The Pure Evil of Hydrogen Hyping

Guest post by David Archibald

In energy policy, the Australian government is compounding stupidity upon stupidity. Hundreds of millions of dollars are now to be spent on the dead end that is the hydrogen economy. To put that stupidity into context, let’s go back a few years and look at the missed opportunities to put things to right.

After Trump’s election win in 2016, Myron Ebell of the Competitive Enterprise Institute in Washington was given the job of finding a director for the Environmental Protection Agency. Instead of taking the job himself as he should have done, the job was given to Scott Pruitt who was more interested in decorating his office than reform. Mr Pruitt left the position in 2018. Dr Will Happer came into the administration for a while and was expected to write a paper debunking global warming. This was to be the first government report on the planet to say that global warming is a nonsense.  That effort was apparently killed off by Jared Kushner and Dr Happer left. Consequently tens of billions of dollars continue to be wasted fighting the phantom menace of global warming.

In fact the global warming misinformation campaign keeps ratcheting up. In 2017 the globalists of the World Economic Forum, based in Geneva but best known for their annual meeting in Davos, created an offshoot called the Hydrogen Council. This is based in Belgium, which is also the birthplace of Dr Evil.  The promoters of hydrogen must know it is a non-starter. Their market research on selling global warming would have told them that they needed a positive story about a future nirvana that would be free of the evil carbon. So they go through the charade of promoting the hydrogen heaven to come.

Why is hydrogen no good? A succinct paper on the whys and wherefores was published by Baldur Eliasson and Ulf Bossel in 2003 – “The Future of the Hydrogen Economy: Bright or Bleak?” From that paper, energy lost in power transmission, operation of oil refineries and transport is usually less than 10% of the energy traded. The losses in hydrogen manufacture and transport are much higher and inherent to this element.

Hydrogen has a heating value of 142 MJ/kg compared to methane at 55 MJ/kg. But in terms of volumetric heating value, hydrogen is less than a third of methane at 11.7 kJ/litre. Methane’s value is 36.5 kJ/kg.

Figure 1: Heating value per litre.

Hydrogen has to compressed or liquefied for storage and transport. As figure 1 shows for an equivalent amount of low pressure storage and transport, facilities for handling hydrogen are three times larger than the same energy content of methane. At 800 bar or in the liquid state hydrogen must be kept in hi-tech pressure tanks or cryogenic vessels whereas liquid hydrocarbon fuels are kept at atmospheric pressure in simple containers.

Hydrogen can be made by electrolysis of water, which is 75% efficient, or by steam reforming of natural gas, 90% efficiency. But as the religious compulsion is “clean hydrogen”, no fossil fuels or nuclear energy is allowed.

Producing 1 kg of hydrogen (which has a specific energy of 143 MJ/kg or about 40 kWh/kg) requires 50–55 kWh of electricity.

Solar panels made in China using power priced at US$0.04/kWh can produce power priced equivalent to power from diesel engines at about US$0.15/kWh under ideal conditions in a desert, for eight hours per day. So at best clean hydrogen could be produced for US$8.00/kg, not including the capital costs of the electrolysis segment.

Ten times as much energy is required to compress hydrogen as the same weight of methane.  To compress one tonne per hour of hydrogen to 200 bar (natural gas pipelines operate up to 150 bar) takes 7.2% of its heating value.

Liquefying hydrogen is highly energy intensive. At a plant capacity of 100 kg of liquid hydrogen per hour, about 60 MJ of electrical energy is used per kg of hydrogen. Plant efficiency increases with plant size but with a theoretical minimum of about 40 MJ, equating to 28% of the contained energy of the hydrogen produced. By comparison liquefying methane takes 6% of the contained energy of the methane feedstock.

Storing hydrogen as a metal hydride of alkali metals is comparable to compression in terms of energy consumption. External heat is needed to release hydrogen from the metal hydride storage material. The amount of hydrogen that can be stored per cubic metre of metal hydride is about 60 kg, approaching that of liquid hydrogen of 72 kg per cubic metre. But it is well short of the 100 kg contained in a cubic metre of methanol.

Distribution of hydrogen by pipeline would require a new system. It is well established that existing pipelines cannot be used for hydrogen, because of diffusion losses, brittleness of materials and seals, incompatibility of pump lubrication with hydrogen and other technical issues. That hasn’t stopped Australian gas distributors from spiking their gas supply with 5% hydrogen. No doubt one day they will wake up to find their pipes and valves embrittled and leaking like a sieve.

Because of the low volumetric energy density of hydrogen, the flow velocity must be increased by over three times in a pipeline delivering hydrogen as compared to methane.  In a natural gas pipeline 0.3% of the contained energy of the transported gas is used every 150 km to run the compressors. In a hydrogen pipeline this rises to 1.4% every 150 km.

If delivering hydrogen by pipeline is energy-intensive, distributing it by road transport is far more problematic. By Eliasson and Bossel’s figures, a 40 ton truck could deliver 25 tons of gasoline, 3.2 tons of methane but only 320 kg of hydrogen. This is a consequence of the low energy density of hydrogen and the weight of the pressure vessels.

In their parable of the gasoline station, a mid-size filling station on a freeway sells 25 tons of fuel each day. This can be delivered by one 40 ton truck. But it would need 21 hydrogen trucks to deliver the same amount of energy to the station. About one in one hundred trucks on the road are gasoline or diesel tankers. For hydrogen distribution by road that would rise to 120 trucks on the road with 21 of these transporting hydrogen with one out of six truck accidents involving a hydrogen truck.

