News Brief by Kip Hansen
The U.S. CDC has issued one of its Vital Signs press releases that readers in the United States should be aware of, especially those living in more rural areas.
In the classic of modern American literature, To Kill a Mockingbird, the father of Scout, the narrator, Atticus Finch, a gentle and mild southern attorney, shocks his children when, at the pleading of Heck Tate, the town’s sheriff, he takes up a rifle and from a great distance, shoots and kills a rabid dog. In the 1930s, “mad dogs”, crazed by rabies, were a serious threat.
“Rabies is a viral disease that causes inflammation of the brain in humans and other mammals. Early symptoms can include fever and tingling at the site of exposure. These symptoms are followed by one or more of the following symptoms: violent movements, uncontrolled excitement, fear of water, an inability to move parts of the body, confusion, and loss of consciousness. Once symptoms appear, the result is nearly always death.” — Wiki
The vast majority of the worldwide cases of human rabies, almost always contracted from bites and scratches of infected animals, are the results of dog bites. This used to be the case in the United States, but here, through laws and regulations requiring the vaccination of pet dogs against rabies, dog-to-human rabies infection has been virtually eliminated.
Animal rabies is still fairly common in the United States, with different areas having more frequent animal vectors of the disease:
[ click here for full sized image ]
It is difficult to see in the image above, and in the full-sized image as well, but the entire country, including Alaska and Puerto Rico (but not Hawaii) is marked for the presence of rabies in bats. The Eastern Coast marked for bats and raccoons, the great Midwest for bats and skunks with the same for parts of California, with Arizona and New Mexico bats and fox or fox-and-skunks. Puerto Rico has bats and mongoose.
The CDC issues this specific warning and recommendation:
“Staying away from wildlife, especially bats, is key to preventing rabies in people. Bats carry rabies virus in every U.S. state except Hawaii, and can spread the virus year-round. However, anecdotal case reports suggest that people may not be fully aware that bats pose a rabies risk – and so they may not seek life-saving rabies PEP if they are bitten or scratched by a bat. If people wake up with a bat in the room, CDC recommends that they assume they may have been exposed to rabies and see a healthcare provider right away to determine if they need to receive PEP [Postexposure prophylaxis] for rabies.”
When I was young, rabies shots were anecdotally believed to involve a long series of [reportedly] extremely painful shots in the stomach. A historical recounting states: “The treatment consisted of 25 injections of rabies vaccine: three on the first day, two on the second, two on the third, and one each day after for 18 days. Each dose was slightly stronger, or more virulent, than the preceding, so that the body could build up immunity.”
Today the treatment is easier and can be administered by your family doctor:
Rabies shots include:
- A fast-acting shot (rabies immune globulin) to prevent the virus from infecting you. Part of this injection is given near the area where the animal bit you if possible, as soon as possible after the bite.
- A series of rabies vaccines to help your body learn to identify and fight the rabies virus. Rabies vaccines are given as injections in your arm. You receive four injections over 14 days.
I have had the experience of having a bat in the house, flying about in its rather spooky silent fashion. A workable method of getting a bat out of the house is to hold a towel like a matador’s cape, down low, and then toss it up, still spread out, into the flight path of the bat. The bat will hit the towel without hurting itself and fall to the floor. Bats cannot take flight from the ground. If the bat is still tangled in the towel, one can carefully pick up whole package (if not, capture the grounded bat with the towel, carefully), take it outside near a tree or other vertical structure, and shake out the bat gently onto the ground. It will find its way to the tree, climb up high enough to get air-borne, and fly away. Washing up carefully after any contact with wild animals is a must. The CDC says “If people wake up with a bat in the room, CDC recommends that they assume they may have been exposed to rabies and see a healthcare provider right away”.
Bottom Line:
- Bats are your greatest risk of contracting rabies in the United States. Be aware of this threat.
- All animals, domestic or wild, that are acting strangely or out of character, should be avoided and never approached — especially known carriers of rabies: bats, dogs, cats, raccoons, foxes and skunks. If in doubt, call your local animal control officer or animal rescue.
- Don’t Panic! “The U.S. averages [only] 1 to 3 human cases of rabies a year now”. Even so, if you think you may have been exposed, do see your doctor immediately.
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Author’s Comment Policy:
I love the outdoors, land or sea, and have spent a great deal of time just poking around in the wild — much to my gain. No animal deserves to be molested, harmed or killed solely because they might be inconvenient. Animals or insects that target humans and/or spread disease must be controlled, of course.
Bats are having a hard time in the United States. They have long been targeted and killed on sight by people with misconceptions and superstitions about them. In the present, many species are dying of white-nose syndrome. But while we love them, and put up bat houses for them, we must be aware of the threat of rabies that they represent.
I would love to hear your bat stories.
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Yes that is the best method for getting rid of bats from the house. I wish my parents knew that. Dad was a city boy who became a farmer. When a bat turned up they were crazy, chasing it around with a broom, while we children were terrified. I enjoyed your account of bat’s, dogs, rabies and the outdoors. When I studied microbiology I watched a film shot in India of some poor people convulsing and dying of rabies. It was absolutely horrible, horrifying, and I wondered why it was included in the curriculum. The convulsions, twitching and frothing of the mouth particularly disturbing.
I wish my father had known about this technique also. My dad was a farmer who became a city boy. Once in a while a bat would get into our house. My dad used a tennis racket to take care of the problem and the bats didn’t do to well.
Large fish net works well. What also works well is opening the window if you don’t have screens. I get them in my house all the time when window is open in summer. I just ignore them and eventually they fly out the way they came in.
It was always an exciting event for my family. I recall my mother opening the doors and sometimes the bats did fly out them. There is no way we could ignore the bats, however.
