Anti Fossil Fuel Crusader Nick Cohen, walking on a pavement made of fossil fuel. Source The Guardian, fair use, low resolution image to identify the subject.

Guardian: “Climate change deniers are as slippery as those who justified the slave trade”

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

The Guardian is outdoing itself reaching for ridiculous hyperbole, to try to make us care.

Climate change deniers are as slippery as those who justified the slave trade

Nick Cohen
Sun 5 Sep 2021 04.00 AEST

Global warming sceptics should be hiding in corners. But still some defend the indefensible

No one seems as defeated as the global warming “deniers” who dominated rightwing thinking a decade ago. Like late 18th-century opponents of abolishing the slave trade, Lord Lawson and the claque of Conservative cranks who filled the comment pages of the Tory press are remembered today as dangerous fools – assuming they are remembered at all.

The billions of dollars spent by the fossil fuel industry on propaganda and its acceptance by know-nothing elements on the right caused incalculable damage. They might have followed Margaret Thatcher, who warned in 1989 of C02 emissions leading to climate change “more fundamental and more widespread than anything we have known”. The desire of business to protect profits and the vanity of politicians and pundits, who saw themselves as dissidents fighting the consensus rather than fanatics enabling destruction, helped to waste two decades of valuable time.

Every argument they advanced has been disproved, as much by the experience of everyday life as science. Journalists are advised: “If someone says it is raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. Your job is to look out the window and find out which is true.” The world only had to look at the weather outside to know who was trying to fool it.

The comparison isn’t harsh. One day, the attack on climate science will be seen as shocking as the defence of human bondage. Indeed, that day should have long passed. They are overwhelmingly old men or, in the case of Lawson, a very old man. They grew up in a 20th century where the carbon economy was natural: the way the world was and would always be. Slavery was equally natural to the plantation owners and slave traders of Georgian Britain. It had always existed, everywhere on Earth.

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/04/climate-change-deniers-are-as-slippery-as-those-who-justified-the-slave-trade

What I find entertaining about blowhards like Nick Cohen is, from the Guardian picture above, he is obviously utterly surrounded by and dependent upon the products of a fossil fuel civilisation.

Nick walks on roads and pavements made of asphalt or tarmac, a form of long chain polymer plastic derived from crude oil (see picture above), likely heats his home in winter, using you guessed it, and eats food transported by fossil fuel powered vehicles to refrigerated supermarket shelves of plastic, glass and metal, whose temperature and humidity controlled indoor environment is only possible thanks to fossil fuel goodness.

That walking cane you’re using Nick, does not look like a stick you picked up by the roadside. Plastic? Aluminium? Lacquered kiln dried wood, turned to a smooth shape in a fossil fuel driven lathe? I bet there is a rubber or metal footing on the bottom of your stick, rubber vulcanised in a fossil fuel heated mill, with sulphur derived from refining crude oil, or perhaps a steel tip prepared in a blast furnace from ore mixed with coal or natural gas, rolled into a large sheet, then pressed into shape using heavy machinery.

The very clothes Nick is wearing do not look like home spun wool. I’m guessing machine woven cotton, wool and possibly synthetics, which make those high quality business shirts so shiny and wrinkle free, with their beautiful plastic sheen. Have a close look at the buttons on your shirt Nick, ask yourself what they’re made of.

And I’m pretty sure you didn’t write your Guardian article on Roman papyrus, using a bird feather quill pen dipped in oak gall ink. Even if against the odds you did, the people who digitally published your article and who maintain the Guardian website certainly used a lot of high tech fossil fuel derived plastic, silicon and refined metal, not to mention fossil fuel electricity to keep their web servers running 24×7.

All I see is absurdity, when Nick declares the age of fossil fuel is over.

It would all just be funny, if it was only Guardian author Nick Cohen who suffered this delusion.

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Michael in Dublin
September 5, 2021 6:08 pm

I get sick and tired of those like the Guardian who distort the view of those of us who question alarmism and then discredit this strawman. This is blatant slander and deceit. They are not able to argue point for point against our position because their arguments are flawed so they twist our words and lie about us.

Scissor
Reply to  Michael in Dublin
September 5, 2021 6:43 pm

Ironically, industrialization powered by fossil fuels did more to end slavery than any increase in morality.

ATheoK
Reply to  Scissor
September 5, 2021 8:28 pm

Only if you’re counting whale oil.
Coal worked in later steam engines, but before coal it was cut trees that served as fuel in the steam engines.

2hotel9
Reply to  ATheoK
September 6, 2021 4:17 am

True, Industrialization was based on water, wood, then coal. Oil and gas came much later.

Ben Vorlich
Reply to  ATheoK
September 6, 2021 8:43 am

Oil refining might be older than you tink.

There was a time (albeit a very short time) when Scotland was the largest producer of refined oil in the entire world! Unbelievably it even boasted the world’s very first commercial oil refinery. This was all because of one man – James Young.
His major discovery occurred in 1848, while working in the mining industry. Young noticed that oil was leaking from the ceiling of a coal mine. He deduced from this that there must be a way of intentionally extracting oil from coal if you heated it, and it turns out, he was right. Young patented this particular method in 1850 with his partners, Edward Binney and Edward Meldrum. This led to them founding a business in Bathgate that became the first commercial producing oil refinery in the world.
This enterprise used Young’s technique of distilling oil from the locally mined shale or Torbanite (which is known colloquially as bog head coal, bog coal or cannel coal). From these he managed to extract oil and distill it into paraffin, amongst other useful chemicals, which is where he got his nickname.

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofScotland/James-Paraffin-Young/

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Ben Vorlich
September 6, 2021 6:02 pm

1859, first American oil well drilled in Pennsylvania.

https://aoghs.org/petroleum-pioneers/american-oil-history/

Graemethecat
Reply to  Scissor
September 5, 2021 11:53 pm

The founder of the Manchester Guardian (as it was then) made his fortune from slavery in the West Indies.

2hotel9
Reply to  Graemethecat
September 6, 2021 4:11 am

You beat me to it, leftists are all descendants of slave owners and traders, that is the root of their hypocrisy.

Scissor
Reply to  Graemethecat
September 6, 2021 7:05 am

One person’s guardian is another’s master, the former being more politically correct in its keeping slaves imprisoned.

gbaikie
Reply to  Michael in Dublin
September 5, 2021 7:12 pm

Was the Guardian around at that time.
I would tend to think they would have shown up, late,

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  gbaikie
September 5, 2021 11:02 pm

Was the Guardian around at that time.
I would tend to think they would have shown up, late,

And a dollar short

Rich Davis
Reply to  gbaikie
September 6, 2021 9:12 am

The Grauniad was founded in 1821 by John Edward Taylor who was born in 1791. He made his money in the cotton trade. At that time, much of the cotton came from the southern states of the US, made possible by slave labor. It was in fact British (and Northern US) cotton mills’ demand for cotton that resulted in slave populations in the south rising from 700k to 4m between 1790 and 1860.

The Grauniad seems equally concerned about Uighur slave labor making solar panels as their founder was troubled by the source of his cotton bales.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Michael in Dublin
September 5, 2021 8:32 pm

And, attempt to tar and feather us through association with racism. It is hard to get any lower than that!

P M
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
September 6, 2021 12:20 am

The Guardian was formed in 1821 by a cotton mill owner. It campaigned to keep child labour, against universal suffrage and in defence of the southern slave owning states during the American civil war.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8443501/GUY-WALTERS-woke-Guardian-newspaper-founded-fortune-linked-cotton.html
 

Gunga Din
Reply to  P M
September 6, 2021 8:22 am

Sounds like they should “cancel” themselves.

2hotel9
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
September 6, 2021 4:11 am

It is what the racist left always does.

griff
Reply to  Michael in Dublin
September 5, 2021 11:58 pm

I don’t think they need to distort it, do they?

The constant ascribing of the science to ‘leftist’ political attempts to undermine the West?

The weird science in which the greenhouse effect and basic physics are replaced by science akin to that of Victorian notions of perpetual motion?

The quaint idea that one temperature or weather event in 1934 ‘proves’ that a series of temp records and weather events in the last 20 years ‘are just weather’

The constant rubbishing of contrary views with schoolyard insult (I’m looking at you, MarkW’.

The presentation of contradictory theory about warming with no apparent shame – it isn’t warming, an ice age is coming, it is water vapour, it is the sun, it is warming but it will be good for the planet… you can’t believe all of these.

If you want to argue with the science, use science, not 1950s politics, insult, whataboutery and misdirection…

Editor
Reply to  griff
September 6, 2021 12:28 am

griff

you live in a country with very rich weather records which stretch far beyond one weather event in 1934.

we can trace the various climate changes on our uplands with dartmoor for instance illustrating that habitation was higher than today, trees were at a greater altitude, cultivation was higher.

our uplands demonstrate that most of the holocene was warmer than today. do go and read up some of Britain’s climatic history.

I have written numerous articles on the subject but you will find many documents in the Met Office library and archives.

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  tonyb
September 6, 2021 2:51 am

Griff cannot learn from error, psychopaths can’t, either…

Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  Chaswarnertoo
September 6, 2021 9:01 pm

Now now. Griff is just set in his ways.

Mark
Reply to  griff
September 6, 2021 12:32 am

Indeed……

Did you read Judith Curry’s piece yesterday …..?

LdB
Reply to  griff
September 6, 2021 1:09 am

You mean the constant dribble with no facts (I am looking at you Griff).

Michael in Dublin
Reply to  griff
September 6, 2021 1:43 am

Griff

Thank you for perfectly illustrating my point by your strawmen arguments. If you have carefully read my comments on this site you will know that I believe it is a fool’s errand to think we can engineer the perfect climate for each different climate zone. Where is there any scientific backing for this?

We may want to play God but four thousand years of recorded history provide ample proof that we cannot. However, there is much proof that our ancestors have time and again adapted to living with and thriving despite adverse weather conditions. History and empirical observations are a far safer guide than a spate of computer models produced in a lab. That is why I find TonyB credible because I can check and confirm his observations while I cannot reproduce any single “climate model” which are characterized by their considerable variations rather than agreement – all supposedly working with the same data.

