The Laughable Ocasio-Cortez’ New Green Deal goes AWOL from the Internet

Sometimes, something is just so over-the-top stupid, that you have to disappear it. That’s what has happened to Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, with her “New Green Deal”, which made “greenhouse gas reductions” down to ZERO the centerpiece of her policy. It was so ridiculous, so embarrassingly bad, that it had to be disappeared:

Fortunately, the Internet never forgets:

The now disappeared FAQ on AOC’s House.gov website stated that the program will:

“We set a goal to get to net-zero, rather than zero emissions, in 10 years because we aren’t sure that we’ll be able to fully get rid of farting cows and airplanes that fast.”

The FAQ, which Ocasio-Cortez’s office removed from her website amid online backlash (although it is still available on NPR’s website) additionally stated:

IPCC Report said global emissions must be cut by by 40-60% by 2030. US is 20% of total emissions. We must get to 0 by 2030 and lead the world in a global Green New Deal.

“This is a massive transformation of our society with clear goals and a timeline” at a “scale not seen since World War 2.”

Let. that. sink. in.

But then, there’s this gem:

Economic security for all who are unable or unwilling to work

Riiiiight. All the templates of a wealth redistribution scheme, right there.

Of course, she’s been excoriated, and rightfully so, from both sides.

The stupid  in this case, it burns white-hot like a magnesium fire.

But maybe it doesn’t matter, because after-all, according to AOC, the world will end in 12 years anyway.

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Tom Halla
February 10, 2019 1:11 pm

Confirming all the cliches about the green blob in one swell foop? So the movement is a fascist socialism designed by people ignorant of both economics and technology?

Joe H
Reply to  Tom Halla
February 10, 2019 1:27 pm

Tom, all fascists are socialists. Hitler always described himself as one and Mussolini was former chairman of the Italian Socialist Party and editor if its newspaper. Most recruits into the SA came from Marxist organisations. Left wing academics have made great efforts to hide or obscure from the public the socialist background and beliefs of the N*zis. There’s another aspect of them they hide as well that was a significant factor in their particular cruelty.

Henning Nielsen
Reply to  Joe H
February 10, 2019 2:12 pm

SA recruits came from Marxist organisations? No doubt some did, but they could hardly have been socialists by the time they happily clubbed and killed German social democrats and communists.

And Hitler’s party is called NSDAP; n for national, no hint of international communism there. And the name existed before Hitler joined. Likewise, Mussolini changed from one extreme to the other, his fascist party was not socialist. If you need proof, just check out the assisinations of Italian left-wingers.

n.n
Reply to  Henning Nielsen
February 10, 2019 11:52 pm

They were competitors. They were all left-wing by American standards, in that they pursued establishment of minority governments. That is the American right is libertarian and the American center is Constitutional or conservative. The Nazis indulged in diversity or color judgments (e.g. racism). They denied individual dignity. They are the inspiration of such concepts as “Jew privilege”, which today is relabeled “White privilege”. They were politically congruent and selectively excluded people. They advocated for redistributive change. They carried out social justice adventures without borders (e.g. elective wars, regime changes). They were Pro-Choice/selective/cannibalized-Jew, etc. They planned or aborted lives they deemed unworthy. The Nazis, fascists, and similar, were in principle left-wing.

Kyle in Upstate NY
Reply to  Henning Nielsen
February 11, 2019 1:20 am

The idea that because the Nazis killed socialists, that they thus were not themselves socialist, would be like saying that because Sunni Muslims kill Shi’ite Muslims, then therefore the Sunni Muslims are not actually Muslims. Socialists are fanatics oftentimes the same way these other religions are. They don’t care if you agree with them on 95% of things, you deviate in one way and they’ll cut your head off.

John Endicott
Reply to  Kyle in Upstate NY
February 13, 2019 9:48 am

+42

oebele bruinsma
Reply to  Henning Nielsen
February 11, 2019 1:26 am

Mr. Nielsen The distinction Left vs Right is not valid when taking into account that both systems are using the same symbols, language and control methods. Left and right denominations are out of date: As we have people who love to control and people who love much less control, when in a majority will rule or govern according to their preference. Less control means smaller governments, less regulations, better education and independent thinking. These “things” are virtually absent in controlled systems (Orwell).

Matthew Drobnick
Reply to  oebele bruinsma
February 11, 2019 6:47 am

I prefer collectivist vs individualist, most accurate

Joel Snider
Reply to  oebele bruinsma
February 11, 2019 12:16 pm

‘I prefer collectivist vs individualist, most accurate’

Well, ‘Marxist’ is the common root. And collectivism is a central tenant.

Koen
Reply to  Henning Nielsen
February 11, 2019 3:48 am

How about the second letter for a hint? That stands for socialist.

Joe H
Reply to  Henning Nielsen
February 11, 2019 9:28 am

Henning, wrong on a number of counts I’m afraid. The party Hitler and Roehm joined was called The German Workers Party. In 1920 (I think) Roehm and Hitler renamed it the National Socialist German Workers Party. Why national? Because they were distinguishing themselves from the international socialists (Trotskyists). The greatest enemies of them were Marxists and Social Democrats both on either side of them on the political spectrum.

John Endicott
Reply to  Joe H
February 13, 2019 9:46 am

Indeed, Adolf Hitler and Ernst Röhm both joined the German Workers Party (DAP) in 1919, whereas the party changed it’s name to the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP) on 24 February 1920 (the same day Hitler publicly outlined the party’s 25-point manifesto for the first time in a speech at the Hofbräuhaus in Munich).

beng135
Reply to  Henning Nielsen
February 11, 2019 9:33 am

they could hardly have been socialists by the time they happily clubbed and killed German social democrats and communists.

It’s called “eating your own”. Socialists/marxists do it sooner or later.

MarkW
Reply to  Henning Nielsen
February 11, 2019 10:41 am

The economic policies of both Hitler and Mussolini were 100% socialist.
You’ve drunk the left wing kool-aid that proclaims anything bad is right wing, therefore since Nazi’s were bad, they must have been right wing.

John Endicott
Reply to  Henning Nielsen
February 12, 2019 12:43 pm

but they could hardly have been socialists by the time they happily clubbed and killed German social democrats and communists.

The far-left always eats it’s own.
That and Kyle in Upstate NY’s Sunni vs Shi’ite analogy applies as well.

And Hitler’s party is called NSDAP; n for national

don’t stop at the first letter. The second, the ‘s’, stands for sozialistische (translation to English: socialist).

If you need proof, just check out the assisinations of Italian left-wingers.

Again, the far left always eats its own. By your login, Stalin wasn’t a communist, just check out the assassinations of his fellow communists.

Fascism of the Early 20th century was a movement that grew out of the left. That’s an historical fact no matter how much you wish to revise history to make it otherwise.

Reply to  Henning Nielsen
February 22, 2019 5:57 pm

Socialism is the umbrella term, which is the opposite of Free Markets/Capitalism. The defining characteristic of socialism is that it calls for the power of the state to be above the rights of individuals.

Under socialism, there are numerous variants, some with such tiny differences as to be laughable. Communism, marxism, nazism, fascism, progressivism, welfare statism, crony capitalism, and many more, all are forms of socialism. That one group hates another group, whether with the same or a different variant title, is beside the point.

What’s in a name. Would not a socialist by any other name still be as stupid?

Joey
Reply to  Joe H
February 10, 2019 4:00 pm

Correct. Hitler was named “Man of the Year” in 1938 by Time Magazine. They noted Hitler’s anti-capitalistic economic policies:

“Most cruel joke of all, however, has been played by Hitler & Co. on those German capitalists and small businessmen who once backed National Socialism as a means of saving Germany’s bourgeois economic structure from radicalism. The Nazi credo that the individual belongs to the state also applies to business. Some businesses have been confiscated outright, on other what amounts to a capital tax has been levied. Profits have been strictly controlled. Some idea of the increasing Governmental control and interference in business could be deduced from the fact that 80% of all building and 50% of all industrial orders in Germany originated last year with the Government. Hard-pressed for food- stuffs as well as funds, the Nazi regime has taken over large estates and in many instances collectivized agriculture, a procedure fundamentally similar to Russian Communism.”

(Source: Time Magazine; January 2, 1939.)

Sounds like the DNC

Dave Fair
Reply to  Joey
February 10, 2019 6:47 pm

Oh, fer Christ’s sake, Joey, use today, not yesterday, to analyze current political policy proposals. We all know that Hitler, Mao, Pot Pol, President Wilson, Stalin, etc. advocated deviant, people-killing policies.

Today’s deviant, people-killing policies are deficient on their face: They will result in our spending on imaginary, impossible to prove future problems, while shortchanging the very people that would benefit from targeted spending on measures to reduce poverty and malnutrition. History has no parallel.

Duker
Reply to  Joey
February 10, 2019 10:34 pm

It wasn’t socialism… Germany had it’s own real socialist parties, the SPD and KPD (communists) which Hitler crushed.
Hitler’s party’s name was a play on the word social , which in its original meaning just meant ‘allies’ and the German usage was a compound word Nationalsozialistische , which had a completely different meaning to the word socialist in English, which is the reason it was abbreviated to Nazi, a virulent right wing ideology.

n.n
Reply to  Duker
February 10, 2019 11:55 pm

A rabid left-wing ideology by modern left-wing standards.

Menicholas
Reply to  Duker
February 11, 2019 12:31 am

It is fascinating the mental gymnastics that some people will employ to try and hold to the fiction that Nazis were congruent with the political right in the US.
Or that at the time and the place they existed in, they represented the conservative/right side of the political spectrum.
It is a lie, invented after the defeat of Nazis.
Maybe to place them as far away from the Democrats in power in the US at the time?
The sophistry that is used every time this comes up is incredible. Do not believe what they say about themselves or call themselves.
Do not give any weight to the fact that they employed policies and tactic identical to the modern left.
Focus on things like that they got rid of their own useful idiots, as all socialist regimes must do once established.
Because there are always people who naively believe the rhetoric used to seize power, and help it happen, and they must be eliminated to consolidate complete control.
Cannot have people around who want to toss out the leaders when things are not going the way it was advertised.

f.c.
Reply to  Duker
February 11, 2019 12:56 am

So…seizing the means of production is not socialist? Nsdap always had that in their 12(?) point manifesto-look it up. Hitler’s right hand wanted to implement it, while Hitler himself disn’t wanted to do so right away. A year after coming to power, Hitler ordered the assasination of that said second in comand, together with 100 other people, the night of the long knives. Nsdap was socialist in it’s core, different than communism(not internationalist), but socialist nationalist. Listen to Hitler speeches, how he talks about the ordinary worker, and how each must be supported etc.

Reply to  Duker
February 11, 2019 4:17 am

Yes, we know. “Real Socialism” has never been tried – we’ll get it right THIS time! Just have to kill a few more million (or billion) people…

DonM
Reply to  Duker
February 11, 2019 9:56 am

Duker, it doesn’t matter how deluded a person is, or if their rationalization includes Left Vs. Right; socialism is always forced system that has no logical outcome, other than less & less & less freedom. “Socialism” is a tool to control people … to force them into something they wouldn’t willing do. In the end it is no different than fascism.

DocSiders
Reply to  Duker
February 11, 2019 4:15 pm

There was absolutely NOTHING right wing (viz conservative with emphasis on individual rights) about NAZZISM you stupid socialist idiot.

The NAZZI government controlled EVERYTHING. How the hell is that conservative or right wing.

You are either unbelievably stupid or irretrievably evil….or both.

Red94ViperRT10
Reply to  Duker
February 13, 2019 7:16 am

…socialist parties, the SPD and KPD (communists) which Hitler crushed…

Of course Hitler crushed them, every good cutthroat dictator makes sure to eliminate the competition. And remember, the “competition” is not the one offering a different product, the “competition” is the one offering the same product under a different name.

John Endicott
Reply to  Duker
February 13, 2019 10:00 am

It wasn’t socialism…

Yes it was. Not only is it in the name, it’s in the 25-point manifesto, it’s in the policies the party pushed for an implemented, and it’s in the numerous speeches Hitler gave. That you are ignorant of all that is your own problem.

Germany had it’s own real socialist parties, the SPD and KPD (communists) which Hitler crushed.

