US Election Open Thread

People want to vent so here’s a space. Please do not veer into threats or other potential violations of our terms of service.

Most of our readers realize that today’s media pronouncements are meaningless and we are in for a month or more of lawfare.

Stay calm, breathe, and have faith.

538 thoughts on “US Election Open Thread

  1. My question is does Biden take the presidency while Trump appeals? If he does and its found out fraud was committed will he be kicked out and who implements this?

      • Simple recounts of all mail in ballots in the Philadelphia and Atlanta areas would settle that easily.

          • And if they are shown to be correct, why, that just shows how deep the fraud goes.

            Doesn’t matter now that even Murdoch and Fox – that hotbed of Marxist Biden stooges – have abandoned him.

          • And if they are shown to be correct, why, that just shows how deep the fraud goes.

            Actually that’s more on par with the ilks of thee, of whom many even now still believe Trump was a Russian agent, and this AFTER their own kind spent $40M to try to prove it and couldn’t.

            Think of all the poor that could’ve been comforted had the hatred of progressives not bound their minds into a lie?

        • Not easily. Not with the reports we’ve been seeing on veritas of late arriving votes being postmarked early.

          • Postmarks are not secure… easily altered or faked (with a $20 rubber postmark stamp from eBay).

            Postmarks should be legal proof of nothing until extensive forensics is applied to each stamp.

          • Late arriving votes being postmarked early? Well, they are more likely to be genuine than early arriving votes being postmarked later.

            Any greater than usual delay between postmark date and delivery date is likely to be due to the increase in amount of mail due to the election, combined with the cutbacks in the postal service.

            Is it realistic to imagine a concerted effort to fake postmarks? To do enough to make an impact would need factory line production and the skills to falsify the postmark so well that it was not obvious. Or, to post a huge number of fake voting papers on, say 4 November, with faked earlier postmarks. The catch is those envelopes probably would not have arrived yet!

            Claiming that there would be enough falsified postmarks etc to have an impact seems like clutching at straws.

          • Apparently at least one whistleblower in the Post Office admitted that they did this. The rot runs deep when the Post Office is in on your scam…

        • In Philly they threw away the mail in envelopes. Now there is no way to tie together a ballot with a person. Trump got trumped. Pinnacle game over.

          • Then those ballots should be thrown out in a recount. But of course a judge somewhere will over rule that.

          • Actually the fact that they denied poll watchers access, beyond being illegal, creates an argument for spoilaition of evidence. Basically we don’t have any proof but the only reason they would deny access is to create fraudulent ballots. It’s a solid legal argument with significant precedent in both civil and criminal cases. Thus the lack of “evidence” isn’t a show stopper because of the refusal to allow GOP poll watchers to do their job.

          • Trump can force the election to go to Congress, and the Republican-run states can either vote for him or wreck whatever remains of the Republican party.

            Or he can invoke the 14th Amendment, under which Biden is probably ineligible to be President.

            He has plenty of ways to win.

          • Throw away the envelopes, that’s the key. It is so easy to make up ballots and envelopes and get them in, using feedback from voters lists.(your poll person keeps a tally of voters, then you know the names of who is missing, inc. dead people who didn’t vote!)

            Once the envelopes, and thus the names of the voter, are discarded, you are scot free. No evidence trail.

          • ‘Once the gun, and thus your fingerprints, are discarded, you are scot free.’

            I’d bet a lot of people in jail thought like that.

            The simple answer, as someone else said, is that any votes that can’t be proven to be valid are tossed out. It’s little different to tossing out a vote where you can’t tell which candidate they voted for.

          • MarkG
            How do you figure that the 14th amendment is relevant?

            Maybe you mean Section 3:

            “No person shall … hold any office, …who, having previously taken an oath… to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have … given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.” (Heavily redacted for clarity, but I trust not changing the meaning).

            That would require proof that Biden gave aid and comfort to enemies of the Constitution.

            I’m not sure that’s quite the same thing as accepting bribes from an unfriendly government (China, Russia).

            Or you could say that encouraging Antifa to riot constitutes insurrection and is giving aid and comfort to enemies of the Constitution, but what constitutes “aid and comfort”? It would seem that it can’t be words alone for the 1st amendment to still apply.

          • EdB,

            Not “scot free.” The LACK of the paper trail (evidence) is actionable. (See also Mr. Brewer’s comment re: spoliation of evidence- you do that, you lose).

            Mail in ballots must be done per the law, otherwise, they are void.

            Just as ballots are void for failure to sign, the failure to allow legally required observation voids all those ballots in Detroit and in Philadelphia and elsewhere where observers were prevented from meaningful observation.

          • I don’t think it’s too hard to claim that Biden has “given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof” with the numerous revelations about his deals to sell out the US for $$$$. It’s just a question of whether there’s enough to stand up in court.

            That’s assuming he’s still alive, of course. Because he seems remarkably absent for a President-to-be.

          • Doesnt matter about Pennsylvania, Trump needs it to win while Biden doesnt.
            Trump needs all of 5 ‘closest’ states to reach the 270 level, Biden doesnt

          • As far as I know there is no democratic country where a ballot could be tied together with a person.
            This is democracy.

            Ohterwise you could call it Belear US.

          • What is the theory here? All democratic ballots are fraudulent, but no republican ballots are? All the evil and conniving is on one side? Come on!

          • For Trebla and any others needing more facts:

            1. Read this entire thread (e.g., the video I posted in my comment would help you).

            2. Also see, this thread: — many relevant, insightful, well-informed, comments there, e.g., those of Pat Frank)

            3. See the following comment on this thread, for a list of some of the evidence supporting the “theory” that the Dem crime machine fixed the election:


            … there are several Milwaukee [,Wisconsin] precincts with voter turnout over 100%

            *** The big voting dumps in Michigan and Wisconsin happened around 4[AM ] after they had announced they were stopping for the night and Republican poll watchers [left]

            – the big voting dumps for Biden defy belief probabilistically. ***

            – all the IT ‘glitches’ favoured Biden. Again, from a probability standpoint, this is really unlikely ***

            – some analytical tools [ ] (Benford’s Law) suggest anomalous voting … .

            Kent Clizbe,

            4. Read this EXCELLENT article posted on this thread by Mario Lento very early this morning.

          • Obama’s own life history was that he was foreign born – not from Hawaii. There was a lot of evidence Obama is fake persona yet nothing happened and not even Breitbart wanted to touch any of that, even less phony Fox News.

          • JohnM:

            “Mr. Donahoe said that unlike the National Security Agency’s collection of phone logs and overseas Web traffic that has come under scrutiny, the Postal Service does not maintain a massive database of the letter images. The scanning machines at the mail processing centers only keeps images of the letters they scan.

            ‘It’s done by machine, so there’s no central area where any of this information would be,’ he said. ‘It’s extremely expensive to keep pictures of billions of pieces of mail. So there’s no need for us to do that.'”


        • Well a recount of fraudulent ballots might not be enough. We need to also figure out which ballots are bogus, and that will be more difficult.

          • A lot of ballots were sent out to people not their are not even resident to state, it not unusual to hear some on who got multiple ballots delivered to their address for people that have not lived their for years. If the used those ballots they are not bogus, just illegal use to vote multiple time. Somehow I don’t think that was accident.

        • Ballots should be numbered, as are lottery tickets.
          All ballots must be run through a machine on or before Election Day.
          No ballots are valid, unless post-marked on or before Election Day.

          With a proper computer system, immediately after the polls close, it will be known which ballot numbers are missing, such as someone died, moved away, or did not bother to vote.

          Those numbers would be declared void, to avoid printing on the sly.

          There would still be many smaller ways to game the system, but at least the barn door would be closed before the horse got out.

          Before the present election, truckloads of ballots were printed, and filled out, for Biden, and distributed, as needed, to tip the various races in favor of Biden; a pre-meditated plan hatched in Democrat-run cities.

          Trump litigating would not catch enough fraud to make a difference.

          Changing the rules?
          Will never happen, because power folks like losey, goosy rules.

          • “Before the present election, truckloads of ballots were printed, and filled out, for Biden, and distributed, as needed, to tip the various races in favor of Biden; a pre-meditated plan hatched in Democrat-run cities.”

            Really? Truckloads? You got some evidence of that? Photos? A paper trail? Anything? You want to go to court with that? Really?

            Not enough people voted for Trump in order to retain the Presidency, and the guilty party in that is Trump himself. He is an utterly vile person and enough people figured that out to deny him a second term. It’s that simple. Crying fraud and cheating and stealing just makes you sound pathetic. Some you win, some you lose. It’s how you deal with that that marks you out.


            In Vermont, a blank ballot was mailed to each active registered voter, dead or alive, moved away or not.
            Registered voters 506,312
            Votes cast 372,366,

            Those who received a ballot, but lost it, could obtain a new one on Election Day by signing an affidavit at their polling place.
            When I arrived in early morning, there already was a box full of signed affidavits.
            That means many more blank ballots were printed, and available at each polling station
            A number of blank ballots may have been kept” in reserve” to be filled out, as needed, at each polling station, or elsewhere, to tip close races one way or another.
            This would especially be the case in swing states, such as Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, North Carolina, Nevada and Arizona.
            In all these states, Trump was ahead, then “all votes were counted”, including “reserve votes” appearing from all over the place,
            Counting went on for days after the election, until Trump ended up behind, and was not elected.


            I watched a Twitter 6-part video on my iPhone, showing a woman poll worker talking about three trucks arriving at her polling station in Detroit, Michigan.
            The trucks delivered more than 138,000 ballots all marked for Biden.

            She was talking for about 20 minutes about what she and other people saw.

            This is a huge bit of news.
            Organized fraud on a large scale, to deprive Trump from being re-elected.
            It is just unbelievable
            And the same thing happened in Wisconsin!!

            This major fraud, on a large scale, just had to be prepared in advance, and in secret.

            This is a direct consequence of mail-in ballots, and “counting” ballots up to 10 days after election day.

          • Here, on TWITTER, is a 6-part video of a poll station worker talking for about 20 minutes
            She, and others, saw 3 trucks arrive about 4 AM Wednesday, Nov 3, with more than 130,000 ballots, all filled out for Biden, ready for counting.

            I recommend you watch all 6 parts to get a democracy-in-action education.

            She said: Poll workers were astounded all the ballots were marked for Biden.
            We were told to scan/count them, even though none of them had been verified.
            She said: Poll challengers/poll watchers were barred to observe the scanning/counting.

          • You mean so there world be a permanent record of how you voted? Police State Rule 1 it would seem to me.

          • Willem, you spend way too much time on Twitter. Twitter is designed for bird brains, that’s why it has the name.


            With the internet, and uncensored social media, there is no place to hide, as SNOWDON has been telling us.

            Democrats, with help of the MEDIA, are declaring victory, BEFORE RECOUNTING ANY BALLOTS.
            However, the wrong-doing have been so extreme, it would take months to PARTIALLY get to the bottom of it.

            So the Democrats and the Media tell us: Throw in the towel, move on, time to heal!
            There is nothing to see here.
            Nothing needs to be investigated
            All is fair and square

            That would mean it would again happen in the next election.

            Trump wants to show his 70+ million supporters how much wrong-doing has been perpetrated, for the record.

            Here, ON TWITTER, is a video of a postal worker being told to backdate ballots so they could be counted.
            He says: Normally this would be done by a clerk, but this time the supervisor was backdating.


            Voter tallies before the bump in Michigan:
            Trump had 2,200,902 votes
            Biden 1,992,356 votes
            Trump had a lead of 208,546 votes, which could not be offset with mostly Democrat mail-in votes.

            Voter tallies after the bump in Michigan:
            Trump had 2,200,902 votes
            Biden had 2,130,695 votes
            Trump had a reduced lead of only 70,207 votes, which could easily be offset with mostly Democrat mail-in votes

            The instantaneous Biden bonus was 138,339 votes
            The instantaneous Trump bonus was ZERO votes.

            Daily Caller: While these are solely “allegations”, Michigan and Wisconsin election officials refuse to explain Biden’s dramatic vote tally increase that occurred in both states overnight.

            Here is the BS obfuscation from Michigan election officials
            “It was a simple error from a file created by the state that we ingested. DDHQ does not correct/amend/adjust any state provided file. The state noticed the error and produced an updated count. This happens on election nights and we expect other vote tabulators in MI experienced this error and corrected in real-time as we did,” the company said in a statement, according to Politifact.

            Here is the BS obfuscation of Decision Desk HQ echoing Michigan election officials
            Decision Desk HQ, from which many screenshots of the supposed discrepancy were obtained, claimed that the jump in Michigan was due to “a data error”.
            The entire ballot bump is for Biden, and there is zero bump for Trump?

            Here is USAToday leaving out some important details
            “The jump in Wisconsin occurred when Milwaukee reported its absentee ballot results”, according to USAToday.

            Sure. The ballots arrived on 3 trucks, at the polling station, from who knows where, at 4 am.
            The upward Biden bump was registered on websites before 6 am.

          • As a complete neutral living in France but spending some time in US , out of interest I had one of the interactive maps open on the 3.4,5 of Nov, showing the votes per county and percentage outstanding updated regularly.
            I can confirm that something very strange happened in Detroit early morning the day after the election. Suddenly just under 138,000 votes were registered to Biden yet there was no change to the outstanding percentage. Two hours later exactly the same happened in Milwaukee with 100,000 votes. I mentioned to my wife that this seemed very strange.
            Of course the snail pace of counting outstanding votes across 5 other States seemed also odd. I am used to competition between polling stations over who can finish fastest.
            Prima facie there appears to be something worth investigating if the money and/or will is available to do it.


            In Vermont, a blank ballot was mailed to each active registered voter, dead or alive, moved away or not.
            Registered voters 506,312
            Votes cast 372,366,

            Those who received a ballot, but lost it, could obtain a new one on Election Day by signing an affidavit at their polling place.
            When I arrived, early morning, on Election Day, there already were boxes with signed affidavits.

            Spare Ballots: That means an extra quantity of blank ballots were printed, and available at each polling station.
            Some of these ballots could be used by polling station insiders to tip close races one way or another.
            It is likely, an extra quantity of blank ballots were kept “in reserve” elsewhere.
            They likely were already filled out, to be distributed, as needed, to tip close races one way or another.

            Swing States: This would especially be the case in swing states, in, such as in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, North Carolina, Nevada and Arizona.
            Various irregularities have been reported in five Democrat-Big-Machine cities, such as Detroit, Mich.; Philadelphia, Pa.; Atlanta, Ga.; Milwaukee, Wis.; and Las Vegas, Nev.

            The Coup d’Etat: As if orchestrated, ballot counting was halted or slowed down, about the same time, in a number of key states, starting late Tuesday, November 3, and early Wednesday, November 4.
            Panic! Trump was too far ahead! Biden votes were needed to be distributed to polling centers for counting on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.

            A few hours later, starting about 4 am, there were steady influxes of Biden votes in Michigan, Wisconsin, etc.
            Trump saw what was happening, and wanted to stop the counting. All to no avail.
            Poll station monitors were not allowed to watch. Windows were being boarded up.
            Call the FBI to investigate?
            The FBI would be of no help, because it has been actively undermining Trump, with help of the Media, which is 93% anti-Trump.

            The allegations are:

            1) Mysterious ballot drops that seem to show tens of thousands of votes for Joe Biden and zero votes for President Trump,
            2) Inexplicable record turnouts in late-counting counties (all Democrat-dominated) that far surpass turnouts in counties in other states where the votes were counted on a timely basis; and
            3) The illegal banning of election observers in those very counties where the most outrageous anomalies were reported.

            In all these states, Trump was ahead, then using the mantra “all votes must be counted”, Biden votes were appearing from various places.
            Counting went on for days after the election, until Trump ended up behind, and was not elected.

          • Adrian: “Not enough people voted for Trump in order to retain the Presidency”

            More people voted for him this time than in 2016, about 10 million more.

        • Recounts only help if the fraud is by manipulated computer ballot counters.

          Ballots are not signed. Your signature is on the envelop, not the ballot. Those two pieces of paper or irretrievably separated. There is no way to know if that recounted ballot is a ballot from a real, living, registered citizen voter…

          … unless, as Steve Pieczenik has stated, the Dem fraud was anticipated and the ballot paper itself is watermarked.

          • I’ve read that the watermark story is just a story, that each state prints its own ballots. I am unsure where the truth may lie, though.

        • Tom,

          Consider this,

          Crooked Pollsters create fake papers for Biden. Easy to pick.

          But they can just as easily take away the same number of Trump papers.
          Not so easy to pick right?

          There will be all sorts of Sh-t going on in my view.

          We are very likely witnessing the demise of the USA. Trump was bringing the place back, but the corrupt officials and “elected” people are now showing how they can get away with anything without fear of being caught or ending up in front of a non corrupt judge.

          God Save the United States of America!


          • Trump seemed to be disuniting America. Evidence? That Trump supporters believe that non-Trump supporters are corrupt. Just maybe, more people dislike Trump than like him?

            Indeed, God save the United States of America. You certainly need some help to stop hating each other and become united, for the good of the world and for your own sake.

        • Recount all votes in all swing states, Arizona (hardly ever votes Dem) and Michigan (known software glitch). Georgia, suddenly 36% more dem votes than Obama got. And so on. It stinks.

          • Total turnout THIS elections: 67% … the highest voter turnout in 120 years!! For a dementia patient for POTUS. Total 2008 turnout for the FIRST (half) Black POTUS: 58%. Sorry … that beggars belief. My experience at my own polling place (2008 was busiest in my 38 years of voting here) certifies the Biden turnout was vote fraud

          • Kenji. The turnout was against Trump, not for Biden. A ham sandwich would have gotten the votes.

        • Is there a handy listing of actual voter turnout by % in each voting area, as a very high turnout above the average might indicate something was amiss, otherwise we appear to be in to conspiracy theories.


          • The smallest possible “voting area” is the county. Since the introduction of the “early voting” fraud, voters from any precinct in the county could vote at any poll. This was done so that poll watchers at a precinct could not spot someone impersonating their neighbor.

      • Krishna Gans
        November 7, 2020 at 2:20 pm

        There is a clear infringement of the USA Constitution, knowingly and willfully committed by the courts and the Government of Pennsylvania in consideration of the Federal Presidential elections… in consideration of counterfeiting the vote and the will of the people intentionally… and wholly grossly irresponsibly.

        Persons responsible for such a crime better wish that the clause of collaboration and planing is not added on the top of it all.

        It is not just simply a case of only fraud.

        The Legislature makes laws..
        not the courts or the governors.

        In the case of Pennsylvania, such a crime has clearly effected the result… in favor of the Democrat candidate for presidency.

        Where and when almost the whole MSM has already declared they favored darling as President-Elect, regardless not only of the proposition of such a big serious problem with voting in Pennsylvania but also when and where the counting of votes still in play… and when clearly they happen not to be the Legal authority vested with
        the power and responsibility for such calls.

        Clearly most of MSM is oppressing and infringing openly and feverishly the right of legal institutions which by the means of the USA constitution have the power and responsibility to exercise and discharge such a duty in behalf of the People.