Strawmen, red herrings and the clear politicizing of climate discussion do not contribute to cogent and cohesive arguments.

Last edited 1 year ago by Michael in Dublin
aussiecol
Reply to  griff
September 6, 2021 3:18 am

I think griff is just Nick Cohen’s alter ego.

fretslider
Reply to  griff
September 6, 2021 3:58 am

If you want to argue with the science

The science, griff? That looks like a Freudian slip to me, inappropriate use of the ‘definite’ article.

There is science, but it isn’t definite or settled; especially where your busted AGW hypothesis is concerned.

Graemethecat
Reply to  fretslider
September 6, 2021 5:29 am

Strange, isn’t it? Leftists always talk about “The Science”, whereas those who actually understand logic, falsification, and the scientific method refer to “Science”.

Ben Vorlich
Reply to  Graemethecat
September 6, 2021 8:47 am

All politicians are followig “The Science”, well in the UK they are anyway

Rich Davis
Reply to  Ben Vorlich
September 6, 2021 9:37 am

The Science ™

Lrp
Reply to  Graemethecat
September 6, 2021 11:21 am

The Science is like a god to our Marxist friends, a god they hope will strike us unbelievers down.

2hotel9
Reply to  griff
September 6, 2021 4:12 am

Wow, the same lies spewed by the same lie spewing liar. How,,,typical.

Richard Page
Reply to  griff
September 6, 2021 5:25 am

Oh Griffy – every time we try to discuss reality and genuine scientific research you retort with claims of ‘the science’ – claims which are unsound and deeply rooted in delusional wishful thinking and pure fantasy. You are the fantasies, placing this concept of ‘the science’ on a pedestal like some religious icon or totem. You and people like you have become the problem, don’t you see? Your blind, religious faith in this totem is utterly delusional, irrational and extremely dangerous.

MarkW
Reply to  griff
September 6, 2021 5:57 am

It’s not just one prior weather event, it’s hundreds of the going back hundreds of years.

The fact that the vast majority of those pushing this scam are politically left to far left is only in dispute by those who’s intent is to disguise the motives of those pushing this scam.

If you think that calling your scam a scam qualifies as a school yard insult, then you have never been in a school yard.

I also notice how griff completely ignores the fact that he and his fellow trolls constantly resort in insults when they run short on facts.

Lrp
Reply to  MarkW
September 6, 2021 11:27 am

Griff’s mind has already dealt with this contradiction. The past extreme weather events were due to nature whereas the present ones are due to human CO2 emissions, specifically humans from western countries. That’s what his science says

Sara
Reply to  griff
September 6, 2021 6:12 am

Okay, Griffypoo, before you go any more dysphoric, please state your objection to having a warm planet to live on.

Having been through several decades in which there was at least one, and frequently three, blizzard events, I can truly say that a cold climate is not my idea of a good time. And by COLD, I mean well below 32F/0C on a prolonged basis.

Also, please provide your size in relation to the rest of the planet’s size. Attempting to find someone from a long distance, such as the Moon, is difficulty if not impossible. It’s the likely reason that we have yet to find any other civilizations on planets far, far away.

While I realize that it’s difficult to sort out the wankers like Nick Cohen (all talk, no compliance) from the real science people, you’re ignoring the political scam that is underway. Now do you really, really want to be told how to run your life by someone like that jerk? Or any one of a number of power-hungry political animals?

Do you? Think about it for a minute.

I’ll give you a valid reason for NOT relying on any kind of wind or solar-driven power sources, so please pay attention. My own experience, having lived in my little house on the hilltop since 2005, is that in BAD weather, e.g., blizzards, the power grid has failed repeatedly because the source (solar and wind) shut off in bad weather. The solar panels get covered with thick snow, which becomes ice, and the wind turbines stop turning. PERIOD. Two winters ago, we had an outage that affected the entire northeastern section of my state for THREE EFFING DAYS in the middle of a very cold winter. Not my idea of a good time, since my furnace won’t run if the power fails. And no, I do not have a fireplace.

The only thing that kept me going was my gas stove, which is so old it has strikers in the burners, and I can light the burners with MATCHES if the power goes out, because the gas valves will open, regardless. More modern gas stoves won’t do that. My unfortunate neighbors didn’t even have that benefit.

You try going three days with no heat or light in the middle of winter and tell me just how much fun it is, since you will NOT be allowed to burn anything in your fireplace to cook or keep warm.

I’m really concerned that you’re spending far too much energy on sulking and not enough enjoying the Great Outdoors. Please take your vitamins and wear a belt with your trousers. If you enjoy being cold as all get-out in the winter, that should be included.

Geez, I’m worried about you…..

MarkW
Reply to  griff
September 6, 2021 7:54 am

The presentation of contradictory theory about warming with no apparent shame – it isn’t warming, an ice age is coming, it is water vapour, it is the sun, it is warming but it will be good for the planet… you can’t believe all of these.

Poor griffie, he actually believes that there is some controlling authority that informs all of us skeptics what we are supposed to believe.

To him, the fact that different skeptics have different opinions on the subject actually proves that skeptics must be wrong. All true socialists know that the government decides what is best and the myrmidons do what they are told. Because that’s how he lives his life.

Worse, most of the things in his list aren’t even contradictory.
You can believe that it isn’t warming now and that an ice age is coming, because both can easily be true.
You can believe that both water vapor and the sun play a bigger role than does CO2, without being a hypocrite.
You can believe that an ice age is coming and that warming is good for the planet without contradicting yourself.

Neo
Reply to  MarkW
September 6, 2021 8:04 am

You can scream “Summer Is Coming” at 4AM on any day and it is still accurate, perhaps annoying, but accurate

Last edited 1 year ago by Neo
Gunga Din
Reply to  griff
September 6, 2021 8:52 am

The quaint idea that one temperature or weather event in 1934 ‘proves’ that a series of temp records and weather events in the last 20 years ‘are just weather’

I have six lists of record highs and lows for my little spot on the globe. Five of them were copied at the time they were listed starting in 2007. (I used TheWayBackMachine to get the list from 2002.)
Interesting to see how often more recent “record” highs for a given day are lower than previous record highs for the same day. Lots of “adjusting” going on.
And that’s just for one little spot on the globe.
What has Hansen and Gavin Schmidt done to past records for the globe (GISS)?

Richard S Courtney
Reply to  griff
September 6, 2021 9:17 am

Griff,
You could not be more wrong when you say,

The quaint idea that one temperature or weather event in 1934 ‘proves’ that a series of temp records and weather events in the last 20 years ‘are just weather’”

Science says it has to be assumed recent weather has the same cause as similar previous weather in the Holocene. This is because the scientific Null Hypothesis decrees that a system has not changed in the absence of evidence for the change.
The scientific Null Hypothesis is a tenet of the scientific method and derives from the principle of parsempirical imony (sometimes called ‘Occams’ Razor’), and it decrees that an effect should not be assumed to exist in the absence of physical evidence for its existence.
The scientific Null Hypothesis should not be confused with the null hypotheses used by statisticians and its importance cannot be overstated. It is the basis of all experimental procedure. Indeed, modern physics exists because it had to be assumed the ether did not exist when an effect of the ether was not discerned by the ‘Michelson & Morley Experiment’.
So, the fact that no recent weather event is unprecedented in the Holocene is sufficient for the scientific method to reject an assumption that discernible global climate change exists as a result human activity. But that is science and advocates of anthropogenic (i.e. human induced) global warming (AGW) are certain of their superstition which they pretend is not rejected by science,
Richard

Richard S Courtney
Reply to  Richard S Courtney
September 6, 2021 9:18 am

oops Should be ‘principle of parsimony’. Sorry

Lrp
Reply to  griff
September 6, 2021 11:17 am

Are you using science griff when you prattle about weather events as being the result of CO2 increase? You have never substantiated any of your claims, and here you are again reducing the quest to understanding climate to “simple physics”.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  griff
September 7, 2021 4:27 pm

The quaint idea that one temperature or weather event in 1934 …

The idea that there was a single event in 1934 that was responsible for considering the ’30s as a period of hot weather is right up there with the idea held by Biden that tornadoes are no longer called that. However, in your case, I think that you are lying.

The attached annual Heat Wave Index graphic is from the US EPA website:

clip_image002-1[1].jpg
Tom Halla
September 5, 2021 6:15 pm

My issue is that people like Nick Cohen use a complex question form of argument.
Sure, it is warmer than 1850, which was the end of the Little Ice Age. Is that a bad thing?
Human produced CO2 may be involved in that warming, but the models have not improved on the Charney Report estimate of effect in 1978, which has a three hundred percent range in the estimated effect. Not quite the sort of precision one wants to do engineering, particularly as Charney probably overestimated the effect.
So Cohen stretches some level of agreement on warming into buying into a jihad against fossil fuels, as any measurable warming is intolerable and will cause all sorts of bad things which have yet to actually occur.
Perhaps psychological counseling, or various other treatments for delusional behavior might help him.

Barry James
Reply to  Tom Halla
September 5, 2021 9:46 pm

Pre frontal lobotomy was developed for his condition wasn’t it? Debunking his science would have been a better option if he had espoused any, so an ad hominem response to his ad hominem is the only option left.

michael hart
Reply to  Tom Halla
September 6, 2021 4:24 am

I think the problem starts with poor maths education. Many people (like Cohen) are simply not able to spot obvious errors and deceits because they don’t have the tools to answer basic back-of-a-postcard questions, and therefore don’t even ask themselves the questions.

Jamaica
September 5, 2021 6:17 pm

lenses might be hi def plastic, too.

ATheoK
Reply to  Jamaica
September 5, 2021 8:01 pm

“Hi def”?

Plastic eyeglass lenses are made from polycarbonate or a similar CR-39 plastic.

High density plastics tend to be polyethylene or Teflon.

Your observation is correct as those glasses in the picture are most likely plastic.
If not, then they’re glass which requires large amounts of fossil fuels to melt, form, grind and polish lenses.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  ATheoK
September 5, 2021 9:36 pm

They could be actual tortoise shell from an endangered sea turtle … with glass lenses requiring high, sustained temperatures and a whole mining industry to supply the necessary fusible minerals.

