Climate Fish Tales

What’s Natural? Guest essay by Jim Steele



American folk lore is filled with stories of how Native Americans observed changes in wildlife and foretold future weather changes. I was fascinated by an 1800s story of Native Americans inhabiting regions around Marysville, California who had moved down into the river valleys during drought years. They then moved to higher ground before devastating floods occurred. Did they understand California’s natural climate cycles? Could changes in salmon migrations alert them?

Observing salmon has certainly improved modern climate science. In the 1990s climate scientists struggled to understand why surface temperatures in the northwest sector of the Pacific Ocean had suddenly become cooler while temperatures in the eastern tropical Pacific suddenly warmed. Climate models predicted no such thing. However, fishery biologists noted salmon abundance in Alaska underwent boom and bust cycles lasting 20 to 40 years. When Alaskan salmon populations boomed, their populations from California to Washington busted. Conversely, decades later when Alaskan populations busted, those more southerly populations boomed.

Scientists soon realized the observed alternating patterns in fish abundance not only coincided with those puzzling changes in ocean surface temperatures, but also with regional drought-flood cycles, glacier growth and retreat, and tree-line advances and retreats. Tree rings and lake sediments also recorded cycles of 5 major Sierra Nevada droughts alternating with wetter decades during the past 300 years. This all convinced scientists of the existence of a natural “ocean oscillation” driving climate change. This climate see-saw was finally named the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) in 1997. (Science uses the term “oscillation” to describe repeating cycles with general, but imprecise time periods.)

The newly characterized PDO had yet to be included in climate models. But progress in climate research recently argues the PDO largely explains western North America’s last 100 years of climate change. So how do we separate naturally caused weather extremes from human contributions? Unfortunately, few Americans are aware of these “cycles”. But if we don’t educate our children about natural climate change, the next generation will surely fall victim to every Chicken Little climate story told by scientifically illiterate politicians or by journalists who profit from sensationalism; if it bleeds, it leads!

Similar fish tales have been reported globally. In the Atlantic, a similar oscillation was officially recognized in 2000. But according to fishery records, that oscillation has been noted since the 15th century. Norwegian fisheries documented 30 to 60-year boom and bust cycles for herring, sardines and anchovies. In the 1930s Greenland experienced a warming rivaling today’s temperatures. Simultaneously Danish Arctic ice records showed extensive sea ice melt. This all coincided with intrusions of warm Atlantic waters that brought Atlantic cod and herring northwards. Fish retreated decades later coinciding with cooling temperatures and recovering sea ice. Today’s Arctic warming and reduced sea ice has likewise coincided with greater intrusions of warm Atlantic water. Will there be a return cycle of retreating Atlantic waters that causes sea ice to rebound again?

Finally, contrary to recent claims of “unprecedented” rapid warming, Greenland’s air temperatures warmed more rapidly during the 1920s to 30s causing melting around Greenland’s ice cap. After warm waters retreated, Greenland gained ice from the 1960s to the 90s. A new period of rapid melting began in the 90s but peaked in 2012. Since then, Greenland’s melting gradually subsided and Greenland gained ice in 2017 and 2018, perhaps signaling a new cooling phase.

And there is a truly optimistic fish tale. Monterrey Bay Aquarium Research Institute’s senior scientist Dr. Francisco Chavez is a Peruvian oceanographer who studies the PDO and upwelling effects on marine life. The upwelling region off the coast of Peru is known as the most productive fishery in the world because robust upwelling brings nutrients from dark ocean depths up to the sunlit layers increasing photosynthesis. During the cold Little Ice Age – 1300 to 1850 AD – marine life off Peru’s coast was at a low point. Starting in the late 1800s as temperatures warmed, plankton rapidly increased, which promoted rapid increases in fish abundance. This dramatic improvement in marine life is well documented in preserved sediments.