        That is a clear case for a serious Federal investigation, on top and following the rest of all other legal litigations and the Legislature act-decision in consideration of the Pennsylvania votes.


        • So what , even if Congress both houses reject the electoral college votes of Pennsylvania , Biden still wins.
          In reality you are just spouting high class bull with no evidence

          • It’s not high class bull, as you call it. It is a correct interpretation of United States Election Law. There are serious issues that need to be investigated here and I would say that regardless of who the candidate is. This is not about personalities. I grew up in a country that had faith in the electoral process(warts and all). This is just too much to be ignored. If any wrongdoing, on either side is discovered, it has to be transparently and publicly dealt with so Americans can know they have legitimately elected office holders.

            As far as no evidence. That gets shown in court and is decided upon. It is not for you to say what is or is not evidence. In the same manner that the winner is not selected by the press. States certify their votes, they declare who won which state. Then it goes to the electors and finally to Congress. We have a 200+ plus year legal process to resolve disputes in this country. I say let that process work.

          • Duker
            November 7, 2020 at 9:57 pm

            Oh, well Duker.

            You want to hear some “high class bull”.
            There it goes.

            When it comes to USA Military, “these guys” are not obliged either by the
            USA Constitution or any other law of the land to disclose to, alert or informing any one
            whomever whatsoever of any of their investigation conduct, whatever the case be, may be or could be, whomever be cold be or may be subject to it.
            Tough “high class bull”, as you may say.

            I know,
            I should have resist it, but could not… the “bull” thingy still gets me weak point there.


      • Everyone should take a look at the Benford Law analysis of votes in Milwaukee, Chicago, and Allegheny, here:

        Only the Biden votes show anomalous behavior, when comparing sets of votes taken from the identical county or precinct.

        The analysis is not proof of fraud, but it is extremely strong indicator of investigation for fraud.

          • Why would one expect a symmetrically distributed vote count, Sy? That, in itself, looks suspicious.

          • I think the criticism of the Benford Law analysis is fair enough, but it was based on synthetic data. That’s a problem straightaway. There is online rejection of the criticism too.

            The red flag for me is that the graphs are comparing Biden to the other candidates in the same area. So in states like Florida Biden’s graph looks like all the others. In the Milwaukee, Chicago and Allegheny graphs – Biden’s looks like the odd one out. Why is it only Biden’s that looks odd in multiple areas?

            Suspicious? Yes.
            Evidence of fraud? No, insufficient.

            Red flags are signs something needs investigating. There do seem to be some legitimate red flags. Evidence is what is needed before making accusations.

          • ThinkingScientist, that was my initial take as well. All the vote counts from the same county or precincts, and all but Biden’s approximated Benford’s Law.

            Very good cause for suspicion. A widespread Benford’s Law analysis of votes would allow quick zeroing-in on areas worthy of detailed evaluation.

        • As a tax inspector I’d say it’s a strong indicator but one needs more to really seal te case. Been there done that. Won’t be easy here. I have no skin in the game btw being Dutch….not much anyway. 4 1 (for one) I’d be sorry to see Trump go.

      • I’m a chief election judge and Joe’s Party committed fraud on a pre-planned, systematic and industrial scale.

      • “Generative Adversarial Networks (GANs) are simulated constructs that appear to be real. Very advanced AI.
        Generative Adversarial Networks (GANs) are simulated constructs that appear to be real. Very advanced AI
        This may be a ⁣Generative Adversarial Networks (GANs) simulation. GANs are simulated constructs using advanced Artificial Intelligence (AI).
        For more about GANs, see ⁣….rative-adversarial-n – Beginner’s Guide to Generative Adversarial Networks (GANs)

      • And when you have hard evidence of SOME fraud, then what?

        When someone caught cheating, there is a usually small upper bound on his cheating.

        [It’s pretty much like the overwhelming evidence that the Hep B causes MS, or that ROR causes brain issues, you almost can’t find proof for a single case. Yet the explosion of cases is a statistical reality and can’t be explained away.]

        We NEVER ask for what you mention for third world phony “elections”: the simple fact the result is unbelievable is enough.

        The simple fact you ask for more is proof the process is not OK.

      • “and its found out fraud was committed ”

        There is enough suspicion that parts of the election was rigged, particularly in the key states were voting was suspended for a number of hours. That needs investigating .

        That’s why I quoted myself “and its found out fraud was committed ” proof will be found for fraud or not in a investigation. The suspicion is overwhelming ,surley democrates will not try to block a investigation that calls upon integrity, honesty of the voting system of the USA.

        • In France they changed the standard of proof, by fiat (the power of unelected, incompetent “so called judges”) to prevent the indemnification of victims of the horrible hep B vaccines. They changed it to an impossible as well as meaningless standard of “direct causation” which is not even a science thing. (Judges are ignoramuses.)

          And the intelligentsia was ecstatic: they worship vaccines. (Now Europe has reversed that mega extreme craziness and we are back to normal crazy bias against victims of vaccines.)

          It’s the same exact issue. You can never prove exactly that thousands of frauds occurred (each single one), with thousands of proofs (one proof per crime). It isn’t even imaginable.

          Likewise, you can never prove without a possible doubt that a single case of MS is with absolute certainty caused by a drug. In fact you can almost never prove ANY crime with that level of certainty.

          That’s why the standard is “reasonable” not “possible”. That evaluation is only possible with a reasonably educated population, not the edu-cretinized populace with have thanks to schooling fundamentalism (= school good, education is a sound investment, longer education better, as much people as possible should go to university, etc.).

          And the same people dare criticize “CSI” because it makes jurors in NY (why just NY?) incapable of daring a guilty verdict without tons of forensic evidence that cannot be expected in most cases.

          How do you know these whiny “CSI made me lose an easy case” prosecutors are not just inept and bringing badly argued case with lots of unknown and too much uncertainty? Why should we trust by default these prosecutors? Why can’t the media ask them why we shouldn’t conclude they suck? (Remember it’s the same NY populace that is presumed by the same media to be more evolved, more educated, better informed than the rednecks in flyover country and the black-“internalized white supremacy”-people.)

      • The evidence of fraud looks generally like this (partial list):

        Extended voting beyond legal limits (PA)
        Failure to segregate late versus timely ballots (PA)
        Failure to check identifying marks on ballots (PA, GA, MI, NV)
        Refusal to allow Republican election observers (most)
        Blocking windows to prevent observation (Detroit)
        4 A.M. dumps of 100% Biden votes (WI 65K, MI 138,499)
        Large number of Biden ballots with only president vote compared to Trump ballots
        Voting wards with more votes than voters (WI) goes into some detail on the subject.

        • 4 A.M. dumps of 100% Biden votes (WI 65K, MI 138,499)

          Can we drop the MI claim? It has been shown untrue, and most articles I’ve seen about it (including at The Federalist and Western Journal) have posted retractions.

          I’m with you on the evidence, but it hurts the case when you include invalid evidence. Let’s stick with what’s been shown and NOT disproved/retracted.

          • “I’m with you on the evidence, but it hurts the case when you include invalid evidence.”


            You’re being kind. There have already been ass eatings by judges tiring of frivolous motions. This coming week we can look forward to MANY more. FYI, judges can sanction them when they become even more ridiculous.

    • Con duct of elections is a matter for the individual States, that is what the Constitution says; they are not a Federal matter. The Supreme Court has, correctly, always been very reluctant to get involved. The States most in question, their Supreme Courts are by and large solid Democrat. A Court that doesn’t want to be convinced won’t be.

      Don’t expect Trump lawfare to get many wins.

      • In fact, don’t expect any. Even if he does manage to win in court, that’s not the same thing as him overturning the votes and winning the Presidency. Ye Gods and little fishes… can anyone imagine the utter omnishambles of your country if, against all the odds, he somehow overturns the results and claims the Presidency? Now there’s a recipe for chaos.
        As an aside, merely claiming that there’s been fraud is not evidence of that fraud. From way back, it was perfectly clear to anyone with the most basic grasp of US politics that he would lose. Therefore, it should come as no surprise that this has come to pass.
        Trump is, as is universally known, a liar and a sore loser. He will grasp any straw, try any trick, tell any lie in order to not be, in his eyes, that most despised of creatures – a loser. However you want to try and wriggle your way out of it, finesse the details, look for grey areas, Supreme Court this or Federal case that, cite the Constitution, peddle baseless conspiracy theories, indulge in wishful thinking because things haven’t gone the way you want, the evidence points to an inevitable conclusion: Trump failed to gather enough votes to win. He failed because of a failure of his intellect and understanding of what was necessary to win. He failed to understand that what worked the first time would not work the second time.

        One Term Trump. And so, predictably, it came to pass.


        • mann oh mann
          I studied the results of the Trump Administration and wrote two eight page articles for my former newsletter ECONOMIC LOGIC.
          I gave Trump a “B” for his first two years and and “C” for his next 1.5 years.

          I believe as a libertarian I can fairly analyze both Republicans and Democrats. I did not vote for Trump in 2016 but did vote for him in 2020 only because the sad alternative was to reward the head of the Biden crime family (over six articles on the subject on my politics blog at )

          I think it is pitiful that Trump and Biden were the two “best and brightest” people to run for president in 2020. But then I also think every president is worse than the prior president, since Eisenhower.

          Trump may be a blabbermouth constantly bragging about himself, but he stood up to you horrible leftists lying about his character for five year, starting with the completely fake Russian Collusion Delusion and then impeachment with no specific federal crimes ever stated.

          What I give Trump credit for is drawing out onto the public the horrible, hateful characters of most leftists. I realized there was a serious problem when I began studying climate science in 1997.
          Trump helped reveal the true hatred by leftists, of everyone who does not support their socialist policies.

          Obama “promised” I could keep my doctor, and my medical insurance plan, when I joined his O’Bummer Care. Well, of course I could not keep my reasonably priced Blue Cross plan and I lost my primary care doctor when I signed up for a reasonably priced ObamaCare plan … at double the cost per month … and with a much higher deductible. Talk about lying !

          Truth is not a leftist value.

          • I’d suggest all Americans look in the mirror. Those on the right believe those on the left are horrible hateful characters. Those on the left believe those on the right are horrible hateful characters. Either you are all horrible hateful characters, or you are all unfairly judging each other. Trump just demonstrated this!

            You must be aware that the legislature was stacked against Obama, and anyway, any small attempt to fix part of the medical system was probably doomed to failure.

          • Mr Foley, are you even aware of what the Democrats have been doing for last 4 years?
            Hateful doesn’t even cut it where that was concerned.

          • Well, Tommy-boy, it hasn’t been the Republicans burning and looting and throwing up fake conspiracies and weeping about the election results for 4 years running. Didn’t do that during the 8 years of the Obutthead administration. Projection, much?

        • The idea that a deficit of a couple of million votes in a voting population of around 140 million people somehow valides your various claims about Trump (or Biden for that matter) is nonsense. The future of America depends on an understanding that around 67 million people chimed with Trump’s vision of how the US should be governed while 69 million (apparently) sided with that of the Democrats. Biden himself is merely a figure-head. Trump has never been that. To repeat if I may, the idea that a failure of intellect on the part of Trump is demonstrated by a voting deficit of 2 million people is simply nutty.

        • He did not fail. Not a single military conflict, nominated for Nobel peace prize, booming economy for all of America, withdrew from Paris accord, defeated isis, made US energy dependent, peace deals between Israel and several Arab countries. All while fighting off bogus Russia hoax,
          And foolish impeachment…

          • And so much more! Our country is on the brink of total socialist take over. The repercussions of that will make the Obama years seen like a cake walk. When they come for our second amendment there will be very bad consequences. And they will come. Many years ago I told friends and family the path to take our freedom was simple. First, limit speech. That’s done. Take control of health care. It has been close to being destroyed. Now it will be. Limit our ability to move around at will. They have been working on that for years. Take away cars powered by fuel and destroy the energy independence Trump built we are very restricted. Tnen when they come to take our guns we have little recourse but to surender. And the democrats everywhere are celibrating as this is starting. I’m really sad this day has come.

        • Actually, no Trump is not a liar. As President, he has only told the truth and abided by the Constitution.

          Remember, here in the US the president is not elected until the electoral college casts its votes in December, and they are beholden only to the state legislators.

          The evidence of fraud looks generally like this (partial list):

          Extended voting beyond legal limits (PA)
          Failure to segregate late versus timely ballots (PA)
          Failure to check identifying marks on ballots (PA, GA, MI, NV)
          Refusal to allow Republican election observers (most)
          Blocking windows to prevent observation (Detroit)
          4 A.M. dumps of 100% Biden votes (WI 65K, MI 138,499)
          Large number of Biden ballots with only president vote compared to Trump ballots
          Voting wards with more votes than voters (WI)
 goes into some detail on the subject.

        • The only thing he, and everyone else fail at was to see how crooked the dnc was, is and always will be.

      • The state legislatures determine the laws regarding voting and elections in their state.
        The laws on the books during an election cannot be changed by a justice, governor, or secretary of state. They don’t have the authority.
        Any changes made to the electoral process that did not pass the state legislature prior to the election are not valid and subsequently, those ballots that did not meet the criteria set forth in the law, are invalid.

    • Bee Dee Clerk
      Biden will be president in late January unless he forgets to go to the swearing in, or gets lost on the way because Kamala gave him the wrong directions. Fraud happens in every election. This may have been the worst because of the large percentage of mail in ballots, and ballots delivered to old inaccurate voter registration list addresses.

      A friend originally from another state got a ballot delivered to his parents home in that state, where he first voted at age 18, and never voted in that state again. He has not lived in his parents home, or in that state, since going to college. His parents tore up the ballot. Other less honest people might have mailed it in. The friend is in his late 30’s now !

      Proven fraud would have to be large enough to change who won a state, and enough states with proven fraud to keep Biden under 270 electoral votes. Almost impossible to do with so many mail in ballots where signatures were never checked by handwriting experts.

      I wrote a short article on the subject today, with a long title: “Not one currently known election rule change, rule breaking, action, or glitch favored President Trump. If the “errors” were random, some would favor Trump.” … at my politics blog where many other articles reveal how Biden is the most corrupt politician ever elected as an American president:

      • … “Second most corrupt politician ever elected as an American President.”

        There – fixed that for you. You’re welcome.

      • Sorry but you are wrong. The various actions do make a difference and are enough to swing the election.

        The evidence of fraud looks generally like this (partial list):

        Extended voting beyond legal limits (PA)
        Failure to segregate late versus timely ballots (PA)
        Failure to check identifying marks on ballots (PA, GA, MI, NV)
        Refusal to allow Republican election observers (most)
        Blocking windows to prevent observation (Detroit)
        4 A.M. dumps of 100% Biden votes (WI 65K, MI 138,499)
        Large number of Biden ballots with only president vote compared to Trump ballots
        Voting wards with more votes than voters (WI) goes into some detail on the subject.

    • With Biden’s declining health, we don’t need to worry about him reaching the white house. Kamala will be sure he isn’t sworn in.
      Many other things I could say, but the electorate will have final say in December.

    • “Generative Adversarial Networks (GANs) are simulated constructs that appear to be real. Very advanced AI.
      Generative Adversarial Networks (GANs) are simulated constructs that appear to be real. Very advanced AI
      This may be a ⁣Generative Adversarial Networks (GANs) simulation. GANs are simulated constructs using advanced Artificial Intelligence (AI).
      For more about GANs, see ⁣….rative-adversarial-n – Beginner’s Guide to Generative Adversarial Networks (GANs)

    • First of all, only the Media has said that Biden has won and Trump has lost.

      Nothing is official until – Monday December 14, 2020 – Electors cast their electoral votes – and Wednesday January 6, 2021 when Congress counts and certifies the electoral votes.



    • The clue is : who can honestly say Trump was ever going to accept any defeat?
      He lost by probably 5% popular vote
      4 million votes
      7O ECV

      It could have been double and he’d have said exactly the same.

    • Focus please people. The question wasn’t whether fraud was committed but what happens if it was and it ends up being demonstrated. Which is an excellent question because if in fact it turns out that there was a sufficient level of ballot skulduggery to change the election, but it is not confirmed until after the president is sworn in, it is a very major problem what is then to be done. Especially given the massive size of the modern Executive Branch and the sheer administrative scale of transitions.

      It seems to me the best solution is to bring forward any credible evidence as quickly as possible and investigate anything credible as quickly as possible, all as fair-mindedly as possible. In the current environment a lot of people are losing their cool and jumping to conclusions in both directions including rushing to answer a different question than was actually asked.

      Let’s try to stay calm, rational and systematic.

      • “Regardless of MSM claims, Biden is not president, and has no power as such, until sworn in on 20 Jan 2021.”

        Which MSM outlet says any differently?

        • B.O.B your being obtuse, all MSM reported Biden as president when he reached 279 votes, it was a couple of days later when they changed the statement to ” president elect”

          • “B.O.B your being obtuse, all MSM reported Biden as president when he reached 279 votes,”

            Folks, another alt. fact. Citation please, for that BigFoot MSM outlet that said, or inferred, that Biden was already president. Let alone, “all MSM”…..

    • Timetable:
      3 November = Election Day
      3 December = Electoral College Voters selected
      14 December = Electoral College Voters cast votes
      6 January = The new Congress counts Electoral College votes
      20 January = Inauguration Day.

      Meanwhile, several states have election results close enough to qualify for a mandatory recount.
      Oh, and the USPS photographs each piece of mail that passes through its system.

      And even if all the “evidence” of voting fraud is thrown-out, there will still be many who don’t believe even that evidence!

      It’s fascinating to watch The Fall of the USA empire, in real time.

      • Oh, and the USPS photographs each piece of mail that passes through its system.

        “Mr. Donahoe said that unlike the National Security Agency’s collection of phone logs and overseas Web traffic that has come under scrutiny, the Postal Service does not maintain a massive database of the letter images. The scanning machines at the mail processing centers only keeps images of the letters they scan.

        ‘It’s done by machine, so there’s no central area where any of this information would be,’ he said. ‘It’s extremely expensive to keep pictures of billions of pieces of mail. So there’s no need for us to do that.'”

    • Biden decided to take an initiative and declared himself President without waiting for courts. Welcome to Banana Republic USA.

      • What the media and Biden say is legally irrelevant. The election will not be decided until the states all certify their elections and the electoral college votes. There is lots of time for law fare between now and then. Just remember, in 2000, Gore did not concede until 3 weeks after the election, and multiple recounts and 2 Supreme Court decisions.

        This time around, if there are big irregularities that can be proven–a big hurdle–we will know soon enough. And there will be time enough to work things out. All I ask at this point is that Trump be gracious and polite–he doesn’t have to concede anything yet, and he certainly seems disinclined to do so.

        • I don’t think these proclamations by Biden and the media are irrelevant. They are implanting the idea that the election is over and Biden has won. If, and only if, the legal challenges are upheld and Trump ends up the winner, then those who have fallen for the false narratives of the polls, the unofficial declarations of Biden and the media will protest as if Biden had actually won. Setting the mind set against a reversal is what they are up to.

          • “Biden and the media will protest as if Biden had actually won.”