David Blackall9, R Shearer, ironargonaut ==> Thanks for sharing your bat stories here. Never had any luck with opening the doors and windows myself — nor discovered how the occasional bat would find its way in.
This thread is the most ignorant piece of crap I have seen in a long time! When we get a bat in the house, simply hop out of bed, open doors and windows, and oh my goodness ignorant people, they go outside! Duh!!!
Big T ==> Don’t know where you live but many (most) homes in the US have window screens on al the openable windows, thus that route if out for most. In the house I describe, we had screens in the summer and storm windows in the winter, that had to be put up and changed with the seasons.
Once a bat finds its way into the ointerior of the house, into rooms without a door to the outside, it can be difficult to near-impossible to convince them to go where you want them to go.
Maybe you don’t live in a house with these types of impediments to the simply opening windows and doors solution.
It is very easy.
leave clear the opening (door, window, whatever) where you want the bat to go;
stand at all other openings with the towel being waved … or just wave your arms around in the openings you want to “obstruct” (more than one person may be needed); STAY IN YOUR SPOT AND DON’T CHASE.
the bat will circle a typical the room not more than 10 times before it hits the opening that is left unobstructed (unless you are chasing it around).
[yes I said not more than 10 times … be patient & prove me wrong]
Don’s correct. I’ve had bats get in. Open a door or window and wave/throw something (towel, net) at them. Eventually, via their sonar, they will find the opening. Born in the big city, a military brat; yet grew up in the country. I’ve lived in a big city of 200,000 or more, metro area, about 1 million for just about 10 of them. Much of the time in areas of cities 100,000 or less; mostly 10 to 20,000, sometimes smaller than that, and now out in the county between municipal corporations of 15K, 7K and 3K, respectively.
cdquarles ==>The problem arises when the bat-in-the-house has found its way into a room with no outside access and no windows that can easily be opened (without screens). Like sonar, they can’t see around corners through doorways to find which other room has access to the outdoors.
Patience with a bat in the house varies between families…..
Years ago, I owned a Dive Store in Arizona. One evening, I caught a vampire bat in the store, and removed it gently outdoors. Lucky (I guess…) for me, I had already had the rabies series of shots due to an encounter with a cat that was suspected to be rabid… A series of 5 shots over a miserable two weeks (it was less fun than typhoid or yellow fever vaccinations I’ve had), purple goo and a shot of gamma globulin in the fundament that made sitting almost impossible for a day, but I survived, more or less.
I have bats living nearby now, and enjoy watching, at twilight as the feed, cheering them on to eat more mosquitos!
PM Dolan ==> “a Dive Store in Arizona” ???? Where do people scuba in Arizona? Just curious….
(We do have dive stores in upstate New York, and they often dive in lakes in Pennsylvania)
people scuba in Arizona:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Dive+Store+in+Arizona%E2%80%9D+%3F%3F%3F%3F+Where+do+people+scuba+in+Arizona&oq=Dive+Store+in+Arizona%E2%80%9D+%3F%3F%3F%3F+Where+do+people+scuba+in+Arizona&aqs=chrome.
Johann ==> Appreciate your contribution — but please don’t bother to post long links of simple google searches that readers can type in themselves.
Rather say ” Google ‘where do people scuba in Arizona’ “. However, most readers here already know how to use Google to ask questions.
I remember reclining on the roof of a riverboat on at dusk in central Borneo as it slowly chugged upriver, suddenly realizing the sky overhead was filled with thousands of fruit bats, in total silence, all flying one direction, wingspans up to 6 ft, from just overhead to tiny specks at the limit of vision. We watched in awe the evening commute from mountain caves to the jungle feeding grounds, until it was too dark to see.
Here in wollongong, NSW, Australia the fruit bat’s are numerous and congegate in one place on sunset before they set out to feed. This meeting of thousands devastates the trees in which they land. It is like a debriefing before flying out. They circle around and around. The other day I was driving past and they weren’t there, I wondered if the council had done something about eradication.
you dream, I am amazed that so many councils will NOT eradicate the damned things from city centres school zones etc especially as Lyssa virus and Hendra ar now found too often in flying fox colonies
batcrap all over one NSW schools lunch area still wasnt enough to get removals happening.
I have had a bat fly into my bedroom one summer night , I had the main doors open and it got lost, simply turned the light off ,open the windows and they tend to zip out , was fun watching the dogs wondering what the big moth was;-)
ps Lyssa is a rabies like nasty. Hendra kills horses and the odd person in contact with a sick horse.
Just be careful of their droppings and bites. They carry a virus similar to rabies.
I once camped at Mary Valley Station on Cape York Peninsula, home of one of the world’s largest little red flying fox campsites, if not the largest. I heard it was 2 million when I was there, but I’ve seen a figure of 10 million. At any rate, it was incredible. At dusk there were flying foxes from horizon to horizon. I slept in the open near a small pond, and in the morning they came swooping in for water. Yeah, I got poop on my sleeping bag, but it was worth it.
Another time I was with a group taking care of orphaned spectacled flying foxes. They were the sweetest things, they’d just hang out on your t-shirt. Sharp claws, though.
I think flying foxes are cool. Excellent pollinators and seed dispersers. I can see how they could be a pest in urban areas, though.
Kristi ==> Thanks for the camping with bats story, like it.
We have anchored in Cinnamon Bay, St. Johns, USVI and watched the Greater bulldog bat ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_bulldog_bat ) fishing in the bay in the dark (and it is really dark there — nothing but starlight). It had never occurred to me that there where bats that fished!
Fruit bats/flying foxes ==> I have seen the flying foxes that congregate in the trees of Sydney’s Botanical Gardens. Marvelous creatures.
Like almost anything — too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.
Thanks for your stories.
No worries, put some windmills along the bats flight path, the greens will support it all the way.
