NiFe (aka Edison) Batteries and Renewable False Hopes
By Rud Istvan
This post was inspired yet again by another Charles email alerting me to a new BBC post. He referred it knowing that I have some expertise in energy storage systems and their related materials. So, I dug around, then called him and said, YUP, another possibly sardonic guest post. So here we go.
The new BBC article is yet another in an innumerable series of MSM attempts to ‘future’ solve one of two fundamental inherent deficiencies in renewable wind and solar—intermittency. (The other is grid inertia.) For a different set of intermittency battery ‘solutions’ see essay California Dreaming in my ebook Blowing Smoke. BBC now touts the “battrolyzer”, a nickel/iron battery invented by Junger in 1899 as a less toxic but similar electrochemistry to NiCad, (nickel/cadmium), adopted by Thomas Edison for electric vehicles in 1901, and now enhanced to maximize byproduct hydrogen, which together will solve the intermittency problem. This is NOT new electrochemistry news; rather, a completely ignorant MSM ‘GND’ piece based solely on Delft University puff PR. Bad reporting of bad reporting; the GND echo chamber remains very loud.
The Nickel(oxide/hydroxide)/Iron battery was invented by the Swede Junger about 120 years ago as an environmentally friendlier alternative (same electrochemistry) to NiCad (popular in the 1980’s to early 1990’s, now for all intents and purposes environmentally gone because cadmium IS toxic). Iron replaced Cadmium, with some ‘disadvantages’ noted below. Thomas Edison (TE) championed it for his electric vehicles in 1901; unfortunately for TE, gasoline soon won out for many reasons including energy density and cost. NiFe battery chemistry remained in US production until about 1975 for specialty applications like railroad signaling (performance details below), and it still remains in Chinese production (cost details below).
The reason BBC became excited about the new University of Delft PR was that NiFe not only stores electricity, on charging it also electrolyzes the water-based electrolyte and produces hydrogen. So do Lead Acid, (PbA), batteries but to a much lesser extent. For TE electric 1901 vehicles, explosive hydrogen was a problem. Per BBC, this is now a terrific advantage. So, we have to divvy up the new BBC article into two parts: grid storage batteries, and hydrogen.
NiFe as a grid battery
The basics are that Iron(Fe) is the anode, and Nickel(oxide/hydroxide) is the cathode. The electrochemical charge shuttle is like NiCad, a standard oxygen mediated redox. The typical electrolyte is aqueous potassium hydroxide (hence the hydrogen electrolysis). An advantage over lead acid (PbA) chemistry is tolerance of overcharge/overdischarge giving long life, about 20 years rather than maybe 4-5 in babied PbA (golf cart/trolling motor deep cycle batteries). Depth of Discharge (DoD) for 20 years NiFe cycle life is about 80%. All wonderful—BUT.
Battery details matter. The Ni/Fe charge/discharge rate is VERY slow, unlike PbA. A full charge from 80% DoD discharge takes about 7.5 hours (in energy storage terms, a slow C rate). So unlike TE’s hopes, could NEVER have been used as a car starter battery requiring high currents for a short period (a high discharge C rate). The charging efficiency is only about 65%, the discharge efficiency is only about 85%. Translation, NiFe is not only inefficient, it therefore heats up a lot in use both ways. Heat is a big problem with large grid scale batteries.
The nominal voltage of a single NiFe cell is 1.2V, so unlike a standard 12V 6 cell PbA, 12V NiFe requires 10 cells. That is why it is about 30% more expensive per 12V at any AH. More cells, more battery, so more cost for equivalent capacity.
Another problem. Unlike PbA or LiIon, the self-discharge of NiFe is a bit more than 1% per day, or 30-40% per month depending on details and ambient temperatures (that darned electrochemical Nernst equation again). So if it just sits finally charged waiting on the next UK grid wind outage, after a month UK can write off about a third of its previously stored capacity.
Another big problem is based on current Chinese NiFe production pricing. A simple industrial 24V effective 2.2KWh capacity battery presently costs $2107. So to get close to UK grid voltage (using Kip Hansen reasoning) by wiring two in series to get 48V (close enough for this example), it costs ($4214/2.2KWh amortized over ~20 years or ~$0.96/KWh ignoring interest. Even in super expensive Germany thanks to its renewable Energiewende, it is now ‘only’ about $0.30/KWh. That is about 3x higher cost than Germany for this ‘new’ BBC ‘solution’ in the best case.
