Nessie, the giant tropical spider which used to live on my porch. We had a deal - she ate lots of bugs, I didn't spray her. Sadly she passed away on a cold winter day.

Guardian: We Must Abandon “Speciesism”, Putting Humans First, to Stop Climate Change

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

According to Guardian author Peter Sutoris, we need to rediscover the environmental connectedness of indigenous peoples, though we might get to keep some of our tech toys.

The climate crisis requires a new culture and politics, not just new tech

Peter Sutoris
Mon 24 May 2021 21.00 AEST

This moment calls for humility – we cannot innovate ourselves out of this mess

We are living through what scientists call the Anthropocene, a new geological age during which humans have become the dominant force shaping the natural environment. Many scientists date this new period to the post-second world war economic boom, the “great acceleration”. This rapid increase in our control over the Earth has brought us to the precipice of catastrophic climate change, triggered a mass extinction, disrupted our planet’s nitrogen cycles and acidified its oceans, among other things.

Our society has come to believe that technology is the solution. Electricity from renewable sources, energy-efficient buildings, electric vehicles and hydrogen fuels are among the many innovations that we hope will play a decisive role in reducing emissions. Most of the mainstream climate-change models now assume some degree of “negative emissions” in the future, relying on large-scale carbon capture technology, despite the fact that it is far from ready to be implemented. And if all else fails, the story goes, we can geoengineer the Earth.

Our civilisation is underpinned by extractivism, a belief that the Earth is ours to exploit, and the nonsensical idea of infinite growth within a finite territory. Material possessions as markers of achievement, a drive to consume for the sake of consumption, and blindness to the long-term consequences of our actions, have all become part of the culture of global capitalism. But there is nothing self-evident about these things, as indigenous peoples teach us.

Many indigenous groups got to know their natural environments intimately and sustained themselves over millennia, often despite harsh conditions. They came to understand the limits of what these environments could support, and they grasped that caring for the environment was simultaneously an act of self-care. Pacific islanders would designate no-go areas of the ocean to avoid overfishing, while high-altitude farmers in the Andes would rely on terraces that reduced erosion to grow their crops. It is not a coincidence that as much as 80% of the world’s remaining biodiversityis located within territories inhabited by indigenous peoples.

Read more:

Talk of society re-embracing indigenous lifestyles in my opinion is nonsense. People who choose to live this way, I have no problem with that. But most of us enjoy our comforts.

Most people in advanced countries, even people whose ancestors lived indigenous lifestyles, live modern lifestyles of their own free will.

Authors like Peter Sutoris talk the talk, but my guess is he is typing on a computer which contains lots of plastic and refined metal, lives in a warm, waterproof and comfortable house, has a nice place to sleep, and has a freezer stuffed full of food, at least some of which he didn’t have to hunt or grow.

The idea of ending “speciesism”, ending prioritisation of human welfare, might sound nice and fluffy, but a serious attempt to downgrade human welfare as a priority would almost certainly have severe consequences. You don’t have to look far back in history to find periods of horrible suffering, like Mao’s Great Leap Forward, or the periods of severe famine in early Soviet times, all caused by governments which focussed on priorities other than taking care of their people.

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May 26, 2021 2:12 pm

I think Peter Sutoris is preparing to re-brand Kool-Aid as “Speciesism”.

(And thanks once again Eric for taking one for the team here by reading the absolute tosh that The Guardian publishes, thereby saving us from the prospect of having our intellects compromised)

Reply to  Mr.
May 26, 2021 2:32 pm

Peter Sutoris appears to be vagenda driven.

May 26, 2021 2:16 pm

Can we still watch the pride parades of lions, lionesses, and their [unPlanned] cubs? Or would that be speciest appropriation?

That said, Planned People… Persons will complement Planned Parent/hood. From conception to grave following a progressive path and grade.

Welcome to The Outer Limits. You have now entered The Twilight Fringe. Perhaps an episode of V.

Last edited 1 year ago by n.n
May 26, 2021 2:17 pm

And you quote The Grauniad…..why?

Clickbait ?

Everyone on this site knows it’s a long lost rag with dwindling readership that panders to the far left: not worthy of our effort.

Don’t give it the time of day.

Reply to  Eric Worrall
May 26, 2021 2:44 pm


Don’t give them the bandwidth.

Use their own Alinsky rules against them. Starve them of oxygen. Cancel them out.

Reply to  Eric Worrall
May 27, 2021 5:26 pm

The concept of MSM, and of a “mainstream,” presupposes Big Media that are trusted by nearly everybody. Such a thing no longer exists. And our consumption habits make that more true. I stick to blogs like this one, and podcasts. The Hollywood media have nothing I want.

Gunga Din
Reply to  AleaJactaEst
May 26, 2021 5:07 pm

So let “them” control the bandwidth?
That’s canceling ourselves out.
To be aware of what they are being told, when you meet one, just might help you give them the “breath of fresh air” they need.

Alan the Brit
Reply to  AleaJactaEst
May 26, 2021 11:33 pm

I understand your position & point of view, however, history is littered with examples of where people turned a “blind eye” to somebody’s rantings & pronouncements, as the 1930s & 40s can display, & it came at a huge Human cost to the world!!! Ignoring them is NOT an option!!! Every false, fabricated, & invented concerns of theirs must be taken apart & shown for the falsehoods they are!!!

Tom Halla
Reply to  Eric Worrall
May 26, 2021 2:52 pm

Hell, I read CounterPunch, which I can’t tell whether they are Maoists or Trotskyites. Knowing what the fringe is up to is important, especially when CounterPunch sounds just like several Democratic congresscritters.

Reply to  AleaJactaEst
May 26, 2021 3:18 pm

The Guardian has about 4 or 5 silly climate change articles every day. The worst ones are from Australia.