ATheoK
Reply to  Rory Forbes
September 6, 2021 3:57 am

As you accurately portray Rory Forbes.

Tortoise shell was used for eyeglass frames. Glass was/is used for lenses.

Tortoise shell provides beautiful items where we now depend on plastic, eyeglass frames, knife handles, razor handles, jewelry boxes, boxes, handles, etc.

Like today’s plastics, heat and sometimes a little moisture allowed artisans to mold the shell into desired shapes.

Eyeglass lenses were glass for hundreds of years though not often a high clarity type of glass.

A few countries had glass industries capable of consistently producing quality glass with high clarity and preferable index of refraction. Usable for eyeglasses or telescopes. These industries ability to produce high quality glass were treated as state/industrial secrets, both then and now.

  • e.g. Galileo’s lenses for his telescope would be discarded today as discolored imperfect glass (bubbles and grain variations).

Even so, if his eyeglass frames are tortoise shell, it required fossil fuels to power equipment to thin/polish the shell to desired thickness, provide heat to shape the shell, and to smelt, refine and turn any metal fittings needed for hinges and pince nez nose pinch springs.

Practically every part, item, aid that Cohen is, has or uses is derived from fossil fuels or fossil fuel run equipment. He is a hypocrite of the first order.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  ATheoK
September 6, 2021 9:34 am

He is a hypocrite of the first order.

And he is either unaware of the extent of how hypocritical he is, or doesn’t care, which makes him a cynical hypocrite (a politician).

Last edited 1 year ago by Rory Forbes
layor nala
September 5, 2021 6:21 pm

You only have to look at his Twitter a/c to see that not many bother about his irrational (and unscientific outbursts. I wonder if he has read this statement:

William Nordhaus received the Nobel Prize in Economics in 2018 for his work on the economics of climate change (The Nobel Prize, 2018). In his Nobel Lecture he questions the idea that humans should try to reduce GHG emissions enough to keep temperatures below two degrees above the Little Ice Age or the preindustrial period. Doing so, he calculates, will cost $30 trillion more than is saved. To limit warming to 1.5 degrees would cost $50 trillion. The total world GDP in 2020 was only $85 trillion. His optimum economic path is to allow four degrees of global warming (Nordhaus, 2018). 

Julian Flood
Reply to  layor nala
September 5, 2021 6:51 pm

‘Allow four degrees? What control knob does he inte to use?

JF

H B
Reply to  Julian Flood
September 5, 2021 10:41 pm

4 degrees is never going to happen and everyone knows so no control nob required

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  H B
September 6, 2021 3:03 am

Even burning all the fossil fuels available to us will put CO2 up to less than the ideal (for food growth) 1000ppm, so less than 2 degrees C warming Max. Maybe much less.

Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  layor nala
September 6, 2021 9:04 pm

It assumes we can control the climate. We can’t, it’s a delusion.

Sweet Old Bob
September 5, 2021 6:22 pm

“Climate change deniers are as slippery as those who justified the slave trade”
They are Democrats ?

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  Sweet Old Bob
September 6, 2021 2:51 am

Demonrats.

September 5, 2021 6:30 pm

Judging by the photo I’m afraid that Nick looks just like an old man, maybe even one of his very old men!

commieBob
Reply to  Alastair Brickell
September 5, 2021 7:45 pm

OMG! I thought that was a picture of one of those slippery climate deniers being held up for public ridicule. It was an honest mistake. Here he is hobbling along in the opposite direction as everyone else, not watching where he’s going, sure to be mowed down by some dowager with a shopping cart full of her worldly possessions. Oh the huge manatee.

Patrick MJD
September 5, 2021 6:33 pm

Guardian author Nick Cohen hasn’t a clue what he’s talking about, especially the slave trade.

Dennis
Reply to  Patrick MJD
September 5, 2021 7:53 pm

He should visit the west coast of Africa and learn about the slave traders who were well established before the Roman Empire colonised, Africans who enslaved Africans and who in later times supplied slaves to buyers in America, and many other countries.

I watched a documentary covering a family of Americans of African ancestry who travelled to the homeland of their ancestors and were visibly shocked when they learnt that Africans were the slave kidnapping traders.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Dennis
September 5, 2021 9:44 pm

There was a long line of slavers, from the forests of Africa to their final destination in the Americas. By the time they arrived in the North American colonies, a slave might have passed through several owners at least four countries and up to three or more generations. It was rare for the US to receive slaves directly from Africa.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Rory Forbes
September 5, 2021 10:54 pm

True.

eo
Reply to  Dennis
September 5, 2021 9:50 pm

Razzia —is an elaborate ceremony in Africa long before the Romans period.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  eo
September 5, 2021 10:55 pm

True.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Dennis
September 5, 2021 10:54 pm

I have strong ties to Africa and what you say is true.

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  Dennis
September 6, 2021 2:59 am

HMS Black Joke.

SMC
September 5, 2021 6:39 pm

After Xiden’s recent disasters, as well as the economic ones waiting in the wings, the Leftists are trying to ramp up the rhetoric in an attempt to distract folks from the Leftists failures. I think people are getting wise too, and tired of the BS.

Thomas Gasloli
September 5, 2021 6:41 pm

If you truncate his statement it ends up telling a truth: “Climate science will be seen as shocking as the defense of human bondage.” After all it is the climate hysterics who want to control and impoverish us all.

September 5, 2021 6:48 pm

It is past time…Dewindmillize…..and Desolarpanelize NOW! Stop the subsidies for this expensive wasteful unreliable green rubbish. They are “pretenders” who rush into tearing down what is working based on a lie that man made CO2 is warming the planet.

Last edited 1 year ago by Anti-griff
Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Anti-griff
September 5, 2021 8:35 pm

“Dewindmillize” Is that a German word? 🙂

Reply to  Clyde Spencer
September 6, 2021 7:19 am

No 😀

Julian Flood
Reply to  Anti-griff
September 5, 2021 11:23 pm

Tax the wind farms retrospectively. It was good enough for oil companies.

JF

Julian Flood
September 5, 2021 6:49 pm

It’s surprising how many of the political incompetents who rise to influential positions in the UK share the same education, Oxford PPE. While a degree entitled Philosophy, Politics and Economics might be expected to be useful in government this turns out to be rarely the case. Instead it gives a sense of entitlement and the ability to sound plausible. The only exception I’ve seen to this rule is, IIRC Andrew Neil, the media commentator.

People like Mr Cohen deserve a label of their own. They know nothing of the science that they decry but talk of climate deniers. Gullibles?

JF

Reply to  Julian Flood
September 5, 2021 9:07 pm

Just a couple of days ago I was invited to debate at the Oxford Union the proposition: “This House had enough of PPE.” (I took PPE at Oxford in 1984-87.) It seems lots of people see British politicians with this degree and so it’s tainted by association! Although I was good at it, I dropped the “E” quickly because it was approached as a mathematical modeling exercise with no contact with reality. (Not unlike most climate modeling).

Yes, such a degree should be useful in government, but nothing works well when put into a government. Don’t judge the rest of us PPE graduates who fight for free markets and against climate catastrophism.

Julian Flood
Reply to  Max More
September 5, 2021 11:32 pm

Why doesn’t it work in government? My MP was Minister for Energy and Climate Change and managed so badly we got within two weeks of power cuts. And he then supervised the NHS PPE shortages.

Maybe there’s a mismatch between the skill sets.

JF

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  Julian Flood
September 6, 2021 2:53 am

Piss Poor Education.

Gerry, England
Reply to  Julian Flood
September 8, 2021 4:57 am

It just goes to show that a degree doesn’t stop you being incompetent. And in the PM’s case, a lying incompetent.

n.n
September 5, 2021 7:05 pm

Slavery, diversity, and the wicked solution. Speaking truth through projection.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  n.n
September 5, 2021 9:48 pm

Then there is the hallmark of a Democrat … ‘confession through projection’. You know exactly what they’re going to do or have done by what they accuse others of doing. Example: blaming Trump for nefarious ties to Russia and the Ukraine. It isn’t a matter of discovering their lies. The hard part with Democrats is detecting their rare truths.

Last edited 1 year ago by Rory Forbes
September 5, 2021 7:14 pm

Well, they should know…

MarkW
September 5, 2021 7:32 pm

It’s not so much that they are trying to make us care. It’s more that socialists view all those who disagree with them as evil. Once they define one as evil, it really doesn’t matter which type of evil you believe them.
Hence denying catastrophic climate change is no different from justifying slavery.
Of course once they have defined all those who disagree with them as evil, it’s a small step to justify killing them.

CD in Wisconsin
September 5, 2021 7:33 pm

“The desire of business to protect profits and the vanity of politicians and pundits, who saw themselves as dissidents fighting the consensus rather than fanatics enabling destruction, helped to waste two decades of valuable time.”

***************

Nick, it must be terribly frustrating going through life being so bitter at so many people in the world around you. Surely you must foresee a doomed world due to its unwillingness to bend to your will.

The difference between you and Adolf Hitler is that, unlike you, Hitler was able to rise to power and take action against everyone in the world against whom he had a grudge. The end result was pretty devastating, wasn’t it Nick?. If you never see the opportunity to act on your grudges against others before being laid to rest, I will be forever grateful. Please do the world a huge favor and confine your bitterness and frustration to the pages of The Guardian. Thank you.

And Nick, the climate scare narrative is about 33 years old now, not just two decades.

ATheoK
September 5, 2021 7:36 pm

Climate change deniers are as slippery as those who justified the slave trade”

You mean the British and later, the Democrats?

Nick walks on roads and pavements made of asphalt or tarmac, a form of long chain polymer plastic derived from crude oil”

He’s wearing shoes walking on that tarmac. Even if he’s wearing all leather shoes (unlikely) they’re made using leather cures, cured oiled dyed and waxed using fossil fuels.

No fossil fuels? No shoes for the pathetic opinion writer. Let alone a writer for a newspaper utterly dependent upon fossil fuels to run the newspaper and web publishing business.

Last edited 1 year ago by ATheoK
Craig from Oz
Reply to  ATheoK
September 5, 2021 8:34 pm

You mean the British and later, the Democrats?