What if hydrogen was generated at filling stations by electrolysis and then compressed to 200 bars? Eliasson and Bossel calculate that at a station servicing 1,000 vehicles per day the efficiency of conversion of the electric power required would be about 50%, in turn requiring power generation capacity to be tripled.

The problems of hydrogen are innate – its physical properties are incompatible with the requirements of the energy market. As Eliasson and Bossel state, most of hydrogen’s problems cannot be solved by additional research and development. If hydrogen is irredeemable, what would be the ideal energy carrier? It would be a liquid with a boiling point of at least 60°C and a solidification point under 40°C. It would stay liquid under normal weather conditions and at high altitudes. Even if oil had never been discovered, the world would not use synthetic hydrogen but a synthetic hydrocarbon fuel.

All the above is known to the promoters of the glorious hydrogen economy to come. Theirs is a cynical exercise in duping the public in order to advance the globalist agenda. Australia’s politicians are either foot soldiers in that globalist putsch or easily deluded simpletons.

We rational people can dream too. Economic modelling gives President Trump a 90% chance of winning the election a few weeks away. Soon after Dr Happer will be recalled and sign off on the report that drives a stake through the heart of the global warming monster. The globalist rent-seekers will be forced to get real jobs. Scientific truth will be pursued as an end in itself. We can dream.

David Archibald is the author of American Gripen: The Solution to the F-35 Nightmare

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September 24, 2020 10:27 pm

Methane’s value is 36.5 kJ/kg ??

I think you meant per litre.

Disputin
Reply to  PCman999
September 25, 2020 2:25 am

No, because otherwise you’d need to specify the pressure.

D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  Disputin
September 25, 2020 5:22 am

The comparison is to hydrogen on a per liter basis, and it’s taken from the table where the pressure is specified at 800 bar. So yes, it should be 36.5 kJ/liter. That said, the units are wrong, in that the table is in MJ/liter. I don’t know off hand which is correct.

Jim Whelan
Reply to  D. J. Hawkins
September 25, 2020 10:44 am

Disputin is correct. The measure per Kg is independent of temperature. The paper also gives a value of 11.7 kJ/litre for normal atmospheric pressure. The table than shows values for 200 and 800 times atmospheric pressure so MJ/litre is appropriate.

Nigel
Reply to  PCman999
September 28, 2020 12:40 am

It’s a typo I’d say. They do mean per litre for the figure you quoted, which is referring to the chart. The per kg figures are also quoted.

Nigel
Reply to  Nigel
September 28, 2020 12:49 am

Sorry, the chart is another measure again – MJ/litre figures 200 bar.
The point is that methane holds more energy for the same PV.

Zane
September 24, 2020 10:31 pm

Australia is determined to commit economic suicide. RIP, Australia. I guess the plan is that the Chicoms just roll in and repopulate it.

Reply to  Zane
September 24, 2020 10:51 pm

See Tibet for example on how that cultural re-programming will happen.
With the way some parts of Australia are handling the COVID restrictions on free speech and movements, the People are already being programmed for a Chi-comm level of Central authority control of everyday lives. Including the Big Brother-like snitching on non-compliant resisters.

Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
September 25, 2020 4:39 am

The UK too.

Reply to  Ben Vorlich
September 25, 2020 6:28 am

Well BoJo did walk that back to snitching on “animal parties”.

The culture of “animal parties” is rather decadent. I’ve seen one too many.

Reply to  Ben Vorlich
September 29, 2020 6:38 am

Don’t forget Canada!

gbaikie
September 24, 2020 10:34 pm

What think using Ammonia (NH3) [or “NH4 (ammonium) is a nontoxic salt”].
Someone hyping it- and mentions Australia:
https://phys.org/news/2018-01-link-solar-hydrogen-ammonia.html

[I thought of it and then searched it- because recently thinking of it because wondering the propane heated refrigerator [which it involves NH4??}. Anyhow wondered if could it be could be split easily {and not sure}.

PeterW
Reply to  gbaikie
September 25, 2020 12:02 am

Ammonia is being touted as the “new” way to store and transport hydrogen.

Just don’t bother to look up the current cost ofAmmonia production or the amount of H2 that you can get out of a kilo ofNH3.

gbaikie
Reply to  PeterW
September 25, 2020 1:52 am

Ah around $250 to $530 per ton:
https://www.dtnpf.com/agriculture/web/ag/crops/article/2019/06/14/oversupply-weakens-global-ammonia-2
So $.50 per kilogram and 14 + 3 or 1/6 so +$3 per kg
hmm: NH4OH
From china: US $280.00-$300.00 / Metric Ton
25 Metric Tons (Min. Order)
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/ammonium-hydroxide-price.html
N = 14 and O = 16
get 4 H? so 35 so 1/9 so $2.70 per kg
$3 per kg plus whatever cost to split it.

Michael S. Kelly
Reply to  gbaikie
September 25, 2020 9:27 pm

Hydrazine (N2H4) is arguably the best way to transport hydrogen. It is room-temperature storable, and gives 60% higher hydrogen density than liquid hydrogen. Further, it breaks down exothermically, providing energy without any combustion – subsequent combustion provides even more.

Daihatsu has been working on a hydrazine fuel cell for vehicle purposes, and has also developed an encapsulation scheme for hydrazine which renders it non-hazardous in the event of an accident, and spill.