Geoff Sherrington
Reply to  leitmotif
May 27, 2021 1:36 am

For good reading by Australians, bookmark Quadrant Online.
You will find material like this example which is on theme with taking indigenous advice
2. The Aboriginal cultures that existed before and have continued since 1788 are among the disgustingly violent and determinedly anti-learning that have been uncovered anywhere on Earth.
3. The British takeover offered Aborigines their best opportunity ever to escape their terrible ignorance and terrible violence -but no, most have not taken that opportunity” A blog comment by Harry Lee in response to: “The Pascoe Stain on the Academy of Science” by Tony Thomas. Geoff S

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  AleaJactaEst
May 26, 2021 5:19 pm

It’s good to know what the enemy is thinking and sometimes humorous in its stupidity.

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
May 26, 2021 8:48 pm

The Guardian is also quite excellent for finding out what is the truth. Need I say more?

OK, I will. That second paragraph must be close to some kind of record in how many lies it’s possible to shoehorn into so few lines.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  AleaJactaEst
May 26, 2021 8:36 pm

To date they and those like them have been given or have taken ALL THE BAND WIDTH. The majority of the public believes the subject is settled and we’re just spouting nonsense. long since forgotten by “real science”. Our problem has been playing by the rules and hoping everyone else will also play along. It we were playing the game as it needs to be played, Trump would be the President and Obiden would be in a care how where he should be.

Reply to  Rory Forbes
May 27, 2021 5:32 pm

“Real science” will always be corrupt so long as a handful of government agencies control both their funding and their reputations.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  jdgalt1
May 27, 2021 5:47 pm

Science is big business today and government insists on being up to its trotters in that trough too …

Reply to  AleaJactaEst
May 27, 2021 2:27 am

Forewarned is forearmed. We need to know what the Woke brigade are planning to unleash on us next.

Reply to  AleaJactaEst
May 27, 2021 4:38 am

Turning your head away or shutting your eyes to it will not make it go away, AJE. It’s like that nasty shadow lurking in the corner, the one where dust bunnies gather and look like something else in the moonlight… and spook you. If you don’t get out the broom and dustpan and put them where they belong, they’ll still be lurking there the next time you look.

Stephen Wilde
May 26, 2021 2:24 pm

Sadly our leaders and our elites have been taken in and are going full pelt towards the deconstruction of our current civilisation.
In reality, global population will start to decline towards the end of this century and the best approach would be to manage that decline with the use of our existing systems and infrastructure (improving with time) instead of dismantling it all.
If we cause impoverishment of peoples around the world they will raise the birth rates again in order to try and avoid poverty and isolation in old age and we will never reach a satisfactory resolution.
As usual, the doomsayers will bring about the very outcome that they purport to fear.

B Clarke
May 26, 2021 2:26 pm

Peter sutoris amongst other things is a “Social Scientist, ” I have extensive experience with assessing the growth potential of development intervention” and aspects of health, it seems hes been preaching the faith in the poorer parts of the southern hemisphere and Eastern Europe,

He’s a interventionist, plying his brand of environmentalism to the poor and uneducated,

Similar in some respects to what 18th and 19th centenary imperialists did in poorer parts of the world , we used to exploite the poor now we preach to them what they can and can’t do with what they have left,

The common denominator between Peter and the imperialists is ,its all about whats good for the west,at the expense of the poor.

Reply to  B Clarke
May 26, 2021 10:03 pm


B Clarke
Reply to  Redge
May 27, 2021 2:23 am

Agreed Redge

Reply to  B Clarke
May 27, 2021 5:38 pm

“Exploiting” the poor for financial game, as the British did to us, is on net a favor; it left us with a set of customs and institutions that led to prosperity. Let us not conflate that with bad “colonialism” which tries to keep the colonized people poor — which is what China is doing to the west with stupid climate treaties.

May 26, 2021 2:32 pm

Eric, sorry about the sad ending to your spider deal. We had a similar deal with summer bats at our fishing cottage in Canada. They roosted in the outside rafters during day, but they had to follow our boat at dusk and eat all the mosquitos we attracted while we fished for smallmouth bass off the cottage.

What numskulls like Sutoris and the Guardian never understand is scope and scale of what they propose. Great to advocate an indigenous lifestyle, but lets not be that extreme. Pick the peak of Rome at AD1 for comparison. Romans had nothing like an indigenous life style at that time. They had roads, aquaducts, sophisticated agriculture, the Coliseum…Yet at that time the maximum estimated world population was 300 million; could have been as low as 150 million. There are demographers that study and argue such stuff.

Well, now the world population is approaching 8 billion.

Unintentionally advocating by implication the removal by death of about 7.7 billion people to save the climate is not something any thinking person should want to be associated with.

Reply to  Rud Istvan
May 26, 2021 3:57 pm

The Romans?
What did they ever do for us?
(apart from roads, aquaducts, sophisticated agriculture, the Coliseum…)

Craig from Oz
Reply to  Mr.
May 26, 2021 5:37 pm

Safe to walk the streets at night?

Reply to  Rud Istvan
May 26, 2021 10:04 pm

It’s not “unintentional”, it’s the goal

Ed Zuiderwijk
May 26, 2021 2:38 pm

Good heavens. What an utter idiot. Environmental connectedness of indigenous people? Wot?

Smallpox anybody?

Last edited 1 year ago by Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
May 26, 2021 3:21 pm

— yeah, people who think that they can learn from primitive tribes should try to seek out a few of those very primitive tribes that live in the Amazon Basin. In their last conscious moment of thought, the only thing they would “learn” is what a futile stupid idea it was!

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
May 27, 2021 8:03 am

Is there enough environment around for 7.5 billion people to connect to their idigenousosity?

sky king
Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
May 28, 2021 1:08 am

We have much to learn from the Aztec of Tenochtitlán who cut the hearts from virgins as part of their environmental connectedness.

And of course there are those Bushmen of the Kalahari for which every one of us would trade our unconnectedness for their environmental connectedness.

Stephen Skinner
May 26, 2021 2:49 pm

Peter Sutoris should go to Canning Town tube station and try out his ideas on the commuters there.

Reply to  Stephen Skinner
May 26, 2021 3:58 pm

He did.
They turned him into a newt.
(but he got better . . . )

Rick C
Reply to  Stephen Skinner
May 26, 2021 8:17 pm

Maybe he could be dropped off on the beach of North Sentinel Island to consult with the indigenous population on how best to deal with outsiders.

