Guest post by John Droz, Jr.
We live in complicated times, immersed in a society of incessant, loud, conflicting voices. Nowhere is this more true than in the discussion of the impact of carbon dioxide on the planet, oceans, better known as “climate change.” When interested citizens try to get to the bottom of such a highly complex issue, the standard, and proper, rejoinder is: “Listen to the Experts.”
Although that sounds like common sense, such advice is not as simple as it’s made out to be. For millennia, it was safe to assume that mainstream scientists (as a matter of principle) faithfully adhered to high scientific standards (see below). In our lifetime that has dramatically (and disappointingly) changed.
Today there is an ever-increasing number of scientists driven by political agendas, peer pressure, job security, etc. rather than scientific mores. This change has extraordinary societal implications — and none of them are beneficial.
No one is policing this abandonment of scientific principles. Consider:
Not all priests are exemplary Christian — but when priests violate the rules of Christianity, they are defrocked… Not all lawyers are law-abiding citizen — but when lawyers violate the rules of law they are disbarred… Not all scientists follow the protocols of Science — but when scientists violate the proprieties of Science, they get hired by organizations to help promote their interests!
So who are the “Experts” that we should listen to? For starters it’s important to understand that “Experts” is not a homogeneous collection of people. You can divide Experts into just two very different subgroups: “Real Experts” and “So-Called Experts.”
So-Called Experts are like doctors on TV: actors who wear a white coat. They look and sound like the real thing — but clearly they are not. How do we tell the Real Experts from the Imitations?
Most people think that the answer is to look at what academic degree a person holds in which fields and how many papers they have had that are peer-reviewed. In climate science, though, that’s all a little more difficult. The field is so broad that training in one area gives you no particular benefit in others, and some people who reach across disciplines have made major contributions. As for peer-review, sadly, there has been a successful conspiracy to suppress the publication of work whose results do not confirm climate alarmism. But competence, in any event, is just the first part of being a Real Expert.
Real Experts on a science-related subject have six distinguishing characteristics, which are really no more than the traditional scientific standards:
1 – They have a high degree of competence in the topic at hand.
[For example, out of 1000 people, they would know more than 999.]
2 – They have a comprehensive understanding of the topic.
[They are not one of the blind people examining just a part of the elephant.]
3 – They are objective in their conclusions and recommendations.
[They are not influenced by economic incentives, or undeclared political agendas.]
4 – They are genuinely open-minded regarding their positions.
[They encourage other parties to critique their analyses and conclusions.]
5 – Their research and data are transparent.
[No pertinent information is hidden behind such claims as “work product.”]
6 – Their research and data are based on empirical evidence.
[Real world data always takes priority over computer-generated information.]
Clearly it would be difficult for citizens and their legislative representatives to assess all six of these for anybody claiming to be an Expert. One solution to this conundrum is to focus on just one or two of the characteristics — because if any are missing, then it is highly likely that you’re dealing with a So-Called Expert.
A good way to assess whether you’re dealing with a Real Expert or a So-Called Expert when it comes to climate change would be to see where they stand regarding essential element #4. Anyone who asserts that “the science is settled” is self-identifying as a So-Called Expert, because no true scientist (Real Expert) would ever say that.
There is another useful tactic to separate the Real from the Wannabes.
Let’s say that a group of experts – such as the scientists that countries’ politicians choose for the UN climate research panel – has made two major policy statements. Can we examine these and determine whether we are dealing with Real Experts or So-Called Experts? Maybe.
In this case the UN experts have made these two statements:
Statement A: the planet is facing imminent catastrophic, man-made global warming, and the eventual consequences will be even more extreme.
Statement B: one of the best solutions for avoiding these catastrophic results is to build and operate millions of industrial wind turbines, worldwide.
Statement A concerns a highly complex collection of interacting phenomena in the chaotic world of ocean, land, and atmospheric physics. It gets a score of 90 out of a 100 on the complexity scale, and we will not know the veracity of its claims for many years.
Statement B concerns a mildly technical engineering problem. It rates a score of maybe 9 out of a 100 on the complexity scale, and we know the veracity of those claims today!
In other words, to determine the actual expertise of these people, it is a LOT easier to assess the validity of Statement B, rather than of Statement A.