            Nope. More Trumpian projection. Please provide the name of ANY losing Dem prez candidate who handled it worse than a’lOrange.

          • Clinton said it was the Russians, with zero evidence, and accused Trump of a bizarre conspiracy, so there is that.

      • Why should Biden wait? All of the states have indicated the voting was counted legally and in accordance with their guidelines, so in the eyes of the law, that’s it. Game over.
        Now if Trump thinks he can prove anything that would change the outcome, then that’s on him. Let’s see what he has got?

        • +1

          Transition activities should begin Monday. There have been zilch actual voting issues, that haven’t already been dealt with for decades. The only legal issues will be to ensure that i’s are dotted, t’s crossed. By the time the electors meet, all will be decided, and there will be only the whiny capital tweets to ignore…

          • b.o.b.
            You said, “There have been zilch actual voting issues, that haven’t already been dealt with for decades.”
            I don’t think that you have been paying attention. Or, perhaps, you are wearing political blinders. This election was anomalous because of the large percentage of mail-in ballots, in part because of the COVID-19 situation, in part because Democrats have been pushing for them, supposedly to make voting easy for people they claim are disenfranchised because of poverty. The point being that it isn’t the presence of voting fraud that is important, it is the potential for voting fraud of a magnitude not previously experienced in this country because of the high percentage of mail-in ballots and claims that poll watchers were not allowed to monitor the handling and counting.

            At this point there is primarily anecdotal evidence of a high level of fraud. However, unless the complaints are investigated, the public will never know if the complaints are valid. “The lack of evidence is not evidence against.”

          • “anecdotal evidence”?

            In lieu of actual evidence the word you’re looking for is gossip.

            Trump has a handful of minor technicalities he is challenging, but even most of those will be dismissed as trivial.

          • Watch the video above, linked to by Carbon Bigfoot, and tell us again there is no evidence of voter fraud. If you don’t want to watch the entire hour, view starting at about 45 minutes and see what happened in Michigan.

            It also appears the same type of change that appeared in Michigan may have also occurred in Pennsylvania at about the same time.

            Also note that there were more votes cast in Wisconsin than there are registered voters with Trump getting more votes than he got during the last election and still losing. That has never happened before.

            It is not just Trumps tweets, it is real and obvious problems that indicate blatant voter fraud in multiple states. Most Americans will never see any of this from the mainstream media. The cover-up is under way.

          • “Most Americans will never see any of this from the mainstream media. The cover-up is under way.”

            Reynolds wrap hoodie territory. Thousands would have to perfectly collude in this Dr. Evil “cover up”. But I’ll throw you a bone. I’ll bet that there are dozens of messages just like yours, here in alt. world. They are the same crowd that believes that tens of thousands of scientists are inventing AGW for grant money – when the $, by orders of magnitude, are in denial.

        • Why are you so desperate to push Biden into the White House right this minute?

          Is it because you know that there’s no way to hold the fraud together until January?

          All it takes is for a few fraudsters to get arrested, and the others will start turning each other in to avoid jail time.

        • He’s got nothing, as we all know. He was laying the ground for this course of action more than a year ago when it finally dawned on him that he could not, would not, win. The result will stand. One Term Trump will debase and humiliate himself, and will ultimately suffer the most egregious and draconian punishment imaginable – his Twitter account will be suspended.

          • Mann
            You claimed, without evidence, “… it finally dawned on him that he could not, would not, win.”
            Why would he or anyone come to that conclusion, when in retrospect, he has taken all the ‘Flyover States,’ and come within a couple percentage points of winning the key swing states? It is only the Media, pollsters, and irrational Democrats that were convinced that Trump didn’t have a chance and would lose by a wide margin. Or were they trying to convince the electorate that Trump would lose by such a wide margin that it wasn’t worth the effort for supporters to vote? Or that fence sitters should ‘get on the band wagon?’

            Your remarks sound like you are giving yourself too much credit for being able to read people’s minds.

        • Simon says “Why should Biden wait?”

          Probably because he has to, by law, wait for the Electoral College vote on December 14th.

          Amazing what you can learn on here isn’t it?

      • At most Biden has claimed he is president-elect, as most candidates with the electoral college numbers at this stage of the process have done in the past. You obviously know that this will not be confirmed until December at the earliest (allowing for legal challenges). So your statement is just muddying the water.

        • I don’t remember any presidential candidate claiming to be president-elect until the other has conceded the election. Apparently, you do or you would not have made the statement. Please convince me my memory is faulty by providing the name of those candidates who did. I’ll anxiously wait while you do that.

          • “I don’t remember any presidential candidate claiming to be president-elect until the other has conceded the election.”

            And I don’t remember any president or presidential candidate failing to graciously concede the election, when the result was certain. Since Joe and Kamala want to get things going in the right direction ASAP, it made perfect sense.

  2. “Most of our readers realize that today’s media pronouncements are meaningless and we are in for a month or more of lawfare.”

    It’s the “lawfare” that will end up being meaningless. What is important now is a smooth transition. I’m sure we will get Don’s full co-operation…..

      • Bob might not opine, but I will. The Supreme Court, in what I believe was a 6-3 decision in Bush v. Gore, held that Florida must adhere to its own election laws to stop counting at a certain point in time. The Gore campaign was trying to argue that some counties should have extra time to do recounts, but other counties (favoring Bush) should not be permitted to recount at all.

        After the dust cleared on the election, the New York Times, through the Freedom of Information Act (or something comparable in Florida) conducted its own recount of all ballots, and concluded that Bush did indeed win.

        The interesting comparison is that no one was alleging voter fraud in 2000–most of the argument was over how to count anomalous ballots–hanging chads and more than one vote for president and the like.

        • “The interesting comparison is that no one was alleging voter fraud in 2000”

          That statement is misleading at best, if not a lie.

          The main allegation was that the ballot caused confusion on which hole to punch to vote Gore, and the design was indented to confuse voters. So there were allegations of dishonesty (if not fraud or vote suppression) against Republicans.

          As a French citizen who barely followed US politics at the time, I know that.

      • “Please opine with your wisdom on Bush v. Gore.”

        Why? That was one state, incredibly tight. And none of the fact free allegations/whines capital tweeted out so far. And a respectful concession at the end. And a co-operative transition.

        The lawfare will be an irrelevant side show. What counts is anything approaching President Obama’s 2016 transition co-operation. I’m guessing, infantile tantrums, starting at the top, instead…

        • Yes such cooperation and calmness by Obama.
          Setting up Trump at the time to be undermined by the FBI like a smiling assassin.

          • Obama (as Trump now, and all departing presidents) had two choices: assist with an harmonious transition, or spit the dummy and whinge about the opposite party winning.

            Why would cooperation and calmness set up the winner for undermining? Wouldn’t whinging and negative comments be more effective if that was the aim?

            Anyway, the FBI didn’t need any encouragement to keep an eye on Trump; they would do this with any leader. As we’ve seen over the years, the relationship was fractious. And goes back well before Trump became president. The new documentary ‘An American Affair: Trump and the FBI’ should be interesting.

        • bob: President Obama’s 2016 transition? So, you’re OK if Trump’s team at FBI and DOJ investigate Biden, keep it from him, set up a special counsel staffed with trumpkins, and impeach Joe? Seems like a long ‘way round the barn to get the Pres. Kamala of your dreams.

        • “That was one state, incredibly tight”

          Nope. Incredibly large, unbeatable difference of many thousands.

          You will believe ANYTHING. It’s practically the requirement to get jobs in political analysis or epidemiology or criminology to accept that

          – mass immigration in Sweden didn’t cause super-explosion of rapes
          – the HBV in France (one of which was so awful, the producer didn’t try to have it accepted anywhere else) don’t cause tripling of MS
          – the Dems were not in the process of stealing the Bush election in Florida by making up votes

      • “If Biden has won fairly, then no problem”
        Based on what I have seen, that hypothesis no longer exists. The only question now is, To what extent did the fraud (several categories) affect the results.

        • So…I take it that in your simplistic view of the universe, there’s no difference between burning your steak and burning your house down. And slapping someone’s cheek is no different than breaking his face and busting three ribs.

          • Yes. This is fraud on a level never previously believed possible.

            If Harris is allowed to win, America will officially have reached Banana Republic status.

          • Tom
            Well come on what proof have you got these was major fraud? I mean it what can be confirmed here? I think you will find apart from the odd individual doing dumb stuff this was a fair election. Yes some of the watchers were asked to stand back in one or two locations…. but that wont change a thing. And all those ballots can be counted and checked. And let’s not forget Georgia was one of those states that had Biden surge back late and that election was run by the Republicans in charge.

          • Simon,
            The change in election law by the PA Court is number one. As in Bush v Gore, the SCOTUS threw out the Florida SC change in the law reaffirming that only the legislature can change laws. Second, the unverified mail in vote is suspicious enough for a recount. Third, the problem in Georgia was in Atlanta where the Democrats run the election in those precincts.
            Isn’t it odd that only in Democrat run cities of Atlanta, Detroit, Milwaukee and Philadelphia is there suspicion of fraud. And those are the cities that overcame large Trump leads after the election. You bury your head in the sand and ignore it all because you agree with the current outcome.

          • Let’s see the evidence to back up that claim.

            No… Tweets from Trump do not count as evidence.

          • Tom

            hey look, if a recount is needed then lets’ do it. I for one don’t believe there will be anything untoward found. It all made sense. Dems said do mail in to their voters and so those states that counted them last showed a claw back near the end. Also let’s not forget the polls in Philadelphia showed Biden clearly ahead. Now I know the polls have been off in quite a few places, but my point is it it was no surprise Biden won there. In fact the surprise if anything is that Trump did as well as he did across the nation.

          • Tom: You’re right.

            I was not allowed to post this on FaceBook. It does a nice job of making the case for fraud through statistics. Anyone here want to take a look and let me know what to think?

            The message warned “Pages and websites that repeastedly publish or share false news will see their overall distribution reduced and be restricted in out ways.”


        • Harry: You have just make no point whatsoever if you think lawlessness is OK because it’s been done before. You must also think peaceful protests mean burning down the streets and killing people.

        • Harry: And what you wrote, is sophomoric non sequitur as is used by children. Looks who’s talking about using a strawman. You are not a serious person.

      • Biden himself said on TV that ‘the Democrats have organized the most comprehensive voting fraud in history’ everyone thought it may have been his mental state but now, it seems, he was just telling the truth.

      • Yes, kicking out poll observers, ignoring judicial orders to access and covering up windows to prevent looking in is always an indication of fairness.

        • Consciousness of guilt. Much like when HRC destroyed evidence subpoenaed by Congress. What was she hiding? I don’t think it was influence pedaling through the Clinton Foundation, as this was already widely known. I’ll bet it was her involvement in making up the whole Russian collusion hoax which would have also implicated high level people in the Obama administration, which we now know went all the way up to Obama and Biden.

    • The Democrats set the bar pretty low when it comes to the smooth transition of power …

      Although, Biden chose Harris for the same reason Obama chose him as VP. The results of an impeachment would be worse. None the less, Biden won’t last until the end if 2021 and will either resign for health reasons or be impeached by his own party for influence peddling. Pelosi no longer needs her 25’th amendment ‘fixes’.

      • It will be a bizarre sight, but surely enough Republican senators would acquit on impeachment rather than allowing Harris to assume office. So we’re back to the 25th amendment or voluntary resignation, death, or Clinton-style “suicide” aka assassination.

        The 25th amendment won’t work for the Dems unless Biden agrees to it. If he agreed to it, he would just resign, with no further drama.

        If he disputes his incapacity under the 25th amendment, it will require a 2/3rds vote of the both the House and Senate to remove him. As with impeachment, Republicans will oppose removal if it means that Harris assumes office.

        What if the Senate is stolen as well? If Pelosi and Schumer push through a law designating a different body to determine whether a president who disputes incapacity under the 25th amendment can be removed, such that Republicans could not block removal, then Biden would presumably veto the bill, thus requiring 2/3rds majorities to override the veto, which Republicans would block.

        So if we want to avoid President Harris, we must hope that Biden wants to be president and is not “suicidal” or otherwise on his death bed.

        Well first of all, we can hope that the fraud can somehow throw out the EC electors from disputed states, or some state court decisions reverse the outcomes in enough states.

        I am not very optimistic about that. This is the flip-side of the Electoral College and 10th amendment. The sovereign states decide the process whereby their electors are selected, and their Supreme Courts alone have jurisdiction on interpretation of their state law and constitution, except in the event that a state law violates the US Constitution.

        The US Supreme Court cannot legitimately rule that a (US-)constitutionally valid state law has been violated or is in violation of that state’s own constitution. The conservative justices are conservative because they refuse to make decisions based on their own political preferences, unlike the liberal justices who make it up on the fly.

        My take is we probably have to live with Dementia Joe and pray for Georgia. Then in 2022, take back Congress to get gridlock firmly in place.

        But I’m just a semi-informed layman, so maybe I’m missing something here.

        • Yep, I can confirm that for you – you are definitely, absolutely missing something.

          Your task is now to figure what that is, and then you can start to make some sense of this omnishambles.

          • Wow, Adrian, I am reluctantly confirming that Trump is unlikely to win through the courts. It seems you are too dim to grasp that.

          • I apologize for that comment. I thought you were someone else who was arguing that Biden won fair and square.

            There is some hope for action at the state level, such as recounts discovering discrepancies or legislatures disputing results, etc.

            Maybe there could be a basis for some actions being unconstitutional at a federal level. I could certainly be missing something. So far I haven’t heard anything promising.

        • Good possibility. Sort of like the Democrats had to get rid of Agnew before they would go after Nixon. Could happen.

        • The US Supreme Court can rule that a state cannot violate its own laws, and they did just that in Bush v Gore in 2000, when they said that the state must adhere to its own laws governing when counts and recounts must end. They are the court of final jurisdiction in the country.

          Also the 25th amendment has a couple of avenues to push aside the President if he is incapacitated, one of which involves the President disputing the incapacity, in which case the and other executive branch officers may provide their own declaration of incapacity again, and the matter goes to the Congress, where a 2/3rds vote of both houses of concurrence is required. The President does not need to sign anything. He is also not removed from office–he is merely moved aside while the Vice President assumes his duties as acting president. The language of the amendment appears to assume that in the event of a terminal condition the President would either resign or die, in which case the VP would become president and a new VP would be nominated and confirmed by both houses of Congress. Since this amendment has never been invoked, there are no judicial opinions covering the situation in which an incapacitated president refused to leave office willingly.

          • It is a political decision, just like removal by impeachment. It’s very clear in the text. No need for any precedent. If the president disputes incapacity he immediately resumes office until and unless both houses of Congress come to a political decision with a supermajority of 2/3rds to remove him. It is not a scientific question to determine if he is incapacitated. If he’s alive and has disputed incapacity, they must vote or he stays. I guess that if he were unconscious and the cabal once again asserted incapacity such that he could not dispute it, then the conditions would apply so long as he remains unconscious or dies.

            It’s foolishness to discuss 25th amendment involuntary removal. In order of likelihood, he will serve out his term, resign, or die in office. He will never be removed involuntarily by impeachment or asserted incapacity.

          • I’m pretty sure he made a deal with his handlers to step down after the election. After all, they certainly knew of his mental deterioration and that he’s incapable of performing the most demanding job on the planet. He might have backed off on that promise which was why Pelosi was looking at changing the 25’th amendment.

            His handlers boxed him in to choose Harris by forcing him to declare that his running mate would be a woman of color. They knew that Harris was the least toxic of the possibilities, they wanted to appease their far left base and knew that Harris would become the President shortly after the election. How else could they fool the electorate to ‘elect’ the most far left, absolute worst candidate in the Democratic field.

        • Err… No. There are many instances where SCOTUS has overruled a State high court that has “interpreted” a State statute in an egregiously opposite way from even the most obfuscated language. The precedent is that legislators legislate, courts do not. (Yes, I know, I know – “activist judges.” Note, however, that even the most “activist” decisions are “justified” by appeals to the Constitution in the judgement that is handed down.)

          • As I understand it, the states are sovereign to interpret their own laws and constitution. The US Supreme Court is the final arbiter of whether a state law or state constitutional provision is in conflict with the US Constitution, not whether the state law is just or prudent, or consistent with the state’s constitution. If a state SC rules that a state law should be interpreted a certain way, even though a reasonable person would see the interpretation as unreasonable or even corrupt, I don’t think the federal authorities have jurisdiction unless they can argue that some US Constitutional provision is being violated such as the equal protection clause.

            If the SCOTUS could overrule a state SC ruling on a matter not touching the enumerated powers of federal government, then all state laws could be nullified by someone suing in state court and appealing to the SCOTUS, which would make a mockery of any state sovereignty.

            If I recall correctly the SCOTUS in the Florida recount case Bush v Gore based the decision on equal protection grounds.

            I have to assume that Trump’s team has some rationale for litigating in federal court and we’ll hear what that is as things unfold.

          • The issue with respect to PA and its State Supreme Court is not one of interpretation, but rather that the SC usurped the unambiguous word of law – effectively creating new law (or changing the existing) – and that is not their mandate – that is logically and legally the mandate of the state legislature.

            And the Federal Supreme Court will smash them for it 0- as they should.

        • Rich Davis: so you want to take back Congress and get gridlock firmly in place? That sounds as though you want a system that prevents the Democrats ever governing and embeds Republican control. In effect, disenfranchising more than 50% of the population.

          What a great role model as leader of the free world! The irony of it: to advance democracy, you would behave undemocratically?

          • The government that governs least, governs best. (Thomas Jefferson)

            Absolutely I want to block every damn one of the Democrat’s suicide pacts.

            Nobody is disenfranchised because they don’t get what they want. They vote and they lose. We have an intentionally encumbered republic that has numerous checks and balances to prevent the tyranny of the majority. We are not a parliamentary democracy. The executive and the legislature are completely separate by design.

            And another thing. We are a role model for the world. It’s just that the world keeps getting its panties in a twist over the fact that we’re not following their script.

          • “They vote and they lose. We have an intentionally encumbered republic that has numerous checks and balances to prevent the tyranny of the majority.”

            Minority rights has been perverted into minority rule. A minority of red taker states has a vested interest in disenfranchising the rest of us.

    • Like Trump did of Oblama. If we follow that model, Biden will be charge with money laundering by the end of the month. Unlike Trump Biden sold us out for money a long time ago and he hid the transfers. Only useful idiot don’t know this by now.

      • I have speculated about this. If the Democrat controlled House impeaches Biden for the dame crimes they accused Trump of committing, the they get a twofer. They can claim that they would prove themselves as being fair by treating both men the same and they get rid of Biden at the same time.

    • b.o.b.
      A smooth transition will be very difficult after deep thinkers like Pelosi said, “He’s not My president!”

  3. I suspect that Biden will either resign voluntarily because of health reasons, or Nancy Pelosi/Kamala Harris will invoke the 25th amendment. Harris becomes president and Pelosi becomes vice president. Then suppose Harris resigns and Pelosi becomes president? Far fetched? Maybe. Would any of this be called election fraud?

      • Right see my comments above.