Of course Hitler crushed those other parties, they were the competition. You see the same thing in every country in which one socialist, fascist, or communist party takes over, all other competitors are crushed.

which is the reason it was abbreviated to Nazi, a virulent right wing ideology.

Sorry, but learn some history. Fascism a rose from the left-wing socialists of the early 20th century. socialism and fascism are both virulent left-wing ideologies (and thus so was the Nazis, the most virulent form of those virulent left-wing ideologies).

Curious George
Reply to  Tom Halla
February 10, 2019 2:45 pm

Is “Mein Kampf” laughable?

Tom Halla
Reply to  Curious George
February 10, 2019 2:56 pm

No, but AOC is. Amused contempt is all the Green New Deal deserves.

Aidan Donnelly
Reply to  Tom Halla
February 11, 2019 3:10 am

Read it alongside the UN’s Agenda 2030 manifesto, amusement may vanish fast.

2hotel9
Reply to  Aidan Donnelly
February 11, 2019 7:26 am

I am still amused, slightly more than when I read the UN crap when it was released. Of course NGD is totally plagiarized, they lack the mental capacity to come up with anything original.

Dave Fair
Reply to  2hotel9
February 11, 2019 8:51 am

Including the UN IPCC SJW boilerplate.

Reply to  Tom Halla
February 11, 2019 7:08 am

People, such as dingbat AOC
( Alexandria Occasionally Coherent )
who call climate change
“an existential threat”,
are science-denying
imbeciles.

Johann Wundersamer
Reply to  Curious George
February 10, 2019 3:01 pm

No, it’s boring.

Every german household had to own 1 copy min.

The allied troops often found “mein Kampf” in the households, shiny new, obviously never opened to read.

bonbon
Reply to  Johann Wundersamer
February 11, 2019 7:12 am

Yeah and the book was banned untill recently. Very embarassing when you read of the fertility of the soil, lebensraum and look at the Green manifestos! The same!
Green is the new Brown. AOC’s GND is about mass murder – genocide pushing the polulation to pre-industrial levels as Dr. Schellnhuber, CBE of PKI procalimed with decarbonization.

Its exactly what Germany is doing with the WBGU, a neo-Morgenthau Plan – de-industrialization, never mind de-diesel.

TonyL
Reply to  Johann Wundersamer
February 10, 2019 3:27 pm

Johann Wundersamer posts yet another link to Google.

Johann Wundersamer: We all know all about Google. There is no need to post links to it any more. To be sure, many of us choose not to use Google at all.

If you have a web site you would like us to see, you could post a link to that site directly.

Schitzree
Reply to  TonyL
February 10, 2019 4:09 pm

For the life of me, I can’t even figure out what he was trying to show. Something about radio propaganda?

>¿<

commieBob
Reply to  TonyL
February 10, 2019 4:13 pm

It baffles me that he posts a google search, not a web site. Anyway, here’s a link.

One of the search results is a wiki article on a radio manufactured with the express purpose of receiving propaganda.

… dictatorship differed in one fundamental point from all its predecessors in history. His was the first dictatorship in the present period of modern technical development, a dictatorship which made the complete use of all technical means for domination of its own country. Through technical devices like the radio and loudspeaker, 80 million people were deprived of independent thought. It was thereby possible to subject them to the will of one man…

People learned to read between the lines. My favorite:

I realized how much trouble we were in because all our great victories kept getting nearer to Berlin.

Johann Wundersamer
Reply to  TonyL
February 11, 2019 5:06 am

Thanks, commieBob.

+++ all thumbs up!

2hotel9
Reply to  Johann Wundersamer
February 10, 2019 4:21 pm

Dude, you are clearly not getting the hint, post the link to what you want people to see not the search for it. Can’t say it in any simpler terms.

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  Johann Wundersamer
February 10, 2019 9:57 pm

You’re wasting our time, Johann. Please take a course on How To Cite Internet Links.

Menicholas
Reply to  Johann Wundersamer
February 11, 2019 12:42 am

Correct.
I am not even going to open the second one, after the first was a search engine page for a company I wish I could never ever patronize, and everything was in German, besides.
For one thing, everyone sees something different when entering the same words on Google.
And they heavily filter results, in many cases so inanely it is sickening.
There was a Tweet a few weeks ago where someone posted a bunch of search terms that when typed into a google search gave results so bizarre it was difficult to believe.
Using google for search these days is like using Snopes to fact check a Republican politician, or Wikipedia to learn the truth about Climate change.
You get pure propaganda.
Anyhow…
I read enough Deutsche to get that it was some particular sort of radio.
You could just say what else it is they found, Johann.

Johann Wundersamer
Reply to  Curious George
February 11, 2019 4:10 am

https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung&q=jews+ich+w%C3%A4re+so+gern+ein+Hitlerjunge+geworden+english&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZjLr80bPgAhVptosKHWeHCIUQBSgAegQIBxAC&biw=360&bih=560

Yes TonyL ev’ryone can google since there’s Internet and google.

But when you don’t have the slightest idea what to google for

what good is it to give you google.

Reply to  Johann Wundersamer
February 11, 2019 10:50 am

What is the matter with you?

John Endicott
Reply to  Johann Wundersamer
February 13, 2019 5:55 am

Johann , Re-read tony’s post as you clearly did not understand it the first time.
There’s no need to post links to google (with or without search terms added). We all know about google, we all know how to use google, so stop linking to google as you are accomplishing *NOTHING* by doing so except giving people a reason to ignore anything you might be trying to say.

You want to say something with a link , then post a link to the SPECIFIC PAGE you want people to see. No one cares about what search engine you used, what search terms you used or what the search results of those terms on that engine were. They want SPECIFIC information that can only be had from giving SPECIFIC links.

Johann Wundersamer
Reply to  Curious George
February 11, 2019 4:28 am

Yes, Schitzree. As you say

Schitzree February 10, 2019 at 4:09 pm
For the life of me, I can’t even figure out what he was trying to show. Something about radio propaganda?

>¿<

You can't even figure out what's shown here.

Regards – Hans

John Endicott
Reply to  Johann Wundersamer
February 12, 2019 12:55 pm

Everyone can see you posting links to google searches. Such searches give multiple links (all of which will not necessarily be relevant for what you were hoping to find with your search terms). If there’s something you want people to see, give them the link to the actual page, not the google search that includes the link to the page because
1) it’s rude to force people to go to google and sift through search results in the hopes of finding the information you are trying to convey to them, particularly in light of the fact that many people despise google and want nothing to do with it (there are other, less controversial search engines out there)
2) it’s lazy to try and get others to sift though the links to find the one you want them to read rather than you doing so and then linking the specific link.

don’t be so rude and lazy

Johann Wundersamer
Reply to  Curious George
February 11, 2019 5:19 am

commieBob, Wir alten Kämpfer!

Dennis Kuzara
Reply to  Tom Halla
February 10, 2019 3:41 pm

Minted on the edge of all the silver 2 and 5 Reichsmark coins of Nazi Germany is “Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz” which translates roughly to “The community comes before the individual”.

What political party is best described by this inscription?

Don Jindra
Reply to  Dennis Kuzara
February 10, 2019 4:09 pm

“The community comes before the individual” — A good case can be made that both political parties are best described by that inscription.

Dennis Kuzara
Reply to  Don Jindra
February 10, 2019 4:52 pm

What political party is BEST described by this saying?
There shouldn’t be any argument on which group is approaching 100% socialist.

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  Don Jindra
February 10, 2019 9:55 pm

Wrong.

Menicholas
Reply to  jorgekafkazar
February 11, 2019 12:52 am

Not wrong.
Right.

John Endicott
Reply to  jorgekafkazar
February 13, 2019 11:09 am

Sorry, but not right, 100% wrong.

Menicholas
Reply to  Dennis Kuzara
February 11, 2019 12:51 am

Everything about the left in the US today puts the group ahead of the individual, and group identity the defining aspect of each person.
Political correctness, intersectionality…you name it…take away the rights of the individual, personal responsibility, personal property, free press, free speech, right to defend oneself and be armed, limited government power and dispersal and decentralization thereof…and everything else that represents the progress that out system has made for the past 1000 years. And replaces it with the opposite.

John Endicott
Reply to  Menicholas
February 13, 2019 11:11 am

This on the other hand is spot on.

JRF in Pensacola
Reply to  Tom Halla
February 11, 2019 12:22 am

Tom, in a word, yes, and in so much more!

Technical, Financial, Social, Political, Unintended Impacts of AOC Green New Deal

I just turned 70 and am claiming an Elder Privilege. Paraphrasing Anthony, sometimes something is so out in left field, it defies Logic and Common Sense and requires comment. And some questions. So…..

Technical:
1) First, this proposal must go through administrative procedures, cost/benefit analyses, environmental reviews (big issues here!), various reviews of the final proposal, public comment, and legal challenges (more big issues!!!) which will take 10 years in itself even with Trump Administration efforts at reducing regulations. Will AOC call for suspending the regulations that some have use for so long to delay or defeat projects they deemed unacceptable?

2) We are going to transition generating capacity off fossil fuels in 10 years? Really? Then we must:
Design and build cost effective alternative generating system. Are solar/wind/hydro good enough to provide reliable power at scale? They can generate power but all are subject to environmental conditions. Can we design and build a storage solution in 10 years that works? We definitely need a backup system that must be maintained and that cost has to be included somewhere. Will it be fossil-fueled or use Nuclear? And, note that the system will be even larger because of the added transportation load to the grid. And, will this system be more centralized? Is that wise? And, if solar is a big part, will we rely on rare earths from abroad or allow mining our own resources? Will foreign sources even allow such a drain on their resources?

Design and build a cost effective transmission system. This requirement is bigger than realized. More on this topic later.

3) We must transition building infrastructure. More on this topic later.
4) And, transition transportation infrastructure, presumably, from hydrocarbon to electric while eliminating aircraft? What about shipping? And, what about travel to islands, between continents, time sensitive cargo such as medicines, disaster relief? Is there any way to duplicate the speed of aircraft? Defense aircraft? Space programs?
5) Is this proposal Efficiency at any price? And what of social, political impacts and Unintended Consequences? (Discussed later)

Economic/Financial:
1) First, all initial cost estimates are likely underestimated because they usually are for large-scale programs and because of unintended consequences and the cost to individuals. Add in compliance costs. Then, add:
2) Cost to build new generation system and maintain reliable backup capacity; need more capacity if transportation is added to the load; land acquisition costs.
3) Cost to build new transmission system to get power from production site to user; again, land acquisition costs.
4) Cost of building retrofit; impact on materials’ costs like lumber/steel demand
5) Cost of transportation transition. Costs associated with decreased range and increased delivery time of people/goods/services.
6) Cost of social programs: free healthcare, college, basic income for all
7) Geographic financial shift? Money moves!

Social:
This proposal includes a variety of “social programs” many of which are wealth redistribution programs. But:
1) What about social impacts? We have always been a mobile society; and currently, we move people and things under our own control, almost at will. What happens when we are restricted in that movement? Will government mandate the restrictions and what happens after that?
2) People are moving from high-tax states to lower tax states now. Will people move for more desirable weather or vacation opportunities like Disney, Universal, Sea World etc. if they can’t travel like they have in the past?
3) The “American Mind”, as John Adams said, is one of freedom and adventurer/explorer, can we transition to less freedom and “mental” adventurer/explorer from “spatial” one?
4) And, what of job changes? Job declines will hit the oil/gas, auto, and maybe the hospitality industries (travelers fuel the hospitality industry). And Job increases will be huge in construction but where will this demand come from? Immigration? The “unwilling to work”? Remember: all of these changes will hit within 10 years! What will be the unintended consequences?

Political:
1) If more people move, how long before it affects redistricting and reapportionment? That’s happening now between high-tax and low-tax states.
2) Again, will government restrict movement to “protect” the Green New Deal?
3) What of the geographic financial shift? How will that affect political entities?
4) How “reversible” will the program be if found unworkable? What’s the parachute?
5) Potential for civil unrest? Unrest is a big unknown.