To promote plant growth, commercial greenhouses add an additional 1000 ppm to the current 400 ppm of atmospheric CO2 concentrations. So, did marine life also increase due to rising levels of CO2? Or perhaps, because land temperatures warm faster than ocean temperatures, did stronger winds increase ocean upwelling? Whatever the drivers of the observed increases in ocean life, it appears likely that rising CO2 contributed definitive benefits.

If we are to truly understand climate change and discern human contributions, these fish tales all suggest we must first account for natural oscillations that have surely been operating for millennia. So, to rephrase Mark Twain, ‘reports of the earth’s imminent death within 18 years, via rising CO2, are likely greatly exaggerated’.

Jim Steele authored Landscapes and Cycles: An Environmentalist’s Journey to Climate Skepticism


Published in the Pacifica Tribune January, 29, 2019 (republished here at the request of the author).

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Tom Halla
January 30, 2019 2:07 pm

Good post.

R Shearer
Reply to  Tom Halla
January 30, 2019 2:24 pm


Reply to  Tom Halla
January 30, 2019 2:38 pm

Does anyone know if there are any fish/wives tales about oak acorns? Central fl oaks have dropped more acorns this year than I ever remember seeing. I’ve got places in the yard practically paved with acorns.

There was also the one about turtle nesting avoiding particular coastal areas prone to hurricanes in a particular year. I would have loved to believe that one but so far I haven’t seen any collaborating reports.

Reply to  taz1999
January 30, 2019 2:49 pm

There are. But the reality is there is no link between number of acorns and a cold winter. One year a few years ago our oak tree had a bumper crop of acorns, but it was a very warm winter. I believe this was the 2012/2013 winter.

Reply to  taz1999
January 30, 2019 2:52 pm

I was under the idea that sea turtles return to the beach of their birth, and that nesting season does not concur with hurricane season. I suspect that nesting season begins just as hurricane season ends because the turtles whose biological clocks told them to arrive early didn’t fare so well as those who arrived after the hurricanes had ceased. Nature has its negative feedback systems for self correction.

Reply to  Rocketscientist
January 30, 2019 3:03 pm

Ok, you made me look it up. Central FL turtle nesting season runs from beginning of March through Sept. I do know mid Sept. is the peak of the tropical season so idk about turtle nesting. I’d be guessing the incubation period wants to be in warm weather and predators are probably more lethal than hurricanes. Like I said, I wanted to believe but it doesn’t appear to pan out.

Johann Wundersamer
Reply to  taz1999
January 30, 2019 11:02 pm

Dann MACH was draus.

Reply to  taz1999
January 31, 2019 8:41 am

Any one point on the coast is only hit by a major hurricane about once a century. That loss is insignificant. It is much more important that the temperature is right for incubation the other 99 years.

Reply to  taz1999
January 30, 2019 4:18 pm

Taz – read about masting. A lot of different trees seem to try to get ahead of their seed predators by flooding the market. Here’s the wiki:

John F. Hultquist
Reply to  DaveW
January 30, 2019 10:05 pm

Masting is the answer.
Hope others come back to find this.
I’ve seen it many times.

Reply to  taz1999
January 30, 2019 7:36 pm

All I know is that a good year for acorns is followed by a year of heavy squirrels.

Reply to  taz1999
January 30, 2019 7:57 pm

If anything, the number of acorns probably has more to do with how much rain there was during the previous spring and summer.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  MarkW
January 31, 2019 5:33 am

I did have the greatest amount and the sweetest tangerines this year. Still have another bucket or two to pick off my tree.

Reply to  MarkW
January 31, 2019 7:59 am


I think you got it right. Heavy rain and wind washes off the pollen and blooms if it comes at the critical time. The oak ‘blooms’ are tiny ~ 2″ long threads with about 30 blooms each. You need a good strong magnifying glass to see the blooms. When you observe loads of those threads on the ground after a thunder storm or passing front you probably wont see much if any mast produced that year from that tree. I think there is several days of vulnerability in the spring. At least in the mountains there can be some hope for success with the varying elevation and differing blooming times but a rainy spring can wipe out nearly everything..