In the example cited, Statement B is provably false (e.g. see here). Therefore, since the same “Experts” made both statements, it would lead us to believe that Statement A is also suspect — and that we are not actually dealing with Real Experts.
So there you have it: two independent ways of separating the wheat from the chaff on complicated scientific matters. A generous dose of critical thinking goes a long way!
John Droz, jr., is a physicist and a member of the CO2 Coalition, an alliance of 50 unalarmed climate scientists and energy economists.
9-11-19
I am a veterinary surgeon: if I make false declarations in a professional context I get struck off.
Michael Mann is a climate scientist………
It is extremely UNSCIENTIFIC to say that if someone got one thing wrong, then everything they say can be discounted.
That being the case, Mr Watts’ website only prints drivel because in October 2019, it printed ludicrous rubbish about Russia and Europe on gas provision, trying to spin lies to justify sale of very expensive US LNG to Europe. No sentient European considered the article to be anything but typical US gangsterism….
There can be no question that any of the following have any credentials to discuss anything climate-related if they say that what was said in that scurrilous puff piece had any truth whatever: Allan MacRae, Eric Worrall, Anthony Watts, Monckton of Brenchley, Leif Svalgaard, David Middleton, Willis Eschenbach, Roy Spencer, Judith Curry, just to mention nine….
Discussion will shut down very quickly and no investigations will in future occur, because transiently incorrect viewpoints will lead to permanent disbarment from future discussions.
80%+ of scientific hypotheses are wrong and many which are transiently perceived to be correct turn out to be wrong too…
Be careful before you exclude yourselves from discussion….
Rhys Jaggar — thanks for the laugh….
Wow, the Russophiles really do get their panties in a wad anytime you expose the activities of their patrons.
BTW, do you still believe that the US is uber capitalist?
Rhys Jaggar, “ typical US gangsterism”
What European leftists, embittered yearners for lost glory, and continental snobs call the actions the US took to oppose the most vile mass-murdering ideology ever to see the light of day.
An ideology from the soil of that same Europe.
Of course Russia has never ever done anything that others might criticize. It’s only the US that does bad stuff.
Well, there are thousands of dead Polish officers in Katyn who might disagree, but I can read your sarcasm…
Joe D’Aleo has a website fact checking climate claims ACRESEARCH
https://alarmistclaimresearch.wordpress.com/2019/05/20/alarmist-claim-fact-check-update/
My synopsis
https://rclutz.wordpress.com/2019/10/23/11-empty-climate-claims/
With climate change, there are essentially two sides to the story: side A claims that man’s CO2 is a problem, and will be even more of one in the future, and side B says no, there is no real-world evidence that that is the case, and that whatever warming it has caused is beneficial, as is the increased CO2, which plants love. Side A’s claim is both extraordinary and alarmist in nature, and requires extraordinary proof. But look how they act when asked for such proof. I go with side A, and then find which experts to listen to. That was basically what I did back in 2007, when I believed the Alarmist side, mostly because that was mostly all I heard and was even aware of.
Most people I know do not understand science. There is math they cannot grasp. In fact, they have been taught that truth comes from teachers — from authority not to be questioned. Scientific facts are to be memorized. Verification — testing — of teachers’ claims is simply not allowed.
“Not all priests are exemplary Christian — but when priests violate the rules of Christianity, they are defrocked… Not all lawyers are law-abiding citizen — but when lawyers violate the rules of law they are disbarred… ”
The author makes this laughable assertion that mocks the truth – the clergy and the legal profession of full of priests who violate Christian scripture and lawyers who violate legal standards, and these people are given accolades. Check out the Pope and most members of Congress.
The large majority of those who call themselves climate scientists are suffering from the Dunning Kruger effect: they grossly overestimate their own competence. Dilletants really. I have had interactions with climate modelers and it was crystal clear to me that they are ignorant of some basic knowledge of relevant and fundamental physics to the point that some even were clueless about what I was talking about. Climatology is imho just a jumped up pretend science.
It’s never justified to psychologically diagnose from a distance, Ed.
But I’ve had the same experience as you. It’s clear to me the problem is that most climate modelers are completely untrained in any physical science.
They’re mostly mathematicians, living in a Platonic ideal, with no concept of physical reasoning and no knowledge that the physical universe is messy and does not admit of closed-form solutions.