Those windmills really seem to work
https://www.thegwpf.com/isle-of-man-seabird-populations-plummet-as-wind-farms-overwhelm-the-irish-sea/
“Herring Gulls are down 82%, European Shag down 51%, Razorbills down 55%. The list goes on…”
A fact that the extinction morons ignore…
Windpower farms are killing bats in California as well, in the Tehachapi Mountains.
I’m in the California High Desert, surrounded by hundreds of wind turbines. Few bats survive in the area. But be aware that the tiny little vampire bat is able to jump three feet in the air and take flight from there. And there is certainly no problem for them to take of from a run. They kill millions of cattle per year, including in the US.
They are the only species of bat that even many bat scientists vote to kill off.
Keith ==> Yes, just mentioned that above. wasn’t aware the the little vampires could hop into the air….
It is my understanding that it is rabies carried by the vampire bats that is responsible for cattle deaths (and many human rabies cases as well).
We get 1-2 bats per year in the house.
One mummifoes itself in the dryer, only found it when we replaced the old units.
Steve ==> There’s one for the bat stories book!
Kip
In the UK bats are a protected species and if they roost in your house they may not be removed with a towel or by any other method. Their presence would also be taken into account if development was planned nearby.
Mind you, seagulls are also a protected species as I bleary eyed watch two of the local population on the roof opposite noisily raising their young. Perhaps I can claim that seagulls carry rabies and we can get the wretched creatures culled by way of contraception methods as in recent decades their numbers have soared.
Summer wouldn’t be summer without stories of seagulls swooping onto holiday makers and stealing their pasties.
So about this article you need to write about rabies in seagulls…..
enjoy
Michael
Thanks. So the plan is double pronged. We put seagull contraceptives in crisps whilst Kip writes about the well known fact that 97% of biologists certify that seagulls are highly rabid.
tonyb
97%????? Does that mean we will have seagull deniers… and seriously condoms in crisps…. how would they get them on…. to get serious funding you have to link this to climate change… something like 97% of seagull scientists have shown that rabies is on the increase in seagulls (especially in chip eating seagulls)Blah blah Blah Climate change Blah Blah extinction blah blah CO2 Blah Blah lack of funding ….
Tonyb
Love the idea but sooner rather than later the contraceptive crisps are going to get inadvertently served to customers while the seagulls copulate unhindered.
The resultant lawsuits should be epic entertainment.
While jetty fishing in New Jersey, I left the bait bucket with my Brother while I worked my way out further on the jetty.
My Brother, baited his hook then put the bait bucket behind him while he fished off the jetty.
By behind, I mean about two feet from his back, well within reach.
Looking back, I saw my Brother blithely fishing while a flock of seagulls were on, about and fighting over bait bucket space.
Surf and current noise prevented voice communications unless immediately adjacent to the other person. I had to climb over jetty boulders while dodging waves to get close enough to catch his attention. I knew it wasn’t good when seagulls were leaving the flock around the bucket.
There were three minnows left and no squid; but lots of loud excited seagulls.
The squid, we purchased in a bait shop about three miles away. The minnows, we had caught in shallow bay water; taking about an hour to catch enough before we hiked to the jetty.
My Brother said he wondered why seagulls were flying just a couple of feet over his head.
I took the bucket with me when I climbed back out the jetty. When the minnows ran out, I caught green crabs between the jetty boulders.
ATheoK ==> A couple of years ago, there was a pelcian, named George by local surf fishermen, who would hang around the men and women fishing and beg bait fish or “trhow-away” fish caught by the people there.
He was quite tame — and respected the bait buckets though….
Strictly speaking, it was illegal to feed him, or any of the sea birds.
michael hart ==> Thanks for that video — my wife and I had the same thing happen at a wildlife park in Florida — the culprit was a blackbird — swooped down and stole a whole unopened packet of chips from our table and flew off, other birds in pursuit attempting to steal the stolen prize!
But shoplifting seagulls — what is thew world coming to!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AffGN5OYCFY
lol
I thought someone was chucking it pieces of meat until I read the title at the end.
Allan ==> small, little bats….
“… In the UK bats are a protected species and if they roost in your house they may not be removed with a towel or by any other method. … ”
>>
This seems incredible to me that people would take that view and make law to that effect (see my tale down the page). Within oz we use <99% of the rest of Australia for bats and other defecating animals to live within. After a few experiences with bats I’m not interested in having bats perching in or around a home. Their defecating practices are vile and smells horrible on a hot day, a clear health hazard as well. I’d be seriously considering legal action for damages if I were being forced to live with bats perching in a stairwell. That law would otherwise certainly be getting broken.
WXcycles ==> Yes — the problems arise when animals and humans have conflicts of interest — and when animals threaten safety and health. The Eco Warriors have piushed through many a stupid law forgetting this.
Forget rabies. Just show the seagull knocking innocent babies birds off cliffs and eating them alive. Seagulls are actually very nasty birds. The only thing they are good for is eating the Morman crickets each spring (I know when the crickets hatch by the arrival of the seagulls) and for keeping the equipment operator at the landfill awake by swooping at him and making a large volume of squawking. They also clean up food scraps at fast food places.
I suppose those crickets ride their bikes around in pairs and come to your door to talk to you. At least that what the Mormons do around here.
R Shearer ==> Remember to invite them in for a little refreshment . . . nice kids.
tonyb ==> Hmmm….that’s an idea for a new essay…..I’d have to make thew whole thing up though, so more suited to RealClimate site….
Kip
Thanks for a nice write up on a subject that deserves it.
According to the CDC Bats are indeed the vector in “roughly 70%” of the fatal cases in the US. However as this CDC article notes, this may be because people are not aware of the risk from bats. I’m inclined to agree with that assessment. Now readers here are informed thanks to your efforts.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2019/p0611-bats-rabies.html
It was not always that way, even after dogs were immunized.
