How does the Johnson & Johnson vaccine compare to other coronavirus vaccines? 4 questions answered

Maureen Ferran, Rochester Institute of Technology

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has authorized the use of the Johnson & Johnson coronavirus vaccine in adults. Maureen Ferran, a virologist at the Rochester Institute of Technology, explains how this third authorized vaccine works and explores the differences between it and the Moderna and Pfizer–BioNTech vaccines that are already in use.

1. How does the Johnson & Johnson vaccine work?

The Johnson & Johnson vaccine is what’s called a viral vector vaccine.

To create this vaccine, the Johnson & Johnson team took a harmless adenovirus – the viral vector – and replaced a small piece of its genetic instructions with coronavirus genes for the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.

After this modified adenovirus is injected into someone’s arm, it enters the person’s cells. The cells then read the genetic instructions needed to make the spike protein and the vaccinated cells make and present the spike protein on their own surface. The person’s immune system then notices these foreign proteins and makes antibodies against them that will protect the person if they are ever exposed to SARS-CoV-2 in the future.

The adenovirus vector vaccine is safe because the adenovirus can’t replicate in human cells or cause disease, and the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein can’t cause COVID–19 without the rest of the coronavirus.

This approach is not new. Johnson & Johnson used a similar method to make its Ebola vaccine, and the AstraZeneca-Oxford COVID-19 vaccine is also an adenovirus viral vector vaccine.

2. How effective is it?

The FDA’s analysis found that, in the U.S., the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine was 72% effective at preventing all COVID-19 and 86% effective at preventing severe cases of the disease. While there is still a chance a vaccinated person could get sick, this suggests they would be much less likely to need hospitalization or to die from COVID-19.

A similar trial in South Africa, where a new, more contagious variant is dominant, produced similar results. Researchers found the Johnson & Johnson vaccine to be slightly less effective at preventing all illness there – 64% overall – but was still 82% effective at preventing severe disease. The FDA report also indicates that the vaccine protects against other variants from Britain and Brazil too.

3. How is it different from other vaccines?

The most basic difference is that the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is an adenovirus vector vaccine, while the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are both mRNA vaccines. Messenger RNA vaccines use genetic instructions from the coronavirus to tell a person’s cells to make the spike protein, but these don’t use another virus as a vector. There are many practical differences, too.

Both of the mRNA-based vaccines require two shots. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine requires only a single dose. This is key when vaccines are in short supply.

The Johnson & Johnson vaccine can also be stored at much warmer temperatures than the mRNA vaccines. The mRNA vaccines must be shipped and stored at below–freezing or subzero temperatures and require a complicated cold chain to safely distribute them. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine can be stored for at least three months in a regular refrigerator, making it much easier to use and distribute.

As for efficacy, it is difficult to directly compare the Johnson & Johnson vaccine with the mRNA vaccines due to differences in how the clinical trials were designed. While the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are reported to be approximately 95% effective at preventing illness from COVID–19, the trials were done over the summer and fall of 2020, before newer more contagious variants were circulating widely. The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines might not be as effective against the new variants, and Johnson & Johnson trials were done more recently and take into account the vaccine’s efficacy against these new variants.

4. Should I choose one vaccine over another?

Although the overall efficacy of the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines is higher than the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, you should not wait until you have your choice of vaccine – which is likely a long way off anyway. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine is nearly as good as the mRNA-based vaccines at preventing serious disease, and that’s what really matters.

The Johnson & Johnson vaccine and other viral-vector vaccines like the one from AstraZeneca are particularly important for the global vaccination effort. From a public health perspective, it’s important to have multiple COVID-19 vaccines, and the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is a very welcome addition to the vaccine arsenal. It doesn’t require a freezer, making it much easier to ship and store. It’s a one-shot vaccine, making logistics much easier compared with organizing two doses per person.

As many people as possible need to be vaccinated as quickly as possible to limit the development of new coronavirus variants. Johnson & Johnson is expected to ship out nearly four million doses as soon as the FDA grants emergency use authorization. Having a third authorized vaccine in the U.S. will be a big step towards meeting vaccination demand and stopping this pandemic.

Maureen Ferran, Associate Professor of Biology, Rochester Institute of Technology

This article is republished from The Conversation under a Creative Commons license. Read the original article.

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Russ R.
February 27, 2021 10:20 pm

I don’t want to wait in lines. I don’t want to make reservations. I don’t want to make a second trip to get a second dose. Bring it to my work, at the very least make it available at the pharmacy. I will take it if it is convenient.
My fear level of WuFlu is very low, and I will let those more afraid than me go first.

jamesscott844love
Reply to  Russ R.
February 27, 2021 10:45 pm

Why?

Russ R.
Reply to  jamesscott844love
February 28, 2021 9:39 am

My personal risk is lower for WuFlu than the seasonal flu. I don’t have much risk to spreading it to those at high risk.
But it would be valuable to me to get the vaccine due to the hassles of the current police state, violating my inalienable Rights.
I am still working full time, and have more to do than normal due to covering for colleagues hiding in their basements. I don’t want to waste my personal time, trying to get a vaccine that is not a high priority for me personally, but will do my part to reduce available carriers, and build herd immunity.

Rickk
Reply to  jamesscott844love
February 28, 2021 11:52 am

For me, 51yrs, zero comorbidities, I have a 99.95% chance of getting over covid if I get covid…a jab moves me to 99.97% of recovery….woop d doo

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Rickk
February 28, 2021 1:11 pm

The claim now is that 30 percent (or higher) of those infected with the Wuhan virus will experience adverse health effects after they get over the disease, and that applies to both severe cases and mild cases of the disease.

Rather than allowing the Wuhan virus to run its course in your body because you think you will not be affected seriously, the prudent thing to do is to treat yourself with Ivermectin or some similar therapeutic as soon as the infection is detected and this should give you a much better chance of avoiding long-term adverse health effects from the Wuhan virus.

You don’t need to hide from the virus, you just need to treat it as soon as possible after a positive test.

I’ve already had the vaccine but I will treat myself with ivermectin if I even get a slight case of the Wuhan virus in the future. It’s just extra insurance against a disease that can put blood clots all over your body in places they don’t belong, if given the chance.

Colin
Reply to  Tom Abbott
February 28, 2021 9:03 pm

“THE CLAIM” by who? W,H.O.?

Rolf
Reply to  Colin
March 1, 2021 4:54 pm

No, Many reports at servers with medical research. From Germany they even report up to 78% of all infected, including a symptomatic cases, suffer some heart damage. Myocarditis. (Inflammation of the center muscle). Problem is even if few serious right now in most cases, long term effect unknown. There is also reports of kidney failure (severe) and a lot of diabetes cases. Just make your choice !

Gant
Reply to  Rickk
February 28, 2021 5:45 pm

While you may not die of the disease many people are experiencing long term effects that I certainly don’t want. I’ll get it as soon as I can.

Colin
Reply to  Gant
February 28, 2021 9:03 pm

Seriously? CNN “News”?

guidoLaMoto
Reply to  Gant
March 1, 2021 6:16 am

Long term effects- defined as cough &/or myalgias and fatigue persisting for up to 12 weeks…Sounds kinda like Herophilus infections. BFD. Significant long term morbidity is quite rare.

Colin
Reply to  jamesscott844love
February 28, 2021 9:02 pm

So if and when I go in to get the vaccine (and its going to quite a while until I do) do I get a choice of vaccines? Why get it? If my survivability rate is over 99% why should I get a vaccine?

Ian W
Reply to  Colin
March 1, 2021 11:25 am

Vitamin D3, Zinc, Zinc ionophore (quercetin, EGCG) are good prophylactics and give an almost complete protection from getting the WuFlu – or for that matter any other RNA virus that has to hijack the ribosomes to replicate. The intracellular zinc blocks the hijacking RNA virus from using the ribosomes.

Last edited 4 months ago by Ian W
Tired Old Nurse
Reply to  Russ R.
February 28, 2021 5:29 am

Ditto. I have more fear of unproven mRNA vaccine tech than I am the virus itself.

Simon
Reply to  Tired Old Nurse
February 28, 2021 9:49 am

Ditto. I have more fear of unproven mRNA vaccine tech than I am the virus itself.”
Do some reading then and be informed.

DonM
Reply to  Simon
February 28, 2021 10:13 am

“First, do no harm.”

… nice platitude, but nothing really to adhere to, there is always a work-around … what do you think Simon?

Simon, you are still, as always, a hypocrite. Do some reading and tell me about all the effort, time & study that went into letting the public know about avoidance of symptoms (the actual disease) that are caused by being a temporary host to the virus. The things that you and other idiots (see Frank Galagher below) have railed against are just as effective as the 70% effective vaccine.

“Having a healthy immune system that can deal with the variants easily is a must ….”

Simon
Reply to  DonM
February 28, 2021 1:10 pm

Do some reading and tell me about all the effort, time & study that went into letting the public know about avoidance of symptoms (the actual disease) that are caused by being a temporary host to the virus. “

No time, the messiah Trump ordered warp speed and it seems he did something right here. Already millions across the planet are testimony to the safety. You anti-vax morons are a curse. People are going to die because you peddle your fake fear. Disgusting…..

Misty Optic
Reply to  Simon
February 28, 2021 4:18 pm

WE peddle fake fear? That’s a good one. What have the world’s media and the soon-to-be-very-rich vaccine manufacturers and the Great Resetters been peddling for over a year now, but fear. The sheeple are dutifully taking part in the greatest experimental human trials in history. Like them you clearly have no idea what this mRNA gene therapy could do to us. Tell me again who needs to research and who is the moron.

Simon
Reply to  Misty Optic
February 28, 2021 8:17 pm

Tell me again who needs to research and who is the moron.”
You…. tell me again how many of the many millions who have had the vaccination have shown serious side effects? Look, I have no problem with you allowing your ignorance to lead to your illness (Darwin was right) but when you spread fear and BS that the gullible swallow, then I draw the line. I say keep your witchcraft to yourself.

John burns
Reply to  Simon
March 2, 2021 1:10 pm

Once again Simon mind your own business and let inteligent people make a choice. With your attitude it woud be reasonable to assume you think Biden won the election

David A
Reply to  Simon
February 28, 2021 6:29 pm

He was right about HCQ, and vitamin D and Sunshine. He was right about China, Middle East foreign policy, the Parris Accord, relations with India, energy independence, illegal immigration, domestic economics, energy Independence, etc…
President Trump was very tight about many things. As to the vaccine, time will tell.

Simon
Reply to  David A
February 28, 2021 8:19 pm

President Trump was very tight about many things.”
Not sure what you mean by this….
As for HCQ and sunlight… well I’ll give you sunlight, but HCQ was shown in many studies to be virtually useless.

David A
Reply to  Simon
March 1, 2021 2:03 am

Early PC based studies that either forgot zinc, gave it to late to severe cases, and gave a very wrong doseage. ( Almost like planned failure.)
Here are the two web sites which now have over 100 studies which show the efficacy of HCQ:
https://c19study.co
https://hcqmeta.com/
Intracellular Zinc interferes with coronavirus transcription, which results in the ability of the virus to replicate.
However, being a ++ ion, extracellular zinc requires active transport to pass across the cell membrane. It so happens that chloroquine is a zinc ionophore, thus provides zinc++ with the transport mechanism.
Chloroquine Is a Zinc Ionophore
In this instance, chloroquine has no drug action. It is the zinc that is in play, and I find it concerning that so many news organizations (and governments) are failing to convey this fact..opting, instead, to portray chloroquine as having the key drug action. it does not HCQ, Zinc, Ivermectin.

This was all KNOWN before Cov19, and the suppression of effective treatments that made a vaccine unnecessary, and lead to the death of hundreds of thousands is, IMV, criminal democide.

India with 12 times the population density of the US, and zero social distancing among millions, and about 30 million citizens then the US over the age of 65, has a death rate that is about 7 percent of the U.S. and 99 percent of all positive cases are complete.

Last edited 4 months ago by David A
Simon
Reply to  David A
March 1, 2021 11:01 am

OK so here we go…. If it was “soooo” good why was Trump (the chief promoter of HCQ early on) not given it when he first showed symptoms? Here’s a clue…. it doesn’t work and the best doctors around him weren’t going to be accused of giving him a drug known not to be effective. If there was even a small chance he would have benefitted, it would have been down his throat and up his arse before you could tweet “covfefe.”

Simon
Reply to  Eisenhower
March 1, 2021 4:51 pm

What!!!! Keep up. He took HCQ back in May 2020. That clip was way early on when there was some semblance of a chance it worked. By the time Trump got sick it was was off the radar of doctors who were informed.

John burns
Reply to  Simon
March 2, 2021 1:15 pm

Keep digging Simon
Orange Man Bad
God help protect us from unhinged lefties

David A
Reply to  Simon
March 1, 2021 10:15 pm

Wow, ignore 100 studies, ignore other nations that should have done far worse than the US, yet did far better, and ignore the known and obvious flaws in the negative studies.

Such disregard of facts could be cause to you being considered a troll.

John burns
Reply to  Simon
March 2, 2021 1:14 pm

What ! how would you know what Trump got jesus the hysteria from the left knows no bounds
Keep digging Simon you look more foolish amd unhinged by the day

Reply to  Simon
March 1, 2021 8:19 am

What ever was the reason, the studies about failing HCQ where promoted, well knowing the way HCQ was used, was to give it to late, ergo not following the prescribed protocol.
My, and I believe other peoples too, impression was, to discredit HCQ at all fronts.TDS ?
Eyeopener was, that Trump spoke not only about HCQ but in the same sentence about Remdesivir, that was not blamed at all.
Guess witch of the two drugs where moneymaker ? 😀
At least 2 commenters here followed that misuse 100%

Simon
Reply to  Krishna Gans
March 1, 2021 11:02 am

BS conspiracy theory.

John burns
Reply to  Simon
March 2, 2021 1:17 pm

Spread by Simon spokesperson for Soros i ass or mad umed your getting paid otherwise your just dellusional or mad

John burns
Reply to  Simon
March 2, 2021 1:11 pm

What a absolute load of rubbish. Whos paying you to spread thses lies or are you just an illiterate sheeple

Colin
Reply to  Simon
February 28, 2021 9:06 pm

Peddling fear Simon? Over 99% survivability. I am 70 and I took the flu, shingles, and pneumonia. This “vaccine”? Nope. Not a chance. Its been rushed. And which one do I get IF i chose to get it?

Simon
Reply to  Colin
February 28, 2021 10:05 pm

Your choice. No one is going to make you. But I wouldn’t be allowing you to travel, go to restaurants, or be in crowds…. if I was in charge.

Michael D
Reply to  Simon
March 2, 2021 12:48 pm

You would blackmail into compliance to YOUR desires or reduce what little freedom I still have based upon what exactly?
For every study you site I can find a study that refutes yours. The very first question one ought ask when reading any study is how was it funded?

John burns
Reply to  Simon
March 2, 2021 1:18 pm

But simon if your ” vaccinated ” your protected from the evil deniers
Correct ?

John Enditcott
Reply to  Simon
March 4, 2021 3:28 pm

People are going to die because you peddle your fake fear. Disgusting…..

And the award for most self unaware comment goes to Simple Simon.

But I wouldn’t be allowing you to travel, go to restaurants, or be in crowds…. if I was in charge.

Like all leftist, you show your true tyrannical colors. Good thing no one is stupid enough to put you in charge of anything.