David Kamakaris
May 26, 2021 2:55 pm

Griff, Loydo, any other CAGW zealot out there. You too Nick Stokes. What does fighting climate change mean? What do you want the climate to be once victory is declared against climate change?

Reply to  David Kamakaris
May 26, 2021 4:02 pm

I fight climate change every summer, fall, winter and spring.
I use (in sequence) –
shorts, a jacket, a coat and shorts again.

Gunga Din
Reply to  David Kamakaris
May 26, 2021 5:11 pm

What does fighting climate change mean?
We loose. They win.

Reply to  David Kamakaris
May 27, 2021 12:29 pm

David, I’ve been asking that for years and still haven’t gotten an answer.

Giordano Milton
May 26, 2021 2:58 pm

Many species want to eat flesh. Perhaps the author wants to volunteer to be food for them

May 26, 2021 3:13 pm

The madness continues-
Explainer: What the Dutch court carbon emissions ruling means for Shell (
It’s not Royal Dutch Shell’s consumers that have to reduce their emissions but Shell. Infantile logic common to watermelons and now it infects our unelected legal jurists.

Burgher King
Reply to  observa
May 26, 2021 3:43 pm

Is the Dutch court telling Royal Dutch Shell that it must reduce production of the carbon fuels that the corporation sells worldwide by some set amount, not simply to reduce the leakage of greenhouse gases such as methane which happens as those fuels are being extracted, refined, and shipped? I presume it’s the former, not the latter; i.e., Royal Dutch Shell must reduce its total production of oil, gas, and refined petroleum products.

Reply to  observa
May 26, 2021 4:56 pm

“The district court ordered Shell to cut its absolute carbon emissions by 45% by 2030”

I think Shell should comply immediately …
They should combine with all other oil company’s & cut of 50% of ALL product sales to country’s that pass laws like that.
Let’s see how long the hypocritical politicians / law makers last, when the public get hit with astronomical prices, shortages of everything & blackouts.

Reply to  saveenergy
May 26, 2021 8:55 pm

…. and charge twice as much for the products, and give all their employees huge bonuses from the windfall profits.

May 26, 2021 3:15 pm

Affluent people can afford to be environmentally aware. The best thing for the environment is to spread prosperity (as we are actually doing) to all the peoples of the world.

If the greenies manage to bork civilization, the ensuing environmental destruction will exceed even the wildest nightmares their feeble little brains are capable of imagining.

Reply to  Eric Worrall
May 27, 2021 12:31 pm

Eric, I haven’t checked in a while, but Pournelle’s blog used to have quite a few posts of him savaging the AGW idea.

Reply to  TonyG
May 27, 2021 5:54 pm is still up. I believe his son Philip maintains it.

Reply to  commieBob
May 26, 2021 4:54 pm

Brings to mind Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.

May 26, 2021 3:18 pm

I daresay “Educating The Anthropocene” sounds impressive to your average Guardian reader ( as opposed to those of us who visit to check on the nutters ).

I want to believe that the sorts who read the Guardian aren’t as dim as the people who write for it – but honestly… there isn’t much evidence for that and I see profoundly stupid talking points regurgitated by people who one might reasonably expect to to be in possession of critical faculties allied to some subject knowledge.

Maybe it’s a tribal allegiance thing … maybe an anthropologist could investigate?

Reply to  tomo
May 26, 2021 9:00 pm

Yeah, I’ve always wondered why these dipshits can’t figure out how to virtue signal on their own without having the Guardian or the Baghdad Bob Corporation hold their hands and teach them the doom chants.

M Courtney
Reply to  tomo
May 27, 2021 4:57 am

Not true. This article had comments open for barely 3 and half hours. The comments were so disparaging it was embarrassing.
By the timing, one of my comments was one of the very last to sneak in:

And cheap energy. It was fossil fuels that led to the greatest advance in human well-being in history.

China and India are well-aware of that fact. That’s why they refuse to go back up the chart to increased deaths.

This article assumes we can persuade China to go back to famines. Even the Chinese Communist Party isn’t as inhumane as this article.

Peak Guardian?

M Courtney
Reply to  M Courtney
May 27, 2021 5:14 am

Correction: Open for 2 and half hours, not 3.

Trying to Play Nice
May 26, 2021 3:22 pm

This complete idiot watched Disney’s Bambi and Pocahontas too many times as a child. His idea of nature is absolutely stupid. There is no such thing as an “indigenous” person. Mankind has constantly migrated back and forth and different groups have shared genes because of weather and climate changes since the dawn of prehistory. The people who sustained their tribes were the lucky ones, the others are only known because of archeological digs. Sustainable living, aka subsistence living, is not pretty and certainly not safe. It wasn’t until man started extracting that our population started growing.

B Clarke
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
May 26, 2021 3:35 pm

Indigenous peoples also attacked each other for commodities, land, women ,water wiping out one tribe for another, perhaps this is what Peter wants he is a self proclaimed interventionist after all. Genocide again in another form rears its ugly head yet again from a environmentalist.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
May 26, 2021 8:53 pm

It was climate change that allowed the Amerinds to cross the isthmus that eventually became the Bearing Straight and make their way south along an ice free corridor. Who knows what “indigenous” peoples they encounteed, but they lucked out. They found a land of plenty and survived. People who romanticize their lives and fail to look at how they really lived are dangerous idiots. The “Noble Savage” is a figment of imagination.

lee riffee
May 26, 2021 3:23 pm

i can’t for the life of me understand why so many people romanticize indigenous and primitive peoples. Yes, while they may have seemed to live in harmony with nature, they also suffered from all sorts of problems that are much more easily dealt with in modern society. Imagine dying of infections and diseases that are fairly easily cured today…imagine suffering an injury and needing medical/surgical intervention and there being no anesthesia….infections with no antibiotics…cancer (well, assuming you would even live long enough to develop cancer) with certain death and no chance of a cure…childbirth with no modern intervention for mother or child….sorry, there’s nothing about all that to be romanticized or sought after!

