The Social Benefit Of Carbon

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

After my recent post on the futility of the US cutting down on CO2 emissions, I got to thinking about what is called the “social cost of carbon”. (In passing, even the name is a lie. It’s actually the supposed cost of carbon DIOXIDE, not carbon … salesmanship and “framing” applied to what should be science. But I digress …)

According to the Environmental Defense Fund the “social cost of carbon” is:

… the dollar value of the total damages from emitting one ton of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. The current central estimate of the social cost of carbon is roughly $40 per ton.

Now, for me, discussing the “social cost of carbon” is a dereliction of scientific duty because it is only half of an analysis.

A real analysis is where you draw a vertical line down the middle of a sheet of paper. At the top of one side of the paper you write “Costs”, and under that heading, you list the costs of whatever you are analyzing … and at the top of the other side of the paper you write “Benefits” and beneath, you list those benefits. This is what is called a “cost/benefit analysis”, and only considering only the “Costs” column and ignoring the “Benefits” column constitutes scientific malfeasance.

Instead of just looking at the “social cost of carbon”, we also need to look at the “social benefit of carbon”, which if I follow the logic of the previous definition would be the dollar value of the total benefits from emitting one ton of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

Now, the carbon emissions are coming from the use of fossil fuels. This set me to wondering about the historical changes in the mix of different fuels that power our planetary economy. So as is my wont, I got the data and I graphed it up. Figure 1 shows the changes in the mix of the fuels that the world uses to give us our amazing standard of living.

Figure 1: Global Total Primary Energy Consumption, 1965-2017.

First a word about units used to measure energy. The units of energy in Figure 1 are “million tonnes of oil equivalent”, abbreviated Mtoe. (“Tonnes” means metric tons of 1,000 kilograms, which are about 2200 pounds.).

An “Mtoe” is the amount of a given energy source, be it coal, natural gas, solar, or hydroelectric, that has the same amount of energy as a million tonnes of oil. There are other variants of this measure, such as billion tonnes of oil equivalent (Btoe), thousand or “kilo” tonnes of oil equivalent (Ktoe), and barrels of oil equivalent (BOE). One BOE is equivalent to 1,682 kilowatt-hours of energy. For these types of conversions from one unit to another I use the wonderful UnitJuggler.

Now that we understand the units, see that red thread up at the top of Figure 1 above? That’s solar energy.

Plus wind energy.

Plus biofuels energy from ethanol and biodiesel.

Plus geothermal energy.

Plus tidal energy.

Plus biomass energy.

Plus wave energy.

In short, that red line is the sum of every kind of renewable energy we use commercially, and after years of subsidies, it’s grown all the way up to being two and a half percent of the total energy we use.

Be still, my beating heart …

And sadly, this has been at a huge cost to the taxpayer. Not only does the renewable energy itself cost more than either fossil fuels or nuclear energy, but the subsidies are also horrendous. Figure 2 shows a part of what the US taxpayer has been shelling out for the privilege of using unreliable, weak, intermittent renewable energy …

Figure 2. Average US subsidies on various fuel sources.

Figure 2 shows the subsidy per barrel of oil equivalent energy (BOE). For energy from oil and coal, the subsidy is trivially small. For nuclear, it’s larger, but still reasonable, since nuclear energy is dispatchable reliable baseline power.

But the subsidy for intermittent, unreliable renewable energy is huge. For comparison with the renewable subsidy, today’s price for a barrel of West Texas Intermediate (WTI) crude oil is $51.15. Plus the $0.26 per barrel subsidy on oil, we’re paying $51.41 per barrel … which means that the subsidy alone on renewable energy is over half of the cost of an equivalent amount of oil!

And that’s just the Federal subsidies. In addition, states like California have costly “Cap And Trade” programs, “carbon taxes”, and “renewable mandates” that are all extra costs tacked on to the price of renewable energy.

And even with that huge Federal subsidy, plus all of the other coercive measures used to push the renewable dream year after year, after immense amounts of money spent decade after decade, after all of that, renewable energy is STILL less than three percent of the global energy usage.

And as we’ve seen in France, folks are getting fed up with paying this exorbitant subsidy for an economically uncompetitive form of energy …

One thing that these figures make abundantly clear is that renewable energy ain’t gonna save us. For the foreseeable future, the world will continue to be powered mostly by fossil fuels, and all the subsidies, and all the carbon taxes, and all the “renewable mandates”, and all the US Resolutions and the wishful thinking won’t change that.

While looking at the graphs above, I fell to considering how energy is inextricably linked to economic development. Energy is what drives the great economic engine of the planet, the engine that has lifted us out of the ugly, short, brutal lives of our predecessors and has insulated us from the vagaries of the weather.

So … how well does historical energy use correlate with the global Gross Domestic Product, which is the global sum of all of the goods and services produced annually? Figure 3 shows that relationship.

Figure 3. Scatterplot, global energy use versus global gross domestic product. Energy use source as in Figure 1. As noted on the vertical axis, all prices are in constant (inflation-adjusted) current US$.

As you can see, the global Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is a simple linear function of how much energy we use. You could think of the economy as a giant machine that turns energy into goods and services. We harvest energy in one of a hundred forms, including human labor, and we use that energy to make steel and build houses and create medicines and catch fish and grow food and manufacture automobiles and engage in all forms of creation of wealth. The relationship is clear—how wealthy we are is simply a function of how much energy we can command.