John burns
Reply to  Simon
March 2, 2021 1:07 pm

Its about choice if you think you need it get it but stop the slander against those who dont in other words mind your own business !

john Christopher Burns
Reply to  Simon
March 2, 2021 2:09 pm

Simon you are living proof that inbreeding amongst lefties is bad for humanity and will without restraint result in a population dominated by illiterate gullible sheeple who believe that CNN is a news channel and the ABC tell the truth
Fortunately soy-boy lefties have very low testosterone so woman find them very unattractive and hence a combination of this and the inability produce healthy robust sperm will in time make you and your kind disappear
And this will be a great help in preserving humanity
Perhaps Darwin was a prophet after all

john Christopher Burns
Reply to  Simon
March 2, 2021 1:55 pm

Please get the vaccine so we can all watch the experiment unfold
Simon the “human guinea pig” and useful idiot
So grab a beer and a comfortable chair let the games begin

JCalvertN(UK)
Reply to  Russ R.
March 2, 2021 3:54 am

Exactly my attitude towards it. I was offered the AZ vaccine a few days ago and told them, “Give it to someone who needs it more than I do”.
Then I remembered that I will need to travel overseas pretty soon – and will probably need to show that I have been vaccinated.
I’ve just received another offer of the AZ vaccine – and will (reluctantly) take them up on it.

JEHILL
February 27, 2021 10:45 pm

Thanks for reposting this article. I am still a firm no on any of these vaccines. But if I were to take one I now know that it would be J&J. I also recently caught the Wuhan Flu and have since recovered. I am not sure what I had but was very different any other sick I have experienced. I am not very trusting of these PCR testing assays. Nor of any of the information from most sources. I am also not one to get sick in general. But I was definitely sick. This was 3rd time in my 50 years of having any type of respiratory illnesses. I traveled extensively throughout the USA and the North American continent in general. My travels have officially taken me from Hawaii to London and most points in between west to east. So my immune system has had practice.

Abolition Man
Reply to  JEHILL
February 27, 2021 11:12 pm

As long as you’re eating healthy, REAL food and not a lot of the processed garbage that most Americans are programmed to consume you should be fine! Of course, zinc and Vit D3 are good additions to any diet for fighting viral infections, and regular exercise and sunlight are part of any rational health program!
This J&J vaccine does sound preferable to the others so far, but I will take one only once they have proven safe and someone can explain why the ivermectin and HCQ treatments are not just as effective! We are rapidly approaching community immunity here in the US;and this virus is now ENdemic, not PANdemic! Having a healthy immune system that can deal with the variants easily is a must; the lockdowns and mask mandates that have impeded this goal need to be abandoned with all the other lies that came out of the ChiCom organ: the WHO!

David Guy-Johnson
Reply to  Abolition Man
February 28, 2021 12:24 am

Selfish attitude and you’re clearly an anti science prat

newt2u
Reply to  David Guy-Johnson
February 28, 2021 1:14 am

I really do not understand your selfish comment. As to the science, zinc and vitamin D are both beneficial to the immune system, in fact it has been shown that fit D deficiency is a good indicator of poor outcomes from this virus. I will also not be participating in this global experiment on RNA vaccinations.
As too the prat part, perhaps you were looking in the mirror.

whiten
Reply to  newt2u
February 28, 2021 2:40 am

new

You in the same team with the prat Abolishen Mann??
How much you guys get payed?

Reply to  whiten
February 28, 2021 3:49 am

Vitamin D and COVID-19: evidence and recommendations for supplementation
Vitamin D is a hormone that acts on many genes expressed by immune cells. Evidence linking vitamin D deficiency with COVID-19 severity is circumstantial but considerable—links with ethnicity, obesity, institutionalization; latitude and ultraviolet exposure; increased lung damage in experimental models; associations with COVID-19 severity in hospitalized patients. Vitamin D deficiency is common but readily preventable by supplementation that is very safe and cheap. A target blood level of at least 50 nmol l−1, as indicated by the US National Academy of Medicine and by the European Food Safety Authority, is supported by evidence. This would require supplementation with 800 IU/day (not 400 IU/day as currently recommended in UK) to bring most people up to target. Randomized placebo-controlled trials of vitamin D in the community are unlikely to complete until spring 2021—although we note the positive results from Spain of a randomized trial of 25-hydroxyvitamin D3 (25(OH)D3 or calcifediol) in hospitalized patients. We urge UK and other governments to recommend vitamin D supplementation at 800–1000 IU/day for all, making it clear that this is to help optimize immune health and not solely for bone and muscle health. This should be mandated for prescription in care homes, prisons and other institutions where people are likely to have been indoors for much of the summer. Adults likely to be deficient should consider taking a higher dose, e.g. 4000 IU/day for the first four weeks before reducing to 800 IU–1000 IU/day. People admitted to the hospital with COVID-19 should have their vitamin D status checked and/or supplemented and consideration should be given to testing high-dose calcifediol in the RECOVERY trial. We feel this should be pursued with great urgency. Vitamin D levels in the UK will be falling from October onwards as we head into winter. There seems nothing to lose and potentially much to gain.

tom0mason
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 28, 2021 9:23 am

Also people may wish to note —
From https://www.researchgate.net/publication/344210822_
Lysine_Therapy_for_SARS-CoV-2

One of the most important observations in relation to lysine was the incredibly short time to eliminate/reduce fever presumably due to extinguishing the associated cytokine storm. Cytokine storm appears to be extinguished in hours, based on the 5 inpatients who appeared to be in severe crisis when lysine was administered who showed very rapid reduction in symptoms and stabilization. CRP levels returned to normal, yet D-dimer levels were high in some subjects.
Only a small percentage of subjects on lysine were febrile past 24 hours, and most were relieved in less than 12 hours with proper doses and dietary restrictions. IL-10 inhibits the synthesis of IL-6, TNF and IL-1 beta which are implicated in fever. (8) IL-10 serves as an endogenous antipyretic. (8) Lysine deficiency raises IL-6 inflammatory cytokine levels, so lysine potentially has an IL-6 inhibitory effect, and lysine also increases IL-10 anti-inflammatory cytokines as shown in the liver. (7) Therefore, it is logical to assume that supplementation with lysine could restore or augment IL-10 levels resulting in downregulating proinflammatory cytokines,in turn eliminating fevers and cytokine storms. IL-6 inhibitors for patients with severe Covid-19 are associated with decreased intubation, reduced mortality, and increased discharge.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Note that other studies have shown vitamin C with Lysine has a small but measurable effect in helping to maintain and repair heart muscle function. Vitamins C, D, and lysine also serve an active role in maintain good endothelium and subendothelial layers (very thin blood vessel linings).

DonM
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 28, 2021 10:14 am

Krishna,

thanks for putting in the time.

Reply to  DonM
February 28, 2021 10:41 am

?? Ask for explanation

DonM
Reply to  Krishna Gans
March 1, 2021 8:19 am

Krishna,

It was a sincere Thank You.

I appreciate the time and efforts you put into your comment(s).

I should have phrased things better the first time.

Last edited 4 months ago by DonM
Reply to  DonM
March 1, 2021 9:27 am

Sorry, I misinterpreted you comment in that way you missed a time… 😀 😀 😀
That’s because English isn’t my first or second language I learned at school 😀

But thanks, you are wellcome 😀

William Astley
Reply to  Krishna Gans
March 1, 2021 4:57 pm

Daily supplements of 800 to 1000 UI is not sufficient.

4000 UI/day to 8000 UI/day depending on body mass is required to increase the US population who have an average Blood stream level of activated Vit B of 26 ng/ml (75 nmol/l) to 60 ng/ml (150 nmol/l).

Vitamin D not a proto hormone. It is different, The cells require Vitamin D to get the blueprints to build cell apparatus. The new cell apparatus is controlled by the cell, not by vitamin D levels.

In the last 10 years it has been discovered that most common cancers, type 1 and type 2 diabetes, and so on can be prevented by increasing Vitamin D levels.

This is a link to two of the best Vit D summaries on the internet.

The first is by Bruce Hollis. Hollis is on a review board that approves all Vit. D research in the US.

The lecture includes an overview of all US Vit. D research in addition to the finding of the 4000 UI/day Prostate cancer study.

Which found out that the increase in Vitamin D (4000 UI/day) reduced the size of the cancerous cells and triggered the a gene that is known to stop inflamation.

More than a dozen women’s studies have found a direct, linear correlation Vitamin D levels and the incidence of breast cancer. Those who had a Vit D blood serum level that is 150 nmol/l or greater had a 68% less incidence than those who had a serum blood level of 50 nmol/l or less.




Results of a Prostate Cancer/Vitamin D Trial: Effectiveness Safety Recommendations by Bruce H Hollis

The second is one of the best medical lectures I have ever scene.

Vit. D changes our body at a cellular level. Those in the Vit. D breast cancer trials lost 20 to 40 lbs without dieting and there was a significant reduction in depression, improved balance, and so on.

This lecture explains why that is so.

Heaney, MD, Creighton University explores why vitamin D is important, how it works, how we get it and how much we need. Recorded on 12/09/2014

Vitamin D Sunshine Optimal Health: Putting it all Together


To stop cancer, Vitamin D is required by the cell (breast and prostate cells for example) to turn on a gene that stops inflammation at the organ/tumor level.

1000 genes have been identified that require Vitamin D to access.

Everyone of our cells has a copy of our own genome in it. Vitamin D enables the cell to the genome to get the blueprints to build biochemical producing modules that sit on the cell and to take cell actions.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960076015300091?via%3Dihub#bib0105

Incidence rate of type 2 diabetes is >50% lower in Grassroots Health cohort with median serum 25–hydroxyvitamin D of 41 ng/ml than in NHANES cohort with median of 22 ng/ml.

This is a link to a women’s movement that found this out and started their own research center.
 
https://www.grassrootshealth.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/disease-incidence-prev-chart-051317.pdf
 
 
 
https://www.grassrootshealth.net/document/cancer-risk/
 

https://www.grassrootshealth.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/McDonnell-2018-breast-cancer-GRH.pdf

The proportion with breast cancer was 78% lower for >60 ng/ml vs <20 ng/ml (P = 0.02). Third, multivariate Cox regression revealed that women with 25(OH)D concentrations 60 ng/ml had an 80% lower risk of breast cancer than women with concentrations <20 ng/ml (HR = 0.20, P = 0.03), adjusting for age, BMI, smoking status, calcium supplement intake, and study of origin.

Patterns of COVID-19 Mortality and Vitamin D: An Indonesian Study https://emerginnova.com/patterns-of-covid19-mortality-and-vitamin-d-an-indonesian-study/
  https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3585561

Vitamin D Insufficient Patients 12.55 times more likely to die

Vitamin D Deficient Patients 19.12 times more likely to die

Black people are more than two times more likely to die from Covid than white people in the US and in the UK. The death rate for covid correlates with how dark the person’s skin is. Latino’s in the US have a 60% higher chance of dying than white people.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52574931

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52492662

Reply to  whiten
February 28, 2021 3:53 am

Analysis of vitamin D level among asymptomatic and critically ill COVID-19 patients and its correlation with inflammatory markers
COVID-19 is characterized by marked variability in clinical severity. Vitamin D had recently been reviewed as one of the factors that may affect the severity in COVID-19. The objective of current study is to analyze the vitamin D level in COVID-19 patients and its impact on the disease severity. After approval from Ethics Committee, M.L.B Medical College the current study was undertaken as continuous prospective observational study of 6 weeks. Participants were COVID-19 patients of age group 30–60 years admitted during the study period of 6 weeks. Study included either asymptomatic COVID-19 patients (Group A) or severely ill patients requiring ICU admission (Group B). Serum concentration of 25 (OH)D, were measured along with serum IL-6; TNFα and serum ferritin. Standard statistical analysis was performed to analyze the differences. Current Study enrolled 154 patients, 91 in Group A and 63 patients in Group B. The mean level of vitamin D (in ng/mL) was 27.89 ± 6.21 in Group A and 14.35 ± 5.79 in Group B, the difference was highly significant. The prevalence of vitamin D deficiency was 32.96% and 96.82% respectively in Group A and Group B. Out of total 154 patients, 90 patients were found to be deficient in vitamin D (Group A: 29; Group B: 61). Serum level of inflammatory markers was found to be higher in vitamin D deficient COVID-19 patients viz. IL-6 level (in pg/mL) 19.34 ± 6.17 vs 12.18 ± 4.29; Serum ferritin 319.17 ± 38.21 ng/mL vs 186.83 ± 20.18 ng/mL; TNFα level (in pg/mL) 13.26 ± 5.64 vs 11.87 ± 3.15. The fatality rate was high in vitamin D deficient (21% vs 3.1%). Vitamin D level is markedly low in severe COVID-19 patients. Inflammatory response is high in vitamin D deficient COVID-19 patients. This all translates into increased mortality in vitamin D deficient COVID-19 patients. As per the flexible approach in the current COVID-19 pandemic authors recommend mass administration of vitamin D supplements to population at risk for COVID-19.

The real question is, who is a prat ? 😀

Last edited 4 months ago by Krishna Gans
Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 28, 2021 4:44 am

Vitamin D is markedly lower in severe patients, on average.
But people are not averages, they are individuals, and although it is true that one has a substantially lower risk of developing severe disease if one does not have a vitamin D deficiency, that does not mean that what Abolition man said is true…that if you take vitamin D you have noting to worry about…”you should be fine.”
This is exactly the sort of misinterpretation of results people here should know enough not to make.
His point seemed to be that if you take vitamin D or get plenty of Sun, you will not have anything to worry about.
This is clearly false, by what you have posted here.
But we also have to realize that although this one study may be indicative of everyone everywhere, it is only one study and by itself proves nothing. In science, only results that are repeatable and reproducible are considered to be verified as to a given hypothesis. And even if that result is repeatable and reproducible, it only applies to that population. It may be a general rule, but in science we do not assume that sort of thing…because we may be wrong.

Note too that recent large studies have found no correlation between zinc supplementation and severity of disease. Ditto vitamin C.
I have said all along that everyone should get plenty of every vitamin and mineral and necessary nutrient, all the time, in general.
But there is no history of any nutrient ever tested that shows an unambiguous result across all studies on the incidence or severity of any disease, except for some evidence that involves long term megadoses of vitamin C, long distance athletes, and the common cold. That result was not seen in ordinary athletes or in nonathletes, or with any other tested nutrient.
I am a big advocate of vitamin and mineral supplementation, but it is unsubstantiated and biased and hence purely unscientific to make claims that have no actual weight of evidence behind them.

And it is certainly not true in any context that taking some vitamin D is a substitute for getting vaccinated, or that any vitamin makes one immune, or will prevent dying.
Besides, even a person with a mild case can and will spread it and hence be complicit in perpetuating the virus and the illness it causes.

“You should be fine” is as wrong as it gets, and as bad as advice can be.

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 5:01 am

Example:
Vitamin D status differs by latitude and race, with residents of the northeastern United States and individuals with more skin pigmentation being at increased risk of deficiency. A PubMed database search yielded 63 observational studies of vitamin D status in relation to cancer risk, including 30 of colon, 13 of breast, 26 of prostate, and 7 of ovarian cancer, and several that assessed the association of vitamin D receptor genotype with cancer risk.
The majority of studies found a protective relationship between sufficient vitamin D status and lower risk of cancer. The evidence suggests that efforts to improve vitamin D status, for example by vitamin D supplementation, could reduce cancer incidence and mortality at low cost, with few or no adverse effects.

The Role of Vitamin D in Cancer Prevention

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 28, 2021 7:21 am

Suggests.
Could.
This has nothing to do with the topic at hand however.
Everyone should know that vitamins are essential nutrients.
Not having enough of any of them means our body cannot function optimally.
And people who have vitamin deficiencies are likely unhealthy for several reason, and likely take poor care of themselves.
None of that changes anything I have ever said.
In fact I have maintained all along that everyone should make sure to have adequate intake of every essential nutrient.
I have also pointed out very early on that vitamin D deficiency is common. And easily prevented.
I do not know what a prat is, and you are free to speak to people as you please.
To me it was uncalled for, because the person you were insulting is correct to point out what he did.