        Also, the Speaker of the House only succeeds the president if both the president and vice president have died, resigned, or have been removed (in the right sequence without having the VP replaced). Of course a Dem-controlled Senate could join the Dem-controlled House in approving Pelosi as VP, after the death, resignation, or removal of Harris, if Biden nominated Pelosi, but in that case, Harris obviously does not become President.

    • No, first if Biden was out, then Harris would have to nominate a new Vice President. The only way the Speaker of the House (and it may very well not be Pelosi) is if both the President and VP go out together. But let’s suppose that AOC becomes Speaker of the House? She is not eligible to be President so who would it be then? President pro tempore of the Senate who is currently a Republican.

    • It’s highly likely that he won’t serve the full term. If he does serve his full term then it’ll be Harris or others in his administration making all the decisions, they’ll wheel him out on special occasions to wave at the crowd.

          • December 8th is the next date. Let’s see what the next month holds.
            Gore and Kerry took a dive to support the corrupt political system. I don’t think Trump will as he has nothing invested in the system.

          • TRM, yes this may be a case of careful what you wish for. Unless Trump rides into the sunset quietly, ha ha very unlikely, he’s probably going to be more dangerous as a civilian than as President.

      • Er… yes, he actually has. He got less votes than his opponent. His opponent got more votes. That’s kinda the point. That you don’t like it is of no importance.

        • No votes have been certified anywhere yet. Most states haven’t even finished counting. anything the media tells you or Biden says to the contrary are wrong.

      • “The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything” – Joseph Stalin

        This was a quote from one of the commenters on YT below the video

    • Trump won this, Dem’s did what they do, cheated, and they have been caught.
      Whether they pay for it is politics. But your framing of the situation is false on its face. Trump caught all of the prior Dem tricks, and this too will run its course.

      • And this is just the latest formidable contribution of a political outsider willing and able to ‘make America great again’ despite being subject to ceaseless personal vilification — unmasking all the recurring hate-filled deceit among that entrenched self-serving swamp of mislabeled ‘public servants’ that extends well beyond D.C. What a record of nearly single-handed service to his nation he has fulfilled at the expense of gratuitous personal attacks inflated by the rank abandonment of honest journalism. This ‘orange man’ has proven such a valuable litmus test to expose the covert dishonor of so many of his fellow politicos and their fellow traveling toadies whose conduct is beneath contempt.

  4. Will America ever again, at least in our lifetimes, believe the results of any future election? Will this further divide the country in two? Will this result in a despotic government run by the communists (currently called democrats)? Will this eventually result in civil war?

    • The democrats are anything but communists. They are two-faced, triangulating, opportunistic, bottom-dwelling corporatists. Please get your terminology straight!

      • No the a leftist, the same leftist that was silence when there fellow leftist murder over 200,000,000 people in the twenty century. Already the are talking reeducation camps. They are going to need them when their incompetence will causear them to fail. The question is, will thing get so bad the as usual end up shooting their useful idiots also. That is the left it model or rule. The left’s useful idiots never learn, of course that not surprising since the so call enlighten member of the left never learn. So thank useful idiot this is the first time we may have elect a President that is not capable of doing the job, yet the fools of his party never as the question what now. Not surprising the left destroys everything the touch.

      • Democrats are command and control people, who use government to have power.
        Republicans are command and control people, who use private corporations to have power.

    • If Trump loses this election, I vow to never vote, ever again! I will have lost ALL sense of what’s right! I’ll feel that my military service was all for naught! None of Americas values will stand for anything. So, yes, there will be a huge divide in this country, but, then, we already have that, now! It was NOT caused by Donald Trump, but started the first day of Obama’s first term, and , in fact, started even earlier, during the Clinton years, when he was allowed to escape his impeachment! The Democrats have been busily engineering this since at least 1950! It has been a very long, steep downward spiralling descent into the destruction of this country. Trump did NOT cause that!

    • The election process is so compromised I can’t imagine anyone believing the results of any election – that doesn’t go their way (about what we seem to have now).

      I don’t see a Biden presidency bridging the divide, and a Harris presidency will be even worse. I am convinced at this point that we are witnessing the end of the nation.

      • America isn’t a nation, and hasn’t been for a couple of hundred years. It’s a gaggle of competing nations stuffed into the same country.

        Which is always a recipe for conflict followed by secession.

      • Biden said he wants to be president for all Americans. Well, not this American. He will never be my president, and I suspect many others feel the same way. He will never bridge the divide, and neither will his running mate.

      • And how have you arrived at this opinion? Because your preferred candidate did not win? Is it only fair if it goes your way? I think you need to re-evaluate your understanding of this.

  5. Voting by mail is well known to be wide open to vote manipulation.
    So much so, that there are bound to be many such instances.
    The issue is going to be whether the scale is sufficient to make a difference and whether it was authorised at a high level within the Party benefitting from it.

    • The Democrats have been practicing this in California for years. They call it ballot harvesting and it always favors the Democrats days later when Republicans win on election night.

    • Stephen Wilde

      ” Voting by mail is well known to be wide open to vote manipulation. ”

      1. From Germany I tell you: bare nonsense. Everybody here is allowed to vote by mail:

      Absentee voting has existed in Germany since 1957, originally in order to ensure that all German citizens, especially the old, sick, and disabled, and citizens living abroad, have the opportunity to participate in elections.
      At first, postal voters had to state why they could not cast their vote in person on Election Day; but this requirement has been dropped in 2008, allowing everyone to use postal voting.
      Like in many other countries, in more recent years, voting by mail has become increasingly popular among younger and non-disabled citizens residing within the country; as such, various tools are being developed to help citizens, both domestic and abroad, more easily apply for postal voting.

      My German lady often made use of this possibilty.

      2. Until this year, Trump used mail voting all the time.

      This time, by accident of course,
      – he accuses mail voting, like you do here, of being a major source for fraud;
      and consequently
      – he voted in persona for the first time.

      Some comment, Mr Wilde?

      Best regards
      J.-P. D.

      • You are confusing absentee ballots which are strictly controlled to general mail in voting which has no controls. Try to keep up.

      • You confuse absentee voting with voting by mail. In an absentee voting, a voter requests a mail ballot, and returns it. In a voting by mail, a registrar of voters mails ballots to everybody on voter rolls, including deceased voters and voters who moved away years ago.

        • “a registrar of voters mails ballots to everybody on voter rolls, including deceased voters and voters who moved away years ago.”

          So why don’t they keep the voter rolls up to date ? it aint rocket science, if Google & Amozon can track every move you make, why cant the registrar of voters ???

          • Because it is advantageous for the voter rolls to be incorrect. One side or the other will take advantage of it.

          • An excellent question. Probably not enough money. Are you sure that Google and Amazon know your permanent address?

          • Ohio tries to do that. (Guess who screamed bloody murder?)
            To “paraphrase”, if a registered voter shows no voting activity for a certain number of years (6?) then they a are a notice that if they don’t respond to the notice then they will need to re-register.
            (I said “paraphrase” because I don’t recall all details but the gist of what I said is correct.)

          • So why don’t they keep the voter rolls up to date ?

            The registrars don’t seem to bother, and whenever anyone tries to get them updated, you have certain groups (all of which lean Dem) screaming about “voter suppression” and the like; even trying to block any such updates from being done.

        • Germany?
          83.8 million

          Neither so small, nor a single government. That’s what Bundesrepublik means — Federal Republic. 16 states (Bundesländer)

          • Yes, but my point was not that there is an electoral college, but that there are state governments that at least in theory are not just administrative districts of the national government. The difference you refer to is the difference between having an independent executive and having a parliamentary democracy where the executive is controlled directly by the leading party or coalition.

      • All the time? Trump has only run for office once – in 2016. We didn’t have a mail-in vote system like this one, ever, until this year. There are and have been absentee ballot systems (with very specific grounds and procedures, although those vary a lot among the 50 states) that have been in place. You have to specifically REQUEST an absentee ballot in most, if not all, of the 50 states.

        Trump hasn’t used any “mail-in” voting before this election – and it wasn’t his choice, either.

        By the way, Germany is one of the few European countries to have absentee/mail-in voting for anyone. France made a specific exception ONLY for this year to allow mail-in ballots to those who are actually sick or at risk of the COVID-19 virus; otherwise, it is prohibited. Poland has an exception that allows mail-in ballots ONLY for the disabled, upon presentation of a special certificate; Poland allowed mail-in balloting this year ONLY because of COVID-19. It’s gone after this year.

        A sizeable number of European countries have significant restrictions on absentee/mail-in voting – like requiring a photo ID (which none of the states currently in dispute have), which would be an excellent idea. You think you can troll the Democratic National Committee and tell them that?

      • There’s a big difference between the requirements for an Absentee Ballot and blindly mass-mailing ballots using outdated voter lists that contain dead people and folks who have moved.

      • you can thank God Germany does not have a criminal organization parading around as a political party. That is the history of the Democrat party. Their first President elected they got elected defied a Supreme Court Ruling, which lead to the train of tears. The Indian Tribes won a ruling the they owned their land in the southeast US, Jackson had the military forcibly remove them from their lands. He ignore the Courts ruling.

    • Oh Oh Oh… Please stop your ridiculous arguments.

      Postal voting in the United States, also referred to as mail-in voting or vote by mail,[1] is a form of absentee ballot in the United States, in which a ballot is mailed to the home of a registered voter, who fills it out and returns it by postal mail or drops it off in-person into a secure drop box or at a voting center.
      Postal voting reduces staff requirements at polling centers during an election. All-mail elections can save money, while a mix of voting options can cost more. In some states, ballots may be sent by the Postal Service without prepayment of postage. Vote by mail is available in both red and blue states.
      Research shows that the availability of postal voting increases voter turnout.
      It has been argued that postal voting has a greater risk of fraud than in-person voting, though known instances of such fraud are very rare, with one database finding 491 cases of absentee ballot fraud from 2000 to 2012, a period in which billions of votes were cast.
      Processing large numbers of ballots and signature verifications accurately has numerous challenges other than fraud.

      And again: I ask why in 2016 vote by mail {NOT: absentee voting} still was not considered a problem. Even the Trumps voted by mail.

      It is absolutely evident to me that this fraud story is a pure invention of the Trump administration.

      You are here all pro-Trumps? Ha. No problem for me, I’m happy that the Globe got rid of him.

      Good night to all of you,
      J.-P. D.

      • You quote: “491 cases of absentee ballot fraud from 2000 to 2012, a period in which billions of votes were cast.” This says nothing about mail-in voting. Read my comment above.

      • It is absolutely evident to me that this fraud story is a pure invention of the Trump administration.

        You are here all pro-Trumps?

        There is scientific evidence that fossil fuel emissions over preindustrial levels of 280 ppm cause global climate change.

        0 for 3 saddo.

        You can rephrase the last one if you want, you’ll still be zero for three

      • No, we’re not all pro Trumps, though we are in a minority here.
        It’s simple to understand Trumps response – he’s a sore loser. His supporters are also sore losers, grasping at straws.
        Have you noticed that the world collectively breathed a sigh of relief when the result became known? Suddenly everything seems better, more hopeful, more positive.. the darkest days may be behind us, the aberration has been excised, and we can all move on

        • Have you noticed that the world collectively breathed a sigh of relief when the result became known?

          Oh sure I did, you can’t imagine our reaction at home as we suddenly saw WashPo and NYT telling us that Biden had defeated Trump.

          J.-P. D.

    • This should not come as a surprise to anyone. Trump is not popular and has never been popular.
      He lost the popular vote to the most despised woman in America in 2016 and only won by a fluke of
      electoral college maths. Since then he has done nothing but increase the level of division and drive
      moderates away from him. There was a massive blue shift in 2018 showing the lack of support for
      Trump. Trump has also been losing to Biden in the polls since late 2019. Trump is also losing the
      popular vote by 4 million and is projected to lose that by several million more. So it should not come
      as any surprise that he lost in the electoral college.

      Futhermore the way that Trump lost was predicted by the media months ago. Polling showed that
      democrats were about 4 times as likely to vote by mail than republicans so it was always obvious that
      Trump would have a large lead on election night and that lead would disappear as the mail-in votes were
      counted. There is no evidence of widespread fraud at all — Trump lost because he was historically unpopular and it is as simple as that.

        • Sort of, but I think this guy is in the UK, so he just gets to recycle BBC turds amongst other turds he recycles. Like the other “musn’t grumblers” there, too lazy to actually do any independent research that would stifle their silly virtue-signaling.

          I understand this well, as I’m a “musn’t grumble” refugee as well as a climate refugee.

          Strangely, I was a believer in Democratic party thinking when I arrived here in 1980, with similar politics to Joe Biden even. As someone quoted on here recently “I didn’t leave the Democratic Party, the democrat party left me”. It’s quite sad that they make a guy with the onset of Alzheimers fake being a ph0ny-socialist, just because he can bark stupid slogans at a microphone, and not even do that well.

          The other shoe has yet to drop.

          • Biden is the epitome of a big eastern machine politician, he stands only for himself. He was the chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee and started the Democrat process of assassinating the character of Republican court nominees, aka “Borking”. He’s also an old-line Democrat racist.

            How will there ever be trustworthy elections in the U.S. again? If this fraud holds it will be the beginning of one-party rule.

      • Walton
        You claimed, “Trump has also been losing to Biden in the polls since late 2019.” Or so the Media and pollsters would have you believe. However, the results of the election demonstrate that the pollsters were wrong by an even larger margin this year than in 2016. The question is, was it incompetence or malfeasance?

        • The idea that Biden was so far ahead in the polls was to instill a false sense that Biden should win and that any irregularities wouldn’t matter. A couple of comments using those polls as “proof” that Biden would have won anyway supports this.

      • Yet roughly 70 million people voted for Trump. Do you not see I. W. that you are delegitimizing 70 million Americans with your flippant remarks. Hey, Biden may end up legitimately running the rest of the table, but by any sane measure, Trump is enormously popular.

        The hardest thing to figure out is how half of American thinks a guy who is in an early stage of dementia can handle the presidency. What has he done in 47 years on the job of governing when he had all his marbles that gives his supporters great expectations. At least Trump can run an economy and is tough enough to deal with the likes of China. It ain’t good that China appears to have already bought Joe, either.

        • Gary,
          Trump may have gotten 70 million votes but Biden is currently at 75 million. Again Trump
          is significantly less popular than Biden just as he was less popular than Clinton.

          • Good grief THANK YOU Izaak for pointing out to these rubes how roughly the population of TWO American cities, e.g., Los Angeles, CA and Austin, TX, separate the votes between Trump and Biden at the moment, and how this PROVES how hated Trump is.

            I mean come on! How can these people be so blind?

          • And yet, Trump is more popular than former President Barack Obama, who won in 2008 with 69.5 million votes, and 65 million votes in 2012, vs – as you say – 70 million for Trump. Face it, nobody in this election voted for Biden. They either voted for Trump, or against him. The polls and the media predicted a landslide for Biden, and that didn’t happen. The fact that it’s come down to a squeaker in 5 states shows that Trump is far more popular than the media would have you believe.

          • Walton,
            Of the total votes tabulated thus far (subject to revision), Biden has received slightly less than 51%. That is a majority but does not rise to the level of a super-majority. I don’t see how any objective person could claim that 48% is “significantly less popular” than the alternative. It is a small margin that best illustrates how polarized the country has become, with the division largely reflecting the life styles of coastal urbanites versus the rest of the country.

            However, I have come to expect less than rational responses from you.

          • “It is a small margin that best illustrates how polarized the country has become, with the division largely reflecting the life styles of coastal urbanites versus the rest of the country.”

            And? A win is a win. Do we disenfranchise “coastal urbanites” v “the rest of the country”? Seeing as to how the former disproportionately “gives” while the latter disproportionately “takes”, why is one any more “American” than the other?

          • b.o.b.
            Where did I suggest disenfranchising any group. I was responding to I.W. who claimed that the vote demonstrated that Trump was “significantly” less popular than Biden. I was disagreeing with his ‘logic.’ Please try to keep up with the discussion if you are going to comment.

          • “Where did I suggest disenfranchising any group.”

            The only reason for mentioning coastal voters and the “rest of us” is to do so.. But I stand corrected, and am glad you agree that, even in our one national election, a vote is a vote, whether from the interior or from the coasts. Which, of course, invalidates the efficacy of the electoral college….

  6. The fat lady hasn’t sung yet. Too many inconsistencies in vote tabulation and voter validation have come to light that need to be properly answered. Biden may be the winner but the MSM saying so today is more of what they’ve been doing all along……. propaganda. Whoever wins let’s hope it’s convincing.

  7. Ancient writers maintained that representative governments last 200 to 250 years. That included Rome. Here, it has been fun. Where are we going?

    Tucker Carlson maintains that we are becoming an oligarchy, run without public input; voter fraud has proven that we have no power. Unfortunately, Tucker Carlson implies that Red China is a major part of this oligarchy that will govern us.

    Trump has stood in the gap, alone. He is not “obedient”.

  8. All I know is that you can get a 12 hour twitter ban for suggesting that words frequently used to describe Mr Trump are at least as easily applicable to Mr Biden, if not more so…

    All part of being a platform not a publication….. 😆

    • you can also get a 12 hr time out for responding to don lemon post about how the last 4 years were rough on him. call him a whiny little c*nt and banned in 30 minutes.

  9. Imagine the results were the reverse, we’d be hearing 24×7 how the fix was in and guarantee the “media” would be investigating full bore, as it is just crickets from ’em.

    After 4+ years of continual bad press there were still 70 million+ folks who chose freedom. In the end hope the Republican party builds on the gains made and doesn’t pick one of the “establishment types” to lead, time for the younger and much more diverse generation of conservatives to take the lead, and I say that as a middle aged “white” guy..

  10. Listening to PC-Prog media influence message loop: “No evidence of vote fraud.”?


    Just read this 2016 review of how to spot the tell-tale signs of vote rigging (yeah, they were talking about Gabon, Togo, and the Congo, but…it fits in Atlanta, Detroit, and Philly, too.):

    –Too many voters
    –A high turnout in specific areas
    –Large numbers of invalid votes
    –More votes than ballot papers issued
    –Results that don’t match
    –Delay in announcing results

    Pretty clear that 100% of those indications are present in this rigged election.

    Don’t give up. It ain’t over.

      • This is about Benford’s law which is used by financial auditors as a signal that numerical data may be made up. It’s based on the rather odd fact that legitimately acquired data will have first digits that follow a specific distribution with 1s being most common, 2’s second most, etc. Made up data tends to have a more uniform distribution or even a normal distribution. It is a reasonable indicator, but not proof of a problem. But it does give auditors/investigators a good idea of what data should be more thoroughly investigated. Interestingly, Bernie Madoff’s scam looked OK based on the first digit data, but the Benford law also looks at second, third and 4th digits as wells the first 2 and first 3 digits. Each has a particular expected distribution. Madoff’s data failed the second and first 2 digit tests.

        It might be interesting for someone to look at climate data from the alarmists using Benford.