Two Rules of Unintended Consequences:
1) Always occur so expect unforeseen technical, financial, environmental, social and political consequences. Can these be resolved at all, much less in 10 years?
2) The bigger the change, the more and bigger the unintended consequences
The most concerning unintended consequence may be civil unrest. Reference: France with a simple rise in a tax. Stress on the civil population because of the drastic changes required in this proposal is much greater. The population may see material/product shortages from a manufacturing shift to a “war-time” footing as companies retool to make the things necessary for this proposal . Such was the case in WWII. Remember: 10 years!

So, ten years? Maybe 100 years! IF, scientific proof emerges that shows CAGW is a reality which, in my view, has not occurred. And what of places that have enjoyed warmer weather and of places that have remained cool? Cooler may be ok for the warmer areas, but do the cooler want to get colder? I suggest continued study: improve methods and statistical analyses, improve models and databases, and by all means encourage debate, not stifle it!

Ivan Kinsman
Reply to  JRF in Pensacola
February 11, 2019 12:28 am

The Dems are on to a winner here with this proposed Green Deal. Obviously it will be impossible to get down to zero emissions of carbon but a “greenprint” is needed in the US, just as there is one in Europe, for phasing out the use of fossil fuels wherever and whenever this can be done.

The Millenials think very differently to grumpy old white men who are Trump supporters in the main it seems. They are very aware of what is happening on environmental issues and are now prepared to act on this awareness, both through public demonstration and at the ballot box. If the GOP continue down the path of denying AGW even exists and refusing to take action to mitigate its effects, then that is a large proportion of the Millenial vote lost (I am a 56 year old white man so not a Millenial and definitely not a Trump supporter).

Menicholas
Reply to  Ivan Kinsman
February 11, 2019 12:57 am

Wrong.
Watch what happens here instead.
Americans are not sheep, easily led to slaughter.
We and a few other countries have time and again had to come to the rescue after the rest of the world went insane.
I am not so sure we will make huge sacrifices next time.

JRF in Pensacola
Reply to  Ivan Kinsman
February 11, 2019 1:54 am

Ivan, you make many assumptions, or state opinions, in your response which you are free to do. But, although Caucasian, I am not grumpy and I said I just turned 70, not that I was old as many of the younger generations have learned on the basketball and tennis courts! Whether CAGW exists or not is still debatable. The science is not “settled” and that comment, with “consensus” science, has not proven very successful in history.

Regardless, the proposal by AOC requires a critical analysis of its specifics, just as any sweeping government proposal should (Democratic, Republican, Independent, Liberal, Conservative or otherwise) and my comments list areas that I believe should require examination.

We are an innovative people and at least some of the problems listed have resolutions but whether practical and cost-effective is unknown. But, in 10 years? With the world ending in 12 years, when her proposal will have no world impact within that time frame, and probably never. How does that save the world?

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has been elected to the House of Representatives and deserves the respect of her office but she is learning a lesson, that her fellow (older) Democrats are likely reinforcing, and that is what the IBM sign in my office says: THINK.

Polls, and I do not necessarily trust polls, frequently find that voters will like an idea but support drops dramatically when the requirements and consequences of an idea become known. Even with “millennials”.

But, respect your opinion, as well as Menicholas’s.

Ivan Kinsman
Reply to  JRF in Pensacola
February 11, 2019 2:12 am

Thanks for the balanced response – something you don’t see much of here if anyone dares to believe in the AGW phenomenon.

I agree that AOC’s plan is not perfect and is open to criticism. However, what I like about it is that it has got people talking about the issue and at least is getting the American voter to think about whether some kind of deal like this is needed either now or futher down the line.

MarkW
Reply to  Ivan Kinsman
February 11, 2019 10:50 am

When you promise free stuff, you can always count on the support of those who don’t want to work.

Ivanksi actually believes that most everyone agrees with him.
Then again, that’s what usually happens when you refuse to associate with anyone who disagrees with you.

Dave Fair
Reply to  MarkW
February 11, 2019 11:57 am

Really? That Nixon fellow was elected? No one I know voted for him.

John Endicott
Reply to  MarkW
February 13, 2019 11:59 am

Indeed, that Obama fellow was elected and most everyone I know didn’t vote for him (the one exception being my lefty nephew-in-law).

Aidan Donnelly
Reply to  MarkW
February 14, 2019 3:32 am

@John Endicott – amazing phenonemon, in 1945 the Allies couldn’t find a single person in the street that was ever a Nazi or who voted for them in 1933.

beng135
Reply to  Ivan Kinsman
February 11, 2019 11:58 am

The Dems are on to a winner here with this proposed Green Deal.

Hilarious — thanks for the laugh.

MarkW
Reply to  beng135
February 11, 2019 4:50 pm

Everybody he’s willing to associate with likes it, which proves that almost everyone likes it.

D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  beng135
February 11, 2019 5:39 pm

@beng135;
My God, I thought he was joking!!

Menicholas
Reply to  JRF in Pensacola
February 11, 2019 1:15 am

In order for any of the GND to even start to work, the people in the US will have to agree to give over complete control of every aspect of our lives to people like a delusional 20 year old bartender.
We will have to allow confiscation of our vehicles and perfectly good homes, abandon jobs and entire industries and allow confiscation of vast amounts of property and the holdings and interest of most of the largest employers and most economically important industries.
All the airlines, gone, Boeing, gone, the oil companies and support industries, gone…
No cows, means slaughter of every herd in the country, and we must assume they mean no pigs as well, so no more bacon, milk, cheese, ice cream, beef, leather…and all the ranchers and dairy farmers, well, I suppose they are all gonna have to learn to code.
Or swing a hammer.
The entire idea is so preposterous and absurd it is becomes possible to imagine that AOC is a white hat troll, sent to sabotage Democrats.
Rebuild everything and clean up the environment at the same time as we eliminate all of the energy sources we now use, except the ones that are known to be net absorbers of energy, and use vast amounts of materials that can only be obtained using fossil fuel intensive vehicles and factories, and would require unprecedentedly large amounts of every single ingredient in a house, car, train…and BTW also get rid of the source of the protein that hard working people need to stay fit strong and healthy?
Give everyone a job, and free everything from cradle to grave for those who do not choose to work.
Tax the rich more and ramp up the printing presses while destroying the wealth creation ability of the economy at the same time as confiscating and replacing everything with bright shiny new stuff.
The entire thing is almost too ridiculous to bother to talk about…it is from top to bottom a list of impossibilities. Except for one thing…and that is that every democrat running for President in 2020 has signed onto the proposal…and those people know how to steal elections.

Marilyn Reed
Reply to  Menicholas
February 11, 2019 2:54 am

What I love is how AOC and Bernie live high off the hog….him with his mansions and her with her designer clothes and accessories but then want the rest of us to live like we’re in The Flinstones. Do you think the elite will give up airplanes, or will that just be for us peons.

Ivan Kinsman
Reply to  Marilyn Reed
February 11, 2019 2:58 am

And what about that arsehole Trump who had his own private plane, Trump Tower, his old boys’ oligarch club Mar-al-Lago, his several golf courses that he cannot stop advertising as President – wow, he really does live high off the hog (compared to this individual’s consumption, Bernie and AOC are eating breadcrumbs)!

Marilyn Reed
Reply to  Ivan Kinsman
February 11, 2019 3:04 am

What about Trump? Trump isn’t telling us the world will end in 12 years if we don’t stop GW or Climate change or whatever they are calling it today. I happen to love America and our way of life more than I hate Trump. Those who have gotten rich (including Bernie & AOC) are entitled to their money if they got it legally. I don’t have a problem with people getting rich…my problem is with people who get rich but who want the rest of us to be peons that they can control and then they act like they are so above us and that we are “all equal”…obviously they are more equal than the rest of us & if you believe the Bern & AOC or any of these other socialist/communists (like Maduro or the late Fidel) really want us to all be equal then you have been DUPED big time.

Ivan Kinsman
Reply to  Marilyn Reed
February 11, 2019 3:11 am

What the f*** are you talking about them wanting “everyone to be equal”.

What they are insisting on is that that be a fairer distribution of wealth from the top (i.e. the super-rich) down to the bottom, given that the income gap has widened considerably in America. Basically the rich are getting even more rich and the poor are getting poorer. You might have an issue with that but there are many Americans – particularly the ones who voted for a Democrat-controlled House – who don’t.

I admire businessmen like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet who have made their billions and are then willing to plough much of it back into society for the better good (and strictly auditing projects where they know their hard-earned $s will make a difference). However, there are far too many super-rich who just want to spend their $s on conspicuous consumption – Trump being one of them.

https://mankindsdegradationofplanetearth.com/2019/02/03/forget-philanthropy-the-super-rich-should-be-paying-proper-taxes/

Marilyn Reed
Reply to  Ivan Kinsman
February 11, 2019 3:52 am

Why don’t you tell me what happens then in countries like Venezuela and Cuba when they moved to “socialism” which is what they call it but as was stated by Lenin “the goal of socialism is communism” and it will happen here also if we move down that road more and more. Class struggles will not get people anywhere good. But clearly we totally see the world differently. By the way I’ve been to Cuba a dozen times, so I’ve seen it up close an personal.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Ivan Kinsman
February 11, 2019 8:42 am

Who gets to decide a fair distribution, Ivan? Hard-headed private philanthropy is a boon. Ham-handed political handouts is a disaster.

Socialism’s track record is not good.

old construction worker
Reply to  Marilyn Reed
February 11, 2019 3:53 am

“Bernie and AOC are eating breadcrumbs)!” Bernie has never worked in the private sector. how did he become a multimillionaire? And, I Don’t think they is eating breadcrumbs.

A C Osborn
Reply to  Marilyn Reed
February 11, 2019 4:31 am

Mr Kinsman, you do realise that President Trump is currently working as the President for NO PAY?
You sir do not live in the same world as the rest of us and your “anger” comes across very clearly, I suggest you try getting your information from different sources.

Ivan Kinsman
Reply to  A C Osborn
February 11, 2019 4:33 am

Get my sources from the same places as you do, and like your’s they say this man is going to jail by 2020 🙂 Biggest unethical sleaze ball to ever have the privilege of holding the Presidential Office.

Marilyn Reed
Reply to  Ivan Kinsman
February 11, 2019 6:13 am

Well, Ivan, just go on living in your little socialist bubble dream world if it makes you feel better. Yes, I held my nose and voted for Trump because I knew Hillary well enough to know she was going to be one of the worst president ever. I figured if Trump did half of what he promised he’d be light years better and I have been pleasantly surprised with what he has done. Still not crazy about him and I am glad to call him out when I disagree… So it would seem quite a few people are wising up and walking away from the socialist, baby killing, tree hugging Democrats. Even this Never Trumper: https://theresurgent.com/2019/02/11/ill-be-voting-for-president-trump-and-vice-president-pence-in-2020/?utm_source=Insightly&utm_campaign=0f8ac262f6-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_02_11_12_25&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_198a5324d1-0f8ac262f6-269759745&mc_cid=0f8ac262f6&mc_eid=87e4bc6116

2hotel9
Reply to  Ivan Kinsman
February 11, 2019 7:29 am

Keep investing your emotional capital in that fantasy, it is all you have.

MarkW
Reply to  Marilyn Reed
February 11, 2019 10:52 am

Once again, Ivanski demonstrates that his primary motivation is hatred towards those who have been successful.

Trump isn’t trying to deny others the right to improve themselves, the way AOC and Bernie are.

MarkW
Reply to  Marilyn Reed
February 11, 2019 10:53 am

Yup, Ivanski hates people who are successful and wants government to take their stuff and give it to people like him.

MarkW
Reply to  Marilyn Reed
February 11, 2019 10:55 am

There is a total of one person who’s saying that Trump is going to jail by 2020, and that woman hasn’t had any connection to reality in decades.

As usual, Ivanski is so consumed by hatred towards those who have been successful that he can no longer think straight.

drednicolson
Reply to  Marilyn Reed
February 11, 2019 5:10 pm

If the gap between rich and poor has grown, it’s because of meddling by socialist do-gooders. Income tax bracket creep (finally put to an end by Reagan) and the stealth tax of constantly inflating new money into existence–all to pay for the virtue-signalling social-program-of-the-week, have fleeced the middle class for decades. Far more former middle-class citizens drop into the working poor than climb up into the noveau rich. Socialist policies purport to be the solution to the very problems they create. It’s an alluring idea that never works.