The thing about people of the left and ethics is that many of them lack the self awareness to believe they are part of the problem. Here in Oz we had the leader of The Greens get called out a few years ago for under paying his live in nanny and her boyfriend (who I believe worked as a casual labourer). The justification was that they were considered ‘part of the family’ and hence not, one assumes, locked in a hut at night and beaten with sticks.

They were ‘Nice’ to them and treated them ‘Kindly’ therefore there was no wrong… except for the fact you were blatantly under paying them.

There is/was a similar argument that keeping a slave was actually doing them a favour as it gave them a better life and it was not as if the slaves were being beaten and made to work in the field and if we didn’t own the slave a meaner person may have ended up owning them instead. So it was all good, cause they were NICE slave owners.

The other point is the British developed ethical concerns on the topic of human owners a LOT earlier than many other parts of the world. I believe (open to correction) that for purely ethical reasons they ended slavery in the 1830s and then spent most of the next 80 years spending large amounts of their own money deploying the Royal Navy to help enforce their views on human trafficking.

Given the fact that the size and power of the Royal Navy in the Victorian Era had a lot to do with the size and power of British (coal powered) industry, it could be argued that Coal not only ended the need of human (read – slave) labour, but also allowed the physical trafficking to be crushed.

All Hail Coal. Destroyer of Slavery.

ATheoK
Reply to  Craig from Oz
September 6, 2021 4:32 am

Craig, correct, in part.

Spanish Conquistadors enslaved indigent populations. Then when the enslaved indigents were not sufficient for the task, the Spanish imported slaves.

The French, Dutch and English anxious to counter Spanish new world holdings and plunder.

Dutch and French quickly lost ground in new world holdings with the Dutch focusing on the far east.

The English, perhaps by greater influx of new world colonists controlled more and more of the North America new world.

Because England was a manufacturing center they required greater amounts of raw products. To that end, it was normally unlawful for colonists to “produce” finished items. Only in deep backwoods areas were colonists able to establish cottage industries

To fuel this manufacturing economic engine England sought to increase raw goods production, e.g. cotton.
At that time picking and cleaning cotton was extremely laborious.
So, England began wholesale importation of slaves in precolonial America.

This substantial flow of slaves into America continued until England’s non-monarchy leaders decided slavery was wrong and passed laws against slavery.

Nor were the English picky about who or where they obtained slaves. Of course, where slaves are cheapest and plentiful is the first option.
The second option centered on conquered and convicted peoples.

To that end, I learned about conquered soldiers being enslaved when I tracked one of my family lines back to a Scottish Prisoner of War, from Culloden I believe.

Britain had decided that captured soldiers could provide benefit for their imprisonment. A number served out their slavery in England. Some were sent. after a few years toiling in England, to the American Colonies.
The rest were sent to Australia where I assume they got similar treatment.

My ancestor was granted freedom after seven years of slavery. He stayed in America and is one of the Scotsmen in my ancestry.

Then there is the issue of the Royal Navy, always short of experienced sailors, would stop and board vessels. Anyone that the British decided had an English accent, English name, or whatever the Royal Navy decided was cause to believe they came from the United Kingdom was cause to impress the sailor on forced servitude on a Royal Navy ship.

That was one of the causes for our war of 1812.

This was a practice carried out by the Royal Navy well after 1812. Technically, England agreed not to impress American sailors, but they still did board and impress sailors occasionally, just not rampantly.

Australia was a favorite place for England to send prisoners of war and persons convicted of one crime or another, including debt. Murderers were usually given terminal treatment, it was for lesser crimes that so many were sent to Australia.

England’s alleged humanity took a dang long time to appear which does not forgive England their earlier inhumanity.

Nor is it a surprise that so many pirate ships were manned by slaves. Pirates took particular pleasure preying on Spanish, French and English vessels where captured slaves often joined the pirates keeping the pirate ships well manned.

Richard Page
Reply to  ATheoK
September 6, 2021 5:38 am

Wow. That’s mixing a lot up into a small area. My family were also victims of transportation, but eventually made it back to the UK – it was a popular form of slavery before Africa was used as a source of slaves. It helps prove the point that slavery has never been about the colour of the skin but is a crime perpetrated by the rich and powerful against the poor and powerless. In actual fact, if you go back far enough, every group of people have practiced slavery at some point.

ATheoK
Reply to  Richard Page
September 6, 2021 6:41 am

True! All true!
Most of England’s actual advancement against slavery was recognizing the institutions within England that were actually forms of slavery.

Mining, prisoners of war, child labor, etc. were all dealt with by British legislation one by one from the late 1700s through the 1800s. Each act advanced individual freedoms and freed a subpopulation from tyranny.

Rich Davis
Reply to  ATheoK
September 6, 2021 10:28 am

ATheoK,
It was actually the invention of the cotton gin in 1793 by Connecticut resident Eli Whitney that fueled a rapid increase in the slave population of the southern US states. Until that time, cotton was an unprofitable commodity due to the extreme difficulty of removing seeds from the cotton bolls. Slave populations rose from about 700k in 1790 to 4m in 1860, largely due to the boom in King Cotton made possible by the cotton gin.

ATheoK
Reply to  Rich Davis
September 6, 2021 8:06 pm

Importation of slaves was made illegal in 1808.
Leaving only 15 years for massive slave purchases and importations.

Nothing is profitable if slavery is required to earn any profit.

There Whitney quickly learned that Southern planters were in desperate need of a way to make the growing of cotton profitable. Long-staple cotton, which was easy to separate from its seeds, could be grown only along the coast.”

If you check the map, there are immense tracts of land along the Atlantic and Gulf coasts.

The problem arose when growing cotton inland.

The one variety that grew inland had sticky green seeds that were time-consuming to pick out of the fluffy white cotton bolls.”

I can vouch for those cotton seeds to be tightly attached to many cotton fibers and require brute force to remove.

However, every fiber goes through a carding process. Carding is meant to align the fibers in preparation for spinning. As such, cards have fine teeth which are not meant to remove cotton seeds from cotton bolls.

Eli’s machine utilized teeth strong enough to remove cotton seeds.

“Whitney put aside his plans to study law and instead tinkered throughout the winter and spring in a secret workshop provided by Catherine Greene. Within months he created the cotton gin. A small gin could be hand-cranked; larger versions could be harnessed to a horse or driven by water power. “One man and a horse will do more than fifty men with the old machines,” wrote Whitney to his father…”

Note Eli’s reference to existing machines. Manually operated cards with teeth strong enough to remove cotton seeds.
Eli’s machine was not invented where no other machine existed to do the job.

“Farmers throughout Georgia resented having to go to Whitney’s gins where they had to pay what they regarded as an exorbitant tax. Instead planters began making their own versions of Whitney’s gin and claiming they were “new” inventions. Miller brought costly suits against the owners of these pirated versions but because of a loophole in the wording of the 1793 patent act, they were unable to win any suits until 1800, when the law was changed.”

“After the invention of the cotton gin, the yield of raw cotton doubled each decade after 1800. Demand was fueled by other inventions of the Industrial Revolution, such as the machines to spin and weave it and the steamboat to transport it. By mid century America was growing three-quarters of the world’s supply of cotton, most of it shipped to England or New England where it was manufactured into cloth.”

“However, like many inventors, Whitney (who died in 1825) could not have foreseen the ways in which his invention would change society for the worse. The most significant of these was the growth of slavery. While it was true that the cotton gin reduced the labor of removing seeds, it did not reduce the need for slaves to grow and pick the cotton. In fact, the opposite occurred. Cotton growing became so profitable for the planters that it greatly increased their demand for both land and slave labor. In 1790 there were six slave states; in 1860 there were 15. From 1790 until Congress banned the importation of slaves from Africa in 1808, Southerners imported 80,000 Africans. By 1860 approximately one in three Southerners was a slave.

The rest of the increase in slaves was from population growth, not importation of slaves from Africa.

ATheoK
Reply to  Craig from Oz
September 6, 2021 5:07 am

About England and coal.

As far as I know, coal usage in the UK was primarily for heating until the 1800s when more machinery and furnaces were stoked with coal. In London, coal was used to generate coal gas for lighting.

Coal stoked furnaces produced better iron and steel. This served as the real engine behind the industrial revolution; better steels, better iron castings made for better more reliable more powerful engines.

In 1842 a UK Royal Commission was established to look into child labour conditions in the rapidly expanding coal industry.

Many young boys would start employment at 8-10 years old, opening and closing doors within the pit for wagons for 8—12 hours a day (with a half hour break for breakfast & another half hour for dinner), 6 days a week. Children under 13 represented ~10% of mining employment, with earnings starting at 3 shillings per week (~£20 in 2012 money). Employers discouraged labour from children of 6-7 years old, but would not prevent it when their parents took them to work, insisting that they earn a wage for the family. From ~13 years old door boys would move on to Hodding, or pulling the coal carts, often in extremely cramped and difficult conditions.  http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/literature/royalcommissionreports/index.html

Still, whale oil served for light in wealthier homes and Clipper Ships moved tonnage on the seas into the 1890s.

In London and I presume a few other English cities, coal was used to generate coal gas which was then used for lighting. Many of London’s gas lamps are still in use.

Unless there were massive pipe emplacements, all rural homes needed other types of fuel for lamps.

pigs_in_space
Reply to  Craig from Oz
September 6, 2021 5:21 am

Newspeak in Russia today has evolved into
“gulag was a ticket to a better life”.
I kid you not!

So your:- quote is charitable by comparison!

“They were ‘Nice’ to them and treated them ‘Kindly’ therefore there was no wrong… except for the fact you were blatantly under paying them……..
There is/was a similar argument that keeping a slave was actually doing them a favour as it gave them a better life and it was not as if the slaves were being beaten and made to work in the field”

Reply to  ATheoK
September 5, 2021 9:10 pm

Yes, the British justified slavery just like almost all other cultures. But be fair, the British were also the first major power to abolish it. Even before the USA. That early social advance is not an accident — the US constitution evolved from British political philosophy.

Last edited 1 year ago by Max More
ATheoK
Reply to  Max More
September 6, 2021 5:20 am

Yes and no.
To get the United States Constitution passed, the northern states had to accede to the southern states on slavery. It was quite contentious.

Slavery was outlawed in the northern states by their state Constitutions from the period immediately after 1779.