Reply to  lee riffee
May 26, 2021 4:30 pm

Maybe Peter the Indigenous lover should give up his state funded healthcare that he believes is a “right” and make himself one step closer to nature. If he’s feeling ill, he can go suck on some leaves.

Reply to  BigAl
May 26, 2021 10:08 pm

He works for the Guardian, his health care is probably privately paid for not our wonderful NHS

Reply to  Eric Worrall
May 26, 2021 7:12 pm

Eric, Terry Pratchett’s character Cohen the Barbarian’s one thing was “soft bog roll.”

Rory Forbes
Reply to  dk_
May 26, 2021 9:01 pm

Sorry, dk_ I should have read your reply first. T-paper is king in the out doors.

Reply to  Rory Forbes
May 27, 2021 12:15 pm

Rory, I consider this, sometimes, to be a team sport. Not to worrry.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Eric Worrall
May 26, 2021 8:56 pm

Flush toilets and toilet paper are another underrated modern advantage (especially for those in the Pacific North West who first learn that Devil’s Club is not a suitable substitute for T-paper).

Reply to  lee riffee
May 27, 2021 12:34 pm

“i can’t for the life of me understand why so many people romanticize indigenous and primitive peoples.”

The problem is that these people have no concept of real hardship. Their idea of primitive living is taken from Walden and modern fiction.

Reply to  lee riffee
May 27, 2021 7:23 pm

Can these Extreme Green proponents be force parachuted into Siberia, the Kalahari or the Amazon to live indigenous? OK, give them a metal knife and fire started instead of nothing. Pick the survivors up after a year and air a new NG TV series about them.

May 26, 2021 3:27 pm

Many indigenous groups got to know their natural environments intimately and sustained themselves over millennia, often despite harsh conditions. They came to understand the limits of what these environments could support, and they grasped that caring for the environment was simultaneously an act of self-care.

A noble savage fantacist. Didn’t we call “harsh conditions” over “millenia” the stone age? “An act of self-care,” with a typical (male) life span about 25 years, and an infant mortality rate at around %75, and starvation and untreatable disease vying for the primary cause of death.
“They grasped” no such thing as “caring for the environment.” In fact, those idyllic primitives were mostly responsible for the processes of the new meaning that Sartoris assigns to “extractivism.”

Reply to  dk_
May 26, 2021 4:08 pm

Having spent some 18 years in Papua- New Guinea, & during ny work as a Police Officer visied many small settlements.

Those on the coast are far advanced in their thinking & way of life as most have boats with sails thus are in contact with the “Real World”.

But those in the Mountains are right back to the Stone Age way of living.

Some in the “West” may think that is a back to nature lifestyle & thus good. Perhaps they should try it out for a year or two…


Reply to  M.j.ellìott
May 26, 2021 4:20 pm

I’ve read some accounts similar to your experiences. I hope that I have enough remaining sense not to equate the “primitive conditions” encountered on a weekend camping trip with living in the neolithic.
Have you published an account of that time?

Reply to  M.j.ellìott
May 26, 2021 6:53 pm

They should be forced to try it out for a year or two, before insisting that we all do what they, in their infinite stupidity, insist that we do. At the very least, they need to lead by example, not try to impose their silly notions on the rest of us.

Reply to  Don
May 27, 2021 12:22 pm

Don, My arbitrary mean survival rate prediction is less than 30 days. If I had an idea that we could get an experiment running, I’d take bets on it.
Before some media completely lost their minds, there were several, mostly BBC, shows putting modern people into 19th century, and earlier, living conditions. I found the first several episodes of these entertaining, but without exception they turned into constant whining by the participants. Withdrawal and failure rates were pretty high at the beginning. And these mostly had supplied food, clothing, and shelter.
The remaining programs of this format in the U.S. and from BBC are much less entertaining, but today I’ve nearly unplugged the television, anyway.

Last edited 1 year ago by dk_
John Garrett
May 26, 2021 3:33 pm

The ExxonMobil vote demonstrates beyond any shadow of doubt that morons are now in full control of the United States.

On the same day that a Dutch court orders Royal Dutch Shell to curtail its business, it is obvious that pseudoscience and superstition have prevailed in the West.

Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin are laughing their asses off.

May 26, 2021 3:35 pm

Just another adherent to a religion of cosmological maintenance

May 26, 2021 3:46 pm

Peter Aboriginal people lived in “harmony” with nature because they knew no other way. You seem to be another white European lost in the “Nobel savage living in paradise” fallacy. They were not noble and it wasn’t paradise. Life was brutal and short. None of them want to go back.

May 26, 2021 3:50 pm

Mao and Stalin were model anti-specieists, by eliminating vast swaths of the human species. They fought valiantly again the systemic specieism that is the basis of our western society. They raised their fists against specieism!!

Windy Wilson
May 26, 2021 4:07 pm

Indigenous lifestyles and peoples like the American Plains where one could smell the aboriginal villages for miles before you arrived at them, and the people from those villages had to up tents and move every several months because after a while, even they couldn’t stand the smell or find new places to dig holds to put their waste in?
Those indigenous societies that lived in harmony with nature?

Reginald Vernon Reynolds
Reply to  Windy Wilson
May 26, 2021 6:01 pm

Good call Windy. Due to sanitation problems the plains tribe encampments were usually only a few hundred souls and as you wrote they moved every few months to clean sites. The reason Custer was caught out at his last stand was because several encampments had gathered together for a meeting and there were approximately 1250 instead of the usual two or three hundred.

Last edited 1 year ago by Reginald Vernon Reynolds
Gunga Din
May 26, 2021 4:50 pm

I just turned 67.
Over the years I’ve heard lots of wacky ideas.
PeTA people not wanting others to use insulin produced from animals.
End animal research.
Ban products tested on animals.
Back in the ’60’s there were the anti-(nuke, oil, capitalism, chemicals, God, Christ, etc., etc.) groups flying their own banners. Many sincere in supporting their cause.
CAGW has given them a common banner (or should I say, “lever”?) to achieve their aims.
Those who are sincere need to examine just who has been waving the CAGW banner and for what end?
A couple of starting point:
How many of them are poor?
How many of them are politicians?
How many of them don’t do without what they’d have you do without?
How many of them have gained wealth and/or authority at the expense of your personal freedom?
How many of them think Greta and/or AOC are wise?