What about natural “cure” for rabies like vitamin c – rabies is nothing special to treat.
[???? .mod]
Good luck with that. Arsenic is natural.
There are sources on the internet that claim “Rabies can be cured at home by using the following home remedies like Cumin seeds, walnuts and vitamin rich diet.” and “Rabies can be cured without vaccination with natural remedies like vitamin-C and vitamin-B rich diet.”
(I won’t provide links but you know how to search for the above if you’re interested)
Some are more moderate saying that natural remedies should be used after immunization to speed recovery.
There are more rabid (!) sites/sources run by anti-vaxxers.
Darwin at work.
Pls carry on.
Natural—there’s always one in every crowd……Keeps the scammers rich, though.
Yeah, that sort of thing would “work” if one had not actually been exposed to rabies. Otherwise, think of it as evolution in action.
I’ve got one! Send children who have been bitten to a pediatric chiropractor! There is one I believe in Boise Idaho that can cure just about anything by cracking away on a child. I kid you not.
Hey natural person…check old cemeteries for the number of unnamed babies and young mothers. Filled with headstones. Natural cures can take a flying leap off a cliff.
Natural
With 1 to 3 cases of rabies per year in the US, it is a little tough to get a double-blind trial with statistical significance. It would be more like a coin toss! Why try an unproven remedy when there is a vaccine treatment readily available?
Back in the ’70s, I met a chemist who had worked with Linus Pauling. He swore by the efficacy of vitamin C for treating colds. Based on his personal recommendation, the next few times I got a cold, I tried massive doses of C. The cold took just as long to resolve as when I just slept a lot. Based on my experience, I wouldn’t put much stock in vitamin C working with rabies. If it doesn’t work, the result is a lot worse than a cold taking longer to go away.
I think that you suggesting vitamin C as a “cure” for rabies is irresponsible.
The cold virus (actually a catch-all term for a set of hundreds of viral strains) is actually rather benign. What we call the common cold is a disproportionate immune response similar to an allergy. Vitamin C is an immunostimulant and thus highly unlikely to reduce a cold’s duration, more likely to increase it actually.
The rabies virus gradually spreads from the initial infection site through the nervous system. Symptoms may not manifest for weeks. If it reaches the brain, fatality rate is in the 90th percentile due to complications (inflammatory meningitis, brain damage).
Rabies is no joke. Don’t take any chances with it.
drednicolson ==> Amen to that, sir!
Natural cures for Rabies ==> Readers — any claim that so-called natural remedies can cure rabies are FALSE and DANGEROUSLY SO. If you think, or even suspect, or even are afraid that you might have been exposed to rabies (you, your children, or pets):
PLEASE — seek professional medical attention at once.
Never ever listen to voices claiming such irresponsible ideas — you do so at the risk of your very lives.
The kids came running to get me when they discovered a bat flying around the house. I went to grab work gloves and a leather jacket (just in case of rabies). By the time I returned to the scene of the crime, the bat had flown down the stairwell from the second floor to the dining room. It was then occupied flying nice circles around the chandelier.
Despite an utterly predictable flight pattern, I was never close in my attempts to grab the bat with two hands. (I was a three sport athlete in college and the bat was far quicker than I was.)
I then tried the towel technique – which only resulted in slightly closer whiffs.
I finally retrieved our large fish landing net. I wanted to gently catch and release the bat, so my technique was to throw the large net up right in front of the bat. Hopefully he would fly straight into it since he was flying nearly perfect race-track ovals.
Instead, it looked like a cartoon, and my kids and wife were laughing so hard they were in tears. No matter how quickly I raised the net, the bat would instantaneously dodge 18″ and avoid the net. I swear the bat was making 90 degree turns while flying fairly rapidly.
I finally had to make a tennis serve motion with the net from behind the bat. He still saw it coming and dodged just enough that I caught him on the dining room table with the hard edge of the net handle rather than the soft netting.
I quickly scooped him up in my gloves and took him outside. When flying, he was about a hand & a half in size. While he was hurt in my hands, he looked just slightly larger than a field mouse as his wings were tightly tucked in. (I believe it was probably a Little Brown Myotis.)
My kids were all crowded around to get a close look. I apologized and said I had probably broken one of his wings when I swatted him out of the sky. We put him on the porch rail, and 2-3 minutes later he shook his head, got his body back into a good posture, and crawled to the edge of the rail and flew away. (The kids cheered – Dad was not a murderer after all!)
Idiot ==> Great story — great memory for your kids. Glad the bat survived.
The towel trick takes a quick hand and a steady eye….and maybe a slow-ish bat.
Only last night I was walking and admiring the elegant, silent creatures as they flitted past my head on the local canal tow-path. I suspect that they actually like to do this because large mammals tend to be a focal point for insects. I wonder if they also use human movement or sounds as echo-location beacons?
I certainly feel like I see more of them than in years gone by. If this is one consequence of a gently warming world then I am all for it.
Michael ==> When we were biys, camping in the California deserts with VColeman lanterns for light, the bugs would gather, and soon the bats to eat the, Quite a show.
One time, we threw little balls of uncooked hamburger up into the air, which they would catch, over and over.
Kip –
“No animal deserves to be molested, harmed or killed solely because they might be inconvenient.”
My wife is a gentle soul who would totally agree with you. Except that as a keen gardener she just knows that slugs are not really animals.
Unter-molluscs sounds more refined. A bit like the salt they dislike so much.
Things which eat our food don’t come very high up the pecking order in my view.
They ain’t plants!
John ==> Nothing that slimy can be a real animal….
Seriously though, we do have to be pragmatic and not let the beasts eat up the food we grow for ourselves. when we garden extensively, we would plant a few patches of lettuce and such over on one side, and let the bugs have at it there, but were merciless in our much larger patch. Such mercy did not apply to white flies….