NiFe as a hydrogen generator
There are many problems with hydrogen. See essay Hydrogen Hype in my aforementioned ebook for a vehicular take. One of the disadvantages of the 1901 Edison NiFe battery was its hydrogen generation. Delft now tries to turn that into a grid advantage by optimizing to coproduce H2 fuel from excess renewable electricity during NiFe charging. Hence Delft’s catchy new name ‘battrolyzer’.
There are a few very basic hydrogen problems. Foremost, electrolysis efficiency is at best ~70%. That may also explain Delft’s NiFe charging efficiency of only ~65%.
Bigger problems arise in storing any generated hydrogen. There is a very well-known problem in iron and steel containment (pipes, tanks) called hydrogen embrittlement. The first paper on it was published in 1875. Now, there are partial solutions using exotic coatings. The general class is called ‘hydrogen penetration barriers’. These are mostly top secret and cost insensitive, since developed mainly by Los Alamos to conserve tritium in (hopefully) inactive hydrogen bombs.
Storing hydrogen as a liquid is possible, but wastes incredible chilling electricity. To merely compress it loses ‘only’ about 10% (as we all know from bicycle tire pumps and high school chemistry where PV/T=k). Compressing a gas heats it up, and that heat is wasted.
IF we could somehow efficiently and safely store bulk hydrogen from grid scale renewable battrolyzers, we would still have major engineering problems. The BBC/MSM fad in the UK is to replace natgas with ‘clean’ hydrogen, somehow produced. That ignores the hydrogen embrittlement and hydrogen leak distribution pipe problems from chemistry’s smallest and most mobile/permeable atom.
So, two possible ‘tandem’ solutions are maybe present together. First, somehow safely store grid scale bulk hydrogen byproduct in situ. A new permeability coating non-H-bomb related. Then, either burn it in a gas turbine with just steam exhaust, or consume it in a fuel cell (see essay Hydrogen Hype for fuel cell considerable net thermodynamic difficulties). The only problems are, we dunno how to do the first except for H-bombs, and for the second the thermal regeneration efficiency is still at best about 60%.
So, BBC implicitly suggests we use a battrolyzer to compressively store green ~30% of wind nameplate capacity (its capacity factor) at a battrolyzer efficiency of maybe 65%, netting (0.3*0.65*0.9) ~18% energy storage efficiency. Then we use that at about at best ~60% efficiency to regenerate electricity for the grid, a net round trip efficiency of maybe (0.18*0.6) 0.11% from the originally subsidized renewable generation. What a great deal–NOT.
In the US, we have just learned from the Biden administration that such simple math as this, and then showing its homework, is racist. This post therefore also explains why that warped view is now the prevailing GND ‘wisdom’. According to the BBC battrolyzer math, 2+2=5–(or just for GND battrolyzers =3).
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Rud, as an interesting side note, one of my favorite places I’ve visited is Como Italy, lake Como is amazing, but on the shore is a museum to Alexander Volta with many interesting exhibits of batteries and meters and other apparatus.
If ever in northern Italy
Been there, done that, while living in Munich. Great weekend getaway spot.
The little renewable energy forum I visit has been talking about NiFe batteries since forever.
Despite being Rabidly Green in outlook, contributors there don’t rate them.
Their ‘best battery’ is the Lead-Acid type found powering fork-lift (stacker) trucks.
But = A Lifestyle Choice. They need endless care & attention and DO NOT ever put a big one within 50 metres of your house.
Nickel is getting expensive (just look at the crazy prices now of NiMH rechargeable torch batteries – they were dirt cheap 10 years ago) and there’s not an especially lot of the Nickel just laying around around – world estimate = 300 million tonnes total
Compare: 7 Million tonnes of Cobalt in World toto
Plenty Iron in The World you’d think but then again, why is the physical and mental health of soooo many people nowadays trashed by Anaemia.
Mix Iron deficiency with Vitamin B deficiency (plant eating) andy ou get hideous childhood dementia(s)
yet another crazy thing
I always wonder, why don’t we use some of the Trapped Heat that CO2 so carefully stores for us……..
Back with dementia briefly to end on…
How often is it noted that pets, especially pet dogs, take on the personality of their owners?
If you do subscribe to that theory: This Is Scary
0.18*0.6) 0.11% Is a typo. Should be ~11%
Yup. My bad in haste.
The reality is that if it was that good we would all have been doing it years ago.
The difference between RealEngineers™ and ArtStudents™ (who populate the BBC and the media) is that ArtStudents™ think engineering is easy, you just specify the problem and pay a grease monkey to come up with the solution. RealEngineers™ know that in the RealWorld™ (a space devoid of ArtStudents™), mostly what physics , material science and engineering tells you is a million reasons why any given bright idea will not work, and then, of the few that are left, cost benefit analysis (a concept wholly alien to ArtStudents™, who are all paid with SomeoneElsesMoney™) rejects all but one or two, that both will work, and are cost effective solutions.