Fran
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 28, 2021 8:53 am

Vitamin D supplementation actually reversed precancerous changes in prostate patients.

https://ucsd.tv/shows/Results-of-a-Prostate-Cancer-Vitamin-D-Trial-Effectiveness-Safety-Recommendations-29079

kwinterkorn
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 8:15 am

Agreed, mostly. Real science is hard, requires discipline in study design, and never-ending skepticism. That’s why the “climatologists” avoid the hard parts of science, like getting data from the real world, instead sitting comfortably in their office chairs and getting their “data” from the pseudoreality of computer models.

Clearly Vitamin D is important in many ways, from bones to immunity. But science has failed to show, yet, that Vitamin D supplementation prevents disease.

“Natural” Vitamin D requires sun exposure. A number of other biochemicals in our body also are changed by sun exposure. It may be that Vitamin D is only a necessary, but not sufficient, cofactor for a suite of immune-related biochemicals requiring sun exposure. If true, Vitamin D supplementation might then be inadequate as a replacement for the sun.

All that being said, I take Vitamin D along with other nutrients every day. I also try to get some sun everyday. And, I have had vaccination (Moderna) times 2.

I’m a practicing physician. I have seen what COVID-19 can do. 500,000+ Americans have died, many not so old or with distinct risk factors. The risks of the various vaccines are tiny compared with the risks of covid disease. And there is a responsibility to help stop its spread, which vaccination does better than any alternative.

goracle
Reply to  kwinterkorn
February 28, 2021 9:34 am

500K dead is BS. That number is the result of spreading fear throughout society of how deadly covid is, CDC guidance on classifying deaths from covid-like symptoms, some cities/states indicating a death as a covid death (regardless of how they died) if they tested positive for covid in last 30 days….

if your not over 70 with a handful of comorbidities, then your risk is extremely low of being admitted to ICU, never mind actually dieing from covid. Does that mean there is no risk? No. But the insanity that has ensued since last march is historical.

BTW, whatever happened to the seasonal flum

mcswell
Reply to  goracle
February 28, 2021 10:24 am

500K dead is BS”: To paraphrase Panama Hat (in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade), so are you.

goracle
Reply to  mcswell
March 2, 2021 7:33 pm

Mcswell, don’t be a dumb idiot… sure 500K died… just not 500K died from covid… do u get it now?

Dan Tige
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 9:05 am

You might ask why “people of color” seem to have higher rates of serious COVID-19.

There are a variety of reasons someone may be deficient in vitamin D, and for Black people and people with darker complexions, one main reason is the amount of melanin pigment in their skin, Dr. Almaroof explained. “Sunlight itself induces production of melanin and melanin also reduces production of vitamin D3 in the skin,” she said. For people with darker skin tones, the chemical reaction that converts vitamin D into a form the body can use is reduced compared to those with less melanin such as white people.

Vitamin D Deficiencies Are Common in People With Darker Skin Tones – Here’s WhyTamara Pridgett  10/29/2020
Microsoft News

Mike Graebner
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 8:49 pm

<<>>> Does that include all of the research done on vitamins and minerals that I have seen on PubMed?

jim hogg
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 1, 2021 9:07 am

Excellent comment, even though there’s nothing revolutionary or particularly insightful about it. Just somebody making a sensible general statement, free of ideological dogma or distortion, or echo chamber mentality, that takes into account the wide variety of evidence and reasonable speculation that’s out there. And rewarded, as is to be expected with a bunch of down votes. A refreshing read. I wish there were many more like it, or in their absence, well argued comments from contrary positions, which I might benefit from. Alas, they are in very short supply. Upvote from me. And downvotes FOR me.

whiten
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 28, 2021 4:44 am

Krishna Gans

Thank you Krishna.

Let me point out what my comment was addressing:
——–
From Abolition Man;

“This J&J vaccine does sound preferable to the others so far, but I will take one only once they have proven safe and someone can explain why the ivermectin and HCQ treatments are not just as effective!”

and then from newt2u;

“I will also not be participating in this global experiment on RNA vaccinations.”
——-

See maybe I was wrong,
but that does not seem like science, but more like advertising propaganda to me… quite sinister.

But hey that is me, and I may even consider an apollogy if this guys take the time to clarify their point made.

cheers

Abolition Man
Reply to  whiten
February 28, 2021 5:31 am

My post was a reply JEHill who believed that he had already contracted the virus earlier and was traveling extensively. I make no claims about Vit D and sunshine preventing the ChiCom virus although there is a strong correlation between low levels of Vit D and more serious complications!
There are about two dozen papers out now showing HCQ is effective if used early and in conjunction with zinc and an antibiotic! This proves that hundreds of thousands of lives were needlessly lost by politicizing the epidemic! Why it is selfish to be concerned about politicians murdering thousands of their populace is somehow beyond my understanding! There are also a number of papers showing ivermectin is even more effective than HCQ!
I have grave concerns about the vaccines because of the way they were rushed to market and the ineptness of the rest of the response does a lot to deepen my concern! There is growing evidence that Lil’ Tony Fauxi was integrally involved in supporting and financing the gain of function experiments being run in the Wuhan Lab, and I have a great distrust for anything that this liar, who can’t keep his stories straight, is involved with; like the vaccines!
Incidentally, you should know that there are thirty scientific papers showing that lockdowns are either ineffective or more harmful than the virus, and there NEVER has been a study showing that widespread use of masks is effective! The lockdowns and mask mandates were pushed relentlessly by the CCP through their surrogates in the media and academia, and the ruling elite in the US and Europe were happy for the opportunity it provided to assume more power!
Just who do you imagine would be paying me? There’s no money to made from HCQ and vitamins, that’s why the pharmaceutical companies wanted it suppressed; and the ChiComs are already paying off Fauxi and the DemoKKKrats to do their bidding!

Simon
Reply to  Abolition Man
February 28, 2021 9:54 am

There’s no money to made from HCQ and vitamins, that’s why the pharmaceutical companies wanted it suppressed; and the ChiComs are already paying off Fauxi and the DemoKKKrats to do their bidding!”
Proof please, or this is just more BS from people who sit round making up conspiracies.

Abolition Man
Reply to  Simon
February 28, 2021 10:07 am

If you can’t find the evidence you’re not looking very hard!
Is there evidence of the virus coming out of the Wuhan lab?
Did Fauxi pay for gain of function experiments in the US and then move them to China when the Obama administration placed a moratorium on such dangerous work?
Does the sainted Dr. Fauxi have strong connections to and investments in the pharmaceutical industry?
If you haven’t heard those questions before then you are probably listening to corporate media sources and not looking under every rock for the nuggets of truth you need to be informed!

Simon
Reply to  Abolition Man
February 28, 2021 1:12 pm

Is there evidence of the virus coming out of the Wuhan lab? No

Did Fauxi pay for gain of function experiments in the US and then move them to China when the Obama administration placed a moratorium on such dangerous work? Nope
Does the sainted Dr. Fauxi have strong connections to and investments in the pharmaceutical industry? Nope again.
So much BS.

whiten
Reply to  Abolition Man
February 28, 2021 11:36 am

Abolition Man.

Let’s make it simple.

Whatever rationale or logic there in consideration of the given issue,
I must accept and recognize,
that in consideration of interaction there,
I happened to be wrong towards you, at the very least,
due most probably to my conclusion rush.

Regardless of all else there please accept my apology.

Really sorry.

thank you.

cheers

Abolition Man
Reply to  whiten
February 28, 2021 1:17 pm

I have great respect for anyone mature enough to apologize, but your transgression was much more molehill than mountain!
I may have not been as clear as I ought; in a better world we could now hoist a pint and get on to solving the rest of the world’s ills!
Cheers!

Reply to  whiten
February 28, 2021 5:40 am

We had these discussions much earlier about HCQ+ZN and Ivermectin. In so far, to mention that was only a retrospect.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 28, 2021 4:47 am

Just to be clear, the result you posted does not imply or state that people with plenty of Vitamin D will not get a severe case and will not die.
It said the mortality is increased in some deficient patients.

Everyone wants this to be over.
Anyone not helping to make that happen is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Farmer Ch E retired
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 5:21 am

I read awhile back that D3 produced by natural sunlight is more effective than a supplement. Can’t recall the exact reasons given but may have been related to other organ functions affected by sunlight. UV rays damage the skin which triggers a response that’s more complicated than just D3. Any experts correct or add to this.

I was deficient in D3 and with a supplement, am now in the normal range. I do plan to get a few more rays now that the snow and ice are gone from the southeast US.

Last edited 4 months ago by Farmer Ch E retired
Reply to  Farmer Ch E retired
February 28, 2021 5:49 am

What Vitamine ever, the natural source is always better than artificial, Vitamine C out of fruits f.e. Vitamine D out of fishes or direct sunlamps.

Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 28, 2021 7:18 am

Vitamine ever, the natural source is always better than artificial,

Ah.Proof by assertion, so that’s it, then…

David A
Reply to  Leo Smith
February 28, 2021 8:54 pm

There are many studies that show this to be true.

Gerald Machnee
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 28, 2021 7:19 am

Seniors in care homes do not get enough Vitamin D so supplements are required.

Reply to  Gerald Machnee
February 28, 2021 9:44 am

That’s better than nothing, no question

StevenF
Reply to  Farmer Ch E retired
February 28, 2021 7:17 am

There really are no studies that show that Vit D from from “natural sources” is superior to any other type of Vit D, as long as it is D3. What matters is your blood level.

It is easy to rationalize why it would be better but that hasn’t been proven one way or the other. I am not sure how to design a study that would prove that given how difficult it would be to contro.

One of the big problems with Vit D has to do with adequate blood levels. 35 mcg/dl is considered normal. That is probably too low in reality. I keep mine in the 70s. No proof that it is better but some anecdotal data that 70 is better than 35.

David A
Reply to  StevenF
March 1, 2021 10:19 pm

There are numerous surplus benefits to solar radiation. Tomomason below gives one..

Michael D
Reply to  StevenF
March 3, 2021 7:37 am

Steven I worked outside in the sun in a rather physical occupation (Field Service Engineer) for 35 yrs and my physiological age and appearance were measurably much lower my chronological age.

I retired and became much less active and much less sun exposure and within ten years my physiological age vs chronological age had reversed.

I found a naturopathic health adviser who explained our food in the USA is severely lacking in micronutrients. We spend too much time inside and the unreasonable use of sunblock combined make good health difficult at best. (During those 35 yrs I never wore sunblock and am of Irish northern European descent.)
After a year of a wide range of supplements and a target range of D3 80 mcg/dl my health has improved dramatically! I am out daily among people and I do NOT wear a mask.

One instance anecdotal and proves nothing however the improvement in my quality of life is remarkable.

tom0mason
Reply to  Farmer Ch E retired
February 28, 2021 9:44 am

Sunlight on the skin also activates the production of nitric oxide. Nitric oxide levels to go up and high blood pressure to go down. High blood pressure leads to heart attacks, strokes, and arteriosclerosis.
See https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15368974

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 5:45 am

Just to be clear, the result you posted does not imply or state that people with plenty of Vitamin D will not get a severe case and will not die.
It said the mortality is increased in some deficient patients.

And now ? I think everybody here is able to understand what I pasted in my comment, what the abstract said, without your “discriminating” comment.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 28, 2021 7:27 am

Everyone here that has the aptitude and is paying attention can read everything that has been said and see who knows what they are talking about, and who is merely being an unhelpful and “unpleasant” troll.
You are an antivaxer.
As such, you are irrational and unscientific.
You should stop being that.

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 8:52 am

To name me an antivaxer is somewhat problematic, that’s the pleasants way to contradict your assertion, drawn out of the nowhere.
I’m waiting Astrazeneca is allowed for over 65, must see what’s about the here discussed J&J.
So I’m certainely not an antivaxer, please be carefull with your words !

Last edited 4 months ago by Krishna Gans
John Dilks
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 9:18 am

Nicholas, you are an argumentative fool. Your comments are getting tiresome.
I am one who is not going to get vaccinated for a disease that has a survival rate of over 99%. This last year has been one of BS panic the whole year. The governments have destroyed more people by their actions than this virus has. This Century has become one of over-reaction to everything and constant media-driven panic. I am tired of it. Y2K, flu after flu after flu, mosquito born diseases spreading world-wide, etc.
If you want to continue to panic, go ahead. I am done with panic. I’ll take my supplements, get outdoor exercise, live life while I have it.
I am not afraid of covid, because there are treatments that work quite well and even in my age group the survival rate is over 98%.
In my state, 200 people in my age group die every week. That is 10,400 per year (every year) compared to 1800 who died with covid this past year.

DonM
Reply to  John Dilks
February 28, 2021 10:29 am

Hi John,

The Frank Gallagher impersonator appears to have some other motive; it is unclear what that is.

He first tried to talk down zinc as unimportant (and while trying to defend his statements, twisted his logic back around on himself to show what he actually is).

“… the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine was 72% effective at preventing all COVID-19 and 86% effective at preventing severe cases of the disease.”

My questions:

What is the the rate, for a healthy population, of showing symptoms (as a result of acting as a temporary host to the virus)? Is it around 70%?

For those that do show symptoms, what is the rate of “severe cases”? Is it around 15%?

David A
Reply to  DonM
February 28, 2021 9:03 pm

Don, the answers extremely depend on ones health and age. No where near 15 percent of symptomatic people in most age groups have a severe case. Read my comment here.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/02/27/how-does-the-johnson-johnson-vaccine-compare-to-other-coronavirus-vaccines-4-questions-answered/#comment-3196297

It is highly likely that far more people are asymptomatic or have very mild cases then most realize. Less then 100 per day are dying in India.

David A
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 8:52 pm

It is a simple fact that most people ” will not get a severe case and will not die.”. And not by a little margin, but by a very large margin.

India has pushed Ivermectin, HCQ, and Sunshine. India has zero social distancing among millions living in the slums, where often 50 to 150 share one toilet! India has a population density close to 12 times the US population. India has a death rate that is about 7 percent of the US. 99 percent of active cases are cured! There is very little, if any, evidence of long term harms in those now well. Approximately 15 percent or more of the population shows antibodies, meaning well over 200 million may have had the Wuflu at one time, possibly many more.
India has almost 30 million citizens age 65 plus then the US has. The death rate in India is far far lower then the flu when those likely exposed are considered.

Here are the two web sites which now have over 100 studies which show the efficacy of HCQ:
https://c19study.co
https://hcqmeta.com/

The CDC just admitted in its own report that asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic transmission within households – a key justification for lockdowns – turns out to be virtually nonexistent. Household transmission is the primary mode of infection for COVID-19.most significant portion of the analysis finds that while asymptomatic and presymptomatic cases account for just 0.7% of transmission, symptomatic cases had an 18% attack rate within the household. In other words, most people who contract COVID-19 at home were infected by someone who was visibly ill.

“Estimated mean household secondary attack rate from symptomatic index cases (18.0%; 95% CI, 14.2%-22.1%) was significantly higher than from asymptomatic or presymptomatic index cases (0.7%; 95% CI, 0%-4.9%; P < .001), although there were few studies in the latter group. These findings are consistent with other household studies28,70 reporting asymptomatic index cases as having limited role in household transmission," reads the study. The lockdowns are foolishness at this point. The suppression of the effectiveness of HCQ, Ivertmican, and Sunshine derived Vitamin D is criminal.