It can be produced without any carbon at any step of the way, asynchronously with any kind of electric energy (including “renewable” energy).

Will we ever see it? Not a chance in hell. The Left will endorse any “sustainable, zero carbon” energy source as long as it doesn’t work. As soon as one does work, they’ll politic it out of existence – as they have already done with nuclear fission.

Their goal is not to “save the earth.” It is to extinguish humanity.

Flavio Capelli
Reply to  Michael S. Kelly
September 26, 2020 1:20 am

Uhm, hydrazine is not exactly a benign substance. I’d rather avoid it.

September 24, 2020 10:45 pm

” Australia’s politicians are either foot soldiers in that globalist putsch or easily deluded simpletons.”

Why are those mutually exclusive? I would argue they go hand-in-hand and are tightly coupled traits.
And not just Australia by any stretchr, but most of the Leftists in the Western world are easily deluded simpletons willing to be foot soldiers in a Marxist revolution.

We can avoid that future by knowing how it happened in the past in other cultures. And those people really weren’t much different from us. We can learn from the many millions upon millions of deaths at the hands of Bolshevik-Marxists in the 20th Century. If we don’t, then we too will be sent to the Gulags.

griff
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
September 24, 2020 11:51 pm

climate science and renewable energy is nothing to do with leftists and especially not to do with Marxists (those guys haven’t noticed the 20th century ended)

Reply to  griff
September 25, 2020 12:42 am

Oh dear. “Marxists (those guys haven’t noticed the 20th century ended)”
Just like climatetards.

MarkW
Reply to  Leo Smith
September 25, 2020 8:22 am

Is griff honestly trying to argue that there are no Marxists out there?

Matthew Schilling
Reply to  MarkW
September 25, 2020 9:37 am

I think griff is trying to say Climastrologists aren’t Marxists (because Marxists are so 20th Century, while Climastrologists are Children Of The Future, or something).

Yet, here is a Venn Diagram of Climastrologists and Marxists: O

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  griff
September 25, 2020 12:47 am

And yet, every single ‘solution’ to CAGW is almost pure socialist reforms. Every single one.

More government.
More taxes.
More control.
More socialism.

Explain that one, if you can.

Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
September 25, 2020 3:54 am

Zig Zag Wanderer September 25, 2020 at 12:47 am
More government.
More taxes.
More control.
More socialism.

Explain that one, if you can.
—————
If people are told mask wearing prevents 50+% of covid cases what happens – ‘They want to throw God’s wonderful breathing system out’
if the government tell people you WILL wear a mask or get fined £10000 people tend to comply.

Thus it is with AGW – tell people to travel less/travel more efficiently has no effect the gov must give incentive to cut back on fossil burning. – higher fuel prices – taxes?

Taxes are meant to tax the wealthy and it is the wealthy who will not notice a few £ missing from their salary. Unfortunatel reducing CO2 and other pollutants will cost more. But what are the alternatives?

More controls – I assume means gov control? so same as [1]

People are unwilling to look more than their lifetime ahead and consider their family only. This should not be the case we have a duty to think of future generations and global not just local. How many times do people say that they would not mind a 4°C warmer climate. But a rise like this would KILL people where temperatures already to 48°C.

MarkW
Reply to  Ghalfrunt.
September 25, 2020 8:26 am

IE, government control is good. More government control is better.

Force people to wear masks, for their own good of course.
Force people to gravel less, for their own good of course.
Steal even more from the rich, because that means more can be spent by the Marxists.

Of course, only the Marxists are smart enough and noble enough to plan for the future, that’s why they need total control of everything.

A couple of problems
1) Socialism/Marxism has never solved any of the problems it was implemented to solve, and has always made things worse. Except for those who have appointed themselves to run it. They make out like bandits.
2) I’m still waiting for evidence that the tiny amount of warming that CO2 might be capable of is a problem. Much less one requiring government to take over everything.

DrEd
Reply to  Ghalfrunt.
September 25, 2020 12:30 pm

Where did you get that BS that “taxes are meant to tax the wealthy”? It’s that moronic socialistic mindset that leads you astray. Taxes are meant to support functions done most appropriately by a government (e.g., defense), and all citizens should contribute in some manner. The fact that most democracies have a progressive tax system is just the first step in the destruction of democracy. As was said, democracies will fail when the majority recognize that they can help themselves to the public trough, paid for by the “wealthy” minority.

Gwan
Reply to  Ghalfrunt.
September 25, 2020 3:07 pm

Reply to G half runt .
We are being pushed towards socialism and one world government through the imagined threat of climate change .
The proponents do not want to modify their lifestyles but expect and demand that every one else decrease their use of energy .
Temperatures were higher in the 1930s than now and sea levels have been much higher than present .
Despite the constant propaganda from the left wing press and TV stations there no proof that the doubling of CO2 levels in the atmosphere can elevate the earths temperature by more than six tenths of one degree Celsius .
The theory of global warming depends on the tropical hotspot and positive water vapour feed back .
Neither have been proven to exist .
G half runt , Griff and Simon are useful idiots who all believe the lies that are told and never think maybe they are being used .
Don’t come back here untill you can bring some proof that elevated CO2 levels will cause dangerous global warming .

c1ue
Reply to  Ghalfrunt.
September 25, 2020 10:34 pm

This is the blind debating the deaf.
Socialism/Communism: it has solved all kinds of issues.
It turned a 3rd rate Eurasian power into a world power (Russia).
It modernized and kept China unified.