Will bats be decimated by climate change?
All bats are off.
Ian: You are obviously not a climate scientist. If you were, you’d already know:
1. bats ARE decimated by climate change;
2. You’d already have a published article confirming your theory; and
3. the bats need to be sacrificed by wind turbines TO SAVE THEM!
Thank gaia they don’t resemble a cult.
P.S.- I got the joke, wanted to do my own riff.
paul, you are wasting perfectly good bats.
It is only the VIRGIN bats that are sacrificed upon wind turbine blades that appease Gaia.
Here in Limousin we have bat’s in our barn. Having observed them over the years I’ve come to the conclusion that evicting them is impossible, they can squeeze through the smallest gap and there are too many gaps to block. I’m rather fond of them seeing them for the first time in Spring is another sign of approaching summer, along with the Cranes flying over, swallow and cuckoos arriving.
As they eat flying insects they and the insects can be seen flying round our single street lamp. On one occasion a bat flew into the lamp and partially stun itself, but recovered enough to fly off before hitting the ground.
Ben ==> We had, and enjoyed, the bats that lived in our old stone grist mill. It was one of these that accidentally visited out dining room.
Ben, bats aren’t the only flying creatures that force themselves into buildings through small holes. A couple of years ago a Wren (bat-sized, I would say) found it’s way into my bedroom, under the eaves, though a loft space, and through an intermediate airing cupboard. It then casually flew around my bedroom, checking it out for about twenty minutes, occasionally perching on the drawers about 18 inches from my head as I watched in complete amazement. I eventually opened a window to allow for a quicker exit, but it appeared totally unconcerned throughout and in no hurry to leave. Twenty four hours later it did almost exactly the same thing again.
The occasional cases of rabies in the UK are in people who got infected on holiday in particular in Asia, and were so naive to not even think of getting help.
Rabies was endemic in Western Europe until the 1970s, carried by foxes. The early attempts at eradication consisted of shooting all the foxes, including the healthy ones. This was counterproductive, because the dead foxes were replaced from the east by a population of foxes from the reservoir of the infection in the east, countries like Poland and Russia. The much better strategy was to shoot only the infected fox and replace that animal by a healthy fox in situe. That interupts the transmission chain sufficiently to drive the disease eastwards.
E J ==> This is true in the United States as well — these cases are counted separately from those contracted at home.
A new fiber-optic cable was routed through my stairwell in a rather lax way by an NBN contractor and the result was it created a perch for small bats within our stairwell. The problem with bats is they pee and defecate all over walls and floors. They are not animals that should be anywhere with a human residence IMO.
Anyone walking up the stairs inevitably bought bat droppings into the units and this created a very annoying and disgusting mess and health hazard. The only way I could encourage them to move on was to spray the entire cable with insect surface spray. Then keep reapplying it every few months. Eventually some self-closing doors were used and we found that if only one of the doors was open they wouldn’t perch inside. They preferred two exits.
This situation (and others) confirmed that humans don’t have to and should not share their homes with wildlife which defecates within structures. Though the problem was created by the cable installers and they were not interested in rectifying the problems they created. I even considered removing it so they get the message the installation was irresponsible and unacceptable (i.e. batsh!t-crazy). To top it off only one of the units was ever connected to the NBN cable as no one else even wanted it.
WXcycles ==> Yet another type of human-animal conflict. We must be sensible about these things.
Even pet animals can be a threat to human health if the issues are not managed properly based on solid information.
Dogs won’t urinate or defecate in their beds unless too sick to move or they have no other choice (locked in a cage). And for our three dogs atleast, they use the same few areas of the backyard to do their business as long we pick those spots up every couple days. (Letting the poop age a day will dry a solid shell around it and make it much less messy to scoop.)
For rats, bats, birds, and other wild animals/vermin, the bathroom is whereever they happen to be. Rats in particular are practically incontinent. They urinate EVERYWHERE, even when scurrying around.
Here in wollongong, NSW, Australia the fruit bat’s are numerous and congegate in one place on sunset before they set out to feed. This meeting of thousands devastates the trees in which they land. It is like a debriefing before flying out. They circle around and around. The other day I was driving past and they weren’t there, I wondered if the council had done something about eradication.
Lindeman Island is a resort island in the Whitsunday Islands on the Oz great barrier reef. Shore Island is a totally uninhabited island about 4 miles south east of Lindeman. Shore has a huge colony of flying fox, [Aus fruit bats]. Southern tourists are amazed when they take off just before dusk, & fly over Lindeman on their way to their feeding grounds. The stream can be almost a half mile wide, & go on for almost an hour.
No rabies in OZ, but these things carry a virus which they can pass to horses, which then infects humans. A number of horse people & vets have died of this, as it is quick & deadly.
Shaw also has a large breeding area of the Blue Monach butterfly. Many of these large butterfly migrate to other islands & the mainland again in their thousands. For days the air is full of these butterflies flying purposefully in a chosen direction.
On one occasion I was steaming north west from Lindeman in an island ferry at about 12 knots, & was continually passed by dozens of these big blue beauties. I previously had no idea that butterflies could fly at that speed, such distances over water.
The fruit bats we have in Australia are amongst the biggest bats with wing span to around 1.00m. (Mega Chiroptera.)They roost in large numbers (up to 400,000) in bush land right across the Northern coast of Australia and down the East coast to Melbourne. They are protected (despite carrying Lyssavirus a fatal rabies-like virus), Hendra virus (which kills horses and people), Ross River fever and numerous other dangerous diseases.
We have a widespread number of bat lovers and other well meaning people who rescue ill and injured bats, and rear abandoned young bats that would normally perish. Over the past twenty odd years these folk have raised tens of thousands of bats from bay to release. They are treated like pets and being communicating mammals the word has spread.