Johann Wundersamer
Reply to  taz1999
January 30, 2019 10:46 pm
Samuel C Cogar
Reply to  taz1999
January 31, 2019 6:19 am

taz1999 – January 30, 2019 at 2:38 pm

Does anyone know if there are any fish/wives tales about oak acorns? Central fl oaks have dropped more acorns this year than I ever remember seeing.

taz1999, I think you will find a better answer to your question by reading this, to wit:
Oak Tree Pollen: A Spring Storm of Sneezes for Allergy Sufferers

“HA”, iffen you have a “bad” allergy season due to Oak pollen …… then you will probably have a great acorn producing season.

But lots of rain, thunderstorms and/or strong winds during the “oak pollination period” would prevent lots of the oak “bloom” from being pollinated. And then there are other potential problems that could hinder bud development or survival.

Reply to  Samuel C Cogar
January 31, 2019 8:38 am

Samuel C Cogar,

I commented above before reading yours. Thanks for the link, I will pass it along to some of the other hunters. I suspected a possible link to the wind and rain vs pollination about 30 years ago and took about 10 years to see the connection and 10 more years to be quite certain. I can do a pretty good ‘mast call’ from the weather radar now.

Over the past various claims have been given from late frost, previous years rain or winter weather, drought, claim that oaks only produce every few years, etc. After 15 years of calling the acorn crop I have convinced most. It takes a long time ’cause you only have one observation opportunity per year.

Samuel C Cogar
Reply to  eyesonu
February 1, 2019 3:49 am

eyesonu -January 31, 2019 at 8:38 am

Samuel C Cogar,

I commented above before reading yours.

No problem, eyesonu, ……. like they say, …. “two heads are better than one”. 😊

An interesting trivia about “late frosts”.

Most farmers of long time ago always planted their fruit trees (apples, cherries, etc.) or orchards high upon or on top of a hill for two reasons.

1: it was colder up there, and they didn’t blossom as early, thus a “late frost” wouldn’t kill the blossom.

2: being high upon a hill, in plain view and no place to hide, the fruit was protected from the birds eating it because the birds were fearful of hawks and other predator birds.

John Tillman
January 30, 2019 2:09 pm

Fisheries biologists led where GIGO computer gaming “climate scientists” didn’t dare go.

The most important climatological discovery of the 1990s had to be made by biologists because “climate scientists” aren’t scientists, by and large, but third rate math grads, like Gavin, or computer programmers.

Jim Steele
Reply to  John Tillman
January 30, 2019 3:10 pm

As an ecologist, I am very proud that it was biologists who were the first to understand climate oscillations, before climate scientists like Trenberth remained simply baffled.

Reply to  Jim Steele
January 31, 2019 6:33 am

Of course it was Peruvian fishermen in the 1800s who recognized the ENSO oscillation and named it “El Nino” since it tended to occur around Christmas.

HD Hoese
Reply to  John Tillman
January 30, 2019 3:21 pm

Some have been onto this for a long time despite confounding by heavy catches (even from Russians) sometimes and failure of some to accept natural fluctuations, which European cod fishermen knew long ago. These are three ones for the North Atlantic still being better understood.

Sutcliffe, W. H., Jr., K. Drinkwater and B. S. Muir. 1977. Correlations of fish catch and environmental factors in the Gulf of Maine. Journal Fisheries Research Board Canada. 34:19-30.
Cabilio, P., D. L. DeWolfe and G. R. Daborn. 1987. Fish catches and long-term tidal cycles in northwest Atlantic fisheries: a nonlinear regression approach. Canadian Journal Fisheries Aquaic. Science. 44:1891-1897.
Drinkwater, K. F. 2006. The regime shift of the 1920s and 30s in the North Atlantic. Journal Marine Systems. 68(2-4):134-151.

I recall seeing a bottom sample off Peru once–all fish bones.

Zig Zag Wanderer
January 30, 2019 2:14 pm

Its late fall and the Indians on a remote reservation in Mattawa asked their new chief if the coming winter was going to be cold or mild.

