Guest essay by Eric Worrall
A horror Tesla crash in Houston involving an auto-pilot Tesla car has claimed two lives. According to firefighters, the high energy batteries kept re-igniting – firefighters attempted to douse the battery fire for four hours, pouring 30,000 gallons of water onto the fire, before giving up and letting the fire burn itself out.
2 dead after fiery crash involving self-driving Tesla, authorities said
Monday, April 19, 2021 7:00AM
SPRING, Texas (KTRK) — Two people died in a fiery crash involving a 2019 Tesla Model S and its autopilot functionality while taking it for a test drive on Saturday night, according to authorities.
The flames reportedly took hours to extinguish, and Harris County Precinct 4 Constable Mark Herman said the investigation has led them to believe that there was no one driving the car when the crash occurred.
The crash happened just after 9 p.m. on Hammock Dunes Place in the Carlton Woods Creekside subdivision. The victims were said to have been a 59 and 69-year-old man, however police have not released their names yet.
…
The batteries on board the Tesla continued to ignite despite efforts to douse the flames, authorities said. It reportedly took around four hours and more than 30,000 gallons of water before firefighters decided to let the fire burn itself out.
…
Read more: https://abc13.com/2-killed-in-fiery-tesla-crash-that-took-4-hours-to-extinguish/10525148/
It is unclear at this stage what caused the crash, though investigators have stated they believe no one was driving when the crash occurred. It is also not clear what the cause of death was.
Given the duration and intensity of the blaze, I’m guessing the only detailed data available might be whatever the autopilot uploaded to the Tesla mothership before it was consumed by the fire.
The lithium in Tesla batteries creates a fire which is far more dangerous than a gasoline fire, and almost impossible to extinguish. Think twice before you park a Tesla in your home garage – if the battery ignites, and firefighters cannot extinguish the blaze, you could lose the house.
Even if your house structure survives the fire, acute exposure to the smoke and lithium contamination of the house and surrounds could be an issue – lithium poisoning can cause long term dementia like neurological problems (pyramidal cell dysfunction), along with problems with speech and muscle weakness.
Lets just say if I see a big Lithium fire, I’m not planning to hang around and breath in the smoke.
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
It’s a problem that as been known about for long time, hence the advance to contain rather than put out. And your doing squat with water in these cases.
And Zhou Dumb Biden wants replace the entire U.S. Government GSA fleet with these.
Good luck, we will need it.
Now, that could be one of those evil plans that turns around and does some good.
I hereby assert first use of the soon to become common meme “Crispycrats.” (Generously placed into the public domain.)
He signed an EO today outlawing use of the term “Wuhan Flu” in the entire federal government.
If your gas tank catches fire in your car in your garage your home is going up in flames, period … unless you have an active fire suppression system in your home, which almost nobody has.
The fire in a lithuim battery is NOT “much more dangerous” than a gasoline fire. A fire from a gas tank can explode and release far more energy instantaneously than any lithium battery can ever do. Gasoline also being liquid splashes on stuff once the tank ruptures, and then whatever the liquid gasoline gets on then becomes extremely flammable – like people, or vehicle interiors. A lithium battery fire cannot do that.
If you doubt the dangers posed by ordinary gasoline, just be aware that most fatal aircraft accidents in which the initial impact does not cause immediate death, most deaths result from the post-crash fire. This applies to both gasoline-powered light aircraft, as well as jet fuel powered turbine or jet powered aircraft. The loss of the twin towers on 9.11.01 was NOT due to the impact of the airliners crashing into the buildings – the towers went down due to the immense heat generated by the post crash fires, which softened the steel frames of the two buildings enough to cause them to collapse.
Also, Tesla’s “AutoPilot” is not designed to self drive the car … it is strictly a driver assistance tool for use in matching vehicle speed to surrounding traffic speed, and assisting the driver in keeping the vehicle within well lit, well marked travel lanes. Not the situation this particular vehicle was in.
Non sequitur. There are roughly 1 billion ICE vehicles in use worldwide. Easily >10 billion have been built. If gas tanks spontaneously catching fire while parked, engine off in a garage was a problem, there would be worldwide fire protection codes (e.g., NFPA) addressing the risk. Are there? Crickets. However, with relatively few Tesla’s in existence, there are reports of them spontaneously igniting while sitting still and not in use. Of course, if someone is foolish enough to buy one, then they are foolish enough to park in a garage attached to their home. … or depend on a driving assistance system. Adds new meaning to the phrase “asleep at the wheel.”