Which is why there was an underground railroad conveying slaves to the north. Once across the state border, they were no longer slaves.

This preceded Britain recognizing that slavery was inhuman by decades.

This matter became so important that during the American Civil War, President Lincoln abolished slavery. As defeated Confederate states rejoined the Union, they gave up any rights to hold humans as slaves.

Again, this was a forceful elimination of slavery, not just recognition of slavery’s inhumanity.

America’s Constitution has many lessons from the United Kingdom’s misuse of power. It also has lessons from the French and other democracies and monarchies.

It took England hundreds of years to finally force a monarch to sign the Magna Carta. That document along with a number of subsequent documents formed the seed for individual freedoms. Most of which were not granted to the ordinary English citizen, but only to the higher classes.

All lessons for the founders of the United States of America declaration on Independence and Constitution.

It’s a shame that rights granted under the Magna Carta are no longer considered rights for United Kingdom citizens. Centuries of individual freedoms and rights have been eliminated in the United Kingdom.

Julian Flood
Reply to  ATheoK
September 5, 2021 11:38 pm

The RN was largely responsible for ending the West Coast slave trade. The Democratic Party not so much.

JF

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  Julian Flood
September 6, 2021 3:07 am

West Africa squadron. The Barbary pirates took American slaves in C19.

Richard Page
Reply to  Chaswarnertoo
September 6, 2021 5:46 am

The Barbary pirates took American ships passing through the Mediterranean – they never made it all the way to America. They raided the European coasts as far as Southern Britain and through into the Black sea coast. They are estimated to have taken 1-1.5 million European’s as slaves and around 700 Americans.

ATheoK
Reply to  Julian Flood
September 6, 2021 5:34 am

(1808) AN ACT TO PROHIBIT THE IMPORTATION OF SLAVES INTO ANY PORT OR PLACE WITHIN THE JURISDICTION OF THE UNITED STATES”

The ban on congressional action to stop slave importation was in effect until 1808. As that year approached, President Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826; served 1801–9) began encouraging the nation to prohibit slave importation permanently.”

All the British Navy accomplished was to interdict slave smuggling. Importation into the United States was already illegal by 1808.

Again, N.B., the Royal Navy frequently intercepted American ships and impressed any/all sailors they thought were from England.

Impressing sailors is not any different from enslavement of sailors!

DaveS
Reply to  ATheoK
September 6, 2021 9:59 am

Scottish coal- and salt-miners were effectively slaves for much of the 17th and 18th centuries. A change to the law in the 1770s that stopped miners being the property of mine owners was initially not retrospective – it took until the 1790s for all miners to be legally free men.

ATheoK
Reply to  DaveS
September 6, 2021 8:14 pm

Yes!
Accurately summarized.
Except the miners/salters employment conditions and dangers did not substantially improve for years.

However, as each virtually enslaved work situation improved whether by act of legislation, union negotiation or employer enlightenment, conditions improved for all.

America benefited as many disgruntled workers, e.g. skilled miners, tanners, foundry workers, etc. migrated to the USA.

markl
September 5, 2021 7:54 pm

When you can’t convince with facts you resort to slander, slime, and lies.

Mark Kaiser
September 5, 2021 7:58 pm

Global warming sceptics should be hiding in corners. But still some defend the indefensible…

They are overwhelmingly old men…

I often see this type of logic. Attack your target a la Saul Alinsky style forgetting that your insult applies to yourself as well.

Nick Cohen is 60 years old.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Cohen

Craig from Oz
Reply to  Mark Kaiser
September 5, 2021 8:36 pm

60?

He hasn’t aged well. I would have guessed older.

Scissor
Reply to  Craig from Oz
September 5, 2021 8:48 pm

I would have guessed early to mid 70’s. I guess climate change was not very kind to him.

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  Craig from Oz
September 6, 2021 2:54 am

The evil shows through.

Teddy Lee
Reply to  Mark Kaiser
September 6, 2021 8:34 am

He should know better

lee
September 5, 2021 8:47 pm

““If someone says it is raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. Your job is to look out the window and find out which is true.””

That depends entirely on the location, time etc.

Michael in Dublin
Reply to  lee
September 6, 2021 3:56 am

Lee

This is precisely why we need context. We need complete primary sources. An unnamed source is worthless. Even quoting someone or a document without the reader/hearer being able to go and check the journalist is worthless. It often happens that you can listen to an address and then read a report on it and the two are at complete odds.

Over fifty years ago I was involved in my first and last public protest. The three main city newspapers reported on the event. The “conservative” newspaper got some of the details correct but the “liberal” papers were not even able to accurately name who was behind this student protest. I have been a media sceptic ever since.

September 5, 2021 8:48 pm

And as slippery as those who denied the ozone hole crisis?

https://wp.me/pTN8Y-5Uq

September 5, 2021 8:49 pm

I dislike climate change deniers, too. Of course I mean people who deny that the climate changes regardless of what humans do (and before there were humans).

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  Max More
September 6, 2021 3:05 am

Call me when there are hippos in the Thames, like when the Neanderthals were around. With their jet planes and V8s, the damn fools…

Richard Page
Reply to  Chaswarnertoo
September 6, 2021 5:49 am

No hippos but they recently found that about 2,500 seals have made their home in the Thames.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Richard Page
September 6, 2021 10:46 am

Probably forced to migrate there due to the exploding polar bear population in the Arctic.

Richard Page
Reply to  Rich Davis
September 6, 2021 5:26 pm

Different type of seals – I doubt we’ll see Polar Bears following them and setting up home there – it would certainly liven up London life though!

Craig from Oz
September 5, 2021 8:52 pm

“If someone says it is raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. Your job is to look out the window and find out which is true.” The world only had to look at the weather outside to know who was trying to fool it.

Actually, you are claim to be reporting the news it IS your job to quote both. You are providing you readers/viewers/consumers with summaries of the current factions and their opinions and allowing your readers et al to be informed about the topic.

But determining what is true – whatever ‘true’ actually is within context – you are filtering the raw infomation. You are not providing the argument, you are providing the solution. Providing the solution may not be a bad thing, but by removing the supporting argument you are further isolating the readers from the overall picture.

“We are Trusted News. Don’t Question Us.”

(the side observation into this is that the ‘media’ class honestly believe this is the correct start of society. They are horrified at information and debate that is allowed to travel sideways because only qualified people (aka – THEM) have the skills to ensure the debate is controlled correctly and that the great smelly unwashed are ONLY given the information they themselves have first filtered. Information should travel via the vertical model where the skilled analysis (again – aka THEM) feed it vertically down, without discussion, to the masses below. They literally and proudly think this.)

The second observation is the complete lack of self awareness. If we were to re-write slightly that paragraph with the words ‘CO2 driven warming’ and ‘no observed warming’ then the job of the media would be to go and check the observations.

Do they?

Of course not. It is all about the models and if the models don’t work it is clearly the fault of… ummm… Republicans… or something.

So, trusting the observations is Good(tm) when dealing with hypothetical examples, but trusting the observations when debating CO2 effect on society is supporting slavery.

Yup. Well done. Greta would be proud, or at least would be if she wasn’t constantly angry.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Craig from Oz
September 5, 2021 11:10 pm

Your job is to look out the window and find out which is true

Actually, your job is to prevent the advertisements from all running together.

Graemethecat
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
September 6, 2021 12:03 am

Cynical but true.

StephenP
Reply to  Craig from Oz
September 5, 2021 11:55 pm

The problem is that the activists are so often ignorant about what happened yesterday, last week, last year or last century. They are dismissive of any contrary viewpoint, but can not be bothered to research past weather conditions and events.
As a result they over-react to any change in the weather rather than taking a more considered view, and using the money to provide resilience to weather related events.
Instead they insist on wasting billions on limited life boondoggles that have questionable benefits on the CO2 they are supposed to be saving, in order, as they see it, to ” save the planet “.

StephenP
Reply to  StephenP
September 6, 2021 12:00 am

Incidentally, IIRC, didn’t Margaret Thatcher change her mind in later life as to the connection of CO2 with CAGW?
Her initial attitude was considerably affected by her tussle with the coal miners’ unions.

observa
September 5, 2021 9:02 pm

Speaking of slippery they have more games up their sleeve if CO2 doesn’t strike fear into your wallet-
‘Game changing’ study of turtles and plastics on Great Barrier Reef (msn.com)
Grants need to be versatile where the products of fossil fuels are concerned.

John V. Wright
September 5, 2021 9:07 pm

Scientifically illiterate bitter old lefty – who cares what he thinks.

Graemethecat
Reply to  John V. Wright
September 6, 2021 12:04 am

Have you ever met a lefty who wasn’t scientifically illiterate?

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  Graemethecat
September 6, 2021 3:01 am

No, or very ignorant.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Graemethecat
September 6, 2021 3:06 pm

Or bitter?

Kenji
September 5, 2021 9:17 pm

Nick Cohen is as slippery as those who opposed BREXIT, preferring instead, continued enslavement to the EU bureaucrats.

DMacKenzie
September 5, 2021 10:00 pm

Just questioning the numbers, Mr CC advocate Cohen….so far the answers are flakey enough that we have more questions….

Jack
September 5, 2021 10:10 pm

The Figaro newspapers exposes the doubling of the number of deaths in India since 1960 caused by lightinings as a consequence of the global warming.
The stupid journalist didn’t even imagined that India’s population expanded threefold during this period…

Phillip Bratby
September 5, 2021 10:11 pm

Just like with the BBC, the truth is the opposite of what you read in the Grauniad.

philincalifornia
Reply to  Phillip Bratby
September 6, 2021 4:52 pm

That’s why I go there – to find out what’s not the truth or occasionally for football and cricket scores.

This bloke’s rantings are actually pretty funny. I read George Monbiot’s salary (on here I think), so he must be on a sh!t salary, nobody reads his crap (except us, so we can take the piss), he has one foot in the grave and he has to look back on his schoolboy choices, i.e. remaining one. The only thing missing is his short pants.

Look on the bright side. This is his self-manufactured punishment all the way to his death bed. He probably can’t even afford to get his bum caned by a lady in a School Ma’am outfit in Soho. I look back fondly to those days when that was free. Well that’s what my uncle told me ……..