  11. This was an unprecedented election in that Trump received 8MM more votes than in 2016 and still lost. What made the difference was our Covid response which kept our young people home with ballots mailed to them. Nothing else to do but vote. Without Covid and the lockdowns this never would have happened. Thanks to YouTube and other media, the conservative voices in social media were blocked. These are the two most powerful reasons in my opinion.

    • John
      “Nothing else to do but vote.”
      But surely you are not complaining that more people voted? Is high voter turnout not the life blood of any democracy. It should be as easy as it possibly for citizens to vote. It’s crazy that the US votes on a Tuesday anyway. It penalised the working class many of whom struggle to get away from work and wait in long cues. I think you will find mail in voting is going to become more prevalent going forward.

      • I agree that we should want as many legally voting as possible in the easiest way possible. I don’t agree with media censorship of certain political views. There were also verified voting machine problems that were corrected with a manual recount. If this is a more widespread problem with software “glitches”, then the results are currently suspect. I want the person who won the most real votes resulting in a majority of electoral votes to win the Presidency no matter who it is.

  12. Wondering if O’Biden will return Carbon Queen Jane Lubchenco, and her EDF/Pew monkeys back to NOAA?! If this absurdity of an election the press has declared decided, stands, the ocean privatization scam is won by the Euro wind farmers.

  13. I think that the Supreme Court will be ruling on the Illegal PA ruling by the Governor and PA Supreme Court which is illegal according to the US Constitution. Also WI, MI, NC, NV, and GA.
    But I have the feeling that the Supreme Court itself will be intimidated by the Main Stream Media and the Deep State DC, and not want the riots that would result. So the result of their rulings will be that Biden/Harris will be installed. – sorry

    – JPP

  14. Trump can lawfare all he wants. Joe Biden IS going to be inaugurated Jan 20.

    This used to be a good science blog. It’s really gone downhill.

    • Yeah, and Hillary Clinton was President the last four years.

      Trump first tries lawfare.

      If that doesn’t work, he asks the governors to ignore the fraudulent election results and send Republican electors instead.

      If that doesn’t work, a contested election goes to Congress, which likely votes for Trump because more states are Republican than Democrat.

      Worst case, it all ends up in the Supreme Court, where RBG decided to die just in time to be replaced by a constitutionalist.

      Or Trump can simply announce that the election was a fraud and he’s staying in the White House until the electoral system can be cleaned up enough to have a legitimate election. It would be amusing to see him use the Color Revolution playbook against those who wrote it.

  15. The mount of video evidence of fraud is unbelievable, Yet the news media called the presidency, and people have gone crazy, bar lady @AOC wrote that trump supporters will pay for what they have done in the last four years, other crackhead DemoRats have said the same..

    I’m from england, and trump is a breath of fresh air from the normal cancerous lying thief politicians.

    • “The mount of video evidence of fraud is unbelievable”
      OK let’s see it? Saying it doesn’t count.

        • Sorry but none of that holds any water. Even if a few of those articles are real (and I seriously doubt it) there is no way on God’s earth they will change this election by the hundreds of thousands of votes Trump would need.

        • Scissor
          “A swing of around 40,000 votes in the right states would given Trump victory.”
          With all due respect, that is just not going to happen.

  16. What about the QFS blockchain encryption code allegedly attached to all the genuine ballot papers. Is this visible? If not, is there a simple hand-held device that will display it?

  17. Us Brits stand agog when we look at the US electoral process. For us this is mostly done and dusted on the night, with a few constituencies declaring the next day. Only postal votes received up to voting day are counted. The results of each constituency is announced by a returning officer, not the media.

    The election takes normally no more than 4 weeks from start to finish.

    Power is transferred on the night of the election if a clear decision is made.

  18. This is my explanation for that almost unbelievable “result”
    I dislike many aspects of Trump’s presidency – the bufoonish behaviour, the crudity, the poor English used, and the unnecessary repetition etc. on social media. However, overall I support him because of the results he has achieved, and the great decisions he has made relative to climate, international agreements, etc. However, I know of many people who would agree with my comments about his shortcomings, but know nothing of his political achievements. So they judged purely on his poor presentation, and supported the Dems. Almost unbelievable, but not quite! For me, he was a wonderful breath of fresh air in a strange political situation, and above all he saw through the lies of the Global Warming fraudsters.

    • Mike,
      Why is it unbelievable? Trump was behind by 8 percent in the polls. And had a popularity rating in the
      low 40s. Do you really think that any president who presided over the deaths of over 300 000 citizens from an infectious disease is likely to win re-election? Elected leaders get blamed for economic depressions and other national disasters whether or not they were actually at fault. Trump losing is not surprising at all.

  19. As an Oz I am pretty ignorant of US politics and law. However:

    There is not much being said about the PA Supreme Court changing the law for voter returns from ‘must be received by 8PM on election day’ to ‘have to be postmarked on or before election day and can be received up to 3 days after the election day’ (my paraphrasing). This allows for the suggestion that many mailed votes were stamped with dates earlier than they were received.

    Trump and Co appealed this months ago (apparently) as it is against the Federal Constitution for the legal system to make the law as this is the role of the elected representatives.

    What opinions are there for if/when the Federal Supreme Court, with Judge Barrett on the bench, get around to deciding if PA voting law is valid or not?

    There is also talk/videos of people claiming watermarking of ballot papers will be the undoing of the Democrats and that the National Guard is already going through states to arrest perpetrators of fraud.

    Who to believe??????

    • Believe Nancy Pelosi: “We still have many arrows in our quiver”.
      That’s the essence of a Democratic democracy.

    • Google translate from Italian:
      I hope that the truth emerges, and that he uses it to show it to the world …

      I hope the same, although the truth may not be enough.

  20. Biden won because he had a greater public mandate, via a clear majority, if you don’t like democracy then there are alternative places to live such as North Korea or Cuba.

    • The U.S. is not a democracy. The people do NOT elect the President. I certainly hope you are not an American because if you are you should know this.

    • Sorry your civics is lacking we don’t live in the democracy, we live in a Representative Republic ruled by a constitution. The democracy you want is called mob rule, if you get what you we will be like North Korea of Cuba.

      • “Sorry your civics is lacking we don’t live in the democracy, we live in a Representative Republic ruled by a constitution.”

        Uh, ok. But Biden won, even when encumbered by that vestige of fealty to slave states, the electoral college. I.e., what you confuse with a “Representative Republic”.

        • bigoilbob,

          ‘Winning’ should be all players following the rules. If one of your football teams fielded extra players and won, is that OK by you? I don’t think the majority of football fans would accept that situation and neither should you for voting.

          It appears the Dems had many extra players for their ‘win’.

          See for an explanation of how frail your voting system is

        • That’s a simplistic and biased view.

          The electoral college was primarily to protect small states like Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Hampshire, (at the time) New York, as well as Delaware, SC, Georgia, against being ruled by Virginia, Massachusetts, and Pennsylvania.

          Together with the Senate having equal representation for all states, the Electoral College protects us against the tyranny of the majority and forces important decisions to take into account the concerns of all regions, rather than being exclusively focused on the interests of large cities.

          Yes the issue of slavery complicated the negotiations. But the controversy was less a concern for election of the president than for representation in Congress. The EC simply reflects the compromise made on slavery in the representation in Congress.

          Had there not been slavery, it would still have been the founders’ desire to limit the passions of the public and to protect the interests of small states. The same motive explains electing senators in three cohorts so that in no election can more than one third of the Senators be thrown out of office.

          • You are right. The Electoral College and the Senate representation were concessions to the smaller colonies to get them to ratify the Constitution. Without those concessions, those colonies would never have ratified it. It had little to do with slavery and the south. As a resident of a small midwest state, I appreciate those protections for the minority states. Otherwise, California and New York would rule the entire country.

          • The electoral college and the senate are now imposing minority rule. Over 50% of the
            US population live in just 9 states and thus get only 18% of the senate votes. And the
            disparity is only predicted to get worse if you look at birth rates. How does California with 40 million people having the same number of senate seats as Wyoming with roughly 600 000 make any kind of democratic sense? Plus there is the fact that the 3 million people in living in Puerto Rico get no representation in the senate or a vote for the president despite being US citizens? It seems extremely unfair that if you move from Texas to the UK for example you still get to vote but not if you move to Washington DC.

          • I already explained why I am in favor of what you prefer to call minority rule. It is to ensure broad consensus and prevent the country being dictated to by California and New York.

            The best outcome would be to amend the Constitution to allow secession. Then give California and New York freedom from their bondage under “minority rule”.

            It would be so wonderful to see them go!

          • I already explained why I am in favor of what you prefer to call minority rule.

            Gee whiz Rich, you sound like a progressive with all your talk of protecting the minority!

          • Perhaps you should read Federalist No. 68. Hamilton explains exactly why there is an electoral college and why they chose to elect the President in this way. The larger states with their larger cities have more electoral votes than smaller states so it is not so much that the small states are protected. The electoral college is a temporary body chosen by the people of each state for the sole purpose of electing the President. The purpose was to have a Presient that has broad appeal across all areas of the Country instead of just being popular in a small area.

          • The purpose was to have a Presient that has broad appeal across all areas of the Country instead of just being popular in a small area.

            No. The purpose you claim was never the purpose.

            “The process of election affords a moral certainty, that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications. Talents for low intrigue, and the little arts of popularity, may alone suffice to elevate a man to the first honors in a single State; but it will require other talents, and a different kind of merit, to establish him in the esteem and confidence of the whole Union, or of so considerable a portion of it as would be necessary to make him a successful candidate for the distinguished office of President of the United States. It will not be too strong to say, that there will be a constant probability of seeing the station filled by characters pre-eminent for ability and virtue. And this will be thought no inconsiderable recommendation of the Constitution, by those who are able to estimate the share which the executive in every government must necessarily have in its good or ill administration. Though we cannot acquiesce in the political heresy of the poet who says: “For forms of government let fools contest That which is best administered is best,” yet we may safely pronounce, that the true test of a good government is its aptitude and tendency to produce a good administration.”


          • sycomputing November 7, 2020 at 8:49 pm
            “No. The purpose you claim was never the purpose.”

            You quoted from Federalist no.68 but do not seem to understand its meaning:
            “the little arts of popularity, may alone suffice to elevate a man to the first honors in a single State; but it will require other talents, and a different kind of merit, to establish him in the esteem and confidence of the whole Union, or of so considerable a portion of it as would be necessary to make him a successful candidate”

            This is exactly what I said it means. The intent was to elect someone with broad appeal across the entire nation.

          • This is exactly what I said it means. The intent was to elect someone with broad appeal across the entire nation.

            Even when taken out of context, as you’ve done, your quote bolsters my argument, not yours.

            “Talents for low intrigue, and the little arts of popularity” cannot but evidence Hamilton’s low view of both ad hominem rhetoric and the notion of popularity, or “broad appeal,” as you’ve used it.

            This premise is bolstered by the next part of his phrase: “but it will require other talents, and a different kind of merit, to establish him in the esteem and confidence of the whole Union…”

            “But” here obviously means, “in spite of,” rather than, “in addition to.” The conjunction itself is meant to contrast the former argumentative phrase with the latter.

            Hamilton would likely respond to you by saying, “If by ‘broad appeal across the entire nation’ you mean the ‘broad appeal’ of the electors chosen by each state legislature to cast the final vote for the Chief Magistrate, then we’re in agreement.” But I don’t think that’s what you mean.

            The electors aren’t required to cast a vote for the candidate chosen by the majority of the people in each state. This was the point of the EC, as Hamilton’s argument in 68 clearly lays out. Hamilton, et al., didn’t want individuals mesmerized by rhetoric (i.e., the “broad appeal” of the Mob across the nation) to have the final say in who was chosen as Chief Magistrate. Thus that final decision lay at the feet of electors chosen by the state legislatures, who are not required to vote in the same way as the majority in their state voted. In theory, the electors of each state could overcome the current progressive hatred that led Mob Rule to choose Biden/Harris over the incumbent President. In other words, they could vote against the “broad appeal of the entire nation.” Again your argument seems obviously contradicted by these facts.

            In addition, Hamilton is very clear as to the intent and purpose of the EC:

            “The process of election affords a moral certainty, that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.”

            “Broad Appeal” cannot effect the above purpose, as this most recent election (and many in the past, e.g., Jimmy Carter) surely proves. Hamilton’s own words contradict you.

            “It will not be too strong to say, that there will be a constant probability of seeing the station filled by characters pre-eminent for ability and virtue.”

            Again, this not from the “broad appeal” of the Mob across the nation, as you’ve claimed, but rather from the careful consideration of individuals in state legislatures who choose electors that may, if they choose, override the vote of the Mob when the Mob chooses unwisely. For example, when the Mob chooses out of Hatred, as this Mob has done in voting *against* the incumbent, rather than *for* the challenger.

            Clearly then, “broad appeal across the entire nation” is not at all in view when we consider Hamilton’s arguments carefully.

          • The small states protection derives from the EC elector count mirroring representation in Congress, which with its equal representation in the Senate means that the EC is a feature like the Senate, providing assurance to all regions that the President will consider the interests of the whole country. Without these features, the Constitution would not have been ratified.

            To undo it, it would only be just to release all states from perpetual union, providing a process for secession. Rescinding this feature without allowing the states to leave the Union would be akin to a mortgage borrower signing a binding agreement to repay a loan in return for title to the home, then subsequently the bank unilaterally retains the title but continues to enforce the loan terms.

            It is certainly also correct to say that the founders were very dubious of giving direct decision-making to the public. I will concede that this aspect of the EC is no longer functional. The idea that wise heads would choose a president from among many worthy candidates, with the people only choosing which wise heads from their state would make that call. There were no parties in 1787 and the hope was to avoid “factions”, but that was not a success, obviously. Now instead of having prominent citizens choose candidates, we have direct voting in primary elections, followed by direct voting for a “ticket” that has pledged electors.

            Nowadays the idea of an elector not voting for the candidate to whom they were bound is called a faithless elector, which is kind of the opposite of the original intent.

            Let’s not forget that the original intent of the Senate was to have the state legislatures appoint senators, another example of where the founders distrusted direct democratic rule. Personally I think it was a mistake to enact the 17th amendment that changed that rule. It was a “reform” of the original Progressives whose primary goal was to dismantle the checks and balances that frustrate revolution.

            Their goal was to create an all-powerful central government where states, if they continued to exist at all, would be mere administrative subdivisions, forced to follow one approach to local government throughout the continent. Instead of having to get 50 governments to agree, where people who live in your town or nearby are going to be voting, they want unelected experts in Washington to decide what’s best for us and then the rarified elite national politicians will implement the policies where nobody out in the provinces have anything to do with it except to comply.

            This may sound familiar to subjects of the EUssr.

          • “To undo it, it would only be just to release all states from perpetual union, providing a process for secession.”

            Why not? That’s how we got started 244 years ago…

          • The idea that wise heads would choose a president from among many worthy candidates, with the people only choosing which wise heads from their state would make that call.

            The people haven’t been doing a very good job of choosing “wise heads”.

            Their goal was to create an all-powerful central government where states, if they continued to exist at all, would be mere administrative subdivisions, forced to follow one approach to local government throughout the continent.

            It would appear they have, for all practical purposes, succeeded.

          • sycomputing November 8, 2020 at 7:24 am :

            “Hamilton would likely respond to you by saying, “If by ‘broad appeal across the entire nation’ you mean the ‘broad appeal’ of the electors chosen by each state legislature to cast the final vote for the Chief Magistrate, then we’re in agreement.” But I don’t think that’s what you mean.”

            No. it is exactly what I mean. No 68 addresses the reasoning behind having electors choose the President so it is all about having a broad appeal to those electors around the nation.
            ““But” here obviously means, “in spite of,” rather than, “in addition to.” ”

            That is not correct. The words following “but” are “it will require”. This is clearly addressing the need for additional requirements that go beyond low intrigue and little arts of popularity that would be sufficient to win in a single state.

        • You know if you don’t like the electoral college, you can always try to call for a constitutional convention to get rid of it. Of course, any amendment to the constitution must be ratified by 3/4ths of the states, most of which benefit from the electoral college, since they are not California or New York.

          • “You know if you don’t like the electoral college, you can always try to call for a constitutional convention to get rid of it.

            I do.

            “Of course, any amendment to the constitution must be ratified by 3/4ths of the states, most of which benefit from the electoral college, since they are not California or New York.”

            I agree that the low population, red, taker states that have disproportionate influence because of the EC, for no good reason, like it. They don’t want the gravy train to stop. Their made up reasons for doing so are totally fact free.

            Fact is, the EC has kept us 50 years behind the times since it was adopted..

    • Um no. There was massive voter fraud by the usual cheat’s method of mail-in ballots but magnified immensely as it had to be to overcome Trump’s clear popular mandate.

      • What “clear popular mandate”? Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 and is on track to lose it
        by an even larger margin this time round. He has also been behind in almost every poll since 2019.

        • All of which has no bearing on the election of the President but is used to fool simple minds into thinking Biden should have won without question.

    • And precisely when is the government going to announce this? Or at least present an example of such
      a watermarked ballot so that people know what to look for?

    • Sorry, this is ridiculous wishful thinking. Ballots are printed by state or local authorities, not the federal department of homeland security. I think that must be correct that DHS could not have been involved. Not that I trust them, but common sense says this is disinformation.

      Not only is it impossible that DHS could arrange this, but also does anyone understand what a blockchain watermark would do? It could only foil fraud if duplicate serial numbers were found. If legitimate ballots were used fraudulently (as they surely were), the “watermark” would make them appear legitimate. Obviously they cannot encode the voter id because that would negate the secrecy of the ballot. And even then what would that prove, unless the person could be proven to be ineligible to vote? But again, if they made the ballot identifiable to the voter so that they could know how each person voted, that would be a violation of the constitution in itself.

      • Not to say that states might not include forgery-resistant microprinting on their ballots to be able to detect fake copies, but the theory would then be that the Dems running those states keep the microprinting secret from the Dems running the voter fraud. What sense does that make?

  21. I thought, and hoped for truly, that we would not relive the year 2000 election. Yet it comes again and it seems to me that the democrat party has spent the last two decades practicing ways to get back at the republican party. Donald Trump is often a boor but he did do many good things for economic growth, racial reconciliation, and peace-over-war, which the establishment politicians of both parties had fastidiously avoided for generations.

  22. “…Most of our readers realize that today’s media pronouncements are meaningless and we are in for a month or more of lawfare.

    Stay calm, breathe, and have faith…”

    Thanks for that reminder. DEEP breath.

  23. Us Brits stand agog when we look at the US electoral process. For us this is mostly done and dusted on the night, with only a few constituencies declaring the next day. Only postal votes received up to voting day are counted. The results of each constituency is announced by a returning officer, not the media.

    The election takes normally no more than 4 weeks from start to finish.

    Power is transferred on the night of the election if a clear decision is made.

    • Yes, and don’t forget that counting takes place in public halls under the watch of observers and cameras.

  24. Read Jonovas post on Benfords law.
    Clear and strong indications of fabricated numbers for Biden.

  25. This is GREAT ! Really !

    History in the making. This does not happen often enough!