“ However, with relatively few Tesla’s in existence, there are reports of them spontaneously igniting while sitting still and not in use.”
How many? Seriously how many are exploding in garages while parked? It happens, but it is extremely rare. All new technology has it’s problems, so why should EV’s be any different. The people who crashed this car were not using the auto pilot as the manufacturer intended and as a result paid the ultimate price. How often does that happen with other products around the world?
Sadly once again Eric shows his distain for Tesla. It’s as though he sits around waiting for another problem to emerge so he can highlight it to the world. All the time he admits he hasn’t even been in or driven one. Me thinks the fire he is really trying to put out is the development and uptake of EV technology and production around the world. Good luck with that. They have their faults and limitations at this point, but at the rate they are improving, it is only a a matter of time before they dominate then finish off ICE engines. If you think I am wrong save this post, then come back to it in 10 years….
Poor simon.. pretending to be a wack-a-mole yet again
DELUSIONAL to the end. !
Simon, it is one thing to say EVs are improving and quite another to claim that internal combustion engines will be “finished off” some time in the future. ICE vehicles still have a lower cost of manufacturing and ownership than an EV. ICE vehicles can still go further and for longer than an EV. I might give an inch to the claim that ICE vehicles will disappear in the (distant) future if we lived in an age of ever-increasing energy abundance. We don’t live in such an age yet because of heavy-handed regulations on nuclear and hydro power as well as weak promises of future technology like fusion. So long as electricity cannot be produced at a lower cost and in high abundance, fossil fuels will continue to be the dominant sources of reliable power for vehicles. I will only change my mind when (1) the US federal government loosens its death grip on nuclear power, and (2) states start building nuclear power plants.
I agree with you on nuclear. It is the logical solution to this problem.
Hello, Simon. The development and ubiquitous uptake of computers and smartphones is not necessarily an indicator that improvements in electric car technology will be similarly dramatic. The biggest obstacle to the adoption of electric cars is that ICE cars are so good already.
The trouble with price is not that electric cars cost more. The trouble is, they cost a lot more. 60 percent more in many cases. And that’s for new cars. Most people buy cars used. In Western Canada, where I live, the cheapest electric car you can buy is at least $40,000. You can buy an insurable, safety inspected, used ICE car for $4,000. That’s a price factor of 10. There is no way to close that gap unless governments just make ICE cars illegal, which of course would shut most citizens out of car ownership itself.
The trouble with utility is not that ICE cars are more reliable. The trouble is they are far more reliable. You can gas them up anywhere, and they have ranges-to-refuel of 300 miles.
When Apple began marketing smart phones, there were no competing existing technologies. Electric cars must displace existing ICE cars that are far cheaper and more reliable. That will not happen without top-down, centralized government interference in the markets that will be massively unpopular with all the people who will lose the right to buy affordable cars.
“The trouble is, they cost a lot more. 60 percent more in many cases.”
While it is true that electric cars are on average more expensive, they do have significant advantages over ICE cars and that’s even now at the early stage. They cost less to maintain. No oil changes,spark plugs, tune ups etc. You don’t need to visit a gas station as you have the convenience of charging at home. And daily running costs are much cheaper so over the life of the car you would drag a lot of that initial expense back, if not all of it.
And you are not comparing apples with apples. There is not an ICE car on the market can compare with a Tesla 3 in that price range. I’m talking performance and bleeding edge tech. If you think I’m wrong name one.
Take a look at the number of EV’s being released by the largest and most respected car makers on the planet. The latest Mercedes is a damned fine car and is one of many to hit the streets over the next few years. Just saying…
But Simon, the Tesla 3 program is failing. Tesla can’t fill the orders, and every time they do fill an order they lose money.
Suppose for the sake of argument that a Tesla is as good a car as an ICE car in the same price range. (Which it isn’t, because you can fuel the ICE car anywhere in a matter of minutes.) The manufacturer of the ICE car sold it at a profit. Tesla’s business model is wildly unsustainable. Tesla would collapse without government subsidies to prop it up.
And I’ll tell you again, as you’ve ignored my strongest point: Most people buy used cars, because they can’t afford $20,000 for a new car. Tesla has no hope of selling cars to most people, even at a loss.