Chris Hanley
September 5, 2021 10:18 pm

All I see is absurdity, when Nick declares the age of fossil fuel is over.

Quite so, also considering ~ 80% of UK primary energy consumption comes from fossil fuels (2019) and the ~14% of ‘renewables’ is already causing serious supply problems:
comment image

Last edited 1 year ago by Chris Hanley
Bill Toland
Reply to  Chris Hanley
September 5, 2021 11:50 pm

Only 3.47% came from wind and solar. Most of the “renewables” figure is from burning biomass. It is SO renewable to chop down American forests, ship the wood across the Atlantic and burn it in Drax power station.

Last edited 1 year ago by Bill Toland
michel
Reply to  Bill Toland
September 6, 2021 12:20 am

Also, I think the 3.47% is not real. Not sure quite how to put this. They oblige electricity companies to buy the wind and solar generated power. Because of this, they buy it whether they need it or not, and most of the time they do not. Because most of the time its coming in high peaks which don’t coincide with demand. So they buy and turn down supply from conventional.

The 3.4% is basically an artifact of this legislative situation. If you took off all regulation and left it to the market, it would be way down. No-one would buy it on a contractual basis because of intermittency. And if they did buy it on the spot market, they’d buy very little because they would not need it.

I guess there would be some limited periods when high demand would coincide with high wind and solar production. Not many. In the UK climate you really do not need air conditioning, no homes have it. So the peak demand coinciding with high solar that you might observe in the US or Australia just doesn’t exist.

The real number if you want to assess useful supply is well under 1%.

Bill Toland
Reply to  michel
September 6, 2021 12:27 am

Michel, your post is a very nice summary of the current insanity that is Britain’s power supply system.

Coeur de Lion
September 5, 2021 10:35 pm

Btw in UK Boris’s windmills producing 1.8% of UK electricity. Again.

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  Coeur de Lion
September 6, 2021 3:08 am

Good job we didn’t waste billions on them…

MarkW
Reply to  Coeur de Lion
September 6, 2021 6:12 am

Didn’t griff just tell us that wind and solar was providing 40% of the UK’s energy needs?
Don’t tell griff lied.

Ben Vorlich
Reply to  MarkW
September 6, 2021 9:08 am

That normally only happens on a windy weekend, early in the morning, when demand is barely half that of a normal weekday (ca 35GW). These days we normally get more than 4GW from the EU.

fretslider
Reply to  Ben Vorlich
September 6, 2021 9:23 am

Griff doesn’t just fib on windy weekends…

Patrick MJD
September 5, 2021 10:56 pm

I do have a weakness for an black African lady. I make no apologies.

MarkW
Reply to  Patrick MJD
September 6, 2021 6:13 am

Reminds me of a time when some Democrat visited some country in Africa, and started referring to the locals as African-Americans.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  MarkW
September 6, 2021 12:10 pm

We’re all African if we consider mDNA.

Hubert
September 5, 2021 11:36 pm

All these climate alarmists will shut their mouth when the AMO cycle will turn to negative phase in several years . In the mid-time , the discussion is not possible , The Guardian like others won’t stop to use more and more extremist words … without logic …
We could also call them “ultracrepidarianists”

Bill Toland
Reply to  Hubert
September 6, 2021 12:01 am

I’m not so sure. Climate alarmists will simply claim that the cold weather is just another consequence of climate change. I have read some articles in the British media recently which claimed that recent heavy snowfalls in several parts of the world were caused by climate change. I have found it virtually impossible to reason with religious fanatics and climate alarmists make religious fanatics seem reasonable by comparison.

Last edited 1 year ago by Bill Toland
griff
September 5, 2021 11:53 pm

Well until I read the article next to this on German floods I’d have said the Guardian was exaggerating…

but now? yes, I think they nailed it.

Bill Toland
Reply to  griff
September 6, 2021 12:09 am

Griff, you still don’t know the difference between weather and climate. How many times have you repeated this same old discredited argument?

MarkW
Reply to  griff
September 6, 2021 6:15 am

So weather events that have happened hundreds of times before going back hundreds of years, are proof that this time it was caused by CO2.

I’m tempted to use some schoolyard insults, but griff’s feelings would be hurt.

Rich Davis
Reply to  MarkW
September 6, 2021 3:17 pm

It’s ok, he can go to the Good Grief Network to get over it.

Derg
Reply to  griff
September 6, 2021 10:15 am

Simon?

Jack
September 5, 2021 11:57 pm

Those who justified the slave trade by the end of the 19th cent. were the likes of Al Gore, Joe Biden, Mrs Pelosi, Mrs K.Harris.

Richard Page
Reply to  Jack
September 6, 2021 6:02 am

It was always the Southern party of the landowners. The 1960’s civil rights movement was a shock to them as they risked losing most of the seats in their heartland. I think it was LBJ who helped get the Democrats a lot of the Southern Black vote by increasing welfare payments to them, primarily. The history of the Democrat party does appear to be a history of corruption, sleaze and racism.

michel
September 6, 2021 12:05 am

There is a parallel between climate and the slave trade, and its to do with the mentality of the left.

With climate and emissions, the assumption is always that if the US, UK, Australia, whoever in the West, reduces, that will make a vital difference and save the planet.

The reality is that if CO2 emissions really are creating a crisis, the countries doing it are not the West. They are China, India, etc, and their share of total emissions is rising all the time.

They don’t show any signs of believing in the Guardian’s climate crisis at any level – scientists or politicians.

With slavery, the assumption is always that the Atlantic trade was the entire phenomenon, and was entirely down to Western slave traders.

The reality is, as people here have pointed out, that it was in more than equal measure down to Africans themselves who sold their own people to the slave transporters, for a couple of centuries.

The reality is also that Britain led the world in abolishing the Atlantic trade. They got all the other European nations to agree, they abolished slavery internally before anyone else, and they stationed the West Africa fleet off the coast of West Africa for decades, at huge expense, intercepting slavers and repatriating the slaves.

When we look at this, we should conclude that Europe of the 17th and 18th centuries did appallingly wrong with the slave trade. But they finally realized their wrongdoing and did everything they could to remedy it. And finally succeeded. They did actually abolish the trade.

Just as with the non-Western CO2 emissions, the thing that the left never talks about is the trans Saharan Islamic slave trade. This lasted for well over a thousand years. It was going strong until late in the 19th century, when Europeans, mainly the British, finally managed to put a stop to it. It consisted not only in transporting slaves into the Middle Eastern Islamic countries, but it also did so accompanied by wholesale genital mutilation of the crudest sort, which led to a very high mortality rate.

I have no hard numbers on the phenomenon, but given the scale and duration of it, it must have been tens of millions. It dwarfed the Atlantic slave trade in scale and in brutality and duration.

This is not to excuse the Atlantic slave trade. It was terrible, deeply wrong, inexcusable. It is however to point out that if you want to look at slavery the phenomenon, you have to look at it in the round, all of it. We cannot understand war by ignoring WW1 and WW2. We cannot understand slavery while refusing to look at the largest slaving operations in history.

Finally, I would recall for everyone the wisdom of the New Testament. There is more joy in heaven over a sinner that repenteth….

Have you heard any repenting from Saudi Arabia lately?

ATheoK
Reply to  michel
September 6, 2021 5:58 am

“With slavery, the assumption is always that the Atlantic trade was the entire phenomenon, and was entirely down to Western slave traders.

The reality is, as people here have pointed out, that it was in more than equal measure down to Africans themselves who sold their own people to the slave transporters, for a couple of centuries.”

Slavery has been in existence since man conquered man. It was actively practiced in every alleged civilization right up to the late 1700s and early 1800s.
Even today, while it isn’t openly acknowledged, slavery still exists in uncivilized regions including the Mideast.

“The reality is also that Britain led the world in abolishing the Atlantic trade. They got all the other European nations to agree, they abolished slavery internally before anyone else, and they stationed the West Africa fleet off the coast of West Africa for decades, at huge expense, intercepting slavers and repatriating the slaves.”

No, not at all.
As I pointed out elsewhere, the Northern states in the American Colonies opted to abolish slavery following ratification of the Constitution in the late 1770s into the first decade of the 1800s.

Following the end of an agreement to get the Constitution passed, President Thomas Jefferson got Congress in 1808 to abolish the importation of slaves into any United States port.

After 1808 importing slaves into the United States meant smuggling slaves past Federal forts at most ports. It also made it difficult to sell new slaves smuggled into any city/town.

This law did not stop importing slaves into English, French, Portuguese and Spanish territories. Cuba for example needed slaves to harvest sugar cane. Other countries need them to tend and harvest coffee, chocolate and especially latex.

michel
Reply to  ATheoK
September 6, 2021 8:38 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Africa_Squadron

“Between 1808 and 1860 the West Africa Squadron captured 1,600 slave ships and freed 150,000 Africans.[1] It is considered the most costly international moral action in modern history.[5]”

[5] Kaufmann, Chaim D.; Pape, Robert A. (Autumn 1999). “Explaining Costly International Moral Action: Britain’s Sixty-Year Campaign against the Atlantic Slave Trade”. International Organization. MIT Press. 53 (4): 631–668. JSTOR 2601305.

ATheoK
Reply to  michel
September 6, 2021 9:09 pm

???
A) wiki is very untrustworthy.

B) Slaves meant for Cuba, Caribbean, Jamaica, Bermuda, Central America and South America.

Nothing to do with Slaves for the southern states in America. America had already taken steps to stem the flow of the slave trade from Africa.

The reality is also that Britain led the world in abolishing the Atlantic trade.”

Still wrong, no matter how prettily it is phrased.

Keeping in mind that during the period England was shutting down the Atlantic slave trade, England was actively boarding ships, including American ships and impressing anyone they decided was from England into slavery.

1,600 ships is an awful lot of ships… Just how many of these were actual named ships built by seafaring nations?

Then after the ship is seized, what became of the ship? Returned to England? Sold? Sunk?

150,000 slaves freed amounts to 94 slaves per alleged ship. Since slavers stuff their boats to the limit.