For most people with decent nutrition, sunshine, and younger then 65, a vaccine is very possibly more dangerous then the Wuflu.

Reply to  David A
March 1, 2021 8:34 am

You may have a look at Turkey

There HCQ is used since the beginning.

GermanyCoronavirus Cases:2,451,822
Deaths:70,718

TurkeyCoronavirus Cases:2,701,588
Deaths:28,569

They have more cases iin Turkey but somewhat more than 1/3 of death…..

Derg
Reply to  whiten
February 28, 2021 10:56 am

Whiten you should try Ghalfrunt’s idea of drinking bleach 😉

mcswell
Reply to  newt2u
February 28, 2021 10:22 am

this global experiment on RNA vaccinations”: The three vaccines approved for use in the US have already gone through the experiments; they are no longer experimental. Stop making excuses.

Derg
Reply to  mcswell
February 28, 2021 11:00 am

Trump was amazing getting these vaccines out there

Frank Rizzo
Reply to  mcswell
March 1, 2021 8:24 am

So they have followed the protocol where vaccines typically go through a 5 to 10 year development cycle where by there is long term monitoring to make sure there are no long term problems? Also please name me one other vaccine using mRNA that has been approved for human use? …Let along developed and approved for emergency use in less than a year. The adenovirus version I may be more prone to take, but still will wait at least 5 years to see what the science says. You see science, good science anyway, doesn’t usually take place on the timescale of months and/or a year, but many years and in some cases decades. This is especially true when dealing with a biological system as complex as the human body.

You seem to be misinformed about how science works and the types of evidence and protocols used to safely develop vaccines. Notice I am not claiming that these vaccines are necessarily going to harm anyone long term, but that the evidence isn’t there to confidently say that they won’t. Once the science is there I will be onboard with taking a vaccine.

James
Reply to  David Guy-Johnson
March 1, 2021 2:28 am

Real science once told us the world was flat.

John burns
Reply to  David Guy-Johnson
March 2, 2021 1:20 pm

And you are a brainwashed sheeple
By the way the earth is flat !

Tom Foley
Reply to  Abolition Man
February 28, 2021 12:53 am

An Epidemic affects a large number of people within a community, population, or region.
A Pandemic is an epidemic that’s spread over multiple countries or continents.
Endemic is a disease established in a particular people or country.
An Outbreak is a greater than expected increase in the number of endemic cases. If it’s not quickly controlled, an outbreak can become an epidemic.

Even if Covid19 has or will become endemic to one or more countries, it is currently still in epidemic form in many countries across the world, and so is still a pandemic.

Abolition Man
Reply to  Tom Foley
February 28, 2021 3:19 am

We are already almost past our SECOND season of the ChiCom-19 virus; a moderately strong, seasonal corona virus that was deliberately spread around the world by the CCP! Our infection and fatality rates here in the northern US are dropping rapidly in spite of the flawed tests with their huge number of false positives; as the respiratory virus season wanes!
This virus was brought here much earlier than most thought; the CCP encouraged travel from Wuhan back in November, 2019; although their own experts were worried about the new virus spreading there! The virus was found in human sewage in South America from samples taken in December of 2019!
The hysterical response was purposefully amplified by the lies and propaganda of the ChiComs; an international criminal organization, and their allied crime gang: the DemoKKKrat Party of the US! Cases and fatalities were purposefully inflated to help the media panic the public; while effective drugs like ivermectin and HCQ were banned to keep rational minds from calming the fears of weak-minded children that we ALL were going to die! Yes, we all are going to die; probably not today, hopefully not tomorrow and very rarely from the Wuhan flu unless we are quite elderly or suffer from ill health!
I just wish more of the public would wake up to how this virus has been used to cow you into submission! I’m sorry if you have health concerns that make bad outcomes more likely; I can do nothing about that but I recommend you practice good hygiene and protect yourself as best you can! The rest of the public needs to get back to work and go back to school; the harmful effects of our inept response are going to be MUCH worse than the harm from the virus and they will be with us for decades, if not generations!

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Abolition Man
February 28, 2021 5:08 am

“I can do nothing about that but I recommend you practice good hygiene and protect yourself as best you can!”
That is not what you did.
You went out of your way to tell people they should not do the thing that is known to be the only way to wipe out a contagious disease.

Abolition Man
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 6:02 am

Wow! I had no idea that there had never been an infectious disease until after we developed vaccines! Or were you trying to imply that the lockdowns are not an order of magnitude worse than the harm done by the virus?
Please clarify because I am reluctant to try and read your mind!

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Abolition Man
February 28, 2021 7:31 am

I said nothing about lockdowns.
Your first sentence makes no sense.
Try just reading my words.
And stop with the antivax nonsense.
All of you.
It is irrational and harmful.

Abolition Man
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 8:36 am

I’ll say it slowly so you can follow more easily! You claim that a vaccine is “the only way to wipe out a contagious disease!”
I would like you to point out the vaccines that were used to wipe out the Black Death and the Spanish Flu!
I know that Fauxi and the drug companies have put a lot of money and effort into convincing everyone that a vaccine is necessary; perhaps I’ll be willing to comply in a few years if it looks like ChiCom-19 virus is getting worse and the available treatments for it cease working. Right now it seems to be following the usual seasonal pattern of a respiratory illness in temperate regions, so don’t hold your breath!

David A
Reply to  Abolition Man
February 28, 2021 9:07 pm

Heard Immunity is an excellent way to wipe out a disease.

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 8:42 am

How about you stop with using derogatory ad hominem terminology intended to stifle dissent?

Being skeptical of a series of vaccines rushed into production under emergency authorizations, using technology that’s still in its infancy, has never before been used on a large scale and with no body of evidence regarding potential long term side effects or consequences is hardly irrational.

Especially when you consider that this new technology, emergency vaccine is in place to combat a virus with a 99.5% survivability rate up to age 65 and substantially higher survivability rates as age decreases, and which many (if not most) “sufferers” don’t even realize they have it.

Stating those subjectively rational reservations about this particular series of vaccines, does not make me an anti-vaxxer.

You invoking that ad hominem attack, however, demonstrates that you are more than happy to engage in logical fallacies and demonization of your ideological foes. To me this is prima facia evidence that you are not presenting your argument in good faith. In my opinion, when someone is not arguing in good faith, nothing they say can be trusted and their arguments should be dismissed out of hand.

John Dilks
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 9:22 am

Calm down, you are going into a full-blown panic attack.

wiredman
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 9:13 am

‘…known to be the only way to wipe out a contagious disease.’

How did the Spanish Flu end without vaccines?

Farmer Ch E retired
Reply to  Abolition Man
February 28, 2021 6:23 am

“Our infection and fatality rates here in the northern US are dropping rapidly . . .”

I expected to find that the USA deaths in 2020 were higher because of CV-19. After analyzing data from knoema.com, I didn’t find what was expected. I found that the USA death rate has been increasing since about 2010 and the increase over the past 5 years has been relatively flat: 2016 +11%, 2017 +11%, 2018 +12%, 2019 +11%, and 2020 +11%. This does not mean CV-19 isn’t a problem but it sure leads to many more inconvenient questions.

Slide1.JPG
huls
Reply to  Tom Foley
February 28, 2021 3:50 am

A PLANDEMIC is what the WHO has introduced in the form of Covid or corona. They had a testrun with the Mexican Flu some ten years ago. That was also a big hoax.
We are being played, there is no virus, no disease, no pandemic and no extra deaths.
Oh and were is the flu gone? Literally zero flu cases. Who in their right mind believes such utter nonsense?

whiten
Reply to  huls
February 28, 2021 4:57 am

SarsCov-2 seems to be kinda of a natural universal flu vaccine… doesn’t it? 🙂
Got rid of the seasonal flu apparently! NO??

What good a man-made vaccine against it does?!

cheers

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  whiten
February 28, 2021 7:41 am

There is virtually no international travel, and just about everyone is wearing a mask.
There are few if any large gatherings of people.
Flu has to spread around the world every year.
It is not very surprising that how everyone is reacting to covid has had an effect on other contagious diseases.
In other news, kids committing suicide are way up.
So is alcoholism and drug abuse.
Large numbers of children have not been to school in a year, and in some places the teachers are refusing to go back to work, indefinitely.
The left is using this whole situation to further their aims.
We should all want it over as soon as possible.
Maybe a few diseases have had their chain of transmission broken and will be gone for good or at least greatly reduced for a while, once this is over…if it ever is.
I am willing to do what I can to put it behind us.

Strangely though, nothing about any of this seems very funny to me, and I can see the humor in pretty much anything.

wiredman
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 9:17 am

All of what you said above is true. Then why did the Chi-Com virus continue to spread if all the above worked to dampen the flu? Hint, it didn’t dampen the flu. Hospitals are incentivized to claim every respiratory infection is the Chi-Com virus.

whiten
Reply to  wiredman
February 28, 2021 11:57 am

Well another thank you again.

Another bingo. 🙂

huls
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 9:19 am

Unfortunately, these doctors do not agree with you. They state that Flu cannot clinically be distingushed from Covid-19. Seems we’re having a normal Flu season and the powers that be decided to go all out on it.
https://primary-hospital-care.ch/article/doi/phc-d.2020.10323

whiten
Reply to  huls
February 28, 2021 12:07 pm

Oh, again, bingo.

For/in the last year at the very least flu seems to have really perished like never before…

For the first time in modern history, no any proper statistical flu data there…

What happened to flu, statistically perished, to the established statistical oblivion.

cheers

Derg
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 11:03 am

What happened to the flu?

whiten
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 11:56 am

Thank you Nick.

Bingo.

JEHILL
Reply to  Abolition Man
February 28, 2021 1:30 am

Yeah man, I know how to keep myself healthy. I’ve spent many years traveling. Met and been around people from all over the planet.

My Wuhan Flu exposure came from sharing Christmas Dinner with my brother who did not tell me was of had been sick.

Not share why you are yelling at and assuming I’m an idiot. I eat paleo and clean and stay ketogenic most of the time. Lift weights, etc.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  JEHILL
February 28, 2021 5:11 am

I know how to keep myself healthy.”
“My Wuhan Flu exposure came from sharing Christmas Dinner with my brother who did not tell me was of had been sick.”

Read those two sentences and think for a minute.

MAL
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 9:34 am

They have know for a long time how COVID-19 spread’s, it is via aerosol and being in and enclosed space with a CIVID-19 infected person in said close space for more than 15 minutes. He caught in the classic way. It not spread in the most part in restraints, stores, gyms or outdoors. Of the four pandemics I live through this one is coming in third. If you are over 70 it is coming in fourth. The 1951 pandemic killed about 3% of those who got, just like the plain old flu did prior to the advent of antibiotics which the wide spread use of them kick in after 1951. Wake up snowflake you been had.

Abolition Man
Reply to  JEHILL
February 28, 2021 5:40 am

I’m glad you keep yourself healthy; why do you assume I was yelling at you?
I think I may have had the virus early last year, but I don’t trust American medicine as I have a brother who is an MD! It sometimes seems it would be hard to find a group more ignorant of general health and nutrition than the medical establishment! They DO have an amazing pharmacopoeia to dose their victims, oops, I mean patients with, however!

Farmer Ch E retired
Reply to  Abolition Man
February 28, 2021 5:46 am

” . . . explain why the ivermectin and HCQ treatments are not just as effective”

You likely will not get an answer as long as politicians cherry pick the science to achieve a “higher” agenda (usually involving the flow of money or power in a desired direction). Data from a Cox analysis projected a hazard ratio for HCQ in conjunction with azithromycin as follows: HR = 0.29, 95% CI 0.22-0.40, P <0.001. This means the death reduction is projected to be 71% (60% to 78% within the 95% confidence interval). This was published in the January edition of The American Journal of Medicine. There were 20+ anthers from 8 States and Italy and 55 references. I posted a link to the article on Facebook and shortly thereafter it was censored by a Political Officer (aka Fact Checker).

(https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(20)30673-2/fulltext)

Abolition Man
Reply to  Farmer Ch E retired
February 28, 2021 6:20 am

Thanks for the response!
I believe that the Big Tech Nazis of Twatter and Facebook are just as responsible for the tens of thousands of excess deaths we suffered here in the US as our criminally corrupt politicians and bureaucrats!
Lil’ Tony Fauxi is not only the highest paid government employee; he also stands to make a lot of money from the drug companies and, like many in federal employ, he probably gets regular gifts and benefits from the Chinese!
Our government is like woman of loose morals who, finding a new sugar daddy with lots of cash to throw around, wants the old boyfriend, John Q Public, to go away and stop bothering her! The only problem is that she doesn’t actually own the house and other assets; we’ve been letting her live there while she puts her life in order, and it looks like a failure so far!

mcswell
Reply to  Abolition Man
February 28, 2021 10:21 am

I suggest you look up the terms ‘endemic’ and ‘pandemic’, they do not mean what you think they mean.

Abolition Man
Reply to  mcswell
February 28, 2021 11:30 am

That was actually the point I was trying to make! ChiCom-19 is here, it isn’t going away!
We are just about at the END of the season for respiratory viruses in temperate regions; if you don’t believe me, look at Hope-Simpson’s work!
This is the second season for this virus; the epidemic was last year! Part of the confusion comes from the US being so large that we have both tropical and temperate states that have different seasons for these viruses; at least according to his book. There has been a great deal of confusion about just what is occurring that has been greatly exacerbated by the suppression of dissent; even when coming from doctors and epidemiologists!
Just as with the CAGW debate, skeptics are attacked and banned from presenting their views! But science without skepticism is not science, and consensus is a political term!

John Howe
Reply to  JEHILL
February 27, 2021 11:59 pm

If you have already had the Wuhan Flue there should be no reason for you to get vaccinated as you would already have the antibodies.

JEHILL
Reply to  John Howe
February 28, 2021 1:34 am

I work in the healthcare sector as Medical Systems Engineer at PT cancer treatment center.

StevenF
Reply to  JEHILL
February 28, 2021 7:32 am

Just curious. What is a medical systems engineer? I am a physician and have never heard of that role. Thanks

John Dilks
Reply to  StevenF
February 28, 2021 9:27 am

Repair man for medical equipment and associated computer systems. Just a guess.

StevenF
Reply to  John Howe
February 28, 2021 1:59 am

There have been plenty of studies showing that one dose of the mRNA vaccines act like a booster, increasing significantly the number of antibodies you have if you were previously infected with COVID. So there is a benefit in getting vaccinated even if you had COVID in the past. What is interesting is that the second dose shows little additional benefit.

whiten
Reply to  StevenF
February 28, 2021 3:33 am

StevenF

Very wrong mate.

There is a reason why there is no HIV-AIDS vaccine.
Because there is no any benefit in vaccinating against the already infected that already have immune response…
as, in contrary it makes things worse.

Even in earlier days of mass vaccination of children it was known and also regarded seriously the possibility of problems with the immune system if a child happened to be exposed to the viral infection disease prior to the corresponding vaccination.
There were even specific treatments for such cases when identified.

That is why usually mass vaccination of children is applied as early as possible,
reducing the chances of such a problem.

There is no benefit at all in a vaccination after the exposure to the corresponding infection-disease.
Also no benefit at all from repeated vaccination against the same disease.
Only problems, sometimes prety serious health problems.
Especially when it comes to seasonal respiratory diseases.

cheers

huls
Reply to  whiten
February 28, 2021 3:52 am

These are not vaccines. This is gene therapy, a whole different ballgame from vaccination. The one has literally nothing to do with the other

whiten
Reply to  huls
February 28, 2021 5:00 am

Hopefully, fingers crossed.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  huls
February 28, 2021 5:11 am

Bullshit.
You have no idea what you are talking about.

huls
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 8:42 am

Please expand your sofar extremely eloquent argument

StevenF
Reply to  whiten
February 28, 2021 7:26 am

Unfortunately, you are conflating two unrelated issues. The reason there is no HIV vaccine is because the virus is much more mutable than most viruses and more importantly the target is the immune system itself. That complicates the situation greatly.