Which is why, in the RealWorld™m you will find that one airliner looks very much like another, and all bear more than a passing resemblance to seagulls. It happens to be the One Most Efficient aerodynamic and structural form for flying in BigOpenSpaces.
In engineering, the last thing you want is ‘diversity’ for its own sake.
Windmills and batrteries are hundreds of years old technology. We know pretty much all the limiting factors. Which is why we ended up with steam engines and internal combustion engines.
Until the world got taken over by ArtStudents™.
brian.jackson10@talktalk.net
Absolutely brilliant real world summation.
Brian H Jackson UK, Mining Engineer, retired.
The handmaiden of engineering is economics whereas for the arts it’s the handout.
Thank you. Some typos towards the end – superfluous commas – leading to 11% not 0,11%.
If a NiFe battery releases more hydrogen than a lead-acid battery, then the hydrogen would tend to build up pressure in the battery casing. Lead-acid batteries have removable caps so that water can be added to make up for lost electrolyte, and if there is too much hydrogen generated, the caps can be blown off. How does a NiFe battery protect against pressure buildup from hydrogen?
Lead-acid batteries, typically used in cars, use dilute sulfuric acid as an electrolyte, and sulfuric acid can easily be dissociated into H+ and either bisulfate (HSO4-) or sulfate (SO4=) ions. But if the electrolyte in a NiFe battery is aqueous potassium hydroxide (KOH), a very strong base, how is free hydrogen generated? In solution, KOH will dissociate into K+ and OH- ions–how is free hydrogen generated in a highly alkaline solution?
Electrolysis of ANY aqueous dilute salt solution gives of hydrogen and oxygen.
Let me explain economy of scale of scale in economy of scale in the context of stationary power plants.
One 1000 MWe nuke plant with lower ghg emissions than a 5 MWe wind wind turbine will produce more electricity over the life of the each unit than 1,800 wind turbines. This is because of 3 times the capacity factor and 3 times the life of the plant.
The output of a nuke plant is not linear but based on the square of the radius of the reactor vessel. My last nuke plant in China was a 1600 MWe standard design EPR. Two are now running and civil work is complete for 6 more when the Chinese are ready to build them.
At another site, one EPR is being built next to two 800 MWe BWR like the ones I started up in the 80’s. The EPR building is a little bigger.
No batteries are required to store electricity. LWR load follow very nicely. I have operational experience on navy PWR and commercial BWR, and design experience on the EPR.
So there are different ways to achieve economy of scale besides construction. Maintenance must be considered. It takes about the same amount of time to change the oil on my Honda Civic Del Sol (4 quarts) as my Cummins ISB diesel (16 quarts) for m y motorhome.
Which one gets the job done by pulling the other?
A small class of people are battery snobs. They like to brag about how much they spend..
Batteries are batteries. Good at storing a very small amount of electricity.
I will admit that many years ago I did spend more for a Sears DieHard. Made a good movie title for those who enjoy suspending reality. Now I go to Walmart and buy the cheapest battery with the same capacity.
Then I got a sailboat. Batteries are safety equipment. Twice I have rendered assistance to inexperienced boaters (aka idiots). The first time there were children on board and it was very dark when the Coast Guard arrived. The second time when I got Mr. Expensive boat to safety he gave safety, he gave me his business card. If I had known he was a California personal injury trial attorney, he would still be waiting for the coast guard. At one point in the ordeal when he would not listen to my advice, I asked him if he knew what a eunuch was.
Any how, each time I needed to replace one of the batteries on my boat I researched the subject. Large marine batteries are either expensive or very expensive. I choose the former getting a standard marine PbA.
By taking care of then I have got them to last 8 seasons. Since the last two failed with a hydrogen explosion. Of course, the lesson after the first failure is to replace before it fails.
When I retired I got a classic motorhome (aka old). With 4 golf cart batteries and a big inverter, I can power a microwave and only need to run a generator for about an hour once a day if I conserve.
I can get the job done with 4 GC2 batteries for $100 each from Sam’s Club. Boring! If I spent $4000 on Lithium ion, I could explain my tech savvy. Then I can talk about my solar PV and my Tesla.
Wait a minute, I could just talk about my career in a disruptive technology called nuclear power.
EV and windmills were superseded by by disruptive technology along time ago.