Time to get “woke” for real!

May 26, 2021 4:50 pm

The Guardian is a glorified tabloid at this point, minus the entertainment value.

Reply to  Michael
May 27, 2021 6:01 pm

Stick with The Sun, it’s at least got page 3.

May 26, 2021 5:00 pm

My response to such ideas only needs two words, and it can be directed to the author, Hollywood morons, and politicians alike. “YOU FIRST.” Similarly, after Warren Buffett repeatedly telling us he could pay more taxes, I’m still waiting for him to write a $100M check addressed to US Treasury with a “thanks for everything” written on the memo line.

Joseph Zorzin
May 26, 2021 5:17 pm

“Our civilisation is underpinned by extractivism, a belief that the Earth is ours to exploit, and the nonsensical idea of infinite growth within a finite territory.”

I read a lot of business news and have never seen anyone claim that there can be infinite growth. We can always give up extractivism and return to the Paleolithic. Who’ll volunteer to go first, Mr. Sutoris? Ale Gore? Bill McKibben? Barack Obama who went from a poor college grad to a very wealthy man- I doubt he’ll want to go back to poverty. Bill Gates? In his book, Gates says we don’t need to go back to poverty, especially himself.

May 26, 2021 5:27 pm

Brown shirts with insect armbands are next.

May 26, 2021 5:28 pm

Is this what the marketing and sales model has become for subscriptions in the climate crusades?

May 26, 2021 5:34 pm

When living on Mars, we could bring back all life which has ever existed on Earth and make other kinds of life. Assuming 1/3 earth gravity is not show stopper.
The overly large dinosaurs might like Mars better.
The scale of natural underground caves on Mars could be astonishing- but if not, they could be made.

Michael P Graebner
Reply to  gbaikie
May 27, 2021 3:23 pm

No magnetic field might be a problem too.

Tom in Toronto
May 26, 2021 5:40 pm

What about COVID or Influenza? How many poor virions have been killed (or failed to find an infectable cell) in the quest for human survival?
Speciesism at its worst, I’d say! We need to cancel our racist white KillerT cells and get woke!

Reply to  Tom in Toronto
May 27, 2021 4:11 am

we have morons from PETA wanting aussies to not kill the mice we are having plagues of
they reckon let em eat and trap n release is dandy
wouldnt wanna be a PETA person round a farmer rightnow

Craig from Oz
May 26, 2021 5:59 pm

Many indigenous groups got to know their natural environments intimately and sustained themselves over millennia, often despite harsh conditions.

Important word there being ‘sustained’.

Not ‘Grew’. They ‘sustained’. Take a look for example at the pre-european human settlement in Australia. They ‘sustained’. They were hunter gatherers who basically moved constantly following the food because if they stopped they all starved to death. Let us take a moment and consider if they actually LIKED moving constantly or ever woke up one morning and thought ‘you know, it would be nice to just sit back and relax for a few days’.

On this note let us also consider the ‘indigenous groups’ that grew up in what is known as ‘The Fertile Crescent’ (aka – ‘The Cradle of Civilization’). These were groups who got to know their natural environment so intimately that they deduced that if that planted all the seeds in one spot they could later harvest them in bulk and would in practical terms end up with more food than if they gathered it from the wild.

Then, since they had spare food and no need to walk around constantly, they could develop settlements. Settlements and not walking allowed a greater birth rate (in nomadic society if you can’t walk you need to be carried, and since the average woman could only carry one non-walking infant at a time the growth rate was limited be the speed at which a child could learn to walk. see also infanticide.)

So static settlements allowed more children both by the fact you could put the infant down while you dealt with your second infant and the fact there was a food surplus and more children allowed growth. Static settlements allowed for specialisation. Static settlements allowed for people to sit down and think and invent.

(static settlements allowed a media class to develop. Ever seen a nomadic hunter gatherer society that was rich enough to allow someone to just sit back and spread gossip each day? Irony Mr Guardian. Successful society MADE YOU.)

So, while people like Mr Guardian might like to say ‘Look at these indigenous groups with their sustainment’, what they are totally ignoring is all the ‘indigenous groups’ who were smart enough to see past sustainment and moved into GROWTH.

Your little favourite indigenous group may have learned how to collect seeds without killing the host plant, but mine worked out how to sail the oceans.

Reply to  Craig from Oz
May 27, 2021 3:39 am

I’ll wager good money that this pillock Sutoris has never even been on a camping trip.

May 26, 2021 6:03 pm

“environmental connectedness of indigenous peoples”

is total bullshit

Reply to  alloytoo
May 26, 2021 6:22 pm

The sparse trees of the plains were due to indigenous tribes burning the grassland to control the migration of buffalo to locations where they could be driven over cliffs by the thousands. Not really ecologically friendly undertakings by todays standards. Of course later buffalo hunters were successful at restoring the grasslands by ridding the plains of herbiverous buffalo. /s

Smart Rock
May 26, 2021 6:12 pm

Romanticising the traditional lives of indigenous people has been a feature of our western societies ever since Jean-Jacques Rousseau came up with the “noble savage” concept. Young Sutoris is treading a very well-worn path.

Working in exploration in Canada, it’s been my privilege to meet and work with quite a number of indigenous folk, both Inuit (used to be called “eskimos”) and First Nation (used to be called “indians”). I’ve learned a few snippets about traditional medicines, and the ways of wild life, but I have yet to meet anyone from either group who has taken up their traditional lifestyle and given up the tools of the Eurocentric colonialist patriarchy. It turns out that – over the long term – living in a house with electricity, plumbing, heating etc. is actually preferable to living in a tent or an igloo. And it also turns out that living off the land is a lot easier with boats, outboard motors, ATVs, snowmobiles, guns and so on – who’d ever have guessed?

Charles Higley
May 26, 2021 6:14 pm

We are living through what scientists call the Anthropocene, “

No one who believes in the above can be called a real scientist. Period.