A result of this is that we appear to have ‘domesticated’ (tamed) the species and as a result they now choose to make their roosts adjacent to human habitation, with all the attendant smells, noise and risk of disease that this entails. There are over thirty communities in Queensland alone that have applied for the expensive bureaucratic permits they require to ‘safely’ move the bats out.
As happens in climastrology, this has created a scientific and bureaucratic community that is funded to research and protect these ‘threatened’ animals despite the demonstrable risk they present to human health and well-being.
Megabats were once suspected of being flying primates, based not just on size but some anatomical details. However genetic analysis showed them to be members of Chiroptera.
As with tarsiers, monkeys and apes, some bat groups can’t make their own vitamin C, but their GULO gene is broken in a different way from ours and also from guinea pigs’ and capybaras’.
Leonardo ==> It is fairly common for kind-hearted souls to take ill-advised and, in the end destructive, actions in defense of “poor sick animals”. Like the chips stealing birds in comments above, this does not really help the animals, it only re-creates them from something natural into an artificially created pest.
Hasbeen ==> Great nature story — bats and butterflies (both of which i have written about here). Thanks for sharing!
In the Caribbean, I have seen butterflies miles and miles from land….they often stop off for a rest on the mast or stays of our sailboat.
Further at sea, in a very nasty storm, we had several small tropical birds take refuge with us — staying until the weather cleared.
We once lived in a board and batten sided house with bats living in the gaps between the boards. They would get in through knot holes in the battens. Many mornings they would awaken us around 4 AM as they quite loudly entered their den. Several bats would be flying around a knothole in the siding outside our bedroom. We surmised that no one wanted to be the first one in, since they would be at the bottom of a column of bats who had no consideration of those below them in their daily production of guano. They seemed to be milling around the hole, until someone finally went in.
Occasionally one of the bats would get into the house, and fly around at night. They were anything but silent, in a quiet house. We would awaken from the flapping of its wings, wop-wop-wop, at about one second intervals.
We quickly figured out an easy way to get them out. Our bedroom had a sliding glass doorwall, and an outside light. We would simply open the doorwall, and turn on the exterior light. They simply flew out of the room.
We finally found their entry point, with their help, and were able to keep them out permanently. One evening there was somewhat of a commotion of squeaking and flapping at the cathedral ceiling peak in our living room. Two bats were…uh…making new little bats. We started making a commotion down below, and they escaped out a small hole in the boards. We filled the hole, and none were ever seen inside the house again. It’s likely our heating bill went down, too.
Tom ==> ah, led to a solution by those &%$#$()( bats!
Good story.
@ur momisugly Kip Hansen states:
A tad off-subject, but ……..
Kip, your above statement is exactly one of the reasons why I disagree with the scientific consensus that pterodactyls or pterosaurs were both “ground-feeding” and “flying” carnivore reptiles.
Like the “flying” bats, I do not think it was possible for a “flying” pterosaur to “take flight from the ground”. Compare the following images …. and decide for yourself.
A bat with its per se “wings” outspread.
Artistic representation of a pterodactyl or pterosaur (a now extinct flying reptile) with its per se “wings” outspread.
A vampire bat walks on its thumbs, and has no slightest difficulty with a running takeoff or simply jumping straight up into flight.
I’ve seen animations of pterosaurs that show them configured, and walking, in a similar manner. Don’t “decide for yourself,” decide based upon its actual capability.
I’d encourage you uo look at videos of each (including vampire bats running and jumping on treadmills) before writing these creatures off.
===|==============/ Keith DeHavelle (@DeHavelle)
There used to be an island behind the Chandeleurs in Louisiana that had a large accumulation of non-breeding Magnificent Frigate Birds, wing span of a meter, not so magnificent when they steal from other birds. They are supposed to have the largest wingspan per body weight. It seemed to be an analog to pterodactyls. I think they require a little altitude and wind. Probably not easy (impossible?) from water, but waves can have a lot of altitude and wind. Books still say they don’t land on land, but they do have to lay eggs.
Keith DeHavelle – June 23, 2019 at 5:47 am
Length: Common vampire bat: 3.1 in.
Mass: Common vampire bat: 1.2 oz
Jumping straight up for 2 or 3 inches shouldn’t be much of a problem for a creature weighing only 1.2 oz, ……. but similar creatures that weighed 1 to 5 and upwards of 100+ pounds, with wings which were connected to the tip of their forelegs and hindlegs, respectively, that had to be held tight against their abdomen in order to “jump”, ……. sure as ell didn’t give said creature much time to getta “flapping” to create “lift” before their arse was back on the ground. Your vampire bat, to wit:
Keith, I do not believe it was aerodynamically possible for pterosaurs to fly. With a strong wind they could probably get enough “lift” to get off the ground. But bat skeletons and pterosaur skeletons are totally different in bones that support the out-stretched “wings”.
I believe that pterosaurs were “non-flying” predator lizards that used their per se “wings” to feed in shallow waters in the same fashion as the Black Heron does when it is “fishing”. A long neck, large head, long pointed beak w/sharp teeth are characteristic of a shallow water “wading” predator.
Keith and Sam ==> I don’t know about the pterosaurs — but have always agreed with the Wiki quote above. In my experience, I have never run across a bat that could take off flying from the ground.
Even the largest pterosaurs could take off from level land by pole-vaulting into the air with their powerful forelimbs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRk_OV2cDkk
Their anatomy was very different from bats.
Sharing its habitat with T. rex, Quetzalcoatlus couldn’t have survived on the ground unless it could launch itself just by leaping. It couldn’t run fast enough to escape the giant predator.
And yet Witton and Habib concluded that pterosaurs took off quadrupedally, as do bats. Birds, being bipedal, launch from their legs alone, which less powerful take off method limits the size of flying birds.
http://markwitton-com.blogspot.com/2018/05/why-we-think-giant-pterosaurs-could-fly.html
John Tillman, getta clue, ……. there are several species of aquatic (sea) birds that can’t get airborne via use of their legs alone. They are like 98% DEPENDENT upon the wind lifting them up into the air and keeping them airborne.