Since he was a chief in a modern society, he had never been taught the old secrets. When he looked at the sky, he couldn’t tell what the winter was going to be like.

Nevertheless, to be on the safe side, he told his tribe that the winter was indeed going to be cold and that the members of the village should collect firewood to be prepared.

But, being a practical leader, after several days, he got an idea. He went to the phone booth, called the Weather Network and asked, ‘Is the coming winter going to be cold?’

‘It looks like this winter is going to be quite cold,’ the meteorologist at the weather service responded.

So the chief went back to his people and told them to collect even more firewood in order to be prepared.

A week later, he called the Weather Network again. ‘Does it still look like it is going to be a very cold winter?’

‘Yes,’ the man at Weather Service again replied, ‘it’s going to be a very cold winter.’

The chief again went back to his people and ordered them to collect every scrap of firewood they could find.

Two weeks later, the chief called the Weather Network again. ‘Are you absolutely sure that the winter is going to be very cold?’

‘Absolutely,’ the man replied. ‘It’s looking more and more like it is going to be one of the coldest winters we’ve ever seen.’

‘How can you be so sure?’ the chief asked.

The weatherman replied, ‘Because the Indians are collecting a ####load of firewood’

Dave Miller
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
January 30, 2019 2:23 pm

I’m gonna use that one!

Kevin kilty
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
January 30, 2019 5:38 pm

AH! A meteorological version of Zanzibar metrology–metrology, the science of measurement.

January 30, 2019 2:36 pm

Here’s a modern example.

The Inuit (Eskimos) observed that the stars and sun are in the wrong places. link People told them not to say that because it would hurt their credibility. Observations showed that the Inuit were seeing something real. Because of warming over their lifetimes, the light was refracting differently at the horizon and the sun and stars looked like they were coming up in the wrong place.

It’s a bad mistake to think ‘stone age’ means stupid. The stone monuments they left indicate that stone age people had a clear understanding of astronomical cycles. It seems pretty reasonable that they understood salmon cycles too.

Reply to  commieBob
January 30, 2019 8:02 pm

Such changes in diffraction would distort the stars up or down, not right or left.

Reply to  MarkW
January 31, 2019 5:43 am

As the stars move across the sky they move horizontally, not just up and down. If the light bends over the horizon, the stars will appear to be in a different horizontal position wrt to the horizon. I’m guessing that, the farther south the star, the greater the effect. Indeed, some southern stars will be visible that couldn’t formerly be seen.

Samuel C Cogar
Reply to  commieBob
January 31, 2019 6:48 am

Right you are, …. and the most watched, recorded and religiously worshipped of said, per se, horizontally moving, horizon rising stars is the Dog Star. Its “rising” above the horizon “marks” the start of the Dog Days of Summer,…. to wit:

Sirius is well known as the Dog Star, because it’s the chief star in the constellation Canis Major, the Big Dog. Have you ever heard anyone speak of the dog days of summer? Sirius is behind the sun as seen from Earth in Northern Hemisphere summer. In late summer, it appears in the east before sunrise – near the sun in our sky.

Read more @

Rhys Jaggar
Reply to  commieBob
January 31, 2019 2:58 am

The Indians certainly did, they revered the salmon.


Because salmon fed half the ecosystem. Bears feast on them in the salmon run, leaving remains for birds, foxes, wolves etc to feast on. Fish that remain uneaten fertilise the soil with nitrogen-rich oils, promoting tree growth. Tree growth promote bird nesting, more berries and seeds to feed orhers etc etc.

Like beavers, salmon affect whole ecosystems.

The Indians understood all that.

January 30, 2019 2:37 pm

“So, did marine life also increase due to rising levels of CO2?”….

of course…..there would not be the White Cliffs of Dover if they didn’t

January 30, 2019 2:38 pm

Interesting. However, wouldn’t the fish be reacting to the changes in their systems and subsequently have some response lag to the actual changes. noting the pattern change will alert you to the fact that something is changing, but not what exactly nor what was the cause.
Surely the fish migration patterns don’t cause climate change.