It is an innuendo that suggests that we have such a huge effect on the planet that it needs to have a geological name. This does not pass the smell test in any way. Complete BS.

Rampant species extinctions, not happening.
Melting ice caps and glaciers, not happening.
Warming by CO2, not happening.
Accelerating sea level rise, not happening
Great Pacific Garbage Patch, not happening.
Crops failing, not happening.
More extreme weather events, not happening.
More forest fires due to global warming, not happening.
Lots of false propaganda and false reports, happening constantly.

John Tillman
May 26, 2021 6:17 pm

Would that be the same indigenous people so living in harmony with nature that they wiped out the megafauna on every continent and oceanic island to which they wandered after leaving Africa, where the big game were hip to our tricks?

Izaak Walton
May 26, 2021 6:17 pm

You wrote: “Talk of society re-embracing indigenous lifestyles in my opinion is nonsense.” while Dr. Sutoris states Rebuilding our relationship with our planet does not mean abandoning the many achievements of our civilisation. Some of our technological innovations can help us treat the symptoms of the environmental multi-crisis. ” so it seems you two are in complete agreement.

Gordon A. Dressler
May 26, 2021 6:26 pm

Peter Sutoris of The Guardian states: “We are living through what scientists call the Anthropocene, a new geological age during which humans have become the dominant force shaping the natural environment.”

OK, Pete, do you any objective, science-based evidence—just one shred will do—that humans have “become the dominate force shaping the natural environment”? Can you see the outrageous hubris it takes to make such a claim?

Let’s use a little math (maybe horrors for you, but indispensable to put things into proportion).

Most true climate scientists will admit that solar energy input to Earth (and variability in such) is the predominate driver of climate . . . and all of it is “natural”, of course.

The total solar energy absorbed by Earth’s atmosphere, oceans and land masses is approximately 3,850,000 exajoules per year (see ).
Of course, this amount of energy input is also re-radiated to space over the same time span because Earth’s average temperature is very stable.

However, for the entire year of 2019 (the most recent data I could readily find) the total energy consumed by the world’s human population was about 173,300 TWh, or about 624 exajoules (see ), with most of this energy eventually ending up as waste heat energy put into the “natural environment”, where it too is eventually radiated to space.

Therefore, if every single bit of mankind’s use of energy in all forms—coal, oil, gas, traditional biomass, nuclear, hydropower, wind, solar, modern biofuels, geothermal,other incidental sources—was directed solely toward climate change over the course of a year, it would amount to only 624/3,850,000 = 0.016 % of the annual energy input from the Sun.

To make the comparison even more understandable, the Sun’s energy being absorbed into Earth’s total environment in just 1.5 hours is more than the total energy used by the entire population of Earth in the year 2019.

Want to reconsider your statement about humans as the dominant force shaping the natural environment? Heck, humans can’t even muster up a weak tropical storm, an ice storm, or a heat wave.

Reply to  Gordon A. Dressler
May 27, 2021 1:38 am

Thanks Gordon, I’m going to steal that !

Typo alert- should read “Pete, do you ‘have’ any objective,”

Last edited 1 year ago by 1saveenergy
Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  saveenergy
May 27, 2021 10:26 am

Thanks, duly noted!

May 26, 2021 6:42 pm

If this guy got what he wanted, and the global economy collapsed due to human or natural forces, this guy and people like him would be the first to go. The world would not have the luxury of affording people who only leach off of the productivity of others, providing nothing of value to his fellow humans.

Mike Dubrasich
May 26, 2021 8:27 pm

I will try to say this gently, so as to promote calm reflection rather than irritation. Of course modern civilization cannot return to primitive lifeways. That would be suicidal. But there are many primitive technologies that have utility to moderns.

One noted above is traditional herbal medicines. The investigation of primitive treatments and/or remedies has been a fertile field for modern pharmacology. For instance, the indigenous use of cinchona bark tea led to quinine and then to hydroxychloroquine (HCQ), which many believe to be an effective treatment for Covid.

Another is the use of fire to manipulate vegetation. Worldwide primitive cultures expertly employed deliberate burning to enhance their survival. Today we have set aside tens of millions of acres with no management, leading to a catastrophic fire crisis that has caused much death and destruction. Restoration of “traditional” burning technologies could (would) prevent much loss. It doesn’t have to be done by naked people with fire sticks, but the general concept of carefully applied fire in sites prepared to receive that fire has much merit.

We don’t need to live in wigwams and grub for roots to appreciate and use certain ancient technologies.

Last edited 1 year ago by forestermike
Steven F
Reply to  Mike Dubrasich
May 26, 2021 9:02 pm

Good points. The mental facilities of primitive societies was/is as good as our own. The difference is that we just know different things. So it isn’t surprising that they were able to learn and understand things about their environment that we can benefit from. They are/were very observant.

But they didn’t live in harmony with their environment. They used (and abused) their environment for their benefit as much as anyone. It’s just that they didn’t have the tools or population to do significant “damage.” They only sustained because it was a tough life. They would have grown their population and created civilizations if the life was easier or had they had better tools.

Reply to  Steven F
May 27, 2021 7:14 pm

Good points yourself, Steven F.

Civilizations have all tended to do the best they could with what they have and search for better. Take a look at those impressive piles of stones in Egypt. That lion thingy took a bit of doing, too. Pretty dagone good for that time, eh?

Think of what those piles of stone would have been like if Caterpillar Inc. was up and operating back then.

And don’t believe for a moment that they wouldn’t have taken full advantage of excavators, earthmovers, and bulldozers.

Stone, copper, bronze, iron, steel, titanium, and the search for improved materials has always continued.

How about the Americas? We are just now beginning to pare away the jungle growth that has hidden way more of the fairly advanced civilization’s cities than people suspected or believed was possible. How about Machu Pichu? Amazing! North America and the Mound Builders; Cahokia.

Tell you what, though. I’m beginning to think that, as now, when civilizations become so successful that people have time on their hands to spend all day dreaming up nutty ideas of how the world should be, and then the nutters manage to convince enough people that they MUST pursue those nutty ideas. those civilizations collapse… because the ideas were nutty and wrong.