When there is no wind a blowing, ….. the albatrosses can’t get off the ground or water.
Google is your friend, use it before posting silliness.
John and Sam ==> Your disagreement may just be a matter of exceptions to the near-universal cases.
MOST bats need to have a vertical drop to get airborne — but the little vampire bat can do a run – hop – run – hop thing and manage to get flying.
Samuel,
You could get a clue by actually reading what pterosaur experts have discovered. Please study the links I provided.
Birds, including long-winged sea birds, use an entirely different method of take off from pterosaurs. They are bipedal, so laucnh bipedally. They are not a model for quadrupedal take off by flying vertebbrates with enormously large and powerful forelimb muscles. As anyone who has ever eaten a chicken wing knows, bird’s flight muscles aren’t in their wings (arm) bones, but attached to their sterna, ie their breasts.
Bipedalism limits the size of flying birds. Pterosaurs weren’t subject to the same limit, thanks to their different take off method.
Azhdarchids and other pterosaurs’ bone walls were very thin, and they had air sac breathing systems, like those of birds and saurischian dinosaurs. No one knows how much they weighed, but please read what has been found out about their flight capabilities rather than spouting off out of ignorance.
Animal flight simulating software shows that even a 250 kg azhdarchid could have flown in today’s atmosphere. As to how it got airborne, the video provides the answer. It could leap or vault high enough to spread its wings and start flapping.
Witton’s colleague Habib has recently been working with Henderson, the advocate of 500-kilo, hence, non-flying, azhdarchids, toward a compromise, in which the biggest pterosaurs became progressively more terrestrial as they aged.
Kip,
It’s not just little vampire bats, but medium sized fruit bats which are capable of ground launch. But again, neither avian nor chiropteran anatomy and bioenergetics are good models for pterosaurs.
https://www.inverse.com/article/33199-biggest-flying-animal-ever-pterosaur-azhdarchid-quetzalcoatlus
But IMO, even the giraffe-sized azhdarchids would have been too slow on the ground to survive the largest theropod and croc-relative land predators. And with their meaty forearms, what a tempting morsel they’d have made.
Kip, I acknowledged that in my above post.
Being only 3” long and 1.2 oz in weight, the little vampire bat can hop high enough to get sufficient “ground clearance” for flapping its winged (webbed) legs.
I don’t think just flapping their webbed legs perpendicular to their body’s length will get them off the ground. Surely, they have to “reach” upwards and toward the front of their head with their outstretched front legs so that “lift” is created when the legs are pulled backward and down. (kinda like paddling a boat) And if so, then their back legs are also “pulled” upwards and toward the front by the conjoined webbing. Thus, iffen they didn’t “hop” before “flapping”, ….. they would jerk their feet out from underneath them and fall flat on the ground.
Samuel ==> I managed to find an actual video of the little vampire running hopping running hopping and getting flying. Linked somehwere here.
John Tillman – June 24, 2019 at 3:41 pm
Pterosaur “experts”, …. HUH? ……… “Discovered”, my arse. …… The only thing they are “expert” about, …. like the experts in “climate science”, ….. is their use of computer “modeling” software to obtain the “results” that justify their “junk science” claims, to wit:
Yup, all sorts of “facts n’ evidence”, …… right John T?
John Tillman – June 24, 2019 at 3:41 pm
Brilliant, ….. John Tillman, …… simply BRILLIANT.
Claiming that “flying” pterosaurs had … “enormously large and powerful forelimb muscles” ….. that both ends of said muscles were attached to the long, slender, very thin-walled forelimb bones, …. instead of an “anchor” attachment to a sternum bone, ….. means that said enormously large and powerful forelimb muscles had to expend considerable amount of “energy” just lifting themselves upward at each “flap” of their wings.
And iffen their forelimbs (wings) outweighed their body (torso), ….. then it would have been their body that was “flapping” up n’ down iffen they ever got airborne. And having an extremely large, heavy head/beak and an extremely long, heavy neck, that weighed more than their body, would have assured their “nosedive” into the ground.
Shur nuff, ….. and I betcha those “trackways” led straight into/from the shallow waters of their “feeding grounds”.
John Tillman – June 24, 2019 at 3:41 pm
Computer modeling software “will show” results of whatever it is “coded” to show, ……. SISO.
Tillman, ….. you imagination is going from bad to worse.
“DUH”, many of the herbivore dinosaurs were much, much larger …. and a lot slower …. than the largest theropod dinosaurs ….. and they all survived together until atmospheric CO2 began “dropping-like-a-rock” just prior to 66 mya.
Tillman, quit blowing smoke at me and hoping to win your argument. One has to know how an “entity” works/functions before they can generate useful “computer modeling software” that will mimic how said “entity” functions with slightly different “input” parameters.
Samuel.
The smoke blowing is all yours.
I showed how pterosaurs did it. They weren’t birds or bats.
Their quadripedal gait and take off run, with 110 pounds of forelimb muscles, can be shown to be energetic enough for launch.
All you have is baseless assertions.
John Tillman – June 26, 2019 at 8:14 pm
OK, John, ….. assuming you are correct for a moment, …… please explain to me why those “flying pterosaurs” would quadripedally run/hop down the SAME trackway each and every time they wanted to “take off” for another flight?
”HA”, iffen there wasa big flock of pterosaurs on the ground and a pterosaur-eatin-predator got after them, ……. getting “take-off” clearance woulda been a problem, …… right?
John, now there are quite a few NON-FLYING quadrupedal animals that create and consistently use “trackways” to obtain food and water ……. but no known “flying” animal does.