Now about the question of whether a vaccine dose after having the virus is of benefit or not. The answer is that it is. It has been shown that after having the virus and then taking the vaccine that you mount a more robust response than just having the virus by itself.

So far no negative has been shown from vaccination after illness. For example, the question of antibody dependent enhancement has not been shown to be an issue (the mechanism doesn’t exist in COVID, ie no white cell involvement, and no evidence among the millions of doses given).

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  whiten
February 28, 2021 7:44 am
griff
Reply to  John Howe
February 28, 2021 9:57 am

you can get it twice. My neighbours had it April and December last year (tested and verified)

DonM
Reply to  griff
February 28, 2021 1:27 pm

we are not talking about syphilis here …

… and leave your poor neighbor alone.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  JEHILL
February 28, 2021 5:05 am

JEHill,
What you have written here demonstrates ignorance.
Excuse me for saying so (sorry, not sorry), but if you think you had it, and think you would be tested to verify that or disconfirm it by getting a PCR test, then you have no idea what you are talking about.
Leaving aside why you think not being very trusting of PCR testing means it is sensible to not try to find out if you are now immune by dint of having been infected and getting over it, leaving that nonsensical train of logic aside, you should know that if someone has been infected and is now recovered, you would not get a PCR test…it will not tell anyone anything.
That test is only for people with a suspected active infection…it looks for viral RNA on the lining of the respiratory mucosa.
Someone who had it and is recovered gets tested by a blood test for antibodies.
When I had the blood test, they did several different tests on it in case one test was not 100% reliable.
But even the ones that are less than 100% are worth getting.
You do not even know if you need a vaccine or not.
And you claim to be a medical professional?
Frankly, I find it shocking.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
If you succeed in what is apparently an effort to dissuade people from being vaccinated or even tested, we will never be over this effed up sh!t show.
And we will have intransigence like yours to thank for that.
You claim to know how to stay healthy, and yet had a Holiday dinner with someone or ones, without bothering to find out if they had been sick?
And you make a point of talking about how widely you travel and mingle?
Sounds like what you know is…you know how to make sure you are smug but dangerous.

I could have kept all of this to myself…and would have, if you had first done the same.
What ever happened to common sense?

Last edited 4 months ago by Nicholas McGinley
Derg
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 2:32 pm

Nicholas you should stay away from everyone and let the rest of us move on.

Fran
Reply to  JEHILL
February 28, 2021 8:46 am

I cannot understand why anyone is recommending vaccine to people who have had the virus. Instead of immunity to one measly spike protein, your immune system has seen lots of different epitopes and been primed to all of them – much better immunity. In the whole world the repeat cases can be counted on the fingers of 2 hands and there have to be that many people with dicky immune systems.

There seems to be a concerted attempt to make the plebs think that immunity only comes from vaccines.

Michael D
Reply to  JEHILL
March 2, 2021 12:58 pm

Kary Mullis, Ph.D. biochemist, Noble laureate, inventor of the PCR test stated PCR was not to used to diagnose viral infections. He furthermore stated “Fauci is an idiot”.
If you haven’t already watch the videos of him stating the above I urge you to do so.

RoHa
February 27, 2021 10:55 pm

I note that the only comparisons are with the Astra-Zeneca, the Moderna, and the Pfizer. What about comparison with the other vaccines, such as the Sputnik V and the CoronaVac?

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  RoHa
February 27, 2021 11:09 pm

LOL!

Duker
Reply to  RoHa
February 27, 2021 11:12 pm

those arent approved for use in US. Its a pointless comparison as its not a smorgasbord of vaccines to choose from

RoHa
Reply to  Duker
February 28, 2021 9:21 pm

But there are other countries in the world beside the US, and those of us who live in them are interested in vaccines.

Duker
Reply to  RoHa
March 1, 2021 2:40 pm

You wont be getting a choice no matter the vaccines chosen by your country, as going to the doctor and getting your pick. Even if your country uses the other vaccines you mention, the comparisons are made by experienced medical personnel.
The sheer numbers to be vaccinated over as short a time as possible means as they become available they get allocated to clinics etc , its a matter of choice of having a vaccine or not.
maybe in 18 months time they will have some sort of investigations of how different vaccines work, but peoples reactions vary so much with medication anyway difficult to say one is better than another. Hopefully the dud ones , like Australia’s are picked up during testing – and that wasnt because of its covid response

Alex
Reply to  RoHa
February 28, 2021 1:29 am

J&J is just the first component of Sputnik V.
It uses the same adenovirus rAd26.
Sputnik V however has the second component based on rAd5 that J&J does not have.
Thus, J&J is identical to “Sputnik light”

Honest Lee
Reply to  Alex
February 28, 2021 3:11 am

Of note: Johnson & Johnson was the major pharmaceutical corporate sponsor in John Hopkins – Bill Gates Event 201 coronavirus pandemic “exercise” held on Oct 17, 2019, one month before the COVID-1984 outbreak took place.
https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/191017-press-release.html

Duker
Reply to  Honest Lee
March 1, 2021 2:46 pm

That group has been running ‘desktop’ pandemic exercises since 2001… this may shock you but pandemics actually occur quite often, so its useful to prepare.
Gates has been talking about these things since 2015 , not just last year
 In a March 2015 TED Talk, Gates argued, “If we start now, we can be ready for the next epidemic.” During a Vox interview in May that year, Gates also said, “the Ebola epidemic showed me that we are not ready for a serious epidemic.”

StevenF
Reply to  RoHa
February 28, 2021 2:01 am

The biggest reason for not comparing those two vaccines is the lack of well designed and managed controlled trials. There really isn’t data to use to compare. For example, even though the Sputnik vaccine has been approved, it is only now going through FDA type of trials.

February 27, 2021 11:05 pm

informative , i m a indian n have many options

Duker
Reply to  nitin
March 1, 2021 2:48 pm

Get yourself informed then, or better still take the earliest vaccine you can get hold of , anyone…now that is proved to be the best choice

ggm
February 27, 2021 11:07 pm

The only thing that I am concerned with these vaccines is their potential safety. Which one will be least likely to cause problems. I have 2 auto-immune conditions, so I am VERY concerned about vaccines that mess with the immune system. I would desperately like to know which of these has the least chance of long term issues – but since they have only been around for 6 months no one knows.

David Guy-Johnson
Reply to  ggm
February 28, 2021 12:26 am

Actually they do know. you need to keep up with science’s progress

JEHILL
Reply to  David Guy-Johnson
February 28, 2021 1:45 am

Nothing about this past year in human existence has had anything to do with science.

ggm
Reply to  David Guy-Johnson
February 28, 2021 2:10 am

That is false. These vaccines have been tested for less than 6 months. Radically new drugs like these would normally have at least a 2 year test period – for good reason – there have been many new drugs over the years that produced harmful side affects after 12-18 months. Maybe you should keep up a little more with science’s actual progress instead of what you imagine it is.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  ggm
February 28, 2021 5:34 am

Name some vaccines that have been shown to produce dangerous side effects after 12-18 months?
Here is a hint: There are none…that has never happened with this sort of medication.
It is not scientific or even logical to compare a drug like vaccine with drugs that are taken in large doses over long periods of time.
Not logical to compare any two things which have nothing in common.

And in any case, the issue is relative danger.
Chemotherapy drugs and radiation are both very dangerous.
But not compared to untreated cancer.
So they are deemed to be highly beneficial even though they are dangerous and toxic and damaging.

The risk of a vaccine is logically compared to the risk of not getting it and instead getting the viral illness the vaccine prevents.
Every drug is weighed this way. It is called a risk-benefit analysis.

Some drugs are not approved even though they may be relatively safe and have some degree of efficacy. This is what happens if there are existing treatments that are more safe and/or more effective.
When there are no existing treatments, the safety and efficacy can only be weighed versus the risk from the condition the drug targets.

Last edited 4 months ago by Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 6:08 am

GGM:
for good reason – there have been many new drugs over the years that produced harmful side affects after 12-18 months

You:
Name some vaccines that have been shown to produce dangerous side effects after 12-18 months?

You see the difference ?
As I was young, it was usual to prescript anti flu drugs with Phenacetin.
Later, they were forbidden because beeing respnsible for kidney damages.

Gerald Machnee
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 28, 2021 7:26 am

There was a drug that caused deformed limbs in babies.
There was a heart drug taken off the market a decade or two ago. However it was very effective against Gout.

MAL
Reply to  Gerald Machnee
February 28, 2021 9:53 am

It was call Thalidomide. A quick search found this:

Thalidomide was a widely used drug in the late 1950s and early 1960s for the treatment of nausea in pregnant women. It became apparent in the 1960s that thalidomide treatment resulted in severe birth defects in thousands of children.”

I knew the name of the drug so the search was a bit easier. I have also seen the results of it, it really was a mess for the children that suffered the effects of it.

whiten
Reply to  MAL
February 28, 2021 1:26 pm

Thalidomide is/was a wonder medication.
Problem with it, highly stigmatized, due to wide spread careless handling.

In some point in time past was considered as a refreshing “candy”.

In some places it was sold and could be bought in any pharmacy without prescription.

The main and only potential side effect, interference with pregnancy… otherwise a life saving, highly potential at that, for a wide range of diseases.

You will be surprised how many latest day Thalidomide form medications are in use today, known by other names…. only served in very specific conditions and specific sensitive prescriptions… very very effective life saving drugs.

cheers

tom0mason
Reply to  Gerald Machnee
February 28, 2021 10:02 am

I would think you mean Contergan or Thalomid aka Thalidomide (also had other trade names). See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide

StevenF
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 28, 2021 7:39 am

Most drugs that have long term side effects have to do with well established mechanisms by which the drug is metabolized. Many drugs are metabolized by the kidney using one of various pathways and the problem you are talking about is a function of damage that occurs during that process. In addition, it is often a dose response in that a greater dose over time leads to more damage, some of which is irreversible.

Vaccines have nothing to do with any of this. They are not metabolized like a drug. There is also no dose response curve involving metabolites.

To equate the two is wrong.

Reply to  StevenF
February 28, 2021 9:14 am

To equate the two is wrong.
That’s why I posted my comment The one write about drugs, the other lamented about vaccines as answer.

Reply to  StevenF
February 28, 2021 9:55 am

Immunization is one of the greatest public health achievements of the 20th century. Vaccines have enabled the eradication of deadly diseases and decreased the morbidity and mortality associated with various infections. Most vaccines are safe to administer and cause only minor side effects. Although very rare, various glomerular diseases and acute kidney injury have been reported following immunization with certain vaccines including influenza, pneumococcal, and hepatitis B vaccines. This review summarizes these rare renal complications that have been published in the literature. Physicians and other health-care providers administrating vaccines should be aware of these very rare but possible renal side effects

Vaccine-associated kidney diseases: A narrative review of the literature
Rare, but not null !

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 28, 2021 7:49 am

If you had better reading comprehension, you would know that I was pointing out the difference.
It was the person I was responding too that was pretending there is none.

Do you know what the discussion is about?
Antivaxers make me sick.

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 9:15 am

Read my answer written above about your more than wrong assertion.

Fran
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 9:22 am

I am as enthusiastic about vaccines as anyone can be. But a vaccine where the Phase 3 trial does not end for another 2 years is a bit much for me to take.

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 9:31 am

Antivaxers make me sick.

Ask your doctor for a vaccine as fast as possible, not that you die off 😀

John Dilks
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 9:40 am

These are not vaccines. They are not dead, weak or inactive versions of the virus. They are modifying our cells to make them look like the virus so that our bodies will generate an immune response. There are many things that can go wrong, it is a matter of time to see what actually does go wrong.

MAL
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 9:55 am

You mistaken claims only help the Anti-vaxxers.

Last edited 4 months ago by MAL
Fran
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 9:20 am

The dengue vaccine – Antibody Dependent Enhancement. Look it up in wiki. The bad effects come when you get reinfected and that might take years. ADE has been observed for many positive strand RNA viruses. including corona viruses.

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 9:25 am

Swine flu vaccination in the mid-1970s ring a bell? Anyone? Bueller?

MAL
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 9:46 am

The Salk vaccine early 1950. I had it before they figured this out. I was lucky some were not.

“When the U.S. Surgeon General questioned the safety of the trial vaccine, all polio vaccination programs were brought to a halt. An investigation revealed that it was responsible for 11 deaths, and hundreds of cases of paralysis. Apparently, some of the vaccines may not have been produced according to Salk’s methods and still contained active type 1 poliovirus. When the U.S. Surgeon General questioned the safety of the trial vaccine, all polio vaccination programs were brought to a halt. An investigation revealed that it was responsible for 11 deaths, and hundreds of cases of paralysis. Apparently, some of the vaccines may not have been produced according to Salk’s methods and still contained active type 1 poliovirus.” 

This was found on Health Insights.

They now use the Sabin Vaccine for Polio, which I also got. It a well know story, funny you don’t know that.

Last edited 4 months ago by MAL
Sparko
Reply to  David Guy-Johnson
February 28, 2021 7:34 am

They don’t know, they haven’t had enough time to know. Some long term effects will only become apparent once a condition has had time to develop. Simple common sense

StevenF
Reply to  ggm
February 28, 2021 2:04 am

Of the two types, by their very nature the mRNA vaccine are the safest. All they do is deliver mRNA, a form of blueprint, to your cells that are incorporated into the protein manufacturing process and then dissolve into component parts after the cell makes the proteins. They have no long term effect on the cells.

Alex
Reply to  StevenF
February 28, 2021 3:30 am

mRNA delivers some message.
A cell reads it. Somehow.
Correctly?
Certainly not always.
You will be immune to smth.
But to what?
By a chance, it can be your own protein…

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Alex
February 28, 2021 5:36 am

That is laughably dumb and ridiculous, and can only be considered the utterance of someone who has no idea of that which they speak of.

ggm
Reply to  StevenF
February 28, 2021 4:13 am

The one I am most interested in is the Russian one that uses the inactivated actual COVID virus (just like old school vaccines). Fortunately, by the time vaccination gets around to my age group here in Australia, the vaccines will have been trialed for well over a year, and by then I’ll be confident of their safety.

StevenF
Reply to  ggm
February 28, 2021 7:44 am

Given that these vaccines have had at least a 100 million + doses world wide and are being followed very carefully with no significant complications, I think the data is pretty safe.

The reason that trials can usually last years is because it normally takes that long to acquire the numbers necessary to prove the lack or presence of complications. In this situation, we’ve been able to speed up the process because of the number of doses given. There is nothing magical about time unless there is a possible mechanism that suggests time is an issue.

But in the case of vaccines, there is no time based mechanism. So it is strictly a numbers game and the numbers are there.

John
Reply to  StevenF
February 28, 2021 8:49 am

“Given that these vaccines have had at least a 100 million + doses world wide and are being followed very carefully with no significant complications, I think the data is pretty safe.“

Giving a vaccine first to the elderly without regard to underlying conditions has resulted in deaths. Many elderly with underlying conditions can get sick from the vaccine which to some is enough to produce death. As of Feb 1, 271 persons have died after being vaccinated according to Lifesite news. My own father died within a week of getting the vaccine. So please don’t pass nonsense that no significant complications occur!