Reply to  Rocketscientist
January 30, 2019 2:48 pm

Plankton influence atmospheric CO2. Fish eat plankton. Some people think we should stop eating fish lest we cause more global warming thereby. link

Jim Steele
Reply to  Rocketscientist
January 30, 2019 2:51 pm


I am curious what it is in the article that would ever suggest to you the silly notion that fish migration causes climate change?

Nick Schroeder
January 30, 2019 2:40 pm

“So how do we separate naturally caused weather extremes from human contributions?”

We could try SCIENCE!!!! (There aren’t any!!!)

This is how the give and take, back and forth, of scientific discourse works.

1) RGHE theory says that the earth is 288 K – 255 K = 33 C warmer with an atmosphere. I say that the 15 C, 288 K global mean surface temperature is just a guesstimate (IPCC AR 5 glossary pg 1,455) and the 255 K is an unrelated S-B calculation for the average 240 W/m^2 OLR at ToA with 30% albedo. For 255 K to be the temperature of the earth w/o an atmosphere the 30% albedo must remain which is not possible. Without an atmosphere (or w/o GHGs) there would be no vegetation, no water, no clouds, no ice, no snow, no oceans and an albedo similar to the moon’s 0.14. Without an atmosphere and the 30% albedo the earth would receive 20% to 40% more kJ/h of solar energy for a temperature increase of 20 C to 30 C. I say that because the atmosphere and its albedo reflect away 30% of the ISR the atmosphere actually cools the earth compared to no atmosphere.

2) RGHE theory says the 333 W/m^2 up/down/”back” GHG LWIR energy loop is responsible for the 33 C warmer earth. I say the 333 W/m^2 loop appears out of thin air violating 1st law conservation of energy, is a 100% efficient perpetual loop violating thermodynamics and moves energy from the cold troposphere to the warmer surface without adding work which also violates thermodynamics. If this were possible there would be refrigerators without power cords. I haven’t seen any. You?

3) RGHE theory says the GHG loop is powered by 289 K, 396 W/m^2 ideal black body radiation upwelling from the surface. I say because of the contiguous media participating in non-radiative processes, i.e. the air and water molecules, conduction, convection and latent processes, such upwelling ideal BB radiation is a “what if” calculation and not real. And in the grand scientific tradition I have actually performed a modest experiment that demonstrates the non-radiative processes and that a surface can radiate ideal BB only with no contiguous participating media, i.e. into a vacuum.

1 + 2 + 3 = 0 RGHE & 0 CO2 warming & 0 man-caused climate change.

Your turn, your say, bring science.

Nick Schroeder, BSME CU ’78, CO PE 22774

TFK_bams09 (16 C, 289 K, 396 W/m^2)

Experiments in the classical style:

With 30 % albedo: 957.6 W/m^2, 360.5 K, 87.5 C, 189.5 F
With 14% albedo: 1,176.5 W/m^2 (22.9%), 379.5 K, 106.5 C, 223.8 F
With 0% albedo: 1,367.5 W/m^2 (42.8%), 394.0 K, 121.0 C, 250.0 F

Reply to  Nick Schroeder
January 30, 2019 3:22 pm

Nick, do you know what the radiant flux values of N2, O2 and CO2 are? The w/m^2 values I have are 0.001, 0.018 and 0.134, respectively, but I have no idea if they are right.

Reply to  Nick Schroeder
January 30, 2019 4:20 pm

Geez Nick, the 396 W/m^2 is the warm surface radiating to the sky, and the 333 W/ m^2 is due to the sky having a temperature. Thot^4 – Tcold^4 in the SB equation, which, if you really have a BSME, you had to get right before you passed your first thermo course.

Reply to  DMacKenzie
January 30, 2019 4:53 pm
Nick Schroeder
Reply to  DMacKenzie
January 30, 2019 6:48 pm

This paper’s abstract concluded that 33C warmer is wrong.

From my posting above.