Equally, the libertarian nonsense:
The rich don’t pay progressively more tax in the US or even Europe. Whatever the titular rates are supposed to be – in reality, the rich in both the US and EU pay far less of their income to taxes – which is the combination of sales, income, import, property and other taxes. Warren Buffet pays less tax per dollar of income than his secretary.

Mainstream politicians in the US hates socialism and communism because that is what the rich fear the most – and for the same reason why progressives gravitate towards it: because ultimately it is a very powerful way to unite the masses against the oligarchs.

Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
September 25, 2020 5:30 am

Right, the “climate justice” thing.
https://ajustclimate.org/

Gwan
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
September 26, 2020 11:47 am

Reply to c’lue.
You haven’t got a clue glorifying communism .
Millions of Russians were killed by Stalin and other leaders and millions more have been killed by Chinese leaders suppressing opposition and it is still happening in China at this moment with the Muslim minorities .
You never mentioned your hero Fidel Castro and the Cubans that have been put to death by his henchmen.
The politics of envy does not work and the state controlling every facet of a countries citizens does not work .
I was born in New Zealand with nothing and will go to my grave with nothing but through sheer hard work and working on solutions to problems I have enjoyed a bountiful life
.My property will be passed on to my children and grand children .
The right to own property should be every citizens right and also to pass it on to their children .
Communism is based on tribal ideology whether you think so or not .
The ” tribe ” is the state and all members have to be subservient to the “tribe ” or state.
The tribe have chiefs and the chieftain class .The state has the leaders and bureaucrats who enjoy a very good standard of living while the serfs can not even own their own home or farm or start a business .
Wealthy people pay the vast majority of taxes in most countries.

Komerade Cube
Reply to  griff
September 25, 2020 3:01 am

Great leftist propaganda Griff! Which are you, foot-soldier or deluded simpleton?

Rod Evans
Reply to  griff
September 25, 2020 3:05 am

Tell us what you think about the hydrogen solution to future energy requirements griff.
We are all standing by waiting for your considered opinion on the idea.

griff
Reply to  Rod Evans
September 25, 2020 6:43 am

It is a good solution for trains, some applications in steel making, supplementing natural gas and energy storage, buses… I don’t think its good for cars, given the level of development of batteries.

There will be many occasions on which renewable energy being produced exceeds demand and producing hydrogen is as good as storing the surplus in batteries. (Oh yes there will be: the plan is to end curtailment of wind power…)

chemman
Reply to  griff
September 25, 2020 12:08 pm

Did you even read the article. Your ignorance of hydrogen chemistry is astounding. Hydrogen makes metals brittle and damages the seals in natural gas pipelines.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  griff
September 25, 2020 6:42 pm

“chemman September 25, 2020 at 12:08 pm

Your ignorance … is astounding.”

There, fixed it for ya.

Graeme#4
Reply to  griff
September 25, 2020 9:30 pm

Hydrogen in a moving vehicle, with pipes and connections under constant vibration? You’re surely kidding?

SAMURAI
Reply to  griff
September 25, 2020 3:16 am

griff-san:

Marxism is simply the evil and completely failed philosophy of the state controlling the means of production through: rules, regulations, taxation and the barrel of a gun, and the tacit elimination of: private property rights, freedom of speech, freedom of thought, free will, and, well,….freedom of everything…. The state owns yo’ butt…

The free market would NEVER intentionally use wind and/or solar to run power grids because they are far too diffuse, intermittent, unreliable, inefficient, expensive, have laughable energy densities and require 100% immediate backup…. Accordingly, they’ll never rationally replace abundant and dirt cheap fossil fuels, hydro or nuclear energy..

Fossil fuels’ negative externalities are easily solved by technology: catalytic converters, smokestack scrubbers, advanced engines, etc., —-excluding CO2 which is NOT a negative externality, regardless of what lunatic Leftists beliiiiieve…

Rod Evans
Reply to  SAMURAI
September 25, 2020 3:41 am

+100 well said. Samurai

Gregory Woods
Reply to  griff
September 25, 2020 4:37 am

WUWT publishes comments by griff for entertainment purposes only. Responding to his idiocies is not required…

griff
Reply to  Gregory Woods
September 25, 2020 6:40 am

I’m here all summer… please see the stage door for autographed photos…

Reply to  griff
September 25, 2020 7:32 am

For use as toilet paper?

Sara
Reply to  griff
September 25, 2020 6:20 am

Griff, seriously, these impractical episodes of “great idea stuff” are just low-key manifestations put out by people who want to tell you when you’re allowed to use the restroom. Snap out of it, willya?

Every time I read one of these episodes from the Bright Idea Club, I wonder just how long it will be until we’re in the first episode of the “Mad Max” series of movies. Don’t think so, Griff? You’re far too naive. Please snap out of it. Marxism is the goal those bozos want to inflict on you. AOC, our very own squirrelly Democrat in the House of Reps, has made it quite clear that it is what SHE wants, and labels it “climate justice”, an oxymoron if there ever was one. She’s backed by a Marxist group. She’s only one of many like her.

Please snap out of it, Griff. Otherwise, you’ll be running like mad to try to catch the train out of town.

griff
Reply to  Sara
September 25, 2020 6:39 am

I see major govts of the centre and right and major world corporations and financial institutions and insurers and above all scientists in ancient institutions researching ice and climate long before the ‘climate crisis’ all accepting the science and investing in renewables…

I see this resulting in new physical infrastructure and measurable increases in Twh of delivered electricity and measurable reductions of CO2.