Estimates and approximations are foreign, and perhaps anathema, to them.
When one looks at climate modeling papers, they’re all just statistics. Virtually no physics and no science. All closed form pdfs of this or that.
They’ve made a warm statistical pond for themselves, touting climate models as some sort of otherworldly essence restricted to priestly attention, and closed off from the cold critically ruthless waters of science.
Well, science has just broken in.
From the article: “[Real world data always takes priority over computer-generated information.]”
NASA Climate, and NOAA modify real world surface temperature data into computer-generated science fiction in their efforts to promote the human-caused climate change narrative.
NASA Climate and NOAA should stick with real world data and quit lying to the world about the temperature record using their fraudulent Hockey Stick temperature chart.
Real world data would show that the weather was just as warm in the 1930’s as it is today, which shows there is no unprecedented warming going on today, which means there is little or no human-caused global warming/climate change. Real World Data shows Mother Nature is the mover of the Earth’s climate.
Climate Science, would by necessity have to involve many different scientific disciplines, and would certainly be so complex that mastery would be beyond the capacity of a single human mind ?
So what passes as ‘Climate Science’ today is nothing more than a Mob style shakedown of pretty much most of scientific endeavour, with the so called climate scientists being nothing more than racketeers who have acquired the power to condemn to penury any who gainsay their pronouncements.
The real experts are often shocked, stunned, surprised, confused,confounded or fooled.
It’s like the final scene on ‘Raiders of the Lost Ark’ where Indiana Jones asks the gov “officials” what experts where working on the Ark (because Jones knew who all the experts were), and the condescending official repeated, “Top experts”. Of course the official was lying out of his teeth.
High scientific standards haven’t been around for millennia (they are actually quite new), and adhering to them has never been the norm.
I simply loved the way Dr. Droz signed his essay: “John Droz, jr., is a physicist and a member of the CO2 Coalition, an alliance of 50 unalarmed climate scientists and energy economists”. Priceless…
I am giving serious consideration to use the phrase “the unalarmed” in place of “skeptics”, going forward.
It contrasts very well with those whom I consider to guided by considerations other than what is in evidence.
The modern standard seems to be that an expert is anyone who agrees with me.
No real expert would agree with you.
It really does amaze me how long some people carry a grudge.
It really does amaze me how some people can be so gullible as to appeal to authority – argumentum ad verecundiam.
Royal Society – Climate change alarmists – government funding 67%. Nullius in verba was abandoned long ago.
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2012/06/02/royal-society-funding/
Have you found that evidence yet?
Extinction Rebellion and Greta are looking for volunteers
Once again with the absolutes.
Anyone who doesn’t agree with me 100% is totally evil and must be in league with the devil.
As to appealing to authority, you should look into your own posts before smearing others.
I see you never address the comment but go straight for the poster.
It leads me to assume you don’t actually know anything about basic physics.
Don’t you ever get tired of repeating the same B$?
Produce the evidence that back radiation from ghgs in the atmosphere is somehow radiated back to the earth’s surface and raises its temperature.
Remember, the back radiation that ghgs absorb was originally emitted by the warmer planet surface. The earth cooled off and then the ghgs warmed it up again. LOL!
The Guardian has a place in heaven for you.
The whole point is for everyone to think for themselves. To not fully trust what you hear but to not distrust either.
With that said,
If we [snip] the levels of carbon and try to take it out of the stratosphere/atmosphere…whatever…
our food will quit growing, the birds will stop flying,
Let nature worry about its creations and let’s start worrying abkut ours,like the economy for starters.
How are we gonna switch from fossil fuels with minimal disruption to our lives?
I would add the caveat that;
“Except where pertinent information is hidden for commercial reasons in which case the meaningfulness of that pertinent information is proven by commercial viability.”
“Not all priests are exemplary Christian — but when priests violate the rules of Christianity, they are defrocked”
Not quite true, they are simply moved around, to violate again.
Today there is an ever-increasing number of scientists driven by political agendas, peer pressure, job security, etc. rather than scientific mores.
Most of them are driven by one or another form of government baksheesh in the form of research grants. Which are very rarely obtainable if the research is feared by anyone to lead to conclusions contradictory to the current University/Media/Democrat herd mentality about the imminence of disaster in the form of global warming. The peer pressure and job security are just corollaries of the overall political agenda, which calls for the ultimate end of free enterprise and the imposition of government control over the economy.