We currently have a bunch of nutters once again driving civilization over the cliff.

Shoki Kaneda
May 26, 2021 8:42 pm

I am ready to sacrifice the Guardian staff if it will save a few cute animals.

May 26, 2021 9:28 pm

I am very happy for the Guardian and all of its journalists and readers to lead by example. Them first. Then the rest of us can get on with perfectly happy productive lives .

May 26, 2021 10:16 pm

We are living through what scientists call the Anthropocene

Pretty much stop reading after that first lie and will be heading over to the Guardian to complain.

Even Wiki recognises the term “Anthropocene” has been rejected by both the the International Commission on Stratigraphy and the International Union of Geological Sciences


Last edited 1 year ago by Redge
Rory Forbes
May 26, 2021 11:06 pm

Peter Sutoris is an absurd waste of skin. Dear gawd, I hope he doesn’t really believe any of that nonsense. One has to believe the perks make it possible for him to ignore his education.

May 26, 2021 11:22 pm

Is specie ism something like race ism? And science ism?

Vincent Causey
May 26, 2021 11:52 pm

What on earth does he mean by indigenous people? The Celts, Anglo Saxons, Brittans, Normans etc who have inhabited Europe for millenia? These indigenous people have created the western civilization we take for granted.

No, obviously he doesn’t mean “indigenous people” because that doesn’t fit his narrative. Maybe he’s referring to the American First Nations. Well, they did live within the bounds set by nature, but they appear to have led hard brutal lives. I’m not sure we should emulate that.

John Tillman
Reply to  Vincent Causey
May 27, 2021 6:28 pm

As everywhere else on Earth at various times, indigenous Americans practiced cannibalism. But, with limited sources of animal protein compared to other continents, it became ,more widespread here. Carib Indians gave us the term cannibal. They came out of South America to eat their way up the Antilles, but were pikers compared to Meso-American cultures.

Does Soapy Pete want us to embrace that environmentally sound cultural practice?

Reply to  Vincent Causey
May 27, 2021 7:28 pm

Ah, so no-one is indigenous to anywhere, Vincent. Everyone always came from somewhere else.

Maybe we should replace ‘indigenous’ with ‘long-timers.’

Matthew Sykes
May 27, 2021 12:10 am

Indigenous peoples…

The old ‘noble savage’ sentiment. Why is this always expressed by people sitting in comfortable well upholstered arm chairs in warm houses with running water, and with medical care, and plentiful cheap food?

All species use the planet to further their genes, it is what life does, it is our goal in life.

Is the grass growing through a crack in the pavement ‘exploiting the earth’?

Of course it is, it is entitled to do so, it is what the earth is for, just as bacteria exploit our digestive tracts, and bats exploit our roof spaces.

The Urban fox population in the UK is now 20 times that of the rural one. Foxes are exploiting man as well.

Man is part of nature, part of life, he lives in it and it lives in and around us. We cant help it.

And what ever we do, life is there right behind us, from oil eating bacteria to black fungus living off radiation in the basement of Chernobyl. There is nothing we do that is ‘unnatural’ because we are in nature, we never left the Garden of Eden.

What is unusual is that man actively cares for other species, tries to preserve them, invites them into his home. That is unique.

Reply to  Matthew Sykes
May 27, 2021 7:34 pm

Not truly unique. I was raised by wolves, according to my mother. It took her forever to undo the damage to my table manners that those wolves taught me, 😜

Stephen Wilde
May 27, 2021 2:44 am

So-called indigenous peoples were never in sustainable balance with their environments.
Those environments were always harsh, cruel and implacable such that if one aspect were favourable for a while another aspect would provide an existential threat.
Life was nasty, brutish and short with an expectation that much of that short life would be spent in ever increasing pain until death provided a release.
The natural world is hostile and seeks to kill all living things. It must be opposed with all our might.
White civilisation has had enormous success in saving the lives of all ethnicities yet is denigrated for that achievement.
Hardly anyone on the planet alive today would have lived were it not for the Agrarian and Industrial Revolutions or if they were alive their lives would be so appalling and short compared to what we all now have that they would prefer never to have been born.

Last edited 1 year ago by Stephen Wilde
May 27, 2021 4:34 am

Quote: This rapid increase in our control over the Earth has brought us to the precipice of catastrophic climate change, triggered a mass extinction, disrupted our planet’s nitrogen cycles and acidified its oceans, among other things. – article/Sutons

This guy definitely needs to get out more. Needs to be dropped off some place where there are zero resources to turn to, zero electricity available, zero water out of a spigot run by a pump, etc., etc., etc.

I’d bet the cost of a quarter-pounder with cheese & fries and a soda that he’s a closet dweller, one who only goes “outside” if it isn’t wet and gray.

What a sad little noonch he is.

Reply to  Sara
May 27, 2021 4:35 am

Sorry, misspelled name; should be Sutoris. My bad. Not enough caffeine….

Reply to  Sara
May 27, 2021 4:48 am

Re: Nessie: I was terrified of spiders most of my childhood – it was all those legs!!! – but grew out of it. Did a lot of reading on spiders. There are FAR more species of spiders on the planet than there are Hoomans, and some are as yet unclassified. They are smart enough to know how to camoflage themselves if need be, and some of the tiniest wolf spiders communicate with each other by waving brightly colored flags on their legs.
Don’t want one as a pet, but I will catch one in the house and put it outside where it belongs. They are far more useful than the Sutorises of the world.

Bruce Cobb
May 27, 2021 5:01 am

Which comes first, wokeism or rotted brain syndrome (RBS)? It’s a conundrum.

May 27, 2021 5:29 am

Let the other species go first.

May 27, 2021 6:24 am

He is nuts if he believes what he writes. And carbon capture is a forest and grass lands and even farming with machinery by the way.

It has taken a very long time for mankind to get to this point of security and comfort. No one with any sense would take this guys advice.

May 27, 2021 6:28 am

If you want an unmitigated stream of mindless and ill-informed “opinion” , you can not do better than the Guardian’s “comment is free” articles.