I see this in multiple countries.

I say it again: the ‘leftist’ and ‘marxist’ narrative just doesn’t wash outside the climate skeptic/US media/republican like politics bubble

MarkW
Reply to  griff
September 25, 2020 8:30 am

Politicians pushing for solutions that mean more money and more power for themselves. Big surprise there.
The politicians that run those “ancient” institutions love the money that comes with the global warming scam. The actual scientists are never asked for their opinion.

Andrew Dickens
Reply to  griff
September 25, 2020 12:15 pm

Griff, on the subject of Marxism/socialism and global warming. All my life I’ve been regarded as a person of the left. But because I don’t accept the establishment line on global warming, people call me “right wing”. Why do they do that?

btw, I’m delighted that you keep posting, in spite of the fact that your views put you in a minority on this site. You help to generate debate, always a good thing.

Malcolm Carter
Reply to  griff
September 25, 2020 2:31 pm

Been to the meetings and talked to the climate challenged professors. Surprising how an hour long presentation has 5 minutes of settled science and 55 minutes of ways to take over the establishment. I used the word socialist to describe their opinions then ramped it up to Marxist. Karl isn’t mentioned by the professors but I use his name to describe the far radical left of socialism.

j t
Reply to  Sara
September 25, 2020 7:52 am

True, Sara…and we appear to probably agree about these things as far as I can tell. Not to split hairs, but what the predator cult (WEF-types) behind this plandemic, or crisis-demic, really want is a Technocracy. They want “experts” to tell the people…ALL the people of the world…what to do, where to do it, when to do it, how to do it, with what to do it, where to live, how to live, what to eat and drink, what meds and vaccines to take and when and for what, when to die and who should die first.

And that’s just jacks for starters. They also want to control the moral code–their code, which basically calls “moral” whatever they decide is good for us. And of course, the experts are they themselves and those they choose from among those that belong to the cult and agree with them. And they want a lot of the decisions to be made by AI…with all software controlled by them of course, all input. They want humans to become less human and more machine-like, including command&control of thoughts and actions, via chips, machine interfaces, etc: transhumanism.

Marxism to them is simply a tool they have used and continue to use in the meantime to brainwash (esp. in the universities) people into helping them tear down sovereign states, destroy (beneficial) capitalism and economies, destroy cities, destroy rights, etc. But Technocracy is really economic totalitarianism, not basically political. Their plans include no politicians, or better said no “elected” officials, no one responsible to WeTheSheople but only to the (benevolent, of course) ruling cult.

That’s why they love and support (and essentially generated) Agenda 21–it creates levels of governance that supercede elected governance, regional and national control panels and entities that can countermand any and all rules or regulations at all elected levels and create new ones of their own whenever they want without input from the citizens-turned-sheople. Ie, no government but their own internally composed, externally imposed tyranny.

MarkW
Reply to  griff
September 25, 2020 8:21 am

The evidence has been given, but griff refuses to see anything that contradicts his religious convictions.

griff
Reply to  MarkW
September 25, 2020 8:44 am

My religious convictions have nothing to do with my acceptance of the findings of climate science…

(Its a bit odd going to church in a mask as UK covid regs currently dictate…)

The idea climate change is leftist is absent from public opinion and discussion outside the USA (except for people who read Watts, probably!)

MarkW
Reply to  griff
September 25, 2020 11:13 am

What findings would those be?

Would that be your religious conviction that CO2 controls the climate, despite all the science that shows it is a minor player at best?
Would that be your religious conviction that Polar Bears are dying, despite all the science that shows that they are thriving?
Would that be your religious conviction that the climate is unprecedented, despite the science that shows that nothing that is happening is at all unusual?
Who cares what the leadership of the climate movement says their motivation is, griff knows best.

oeman50
Reply to  griff
September 25, 2020 8:55 am

And AOC and her minions have admitted the GND is just a path to socialism.

Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
September 25, 2020 6:35 am

Australia has only one problem – as a Commonwealth “dominion”, which the US soon will be also, the Queen can dismiss any elected government for “insubordination” (see the famous Whitlam case).
Aussie politicians know what happened to Whitlam.
The House of Lords has openly published it will not survive a second Trump admin., so a Maidan color revolution is fully underway.

Funny how Americans imagine “Bolsheviks”, “Chinese” malign actors ala Mad Mike Pompeo, and do not see what is actually happening right under their very noses. At least Pompeo has a religious excuse – he is en-Raptured.

Craig from Oz
Reply to  bonbon
September 25, 2020 3:53 pm

Two problems.

The second is a lot of Australians have an utterly false idea about the powers of the Governor General.

wws
September 24, 2020 11:00 pm

I agree with you that a Hydrogen economy is ridiculous; the only practical way to do it is to use Nat Gas as a feed stock, but if you’re going to do that you might as well use the nat gas directly and save a step.

As far was what went on in D.C. with Pruitt, I have heard a much different story – although of course who can prove what went on behind closed doors? What I gathered was that Pruitt had the potential to do a great job, but Chief of Staff Kelly became furious because Pruitt was not “sufficiently deferential” to him, and thus Kelly waged a full court smear campaign against him from inside the White House. Pruitt in fact announced plans for a red/green team to examine Climate Change, and it was reportedly Kelly who killed it because he didn’t like it, not Kushner. The decorating charges were petty, and in this version were ginned up by Kelly to force Pruitt to resign, for purely personal reasons.