That so many otherwise intelligent and capable people continue to claim they will work THIS time, speaks to the strength of socialism’s siren song. Chasing utopia like an addict chases the high.

It’s intellectual meth-amphetamine.

Reply to  Menicholas
February 11, 2019 10:57 am

thumbs up to you Marilyn Reed February 11, 2019 at 3:04 am

John Tillman
Reply to  Menicholas
February 12, 2019 12:15 pm

Not just cattle and pigs, but all major methane-producing mammalian livestock, especially other domestic ruminants like sheep and goats, plus their many wild kin, such as the roaming deer and antelope.

Three stomach (rather than four) near ruminants, like hippos, also produce a lot of methane.

John Endicott
Reply to  JRF in Pensacola
February 13, 2019 12:13 pm

JRF in Pensacola one very major hurdle for the GND that I don’t hear much talk about is the rules regarding creating new entitlement programs also include budget cuts or tax increases to prevent an increase in the federal deficit. It’s not just the house rules (which AOC was opposed to, is there any wonder why) but the PAYGO legislation that they’re based on. There isn’t enough stuff in the budget to cut and you can’t raise taxes high enough to pay for everything in the GND. massive deficit spending is required. Even if congress was to waive the PAYGO rules (as they have done for a couple of other pieces of legislation) the size of the deficit required will likely cause considerable political opposition even among democrats.

JRF in Pensacola
Reply to  John Endicott
February 15, 2019 2:44 am

John Endicott, good practical points regarding congressional rules and PAYGO! My little list of issues and questions should be considered just that…..little. So much else swirls around the GND!

Aidan Donnelly
Reply to  Tom Halla
February 11, 2019 3:08 am

This looks astonishingly like the UN’s Agenda 2030
This may be as it is planned to be realised in the USA, and the DumboCommies have
‘spilt the bean’s’ – sometimes the saving value of the stupid is that they are honest.

Goldrider
Reply to  Tom Halla
February 11, 2019 7:22 am

What gets me is that all the news-wonks are discussing it as though it was a serious possibility. It’s SO bad I can’t even believe the Dem. party would let her publish it. It reads like a GOP parody of climate alarmism, penned by a second-grader high on bubble tea and Adderall. Thank God at least Trump refuses to take it seriously.

Nik
February 10, 2019 1:14 pm

The junior-high-school caliber wish list deserved mocking. The creepy, totalitarian aspects had some calling it the Soylent Green New Deal.

kenji
Reply to  Nik
February 10, 2019 2:30 pm

My kids Jr. High science teacher told my kids to re-educate their parents about the imminent destruction of the planet earth … if their parents didn’t stop “WASTING”; energy, earth’s resources, etc. The wife and I told our little darling to just nod, collect their ‘A’ and recognize that Those who can’t … teach. And Those who refuse to work at all … get FREE STUFF from She Guevara’s America

Spuds
Reply to  kenji
February 10, 2019 6:14 pm

Wasting energy? I guess putting countless gigawatts into the production of so called “green” energy facilities that intermittently produce 1/1000 of the energy used for their existence is a good way to save the planet? Somebody has to round these “teachers” up and send them on a one way cruise (via container ship) to places like Venezuela!!

Cynthia
Reply to  kenji
February 10, 2019 8:12 pm

Kudos to you for not making your little darling fight battles that belong to adults.

Menicholas
Reply to  kenji
February 11, 2019 1:20 am

I would be hard pressed to keep my kids in schools where such propaganda is pushed nonstop.
I was mostly self taught as a child, and was always way ahead of any regular levels of ability at each grade.
Why go to a school where the teachers are stupid robots that are actively harming children?

MarkW
Reply to  Menicholas
February 11, 2019 10:56 am

All 4 of mine were/are homeschooled.

John Endicott
Reply to  MarkW
February 13, 2019 12:22 pm

A good choice for those with the time and ability to do so. Not everyone is so fortunate.

If I had school age kids, I certainly would not want them in the local public school. It would have to be either homeschool or private school. If we couldn’t afford the later we’d have to find the time for the former.

Troe
February 10, 2019 1:16 pm

May 2 2020

The people’s response

This isn’t Venezuela Ocasio Maduro

Prepare to receive

Larry in Texas
February 10, 2019 1:20 pm

I certainly hope AOC makes herself unforgettable with this crack-brained scheme, so that voters will remember her when they have to consider who to vote for in 2020.

Andy Pattullo
Reply to  Larry in Texas
February 10, 2019 3:26 pm

I agree. Maybe she is part of the mythical Russian/Trump axis of evil and her job was to undercut any credibility the Democrats had going into the next election. Is there a Steele dossier on her as credible as the one on Trump? Has she ever drunk vodka or tasted caviar – sure signs of working for Putin.

Bryan A
Reply to  Andy Pattullo
February 10, 2019 6:45 pm

At least she won’t be able to run for President for 2 more terms (in NY NY). Although she will turn 35 on 10-13-24, NY State registration to run cuts off 10-12-2, the day before she turns 35.

Bryan A
Reply to  Bryan A
February 10, 2019 6:47 pm

Wrong dates, not for her birthday but to register

Bryan A
Reply to  Bryan A
February 10, 2019 6:54 pm

Looks like the latest date to file are in in Mississippi, Arizona, Kentucky or Rhode Island and their cut off dates are in September, far before AOC turns 35

MarkW
Reply to  Bryan A
February 10, 2019 7:30 pm

All that matters is that she has to be older than 35 by inauguration.

Bryan A
Reply to  Bryan A
February 10, 2019 9:25 pm

And be naturally born, and have resided in the states for the last 14 years

Menicholas
Reply to  Bryan A
February 11, 2019 1:24 am

There is a reason we do not elect children and the mentally deficient to run the country.

Bryan A
Reply to  Bryan A
February 11, 2019 10:24 am

Then how on earth do they keep getting reelected???

Menicholas
Reply to  Bryan A
February 11, 2019 10:50 am

It remains to be seen if AOC will be re-elected even once.
She just took $10 million from Netflix for the documentary rights to her elections campaign, even as she is fighting to keep Amazon from bringing 25,000 new high paying jobs to her district…and almost unimaginably huge economic infusion to a underprivileged district.
She has gotten a lot of attention, and maybe she will keep flying high…and maybe not.
She is, after all, an economic and policy illiterate sock puppet.

Bryan A
Reply to  Bryan A
February 11, 2019 9:55 pm

She needs her district to remain poor because if they were middle class her message would carry little if any weight. And if they were mildly upper middle class they would be negatively impacted by her Green New Deal and she would lose favor

John Endicott
Reply to  Bryan A
February 13, 2019 12:28 pm

The age restriction is for *HOLDING* office, not for running for office, so what matters is not how old she is when registering (or running her campaign), but how old she will be on inauguration day (when she would be sworn in). And she will be 35 by the time Jan-2025 rolls around. She’s perfectly eligible to run in the 2024 presidential election (assuming she’s still on the political landscape by then)

D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  Larry in Texas
February 11, 2019 5:54 pm

@Larry;
There is almost no way she will not be elected. Half her district is Hispanic. “She’s one of us”, they will say, and obediently pull the lever. The district is 18% white, and Crowley was the last person of non-color who will ever hold that seat. In the last 3 presidential elections, the Demonrat candidate received 77% (2016), 81% (2012), and 76% (2008). Yes, after the disaster that was Obummer, his margin went up by 5 percentage points in round 2! She is attached to that Congressional seat like a barnacle, and no amount of hammering, chiseling, or blow-torching will dislodge her.

John Endicott
Reply to  D. J. Hawkins
February 13, 2019 12:36 pm

You assume she won’t ever face a person of color in the primary or the general elections. While incumbents are hard to beat, it’s not impossible or unheard of it happening. Crowley was an incumbent (and pretty high in the party hierarchy to boot) and he was defeated in the primary (he wasn’t the only one. History shows that many of Dem and Rep incumbent has failed to win their parties primary). And there’s plenty of examples of incumbents losing the general election, even in districts that traditionally don’t favor the party whose candidate beat them. All it takes is for her to fall on the wrong side of an issue that her constituents care about. Her opposition to the jobs Amazon would bring to her district could be such a issue (it remains to be seen).

D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  John Endicott
February 14, 2019 2:44 pm

Unless she really steps in it, I can’t see anyone mounting a challenge to her. Crowley lost because he phoned in his campaign. She is delivering (or attempting to) everything she promised. Presumably her constituents will be warm and cozy with that. If the national leadership tried to run a more “compliant” candidate in a primary, there would be political blood in the streets.

2hotel9
Reply to  D. J. Hawkins
February 15, 2019 6:48 am

What, exactly, has she delivered? All I see her doing is spewing a bunch of semi-literate leftist crap, spoken at a elementary school level. Any street vendor working in her district is far more intelligent than Accusatory Occasional-Cortex is and they damned well know more about economics, taxation and infrastructure than this twit does. She is so empty headed and vacuous it is actually painful to watch.

Scarface
February 10, 2019 1:21 pm

Sounds more like a RED Old Deal

RonPE
Reply to  Scarface
February 10, 2019 5:35 pm

Or a New GreeD Deal.

Robert
Reply to  RonPE
February 10, 2019 6:13 pm

Let’s just hope that if it ever gets enacted that minorities will not be excluded the way that they were the last time a Democrat came up with a New Deal for America.

Matthew Drobnick
Reply to  Robert
February 11, 2019 7:04 am

Well then I’ll becomw a Jew so I can reap all the benefits of minorites, while still actually being white, and never be able to be fairly criticized duty my worldview or behavior because… Anti-semitism!

What a great little niche I’ll create for my family. I’m not kidding either. It’s the only way of be able to protect what I have

John Endicott
Reply to  Matthew Drobnick
February 13, 2019 12:46 pm

You may find there a little painful experience waiting for you if you weren’t circumcised as a child.

But putting *that* issue aside, you might wish to look at where the backers of the GND sand in regards to anti-semitism. Many of them (including AOC herself) have been supportive of Congresswoman Ilhan Omar after her anti-semetic remarks and/or are friendly with Louis Farrakhan (well known for his anti-semitism) and Linda Sasour (another left-wing anti-Semite). so being Jewish rather than being your key to minority status might make you twice as unwelcome to the Green New Dealers as simply being white would.

Keith
February 10, 2019 1:25 pm

“…we aren’t sure that we’ll be able to fully get rid of farting cows and airplanes that fast.”

Twenty-four years as an airline pilot and I never knew airplanes farted.

Craig Moore
February 10, 2019 1:27 pm

Architect Of Crazy is giving ding bats everywhere a bad name.

markl
February 10, 2019 1:28 pm

What do the Democrat constituents think about the direction(s) of their party these days? Between wasting time on trying to impeach Trump, character assassinations of everyone not a Democrat, holding the government hostage over the border wall, and crazy pronunciations like the Green New Deal you have to wonder what they’re doing to actually help the people.

ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N
Reply to  markl
February 10, 2019 3:04 pm

Help the people..? Those are 3 exceedingly toxic words for Democrats and not in their vocabulary or job description.

Red94ViperRT10
Reply to  ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N
February 10, 2019 4:45 pm

That might be a feature, not a bug. Since the 8 scariest words in the English language are, “We’re from the government. We’re here to help.” So don’t turn them loose to “help” me!

John Endicott
Reply to  Red94ViperRT10
February 13, 2019 12:49 pm

The actual quote was:
“The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the government and I’m here to help.” – President Reagan Aug. 12, 1986

ShanghaiDan
Reply to  markl
February 10, 2019 7:55 pm

You got it wrong…

It’s not “Help the People”

It’s “Help yourself to the People”

They get to take what they want, when they want, including people.

Alexander Vissers
February 10, 2019 1:29 pm

The conspiracy theory would dictate that OC is a Republican agent infiltrated into the Democrats to deter voters.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Alexander Vissers
February 10, 2019 2:13 pm

OTOH, the Republicans are not nearly clever enough to have done that.

Editor
Reply to  Alexander Vissers
February 10, 2019 2:55 pm

No, she’s a Russian plant. That goes along with Rachel Maddow’s conspiracy rants.

Sara
Reply to  Walter Dnes
February 10, 2019 7:51 pm

Welll, she IS a plant, fer sure, but something more like a teasel plant than a politic worm.