“Without an atmosphere and the 30% albedo the earth would receive 20% to 40% more kJ/h of solar energy for a temperature increase of 20 C to 30 C. I say that because the atmosphere and its albedo reflect away 30% of the ISR the atmosphere actually cools the earth compared to no atmosphere.”

i.e. no greenhouse effect. The atmosphere performs like that reflective panel set up on the dash.

Nick Schroeder
Reply to  DMacKenzie
January 30, 2019 6:45 pm


“Net” radiation is BS!
The 396 requires BB radiation from the surface which is simply not possible.
No 396 means no 333.
288 – 255 = 33 C warmer is more BS.
“Thot^4 – Tcold^4” ignores emissivity and A hot & A cold and is a corrupted meaningless S-B application.

Instead of just posting standard sound bites actually read and address the points in my post.

Reply to  Nick Schroeder
January 31, 2019 8:21 pm

Amazing work.

I’ve spoken about the mechanism of a ‘greenhouse’ gas being non existent for a while (being there’s no atmospheric ‘barrier’ to convection & conduction, etc); you’ve provided the hard facts.


January 30, 2019 2:47 pm

Thankyou, Zig Zag. I laughed out loud. Great story!

Steve Reddish
January 30, 2019 3:11 pm

(Science uses the term “oscillation” to describe repeating cycles with general, but imprecise time periods.)

Do solar scientists have their own terminology? I’ve always seen references to the “sunspot cycle” having variability.

This difference in terminology reminds me of our recent discussion about the use of “normal” by meteorologists.


Reply to  Steve Reddish
January 31, 2019 1:14 pm

As I understand it, cycles go round and round but oscillations go from side to side, or possibly backwards and forwards depending on where you are standing.

January 30, 2019 4:03 pm

Salmon fishing off Point No Point on the Kitsap Peninsula. Good times.

J Mac
Reply to  Troe
January 30, 2019 4:27 pm

Winter blackmouth?

January 30, 2019 5:58 pm

Not that all fishy tale are worth believing, even when they come from research done at an Australian University.

Oona Lönnstedt has been prolific, writing alarming papers on microplastics, acidification, and reef degradation. But her work looks like a trainwreck. One paper has been withdrawn, in another it was “found that Lonnstedt did not have time to undertake the research she claimed.” She’s been found guilty of fabricating data on the microplastics study. Now Peter Ridd has pointed out that the photos of 50 Lionfish appear to contain a lot less than 50 fish. Images have been flipped, spun or “manipulated” so the same fish appears more than once.

Reply to  tom0mason
January 31, 2019 7:45 am

She needed to fake photos of lion fish, really? That is some very shoddy research. I one day of diving in the south pacific or Caribbean (where they are invasive) I could photograph 50 lion fish. They don’t hide very well (if at all) nor swim very fast. I often don’t even waste digital space with the photographs of them because they are ubiquitous.
In the Caribbean where they are an invasive species they are quite prolific mostly because the local marine life wont eat them (due to their toxic spines). Local divers and fishermen are encouraged to catch them (spearing is very easy) and they are very good eating. Just nip off the spines with a good pair of sheers. Some divers have been spearing them, nipping off the spines and tossing them back onto the reef to encourage the local sea life to realize these fish are tasty.

Reply to  Rocketscientist
January 31, 2019 11:09 am


“Some divers have been spearing them, nipping off the spines and tossing them back onto the reef to encourage the local sea life to realize these fish are tasty.”
Nice idea, give nature a hand until the natural would-be Lionfish predators get the hint.

Ron Clutz(@ronaldrc)
January 30, 2019 6:35 pm

The intersection of folk and scientific wisdom is demonstrated in a case regarding an Arizona Navajo reservation.

Government officials in the 1950’s proposed to get rid of prairie dogs on some parts of the reservation in order to protect the roots of the sparse desert grass and thereby maintain at least marginal grazing for sheep.