Last edited 4 months ago by John
MAL
Reply to  StevenF
February 28, 2021 10:07 am

Wrong there is a known problem with them and it is the ingredient polyethylene glycol, some people have and anaphylactic reaction to that chemical. My wife is one of them. I have gotten the shot of the Pfizer vaccine. My wife will have to wait for the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. I check the ingredient list of the Johnsons and Johnson vaccine and polyethylene glycol is not in it.

AS with all thing people are different, blanket statements of it is safe aid the Anti-vaxxers.

Reply to  MAL
February 28, 2021 10:55 am

I read it’s a known contraindication if people are allergic sufferer.

MarkG
Reply to  StevenF
February 28, 2021 7:38 pm

If you don’t count things like miscarriage, death and blindness as ‘significant complications’, yes.

And companies have been trying to get an mRNA virus through safety testing for quite a few years. As far as I’m aware, none has ever managed that.

Last edited 4 months ago by MarkG
SF Sciguy
Reply to  StevenF
March 2, 2021 5:04 am

So safe that there has never been an mRNA vaccine approved for use in humans. For years, Moderna has tried for flu mRNA vax for years but couldn’t stop killing its host and get through Phase 1. And we are supposed to believe they nailed this one from the jump? First one ever. Color me skeptical.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  ggm
February 28, 2021 5:24 am

If you are worried about safety, get vaccinated.
If one of your conditions is Lupus, you should know how dangerous it is for you to get a viral respiratory infection.
But in fact with any rheumatic disease, let alone two of them, you are at an increased risk of hospitalization, increased risk of severe disease, and may well be at a greatly increased risk or mortality if you get the virus.

Incidence and severeness of COVID-19 hospitalisation in patients with inflammatory rheumatic disease: a nationwide cohort study from Denmark

Methods: A nationwide cohort study from Denmark between 1 March to 12 August 2020. The adjusted incidence of COVID-19 hospitalisation was estimated for patients with RA; spondyloarthritis including psoriatic arthritis; connective tissue disease; vasculitides; and non-IRD individuals.Further, the incidence of COVID-19 hospitalisation was estimated for patients with RA treated respectively non-treated with TNF-inhibitors, hydroxychloroquine, or glucocorticoids.Lastly, the incidence of severe COVID-19 infection (intensive care, acute respiratory distress syndrome, or death) among hospital-admitted patients was estimated for RA and non-IRD individudals.
Results: Patients with IRD (n = 58,052) had an increased partially adjusted incidence of hospitalisation with COVID-19 compared with the 4.5 million people in the general population (HR 1.46, 95%CI 1.15 to 1.86) with strongest associations for patients with RA (n = 29,440, HR 1.72, 95%CI 1.29 to 2.30) and vasculitides (n = 4072, HR 1.82, 95%CI 0.91 to 3.64). There was no increased incidence of COVID-19 hospitalisation associated with TNF-inhibitor, hydroxychloroquine nor glucocorticoid use. COVID-19 admitted patients with RA had a HR of 1.43 (95% CI 0.80 to 2.53) for a severe outcome.
Conclusion: Patients with IRD were more likely to be admitted with COVID-19 than the general population, and COVID-19 admitted patients with RA could be at higher risk of a severe outcome. Treatment with specific DMARDs did not affect the risk of hospitalisation.”

Incidence and severeness of COVID-19 hospitalisation in patients with inflammatory rheumatic disease: a nationwide cohort study from Denmark – PubMed (nih.gov)

Vaccines wipe out diseases.
Infectious diseases are dangerous.
Moderna for example, is 100% effective at preventing severe cases of COVID, and those are the only ones anyone needs to worry about.

Fran
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 9:31 am

These vaccines have not been tested in autoimmune disease.
https://sebastianrushworth.com/2021/01/10/are-the-covid-vaccines-safe-and-effective/

MAL
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 10:15 am

As always check the ingredient list. I highly doubt we will wipe out COVID-19, I could be wrong and vaccines are the first step but COVID-19 not a dangerous as you think in the end most will figure shutdowns killed more. The only virus that vaccines wipe out in the wild was small pox. And funny we did not need advance tech to do that. Just had get get the world population vaccinated with cowpox. I still have that scar.

Fran
Reply to  ggm
February 28, 2021 9:16 am

There have been no tests in subjects with autoimmune disease; ditto lots of other chronic conditions. This goes into the details of trials for the first 3. If J&J is much different, I’ll eat my hat,
https://sebastianrushworth.com/2021/01/10/are-the-covid-vaccines-safe-and-effective/

Nicholas McGinley
February 27, 2021 11:07 pm

4 million doses.
The other ones say they will have 100 million additional doses by the end of March.
Each.

Nicholas McGinley
February 27, 2021 11:23 pm

I do not have a prissy list of things I will not do to get vaccinated.

I am not afraid my delicate constitution will be wrecked by a few micrograms of a viral antigen.

I would never claim to be really extra durable but also brag about being scared to take something tested and already used in tens of millions of people, many old and frail.

Every day all kinds of foreign material enters my body.
I do not get sick much but know I can, and also know that it is unknowable what will happen if someone gets a disease they never had before.

I do not live in fear but I also do not take stupid risks.
Which is why I will get it, like I get every vaccine I have ever been able to get my hands on.
I have never had any reaction except a hot spot that was a little sore for a day or two.
I have had mosquito bites that bothered me more.

I will get what I can get as soon as I can get it, and will go where I need to go.
Because I want to protect myself and also do my part to end this bullshit.
I am a scientist and understand exactly what viruses are, what diseases can do, and how my body works.
I sure am glad I am the way I am, and not like some other people.
Now more than ever.

If you are not a skeptic, you are not a scientist
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 7:20 am

Since you are a scientist and understand exactly, can you please explain how the mRNA vaccines that make the spike protein and present it on the cell surface, don’t cause your immune system to attack that cell?

And what if there is a dangerous mistake in the translation of the introduced mRNA ? Very unlikely and rare but we are talking about hundreds of millions to billions of doses.

These are very new and very different vaccines. I read there have only been two in trials and both were short term trials. I don’t know of other proven safe mRNA studies, do you?

Seems like we are doing a huge phase 3 trial without telling people.

And can you tell me how vaccination is sure to end all this?

David A
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 1, 2021 10:46 pm

“I am a scientist and understand exactly what viruses are, what diseases can do, and how my body works.”

Possibly the most anti-scientific statement I have read in years.

February 28, 2021 12:14 am

…and so the narrative subtly changes. Now we all need to be vaccinated, not to stop the spread (it doesn’t), not to acquire herd immunity, (the antithesis of vaccination), not to prevent infection (it can’t) but to “…limit the development of new coronavirus variants.”
There is no winning an argument with a Bolshevik, they just keep changing the rules of the game!
We still have to isolate, and thereby prove the existence of, this horrifically horrifying horror coronal virus thingy. “But, but, I got so sick, like never before….” Send me a complete list of everything you’ve been eating, drinking and breathing. Just in sodas alone, the “technology” has changed drastically lately, with manufacturers competing on additives that give the kids the best ‘feel good’. Roundup is now a “harvesting aid” cropping up in all mass produced foods. With GMOs and preservatives and flavourants increasing in quantity every day, and the flu in general being a dietary disorder, I have yet to be convinced covid exists.
Besides, J&J is in bed with Baal Gates and the abortion industry… trust them as far as you can kick them!

Last edited 4 months ago by paranoid goy
David Guy-Johnson
Reply to  paranoid goy
February 28, 2021 12:28 am

All evidence says they do stop the spread. You must get your information from sad sweaty men who fill the Internet with crap from their bedroom in their mum’s house

JEHILL
Reply to  David Guy-Johnson
February 28, 2021 1:43 am

Viruses mutate that’s what they do. Since all viruses mutate than there’s no way to stop the spread. Which from the beginning was one the most g$$&=&$>=n dumbass things I have ever heard. The people who were at risk at the start of will always be at risk. The vaccine will not help some people. Some will not be able to take the vaccine due existing conditions.

very old white guy
Reply to  David Guy-Johnson
February 28, 2021 4:47 am

Herd immunity will stop it. It has been no worse than the seasonal flu and it is not decimating the population of the planet, wake up.

MAL
Reply to  very old white guy
February 28, 2021 10:22 am

Consider the fact prior to antibiotics the death rate for the common flu was 3%. It is worse that the seasonal flue for us over 65 years, for those below it less fatal than the flu. Why our educated idiot thought is wise to look up a population that it would not have much effect on, is beyond me. Also people the only way you beat a virus by vaccine but in any case Farr’s law will not be denied.

Reply to  David Guy-Johnson
February 28, 2021 11:54 pm

Actually, guy with his Johnson hanging out, I quote the manufacturers themselves, no sweaty basement dwellers at all! Every single one of them state explicitly that their vaccines do not prevent infection or spreading infection. All they promise is a fractional probability of “less severe symptoms“. As for herd immunity; that is what you get from being infected and surviving, NOT VACCINES! That was medical dogma until the CDC changed their own website, just the other day. You may justify vaccs for things too dangerous to wait for herd immunity, and for those, the high death toll by itself leads to quick and regionally limited burnout.
Scroll down to where Nicholas McGinnley ejaculates upon facts for some common sense stats…

StevenF
Reply to  paranoid goy
February 28, 2021 2:09 am

You make good points that what you eat has a tremendous impact on the effect of COVID and any virus. It is also true that in the scheme of things, this virus is really not that big a deal. That said, the vaccines do prevent infection and stop the spread. We are also gaining herd immunity.

How politicians spin this is another story and how long the public puts up with it remains to be seen.

whiten
Reply to  StevenF
February 28, 2021 5:29 am

Steven

It is the herd immunity that basically does slowdown-“prevent” and “arrests the spread” of infection-diseases.
the rest like hygiene, health care (system), including vaccination, simply boost the efficiency and the safety on top of it.

But when it comes to seasonal respiratory infection-diseases that is an entirely different ball game…

cheers

StevenF
Reply to  whiten
February 28, 2021 7:48 am

Not sure I understand your comment. Herd immunity is made up of immunity, whether acquired naturally or by vaccination. The other stuff has unrelated benefits to immunity.

As far as seasonal respiratory infections, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of different infectious agents. Luckily most are mild. But that is why the class as a whole is not amendable to vaccination.

MAL
Reply to  StevenF
February 28, 2021 10:46 am

You are right many are just a nuisance to us. Add in, to many of the other mutate to fast for an effective vaccine. Although the new methods of making vaccine may help on those that are in the grey area(COVID is one of those). The lead time on vaccines use to be years now it is months.

whiten
Reply to  MAL
February 28, 2021 9:37 pm

All these many seasonal respiratory infection diseases are
seasonal epidemics.

Natural immunity, from individual to herd immunity, does not attempt to block, slowdown or prevent such seasonal epidemics,
but rather lets it have it’s periodic full course.

That is why it has being that way like forever.
And it can not be changed.

Any idea consisting of practices towards blocking, slowdown or prevention of seasonal respiratory epidemics is stupid and anti natural.

Apart from being an expensive costly fool’s errand,
also in case of some considerable impact, it will lead to a nature’s bounce back against it…
where and when the obstacle ends up removed at some near future point in time,
with the side effect of extra pain, extra severity and extra fatality, which otherwise would not have happened.

cheers

MAL
Reply to  whiten
February 28, 2021 10:30 am

With any virus Farr’s law will not be denied, that also true for any virus. Only fools thing they can change the course of a disease. We can prevent people from dying needlessly but with any virus herd immunity is the only way, that achieved either by infections or vaccine. In this case we may have lucked out with a vaccine!

Yet in the end we may have caused far more needless deaths because of our unwarranted fear of a virus that showed little risk to the bulk of the population. Our present day risk assessment is lacking. Computer models with wildly unknown variables are worthless and in this case, they were destructive.

Lee Scott
Reply to  paranoid goy
February 28, 2021 5:26 am

We need herd immunity because there are millions of anti-science, anti-vaxxers and conspiracy nuts who will refuse to get the vaccine. They will become the potential spreaders of the disease. As long as they constitute a small portion of the population, they will be protected by the herd immunity right along with those who got the vaccine.

And then they can boast that it was all a scam; that they never got the vaccine and never got sick, and look how stupid all the sheeple were who stood in line to get vaccinated.

Simon
Reply to  Lee Scott
February 28, 2021 10:22 am

Good comment. It worries me this got down voted when it is 100% accurate.

David A
Reply to  Simon
March 1, 2021 10:58 pm

It is a 90 percent presumptuous insulting strawman. Many who are not anti vaxers or anti science, who trust their health and known effective treatments if they do contact the Wuflu, realize that the extent of potential problems will not be known for at least a year, and their chances of coming to harm from the Wuflu are incredibly small.

They know that if the vulnerable population was as little threatened by Cov19 as they now are, zero lockdowns would have occurred, and no vaccine would have been developed.

The vaccine makes little sense for 80 percent of the population, especially if they use known effective preventions and treatments.

Last edited 4 months ago by David A
TonyG
Reply to  David A
March 2, 2021 8:06 am

Easier to just label someone and avoid any discussion of the nuances.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  paranoid goy
February 28, 2021 6:25 am

There is a long list of diseases which have vaccines.
An examination of the reduction and in some cases elimination of diseases once a vaccine for the disease became available shows that they are dramatically effective.
The evidence could not be clearer.
There is a long list of diseases that have been completely or very nearly completely eliminated, in the places where the vaccines have been widely employed.
What generally happens is a disease goes from being widespread to being gone.
In the second half of the 1900’s, there was a long list of diseases that were widespread and deadly that were wiped out in the US virtually overnight.
The only reason there are some places that still have these diseases, is because they were not widely used.
A virus can only live inside of a host, and can only spread from an infected person to someone who is not immune.
Vaccines make people immune.
Someone who has a virus like this one has a few days to maybe a week to spread it to someone else.
When an infected person does not spread it to someone, that person becomes a dead end for all of the virus they carry.
When large percentages are immune, either through vaccination or by having been infected and then recovered, it becomes very unlikely the infected person will cross paths with someone they can pass it to.
At this point we have zero known cases of a vaccinated person getting and passing along the virus.

The amazing and rapid ability to wipe out entrenched diseases is why we no longer worry about smallpox, polio, tetanus, diphtheria, pneumococcal disease, meningococcal disease, rabies…and a long list of others.
This one is not yet all that entrenched, in my estimation.
And the evidence for very high effectiveness is reason to think we have every chance of wiping this one out.
But only if people know how beneficial vaccines are and almost everyone gets vaccinated.
Here is a list of some diseases and the numbers of people who used to get them, and the number of people who have gotten them recently:

Vaccines and diseases.PNG
Last edited 4 months ago by Nicholas McGinley
MAL
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 11:02 am

You above statement is full of misinformation here is one. “Vaccines make people immune.” wrong the present vaccine for COVID are only about 90% effective, the flu vaccines about 50% effective. 1 out of ever two is not immune in the case of the flu vaccines. Here is another “At this point we have zero known cases of a vaccinated person getting and passing along the virus.” again the testing of the COVID vaccine only showed 95% effective rate that means some who got vaccinated did get the virus and from my understand did die from the virus, it looks like in the test none died after the Johnson and Johnson vaccine, yet some did get the virus.

Lastly if you are an adult and have not been vaccinated for Polio and you child has been recently you can defiantly get Polio from your vaccinated child. Do you know why this is true? I do, modern Polio vaccine is only a weaken Polio vaccine and it is quite capable of infecting a non immunized person who come in contact to the child feces Do you read anything?

Reply to  MAL
February 28, 2021 3:29 pm

Do you read anything?
Best what he wrote himself, that’s why his comments often are so long 😀

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 11:07 am

Tetanus, f.e. is not wiped out.
Diphtheria is not wiped out, look at Latvia, they have a probleme since 2 decades.