John Tillman, instead of arguing with me by claiming that your “mentors” are …. right as rain, ….. you really need to ask yourself the question, …….. “Why would evolution, via gene mutations, create an animal species with the physical attributes that the pterosaurs had?”
What “survival advantage” did extremely large …. toothed beak, …. head, …… and long neck, …. (that their combined length was greater than its torso), ………with its (torso) extremely long forelimbs and short hindlimbs with their connected “skin flaps” …… afforded the pterosaurs?
John Tillman – June 23, 2019 at 11:26 am
By pole-vaulting, HUH?
And just how HIGH would that dude hafta jump to keep from beating its wings on the ground when attempting to get airborne, ….. given the fact it was 3 m (9.8 ft) high, with a wingspan of 11–12 m (36–39 ft)?
And what about the “pole-vaulting” antics of the giant azhdarchids pterosaurs that is estimated to have been 10 m (32 ft 10 in) in height and a weight of around 200–250 kg (440–550 lb)? HA, those were Boeing class pterosaurs, fer shur.
Tennis racquet is very effective.
Tom ==> Shotgun, too, I suppose. But unnecessarily harmful. A little compassion is in order for these lost little beasts in your dining room….
Atticus Finch is not the narrator of the book. Scout is.
Brian ==> Good literary catch! It should have read “the narrator’s father, Atticus Finch…”
Well done!
I was exposed to an old bat daily for several years. Then she moved back to New York with the rest of her family, problem solved.
Tom ==> I hope you are not speaking of your sainted mother that way….
Neighbor.
As for the PEP shot series, I can attest that it was not fun in the past. While in Vietnam, myself and about a dozen others, were exposed to rabies by an infected puppy. Those of us who’d petted the pup and had scratches on their hands were required to take the 14-day series of shots. There wasn’t enough serum in-country for the entire series for all of us so an emergency shippment had to be sent out from the States.
The shots were administered in one of the quadrants around the navel just under the skin. The shots really started to hurt when they started returning to a quadrant for the second and thrid time. Not fun. From what I read, the current series of shot (3-4) is much easier on the patient.
I grew up in NE Wyoming and rabies in the skunk population was always a worry.
Don Bennett ==> Thanks for the first hand report on the old fashioned rabies shots I remembered from my youth. Sorry you had to go through that, glad you survived to tell the story.
We occasionally notice a bat under wedged into the space between the outside chimney and the wood siding. Spraying the area with WD40 not only discourages that practice, but also gets rid of any spiders and wasps which like to do the same thing.
Also had to deal with a flying squirrel inside the house. These guys have steel coil springs for feet and can leap tall buildings in a single bound. Finally caught it in a Havaheart trap. They also carry rabies…
Yirgach ==> The CDC mentions various squirrels as possible vectors, but has had no confirmation. They state definitively “Small rodents like squirrels, hamsters, guinea pigs, gerbils, chipmunks, rats, and mice) and lagomorphs including rabbits and hares are almost never found to be infected with rabies and have not been known to transmit rabies to humans.”
I love flying squirrels and they often inhabit our attic — where they are noisy and make a mess. Used to wear a flying squirrel tail in my hat-band of my Scoutmaster hat as a “feather”.
Flying squirrels are more a worry for Endemic Typhus, the real typhus not the LA Murine Typhus. Best not to have flying squirrels in the attic:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001177.htm
There used to be flying fox ‘zoos’ here in Queensland and I have fond memories of having large flying foxes hanging onto my hair and holding my fingers. That was before Lassa, Nyssa, and Hendra viruses were understood to be prevalent. Sad that such close encounters with such interesting animals are now verboten.
Dave ==> Thanks for the heads up on typhus and flying squirrels. I actually caught one of ours in a live trap and tried to make a pet of it — but it was far to nervous and had to be released.
Readers: Link to typhus im America:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickettsia_prowazekii
We had a bat in the house some 15 years or so ago, and our house is an open concept one, so chasing it around proved fruitless. It dawned on me that if we could get it into the bedroom, the only room (besides the bathroom) with a door, that would be my best bet at capturing it. After chasing it a while, running downstairs and up, it finally went into the bedroom and I followed it in, armed with gloves and a towel. It would fly around a bit, then land, and I would try to sneak up on it, whereupon it would take off again. It then occurred to me that perhaps I could tire it out, so as soon as it landed, I would be over to it, and it would take off. After about ten minutes of that, it did tire out, landing, and I was able to scoop it into the towel, open the window (closeby), and toss it out. The whole ordeal may have taken 45 minutes. The cats were mightily interested at first, but they gave up after a while.
Bruce Cobb ==> Thanks for the story — tire ’em out! Sounds like a plan.
There is a much easier (and safer for both the bat and you) way to get rid of an indoor bat.
Waving a broom scare, the bat into a room of your house with lots of windows (two people waving brooms works even better) close the door to the room. Then open all the windows (removing any screens). The bat will be gone by morning.
I’ve done it a dozen times. The only time it didn’t work was when the bat somehow got into the basement.
I now live in Houston. You will occasionally see small colonies of bats rising from peoples attics A bridge downtown has 250,000 living underneath it. In the hill country there is a million bat colony in downtown Austin. And subsidiary colonies in many of the bridges throughout central TX. We live with bats around every day without any rabies or panicked dashes to the doctor.
Before I moved back to the US we lived in SE Asia where there are enormous bat fill tree colonies everywhere. Without them the load of disease bearing insects would be unbearable. Walking in the quiet residential streets at night in Jakarta was interesting because there was almost always a bat swooping by your head. And then there were the giant Foxbats….
So chill the American panic. It’s wildly overblown.
William ==> Works great when windows have easily removable screens and you’re not in a hurry.
I have read about the bat colonies under hiway overpasses in Texas. do they make much of a mess?