Slave ships ranged in size from the ten-ton Hesketh, which sailed out of Liverpool and delivered slaves to Saint Kitts in 1761, to the 566-ton Parr, another Liverpool ship that sailed in the 1790s. Ships comparable in size to the Hesketh were designed to carry as few as six pleasure passengers; refitted as a slaver, the Hesketh transported a crew plus thirty Africans. The Parr, on the other hand, carried a crew of 100 and a cargo of as many as 700 slaves.”

Which indicates that the majority of the alleged slave ships interdicted by the British were small ships. Likely, many were ferrying captured slaves to a larger port where they would be sold to larger slave ships.

“Between 1500 and 1866, Europeans transported to the Americas nearly 12.5 million enslaved Africans.

The Atlantic trade in slaves began on a small scale with the Portuguese, who used African laborers as domestic workers in Lisbon, then on sugar plantations on the islands of Madeira and São Tomé, off the coast of Africa, and finally in Brazil.

In 1575 the Portuguese colonized Angola, in West-Central Africa, at a moment when drought set off a series of wars that created thousands of refugees and captives who, in turn, were sold by African traders to the Europeans.

For the next century, the Portuguese (and to a lesser extent the Dutch) dominated the slave trade, with the French and English obtaining slaves mostly by stealing them from Portuguese ships.

Chain of Slaves travelling from the Interior.

In 1672, the Royal African Company received a monopoly charter over deliveries of captives to the English Caribbean islands of Barbados and Jamaica.”

England, after several centuries of supplying and using slaves suddenly is credited, by English teachers, with shutting down the slave trade in the Atlantic.

All while England impressed sailors into slavery in the Royal Navy.

Nor should one forget that at no time did England declare war on Netherlands, Portugal, Spain or France. Yet England seized ships operated under these countries flags?

Richard Page
Reply to  ATheoK
September 7, 2021 10:52 am

Britain was at war with the Netherlands, America, France and Spain during this time; Portugal was an ally and no ships were taken at a time when Britain was not at war with a country – this was most carefully observed, almost to a fault. On the other hand, whenever Spain happened to put together a small fleet of treasure ships to convoy from South America to Spain, Britain just happened to be at war with Spain at that time, for whatever flimsy reason (look up the war of Jenkins ear if you don’t believe me). The Royal Navy and Britain made quite a good living out of that particular scam – managed it about 5 times overall! The only time there was a problem was when a Spanish ship was taken by mistake just 14 days before a declaration of war – the ship and all contents were returned to the Spanish, along with an apology and restitution for damage caused.

michel
Reply to  ATheoK
September 6, 2021 8:39 am

Castlereagh was instrumental in getting the slave trade ban into the Congress of Vienna, which ended the Napoleonic wars.

ATheoK
Reply to  michel
September 6, 2021 9:35 pm

Castlereagh tried, not did.

Castlereagh slaves 1.JPG
Nick Graves
September 6, 2021 12:19 am

No one seems as defeated as the lunatic “lefties” who dominated the Grauniad thinking a decade ago. Like late 18th-century opponents of abolishing the slave trade, cranks who filled the comment pages of the Totalitarian press are remembered today as dangerous fools – assuming they are remembered at all.

There, Nick – save that for a future article.

fretslider
September 6, 2021 12:37 am

Guardian: “Climate change deniers are as slippery as those who justified the slave trade”

Like…. The Guardian once did

Robert Watt
September 6, 2021 1:18 am

How, in Cohen’s words, can earth’s oceans be “more acidic” when they have a pH higher than 7? Is it because “less alkaline” sounds less frightening?

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  Robert Watt
September 6, 2021 3:07 am

Yes.

Graemethecat
Reply to  Robert Watt
September 6, 2021 5:41 am

Cohen is utterly clueless about Chemistry, amongst other things.

richard
Reply to  Robert Watt
September 6, 2021 10:59 am

Phrase was coined in 2003 by Ken Caldeira tp ramp up the fear.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Robert Watt
September 6, 2021 2:08 pm

I prefer the description ‘less caustic’

Rod Evans
September 6, 2021 2:07 am

My advice to all is just ignore the Guardian, every thinking person does. That advice also goes for the BBC.
The climate alarm dept. are working overtime to get Climate back onto the front page after brother Biden knocked them off balance, due to his Afghan debacle.
They will never forgive him, the COP 26 lot had to give themselves an extra year to prepare for the mass event of nonsense, because no one was interested and now they are put onto the inside pages because of the ineptitude of one of their own key supporters, Biden..
Justice does exist, you just have to be patient..

Paul Buckingham
September 6, 2021 2:21 am

My response to the Guardian complaints (guardian.readers@theguardian.com):

Dear Sir / Madam,

I am writing in relation to the following:

The article you’re complaining about : Climate change deniers are as slippery as those who justified the slave trade, Nick Cohen
The date on which it appeared : September 4th, 2021
Whether the article appeared in print or online (and whether through a browser or via one of our mobile apps) : Seen online: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/04/climate-change-deniers-are-as-slippery-as-those-who-justified-the-slave-trade
The nature of your complaint in no more than 500 words : Appended below.
Which part of the Editorial Code it breaches : Of the 16 stated areas of code, this article is in breach of Accuracy, Opportunity to Reply and Harassment.

Complaint:

The headline itself is hyperbolic garbage which immediately falls foul of accuracy and harassment, as it specifically associates individuals with the slave trade in quite the most childish logic and attempt to have equally scientifically illiterate individuals seek to make public disparaging and harassing comments about individuals who have then been provided no opportunity to reply to this utter nonsense.

If this Cohen ignoramus, and anyone else at the Guardian, is going to make these wholly inaccurate statements, then the first point of accuracy will be to provide the following:

1. Evidence of the scientific method proving AGW, not theories or hypothesis, the actual burden of proof, and please don’t regurgitate the IPCC as they do not have this information as they are a political body, not a scientific one, which I have in writing.

2. When you fail to answer the first question, you are then dependent on the precautionary principle, in which all lunatic dogma from the likes of Nick Cohen is dependent entirely on models, so in order to obtain accuracy you must provide the names and evidence of having solved the two critical equations prior to then providing evidence of having solved the closure problem, including all confounders, without which all models are GIGO.

When Nick, and everyone else at the Guardian, fails to provide these answers, you will then be subject to making public admission that you are all science deniers, rather than anyone conducting actual science through question and logical debate, rather than idiotic and ignorant comparisons, which would conversely be more accurately laid at the feet of actual science deniers like Nick Cohen.

I have little faith that this constant dogma preached by scientifically illiterate people that conveniently live comfortably off that which they attempt to demonise, nor do I expect anyone at the Guardian to make a swift 180 degree from the crazed ramblings of what has become literally akin to a cult, but as you have set the editorial standards, let’s see if you can do the one thing that ideologues never do, and that is have the courage of your conviction. Whilst you are at it, have Nick Cohen explain exactly how he thinks destruction of the economy for yet another socialist/communist fantasy will solve the economic problem through central planning (I dare say he is equally ignorant on that as well)?

Dave Fair
Reply to  Paul Buckingham
September 6, 2021 10:55 am

Rants are not useful as Letters to the Editor.

Dennis
September 6, 2021 2:57 am

In anticipation of the IPCC Glascow Conference officials are bordering on ordering the Australian Government to stop coal mining and related coal fired power station operation and export by 2030.

When reminded that coal is a major export income source and over 70 per cent of the world’s largest interconnected electricity grid (Queensland-New South Wales-Victoria-Tasmania-South Australia and the Australian Capital Territory) electricity generating capacity is from coal fired power stations and that coal related employment is a significant segment of the economy the IPCC apparently replied that because Australia is a wealthy nation it can afford to stop the coal and related industry by 2030.

Apparently the fact that what the UN calls “developing nations”, best example China with an economy now close to rivalling the USA, are increasing coal mining, importing and burning every year is acceptable, despite China alone producing new emissions every year that exceed Australia’s total emissions. In other words whatever Australia did would be an exercise in futility based on economic vandalism.

Please consider that in 1975 many developed nations including Australia signed the UN Lima Protocol or Agreement to assist developing nations to become manufacturing nations exporting to the manufacturing nations that agreed to greatly reduce their own manufacturing capacities. Accordingly China has become a manufacturing giant and economic powerhouse. But the IPCC will not try to stop them from using coal until 2060 or beyond. So much for net zero emissions 2050 target for developed nations, if that was possible without badly damaging the prosperity of the people in nations that blindly followed UN orders.

Climate hoaxers call sceptics deniers, be careful or they will add racist if we do not ignore developing nations exemption.

Of course the climate changes, Earth Cycles since time began, climate zones and weather, naturally.

Enough of this manipulative mob of unelected diplomatic passport holders enjoying life in New York and their fellow traveller globalists on communistic tickets such as Socialism, Marxism, Lennists, Trotskyites and other leftists.

Dennis
Reply to  Dennis
September 6, 2021 3:00 am

Please also note that Australia signed the IPCC Kyoto Agreement in Japan and the Paris Agreement in France and achieved all of the emissions reduction targets for Kyoto and is well on the way to achieving Paris emissions targets.

Australia is one of the few signatory nations that achieved Kyoto and will achieve Paris.

Included in the nations that did not is China, and many other nations with lower emissions than China.

MarkW
Reply to  Dennis
September 6, 2021 6:18 am

Australia is one of the few signatory nations that achieved Kyoto and will achieve Paris.

My condolences.

George Lawson
September 6, 2021 3:48 am

” The world only had to look at the weather outside to know who was trying to fool it.
Yes, idiotic people like Nick Coen and his cohorts who should never have been given the title of journalist.

George Lawson
Reply to  George Lawson
September 6, 2021 3:50 am

Sorry ‘Cohen’

September 6, 2021 3:51 am

We will see a lot more silly stuff like this in the run up to COP26, now less than 60 days away. Happily Nick is factually wrong, just as alarmism is, for skepticism is thriving.

garboard
September 6, 2021 4:14 am

now that ” extreme weather ” has become the shiboleth for climate change , we should look backwards at what has happened rather than blaming the climate “emergency ” for bringing new and ” unprecedented ” weather disasters in the future . for instance New York was hit by a hurricane with a 13 foot storm surge which put a large area of Manhattan under water in 1821 . if the hurricane of 1938 had made landfall 60 miles further west New York would have had water up to second floor windows instead of providence . we have had hugely catastrophic weather disasters on the east coast and all over North America in the past and we will have them again . they are nothing new . what is new is the damage they can do to complex infrastructure and increased populations , the tsunami of media coverage and their interaction with contemporary attitudes . what used to be thought of as ” acts of god ” are now blamed on humans . the challenge of protecting ourselves from natural disasters should be faced without the destructive battle over climate change . we’ve had natural disasters in the past , we will have them again whether climate changes or not . regardless of attribution the question remains how much money and restructuring are we willing to commit ?