Ian
sorry but you make no sense. Tesla shares are particularly strong at the moment because they are making amazing cars at a profit. I think the last four quarters have been positive and it is only gonna get better. Bring on the Tesla 2 and we have a far cheaper car that will compete with the runarounds.
Grandchild “grandpa is it true you couldn’t fuel the old ICE cars as you slept like we can now? And that you had to take them to a special place to “fill them up?” Wow.”
And I note your couldn’t name a single ICE car that can buy that will perform like a tesla in the same price bracket.
From the above article: “Think twice before you park a Tesla in your home garage – if the battery ignites, and firefighters cannot extinguish the blaze, you could lose the house.”
Hmmmm . . . while this is true, I think these two statements, also from the above article might also engender some concern: “. . . the investigation has led them to believe that there was no one driving the car when the crash occurred . . . The victims were said to have been a 59 and 69-year-old man.”
Just what was the person in the driver’s seat doing at the time of the crash? Sleeping???
Just one more example that the Tesla Autopilot has been given a misnomer, and that safe, fully-autonomous passenger car driving is still not ready for prime time.
The term “autopilot” does not imply total autonomous vehicle control. The term originated in aircraft and aircraft autopilots are never intended to replace the pilot.
“…the investigation has led them to believe that there was no one driving the car when the crash occurred…” does this imply the driver seat was empty or just that they suspect the driver fell asleep?
Many new cars offer smart cruise with auto-braking and autonomous lane keeping. I’m sure they are just as susceptible to driver falling asleep as Tesla.
People fall asleep in non-autonomous cars all the time. Once a van ahead of me in morning commute drifted right and crashed obliquely into the overpass bridge barrier, it was obvious he just fell asleep. Fortunately he was only doing about 30 mph. Its possible that drivers might be more likely to fall asleep while using autonomous features but I haven’t seen any studies about that.
But with autonomous cars, you at least have some chance to wake up and recover before loss of control. Don’t know about Tesla, but my car makes a dinging noise if you have lane keeping turned on and your hands come off the wheel for more than 15 seconds or so. Not sure if the wheel itself has tactile sensors or if it just detects force in the steering shaft, but it works pretty well. I’ve never kept my hands off longer to see what happens – maybe the dinging gets progressively louder or maybe the car will be gradually commanded to slow down and stop? I would hope it would slow and stop the car (and turn on hazard flashers while doing that)…
menace posted: ” . . . and aircraft autopilots are never intended to replace the pilot.”
Well, perhaps you missed seeing this notice of completely autonomous autopilot demonstration flights—from takeoff through landing—using the new Airbus A350-1000 XWB commercial passenger jet:
https://www.businessinsider.com/airbus-completes-autonomous-taxi-take-off-and-landing-tests-2020-7
According to the article at least 30 fully autonomous test flights were performed for the complete takeoff-to-landing cycle.
Maybe Airbus is just playing in the sandbox, maybe not.
Self-driving cars should never be allowed on public roads, period. The computers that control them are too susceptible to elementary errors that even the most inexperienced human drivers easily avoid. While all injuries or deaths in traffic accidents are tragic, human drivers who cause accidents can be held legally responsible. But who is responsible if a pedestrian or bicyclist gets flattened by a robot, or if a law-abiding driver or passenger in another car is killed by a robot that ran a red light or stop sign?
When LiIon burns, it isn’t mainly the lithium. The anode is a carbon graphite, and the electrolyte is an organic solvent. Both are very flammable. The reason the battery fire cannot be put out is that the stored energy will reignite any breached cell exposed to oxygen. And the heat of combustion of a burning cell guarantees adjacent cells will rupture.
To get a balanced view, put this in perspective: “In 2019, there were around 189,500 highway vehicle fires reported in the United States. This is a slight increase form the previous year, where there were 181,500 highway vehicle fires reported.” Are Telsa fires way outside the expected numbers given the EVs on the road? I don’t know but that’s a question to ask.
Okay, the two occupants were idiots if no one was in the drivers seat. That is a given.
It is also a given that Tesla has played a role in this. The Tesla autopilot is a ~10K option on their vehicles and has been for years. Except, obviously, it isn’t an autopilot even though they have been promised the feature would be operational in 2018,19,20 and now 21. This is beyond deceptive on the part of Tesla and they should be held accountable.