For my own two cents, there are ‘experts’, then there are those that memorize all the reading, which is skewed by the fact that it seems that most people that get into the field are there because they want to be the activists that the public school system have taught them to be.
Hence, you have true-believers walking into the field with a pre-determined bias.
I often hear, ‘all the people that study it, believe in it’ – well, that’s why – at least in part.
I ask these same people – who are almost exclusively science-based ideologues – ‘does the fact that most people who study God for a living believe in Him, PROVE His existence?’
An expert is simply one who is wrong less often in his field than one who is not an expert in that field. I don’t think in the history of Man there has been an expert who was not wrong in his field of expertise at some time.
I have been around a long time, and the one thing I have learned is that the “known science” is never settled, often incomplete and fails under specific conditions, and is sometimes flat-out wrong. I have seen ‘a consensus of experts’ wrong many times, and the more they insist they are right, the more likely they are wrong.
Here are some of my views as an operational meteorologist of 37 years that trades commodities for a living using the affects of weather on energy and globally, on crops…………while trying to enlighten people about the current climate optimum on this greening planet.
Climate Reality discussions
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/27864/
Am I an expert?
I don’t know too many other people that spends every day, all day observing and analyzing weather models, studying climate, current and past………researching data and applying them using objective, critical thinking.
In the universe of today’s climate crisis, you can be wrong for 30 years and keep resetting the goal posts………..and people, who had their brains captured by your propaganda 30 years ago, 20 years ago and 10 years ago……….keep going along for the their next scary but convincing sounding anti science fake climate crisis fix.
https://www.apnews.com/bd45c372caf118ec99964ea547880cd0
In my universe of trading based entirely on the influence of weather in the real world, when you are wrong, your money goes away. Wrong too many times and it all goes away.
In the universe of today’s hijacked climate science, the climate scare does just the opposite. It generates money.
The climate scare/crisis/emergency is worth MUCH less money……..by a wide margin than the current windfalls of the climate crisis.
No thanks. I’ll make my money applying authentic science/meteorology!
Here are some of my views as an operational meteorologist of 37 years that trades commodities for a living using the affects of weather on energy and globally, on crops…………while trying to enlighten people about the current climate optimum on this greening planet.
Climate Reality discussions
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/27864/
Am I an expert?
I don’t know too many other people that spends every day, all day observing and analyzing weather models, studying climate, current and past………researching data and applying them using objective, critical thinking.
In the universe of today’s climate crisis, you can be wrong for 30 years and keep resetting the goal posts………..and people, who had their brains captured by your propaganda 30 years ago, 20 years ago and 10 years ago……….keep going along for the their next scary but convincing sounding anti science fake climate crisis fix.
https://www.apnews.com/bd45c372caf118ec99964ea547880cd0
In my universe of trading based entirely on the influence of weather in the real world, when you are wrong, your money goes away. Wrong too many times and it all goes away.
In the universe of today’s hijacked climate science, the climate scare does just the opposite. It generates money.
The climate scare/crisis/emergency is worth MUCH more money……..by a wide margin than not having a climate crisis.
No thanks. I’ll make my money applying authentic science/meteorology!
“The climate scare/crisis/emergency is worth MUCH less money……..by a wide margin than the current windfalls of the climate crisis. ”
Sorry about that.
It should say: “The climate scare/crisis/emergency is worth MUCH MORE money……..by a wide margin than not having a climate crisis. “
I’ve thought of approximately six different angles to take, for a comment.
I’m flummoxed, which make no mistake, is the intent of certain parties.
When they are sending a barrage of unsupported claims at ya, where to start the refutation ?
Defining “expert” in terms of knowledge is tricky.
999 people know the names of five local birds. I know the names of six. There are about fifty different birds in the locality.
So although I know more than anyone else, I still don’t know very much. It seems a bit silly to call me an expert.
The important question about climate experts isn’t “Do they know more than we do?” but “Do they know enough to make useful predictions?”
X is the unknown quantity and a spurt is a drip under pressure.
I would never wish to be known as an expert, maybe recognised by my peers as very competent would be plenty good enough.