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 1, 2021 12:07 am

Blah blah. Herewith some very nice statistics sources from government data in various countries showing that infectuous fatalities diminish with the general standard of living, and precede/lag vaccination programmes by years.
http://vaxinfostarthere.com/did-vaccines-save-us/
I also give you a link showing evidence that vaccinations statistically correlate with higher levels of general sickliness in the target population.
https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/17/22/8674
Not even your heros in the covidiot pharmafia gangs promise immunity, the best they do is “less severe symptoms”. And even then not for 100% of patients, and no legal recourse if they damage you!
Blah blah, I say unto you sir!

Fran
Reply to  paranoid goy
February 28, 2021 9:34 am

Of course if you limit spread of a virus, you put pressure on for evolution of more infectious strains.

Gene Selkov
February 28, 2021 12:34 am

Real vaccines for an imaginary virus? Are people really that stupid?

StevenF
Reply to  Gene Selkov
February 28, 2021 2:11 am

Why do you say an imaginary virus? It can be argued as to how bad this virus really is (I don’t think it is that particularly bad) but it does exist and it does make people sick. Whether the death numbers are accurate or not, there are people who have died from it. But people die from diseases all the time. Unfortunately it is a condition of life.

Tony
Reply to  StevenF
February 28, 2021 5:31 am

The virus was deliberately released.But when they noticed it didn’t kill as many as they wanted,and close to 99% have no problems with the virus.They started to blame almost any physical discomfort and deads on corona.The numbers are hugely inflated in favor of corona.There are places where the elderly and younger people have been vaccinated by force,and even kept against their will.I will not support this kind of practice.Nor will i ever accept this is as deadly as they are telling us.

Farmer Ch E retired
Reply to  StevenF
February 28, 2021 8:09 am

The virus is likely bad but it’s hard to find evidence in the macro data.

Slide1.JPG
Farmer Ch E retired
Reply to  Farmer Ch E retired
February 28, 2021 8:13 am

Change in USA death rate since 2010:

Slide2.JPG
Reply to  Gene Selkov
March 1, 2021 12:10 am

The worst part about the low average intelligence? Half of us are even stupider than that!

Jim Edwards
February 28, 2021 1:04 am

I am from Australia and I find we having trouble getting any real questions answered or asked. The tone is just get your vaccination. It is our only way out. No one including our media is willing to ask any questions and if you do your are labelled a anti vaccer. Questions like

Are their potential long term effects. I say potential as I understand that known long term risks are unknown, however they must know or be able to have educated guesses how a particular vaccine could react with people. Me as a lay person has no idea of reactions.

How do they believe the vaccines will prevent transmission. I understand a lot of data has not been able to be obtained concerning this but again they must be able to theorise it effect on reducing transmission. If there are little long term side effects then it is more appealing to younger healthy people getting a vaccine if it will prevent our vulnerable people from getting the vaccine.

For me if a vulnerable person (Elderly or underlying condition) has their doctor telling them to get a vaccine then it is a no brainer. These people stand to gain alot from a vaccine.

However the younger and healthier the person the less reason to have one, there are unknown risks vs very minor risk of these people suffering from COVID19. Especially when more and more evidence of treatments are coming to the table. However for some reason we are not discussing this.

If the medical reasons are overwhelming in favour of everyone getting a vaccine why are they not presented. Some people are happy with a Government official saying get the jab. Others like me want to be provided more information so I can make a decision for myself and my children.

Steve Richards
Reply to  Jim Edwards
February 28, 2021 1:48 am

Jim, the reduction in transmission comes from a vaccinated person minimising and quickly reducing their internal viral load.
We will all catch covid eventually, it’s an infectious disease. If you are vaccinated, then when you are exposed to covid, your bodies immune system fights it and removes it. This means you carry the virus for a much shorter time. During this time you are less infectious meaning a much lower transmission.
In the UK we now have around 20 million with their first jabs. We are collecting, collating and analysing all the time.
The news today, Sunday 28th, is that a single jab is giving 90% protection.
So a much reduced impact when infected, much reduced hospitalization, much reduced death rates.
Yes, some will still die, as the variety of humans, each with unique sets of additional conditions, it is not surprising. But with improved treatments and a much reduced admissions, medics can concentrate on the few who need help, not 10 times the numbers.
I had my first jab a few weeks ago. It went well. I look forward to my 2nd jab in 2 months time.
With the EU leaders talking down uk vaccines eating humble pie, it demonstrates that loose words cause deaths.
Macron the stupid french leader said the uk vaccine was no good and would not take it if offered. The result is that vaccine uptake in france and germany is now pitifully low.
Macron has now said he will take miw he has seen the latest stats. But too late, his country folk are refusing it still.
Poor words cost lives.

Honest Lee
Reply to  Steve Richards
February 28, 2021 3:45 am

Only ignorant fools would “trust the science” of an negligently rushed first-time ever RNA altering vaccine for a disease that has a 99.7 survival rate.
Do you know that vaccines take four to 8 years to develop, conduct animal testing, and go through three phases of comprehensive long-term safety testing?
These Covid-1984 vaccines have been rush developed without any animal studies and long term safety testing.
Do you know that these vaccines don’t have FDA approval for market and they are authorized for emergency use only?
Just wait until the next severe strain of SARS-COV-2 hits and causes mass casualties in the vaccinated population via ADE Antibody Dependent Enhancement cytokine storm adverse immune (fatal) reactions that ALWAYS occurred with similar vaccines in animal studies.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7550622/
Potential Challenges for Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) Vaccines Under Trial

Simon
Reply to  Honest Lee
February 28, 2021 10:30 am

This comment is full of untruths, but worse than that, it is dangerous. No better example than this…
Just wait until the next severe strain of SARS-COV-2 hits and causes mass casualties in the vaccinated population”
You have 0 proof this will happen and yet you write it. Why?

Derg
Reply to  Simon
February 28, 2021 11:15 am

Is Trump Russia colluuuusion an untruth?

Notanacademic
Reply to  Simon
February 28, 2021 11:43 am

Can you provide the proof it won’t happen?

Tom Foley
Reply to  Jim Edwards
February 28, 2021 2:17 am

How do they believe the vaccines will prevent transmission?

It is simple mathematics. A person, say a guard at a quarantine hospital, picks up the Covid virus from someone already infected, say a newly arrived traveller. The guard goes to the pub, shopping, then home, and infects two people along the way. Those two people each infect two more people; those four people infect two each, those eight infect two each, those 16 infect two each. After ten cycles, 1024 people can be infected. But it’s exponential, after another ten cycles, over one million people can be infected, just by each infected person infecting two more at each step. This is the logic behind the fast, hard lockdowns that have been used in Australia, to stop contact between people early, in case they have been infected, and so break the transmission chain early.

But if some people are vaccinated, maybe at each step only one person is vulnerable – that means that after ten steps only 11 people all up would be infected. The virus can’t spread far if enough people are resistant to it. If no-one around the infected person is vulnerable, then the virus is stopped in its tracks. Distancing rules, masks, limited numbers at events are all aimed at breaking the transmission chain, but since many people refuse to go along with these, a vaccine is better.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Tom Foley
February 28, 2021 6:33 am

By your math, we all should have had COVID-19 sometime in mid-2020.

StevenF
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
February 28, 2021 7:54 am

Absolutely if life were perfectly mathematical. It’s more chaotic so the numbers are varied. Plus we aren’t air molecules randomly bumping into other people. We tend to live and work within social circles, meaning that the virus spreads by fits and starts.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Jim Edwards
February 28, 2021 4:32 am

consider this;
F I GET VACCINATED…
●”If I get vaccinated can I stop wearing a mask(s)?”
Government: “NO”
●”If I get vaccinated will the restaurants, bars, schools, fitness clubs, hair salons, etc. reopen, and will people be able to get back to work like normal?
Government: “NO”
●”If I get vaccinated will I be resistant to Covid?”
Government: “Maybe. We don’t know exactly, but probably not.”
●”If I get vaccinated, at least I won’t be contagious to others – right?”
Government: “NO. the vaccine doesn’t stop transmission.”
●”If I get vaccinated, how long will the vaccine last?”
Government: “No one knows. All Covid “vaccines” are still in the experimental stage.”
● “If I get vaccinated, can I stop social distancing?”
Government: “NO”
● “If my parents, grandparents and myself all get vaccinated can we hug each other again?”
Government: “NO”
● “So what’s the benefit of getting vaccinated?”
Government: “Hoping that the virus won’t kill you.”
●”Are you sure the vaccine won’t injure or kill me?”
Government: “NO”
●”If statistically the virus won’t kill me (99.7% survival rate), why should I get vaccinated?”
Government: “To protect others.”
●”So if I get vaccinated, I can protect 100% of people I come in contact with?”
Government: “NO”
● “If I experience a severe adverse reaction, long-term effects (still unknown), or die from the vaccine will I (or my family) be compensated from the vaccine manufacture or the Government?”
Government: “NO – the government and vaccine manufactures have 100% zero liability regarding this experimental drug”
So to summarise, the Covid19 “vaccine”…
Does not provide immunity
Does not eliminate the virus
Does not prevent death
Does not guarantee you won’t get it
Does not stop you from passing it on to others
Does not eliminate the need for travel bans
Does not eliminate the need for business closures
Does not eliminate the need for lockdowns
Does not eliminate the need for masking
I am not anti-vaccine. I am pro-choice.
Want the vaccine? Help yourself.
Just don’t tell me your choice must also be my choice.”

http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2021/02/20/february-20-2021-reader-tips/#comment-1412811

Paul C
Reply to  Jim Edwards
February 28, 2021 6:03 am

It seems that Bells Palsy (one sided paralysis) is one of the reported after-effects of some people who have been vaccinated. Also, a few people have died after having the vaccine.
The rules have changed now with what I’ll call the “28 days later conundrum”.
If you test positive for SARS-CoV-2, and survive any ill effects, but do not survive a road accident a couple of weeks later, your death is recorded as a COVID death. However, if you are vaccinated, and struck down a day or two later with an unexplained illness, this is apparently unrelated to the vaccine. If you do not survive this unexplained illness, but a post-mortem test detects the virus, then again it was a COVID death.
This appears to happen in both the UK and USA, but may, or may not be more widespread.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Paul C
February 28, 2021 7:55 am

Every year about one out of every hundred people die.
10,000 out of every million.
If millions of people are getting vaccinated, a large number of vaccinated people will die soon after being vaccinated.
In the US, most of the vaccines have gone to the very old and very sick.
Of course people die after being vaccinated.
Vaccines to not confer immortality.
They will not even prevent covid until after a couple of weeks.

StevenF
Reply to  Paul C
February 28, 2021 8:00 am

Each of those cases of people dying after getting the vaccine have been carefully looked. I can’t say that every case has because nothing in life is perfect. There has been no cause directly related to the vaccine.

I’ll give you an example. There were a number of deaths in Sweden post vaccination. Quite a few in fact. They happened in nursing homes after mass vaccination. The reality was that the number of deaths that occur each week in nursing homes in Sweden is fairly large and if you mass vaccinate, you are going to vaccinate people who were going to die in a few days anyway. Each of the cases were closely scrutinized and it was determined that they died of a preexisting condition. There was some discussion that the vaccine may have caused an immune response that tipped them over the edge, but that was as far as it appeared. The flip side is that many more would probably die if they got the actual illness.

Abolition Man
Reply to  StevenF
February 28, 2021 9:03 am

StevenF,
The question that neither you or Nicholas seem to want to answer is why it is so important for everyone to take the vaccine when there are already effective treatments available! Are you trying to tell me that everyone MUST be injected in order stop the spread, because that’s a load of hooey!
The numerous studies from around the world of transmission in children show that there is almost no chance of being infected from a child and they have virtually a zero percent fatality rate! Why should American schools be closed when school around the world are open little or no propblems? The only reason that I can find is the control that teacher’s unions have over the politicians in most liberal cities!
I could probably come up with a lot of recommendations for anyone if I had an opportunity to examine their life in detail; I just don’t think that sticking my nose into other people’s business is appropriate! I guess it’s a Libertarian thing that you may not agree with!

Simon
Reply to  Abolition Man
February 28, 2021 10:36 am

The question that neither you or Nicholas seem to want to answer is why it is so important for everyone to take the vaccine when there are already effective treatments available!”
Because the vaccine is far more effective than any drug or treatment to date…. end of story.

MarkG
Reply to  Simon
February 28, 2021 7:46 pm

For a disease which the average person has about a 99.9% chance of surviving.

It’s irrelevant how effective the vaccine may or may not be when it primarily kills sick people who have already passed the average lifespan.

Simon
Reply to  Abolition Man
February 28, 2021 10:37 am

Why should American schools be closed when school around the world are open little or no propblems? The only reason that I can find is the control that teacher’s unions have over the politicians in most liberal cities!”
OK that is just the talk of a crazy person.

Abolition Man
Reply to  Simon
February 28, 2021 1:49 pm

Have you looked at ANY of the studies of school age children from around the world? There are studies from Iceland, Ireland, Norway, I believe and several others that ALL had similar findings. There was virtually no risk of spread from children to adults and the kids had basically a 0% chance serious illness or death!
Apparently your ignorance about this virus is only exceeded by that of US politics!

Reply to  StevenF
February 28, 2021 9:52 am

As an “elderly” individual, your callousness shines through. Several Norwegian elderly, vaccinated now dead (VND) would be aghast at you.

MarkG
Reply to  Walter Keane
February 28, 2021 7:47 pm

‘We had to kill Granny in order to save her.’

Peta of Newark
February 28, 2021 1:30 am

Johnson-Johnson
haha – it’ll have asbestos in it ;-D

Tru Fax!!!
Trump Derangement Syndrome says it has

AND, because only one dose and has easy storage it will have to be bad-mouthed by peddlers of 2-dose vaccines.
Like France/Germany bad-mouthed Astra-Zeneca vaccine. AZ being a UK/Swedish, Eurosceptic, enterprise.

‘Tis the politics of the school playground:
If someone has something/anything good, nice or is enjoying themselves somehow and I (me me me me & not forgetting me) cannot have it, I will do everything & anything to trash it for everyone else

Last edited 4 months ago by Peta of Newark
gringojay
February 28, 2021 2:25 am

There were primates given an anti-Sars covid spike vaccine (not an mRNA anti-spike vaccine as I understand it) that had some peculiar findings. In essence the desirable M1 macrophages were activated by that vaccine.

However, the follow on M2 macrophages that heal inflammatory wounding were apparently suppressed after getting that anti-spike vaccine. Due to the lack of M2 macrophage activity there were clinically infected subjects which suffered acute diffuse alveolar damage since were lacking M2 macrophages which normally come along to heal.

Presumably new mRNA anti-Sars covid spike vaccines will/do not similarly impact M2 macrophage levels in any person. For individuals mRNA anti-spike vaccinated who suffer life threatening reactions I would be interested to learn if some loss of this desirable immune response occurs in any cases.

Citation (2019) = “Anti-spike IgG causes severe acute lung injury by skewing macrophage response during acute SARS-CoV infection”; free full text available on-line, originally published in Journal Clinical Investigation.

Under The Bridge
February 28, 2021 2:41 am

“To create this vaccine, the Johnson & Johnson team took a harmless adenovirus – the viral vector – and replaced a small piece of its genetic instructions with coronavirus genes for the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.”

I always look for subtle language like “harmless”. This helps me make fully informed choices. Like “a small piece of its genetic instructions”: a small piece of genetic instruction can’t harm me like a big piece of genetic instruction can!