JEHill
Reply to  Sara
February 10, 2019 8:13 pm

Sara,

Thank you for that!

“She’s a plant.” , priceless.

Yep she’s a vegetable….
Laughing so hard I am tearing-up….LMAO

February 10, 2019 1:30 pm

I would like to think that WUWT articles and comments had something to do with it’s disappearance…
It was so ultimately stupid and communistic, etc.

Reply to  Jon P Peterson
February 10, 2019 1:32 pm

its

Menicholas
Reply to  Jon P Peterson
February 11, 2019 1:32 am

Twitter is why.
Hundreds of millions are on Twitter, including the politicians, media people, news networks, and “influencers”.
The smart and relevant ones anyhow.
Anyone not on Twitter is late to every party.
I have only recently come to this realization but I am pretty sure of it.
The entire Twitterverse lit up like a Christmas tree the instant her FAQ page was made public.
I was checking here, but did not see any article posted about it for many hours after it started, and by then the FAQ page was removed.

Neo
Reply to  Menicholas
February 11, 2019 9:20 am

“influencers” LOL More like leeches

All those “influencers” who went to the faux Fyre festival.

Menicholas
Reply to  Neo
February 11, 2019 10:19 pm

Hey, don’t get mad at me.
I never went on it until about a month ago.
But it is easy to see that lots of people are on Twitter.
You can talk to people directly, that otherwise you just read about in the news.
Every breaking news story is seen immediately.
I am not talking about Beyoncé, BTW…I am talking about people from here and news people and politicians and business people…there are scads of people with hundreds of thousands of followers.

Rud Istvan
February 10, 2019 1:33 pm

GND sure exposed the AOC watermelon.

Joel O’Bryan
Reply to  Rud Istvan
February 10, 2019 2:27 pm

An inside out watermelon.

MarkW
Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
February 11, 2019 4:52 pm

And seedy to the core

Krishna Gans
February 10, 2019 1:37 pm

Most Greens of the beginning has been communists, many of them are still.
Watermelons, outside green, inside red.

February 10, 2019 1:38 pm

Mr. Watts, you just don’t get it. That draft was a work in progress. It is a starting point. The Democrat-Socialists will refine it, hone it, make it better. In fact, it’s getting better all the time. Better, better, better. Getting so much better all the time.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Rick Rigazio
February 10, 2019 2:15 pm

kenji
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
February 10, 2019 2:41 pm

… it can’t get no worse …

Lennon contributed the pessimistic viewpoint, coming up with the line, “It can’t get no worse.” McCartney usually wrote much happier lyrics than Lennon.

Well … if the world is gonna END in 12 years … I’d say … it can’t get no worse

Menicholas
Reply to  kenji
February 11, 2019 1:36 am

I had never realized before how few lyrics that song has.
Without the “can’t get no worse” line, the song would have been sappy watery crap.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Rick Rigazio
February 10, 2019 5:32 pm

Rick,
It is a good thing that the new cars that we buy aren’t a work in progress! It is better to not release it until it is ready for prime time. That saves a lot of embarrassment!

MarkW
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
February 10, 2019 7:33 pm

Someone needs to tell that to the guys at Tesla.

MarkW
Reply to  Rick Rigazio
February 10, 2019 7:32 pm

Most competent organizations wait until the product is finished and approved before publishing it.

Latitude
February 10, 2019 1:42 pm

…the gift that keeps on giving

AOC for president…….

Garland Lowe
Reply to  Latitude
February 10, 2019 1:52 pm

I hope you are correct, I never thought Obama would get elected a second time.
I was wrong.

Bryan A
Reply to  Garland Lowe
February 10, 2019 7:18 pm

Fortunately not until 2028 at the earliest and she will only have unit 2031 to mess things up before the end. Or kick the goal posts out another 12 years.

Jules
February 10, 2019 1:43 pm

I have watched her a couple of times on youtube, she does come across as a tad dense. Has her success had anything to do with being attractive then?

Pierre Vallieres
Reply to  Jules
February 10, 2019 1:57 pm

Just like Justin Trudeau here in Canada, Mr. Selfie.

Jules
Reply to  Pierre Vallieres
February 10, 2019 2:09 pm

Yes indeed a vainglorious omega man, who has sold your country down the toilet. Mine cannot be far behind.

‘The Islamic Party of Ontario registered last year for the province’s elections and advocates a theocracy for Canada governed by Sharia law.’

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/will-canada-be-the-battleground-between-progressives-and-islam/

Serge Wright
Reply to  Jules
February 11, 2019 2:05 am

The love of Islamism by the green left is not well understood by capitalist conservatives. The reality is that this is a dirty deal with the devil to remove democracy. The green left understand all too well that if you can bring down the democratic pillars of freedom by creating a society at war with itself, then the opportunity to install totalitarianism is enabled. Importing large masses of people with extreme opposing views to those of the host country is the perfect weapon. Casualities in the bloody civil war that follows are a necessary means to and an end, even if some of their fellow green disciples perish along the way.

Henning Nielsen
Reply to  Jules
February 10, 2019 2:18 pm

AOC is a nice little bird; the perfect canary in the deep mine of climate alarmism. How long before the oxygen runs out?

Louis Hooffstetter
Reply to  Henning Nielsen
February 10, 2019 3:12 pm

Not soon enough…

Bryan A
Reply to  Louis Hooffstetter
February 10, 2019 7:21 pm

Judging by apparent operating brain cells, I would say her O2 supply started thinning about 5 years ago

kenji
Reply to  Jules
February 10, 2019 2:35 pm

I read something today that called into question her entire “Bronx history” … that she actually grew up in the lap of luxury in a toney NYC Suburb. That IF she held a job as a “bartender” it was brief and unsuccessful. That she’s actually never had a REAL job earning enough to actually live on her own. She is a totally FAKE construct of a LEFTIST candidate … ovvvvvvvv cullllller … because … well you know … we haven’t yet had enough “brown” Congresswomen

Louis Hooffstetter
Reply to  kenji
February 10, 2019 3:17 pm

A comment I read on another website (which I can’t recall) said:

“If you asked patients at a mental hospital for suggestions on how to run the government, their ideas would make more sense than hers.”

Dipchip
Reply to  Jules
February 10, 2019 3:19 pm

When I used to take my sons to the zoo they would always enjoy watching the monkeys forever. It was quite attractive to them.

John F. Hultquist
Reply to  Jules
February 10, 2019 4:26 pm

attractive? NO!

Red94ViperRT10
Reply to  Jules
February 10, 2019 4:39 pm

I would be willing to bet money that the “career path” of AOC has at some point intersected a stage with a predominantly male audience and dollar bills. Which I know is off target, play the ball not the (wo)man, but some things are just too obvious!

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Jules
February 10, 2019 5:21 pm

Find a full length picture of her. She really is quite attractive — if that is she doesn’t talk.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Jules
February 10, 2019 5:29 pm

Jules
Attractive? Well, she is relatively young and has a couple of outstanding features, but I would be hesitant to call her attractive.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
February 10, 2019 6:48 pm

Lipstick on a …?

MarkW
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
February 10, 2019 7:35 pm

Just don’t look into her eyes.

Dave Fair
Reply to  MarkW
February 10, 2019 7:36 pm

Those eyes reflect zealotry.

drednicolson
Reply to  Dave Fair
February 12, 2019 2:55 am

The black beads of a gorgon. Don’t look directly in them. She’ll turn you to stone!

Menicholas
Reply to  MarkW
February 11, 2019 9:05 am

She is gonna look pretty silly as soon as Mr. Ed needs his teeth back.

Barbara
Reply to  Menicholas
February 11, 2019 9:26 am

Yee-ouch, Menicholas. 😀

Menicholas
Reply to  Menicholas
February 11, 2019 10:21 pm

Hehe…I just figured I would pile on.
She is not bad looking, but her eyes and teeth do seem unusually prominent.

Troe
February 10, 2019 1:43 pm

May 2 2020

Retun of the Kings

This is going be the Mother if all Battles all over again

Garland Lowe
February 10, 2019 1:50 pm

The first link is to NPR’s website with the GND that AOC website took down.
https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=5729035-Green-New-Deal-FAQ
This link is to the text of HR 109
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-resolution/109/text

Communism at its best.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Garland Lowe
February 10, 2019 3:31 pm

I’m disappointed in HR 109; it doesn’t require everybody to floss after every meal.

MarkW
Reply to  Dave Fair
February 10, 2019 7:36 pm

That would require people to take responsibility for their own health care. Rather I’d expect them to assign a health care worker to go around flossing everybody’s teeth after meals.
Got to create jobs for those who are unwilling to work.

Dave Fair
Reply to  MarkW
February 10, 2019 7:39 pm

Mark, I totally missed that. Personal responsibility is not part of the new agenda.

Gary D.
Reply to  Garland Lowe
February 10, 2019 7:25 pm

And the community organizer parts from the first link

“Ensure justice and equity for frontline communities by prioritizing investment, training, climate and community resiliency, economic and environmental benefits in these communities.”

“. . . and must recognize that existing legislation can incentivize companies to create toxic hotspots in frontline communities, so anything here must ensure that frontline communities are prioritized.”

“Promote justice and equity by stopping current, preventing future, and repairing historic oppression of frontline and vulnerable communities”

“Use democratic and participatory processes led by frontline and vulnerable communities to implement GND projects locally”

Dave Fair
Reply to  Gary D.
February 10, 2019 7:31 pm

“If you are poor, it is someone’s fault, not your own.”

MarkW
Reply to  Gary D.
February 11, 2019 11:02 am

“prioritizing investment”

That’s left wing speak for the government takes your money and uses it to buy votes.

Flight Level
February 10, 2019 1:55 pm

AOC a whistleblower ? Saying loud and clear where other steer the ship with less perceivable outrage ?

A set of postulates of which none should be burned or forgotten. A clear warning message from an insider indeed.

Henning Nielsen
February 10, 2019 2:04 pm

One thought strikes me, when reading these ludicrous policy ambitions, and that is that Orcasio-Cortez and her ilk cannot possibly be the least interested in the climate issue. Name puns notwithstanding, I refuse to accept that these persons are so mentally defect as to really believe such cuts are in any way possible within the given timeframe.

Had they been truly interested, they would have proposed measures that might have been draconic, but at least feasible. But the phrasing, the wild claims, suggests that in their minds, it is just a matter of making the biggest bid, no matter what reality might dictate.

Which again leads to the conclusion: They don’t believe in the climate crises. No, they don’t. And it’s worse than we thought:
THEY ARE NOT SCARED.

Anyone who truly fears AGW and its panoply of disasters, will perhaps call for exaggerated rectifying measures, but measures that still are within the range of rationality. Their fear itself stops them from going overboard in fantasy flights; extreme schemes could jeopardize all mitigation.

But these Democrats have given the game away:
They have neither faith nor fear.

JohnB
Reply to  Henning Nielsen
February 10, 2019 3:03 pm

It’s an old trick. You go for the extreme demands so that they will be rejected. Then your more moderate friends appear sane. The Greens have been using this tactic for decades, setting up extreme groups with extreme demands to make Greenpeace et al look like bastions of reason and modest demands.

Latitude
Reply to  JohnB
February 10, 2019 3:39 pm

…and the whole time…chipping away at our freedom

That’s the way it works….

John Endicott
Reply to  JohnB
February 13, 2019 12:55 pm

So they make the Democrats look extreme so that the more moderate ? what, green party? Communist? Republicans? who exact? look good. Yes its a tactic, but it’s not one that they use to make your own organization look like the extremists. The whole point is to make your organization look good in comparison, not worse by association.

UNGN
February 10, 2019 2:05 pm

Those of us in Aerospace got a good laugh at it when it came out Thursday morning. We were sad to see it go, because I for one am getting more “unwilling to work” with each passing day and making airliners that get double the seat mpg of a Prius takes brain power not required to be a member of congress or a bartender. It would be great for airliners to run on unicorn farts, but they don’t… and neither do the vast majority of trains in the US.

After the GND FAQ’s went down the memory hole, Left wing pundits actually tried to pin the original draft on “right wing trolls”. Mark Dice said “The only thing I added was “Free Massage Chair”‘, and the rest of the document was left untouched. No “Right Wing Trolls” required.