    The Electoral College process after Nov. 3 runs from Nov. 4 through January 6.
    Nov. 4 to Dec. 23 is for “counting popular votes and filing certificates of ascertainment”.

    Dec. 8th is the “Safe Harbor” deadline … the deadline for “conclusive results” … no contested results allowed.

    Dec. 14th is the day of the Electors Vote in each state.

    It does not end there!

    Dec. 23rd is the deadline for Certificates Delivered to Designate Officials.

    The REALLY BIG DAY is January 6th, Joint Session of Congress to Count Electoral Votes and Declare Election Results with the Vice President presiding! Challenges and Objections to individual state’s results can be made and debated. Both House and Senate, after debate, will vote to accept or reject any Objection.

    I’m stocked up on Popcorn and plenty of Dry London Gin and various “flavorings” to watch the proceedings.

    Ya Ho ! 🙂


    Ref.: “The Electoral College: A2020 Presidential Election Timeline”, Congressional Research Service,

  26. Currently:

    – this was the first US election with mass mailed-in ballots, unsolicited in several swing states. One can reasonably expect that such a shift in voting method will throw up anomalies. It should be incumbent in a properly functioning society to analyse and understand those anomalies rather than cover them up.
    – the Wisconsin voter turnout of nearly 90% is crazy (the average for this election looks to be around 67%)
    – swing states have large numbers of voters who voted for Biden but not for any of the senators/ reps/ local Dem politicians (PENN 98k; Georgia 80-90k; AZN – 42k; Michigan 70 – 115k; Wisconsin – 63k). Overall, the absence of voting down the ticket happened 3% of the time previously, but 18% here
    – this is an election where Trump overperformed on the popular vote by a massive margin compared to 2016; Republicans over-performed on winning seats, but Trump still lost despite winning very close to the same number of votes as those Republicans on the down-ticket
    – there are several Milwaukee precincts with voter turnout over 100%
    – counting votes without poll watchers present strongly suggests cheating. The big voting dumps in Michigan and Wisconsin happened around 4am (UK time) after they had announced they were stopping for the night and Republican poll watchers disappeared
    – the big voting dumps for Biden defy belief probabilistically. More likely that a monkey would have written a Shakespeare play in that time
    – multiple witnesses are testifying to various aspects of voter fraud/ poll watcher intimidation
    – all the IT ‘glitches’ favoured Biden. Again, from a probability standpoint, this is really unlikely
    – Biden got more votes than Obama 2008. He got more black votes than Obama in some swing states, while underperforming Obama for this demographic everywhere else
    – some analytical tools that I don’t fully know (Benford’s Law) suggest anomalous voting
    – votes counted days after the election finished are what ‘won’ it for Biden. Almost as if they ballot-harvested; stopped counting on election night once they knew how many of those votes to use; dumped those votes or got them into the system in the days after the election

    There’s plenty there to warrant a proper investigation.

    • mdman

      Typical reaction reminding me what I use to name ‘pseudoskepticism’.
      All guessing, no real proof.

      ” There’s plenty there to warrant a proper investigation. ”

      Good luck / Bonne chance / Viel Glück
      J.-P. D.

    • mdman- I am curious about the source for the comment “– swing states have large numbers of voters who voted for Biden but not for any of the senators/ reps/ local Dem politicians (PENN 98k; Georgia 80-90k; AZN – 42k; Michigan 70 – 115k; Wisconsin – 63k). Overall, the absence of voting down the ticket happened 3% of the time previously, but 18% here” since it makes little sense that people would only vote for the president and nothing else. I would like to look at this in more detail.

      • When you are in a hurry to obtain more presidential ballots, its your only choice. Down voting created ballots takes time.

  27. Just read claims today that thousands of witness signatures were filled in by WI vote counters. That is illegal to do and by law the ballots do NOT count.

    • Claims. Clearly you know nothing of Wisconsinites. We may breed serial killers in this state, but we are not abjectly blind to any kind of corruption and follow the rules and process to root it out when we do find it. The mere idea of counters filling in signatures is laughable and quite disgusting to even consider. Biden won our state and it was a hard damn win for those that supported him. Even suggesting that win was not a good fight and resulted in cheating would get you “lost in the North Woods” or drowned in the Lake around here. So take your little conspiracy theories and claims and leave, there’s the door, don’t let hit whack you on the butt on your way out. Those that supported Biden and those that supported Trump are all part of OUR community and we recognize these are our people, and our people stand together even when we disagree.

      Before you go attacking more states, you better know what that states’ culture is first.

      • So take your little conspiracy theories and claims and leave, there’s the door, don’t let hit whack you on the butt on your way out.

        Looks like self-righteous ad hominem might not be the best option until this matter is confirmed or not:

        Administrative changes in Wisconsin election put tens of thousands of votes in question

        “Wisconsin Statute 6.87(6d) stipulates that any ballot ‘may not be counted’ if it is missing the address of the voter’s witness. The Wisconsin Elections Commission in August issued a directive to voters that reaffirmed that statute: ‘If [the witness signature and address] is missing, your ballot will not be counted,’ the directive read.

        Then in mid-October, the Wisconsin Elections Commission issued a directive to the state’s county clerks appearing to give them the authority, in contravention of state law, to fix incomplete (or ‘spoiled’) ballots that are missing witness signatures.

        ‘Please note that the clerk should attempt to resolve any missing witness address information prior to Election Day if possible,’ the directive states, ‘and this can be done through reliable information (personal knowledge, voter registration information, through a phone call with the voter or witness). The witness does not need to appear to add a missing address.’

        Retired Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Michael Gableman, told local radio station 1130 WISN this week that the statute is ‘very, very clear. If an absentee ballot does not have a witness address on it, it’s not valid. That ballot is not valid.'”

        Before you go attacking more states, you better know what that states’ culture is first.

        Do you mean this culture, from later in the same article?

        “The Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty had argued that the Wisconsin Elections Commission was bound by law to remove the voters whose addresses it could not verify. The commission had asked to delay the removal until after the election, citing concerns that some voters might be improperly removed from the rolls.

        A circuit court judge had ruled last year that the elections commission was required to remove the tens of thousands of voters that had been targeted for removal. The commission at the time refused to do so, leading to their being held in contempt of court.”

  28. The fix was in months ago.
    That’s why Biden didn’t need to campaign.
    It’s all over folks, too many higher-ups are Democrats, the evidence is shredded and the media will never insist on an investigation. They were are smiles covering the story today since they now get a 4 years vacation.
    There will never be a Republican president ever again

    • “..the evidence is shredded and the media will never insist on an investigation.”

      You’re goin’ full Reynolds wrap bonnet here. Total Got proof?

  29. And on Jay-Z’s Tidal streaming service, the main playlist (that we cannot remove from view) is called “Here comes the Sun again – the US has spoken”, obviously celebrating Biden’s “victory”. From day one Trump has been hated by the same globalist-atheistic System that cannot be beaten.

    Dark days lie ahead, indeed. May they all enjoy the taste of Bolivarianism now.

  30. In the US people are focused on the Trump Biden Farce & covid19.
    In UK & Europe people are focused on the Brexit Farce & covid19.

    You have to wonder… what are the puppet masters doing now behind the curtain ???

  31. There are many stories of cheating on the elections and some arguments to disprove or explain.

    Dead people voting; or fabricated votes in Michigan, this is supposedly a glitch in the system and the people of the list too old to be alive didn’t really vote their identically named descendants did.

    More people registered for voting than actually living in the region:
    this isn’t the sign of a good, well maintained system but doesn’t necessarily indicate fraud

    Trump’s observers not allowed to do teir job:
    if this happened, then this cannot be explained away, it’s a problem wherever this happened.

    Some voting system counting rep votes as if they were dem votes, in Michigan
    Yes this seems to be a problem if it really happened, but the extent of this happening is probably very limited.

    Can Trump legal team do something about all this? Did these really take place? What is the extent of any of this if it did take place? Is it enough to change the outcome of the election of us president?

  32. Why is the ENSO meter swinging left for Biden? Is there any decency?
    More suspicious “surface” adjustments?

  33. Like it or not, Biden is in. We need to get over that and look forward to watching him fail to change the climate.

    • What on Earth makes you think that this is in any way related to, or pertaining to, the climate? Good grief man… get a grip!

      • You’re a bigger dullard than your past comments led me to imagine.

        Why are “we” (daring to speak for the majority here) so concerned about Biden and either enamored of Trump, or accepting of him despite serious concerns? One very big reason is policy on climate. Sure we’re also wise enough to oppose communism, but the common thread I dare say for every single one of “us” is climate policy.

        And that’s how climate is extremely relevant here.

      • Biden did say today that he has a clear mandate to fix climate change and systemic racism. I thought coronavirus was his laser focus on day one.

      • ”What on Earth makes you think that this is in any way related to, or pertaining to, the climate? Good grief man… get a grip!”

        Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Wow!

    • That looks like crap database design to me. The date of birth column has ridiculous stuff in it. This means that for certain some dates are wrong, but by implication that none of the dates can be trusted. So how can eligibilty to vote be established? And if the temporal data is corrupted, what other data as well?

  34. There is ALWAYS some amount of fraud in elections. The questions here are did more than the usual occur, and can anyone prove it?

    Since states control elections and many of those states have no intention of cooperating in the search for fraud, so it is doubtful much of it will be uncovered. It is unfortunate that one party seems intent on using fraudulent means to increase their margins at any cost to the integrity of elections. I hope I am wrong, but I think I will be proven right.

    Mail-in ballots are a free-ticket to massive voter fraud. Was there massive voter fraud? – we will likely never know for certain. We should as a nation work to reduce fraud, but as long as a party in power (in any branch) benefits from it nothing will happen.

    I am waiting for the Supreme Court packing that is about to start. They will likely add 3 or 4 new justices to the court in order to own that branch of the government as well. *IF* this occurs it will demonstrate that a party feels unconstrained in their grab for power. The good news here is the Senate has to confirm and that branch is not owned by the democrats. Maybe in 2 more years…

    This election was lost by Trump – he just cannot shut up and act with maturity. I really cannot stand the man, but I can’t argue with many of his policies. A little self-control would have gone far.

    Biden is a joke. We might as well have elected Harris. I honestly doubt Biden will not be declared incompetent per senility before the 4 years are up. At least it isn’t Hillary in office.

    One good thing could still happen – the House might finally get rid of Pelosi as Speaker. It’s hard to imagine anyone who could do a worse job.

    • Robert,
      By some I guess you mean something like 31 cases between 2000 and 2014. More recently people
      found that you are five times more likely to be struck by lighting than for a ballot to be fraudulent.

      Elections in the USA are done fairly and without widespread corruption. That is something to be
      celebrated even if it means that your preferred candidate doesn’t get elected.

    • Supreme Court packing would require majority votes in both the Senate and House. It could happen, but is probably not likely.

  35. Interesting days.
    Of course the media has to call it for Biden and of course the Democrats must claim victory..
    For time is not on their side.
    As these results are scrutinized,this narrative will collapse.
    Funny how,every so called outlandish claim made by President Trump about the corrupt actions taken against him and his supporters,has turned out to be true.
    And every accusation made against him has not.
    Accusations amplified and or manufactured by this very same media,that now demands we trust them.

    Due process and proper investigation will reveal the same old meme.
    Democrats Lying again.

    I would have said Democrats and Media but I find it impossible to separate them.

    For what kind of fools are so desperate for power,that they would destroy the foundation from which their ability to hold power comes?

    The number of people voting is almost impossible,did every Democrat get two votes?
    One by mail.
    One in person?

      • Politicizing it then complaining its political. Smfh. Giving a platform to every partisan stooge from Dellingpole to Driessen to nuts like Archibald. This site had never been about the science, if it was I wouldn’t need to come here.

    • “This web site should stay out of politics and should devote itself to science.”

      2 good ideas that this web site should adopt.

    • This web site should do whatever its proprietor wants. Leave it to big tech to tell people what to talk about.

      Now that we’ve cleared that up, there is one thing on my mind that I am not seeing discussed. In the (unlikely) event that President Trump wants to go quietly off into the sunset, it is not likely that the people who have been sandbagging him for the last 4 years are going to let him. I look for some attempt to find criminal behavior that can be charged…. This will not be healthy for the country. We may soon see whether Mr. Biden is sincere about bringing us together.

  36. Biden/Harris not my president. Stolen election. Will never forget this travesty by the Dems. What goes around comes around.

    • . . . get over it

      I’m thinking that’s exactly what will happen if he does lose. It’ll be quite the revealing sociological study if I’m right. You won’t see cities burn, for example.

      Contrast this with what happened in 2016, when cities did burn, property (that wasn’t theirs of course) was destroyed, lawlessness and mayhem ensued from the progressive left when Clinton lost. The loving leftist hyenas were let loose, and the TRUE Leftist psychology of hate, always bubbling like a witches cauldron in the background of addled minds, boiled over. That’s when the irrationality started. And it never ended.

      Hate breeds Stupid, and so we saw that Stupid raise its fist, gnash its teeth, and howl on November 3rd. No one voted FOR Biden/Harris, rather they voted AGAINST Trump. There weren’t enough supporters who loved Trump to overcome the hatred of the ilks of progressivism, even though it was close and more votes were cast in this election than ever before. A sad commentary but (more) proof of the irrationality of progressivism, this time not only as a logical system, but also in the very twisted psychology the philosophy brands with a hot iron into the minds of its adherents.

      It’s an interesting but predictable irony that the Beautiful People should be overcome with the very emotion they decry in others. But these *are* Liberals. And this *is* the Hypocrisy of Liberalism.

      If Trump loses, he lost to the pure, evil hatred of the progressive left and nothing more or less than this. Thankfully, some have seen the light and understand their own best interest is not with those who promote a philosophy pillared upon racism, sexism, class envy, and beating people with their fists, with sticks, bottles, etc., when they don’t get their way:

      Trump Won Highest Share of Non-White Vote of Any Republican Since 1960, Exit Polls Show

      Trump’s strong Hispanic support befuddles Democrats, activists

      When all is said and done, I predict blacks too will have voted for Trump in numbers not seen for decades.

      Now, in addition to all of this GOOD news, there’s even BETTER news, 1) looks like the Senate is still ours, 2) we got some GOP girls coming in to help keep Biden/Harris who they always have been since this election started, Nobody’s:

      Recruitment push fuels record number of women in House GOP

      Rack ’em up and slap ’em down GOP ladies!

  37. Whoever cheats the best wins. It’s the American way.

    Sad but true. The democrats tend to cheat downstream (push invalid ballots into the system by the millions), the republicans tend to cheat upstream (get people off voting lists, make poll lines very long etc). I always hear the same from both sides “Well they cheat more than we do” or “We have to cheat to make it fair”.

    LMAO at the last one. That sums it up in one insane sentence.

  38. Thank you Charles, Anthony, WUWT for this Open Thread to allow people to “vent” then, hopefully, take a deep breath and continue breathing normally.
    (I’ve at least scrolled through all the comments so far. Everyone seems to behaving themselves! 😎

  39. According to US constitution it is the state legislature prerogative to set the rules for selecting electors. This power includes the manner of elections, results of elections or accepting the chosen electors. No one, including the state or federal judiciary can interfere.

    In the contested states, state legislatures are predominantly staffed by republicans. If they wish they can convene, nullify the elector elections (not the senate or the house elections) or if they wish appoint electors of their choosing. No one can say a thing if they choose one of these paths.

    If GOP roll over and accept these controversial outcome, it is their problem. Blame no one else but GOP.

    • It has also been decided by the SCOTUS(Bush v Gore) that state courts CANNOT change election laws. When they do, it is necessary that the SCOTUS step in and correct that illegal change.

      • Interestingly, some state secs annulled the requirement for witness signature for mail in voting. Despite the local statue asks for it. MN is one of these states.

        I believe SCOTUS will look at this unilateral breach of state constitution by individuals and require that (a) tossing out all mail in voting or (b) a new election be held in those states. Because the paper trail is now missing, recount is impossible.

        Of course this legal remedy requires that local GOP asks for a motion in front of the SCOTUS> I am not sure if they will ever do it. They seem to be rolling.





    545,561 ballots marked for Donald Trump were discovered in Joe Biden’s basement. This may be the turning point for Trump. And we wondered why old Joe was spending so much time in his basement, getting a huge number of “packages” delivered by UPS, FedEx and Amazon. This was only discovered when a secret service agent was carrying a box downstairs and accidentally dropped it on the stairs going down to the basement. … maybe this was not funny to you, but my wife always compares me to that famous comedian Rodney Dangerfield: “Does anyone else tell you that you look like Rodney Dangerfield?”

  41. Here is a 2016 BBC article listing some of the signs of vote-rigging.

    Funny how Trump got more votes everywhere …except for four Democrat-run cities.
    Funny how the same media that says the Russians fixed the last election say this one is fine.
    Funny how the 50-centers are saying Biden won before the states have even certified the results, never mind checked for fraud. Trying to stampede the weak-spined into something, perhaps?

    • Thats what happens every 4 yrs . Withing a few days of 2016 vote , it was called for Trump and he was visiting White House to meet with Obama.

      Very similar to now in that it was very close and 110,000 votes in 3 states decided winner. Not all votes had been counted then either .
      Now its probably more than 110,000 votes and is 5 states ( but doesnt include Florida which was so much more electoral votes.)

      • Whatever happens it means that the next president will have a very weak mandate, with a rep congress and dem house but a bit less blue than before. Donald got a lot done, but not the one thing that would have really mattered: an indepth review of climate pseudo science led by william Happer. It was successfully obstructed by ‘powerful political interest’.

        • Ed
          Without the cloud of probable fraud lifted for Biden, he will have no claim to a mandate. It all started with Pelosi saying “He isn’t MY president.” She established a precedent that all Trump supporters have a right to remind Democrats of.

          • “Without the cloud of probable fraud lifted for Biden, he will have no claim to a mandate. It all started with Pelosi saying “He isn’t MY president.” ”

            Citation, please….

          • An intemperate, hyperbolic, chant. Not by the speaker, not the official view, of ANY democratic group.

            Seems like the push is to validate Trump’s conflation of personal loyalty to him, with his valid claim to be POTUS, until late 1/21….

          • As you rightly say it is a chant, as for the official view , it was a official who made the chant ,to a live and televised audience, it becomes official, unless you can come up with a official view that dismisses the former.

          • “it was a official who made the chant ,to a live and televised audience.”

            Are you sure that you want to claim that what any elected official chants at a rally is the “official” stance of their party? Ponder before replying…..

          • Firstly B.o.b I never said she was elected did I, secondly you never answered my question in full, ( you need to ponder that) = were is the evidence that what she stated as a official was not the official line ,? Its a simple question.

            And she has been elected for many years in the past b.o.b

            Maxine waters was a elected official in the 35th district 2012,2014,2016, 2018.

            So Bob she spoke as a elected official during the time of the video

            So Bob because you put words into my mouth I never said,wrote, we find out maxine waters was indeed a elected official. Ponder that.

          • “were is the evidence that what she stated as a official was not the official line”

            You don’t seem to understand how these things work. It is YOUR claim that Maxine Waters was was stating an official Democratic Party position. Not mine. Your claim, your burden of proof.