Also, there is no editorial control over the accuracy of articles so no point in complaining and demanding corrections. They’ll just say : hey, it commentary, not journalism.

Totally failing to recognise that their once illustrious title has become nothing but a politically motivated comment platform.

There is really no point in even writing a WUWT post criticising or correcting such garbage, it’s like arguing against Twitter content.

Andy Pattullo
May 27, 2021 6:41 am

I am sure this was an introduction to another episode of the Twilight Zone.

May 27, 2021 6:47 am

Luddites may not like it, anti-humanists may cringe, but Mother Earth has put all her eggs in one basket managed by humans. Humans are the only species (not counting our evolved descendants) potentially capable and likely to ever be capable of spreading earth life to other worlds, and hopefully worlds around other stars eventually.

Humans are special, the egg-makers and egg carriers. We are the Earth’s reproductive organs. And that means we need to take our role very seriously. Ultimately, on the scale of billions of years, humans don’t matter specifically as a species. But what we do can launch other species into trajectories of great opportunity for new development not possible on Earth. The simplest organisms have the greatest chance of making new and wonderful things perhaps a billion years from now. Things we will never see. The potential interactions between Earth life and native life on other worlds could result in symbiotic relationships providing capabilities neither form of life alone could manage. Symbiosis transformed Earth. It gave us an oxygen atmosphere and photosynthesis as used in green plants (not archaea).

If we do nothing, Earth will become more difficult to live on in 100 million years, and most life will be gone in 1 billion years. By 500 million years or so, the oceans will start evaporating under a hotter Sun. Earth itself will be swallowed by the Sun in 5 billion years.

The Left can whine and gripe about the “wasted” energy due to human activity. However, consider the energy most plants devote to reproduction. We are learning to do better. And it takes quite a bit of energy to clean up what we do. That’s one reason why developing countries pollute so much; they can’t afford to spend as much as we do on cleanup.

What better legacy to leave? Humans saving Earth life from complete extinction and planting new seeds of Earth life on other worlds..

Last edited 1 year ago by Hoser
John Kelly
May 27, 2021 7:24 am

I’ve had a lot to do with indigenous communities over the years; in Australia and in South America. Clearly the author of this article lives in a city and has never visited an indigenous community. Sure there are great stories of how they respect the earth and nature in general. But in practical terms this respect doesn’t exist. That’s why in camps/towns the accumulation of rubbish has got to be seen to be believed. I guess 100 years ago they could throw their rubbish on the ground and it would rot, being bones, food scraps, etc. Today the rubbish is thrown on the ground and its plastic or glass bottles. Not so biodegradable. Years ago I went for a drive with a local indigenous elder checking out his country in FNQ. He had such amazing eyesight and a knowledge of all the trees and birds. Imagine my horror when he finished drinking a bottle of water, wound his window down and tossed the empty bottle out of the car! In South America there is a wonderful concept called the “Pachamama” or the “Earth Mother.” She is the spirit of the land and is “revered”, except to the point that rubbish generation is at extraordinary levels. I hate to think of the poor tourists visiting and looking for signs of the Pachamama; because as they drive or cycle along the Altiplano all they will see is piles of rubbish dumped on the side of the highway. In Bolivia right now there is a young French tourist who has seen the rubbish problem and actually done something about it. He has mobilised hundreds of people to clean up the woke coke bottles from lakes and rivers. One lake, Lago Uru Uru, a declared RAMSAR wetland, had been declared dead due to the pollution in it. The Uru Uru people have been complaining about the state of their lake for years. But did they do anything practical to fix it? No, of course not, they just complained to a government that praises the Pachamama and then does nothing to help her. This wonderful young bloke cares far more for the Pachamama than any indigenous in Bolivia. But at least he has woken a few people up.

May 27, 2021 8:19 am

“Many indigenous groups got to know their natural environments intimately and sustained themselves over millennia, often despite harsh conditions.”

These loons have absolutely no clue how “harsh” that lifestyle actually was. I would bet most of them wouldn’t last a week.

Jim Whelan
Reply to  TonyG
May 27, 2021 10:09 am

“intimately” knowing their natural environment included a lot of being killed, maimed and poisoned. Can’t get much more intimate than that.

May 27, 2021 9:23 am

David good whose mother is Yanomami amazon Indian woman and father is American anthropologist likes visiting the amazon and living in NJ . interesting YouTube story .

Jim Whelan
May 27, 2021 10:11 am

In the not too distant past the village idiots were just ignored. Now they get their rantings published in newspapers.

Schrodinger's Cat
May 27, 2021 11:17 am

Amusingly, he is right, but not in the way he intended. All the money men suddenly have solutions to the climate problems. Too much CO2 ? Don’t worry, we can suck it up and lock it away. A replacement for fossil fuels needed? Don’t worry try our hydrogen, it will go with a bang. Geo-engineering? We can spray the atmosphere with Bull****, that should do the trick.

All of these solutions will work well at subsidy harvesting then they and the money men will melt away long before delivery time arrives.

It is almost funny. The Guardian helped to fuel the climate scam. Now scammers are cashing in on governments desperate to find solutions. The Guardian is now worried that the scam solutions are reducing the alarmist fear factor with the promise of (fake) solutions.

So the scammers are being out-scammed. It couldn’t happen to nicer people. But it is not all funny. The losers in every case are the consumers and taxpayers who have to foot the bill for gullible politicians who have no grasp of the flawed science.

Walter Sobchak
May 27, 2021 5:51 pm

Blah, Blah, Blah. They never volunteer to move to the Congo and live with the truly poor people. Do they?

May 27, 2021 6:24 pm

Since Peter dislikes the human race so much he is entirely welcome to commit suicide and end his dreadful existence. There have been more than a few cute suggestions as to how he could be useful as food for other animal species.

Joel Snider
May 27, 2021 8:18 pm

‘Specist’ – it’s the new racism.
Y’know – you’re kinda ‘sposed to put your own species first.
Progressives have actually managed to turn opposing putting the benefit of the human race first into a virtual signal.
Is this evil yet?

sky king
May 28, 2021 12:59 am

“The Noble Savage”. How 17th Century!

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