Navajos objected strongly, insisting, “If you kill off all the prairie dogs, there will be no one to cry for the rain.” Of course they were assured by the amused government men that there was no conceivable connection between rain and prairie dogs, a fact that could be proven easily by a simple scientific experiment: a specific area would be set aside and all the burrowing animals there would be exterminated.

The experiment was carried out, over the continued objections of the Navajos, and its outcome was surprising only to the white scientists. Today, the area […] has become a virtual wasteland with very little grass. Apparently, without the ground-turning processes of the little burrowing animals, the sand in the area becomes solidly packed, causing a fierce runoff whenever it rains.

It would be incautious to suggest in this instance that the Navajos were possessed of a clear, conscious objective theory about water retention and absorption in packed sand. On the other hand, it would be difficult to ignore the fact that the Navajo myth system, which insists on delicate reciprocal responsibilities among elements of nature, dramatized more accurately than our science the results of an imbalance between principals in the rain process. (Barre Toelken here p. 21)

But folk wisdom is an unreliable, inconsistent kind of wisdom. For one thing, most proverbs coexist with their exact opposites, or at least with proverbs that give somewhat different advice. Now that climate change has passed into social discourse, proverbs and unsubstantiated claims are voiced among like-minded people, thereby reinforcing shared beliefs without any critical analysis to verify an objective reality to the sayings.

January 30, 2019 6:55 pm

Back in the early 1900’s there was a Cannery Row in San Francisco. They canned lots of sardines there. Now the area is all high end condo’s, fancy stores and restaurants, and some of the highest priced land in the city. Some time in the late 20’s, early 30’s the fish disappeared too far south.

Unfortunately the new population of socialists there haven’t read any history, or decided to ignore it.

Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it.

Tom Halla
Reply to  Philo
January 30, 2019 7:11 pm

Cannery Row was in Monterrey, not San Francisco.

Jim Steele
Reply to  Philo
January 30, 2019 7:31 pm

Indeed Cannery Row was in Monterrey and their museums give homage to the Pacific Decadal Oscillation that changed the fortunes of the local fisheries

Jim Steele
January 30, 2019 7:28 pm

I created a Google alert for any time the name “Jim Steele” was highlighted so I could get a sense of how people were responding to my posts. I received hundreds o alerts about other people, but never one linking to my blogs or posts.

This is the first time in 3 years that I have ever received a Google alert regards a post (Climate Fish Tales) I made on WUWT.

Has Google’s censorship policies changed or did they just like this article?

Reply to  Jim Steele
January 30, 2019 7:43 pm

Or mebbe they just fixed the alert mechanism?

Jim Steele
Reply to  Yirgach
January 30, 2019 7:52 pm

Mebbe! But three years to fix makes you wonder?

Reply to  Jim Steele
February 1, 2019 2:47 pm

Never fear Jim, I read your stuff. Just because google does not pick it up doesn’t mean its not read. More than that…appreciated. Like a tree falling in the forest, if no one hears it fall, Did it? Or something like that. Cheers.

Chad Jessup
January 30, 2019 9:51 pm

If memory serves me right, the Vikings discovered the North American continent by following the cod fish, which had swam quite far north due to warmer Atlantic waters.

Reply to  Chad Jessup
January 31, 2019 9:00 am

Not. It was discovered by a ship headed for Greenland but driven to Labrador by a storm. See Groenlaendinga saga.

Chad Jessup
Reply to  tty
January 31, 2019 1:28 pm

It was interesting to read that.

January 31, 2019 12:35 am

May I recommend ‘The Edge of Memory’ by Patrick Nunn….

this readable book covers memories of meteors, volcanic eruptions and especially sea level rise after the end of the ice age, from thousands of years ago, with numerous examples from Native Americans, Australians and Pacific Islanders…

It suggests that these memories do survive from a pre-literate age, where tradition has been continuous…

Reply to  griff
January 31, 2019 3:33 am

Thanks, looked interesting. I picked up a copy.

Samuel C Cogar
Reply to  griff
January 31, 2019 7:46 am

and especially sea level rise after the end of the ice age,

Sea level started rising at the start of the current Interglacial (22,000 BP), ……. the current Ice Age hasn’t ended.

