

Looks like a significant strat warming even is to occur over the Arctic towards the beginning of next month. The Brits renewable energy chickens may be coming home to roost a little earlier than expected.

Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
October 18, 2021 11:51 am

“…a new ‘phased timetable and roadmap for peaking carbon emissions.”

Well, obviously the strategy is to increase emissions as fast as practicable to get the peak in 2030 as high as possible, after which it can come down a bit, when suitable, and affordable, and politically expedient. Makes sense, if you are intending to keep the lights on.

peter schell
October 18, 2021 12:48 pm

Huffington post used to have a Canadian branch, until the venture capital funds ran out. I was a regular commenter on blogs that celebrated the death of oil. When pipelines ran into trouble there were people who declaimed that it was a great saving because there was no way an oil pipeline could ever make back its cost.

I was laughed at for suggesting we would see $100 dollar a barrel oil this decade.

Darn I wish Huff.ca still existed so I could go and gloat.

Andrew Dickens
October 18, 2021 2:23 pm

The projected increased demand for all types of energy results from the increase in world population (still over 1% a year, or 80 million extra energy requirers). That’s the real problem.

Abolition Man
October 18, 2021 2:37 pm

Just finished watching Jordan Peterson’s interview of Michael Shellenberger, and it left me thinking that the eco-whack jobs don’t really want to find a solution; they’d rather find fault!
If GangGreen was actually concerned about the environment they would be pushing nuclear and natural gas, as widespread use of those two technologies would substantially reduce CO2! If they wanted to reduce global population, they would support efforts to improve economic opportunities and education in the Third World as a lower birth rate always follows a shift from subsistence farming to urban economic freedom!
One of the biggest reasons for the rapid rise in prosperity around the world should be linked to the fall of the Berlin Wall and the break up of the USSR! That put an end to many of the ideological wars in the Third World, and allowed people to pursue their own goals instead of battling for survival! But the environmental Left doesn’t want to give up it’s dreams of Marxist domination, so they will try and shove collectivism and state control down humanity’s throat regardless of what people do and say! You can see the same desire for domination in the politicization of the ChiCom-19 virus, and the policies used to combat it!
I certainly hope that the line on the graph for unREliables is wishful thinking! Hopefully that recent downtick is just the beginning of the end for this scam, and a return to sane, reliable and energy dense power sources that can power us to a bright, energy rich future! It would be quite tragic if the dark and dismal dreams of the delusional eco-loons were allowed to come to fruition!

William Astley
October 18, 2021 2:40 pm

The green scams do not work… If ‘work’ means the ability to run a country without producing CO2 emissions. Our Countries currently have and need 24/7, 365 days a year electricity.

Spending more money on a plan that cannot work and that has and will make electricity more and more expensive is going to cause economic collapse in German.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/01/business/germany-inflation-eurozone/index.html

German inflation hits 29-year high as energy costs spike across Europe

Germany has spent $500 billion dollars, saturating their electrical grid with intermittent wind and sun gathering, which has tripled the cost of electricity in Germany.

Half of the German intermittent green energy is exported (at a loss) to other EU countries and then Germany buys back at a higher prices, reliable power from nuclear or natural gas.
 
That poor utilization rate means one has to build up huge overcapacities in order to achieve a certain amount of power production. Worse, the power source fluctuates wildly according to weather condition

http://notrickszone.com/2017/02/28/german-electricity-price-projected-to-quadruple-by-2020-to-over-40-cents-per-kilowatt-hour/

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/11/22/shocker-top-google-engineers-say-renewable-energy-simply-wont-work/

“A research effort by Google corporation to make renewable energy viable has been a complete failure, according to the scientists who led the programme. After 4 years of effort, their conclusion is that renewable energy “simply won’t work”.

Ed wolfe
October 18, 2021 2:50 pm

Can anyone find out if block island wind is operating
media black out
last news in August was four of five units down for inspection
thanks

October 20, 2021 3:52 pm

China is lurking behind all facets of the current ENERGY REGRESSION to antiquated wind and solar failed technology. “China sees the threat of climate change as readily manageable regardless of what one believes about the underlying physics (remember that China’s leaders, as opposed to ours, tend to have technical backgrounds).[They are fully cognizant of the debunking of any climate crisis by Dr. Richard Lindzen for example] But they also recognize that climate hysteria in the West leads to policies that clearly benefit China. Indeed, China is actually promoting activities like the Sino-American Youth Dialogue on climate change to promote climate alarm among young American activists.” 

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/china-warming-richard-lindzen

China is the world’s largest manufacturer of wind turbines, solar panels and electric cars, while building massive increase in new coal powered plants. Just saying.

CO2 by country 1e5b2797aa25e26be9539ab6de2bd3a90409b799-1020x649.jpeg