            “”That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

            Christopher Hitchens

          • Yes bob she was a elected official and she spoke officially, now you dont think she spoke officially do you, I do so the burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise ,otherwise your talking nonsense, she was a elected official bob so what did I have to ponder? The fact you put words in my mouth? And undermined your ridiculous argument, like every democratic your wasting every ones time obfuscating the truth.

  42. Good job of proving that regardless of the evidence, people will believe what they want to believe. The right will believe the election should have gone to Trump. The left will believe there is a “climate crisis”. No amount of data and evidence will matter.

    • Different data. Climate is based on small numbers over 30 years and juiced by climate models which ‘simulate’ future climates using models they dont understand
      A vote is a vote is a vote. previous recounts only show a few hundred at most changes in the numbers for states with maybe a 1 million votes for a candidate.
      Some people have the fantasy that some counties can have a new election and a revote. Not mentioned in constitution and yes there have been disputed electoral slates from states before. As both houses of congress validate a states EC vote, the only choice is to accept the result or reject it. Trump needs Pennsylvania while Biden doesnt

  43. Florida will be wet with tears.
    The rule of law was destroyed in Poland. Don’t make this mistake in the US.
    Four years will pass quickly.

  44. The system itself looks incapable of properly dealing with fraud:
    1) Timing is to short for a proper investigation
    2) Shifting the burden of proof
    3) Lacks enough quality control

    Let’s start with shifting the burden of proof: a claim is made that “candidate X won the election” by the vote counters – usually the executive branch of the government. In normal scenarios it’s those that make a claim (especially – a legally important claim) that are obliged to prove it. But in the election process it’s the opposite – controllers of vote counting can just claim something. The elections system then approves it, unless someone outside of vote counters (eg unsatisfied candidate Y) proves the claim “candidate X won the election” to be false. Which is inappropriate not only because of the general rule of burden of proof, but also because the system doesn’t give candidate Y enough access to the data, and enough time to properly investigate.
    Normal investigations of a complex fraud can last months of years.

    Then there’s the quality control aspect. Since 20-th centaury we as civilization know that good Qality Assurance is necessary for things to work well. Like a circular process with a separate quality control team checking things out, finding flaws, returning to the product maker (a designer/engeneer/programmer if it is for design etc.) for eliminating errors, they eliminate errors, it goes to quality assurance again. Doesn’t enter the approved pipe unless it meet the norms. (Doesn’t mean it has to be perfect – eg. norms for some cheaper LCD displays allow some bad subpixels). In an election process you don’t have an infinite loop of QA, just some single recount perhaps even made by the same teams doing the first count (repeating their own errors).

  45. This is a world shattering event, something it might never recover from. It’s possibly the greatest fraud ever perpetrated in world history.

    This result emboldens Iran, unleashes the hostile politics and trade practices of the CCP, endangers Israel, puts another spanner in the Brexit negotiations. Not to mention the domestic implications for climate hysteria, renewables, over-zealous regulations and unfettered immigration.

    I thought Trump would win and that the polls were gaslighting the people until I looked at the betting organizations who had Biden at 1-2 and Trump at 6/4 to 15/8. While the polls are usually incorrect, the bookmakers cannot afford to be wrong, it was then I realized the fix was in. The Bookies have contacts inside all the money moving entities.

    Anyone thinking it can be put right in 4 years time is grossly mistaken. This mob will never release their grip on power from here on.

  46. Something completely different. Suppose Biden expires before inauguration day. I’m 70 myself and well aware that that you are a man of the day, that tomorrow is not at all a certainty. Joe looks rather frail sometimes. Will Harris become president, or will there be another election? Or what?
    Methinks Harris can’t be the president by default because if such would happen before the inauguration she is still citizen Harris and not the VP. Since the Don was voted out as it looks now, he could not continue. But perhaps Pence could until a new vote?

    • No, it would then be a case of no candidate receiving 270 electoral votes since dead winners cannot receive votes. That would throw the election of the president into the house per the constitution.

      Now you can see how our constitution was so well thought out by our educated forefathers. It’s a pity so many uneducated public students call for the elimination of the electoral college.

  47. Thanks to Diben’s victory, now the SRAS-COV2 is not dangerous anymore, despite tens of millions people dansing, embracing each other in crowded streets.

    It seems even that it’s now possible to attend an indor concert with tens of thousands of people without any risk of being infected.

    Conversely, attending to a Repuclican’s meeting or merely going outside to work or just a walk was very dangerous and millions of irresponsible people doing so has been infected putting at stake the national security.

    Now, thanks to Biden, it’s all over !

    Magical virus, magical Democrats !


  48. There is possibly a hint: I’ve heard of a Democrat mail ballot, that came in from a resident in Michigan who was born in ….

    1832 !!!

    With Ovomaltine, you don’t (vote) better … but longer! (a typical commercial here in Switzerland…)

  49. Wow, just wow. The Voter Fraud Believers have the same amount of irrationalism and emotionalism as Climate Believers do. Amazing.

  50. There is a major problem with the mass fraud theory. In PA, WI and MI, you are talking about hundreds of thousands of fake votes that had to be created. To do that would take an operation of dozens of people at least. You would need storage, transport, printing equipment, communications etc, all of which must be kept covert. People are not known for keeping secrets, so something on that scale could not operate without someone letting something out, or leaving some evidence. Obviously there was fraud on some small to medium scale, but the size required to achieved those kinds of numbers is industrial scale, and something would have gotten out. Far more likely is that the mass mail out of ballots allowed a lot of people who normally wouldn’t vote to vote, and 4 years of MSM propaganda has brainwashed a lot of people to believe we should vote for someone because of how they talk instead of what they do.

    • Sorry about your view on the first amendment, but the rest of your comment is cogent. Multiply the number of folks that needed to keep that secret by 100 and you have the international Dr. Evil conspiracy to foist AGW theory on the rest of us. All in the face of the Trumpian YUGE rewards that would accrue to anyone who told that secret, with proof, I might add…

      • b.o.b.
        There are no conspiracies necessary for people to be superstitious, to worship authority, or to uncritically accept what they are told by the Media. Roughly half the people in the US vote Democrat. No conspiracy is necessary to cause them to do so. Sometimes, schist just happens!

        • “There are no conspiracies necessary for people to be superstitious, to worship authority, or to uncritically accept what they are told by the Media.”

          Rejection of MSM “tells”, is your right, but should be accompanied by credible alternatives. These are almost always AWOL. This, not any fact free claim of “worshipping”, is why. after due consideration, we tend to agree with the WSJ, Atlantic, NYT, etc….

          • b.o.b.
            You said, “… we tend to agree with the WSJ, Atlantic, NYT, etc….” Speak for yourself. When I read something, I’m not swayed by who wrote it, but instead by if it makes sense and is supported by the facts that I’m aware of. Maybe your worshiping authority explains your left-leaning remarks.

          • “When I read something, I’m not swayed by who wrote it, but instead by if it makes sense and is supported by the facts…”

            Apparently not. Fact checking is always a good idea, but you’re not doing it. Rather, you’re tossing out facts based on the fact that they are reported by that biased MSM. What “facts” do you and Rudy bring to the table on this Dr. Evil voter fraud conspiracy?

            All hands on deck, both of you….

    • The big numbers come from election fraud, not voter fraud.
      As shown in the video(s) from “Liberal Hivemind” and others, the central database server in Frankfurt, run by a company in Spain, is too easily accessible.
      The under-votes can be ascribed the preferred candidate with simple change of query.
      Not a lot of people needed to manipulate as many votes you dare to before the fixes may appear obvious.

      This somehow reminds me of climate model and global temperatures for the globalists.

      • Each postal vote is checked against the voter database and the signature verified.

        The same ballots that unexpectedly supported republican house and senate candidates also supported Biden

        • Did you know that NOT checking signatures, on a national level, was one of the items in one of the Schumer/Pelosi Covid relief bills?
          How many states already don’t match signatures?

          Each legal, eligible voter has a right to have one and only one vote (if they choose to exercise that right).
          We need measures in place to ensure that each ballot is an on time legal vote.

          • Just a couple of examples of voter fraud convictions:

            Myron Cowher, Dmitry Kupershmidt
            Myron Cowher and Dmitry Kupershmidt were found guilty of attempting to rig a May 2014 election in the private community of Wild Acres Lakes. According to Wild Acres Property Manager Robert Depaolis, Cowher approached him and asked him to provide Cowher with ballots that were due to be mailed to property owners in the community who seldom voted, for the express purpose of filling out those ballots and guaranteeing victory for Cowher’s preferred Board of Directors candidates. Depaolis went to the state police, who surveilled a meeting where Depaolis handed over the ballots, catching Cowher in the act of filling out the mail-in ballots. He was arrested and subsequently convicted on 217 counts, including forgery, identity theft, and criminal conspiracy. His accomplice, Kupershmidt, was found guilty on 190 counts. Cohwer received a sentence of between 18 months and four years in a state correctional facility, and was ordered to pay a $10,850 fine. Kuperschmidt’s sentencing has been delayed due to a change in attorneys.

            Miguel Hernandez
            Miguel Hernandez visited an elderly woman shortly before the 2017 Dallas City Council election, collected her blank absentee ballot, filled it out, and forged her signature before mailing it back. Hernandez was the first person arrested as part of a larger voter fraud investigation in the Dallas area, stemming from claims by elderly voters that someone was forging their signatures and the return of nearly 700 mail-in ballots all signed by the same witness using a fake name. Hernandez faced a felony illegal voting charge, but pleaded to a lesser misdemeanor offense of “method of returning marked ballot.” He was sentenced to 180 days in jail and given credit for time served.

    • Where do you see the problem?
      1) It’s possible print millions of printed papers. Like printing books, money etc. in large numbers.
      2) Postal service is capable of delivering millions of letters. Or even millions of parcels.
      3) The cost of printing and delivering is not an issue in elections that cost literally billions of dollars for candidates.
      4) If you don’t believe in people – a lot of processes can be automated in modern era.

    • Please check out Tammany Hall (late 1700’s) “Political Club”. Their vote fixing was legendary. The Chicago vote fixing machine of mayor Daley was epic. You underestimate their resourcefulness. Doing things at large scales has NEVER been a problem. They have 200+ years of practice fixing elections.

      The old joke about north east democrats is “You can take the Democrats out of Tammany Hall but you can’t take the Tammany Hall out of the Democrats”.

      Read up the history on what cheating was KNOWN to have been done by those 2 organisations. Do you think they turned a new leaf and decided not to cheat? The Democrat political machine can, and does, regularly shift hundreds of thousands of votes.

  51. So trump has about 70million votes
    School me please
    How can all those voters put an economic squeeze on democratic interest

    • Thanks John.

      I saw all 44 minutes of “Patty Of 100 Percent Fed Up Tells About Her Challenges At TCF Center”

      Also saved it on a local HD, because, as she said in the video, this may not stay up for long and is already shadow banned.

      I used to love my regular visits to Santa Clara in California and even thought of moving there permanently. People and the countrysides were lovely, friendly and accepted all kind of lifestyles.
      So what Patty tells now in this video about the ugly attitude of the undemocratic democratic dictatorship is utterly depressing.

      I knew forty years ago that western Europe was moving that way, but I would never have thought this would have happened in the United States of America, which is looking to become Democratic Republic of America.

      • Carl
        I went to high school in Santa Clara, and graduated from San Jose State University. My tentative plans were to return to California when I retired. However, it is not the place I used to know and decided to just stay in the Midwest after retiring.

  52. Remember NOT MY PRESIDENT, Dopey Joe and Kamalahoe.

    It is good to be old and wise, soon it will be a good day to die.

  53. The cheating is blatant and backed by Marxist Guerrillas known as BLM/Antifa. Question is, will this be tolerated and will the GOP cave to prevent cities from burning?

  54. I haven’t read all these comments yet, but from what I’m hearing on television, the Republicans seem to be concentrating on the wrong thing, namely, they are filing lawsuits because Republican poll watchers were prevented from watching the vote count.

    Now, that is a legitimate lawsuit, but it won’t win Trump the election, because it does nothing to prevent the inclusion of the ballots recieved and counted after midnight on Tuesday.

    Any ballot received after midnight (or earlier in some States) are not legally eligible to be counted according to the various State election laws.

    The U.S. Constitution gives State Legislators the priority in setting how a State conducts its elections. The State laws governing this election say that the votes will be recieved up to election day, or postmarked by election day, and only those votes will be counted.

    So what the Republicans should do (and I don’t know that they are not already doing this, although they aren’t talking about it on tv) is to go to the U.S. Supreme Court and request that the Supreme Court enforce State voting laws which limit the counting of votes to election day.

    What the U.S. Supreme Court should rule is that the counting of ballots should be limited to those recieved on election day and that the vote count at midnight on election night should be the valid vote count of each State.

    In this case, Trump was ahead in Pennsylvania by about 600.000 votes at midnight on election night, and I don’t recall the figures for the rest of the Battleground States, but I think he was substantially ahead in four others and a tie in two others.

    So if they limit the vote counting to midnight on election night, then Trump wins handily.

    That’s the lawsuit the Republicans should be doing. That avoids allowing the Democrats to insert all those extra ballots in the mix after the election was over.

    There’s no way the legitimacy of these late votes can be established. So the count should be limited to the way the State laws set out, not by how a leftwing judge decided to overrule state law and allow extended voting. The State legislature decides election law, not a partisan judge in a partisan State and the U.S. Supreme Court should say so in no uncertain terms.

    Thank God, Trump and the Republcians managed to get Justice Barrett appointed. Now the Court has a five/four conservative majority. Keep in mind that the activist Justice Roberts sided with the three other Leftists on the Court and allowed the partisan Pennsylvania judge’s ruling extending the voting and counting, to stand, which has now resulted in all this turmoil.

    The new U.S. Supreme Court should rectify this error and require State election laws to be followed.

    • I agree with your point about the illegitimacy of late votes. Use of snail mail should be no excuse, that should come with the responsibility to use that voting option early enough for everything to be counted election day. Unfortunately, there is no idea so bad, divisive, or stupid that it can’t spread around the political world like a fad and be accepted these days.

      Here in Saskatchewan where I am, it was said they had many more late votes than usual to count in our recent election, and this is in a province where the generality right wing government is quite secure currently, nothing big at stake. So, here at least, this isn’t cheating, it’s just the willingness of authorities to accept a bad idea.

      Really late votes to count! How great for democracy is that! Under the wisdom of the current fad in vote counting, Trump’ has likely lost, however, if he asks enough awkward questions, will that improve procedures for future elections? Say, if awkward questions cause enough heads to explode, maybe they can fight the good fight and impeach Trump before January, how about that?

      • “Use of snail mail should be no excuse, that should come with the responsibility to use that voting option early enough for everything to be counted election day.”

        Since the rules told us when we could submit these ballots, and since most/all states allowed same day submission, then there is no irresponsibility in voting per those rules. Since it’s over a month between e day and electors meetup, there is NO compelling reason for “everything to be counted election day.”

        Bigger pic, who cares? All states had time limits on ballot receipt, which is why deJoy attempted to suppress Dem votes by sanding up the mail processing machinery. The ideal should be voters who are both allowed until e day to decide, AND to submit their votes in the manner best for them. The system (mostly) worked…

        • Postmarked election day, then they count and are counted.
          This year in some places, ballots were allowed with postmarks AFTER election day despite state law.
          Late ballots were also found mixed in with one time ballots in another state.
          That’s just one of the issues this year.

          • “This year in some places, ballots were allowed with postmarks AFTER election day despite state law.”

            News to me. Might very well be true, but if so, then there must be a documented link to it. Since this is YOUR claim, would you please provide the referenced link?

  55. George Carlin had an excellent line about American Politics. “We like our BS up close so we can all get a good whiff of it!”.

    We know our politicians lie and we know they are not untouchable by any corporation, lobbyist, PR image, and their ilk. None of this is new. We already know this. Trump ran on the platform that he was “just a regular guy” when everyone knew that was BS. He was no where near a “regular guy”, he was born with a platinum spoon in his mouth and inherited more money than most countries GDP could even realize at the age of 3. He told everyone he was a businessman….and that I’m sure he thinks he is, just not a successful one given his bankruptcies, failed business models, shilling for products on TV to make money and his enormous debt. But he was never was a politician and there is the crux. You see, Trump has always “been on top” or considered himself to be to others (internally I think he struggles greatly with the demons of living up to his father and grandfather, and that does have bearing), so he has never had to deal with politicians on a day to day basis to understand their lies and how to use BS to get things done. He understood how to rob Peter to pay Paul, but never figured out how to get Joseph to do it for him (he was too busy barraging Thomas).

    Biden on the other hand is a politician. He’s been in the game a long time and he has many friends and enemies made along the way. He understands the purpose of American BS and why it is so important. He also understands how to play the game–for which at his experience, he can write the rules. This is something Trump does not have because it takes years to acquire just how politics works and how to manipulate the rank and file. And it is something IMO he never understood he needed to acquire, he thought it was like a TV production with him as the star, not realizing the true star is behind the camera.

    The simple truth is: America voted for our BS vs an outright liar. That’s it. Trump lies and even in his narcissitic mental capacity of half truths, he never stood a chance to be a true BS’er because he failed to take into consideration that which we hold–a good whiff of that BS. He’s used to hiding it, burying it and quite frankly, all of it “behind closed doors”. Which in his platform, appealed to a lot of people. Carlin even had the best ending to his opening on politics. With a known BS’er people will point and say, “but at least he’s honest!” over being outright lied to, manipulated, and gaslighted (even though all of that occurs in politics).

    But Trump being Trump and being the narcissist that he is, he doesn’t get it. All of this tweeting conspiracy theories, gaslighting, name calling and attacking the 4th estate did the opposite of what he wanted it to do. But what it DID do is wake people up! And hopefully people will stay awake long enough to realize that we have gotten complacent, we have been too accepting of the smell of BS out of Washington, and that it is time to change.

    I believe that Trump was a disgrace to the Office of the President, but I also believe he was exactly what was needed for the people to wake up and take back their government by planning for succession. There are over 500K elected officials in this country, most of them have nobody running for them but the incumbent. Maybe with this amount of massive turnout for voting, people noticed how many offices on their ballots had only 1 name. And maybe, just maybe, they’ll think about that more than they used to and begin to realize that we do not have a political succession plan because we are not stressing the need for public office in our younger generations, what local, state and federal public servants can actually do to help the people of their communities. For far too long we’ve been turned off by headline grabbing federal swamp politics–so maybe, just maybe this inspired those that would never have thought to run for a local office might consider doing so in the future. And thereby ensuring our democracy continues with fresh blood. Trump will leave a stain on the office of President and one that won’t be scrubbed out so easily because the people need to remember why he appealed in the first place and start taking action to make sure we do not become so complacent again.