I can think of no better definition of “gaslighting” than the Democrat party response to the GND FAQ’s from AOC.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  UNGN
February 10, 2019 6:57 pm

“It would be great for airliners to run on unicorn farts, but they don’t… and neither do the vast majority of trains in the US.”

So… some of the trains run on unicorn farts?

UNGN
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
February 10, 2019 7:54 pm

In AOC’s world, yes, “High Speed Rail” MUST run on Unicorn Farts.

The Lovers of HSR have obviously never been to Japan for more than a few days. HSR costs at least $.50 per person to go 1 mile. Cars are discouraged by high gas prices and very high tolls (to go the same distance in the same time it would cost slightly more to drive than go by HSR).

Even if US HSR was twice as efficient as Japan, it would still cost $60 USD to go from Dallas to Houston… per person, 1 way.

My 2000 Yukon XL 2500 gets 13 mpg. I can take 7 people and their Luggage From Dallas to Houston for $35 USD/Person all expenses paid, even if gas was $10/gallon (and not the current $1.95) and the door to door time difference vs. HSR would be a wash.

Cynthia
Reply to  UNGN
February 10, 2019 8:24 pm

Wishing there was a LIKE button, that would promote your comment left, like Reddit does.
I do get tired of reading all the comments to find the good ones.

Menicholas
Reply to  UNGN
February 11, 2019 9:16 am

On any given day, in the US there are nearly 100,000 airplane flights.
28-30,000 are commercial airliners, and 45,000 more are general aviation and air taxis.
Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but they are ballpark.
Coast to coast on a plane takes what, 6 hours in the air?
Bullet or maglev trains can go 200 mph and even slightly higher for brief stretches under ideal conditions, but I am pretty sure they spend a lot of time going slower than that.
Now imagine how many tracks it would take to connect every city in the US, and how many trains to carry the same number of places.
There can be 100 planes going to the same city all at once, but I am pretty sure it is one train per track at 200 mph. At what spacing?
Then the rights of way?
To get them fast means making the tracks straight, and that means massive imminent domain confiscation of land, and tracks for those things are ludicrously expensive and time consuming to build.
In short, there is not one part of that whole idea that is possible or even desirable, even if it did not mean trashing our entire existing travel infrastructure to build an less efficient, slower, more expensive, more resource intensive, new one.
And even if trains did not use more energy than planes per passenger mile.

Menicholas
Reply to  Menicholas
February 11, 2019 9:39 am

Should be carry the same number of passengers.

DonM
Reply to  Menicholas
February 11, 2019 2:45 pm

I didn’t realize it was that big of a deal …

We’re gonna need a lot more unicorns.

RetiredEE
Reply to  UNGN
February 11, 2019 11:38 am

Interesting. I just did a quick search and came up with an estimated 85 passenger-miles/gallon for a 767. Plus or minus depending on air conditions, seats filled, and luggage I suppose but that is reasonably efficient. A lower industry average passenger-miles/gallon is was mentioned at 42.6 likely (I assume) due to various models and occupancy. Another reference gives Amtrak 71.6 passenger-miles/gallon. I’m not sure how accurate these are but for a rough order of magnitude it is worth a starting point.

I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the references. These were just the first ones I ran into.
(I suppose they could come up with a computer model for it. /sarc)

https://truecostblog.com/2010/05/27/fuel-efficiency-modes-of-transportation-ranked-by-mpg/

https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-fuel-efficiency-per-passenger-of-a-747-vs-a-767

Krishna Gans
February 10, 2019 2:10 pm

Laughable Green leader:

“We’re trying to do everything so that Thuringia becomes an open, free, liberal, democratic and ecological state,” Habeck says in the video, according to the DPA news agency.

Habeck was quick to reject accusations that his comment implied that Thuringia, a state in the former east Germany, is not democratic already. It was Habeck’s second misstep; in October, after Bavarian elections, he tweeted, “finally, there is democracy again in Bavaria,” Deutsche Welle reports.

Source

randy julander
February 10, 2019 2:11 pm

why not put a new page up at wuwt on the green new deal listing all the things that people will have to forgo and all the things they will be required to do? how about a little fun with this? done away with: atv’s, snowmobiles, private boats, nascar, sporting events, air travel, visiting grandma, houses with over 200 sq ft per person, pets, more than 2 kids, showers over 100 degrees and 5 minutes long, house temp 85 in summer and 60 in winter, lawn mowers, weed wackers, motorcycles, disneyland, ski resorts, golf courses, food that comes from farther than 50 miles of your house, meat, etc…

BobM
Reply to  randy julander
February 10, 2019 7:29 pm

We should get someone to watch every sponsor or co-sponsor and ask every week about their travel home by train (ONLY), as well as the degree to which they make the GND details a part of their daily lives.

Dave Fair
Reply to  BobM
February 10, 2019 7:34 pm

Bob, you assume anyone believes this crap.

John Endicott
Reply to  Dave Fair
February 13, 2019 12:57 pm

Dave, The whole point of Bob’ post is to highlight that even the backers of it don’t believe it.

Martin557
February 10, 2019 2:14 pm

Cattle are not the only animals that fart. Livestock of all sorts, wildlife and people fart also. Which is why I think methane should be considered a renewable fuel source.

UNGN
Reply to  Martin557
February 10, 2019 2:35 pm

I guess the wholesale slaughter of Buffalo 150 years ago was actually a good thing. Who knows how many years that gained us. /s

Louis Hooffstetter
Reply to  UNGN
February 10, 2019 3:59 pm

Why I’m not worried about cow farts:

In 1871, while traveling along the Arkansas River, Colonel R.I. Dodge passed through an immense herd of bison. Dodge estimated that the herd was at least 25 miles across, and after consulting with local hunters and travelers, he concluded that it must have been at least 50 miles long. This suggests that this single herd covered at least 1,250 square miles. Dodge also noted that the density of the herd averaged 15 to 20 bison/acre. Based on Colonel Dodge’s observations, the herd he observed contained between 12 to 16 million bison.

A few years earlier, in 1839, while traveling along the Santa Fe Trail, Thomas Farnham traveled for 3 days (and over the course of about 45 miles) through a large herd of bison. Farnham estimated that he could see for ~15 miles in both directions, which suggested that this herd covered ~1,350 square miles. At 15 to 20 bison/acre, it likely contained 13 to 17.25 million bison.

The most widely-cited estimate for the bison population (west of the Mississippi) when Columbus discovered America is 60 million animals. This number comes from a paper written in 1929 by a researcher named Seton, who relied on an earlier estimate made by another researcher named Hornaday. In an 1889 paper, Hornaday estimated that the herd Colonel Dodge observed numbered only 4 million animals (not 12 to 16 million). Being a conservative scientist, (and wanting to err on the side of caution), Hornaday arbitrarily downgraded Colonel Dodge’s estimate because he was ‘almost certain’ (for no apparent reason) that the herd Colonel Dodge observed must have been wedge-shaped rather than rectangular. So he reduced Colonel Dodge’s low end estimate of 12 million animals (15 bison/acre) by two-thirds. When Seton later wrote his paper, he used Hornaday’s uber conservative estimate and also arbitrarily assumed that a herd like the one Colonel Dodge observed would likely range over an area of ~200,000 square miles. Then, using the total geographic area occupied by the plains and prairies of North America, he guesstimated that expanse of land could reasonably support 15 such herds. By multiplying 15 herds x 4 million animals per herd he came up with a population of ~60 million bison (Ta Da!).

But because Hornaday essentially pulled the number of 4 million animals for Colonel Dodge’s herd out of his rear end, Seton’s estimate is likely very low. If we use Colonel Dodge’s more scientific estimates instead, we can guesstimate that the actual number of bison west of the Mississippi when Columbus discovered America was more likely to have been between 180 to 240 million animals (3 to 4x Seton’s estimate).

By 1884, there were only ~325 bison left in the United States (no joke).

In 1910, the American Bison Society Census estimated there were 2,108 bison in all of North America (1,076 in Canada and 1,032 in the U.S.).

Today (2018) there are ~30,000 wild bison in conservation herds and of these, fewer than 5,000 are unfenced and disease-free.

In 2017, the population of beef cattle & dairy cows in North America was ~106 million (~94 million in the US and ~12 million in Canada).

I’m not worried about cow farts.

Javier
Reply to  Martin557
February 10, 2019 2:55 pm

Ruminants fart a lot more methane. It’s in how their diet is pre-digested by bacteria.

fred250
Reply to  Javier
February 10, 2019 5:03 pm

A cow cannot belch or fart out any more “carbon” than they take in by eating.

Far less actually, because it is converted to cow growth, which is eventually eaten.

A cow is CARBON NEUTRAL

ShanghaiDan
Reply to  fred250
February 10, 2019 8:07 pm

Not after I cook them on my charcoal grille…

fred250
Reply to  ShanghaiDan
February 11, 2019 11:33 am

Unless you use coal dug from the ground, you are just part of the carbon cycle.

Still CARBON NEUTRAL

Glenn
Reply to  Martin557
February 10, 2019 4:28 pm

You first.

February 10, 2019 2:15 pm

A pretty face and a nice figure certainly helps in Politics, or to that matter in any line of work for a woman. Its sometimes not realised that the very word “Woman ” comes from Old ” English”, “To woo a man”

I am surprised that the Females have not banned its use, but wait , the word Female is almost as bad. Fe Male”

MJE

Henning Nielsen
Reply to  Michael
February 10, 2019 2:22 pm

It helps for male politicians as well. Women are allowed to vote these days.

Crispin in Waterloo
Reply to  Michael
February 10, 2019 3:38 pm

Michael

I found a different etymology. Woman means a female person (man being a generic term for person). Weaman means a male person.

Two men means two people, not two males. Man is derived from manus, hand in Latin, as in a farmhand or a deckhand. Farmhand is not a gendered word. Could be any of 25 gender identities. Same with deckhands.

In one Hollywood B movie, a Western, one male says to another, “Take a couple of hands and go …” referring to gaining the assistance of two weamen or women or one of each.

The fact is “men” is taken these days to mean both males and generic individuals. The “wea” only survives in “weapon” (lit: Male tool).

Another example: chess men are not males. At least one is female.

Richard Patton
Reply to  Crispin in Waterloo
February 10, 2019 4:35 pm

What words actually mean to SJWs doesn’t matter it is what they say the words mean so they can beat you over the head with them.

“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’”
― Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass

2hotel9
Reply to  Richard Patton
February 10, 2019 4:48 pm

Control the language, that is why so many leftists love to change what words mean.

leowaj
Reply to  Crispin in Waterloo
February 10, 2019 5:28 pm

Crispin, thank you for this summary. At my place of employment, a group of overzealous feminized . men and women were fighting hard to push social justice memes deeper into the company’s culture. They leapt right through the meaning of “man” by picking and choosing whatever historical narrative led to the white male guilt meme. I decided to stay clear of the fight– eventually the group had their reigns yanked a bit– but through it all, I kept thinking, as regards the etymology of the word “man”, I never learned as a child or in literary coursework in college that “man” specifically referred to males only. It has always referred to a person (man, singular) or people (men, plural).

Of course, when SJW’s are at work, there is no room for reason or debate. Only aspersions, hyperbole, and threatening lawsuits unless something changes.

Menicholas
Reply to  Crispin in Waterloo
February 11, 2019 9:28 am

Well, look…they declared that gender is a social construct and has no real validity beyond how someone chooses to identify.
We just need to hold their feet to the fire on this sort of thing.
They want to use one argument one day, and the next forget all about it and adopt a completely incompatible worldview to foist a different load of crap on us all.
We just need to make and keep a running list of the BS, so we can toss it back at them as needed.
They really believe nothing.
Words are just bludgeons, and rules are things to be used against those who made them and live by them, and ignored when unhelpful.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Michael
February 10, 2019 5:24 pm

I think it was Woe for Men.

Samuel C Cogar
February 10, 2019 2:16 pm

Don’t forget about all the “big name” Democrats that jumped on her greeny “socialist bandwagon” just to get some “free” publicity.

Walter Sobchak
February 10, 2019 2:17 pm
Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
February 10, 2019 5:27 pm

Anthony: I think you should put this document up on WWUT permanently. At some point NPR is going to disappear it when it receives orders from the Central Committee.