2hotel9
September 6, 2021 4:15 am

As already pointed out the founder of the Guardian was a slaver, his descendants were supporters of communism and now are pushing global socialism. Enemies of the human race, one and all.

Bruce Cobb
September 6, 2021 4:58 am

As a stalwart member of the Climate Taliban, Nick Cohen’s “attack” on the defenders of truth about climate and about energy is nothing but feeble-minded blather. Like so many of his ilk, his salvos misfire badly, and he winds up being hoist by his own petard. He and his brethren would have humanity bow down to, and be slaves to the Green Blob, pretending to “save the planet”. They want to enchain humanity in an anti-human, anti-science, anti-truth, and anti-democratic ideology. So far, they appear to be getting away with it.

Matthew Sykes
September 6, 2021 5:40 am

These morons, the ‘inetersectionalists’ who seek links and associations between ‘issues’ are laughable. Being black and a woman gives you extra points. If you are a lesbian you get more points, and a trans lesbian black woman gives you so many points in todays world they cant be counted.

This is why climate always affects poor black women most, according to these morons.

Of course,

And now we intersect its perpetrators with slavery, colonialism, whiteness of course, and especially, capitalism. (As if commie China isnt producing CO2!)

These people mistake cutesy feeling with logic, with reason.

Imagine if these people ever had to do anything useful in their lives, create something that might be tested by the laws of physics, like a bridge, or a space ship. Imagine just how utterly redundant their form of thought would be.

And yet, here they are, in all their ignorant splendour, displaying their ignorance with such ill conceived self congratulation. And worse than that, gaining power! Driving policy!

How the hell did we ever let people like this breed, let alone get in a position where their feeble minded utterances held sway.

philincalifornia
Reply to  Matthew Sykes
September 6, 2021 4:32 pm

“How the hell did we ever let people like this breed, let alone get in a position where their feeble minded utterances held sway”

Because normal, competent people don’t want the job any more. They can have lives where they’re normal and competent. So human parasites get the votes, because only parasites are on the ballot.

John Bell
September 6, 2021 7:31 am

They love to rant about “clime den!ers” because it moves the attention away from their own hypocrisy.

Olen
September 6, 2021 7:42 am

He may be partially right. There were 25 major slave owners in the US, one of which was Black. Most people did not own slaves in the South and many whites were little better off than slaves driving many whites to the North. The importing of slaves was stopped in 1808 moving to ending slavery that never should have happened.

He is wrong in who he compares slavery to. Slavery was hardship to the slave and poor whites. If the global warming crowd get there way there will be induced hardship and suffering. The deniers however stand for progress, freedom and happiness without some effective writing graduate strolling in cofort dictating how we should live.

Olen
Reply to  Olen
September 6, 2021 7:42 am

Sorry, comfort.

Pat from Kerbob
September 6, 2021 7:52 am

I think the British public, those that have lost family members to depression and suicide over the false climate emergency, “10 years to extinction” BS, should go find this guy and all like him that are destroying the fabric of society, causing kids to stop trying at school.

Its like they are trying to develop PAX (Firefly reference), and destroy the will to live?

The damage these people are doing to society is going to fill decades of papers.

Brian BAKER
September 6, 2021 7:54 am

No doubt Nick also proposes Biogenic products to replace all the fossil fuel products that he uses in everyday life. Not wishing to be a hypocrite I would presume he doesn’t use any fossil-fueled transport or telecommunication products. I wonder how his attitude will change when he has to pay the true environmental cost of his profligacy. No doubt he will adopt the reserved position of greenies – do as I say not as I do.

Neo
September 6, 2021 8:00 am

The billions of dollars spent by the fossil fuel industry on propaganda and its acceptance by know-nothing elements on the right

Funny, I never got a dime.

Last edited 1 year ago by Neo
Robert Hanson
Reply to  Neo
September 6, 2021 9:30 am

For every dollar spent by FF companies, $10,000 is spent by NOGs, governments, and bribes from China and the Mid-East. The Sierra Club alone has a yearly budget of a Hundred Million dollars !

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Neo
September 6, 2021 3:19 pm

The fossil fuel companies spent billions of dollars on propaganda? I don’t believe it. That’s a lie.

Boff Doff
September 6, 2021 8:09 am

Who could possibly be more qualified to comment on climate than a third rate Grauniad hack with a PPE?

Libelling a significant proportion of real scientists is pretty desperate.

Charlie
September 6, 2021 8:35 am

Such rot from Cohen. It could definitely be Griff.

Gordon A. Dressler
September 6, 2021 10:54 am

Hey, Guardian, most people with an IQ above room temperature (in deg-C or deg-F, makes no difference) know that climate changes . . . always has, always will.

Only idiots think that humans can stop “climate change”.

CalJim
September 6, 2021 1:08 pm

What does Mr. Worrell think that a person is supposed to do while living in a world dominated by fossil fuels; starve to death to make his point? Working to change the course of industrial society, especially given the odds of success, really requires a tempered approach to even reach out to others who may be misinformed or uninformed.

Speaking of misinformed this site must be at the heart of misinformation, probably only second to the Heartland Institute.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  CalJim
September 6, 2021 2:16 pm

Speaking of misinformed this site must be at the heart of misinformation, probably only second to the Heartland Institute.

Feel free to provide evidence of this misinformation. Any time you like.

Models aren’t evidence, BTW.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  CalJim
September 6, 2021 3:22 pm

Well, how about you informing us on what we should know?

What misinformation at WUWT would you like to correct?

Please feel free to do so.

Richard Page
Reply to  CalJim
September 6, 2021 5:39 pm

You admit that you are living in a world dominated by fossil fuels and are working to change the course of industrial society?

Why? It’s worked well in advancing and enhancing our way of life, increasing our standard of living and life expectancy so why on earth would you want to change a system that’s working? Surely the best thing would be to expand it to areas that still need to be improved, to give those people the same benefits we enjoy, wouldn’t it?

Andrew Wilkins
Reply to  CalJim
September 7, 2021 11:32 am

Speaking of misinformed this site must be at the heart of misinformation, probably only second to the Heartland Institute.

Oh dear, you poor soul: welcome to the lions’ den of scientific realism. You better bring your best game face or you’ll get destroyed, just like the regular destruction of the hapless Griff.

BigJohn
September 6, 2021 6:24 pm

I think that people will start to noteist the AGW BS, because their bills will start to go stupid to pay for all this.

ResourceGuy
September 7, 2021 6:34 am

So put those rooftop solar installations up with slave labor components from western China in 2021 so you can feel good about yourself and be like your other slave owning (importing) neighbors.

ResourceGuy
September 7, 2021 6:35 am

The Green Taliban have spoken. The door to door searches will begin soon.

ResourceGuy
September 7, 2021 6:47 am

…more caption detail: and clothing imported from fossil fuel intensive countries

Neo
September 7, 2021 8:05 am

Alarmist Climate Change scientists torture data as those at the Tobacco Institute.

Steve Z
September 7, 2021 8:48 am

[QUTOE FROM ARTICLE] “They might have followed Margaret Thatcher, who warned in 1989 of C02 emissions leading to climate change “more fundamental and more widespread than anything we have known”. [END QUOTE]

Margaret Thatcher embraced global warming theory primarily for political purposes, in order to cast the coal miners’ union in a bad light, and help her Tories keep the parliamentary majority. Although she was one of the UK’s best Prime Ministers, this was probably her worst mistake, one which the current PM Boris Johnson is repeating.

leitmotif
Reply to  Steve Z
September 7, 2021 3:50 pm

Sorry Steve Z but you are out of date.

Margaret Thatcher: Hot Air And Global Warming from Statecraft 2003 recanted.
The doomsters’ favourite subject today is climate change. This has a number of attractions for them. First, the science is extremely obscure so they cannot easily be proved wrong. Second, we all have ideas about the weather: traditionally, the English on first acquaintance talk of little else. Third, since clearly no plan to alter climate could be considered on anything but a global scale, it provides a marvellous excuse for worldwide, supra-national socialism.”

https://www.thegwpf.com/margaret-thatcher-hot-air-global-warming/

Andrew Wilkins
September 7, 2021 11:24 am

There is so much wrong with Cohen’s idiotic article I don’t know where to start, but let’s try a couple of things:

The billions of dollars spent by the fossil fuel industry on propaganda

This “propaganda” Cohen refers to isn’t under-the-counter money spent on nefarious dark deeds. It transpires it’s money oil companies spent on advertising their products. Nike spends a lot advertising its products; does that mean there is a “Big Trainer” conspiracy?

And energy bills have fallen rather than risen

Weapons grade bollocks. https://www.statista.com/statistics/418126/electricity-prices-for-households-in-the-uk/

The Conservative Environmental Network is already in a fight with a small group of rightwing MPs, who claim “the poorest will pay the highest price for net-zero fantasies” (even though no measure is more likely to reduce fuel poverty than a government home-insulation drive)

Insulating a few homes isn’t going to stop green energy charges costing the poor an absolute fortune relative to the costs the wealthy virtue signallers who read the Graun will have to pay.

the enemies of science (and of us all) are endlessly malleable shapeshifters.

I’ve got a tin-foil hat Cohen can borrow (for a fee, natch)

The lights did not go out as we switched to renewable energy

The lights didn’t go out because of fossil fuel back up. Does the idiot Cohen not realise this?

They are overwhelmingly old men



Cohen’s no spring chicken. However, if he wants to align himself with the young and naive, rather than the worldly wise, that’s his problem.

September 8, 2021 4:03 am

The Guardian is only read by a very few nutters. It is not more than a college rag mag .. and the staff are the same.

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