    If you want to change things, then run for office. The beauty of our government is that it is actually run by the people of the country–from our local treasurer to our President. Instead of searching social media for truth in lies, why not find out which office is vacant, which one is up for election in the Spring, which one you think you could do to serve if you so desire. Or talk to someone younger than you about what it means to serve as a public servant, get involved in your community. Republican, Democrat, Independent, Progressive, Liberal..what have you, they are ALL legal in the US. Because if we don’t bother, if we continue to bicker about who has more true American blood than the other, then we will lose our country all together. THAT is what is really at stake here and it is more than just 1 orange man in front of a camera. Trump did not deliver on anything he promised, instead we got a reality TV show that divided us into Red or Blue, Team Trump vs Team Everyone Else that we call names, well time to turn the TV off and get back to work.

    • Just Jenn
      Your false “closing statement” is evidence that you are not ” MENSA material”:

      Jenn blathers on and on and on … with hate in her voice … presenting this “brilliant” false conclusion: “Trump did not deliver on anything he promised, instead we got a reality TV show that divided us into Red or Blue, Team Trump vs Team Everyone Else that we call names, well time to turn the TV off and get back to work.”

      The truth, which has escaped your biased leftist mind, is that Trump delivered many things he promised, even while under harsh, unjustified character attacks and investigations since 2016.

      The Russian Collusion Delusion hoax, for one example, was created by leftist Hillary Clinton and promoted by leftist John Brennan.

      The impeachment “show trial” did not name ANY specific federal statutes that Trump violated, nor did it prove any wrongdoing, because it was just a Pelosi political show.

      And Joe Biden is the most corrupt man to ever run for president in American history. He actually confessed to extortion of the then Ukraine President in 2016, discussed on video in 2018, when Biden actually BRAGGED about HIS quid-pro-quo extortion criminal activity.

      Congratulations to your smarmy leftist friends in the mainstream media and social media for falsely dismissing strong evidence and witnesses about Hunter Biden and Joe Biden’s crimes … as nothing more than political smears. I wrote at least six articles on the subject, sin my politics blog (click on my name for the link– stray away Jenn, I just cleaned up there) since summer 2019. You apparently know nothing about the subject, and don’t care to know.

      Leftists manage to ruin everything they touch. They have ruined your ability to present data and facts about President Trump, leading a to logical conclusion, rather than spewing hateful left-biased character attacks, like a trained (Democrat) parrot. No offense intended to parrots.

    • ” Trump did not deliver on anything he promised, ”

      I guess over 200 conservative judges placed and 3 SC Justices confirmed are nothing delivered.
      I guess his roll back of Obama administration regulations are nothing delivered.
      I guess that his hard line approach to China is nothing delivered.
      I guess his building the border wall is nothing delivered.
      His reduction of the corporate tax rate was nothing delivered.
      I guess his middle class tax cut was nothing delivered.
      You really need to stop your blind hatred and get informed of the facts.

    • Run for Office, you say. As what? A businessman or a politician? You’ve already determined that businessmen make lousy politicians, but it is quite obvious that politicians make lousy businessmen – unless they are feathering their own nests – either by themselves or by proxy as Biden has done (IMHO) -(often with organisations/countries who do not have the prosperity of the USA in mind.

  56. Biden’s biggest accomplishment in 47 years of politics is 47 years in politics. If that is what we the people voted then we deserve what we get.

  57. Here is how I see it. President Trump won in a legitimate landslide. The evidence is his rallies.
    That forced the Dems to cheap on a massive scale. Evidence is shutting out of observers in Philly and Detroit. (There is a lot more, also).

    That forces the SCOTUS to step in. The PA late ballot decision is clearly unconstitutional. Butvthat alone does not rectify the situation. In PA, poll watchers are legally required. That means Philly mail ins get invalidated. That changes PA but not Michigan, Wisconsin, Georgia.

    What ScOTUS can do is declare the elections in suspect states invalid on 14th amendment grounds. That enables either of two solutions. 1. Orderthe state legislature picks the electors (Article 2§1.2)—those contested states all have Majority Rep legislatures. 2. Use Article 2§1.3, where the house votes for president with each state having one vote. The majority are republican.

    I do not think a do over order like was done in a congressional Carolina race is feasible; there is no constitutional provision for it for the presidency. Nor will simple recounts fix the fraud.

    • Rud, not you too! How are “his rallies” any sort of measured quantifiable data point? How can you abandon a scientific approach in one topic and expect anyone to take your work seriously in climate science? They can just say “the evidence is in the hurricanes” and ignore data.

    • Trump dopes not need Mich. He does need Georgia, Alaska and NC. If PA and Wisc get reversed that would mean Trump gets to 278. Even if Wisc does not reverse, Trump could be at 268 to Biden’s 270 and we would all have to wait to see if there are any electors who would change that, either way.

  58. It’s clear now that when Christopher Wrey made his racist comments that the biggest threat to America was white supremacists that he knew exactly what was getting ready to happen as in massive fraud.

  59. Jo Nova is having a field day cataloging possible fraud and errors. One or more posts a day. Here is the latest:

    I have done a bit of litigation support over the years, advising attorneys on the strengths and weaknesses of their arguments. Helped win a few big cases. Here is my method:

    In this case there is a lot of interesting stuff, with a lot more coming. The software glitch is especially interesting.

    The basic rule is this: A civil trial is always a crap shoot. Anybody who claims to know how this will turn out is kidding themselves. Anything can happen, so stay tuned.

    • Wohick
      Thanks for the PDF, I’ve started reading it and will finish it in the next day. Is there a specific reason you used Ford as an example ?

      There would have to be enough fraud to change the electoral college to favor Trump , and it would have to be proven to a court willing to be unbiased. I can’t see how that could be done with absentee ballots, and don’t know if the envelopes with the signatures were saved or kept attached to the ballots … but I suppose faulty or manipulated computer vote counting programs could affect most states.

      But … Other Republicans did well in the elections, in spite of the COVID recession, except for Trump. And he had been demonized by the leftist-biased media for five years … while Biden Crime Family criminal activity was covered up, so Trump did well under such negative circumstances.

  60. Years ago I told many friends and family how we will loose our freedom. 

    First, restrict speech. It started in education and has spread to main stream with no oversight. Facebook, Twitter and others block opposing ideas.

    Take control of health care. People are paranoid of getting ill and most don’t think they should pay for it. This part was stifled by President Trump but will now become reality.

    Restrict our ability to move around at will. Destroy our energy independence President Trump built and we are looking at a serious problem.

    Then the final part. Ignore the second amendment and start collecting the (can’t type it because watts up deleted me before) and we’re off to being like all the other tur…d hole socialist country’s. Thanks democrats. I hope you like the country you just created.

  61. Mail-ins and electronic always a recipe for disaster. You leave the door open for someone to steal an advantage…they WILL walk right on through. US, UK, third world, makes no difference.

    The only clean way is ID, then use a pencil to mark a piece of paper, then drop the piece of paper into a sealed box. That’s it.

    If you must use mail-in they should ALL be in before polling closes on the day. Nothing the day/s after, ever.

    • If anyone says requiring ID is racissssst, ask if he/she/it likes French Republic and if Europe in general is more reasonable than the US and should be copied.

      If Europe and notably France has very intelligent, liberal, progressive, protective policies, why is ID requirement the norm and not the exception in Europe?

      In France, you need an official ID to vote in almost all cases.

  62. For your entertainment:

    Election result in Perpignan void after tribunal rules fraud definitely took place.
    6 October 2008

    Protests took place the day after the election in March after the brother of a UMP politician who was head of a polling booth was found with votes stuffed down his socks.

    Marchers brandished clothes lines lined with socks.

    UMP candidate Jean-Paul Alduy won by just 574 votes against his Socialist Party rival Jacqueline Amiel-Donat.

    The judge ruled that, alongside the ‘sock fraud’ the number of envelopes collected had been different from the number of people who had voted.

  63. As a Brit -Can anyone help?I “landed “on a site called SGB REPORT which claimed to have evidence that Obama,Clinton ,Biden and others conspired to assassinate the 6 Navy SEALS who were meant to kill Bin Laden but didnt! Seems incredible but they seemed to have credible witnesses and claimed to have reliable documents and recordings.Now I don’t put anything past these 3 charlatans but….
    Anyone know anything about this?

  64. Intelligent people solve problems? There is but one possible solution finding, weak, but in place.

    Article 5, Convention of the States (this should have convened at least 5 times)

  65. Democrat Vernon Jones Exposes His Own Party in Georgia for Election Fraud
    Democrat Vernon Jones just exposed his own party in Georgia saying: “If I can go through what I’ve gone through, you can, too. I’m going to fight… The Democratic Party should be here right now because this is about democracy. If we don’t get elections right here where else can we go to get them right.” WATCH Pelosi declare she won the “war” despite losing seats in the House:

  66. Here’s a little story.

    I’m in WA State, we’ve done mail-in ballots for years. I got mine a couple weeks before the election. I also got one for a former renter (used to rent out our basement apartment 6 or 7 years ago). I did mine, took it to a drop box about a week before the election.

    The other one I took back to the post office, handed it to one of the counter clerks. Told them he hasn’t been at that address for a few years. They said thanks and took it.

    3 days later, it shows up in my mailbox again. I shredded it.

    Yup, the post office is on the job.

  67. There was a lot of cheating for Biden. I think this was by plan. Most of the problems identified are there as distractions. Red herrings of a sort. Correcting any of them would not be enough to change the overall result but investigating them will take a lot of time and time is not available.

    It appears the big ticket was the vote switching that took place during the shutdown on Weds. morning. However, the system provides no tracking to determine what exactly was done and there appears to be no way to correct it. Nor will any of the state governments be interested as they are all run by Democrats. Unless something shows up quickly to demonstrate this activity was illegal I see no chance to overturn the election.

    The good news is the Congress is split and it will difficult for Democrats to move quickly. I’m sure they are working on this problem as we speak.

    • Yet Republican senators could win reelection. Lame politicians included. Those weren’t stolen.

      I think that was the plan. Not stealing too many races.

    • Ballots are counted by machines, machines produce a ticker tape log, ticker tape log is kept and totalled to use a balance verification of the electronic count reported. How do you think vote totals are audited by hand? That is how county officials are finding the “glitches” in MI, GA, PA, and WI? I’m willing to bet careful audits will find many more such “glitches” or “typing errors”, as they are euphemistically referred to by the media once they are forced to accept them. The gap in GA, PA, and WI have all narrowed yesterday as these issues are being quietly corrected. Not that you’ll hear the media say anything at all. Go check the actual numbers if you don’t believe me.

    • The servers used for the Dominion switching and dumping (total, over 3 million votes acc cyber security pros who are on the case) were based in Frankfurt.

      I understand units of the US Army in Germany seized them yesterday,

  68. Sidney Powell, one of President Trump’s attorneys, was making some serious vote fraud allegations this morning on Fox News Channel.

    Sidney Powell is not given to exaggeration, so the charges she was leveling must have evidence to back them up. At one point she was talking about 450,000 illegal votes.

    She said the Trump administration will be filing suit tomorrow, so I guess we’ll get to see some of the evidence.

    To hear Sydney Powell tell it, Trump is the winner of the election and she can prove it.

    Maria Bartiromo interviews Sydney Powell (Youtube)

  69. Here is what I like about ‘The Left’

    Before voting: America is divided and only Biden can heal and reunite.

    After voting: Stop it with your fraud claims and admit defeat so we can formally start punishing you Trump supporting scum.

    Not all democrats of course, and many of the more vocal revenge screamers do seem to be not actual political figures, but telling people to hurry up and surrender so they can start their revenge is not the way to either heal division or get people to concede gracefully.

    Interesting times.

    • Only bipartisan exposing and consequently fighting the fraud would really heal and reunite. If Biden were half the guy Trump is he would simply state that he has no desire to win by fraud and demand action himself. Other than Trump he may just not grasp the intricacies. Btw I can’t prove there is fraud but 35 plus years of tax auditing kick in and things feel off. Call it intuition. “The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant.” Albert Einstein. LOL.

    • telling people to hurry up and surrender so they can start their revenge is not the way to either heal division or get people to concede gracefully.

      For those to whom you refer, stamping out all opposition IS their definition of “healing division”.

    • “Not all democrats”

      Not all Dems, but since they supported the BLM and defund the police movements and ACAB and the ACAB friendly (like gay friendly) crowd:

      If there is only bad cop, but the others back him up, hide his faults, lie for him at every occasion, there are only bad cops.

      The assumptions being:

      – You are responsible for your systematic group biases, even the biases of a subset of the whole group.
      – Silence is consent. You must actively denounce injustice.
      – Inaction is complicity. You must actively fight injustice.

      By that metric:

      – there are only bad academics;
      – there are only bad Dems.

      IOW the decent people have left the left already.

      Remember, the Dems propagated the good people on both side fake news and backed up the Russian probe and Mueller. These weren’t attacks on all conservatives, but on many that happened to look into the DNC and Podesta emails (which were never seriously analyzed because it’s normal to discuss pizzas and children age in emails).

  70. Just follow the votes .Using data analysis and applying Benford Law a pattern can be found. In those vital states . All candidates voting distribution conformed to this law.APA RT FROM BIDEN ,HIS VOTING PATTERN SUGGESTS THE VOTES GIVEN TO HIM ARE HIGHLY LIKELY TO BE FRAUDULENT! HE WAS AIDED BY DOMINION VOTING MACHINE.

  71. I see where President Trump is going to start holding public rallies in the States where the election is disputed. We are going to be hearing about voter fraud for some time to come. The Democrats and RINO Republicans want Trump supporters to accept the Democrat theft of the election. It’s not going to happen.

    Challenging the vote count at public rallies ought to be fun. The Leftwing Media will have a hissy fit!

    They’ll really have a hissy fit if Trump manages to overturn the Leftwing Media’s narrative that Biden won the election. The recounts and court challenges may not only show that President Trump won the election, but they may also show that a couple of Republican Senators also won their races, too. Hang in there, John James (R-Michigan)! I like that guy! 🙂

    I hear AOC wants to form a list of all Trump supporters, supposedly to punish them/us for supporting Trump. All 71 million of us are going on your list, AOC? Well, *you* are definitely on *our* list. 🙂

    I wonder if AOC wants to implement a Social Credit Score for all American citizens like they have over in China? I’d bet a paychech she does. The Chicoms use a Social Credit score to keep their subjects in line. Criticize the commies and your social credit score goes down, and privileges are withdrawn. Criticize the commies too much, and you just disappear into jail, or into eternity.

    If Trump wins this election, the Leftwing Media will be howling their rage for another four years. I sure hope that happens. Watch for Sidney Powell.

    • “I see where President Trump is going to start holding public rallies in the States where the election is disputed.”

      Of course he is. He owes over $400M, and his assets are quite illiquid. He needs to monetize his base – again. This is a proven ploy for his easily duped acolytes. A much less charismatic Newt Gingrich has been doing it for the last 20 years, and is tens of mils wealthier than he would have been otherwise.

      ” We are going to be hearing about voter fraud for some time to come.”

      Yes, on twitter, and OAN. But even the older right wing media outlets will be backing off on this silliness. Grudge, Breitbart, NewsMax, Fox, want to keep some semblance of relevance to the real world.

      “The Democrats and RINO Republicans want Trump supporters to accept the Democrat theft of the election. It’s not going to happen.”

      You’re getting laughed out courtrooms daily. No evidence, recanted testimonies, suits brought and then recalled to be able to be added to a bogus lawsuit sum, accusers found to be sex criminals. Repub and Dem judges/election officials alike are eye rolling, and those judges will be sanctioning these frivolities within a week.

      How long do you Trump funders/enablers want to be the Jack Nicholson/Bill Murray dentists patient in Little Shop of Horrors.?

  72. I noticed that no riots broke out after the election.

    When Biden was declared the winner, all the businesses started taking their plywood down off their doors and windows.

    Why? Because the business owners know it is not the people on the Right who are doing the rioting and lootig and burning, it is the people on the Left, and nothing could be a clearer signal than that the businesses are removing their plywood.

    They obviously do not expect a violent reaction from the people on the Right.

    So now all the propaganda about the Rightwing Mob is shown to be a pack of lies.

    So who were Senator Joe Manchin (D-Pennsylvania) and Republican Governor Larry Hogan of Maryland addressing in the commercial they are both appearing in at the moment, where they urge the American people to accept whoever wins the presidency?

    Are they not feeding into the meme that the Right might get violent over the election results? They certainly aren’t addressing the Left because the Left thinks it has won the election and are currently not rioting (except in Portland!).

    Where have Joe and Larry, and their message of acceptance, been for the last four years? NOW they want acceptance of the election result, after they think a Democrat has won.

    • Never stoop to their level. Eventually they’ll fall into their own trap. It’s always like that imhop. Anyway, I’m not concerned. Distracted, okay yes.

  73. Btw, with regard to the contested votes in the Battleground States, Trump’s attorney, Sidney Powell, mentioned a “greater conspiracy”.

    So I’m very curious to see what Sidney means by “greater conspiracy”. I will assume she has some evidence of such, since she is a careful, thoughful lawyer, and I can’t see her spreading conspiracy theories without evidence, based on how she has behaved (properly) in the past. She is one of the best lawyers in the country. If I needed a lawyer, I would want Sydney Powell representing me.

    She is also General Flynn’s lawyer.

    “Greater conspiracy”, huh? Trump needs some damning evidence on the Democrats to rescue his presidency. Maybe they have some. Time will tell.

  74. A side note about the political landscape:

    Some people here have suggested that Naomi Seibt is a puppet of some big money group, a young face reading other people’s words.

    I think that Naomi Seibt, or anyone else, daring to mention the Wayfair very real mystery and the very fake debunking (*), definitively proves there aren’t pretty faces working to mainstream some discourse by “dark money” groups.

    (*) debunkers have no less than three different answers for the main question, like Hillary for her illness

  75. Welcome to the DisUnited States of America folks….
    All empires fall eventually….
    USA, going down.
    And not a Russian or Chinese scam in sight, all your own work.

    The Rest of the World is watching, in amazement!

    • JohnM: “USA, going down.”

      Not quite yet. The friends and allies of the United States should be the ones worrying about themselves going down when cowardly Democrats are in charge in the United States. The USA will be the last one going down, if we go down at all.

      JohnM: “And not a Russian or Chinese scam in sight, all your own work.”

      That’s true, the Russians and Chinese are not the most dangerous forces arrayed against the United States. The most dangerous force to the USA are the Domestic Enemies embodied in the Criminal Enterprise called the Democrat Party. They are very close to stealing a US presidential election.

      It’s not over yet. Traitor Joe Biden has not been certified as the next U.S. president, except by the Leftwing News Media..

    • I can explain it. The management at Facebook want Traitor Joe Biden to win the election and they censor anything that conflicts with their desires. Your picture casts doubt on Biden’s vote numbers and the Facebook owners don’t want that kind of information sent out over the internet or over Facebook.

      We have blatant censorship on the social media platforms. They don’t even try to hide it now. Their arrogance knows no bounds.

      • Why should they bother to hide it when they suffer no consequences and are never held accountable? Their arrogance is warranted.

        • “Their arrogance is warranted.”

          You are correct.

          A Donald Trump win would wipe that arrogance right off their faces. It would wipe the arrogance off a lot of faces.

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