As you well know, later Chief of Staff Kelly was fired, mostly because he thought he was more important than his boss. And Wheeler came in, with much the same plans as Pruitt did, but a smoother manner, and he has done well since then. And all Kelly does now is sit at home and whisper nasty stories to the NYT.

everything else you write I agree with, of course.

David Archibald
Reply to  wws
September 25, 2020 3:30 pm

Thanks for setting the record straight. I thought the red-green team thing was very weak. If you want to reform, you go all OODA on the enemy and keep them off balance. Pruitt should have declared global warming to be a big error and got Happer to sign off on a report straight away. There should be no waiting around and getting comfortable.

Christopher Fay
September 24, 2020 11:07 pm

Because of its low molecular weight, you can’t contain it. Therefore you can’t reticulate it. Hence you can’t distribute it.

Ian Coleman
September 24, 2020 11:21 pm

Yeah, hydrogen. Want to know how dumb proponents of hydrogen fuel cells are? One of their arguments is that, since hydrogen atoms are the most abundant and ubiquitous atoms in the world, hydrogen molecules will be easy to come by.

Incidentally, I see that Mr. Archibald is interested in the F-35 program. Me too. How many more years must pass before it can be officially admitted that it is impossible to produce F-35s that work as advertised? The amount of denial needed to keep funding the program is staggering, but impervious to time and human reason.

David Archibald
Reply to  Ian Coleman
September 25, 2020 12:35 am

NGAD is the F-35 killer we have been waiting for. Note that the F-15 contract is flexible for up to 400 aircraft. Basically it is filling the gap until the NGAD enters production. Lockheed got too greedy and now the DOD has changed fighter acquisition system forever. Intellectual property will remain with the DOD for example. I only recently found out that the F-35 has eleven fuel tanks. Some articles on the wretched thing:
https://wentworthreport.com/ngad-we-got-shafted-on-the-f-35/
https://wentworthreport.com/the-f-35-just-keeps-getting-worse/
https://wentworthreport.com/the-raaf-hornets-why-the-indecent-haste/

Ian Coleman
Reply to  David Archibald
September 25, 2020 3:52 am

Thank you, Mr. Archibald. I’ll read those. I’m interested in the F-35, not only because I’m a fighter plane buff, but also because I’m interested in human folly. Lots of folly from people with genius IQs in the F-35 program.

One of the more fascinating industrial products in America history was the B-58, which was an astonishing (if rather dangerous to operate) aircraft that had become obsolete before it became operational. That thing was beautiful. Useless, though.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Ian Coleman
September 25, 2020 12:50 am

That is, of course, quite true.

As long as you are travelling in between solar systems. Within solar systems, it’s relatively rare, outside of the star itself.

Solution: send Climate Activists to the sun or interstellar space. Problem solved!

Warren
September 24, 2020 11:28 pm

ScoMo & Co . . . hydrogen = expensive natural gas + personal wealth after leaving politics.

gareth
September 24, 2020 11:36 pm

Typo/error: Density of methanol is 0.792 g/cm not 0.100 (“100 kg contained in a cubic metre”)

Thought: why is nobody suggesting synthetic liquid fuels? Take all that “CARBON” and capture it back into a fuel that uses all the existing infrastructure?

Ray Sanders
Reply to  gareth
September 25, 2020 3:07 am

They are. Nobel Laureate George Olah was no fool.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_economy#:~:text=The%20methanol%20economy%20is%20a,hydrogen%20economy%20or%20ethanol%20economy.
It might sound a fanciful notion but providing you can convince Greenies of the need for nuclear power (!) you can actually use the enhanced waste heat to drive the adsorption/desorption process needed to harvest CO2 from the atmosphere. Being a continuous source of electricity for water electrolysis as well, a NPP could readily power a methanol production facility. Given that it is a liquid with a boiling point of 64.7 °C and a freezing point of -97.6 °C and can readily run through a gas turbine then aviation could be “decarbonised”
Expensive but a lot cheaper and more practical than hydrogen.m

oeman50
Reply to  gareth
September 25, 2020 9:04 am

Why burn it in the first place? You have to put all the energy you got and then add more for the losses. The energy has to come from somewhere else.

September 24, 2020 11:41 pm

Not just the Australian government, Europe is going full on. Airbus have given themselves 15 years to make a hydrogen plane to save the planet, meanwhile sacking 3500 peoples jobs in Toulouse since March.

Coeur de Lion
September 24, 2020 11:51 pm

One little hindenberg will fix it

griff
September 24, 2020 11:59 pm

but of course this isn’t just happening in Australia – here are some examples:

Aberdeen Scotland
https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/services/environment/h2-aberdeen

(I include this because BP is involved in this City’s plans)

Humberside, England – massive industrial project
https://gigastack.co.uk/

Germany (of course):
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-and-hydrogen-9-billion-to-spend-as-strategy-is-revealed/a-53719746

“Last week, the (German) government announced that it aimed to have 5 gigawatts (GW) of hydrogen production capacity by 2030, with another 5 GW a decade later.

The plan, which could see hydrogen eventually make up about 10% of the country’s total electricity capacity, was unveiled as part of a €130 billion ($147 billion) stimulus to help reboot the economy during the coronavirus pandemic. The hydrogen commitment is part of some €40 billion earmarked for climate-related spending.”