DocSiders
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
February 11, 2019 5:19 pm

WOW!! Utopia is Soooo easy. Let’s do it !!

What could go wrong?

Quilter52
February 10, 2019 2:17 pm

Never underestimate the ability to buy votes. Here in Oz we have compulsory voting and more than half of our population now get some or all of their income from the government. A recipe for disaster. AOC and her ilk cant rely on forcing people to the polls but she may be able to persuade them through the free money offer to people unable or unwilling to work.

Robertvd
Reply to  Quilter52
February 10, 2019 5:31 pm

That’s why BIG government always runs out of real money and has to replace it with a fiat currency. That’s why BIG government is like a cancer. There are no good cancers.

Dave O.
February 10, 2019 2:21 pm

NPR thinks that AOC is the second coming. I’m sure they’ll back her all the way.

kenji
Reply to  Dave O.
February 10, 2019 2:26 pm

Huh? Are you saying that NPR isn’t … fair? and balanced? and objective? as they claim? We wouldn’t be spending PUBLIC taxpayer $$$$$ for a media propaganda outlet would we? Shocked I tell you … shocked!

February 10, 2019 2:21 pm

It’s disturbing that so many of those running for the Democratic nomination in 2020 are buying in to the green nonsense driven by the fear of CO2 emissions. If what passes for climate science isn’t corrected before a Democrat eventually returns to the Whitehouse, the economy is doomed, especially if they were to gain full control Congress.

kenji
February 10, 2019 2:22 pm

David Hockett, Cornell Professor and advisor to AOC, She Guevara, made the following statement on Tucker Carlson’s Friday program;

In a head-turning moment heard around the Internet, Hockett replied flatly, “Uh, we never would, right? And AOC has never said anything like that, right? I think you’re referring to some sort of document — I think some doctored document that somebody other than us has been circulating. … She’s actually tweeted it out to laugh at it, if you look at her latest tweets. It seems apparently, some Republicans have put it out there. I don’t know the details.”

So nowwwwww … that She Guevara has been thoroughly mocked and ridiculed for her CIVILIZATION-ENDING idiotic “Green New Deal” … her spokespeople are saying that her entire speech and “New Deal” were “hacked” … by some Republicans … to make her look … STUPID. OMG! The eco-LEFT are quite literally INSANE! They’ve NO grip on reality, or how our world ACTUALLY works. smh

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ocasio-cortez-adviser-admits-he-falsely-claimed-green-new-deal-didnt-promise-security-for-those-unwilling-to-work

Bad News Quillan
Reply to  kenji
February 10, 2019 2:36 pm

The Green New Deal FAQ has been declared FAQ news.

–Bad News

Gary from Chicagoland
February 10, 2019 2:22 pm

Exactly how does the Green New Deal plan on stopping the production of cow farts?

comment image?w=648

Menicholas
Reply to  Gary from Chicagoland
February 11, 2019 9:36 am

No more cows.
Which will take a little longer than replacing every vehicle, and every building, and building a new grid, and making half a million wind turbines, and a few hundred thousand utility scale solar installations, and connecting every city by HSR.
Hell, the no more cheese and hence no more pizza aspect would cause nationwide riots all by itself, let alone no more burgers or steak.
Last week a woman froze to death in her own home, a young woman, after her thermostat malfunctioned…and they want to get rid of all the fuel we use for heating and farming and transportation?
She will be lynched the day everyone finds out that cell phone parts need petroleum.

R Shearer
February 10, 2019 2:24 pm

If only all the pictures of Naomi Oreskes were disappeared. The world would be a better place without a doubt, even with all the merchants of cow farts.

Michael Jankowski
Reply to  R Shearer
February 10, 2019 3:11 pm

Amazingly, she is far uglier on the inside than on the outside.

R Shearer
Reply to  Michael Jankowski
February 10, 2019 3:33 pm

And a very difficult task to achieve that indeed.

Bad News Quillan
February 10, 2019 2:33 pm

The Green New Deal FAQ has been declared FAQ news.

–Bad News

Robert
February 10, 2019 2:40 pm

This is like the push to use palm oil for bio fuel. The consequences of mining all of the metals required and the issue of what to do with the hundreds of thousands of tons of waste will be left for some later generations to deal with.

Pft
February 10, 2019 2:41 pm

“single-payer health care, a national tuition-free college program, a promise to provide every American with ‘healthy food,’ a national basic income program, a universal promise for housing and ‘economic security,’ and a plan to ‘upgrade’ every single building in the country, including every American’s home.“

I love all of that. It neednt drive up the national debt though. Simply create the money without taxes or borrowing, taxing only as needed to control inflation, using the countries vast natural assets as reserves to back the country (land, energy, water, food, minerals, forests)

Go back and formalize a new Bretton Woods to fix currencies exchange rates based on agreement for currency creation as a percentage of each nations proven resources

As for elimination of carbon based energy. Pure hogwash. Focus on infrastructure development and manufacturing the things we use to avoid too many imports. That goal is thrown in there to enforce more austerity measures and controls. Its a trap and the rest is bait. Keep the bait and avoid the trap.

Curious George
Reply to  Pft
February 10, 2019 3:05 pm

Been there. Survived. Not eager to repeat the experience.

MarkW
Reply to  Pft
February 10, 2019 7:42 pm

Every good socialist knows that the rich have 100s of trillions of dollars just sitting around, unused.

Menicholas
Reply to  Pft
February 11, 2019 9:47 am

We know what happened the last time someone in government decided to choose a healthy menu for everyone: Michelle Obama somehow took control of the food every school kid in the country got fed, and from what I heard, the vast majority of it went straight into the garbage can.
Right now the only people who cannot walk to a store and get any food in the world on every day of the year for an amount affordable on the minimum wage, are those who choose to live in the middle of nowhere.
The only food crisis is that people eat what they like, not what may be best for them.
And then they eat too much of it.
Try talking that away Alexandria…I double dog dare you.

MarkW
Reply to  Menicholas
February 11, 2019 4:54 pm

If they try to force the same nonsense on adults, levels of civil disobedience will reach record proportions.

Menicholas
Reply to  MarkW
February 11, 2019 10:27 pm

Yup.
Before the ink was dry.

M__ S__
February 10, 2019 2:49 pm

If only all socialists would go AWOL

kim
February 10, 2019 2:52 pm

Whoa, sturdy beggars are great again.
==============================

February 10, 2019 2:55 pm

Yes, the “Green New Deal” is laughable, but I’ve nevertheless been bothered that its underlying premise — that if we could go to 100% renewables, it would “save” the climate — seems not to be questioned much (even on Fox News!).
So, in frustration, I made my own video titled “DRC discusses problems with the “Green New Deal” and posted it yesterday: https://youtu.be/B0n_53P81Mk
If any of you care to watch my rambling screed, I would appreciate your comments — thanks!

Latitude
Reply to  Deborah R. Castleman
February 10, 2019 3:54 pm

Thanks Deborah…that was really good and spot on….I think we’ve all on the same page with this
….funny about your fusion joke….it won’t work until it’s economically feasible…..unlike all this other mess

R Shearer
Reply to  Deborah R. Castleman
February 10, 2019 7:58 pm

Good questions and commentary. Cheers

Menicholas
Reply to  Deborah R. Castleman
February 11, 2019 10:30 am

Everyone here except Ivan and Griff know it would make no difference, it purports to solve a problem that does not exist, and renewables are not just expensive but an almost purely useless waste of money.
In the shock of hearing about this ridiculous nonsense, people reacted to the details of the plan, rather than why we do not need any such plan.
I talk about this sort of thing all the time, because even a few years ago it was not brought up: Even if the globe is warming and will keep doing so, it is not a problem, it is a blessing.
So is more CO2…it is all good.
I used to talk about this 10 and 15 and 20 years ago, but in the forums I was discussing stuff on back in those days, such details got almost zero traction.
No one responded.
So, we tend to take up arguments where they are, rather than where we think they should be.
Tony Heller put out a new video last night.
At the end he urges everyone to write letters and call our elected representatives and tell them we want the entire climate scam defunded.
We do not want to even talk about it any more…it is made-up bunkum, top to bottom, left to right, front to back.
Ten years ago, I think we got close to that, but then Obama was elected, and he directed that every federal budget dollar spent have apportioning in it to address climate change at every level and every agency.
And here we are.
The warmistas should be out of business and looking over their shoulders for malfeasance prosecutions, but instead they still seem to own the direction of the conversation, and have responded to every falsification and failed prediction by doubling down on the urgency and cries of doom.
Nothing unusual is occurring with weather, fires, floods, droughts, heat waves, sea level…none of it.
The sky is blue, grass is green, plants and trees are growing, birds and bees are atwitter and abuzz…but millions and millions of people talk about the ongoing disasters right before our eyes!
The climate crisis that is even now consuming the globe in ruin.
No one can point to it, but they know it is there.
They cannot quote evidence, but know that only deniers doubt “the science”, that every actual scientist in the world knows full well has been proven.
They are brainwashed, and unreachable.
When anyone figures out how to deprogram these deluded nitwits, let me know.

Jim Olivi
February 10, 2019 2:57 pm

So, with the Green New Deal, there will be government money given to all of those who are put out of work by the elimination of airlines, rail (yeah rail), auto and trucking, heavy manufacturing, etc. If everybody is given money for not working, who will make stuff for us to buy?

Ian
February 10, 2019 2:59 pm

She is emblematic of a mindless movement that, regrettably, has proliferated western civilization – in major part because the movement has been allowed to proliferate academia, which is paving its future.

A cutting analysis of the ignorance and hypocrisy – BRILLIANT:

https://youtu.be/s85fHq1bCnc

February 10, 2019 2:59 pm

I think a Democrat Good Cop/Bad Cop strategy is starting to emerge. You have two wings of the party. One is the bat-crap off-the-edge-the-earth crazy ultimate left. These are the committed socialists and communists, the foot soldiers, the sign wavers, the true believers, and the merely insane. For them, facts and common sense are merely words to be ignored or twisted.. Their ideal is the ultimate socialist paradise, where everyone is equally upper-middle class, nobody has to work too hard (or at all), the world is optimally powered by cheap and abundant energy that comes from somewhere not dirty (and not yet invented) and is natural, etc. etc., and everybody everywhere grasps the ultimate truth of any political positions the anointed put forward. They are totally out of control, even from their own party. Lets call them the Bad Cops.

Then we have the other wing (for the purposes of this illustration only, we’ll call them the Good Cops), the traditional bare-knuckles we-must-rule democrats, who will (as always) lie, cheat and steal, and project all their hatred, their racism, and their eugenics policies onto their hated Republican opponents. Their weapons are such as voter fraud, bribery, and corruption of federal agencies (IRS, Justice, FBI, etc.) Until the rise of the Bad Cops, they were considered extremists—as they were and still are.

How then to made themselves look Good? How to appear middle-of-the-road and reasonable and thus con independents into voting for their left-wing policies? By inventing something even further to their left that is at once both terrifying and laughable, so obviously Bad that only insane people support it. Presto! Arise Bad Cops!

It’s brilliant! How do you convince people to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to fight the long-term effects of man-made climate change, a classic Good Cop position that is running out of steam? You have your Bad Cop others DEMAND that we spend multiple TRILLIONS of dollars RIGHT NOW else we all die in 10 (or 12, or whatever) years.

How do you, as a Good Cop, convince people to allow the imposition of a carbon tax that will severely cripple the US economy for no real benefit, while generating political good will by rebating a chunk of those tax proceeds to potential voters? Simple. Have your Bad Cop wing outlaw cars, airplanes, and all internal combustion engines. Totally unworkable, right? Something there for everybody to hate. Now the Good Cops’ crazy tax sounds better, moderate even. And we can still fly our private jets to Davos.

The Republicans will wear themselves out rope-a-doping the Bad Cops, whom everybody knows are crazy anyway. The Good Cops will do some of that too, just to put some space between the Democrat Party wings and sound more reasonable.