I have Mercedes Distronic Plus on my vehicle. It steers and brakes as well as alerts to immediate hazards and some cross traffic situations. It also senses hands on the wheel, driver input and will turn on the road hazard flashers and stop the car if does not sense driver input after 15 seconds. It was a $2800 option and many newer vehicles have a similar system. There is nothing autonomous about it and these features are never advertised as such by any manufacturer other than Tesla.
As you go up the periodic table: Potassium – handle with care, Sodium – and water – high school chemistry demonstration – “Crack”. Then comes Lithium – even more active.
Just what the heck do they expect?
Saw a trivia question recently …
Q: how do you put on a lithium battery fire in an EV ?
A: you don’t
Lithium fires are quenched only by smothering. A large pile of sand will do it.
Applying water makes the fire hotter and also releases hydrogen gas.
First think my son learned as volunteer firefighter
be very careful when attending to an EV crash
Judging by the way political leaders and watchdogs ignored the insurance-paid opioid crisis that started to show up in declining life expectancy numbers overall, it will take a long time for auto safety to wake up.
So autopilot and driver assist should be renamed what? ‘dangerous feature’ or maybe ‘cool sounding death ride’
In China they seem to get quick response from Tesla on changes. The same goes for Apple and others.
Autopilot and driver assist should be renamed ‘assisted suicide’. Perhaps stretches of road could be zoned for this – all you need is a bend, a couple of trees and a bit of a slope into a deep lake – sorted! sarc
I wonder how much crap that fire pumped into the atmosphere as compared to a similar sized gas driven car?
Thomas Sowell wrote about unintended consequences. And I was wondering what horrors we’ll discover about electric cars. I fear this won’t be the only one.
Do we need another federal stimulus to pay for the giant AV sand trucks that dump high volumes of sand on the AV and EV fires. The law will have to be written so no union jobs are lost in the process. Union jobs and salaries could rise as backup operators of the sand trucks. Just don’t get in the way of the AV sand truck as it barrels out to the crash site.
Thanks Eric, good summary. The crash was very close to my house here in The Woodlands. Supposedly, the auto pilot missed the turn and ran into a tree. There were dangerous fumes, and the local Hazmat team was called to the scene.
Here is an article from our local paper that has a lot more pictures: https://montgomerycountypolicereporter.com/tesla-has-instructions-for-firefighters-to-fight-tesla-fires/
From the article: “Think twice before you park a Tesla in your home garage”
You’ll just have to let the Tesla burn itself out in the garage, if you leave it in there and it catches fire.
What about a 100-EV pileup on an icy or snowy road? That would be one heck of a fire. We had two such pileups during the cold weather back in February. Fortunatly, none of the vehicles involved were rolling lithium firebombs
According to Tesla Autopilot was not on at the time of the accident and the card did not have full self doing. Also Teslasays autopilot would not have turned on since the road had no lain markings, The seatbelt was unbuckled and. Furthermore when autopilot iron the driver must keep their hands on the steering wheel at all times. if the driver takes his hand off the stearingwheel autopilot would stop the car and park on the side of the road.
I didn’t know the seatbelt was unbuckled – another poster suggested that autopilot wouldn’t engage if the seatbelt wasn’t buckled. Also, the system checks if there is weight in the drivers seat but Tesla didn’t say that the autopilot wouldn’t engage if there were no lane markings, just that the autopilot couldn’t navigate turns if there were no lane markings – which seems to be what happened here. If the front passenger kept touching the steering wheel and they had something heavy in the drivers seat (or the rear passenger pushed down on the driving seat) they might have been able to circumvent the safety features. Just goes to show that foolproof doesn’t mean damn fool proof.
Here’s how Dutch firefighters deal with battery fires.
The story has been updated and Tesla (specifically Elon) has stated that car did not have auto-pilot installed so couldn’t have used it. The report about there not being a driver is only based on the fire and police making an assumption on the positions of the two men after the crash. The crash could’ve ejected the driver elsewhere in the car.
Question: In the picture above the driver’s side rear tire appears undamaged following the fire. How did the driver’s side rear tire survive the fire?
yesterday firefighters said that the care was bonfire when they got there and put it out in a couple of minutes and at that ftime discovered the victums. Also they followed Teslas recommendation for the battery. They occationallycooled the battery with water until it was no longer generating heat.
This story was full of lies or assumptions.
They make stainless steel that can reenter the atmosphere but they can’t add a shield between the batteries and car space to protect people inside?
I’m sure they could. What would it cost?