Japan
https://www.japan.go.jp/tomodachi/2020/earlysummer2020/hydrogen.html

“The world is looking towards hydrogen as a next-generation clean energy source. In Japan, the Fukushima Hydrogen Energy Research Field was completed in March 2020. With the start-up of the world’s largest hydrogen production facility, a giant leap towards the realization of a hydrogen society has been made.”

And I could of course go on, but I think the point is made – this is a worldwide trend.

Komerade Cube
Reply to  griff
September 25, 2020 3:28 am

Stupid is as stupid does

Craig from Oz
September 25, 2020 12:09 am

“David Archibald is the author of American Gripen: The Solution to the F-35 Nightmare”

This is what I like about David. He is not ashamed to admit when he is wrong.

Good solid summary on the Hydrogen Economy myth though 🙂

Lorne Newell
September 25, 2020 12:35 am

Good article. Well done. Thank you.

Ian Magness
September 25, 2020 12:52 am

With interesting timing, yesterday saw the first flight in the UK of a hydrogen powered “commercial” plane (a Piper Malibu):
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/09/24/first-hydrogen-powered-plane-takes-flight/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_iosshare_Av8StTMKd2DC
Apparently is used 4 1/2lb of hydrogen, flew for 8 minutes and reached 100 knots . They reckon with 33lb of fuel it can fly 300 miles (all queue up to test this…), and the company “calculate” that a Boeing 737 with a range of 4,000 miles is possible (colour me sceptical but….). It doesn’t say how much space the new power equipment and fuel take up on any of the planes. It happily chirps up, however, that such equipment will be “more reliable and needs less maintenance than current technology” due to “fewer moving parts”.
It is noted that the developer – ZeroAvia – relocated to the UK from the US last year “because in Europe there is a better understanding of sustainability then in North America”. Hmmm, nothing to do with the fact that the beleaguered British taxpayer, I mean government, is part-funding this then?

Sara
Reply to  Ian Magness
September 25, 2020 6:24 am

They only like it because it hasn’t exploded in front of them just yet. 🙂

ZJ
September 25, 2020 1:02 am

Clarification please: ’40 ton truck could deliver 25tons of gasoline, 3.2 tons of methane but only 320 tons of hydrogen…’ is this an error or does the consequent inefficiency of hydrogen distibution described depend on a very low energy density of hydrogen? Sorry, not being a specialist in energy systems I don’t follow

Reply to  ZJ
September 25, 2020 3:58 am

320 kg, not tons. That should fix it…

Voltron
September 25, 2020 1:09 am

David, they are easily deluded simpletons. They bang on about the lucky country but never saw the full quote –

Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck. It lives on other people’s ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Voltron
September 25, 2020 1:39 am

^^ This!

Carl Friis-Hansen
September 25, 2020 1:26 am

“… methane at 11.7 kJ/litre. Methane’s value is 36.5 kJ/kg”

Shouldn’t it be 36.5 kJ/litre?

TomR
September 25, 2020 1:55 am

When it comes to hydrogen being transported by pipes – wouldn’t it just take making wide-radius pipes to allow for cheap hydrogen transport? The surface area goes to radius square, so you don’t need that mach radius increase.

gbaikie
Reply to  TomR
September 25, 2020 11:42 am

How about 1 meter diameter pipe 1/2″ steel walls and 1/2 meter diameter aluminum pipe within it also 1/2″ thick walls. And flush the steel pipe with air, as some small amount hydrogen will go thru the aluminum.
50 cm diameter or 20″ diameter 1/2″ and 30 kpsi strength allows 1000 psi air pressure- but do only 500 psi and up the pressure at station.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/barlow-d_1003.html
And just use above numbers- less than 1/3rd of methane.
1/2 meter diameter is cross section of .196349375 square meter a 1/3rd is .06544979 square meter which diameter of about 28 cm diameter.
Or difference H2 needs twice diameter pipe methane at same pressure. Or no one moves gaseous methane in truck, propane liquifies easily. But pipeline transport cheaper trains which cheaper than trucks. By cladding in steel, it seem to provide enough in terms general safety but pipelines probably something to deal earthquake- probably shutting off and probably clearing the line, testing it after earthquake is done, and the flushing steel pipe, could used for this testing purpose, also.

Craig from Oz
Reply to  TomR
September 25, 2020 3:49 pm

Tom,

let us assume for our example that you have multiple kiddlings living at Tom Manner. So many that they do not all fit comfortably or safely into your main car.

A solution would be to buy a bus, clearly.

But, you counter, a bus is very expensive and doesn’t fit under my carport.

Exactly.

There are other considerations of course to do with flow rate but ‘larger’ and ‘more expensive’ are good starting answers.

Of course the real moral of this story is to always Childproof your home BEFORE you get infested.

B d Clark
September 25, 2020 2:01 am

Boris Johnson has now shown his true green credentials, yesterday at a roundtable UN meeting he waved the flag for wind energy and hydrogen, hydrogen to power ,trucks ,trains and maybe aircraft.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54285497

Rod Evans
Reply to  B d Clark
September 25, 2020 3:47 am

When you see Boris, think Carrie. Suddenly, everything then becomes clear.