How do you make a poop sandwich sound palatable? Offer poop without the bread as the only alternative.

mike the morlock
Reply to  secryn
February 10, 2019 3:14 pm

secryn February 10, 2019 at 2:59 pm

Sorry no. This is a nightmare for the Dems. They have to distance themselves from the nut jobs without refuting their dogma. The Rnc will be zeroing on AOC and Bernie. Toss in Warren for laughs and giggles, thus the so called reasonable candidates will never be heard. The media is entertainment, and we are in for a three way food fight.

michael

Dermot carroll
February 10, 2019 3:05 pm

We may laugh at her, but she has an angle and she knows how to use it!!

Louis Hooffstetter
Reply to  Dermot carroll
February 10, 2019 4:25 pm

I can’t say I’m not impressed by this, but I can say I’m not impressed by her Green New Deal.
She’s obviously smart about how politicians enrich themselves, but she’s scientifically illiterate.

Menicholas
Reply to  Louis Hooffstetter
February 11, 2019 10:11 am

She is a sock puppet. She has never written a word of this stuff.
We have seen her on TV, and what she thinks she knows and how she sounds when asked real question in a live format.
“I am not the big expert on this stuff!”

comment image?itemid=12178819

Robertvd
Reply to  Dermot carroll
February 10, 2019 5:49 pm

So she just described BIG government and she wants to make it even BIGGER. What could go wrong.

Robertvd
Reply to  Dermot carroll
February 10, 2019 5:58 pm

That’s why all high ranking politicians from whatever color belong to the hated 1%. The only difference is they became rich because of being corrupt and not hard work.

DMacKenzie
Reply to  Dermot carroll
February 10, 2019 9:46 pm

But she’s asking reps from Common Cause, Institute for Free Speech, Brennan Center for Justice about the penalties for her being a “bad guy”. All of whom are always saying politicians can get away with anything they want to because it is a good meme for fundraising. I’m pretty sure if she asks the same questions to the FBI, they know how to put her in jail for those same activities.

Michael Spurrier
February 10, 2019 3:10 pm

Here’s my concern Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has been put up as a stalking horse……maybe in two ways.

1.When such extremes are put forward other policies which might have been seen as ridiculous seem more reasonable and thus get through.
2.While she is getting all the attention other bits of legislation are allowed to slip through unnoticed.

Dave walker
February 10, 2019 3:19 pm

Hyphen has published a list of goals free of methods and details. Any who object will be labelled anti- environment polluters. It’s a no-lose proposition. And we’re talking about her, so she wins. She may be as dumb as POTUS.

Cube
February 10, 2019 3:20 pm

The Green Deal is terrific! All liberals, greens, Democrats, socialists and Griff should immediately reduce their carbon footprint to zero. Immediately. This means no more exhaling any CO2. Any. At all. Lead by example and all that, wot?

Richard of NZ
Reply to  Cube
February 10, 2019 9:06 pm

A pilot scheme that uses the people who thought it was a good idea is the way to go. Nothing that utilises carbon in its manufacture or transport could be used by these twits (someone who uses twitter) for the say, 6 month long, pilot. They can report on how they managed at the end of that time.

Pamela Gray
February 10, 2019 3:42 pm

Her view of how to bring about economic stability to the masses is as close as you can get to slavery without actually carrying around your hanging noose for those that won’t play along. Socialism results in a codified class system designed to put people in their assigned places and keep them there. In another time and place, it is exactly the same system Democrats tried to impose on the rest of what would become the 50 states, District of Columbia, and territories. The Civil War erupted in full flames, led by a Republican convinced that such an imposed class system was antithema to the spirit of our original Declaration of Independence and our constitution: That all (hu)men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit [but not guarantee] of happiness.

That so many people who identify as “black” support this idiotic woman’s notions is mind boggling. Are they so far removed from the long and very real struggle for freedom that they no longer recognize what class slavery looks like? God forbid that these people actually want to be fed, diapered, and shacked in exchange for an imposed class system and assigned duties.

Zeke
Reply to  Pamela Gray
February 10, 2019 7:33 pm

Pamela Grey says, “In another time and place, it is exactly the same system Democrats tried to impose on the rest of what would become the 50 states, District of Columbia, and territories. The Civil War erupted in full flames, led by a Republican convinced that such an imposed class system was antithema to the spirit of our original Declaration of Independence and our constitution: That all (hu)men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit [but not guarantee] of happiness.”

And what a coincidence that Democrats are very busy in city halls, banning the Pledge of Allegiance to the Union Flag. According to their true colors and origins.

Pamela Gray
February 10, 2019 3:44 pm

Just a heads up. My just-sent comment had more than a few flag words in it.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Pamela Gray
February 10, 2019 5:45 pm

Pamela
It only took two minutes for your comment to show up. You must have special privileges! 🙂

Bear
February 10, 2019 3:45 pm

IIRC AOC is connected with the Jacobin Magazine a far left socialist group. Guess who brought the Terror to the French revolution? They aren’t even trying to hide what they really intend, just obscure it with smoke and mirrors before the real terror begins once they have power. Worked in Cuba, Russia, Venezuela, etc.

Bear
Reply to  Bear
February 10, 2019 3:51 pm

And if you think that’s hyperbole, read this:

It’s Time to Try Fossil-Fuel Executives for Crimes Against Humanity

ResourceGuy
February 10, 2019 3:47 pm

I’m not sure which is scarier, the Plan or the back step to run silent, run deep with it till the reins of power are in reckless hands.

meiggs
February 10, 2019 3:50 pm

Economic security for all who are unable or unwilling to work…

TRUTH AT LAST! Some of us have to work up to 7 days a week just to keep a job and have never had economic security…the new deal is the old deal………….

February 10, 2019 3:50 pm

Perhaps its a ” Sack clouth and ashes”” thing. What is wrong with these people that they seem to want us to go back to about the 17th century, although I suspect they think that they y will somehow be in the top positions.

But back then the Pyramid shape was very different, not much room at the top, lots of room at the bottom for the phesants

Look again at history, at every step of the way its all about energy. Slaves were the main factor, but even the Romans when they ran out of of lots of them, used their brains. They had their equivalent of hydro, the line of water wheels on a hill in France.

But it was not until the fact that coal, the new fuel when the trees were getting a bit short, had a problem with the water level, that a very crude form of steam engine, the atmospheric engine, to raise water from the mine to a high point, then use its ” Fall “to perform work, that it was realised that this was far better than using cows, horses and humans to do the very hard work.

True we did have windmills, but they were not very efficient and stem soon finished them off.

At each step along the way first the top got rich, dare I say it, “Trickle down” economics finally resulted in it reaching the bottom.

Today’s fear of automation goes s back a long way. Look at Constables paintings, about 1820 and the UK had a crude form of combined harvester, true it was pulled by horses, and again just like today, the workers did not like it, it meant that less and less were required on the land. This was the beginning of a move to the towns and cities as windmills and water wheels were gradually replaced by steam. The burning of Fossall fuel actually improved the peoples standard of living.

But it was the discoveries by first by Galvani, Volts and finally Michael Faraday, , a self taught former bookbinder apprentice which launched todays world onto the high standard of living which we enjoy today, and its still fossall fuel turning energy from the coal or gas into electricity, which even the Green inclined need for their far better way of life from the 17th century.

MJE

February 10, 2019 4:16 pm

It went to the same place as Mark Jacobson’s extra 1400% of needed hydro capacity or his 387 concentrated solar plants for his first 100% WWS (Wind Water Solar) plan for the sunny state of New York.

DMA
February 10, 2019 4:26 pm

I couldn’t shake the vision of a 500 ft. electric crane plugged into an existing wind wind charger and waiting for a breeze to set the next turbine.

2hotel9
February 10, 2019 4:30 pm

The intrawebsthingy never forgets, plenty of places to get this document. Problem is no media is going to be flashing it on screens at people, they are working to bury it.

DMA
February 10, 2019 4:31 pm

In that whole silly document there is no mention of what about climate change we will be fighting nor any statement of how we will know when we have won the fight.

Bear
Reply to  DMA
February 10, 2019 4:45 pm

“how we will know when we have won the fight?”

When they have total control. In the name of the “People” of course, just like the other “Peoples Republics”.

DonM
Reply to  DMA
February 11, 2019 10:37 am

Emotional and personality disorders do not allow some people to “win”.

They cannot truly win.

You will know they have “won” when you have lost (and, like Venezuela, you have no access to toilet paper).

Stevek
February 10, 2019 4:53 pm

It is named The New Green Deal because off all the Green that will flow to investments owned by Al Gore and others. They know it is much easier to make money off government spending then to earn it in the free market.

u.k.(us)
February 10, 2019 4:54 pm

I’ve heard at least one person say, she might be smarter than your average bear (at least politically) ??
Why not ask for the sky, then settle for less.

Robertvd
February 10, 2019 5:40 pm

The next Green Deal/Bill will have to pass first to find out what’s in it .

https://youtu.be/QV7dDSgbaQ0

R Shearer
Reply to  Robertvd
February 10, 2019 8:01 pm

That worked out well. Not.

Bear
February 10, 2019 7:12 pm

Remember Left-Right is not a well defined scale. AOC and her ilk have declared Pelosi and Schumer to be right of center, so “true compromise” would mean something that is left of where they stand. If they can get people to believe that claptrap, then the insiders on the right will claim that giving the Democrats everything is a compromise.

MarkW
Reply to  Bear
February 11, 2019 11:11 am

When you are so far out into left field that you have to dodge cars, everything else looks right wing.

Menicholas
Reply to  Bear
February 11, 2019 10:34 pm

Everyone on the left I have ever known, all the way over to raving progressives, considers themselves to be squarely in the middle.
I can barely believe they can say it with a straight face, but they see it that way.
It is that bad…they are honestly deluded people.
Worse now than ever it seems.

Paulina
February 10, 2019 7:47 pm

IPCC Report said global emissions must be cut by by 40-60% by 2030. US is 20% of total emissions. We must get to 0 by 2030 and lead the world in a global Green New Deal.

“This is a massive transformation of our society with clear goals and a timeline” at a “scale not seen since World War 2.”

Let. that. sink. in.

These people are under personal obligation to go live in countries that do not use coal or oil, for anything — including nylon etc. fibers, paints, wood preservatives, crop protection, rubber, plastic, and steel and concrete. There are plenty of underdeveloped countries to choose from.

Paulina
February 10, 2019 7:49 pm

Moderators, may I just come back to WUWT as Paulina? Or is that too much of a headache.

Paulina
February 10, 2019 7:50 pm

Thanks mods, you are so amazing.

Cynthia
February 10, 2019 8:46 pm

The best comments I’ve found on this topic.

1) Trump’s tweet
“I think it is very important for the Democrats to press forward with their Green New Deal. It would be great for the so-called “Carbon Footprint” to permanently eliminate all Planes, Cars, Cows, Oil, Gas & the Military – even if no other country would do the same. Brilliant!“

2) Pelosi’s statement
“The green dream, or whatever they call it, nobody knows what it is, but they’re for it, right?”

AOC is very charismatic, and will eventually have considerable power, unless the DNC takes her down in the next election. (It might have been a mistake to alienate Pelosi by staging a sit-in outside her office.)
She is getting lots of free press, like Trump did. Scott Adams has called her “Blue Trump”.
With her charisma, and smarts, and followers on social media, if DNC does decide to take her down, she’ll become a talk-show host or political commentator and make big bucks.

Sara Hall
Reply to  Cynthia
February 11, 2019 1:48 am

Was AOC maybe a stand-in for this female character in the film ‘Idiocracy’? She appears to be acting out the part now anyway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3boy_tLWeqA

Ivan Kinsman
Reply to  Sara Hall
February 11, 2019 2:09 am

If we’re putting it in the film context – Dumb (AOC) and Dumber (Trump).

Patrick MJD
February 10, 2019 10:07 pm

Congresswoman? How sexist!

Hugs
Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 11, 2019 12:24 am

Yes. The ze-assumed Ocasio-Cortez is not stupid because of zer gender, but just because ze is not properly educated.

For that reason, I fully support zer as the candidate of the Democratic party in 2024 (will ze be eligible?)

Warren
February 10, 2019 10:09 pm

She’s definitely Blue Trump (she’s the person for the times for the left).
GND will be back with a cut-n-polish.
I like her because she’s exposing dysfunctional and corrupt USA political system which will bring the USA to its knees without reform.
The balance is bullshit.