“The adenovirus vector vaccine is safe because the adenovirus can’t replicate in human cells or cause disease”

See? The only possible danger that could have come with this vaccine is if the “harmless adenovirus” could have replicated within our cells to become a harmful adenovirus. That would be like Clark Kent entering a phone booth and becoming Superman. Since it can’t do that, it’s safe.

One of the things that scares me about the mRNA vaccines is that there has never been one approved for public use before. That’s also true of adenovirus vaccines (at least in the US), whether they’re the perfectly safe old fashioned type of vaccines, or this new, even more perfectly safe viral vector vaccine, but I’m very afraid of a vaccine that messes with my RNA like the Pfizer ones. Those are scary! With this new vaccine, instead of using mRNA to make our cells create spike proteins, this one will use an adenovirus with DNA that has been coded to make our cells make mRNA that makes our cells create spike proteins AFTER it’s already in our cells. It’s like a trojan horse vaccine; that’s so cool! Don’t ask me why that’s safer; it’s science!

Besides, what do old-style safety concepts have to do with this when SARS-COV-2 doesn’t follow old-style safety rules? It’s like when you eat out: you have to wear a mask during the very brief time when you walk by people because that’s when you’re most likely to inundate them with an overwhelming viral load, but this transmissibility stops completely when you enter a sitting position and maintain it for an hour or so. Well, as long as other people are six feet away from you. Science has shown that virus particles fall to the floor within six feet. I think they run out of breath or something.

Fun Fact: the same company that poisoned American soldiers with the anthrax vaccine will be manufacturing this safe-as-breakfast-cereal coronavirus vaccine.

Fun Fact 2: The FDA won’t inspect the facility that makes this vaccine, just as they won’t inspect any facility that produces COVID vaccines. Whenever we get into a threatening situation, it’s always best to close our eyes to make the danger go away, right? Which brings me to the obvious solution to all of this trouble: why don’t we just close our eyes to make all of this go away? Maybe we should be masking our eyes instead of our mouths?

I can’t wait to get my harmless viral vector shot. I have to admit that it still scares the crap out of me, but one thing that’s far worse than taking part in an unprecedented experimental medical intervention is someone calling me a name like “anti-vaxxer” or something terrible like that. Just like the rest of this rule-breaking phenomenon, it totally breaks the “sticks and stones” rule: that name will DEFINITELY hurt me! Far better to run with the crowd with this one folks!

Last edited 4 months ago by Under The Bridge
mwhite
Reply to  Under The Bridge
February 28, 2021 3:28 am

Life will find a way

Vuk
Reply to  Under The Bridge
February 28, 2021 4:27 am

I had only two minor side effects from ingredients in the Pfizer vaccine, gorilla grunts WHO, WHO,WHO… and growing a pig’s tail.

Gunga Din
Reply to  Vuk
February 28, 2021 6:45 am

Made me think of that Star Trek the Next Generation episode where Barley is given a hypo for some kind of flu then the entire crew begins to “devolve”.
(Councilor Troi was well on her way to becoming a salamander.)

PS My age group here in Central Ohio became eligible about 3 weeks ago. But I’d just gotten my second shingles so had to wait 2 weeks to make an appointment for the first Covid shot. Now, the last time I checked, no one has an opening within 20 miles. And it is available in pharmacies here.

DonM
Reply to  Vuk
March 2, 2021 10:38 am

Those of us that already have a pig tail have questions/concerns …

Are we better protected because of the existing tail, or may we be subject to other grievous mutations at our tail or elsewhere?

John Tillman
Reply to  Under The Bridge
February 28, 2021 11:53 am

Vector vaccines carry DNA coding for the antigenic protein, which the cell’s own mRNA then translates to be made into protein in its ribosomes.. The spike protein, which helps the CoV break into lung cells, then engenders antibodies.

Last edited 4 months ago by John Tillman
huls
February 28, 2021 3:45 am

So more gene therapy. This is not a vaccin because it does not contain weakened or dead pathogen which is the whole point of a vaccin. Stop calling it vaccin when it so clearly is not.
This will trigger autoimmune disease in otherwise healthy people with a number of those dying from the effects of the autoimmune disease.
For the life of me I cannot figure out why the sheeple do not see through this plandemic. It is such an obvious scam

Simon
Reply to  huls
February 28, 2021 10:40 am

This will trigger autoimmune disease in otherwise healthy people with a number of those dying from the effects of the autoimmune disease.”
Proof please or STFU. You are a dangerous misinformer.

John Tillman
Reply to  huls
February 28, 2021 1:15 pm

Yes, it’s a vaccine, as the term has long been understood, ie “a biological preparation that provides active aquired immunity to a particular infectious disease”.

Originally, in the late 18th and for much of the 19th century, “vaccination” by cowpox (Edward Jenner, 1796) against smallpox contrasted with “variolation” by the variola virus itself. Both were inoculations. After 1889, “immunization” entered the language.

Louis Pasteur broadened the meaning in the late 19th century. To honor Jenner, he called his inoculations against chicken cholera, anthrax and, in 1882, rabies “vaccines”, even though they used weakened forms of the pathogen, as in variolation.

During the 20th century, both “k!lled” or inactivated and “live” but attenuated or weakened virus preparations were considered vaccines, as with the competing polio immunization agents. Most biologists don’t consider viruses actually to be alive. Rather they are “replicants” rather than cellular organisms.

When vector vaccines were invented in 1972, the term was naturally applied to them as well. And now in the 21st century, mRNA immunization is considered to be vaccination.

Last edited 4 months ago by John Tillman
Lurker Pete
February 28, 2021 4:09 am

Has any of the trial data been published yet? Or is this still ‘science’ by press release?

What has been relased rearding the two mRNA vaccines does not look like solid science:

“politicians, and public health officials have blared the 95% efficacy
for both formulations. To the casual observer, this would denote 95%
reduction in hospitalizations or deaths. When in fact the 95% is
calculated, based upon the “Primary Efficacy Endpoints.”

In the trial literature these endpoints are described by both
companies as non-severe cold/flu SYMPTOMS coupled with a positive PCR.

Pfizer has reported:

Moderna reported in likeness:

To reiterate, in both trials, once one/two symptoms appeared in a
participant, it was designated a “case” or “event” when coupled with a
positive PCR “test”. Once 170 “cases” occurred in Pfizer/BioNtech trial,
and 196 “cases” occurred in Moderna trial, this data was used to
calculate efficacy. Shockingly, only under 200 cases for a novel therapy
which is being deployed/subjected on millions of people around the
world.

Furthermore, people are not being informed that “95%” or so efficacy,
is calculated based on a useless metric of relative efficacy and is
therefore very misleading.

Eg.Pfizer/BioNtech:

8 “cases” in vaccine group
162 “cases” in placebo group

8/162 = 5%
100%-5%= 95%

Therefore, they are claiming that the synthetic gene therapy
injections are 95% efficacious. What they are not factoring in is the
size of the denominator. If it is large, then with 8 vs 162, the
difference becomes less significant. It matters how many people were in
each group, for example, whether this be 200, 2,000, or 20,000.

This is the absolute risk reduction for Pfizer/BioNtech, each group had over 18,000 people!

Injection Group: 8/18,198 = 0.04%
Placebo Group: 162/18,325= 0.88%

Therefore, the absolute risk reduction for Primary Efficacy Endpoint is 0.84%. (ie. 0.88-0.04)

This means, that someone who takes the Pfizer/BioNtech injection, has
less than 1% chance of reducing at least one symptom of non-severe
“Covid” for a period of 2 months. This means that someone who takes this
injection has over 99% chance that it won’t work, regarding the
efficacy. Over 100 people have to be injected for it to “work” in one
person.”

Source: https://off-guardian.org/2021/02/22/synthetic-mrna-covid-vaccines-a-risk-benefit-analysis/

The decline in the number of “cases” doesn;t appear to have anything to do with the vaccine rollout, or the lockdowns, since the start of the decline does not correlate with either:

” the global decline in “Covid deaths” starts in mid-to-late January.

What else happened around that time?

Well, on January 13th the WHO published a memo regarding the problem of asymptomatic cases being discovered by PCR tests, and suggesting any asymptomatic positive tests be repeated.

This followed up their previous memo, instructing labs around the world to use lower cycle thresholds (CT values) for PCR tests, as values over 35 could produce false positives.

Essentially, in two memos the WHO ensured future testing would be
less likely to produce false positives and made it much harder to be
labelled an “asymptomatic case”.

In short, logic would suggest we’re not in fact seeing a “decline in Covid cases” or a “decrease in Covid deaths” at all.

What we’re seeing is a decline in perfectly healthy people being
labelled “covid cases” based on a false positive from an unreliable
testing process. And we’re seeing fewer people dying of pneumonia,
cancer or other disease have “Covid19” added to their death certificate
based on testing criteria designed to inflate the pandemic.”

Source: https://off-guardian.org/2021/02/26/coronavirus-fact-check-10-why-new-cases-are-plummeting/

Vuk
February 28, 2021 4:14 am

During a prolong low solar activity the UV radiation is greatly reduced allowing virus to proliferate by surviving longer in the open causing pandemics.
That takes me neatly to this solar minimum.
Three months ago it appeared that this minimum was well and truly over, but not so, the February count is back where it started about two years ago.
 http://www.vukcevic.co.uk/SSN-3-minima.htm
Panspermia is set of hypothesis of virus having extra-terrestrial, i.e space origins, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia
In 1909 there was Tunguska and in 2013 Chelyabinsk meteorites, just few years later followed world wide Spanish and Chinese pandemics (both at the times of the solar GM). If so, it doesn’t put the Chinese in clear for the number of well known reasons. 

ozspeaksup
February 28, 2021 4:23 am

when i first read this elsewhere I though it sounded wrong
[After this modified adenovirus is injected into someone’s arm, it enters the person’s cells. The cells then read the genetic instructions needed to make the spike protein and the vaccinated cells make and present the spike protein on their own surface. The person’s immune system then notices these foreign proteins and makes antibodies against them that will protect the person if they are ever exposed to SARS-CoV-2 in the future}

the vax shouldnt enter your cells surely?
it should be “seen by the bodies defence cells” but our bodies shouldnt be MAKING the foreign cells
(they should see and make defences)
if it could and did whats stopping it from keeping doing so?
if it does do that, then our immune system would be likely to go into overdrive and we get cytokine storms etc
as someone whos stuck so far with 20yrs of pain FROM an overactive immune response by my own system to Bartonella Hensellae from a cat, its NOT a pleasant option!

huls
Reply to  ozspeaksup
February 28, 2021 5:04 am

You got it right. These gene therapies, which are not vaccines literally cause auto-immune disease. Can be quite deadly. Dumbest idea ever. Unless there is an agenda.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  ozspeaksup
February 28, 2021 7:02 am

No one has gotten cytokine storm from any of these vaccines.
The adenovirus can penetrate the cell wall, but it cannot reproduce.
No foreign cells are made.
What happens is, the viral antigen is presented on the outside surface of any cells that the vaccine adenovirus enters.
The immune system sees these antigens, in this case a protein that is the same as the one from the spike the covid virus uses.
The immune system then makes all of the sorts of defenses it makes when someone gets the virus.
IOW, out bodies do what it would do if we got a covid infection, and it does it without anyone getting covid virus itself.
One of the defenses the body makes and carries out involves targeting any cells that have the vaccine protein displayed on the surface, and then killing and digesting them. The cells that do this then help our immune system make even more protective substances and cells.
Antibodies, memory cells, cells that engulf and destroy any infected cells, and various proteins that comprise what is called “humoral immunity”.
We have all of these in our body for any virus or invading organism or substance we have ever had inside of us.
So, once a week or two has gone by, our body is primed and ready to mount an immediate and overwhelming attack on any covid virus particles, or covid spike protein, or covid infected cells. So if we cross paths with an infected person and ingest the virus, it will be rapidly eliminated.
Our immune system is very specific in what it attacks.
We already have had this adenovirus in our body and have immunity to it.
We have not had covid proteins in our body, unless we have had the virus infecting us already. Or we have been vaccinated.
Every day, no matter where we are or what we do, many foreign substances and microorganisms enter our body.
And our immune system does the same procedure as it does against the vaccine antigens for every one of them, every time.
The only relevant question is, if and when covid gets into your body, has your immune system already seen the spike protein, or has it not?
If it has, you have a very low chance of getting sick, and if you do it will be brief and mild.
If it has not seen it before, like if you are not vaccinated, then what happens is a pure crapshoot.
You might get sick, you might not, you might be asymptomatic, you may pass it to other people, friends or family or strangers, and you may get a severe case, or maybe a mild case, and you may get viral pneumonia, and you may die, or maybe not.
Depending on your age and health and other poorly understood factors, you may have a tiny chance of getting very sick and/or dying, or you might have a substantial risk of getting very sick and dying.
If you get viral pneumonia, you will probably recover, but may have damage that is lifelong, or maybe damage your body heals completely over a few months to a few years.
If you get the vaccine, there is a greatly reduced risk of anything much happening if you become infected. The Moderna one in particular has been shown in a very large clinical trial to prevent severe illness in 100% of people who took it.
If everyone gets the vaccine, within a short time of that happening, it is very likely we will be rid of this for good.
Considering a lot of people in government and various organizations are using this illness to screw up our lives, I for one hope we get rid of it.
If large number of people refuse to get vaccinated, we can be sure this pandemic and all that goes along with it will be part of our lives for a long time to come, maybe forever.
There are a lot of people that do not care about us that want to use the pandemic for their own political or financial benefit.
We should not let them.

Last edited 4 months ago by Nicholas McGinley
very old white guy
February 28, 2021 4:42 am

Let’s see, 64 to 82 % effective depending where you are. The recovery rate is 99.8%. I will go with my own immune system.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  very old white guy
February 28, 2021 7:59 am

It is not 99.8% for very old white guys.
But I agree that the J&J numbers do not sound very impressive, compared to the other two.

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 28, 2021 11:10 am

But the actual tests include the so called mutants.

Chad W Jessup
Reply to  very old white guy
February 28, 2021 1:49 pm

I was born in the 1st half of the last century. As Italian stats show, @98% of those of our age who passed away from this virus were afflicted with an average of 2.6 comorbidities. I have none of those issues and possess an excellent immune system, so it is safe to assume those of us in this category have a survival rate of 99.999999xxxx%.

It seems people have forgotten what it is like to come down with the flu. Decades ago when it bit me, I was done for most of a week. Big deal. I know of quite a few fellow elderly folks whose covid symptoms were non-existent, minor, or mild. So why take a vaccine that is guaranteed to make one sick?

Twice now I have been in close hourly contact with a covid positive person, and I did not test positive for the virus after those exposures. Like you, I will trust my immune system.

pochas94
February 28, 2021 4:44 am

I think a good citizen takes the vaccine, even if he thinks he’s already immune. But I am against anybody being <i>forced</i> to take it, so you hand wringers are welcome to stay home and eventually contribute to herd immunity anyway.

Abolition Man
Reply to  pochas94
February 28, 2021 5:50 am

Congratulations, comrade!
You have successfully completed the indoctrination program designed to identify obedient subjects! Your reward will be a bright, red star that can be worn on your face mask until we decide to let you stop wearing them; then you can transfer it to the front of your Mao cap! You DO wear a Mao cap, don’t you?

rah
February 28, 2021 5:07 am

Like I said. I’ll wait for the J&J version which is based on the tried and true methods used to produce many other vaccines in the past. Those of you that don’t want to wait and will get the Moderna or Pfizer versions, have at it. This is a personal health decision, unlike the masks and shutdowns that have been forced upon us. I am now quite resistant to being pressured to run with the herd based on the events of the last year and will rely upon my own judgment based on my own research into the issue and feel no need to justify my decision to ANYONE!

StevenF