September 25, 2020 2:26 am

Many scientists in the world are unaware of the latest clean energy technology. Fortunately, an appropriate answer to the most difficult question in global hydroelectric knowledge has been discovered. This scientific answer actually means discovering a new source of clean energy for the world. Another implication of this vital discovery for the people of the world is that soon all our beliefs about the energy of the world will change. This answer is actually a new method of generating energy using a new scientific formula in physics.
How can we obtaining clean energy in a best way from the potential of water static head in dams and seas that it is very different from with the past methods?
Scientists around the world can expect good news from the German Patent Office!
(Ee>Ep+E1at) = (E>P+1at)
Ee= High pressure clean energy that is produced by the water power plants in the depth of water via released fixed potential energy of water natural pressure (More than ten meters of water) with new method (Immersion turbines of series and parallel in zero point of opposite forces).
Ep= Released fixed potential energy of water natural pressure in water depth (More than ten meters of water).
E1at= Amount of energy that is consumed at a small pump of one atmosphere power is the ability (In the same place of the water power plant in water depth).
climate change will stop!

MarkW
Reply to  Mohammad Kambiz Fatehi
September 25, 2020 8:33 am

As near as I can tell, this guy is claiming that they can get energy from the pressure of water alone.

gbaikie
Reply to  MarkW
September 25, 2020 5:26 pm

Yeah. But is he kidding or is it more tragic.

Anyhow, just be clear there no problem regarding global warming {we living one coldest periods in Earth history] and therefore we don’t need Hydrogen powered cars. It could done. It can’t done by government- but governments can’t do much of anything- other their typical mayhem, or best trying to the least as possible.

Anders Valland
September 25, 2020 2:31 am

I think you are overhyping hydrogen here 🙂

Large scale electrolysis is in use today, and it operates at something close to 60-65% efficiency. Furthermore, electrolysis is cheaper at scale, but only up to about 1000 tons/day, after which cost per kg stays the same. This will not change.

Steam reforming, which makes up about 80% of hydrogen production today, is done at around 75% efficiency.

Hydrogen losses, in the chain from energy input to usable energy output, is comprised of the following:

Conversion loss in electrolysis (35%) or steam reformation of natural gas (25%).
Conversion loss in compression: 8% (200-300 bar), 10% (700 bar), 15% (liquid)
Loss in storage, transportation and bunkering/filling: 10%
Loss in use: Fuel cell 50%

The chain efficiency from energy input to useful energy output is thus:
– For steam reforming: 0.75*0.92*0.90*0.5 = 31% 200 bar, 30% 700 bar and 29% liquid
– For electrolysis: 27% 200 bar, 26% 700 bar and 25% liquid

Mind you, I have been conservative in loss estimation here. Large scale PEM fuel cells for heavy transport applications operate at less than 50% efficiency, a survey done by the European Maritime Safety Agency looking at maritime applications places it at 45%. A consequence is that practical applications come out around 20-25% chain efficiency.

Any time you hear that fuel cells operate at 60% efficiency, bear in mind that is a net figure. It does not count auxilliary systems needed to keep the FC running. That is the mark of a immature technology, since too few actual applications are on the market for the real figures to be widely known.

The idea of the hydrogen economy is that we should be able to produce energy without any harmful effects to nature, and be able to produce energy in abundance. If we would be able to do that we could skip any concern regarding the use of energy to produce hydrogen and everyone would be happy… What is also skipped is the enormous cost related to infrastructure and handling of the permanent and unavoidable increase in risk associated with the use of hydrogen. And this is an important point, and I think you were to brief in your mention of it.

If you would go the way of hydrogen, you could go a little bit further and convert hydrogen into a new hydrocarbon – or synthetic fuel as it is also known. By doing so you incur extra cost to the fuel, BUT you avoid all extra costs to infrastructure AND you avoid all additional risk. The extra fuel cost is negligible to all the infrastructure and risk cost. Yes, I know you could make ammonia but that would only exchange extreme flammability and explosion for extreme toxicity and corrosivity. Ammonia is not the way.

You have a couple of sentences about density that might be a bit confusing. You state “The amount of hydrogen that can be stored per cubic metre of metal hydride is about 60 kg, approaching that of liquid hydrogen of 72 kg per cubic metre. But it is well short of the 100 kg contained in a cubic metre of methanol.”

I take it that you are comparing the amount of hydrogen in a cubic metre of methanol to pure hydrogen storage. That would be correct, since there are 4 hydrogen atoms in a molecule of methanol (CH3OH) and the ratio of mass is 4/32 or 1/8. Methanol density is 792 kg/m3. I thought it might be good to be specific about it.

Rod Evans
Reply to  Anders Valland
September 25, 2020 4:05 am

Anders,
Many thanks for that brief summary of hydrogen conversion and efficiency ratios.
We have to get more of this basic data into the mainstream media, we need to be active in as many media outlets as possible and at every opportunity.
The media have got to be educated into the fundamental truths about the materials they thing will provide the answer to tomorrow’s energy needs.
I have stopped counting the number of wind energy articles that present converting the occasional excess energy they produce into hydrogen as a storage “solution”. If only!
We have a lack of engineers in the media and it shows.

Carl Friis-Hansen
September 25, 2020 2:37 am

There was an engineer on RT today saying that it takes six times more electricity to use hydrogen to heat a home, compared to using an electric heat pump.
It was clear that this engineer is a Climate Alarmist, so when even he says there is nothing good about hydrogen for heating, transport, etc., there is some weight behind it.

September 25, 2020 2:55 am

“The Future of the Hydrogen Economy: Bright Blight or Bleak?”
Fixed that for them.

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