Anyway, most every culture, past and present, has a historical “great flood” story of their own.

And I would not be so silly as to claim the designers and builders of the Great Pyramid of Giza, Machu Picchu, Göbekli Tepe and a dozen or so other historical sites as being constructed during a “pre-literate age”.

Reply to  Samuel C Cogar
January 31, 2019 9:03 am

Machu Picchu and Göbekli Tepe were built by pre-literate cultures, but definitely not the Grest Pyramid.

John Tillman
Reply to  Samuel C Cogar
January 31, 2019 2:57 pm

Twenty-two thousand years ago was still in the cold heart of the Last Glacial Maximum, more than 10,000 years before the start of the Holocene Interglacial.

It’s debatable whether the Inca were pre-literate or not. It has been suggested that their quipu, knotted cordage records, may well have served as written narrative as well as numerical documents.

Samuel C Cogar
Reply to  John Tillman
February 1, 2019 4:18 am

John Tillman, I should have been more precise and stated “at THE START OF the current Interglacial (20,000 YBP)” ….. as denoted on this proxy graph, Post-Glacial Sea Level Rise

And John, I consider the “START” of an Interglacial ….. when the glacial ice started melting, …. NOT after its already done melted.

John Tillman
Reply to  Samuel C Cogar
February 1, 2019 6:37 am


The ice wasn’t melting yet 20 Ka. The LGM was still in effect then, and would be for a few thousand years more. And even after the melt began, there were major refreezes, like the Dryas events, as always during glacial terminations.

The onset of the Holocene Interglacial has been defined with some precision. It started about 11,650 years ago.

Formal definition and dating of the GSSP (Global Stratotype Section and Point) for the base of the Holocene using the Greenland NGRIP ice core, and selected auxiliary records

Samuel C Cogar
Reply to  Samuel C Cogar
February 2, 2019 4:00 am

The ice wasn’t melting yet 20 Ka.

John Tillman, are you delusional …. or just being “educationally” contrary due to your NIH mindset?

GETTA CLUE, ….. John Tillman, ….. by 11,650 YBP, … Sea Level had already risen 60+- meters (197 feet), ……. therefore glacial ice melting had been inprocess for 9,350 years with the most RAPID melting @ 14,800 YBP …… as anyone can plainly see via these conjoined “proxy” graphs

But don’t look at that graph, John T, …. then you can claim you didn’t see anything and don‘t know nuttin about nuttin.

The onset of the Holocene Interglacial has been defined with some precision.

“YUP”, shur nuff John T, …. and so has CAGW, …. but other than you and yours, ….. who the feces cares about “consensus science”? I sure as ell don’t and never did.

January 31, 2019 5:31 pm

Isn’t it interesting that scientists observed the Pacific oscillation and described it, then went on to look at the Atlantic basin and find another cycle of oscillation? And which oscillations neatly fit the realities of experience for hundreds of years of data on salmon and other fisheries. Further observations of climatic/weather effects from these events showed clearly demonstrable outcomes for seasonal weather on the continents.
Why is it not taught in schools? In the 1970’s I took a university course that included a unit on ecology. That is why I knew for decades that California has a drought season, a rainy season and that is why wildfires are so prevalent followed by the rain which leads from fire season to mudslide season.
Recently an article about an interactive fire map for California was posted on this site. The link was absolutely fascinating, spanning the period from last third of 19th Century to last year. There have always been wildfires every year scattered throughout the state. Some years there are a lot but they were relatively small in comparison to the wildfires since the 1970’s when extremists took over forestry practices in the state, to the detriment of the citizens’ health. safety, prosperity and future concerns are of no concern to them.

Arthur Clapham
February 12, 2019 7:36 am

The mention of Mark Twain earlier in the piece made me think of one of his quotes- which could apply to some of our Climate Experts!!
” It is better to keep ones mouth shut and appear a Fool, rather than open it and remove any possible doubt!!

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