Now, every year the world is needing to feed and house and clothe and transport an increasing number of people. It’s not optional. The population is going up. Not only that, but poor people want to have reasonably comfortable lives like those of us in the industrialized world. There are only two ways that we will be able to take care of all of their needs.

The two ways are first, to use more energy … and second, to use it all more efficiently. Regarding efficiency, Figure 4 shows the increase over time in the GDP per barrel of oil equivalent energy used.

Figure 4. Change over time in the amount of goods and services (constant 2016 dollars) that we get from using energy. As noted on the vertical axis, all prices are in constant (inflation-adjusted) current US$.

Now, this is interesting. Back in 1965, for every barrel of oil equivalent energy that we used, we got about fifty dollars worth of goods and services.

And today, about fifty years later, we’re getting about five hundred dollars worth of goods and services out of the exact same amount of energy. This is good news—we’re getting more and more goods and services out of each unit of energy that we use. Thanks to the joys of competition and the fact that energy costs money, we’re constantly finding new and inventive ways to produce more with less energy.

With that relationship between energy and GDP as prologue, let me follow another train of thought. Fossil fuels are hydrocarbons, so-called because they are compounds of hydrogen and carbon. When they are burned, you get energy from two sources—the hydrogen and the carbon. When you burn hydrogen, you get water plus energy. When you burn carbon, you get carbon dioxide plus energy.

This means that the amount of carbon dioxide produced is a direct and simple function of the amount of energy used. Given the same mix of energy sources, more CO2 produced means more energy used, and vice versa. Figure 5 shows that relationship

Figure 5. Tonnes of CO2 emitted per tonnes of oil equivalent energy used.

(Yes, I know that it’s strange that we get more than one tonne of CO2 from burning one tonne of oil. The reason is that the oxygen in the carbon dioxide comes from the air. Before burning, the molecular weight of the carbon is 12 … after burning, the molecular weight of the CO2 is 44. Because of that, we get more than a tonne of CO2 out of burning a tonne of oil. We now return you to your previously scheduled programming …)

And this brings us to the final relationship. We know that both GDP and CO2 emissions are functions of the amount of energy used. This, of course, means that we can take a look at the relationship between GDP and CO2. To make the relationship clear and understandable, I’ve added CO2 to Figure 3, which showed GDP versus Energy Use.

Figure 6. Scatterplot, global energy use and concomitant CO2 emissions versus global gross domestic product. Energy use source as in Figure 1. As noted on the vertical axis, all prices are in constant (inflation-adjusted) current US$.

As in Figure 3, Figure 6 again shows that for each additional tonne of oil equivalent energy use, we get $5,740 in additional goods and services.

It also shows that for each additional tonne of CO2 produced from that energy use, we get $4,380 in additional goods and services.

And this brings me back to the question of cost/benefit analyses and the idea of the “social benefit of carbon”. As noted above, people put the “social cost of carbon” (actually carbon dioxide) at “roughly $40 per ton”.

Now, remember that corresponding to the “social cost of carbon”, the “social benefit of carbon” is:

… the dollar value of the total benefits from emitting one ton of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

As Figure 6 shows, the benefit that we get from emitting that additional tonne of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere is an increase in goods and services of $4,380 … which dwarfs the assumed social cost of carbon of $40. When we do an actual cost/benefit analysis, the result is almost all benefit.


FOOTNOTE: Let me add one other much smaller aspect of the question of the social benefit of carbon. This involves the “greening” of the planet due to the increased atmospheric carbon dioxide. Greenhouse owners routinely release CO2 inside their greenhouses to improve plant growth. Figure 7 shows plant growth at ambient (AMB) CO2 levels, as well as at the current level plus 150, 300, and 450 ppmv.

Figure 7. Plant growth under differing levels of CO2.

Now, the best estimate is that to date, the increasing levels of atmospheric CO2 have increased global plant growth by about 10%.

To see how much difference that 10% makes to the human agricultural production, I turn to that marvelous site, the Food and Agricultural Organization (FAO) dataset, available here. It says that the total of all commercially-raised fruit, vegetable, and fiber production in 2016 was about US$4.6 trillion. If we assume that it increased by 7% due to the increased plant growth from CO2, that is a benefit of about US$322 billion dollars.

And dividing that by the 33.5 billion tonnes of CO2 emitted in 2016 gives us a net benefit of about $9 per tonne of CO2 … and I note that this does NOT include the value of the 10% growth in things like forest production of timber, or the increase in oceanic production of plankton and associated marine growth, or the increase in meat and dairy production due to increased pasture growth, or the increase in home-garden vegetables (which make up a surprising amount of world food production).

It also doesn’t include the benefits of the decreased cost of water used to produce fruits, fibers, and vegetables. Plants have pores in their skin through which they take in CO2. The less CO2 the air contains, the wider those pores must open. The problem is that water escapes through the pores, and the wider the pores open, the more water the plant uses, and thus the more water the plant needs to stay healthy. So when CO2 levels go up, water use goes down … another social benefit of CO2.

My conclusion? The reason that alarmists talk about the “social cost of carbon” and never talk about the “social benefits of carbon” is that the assumed possible costs of engaging in activities that emit CO2 are in measured in tens of dollars per tonne of CO2. Not only that, but those are predicted future costs, which will be valid only if the “CO2 Roolz The Temperature” theory is correct.

But the social benefits of engaging in activities that emit carbon dioxide, as we’ve seen above, are measured in thousands of dollars per tonne of CO2 … and those are real measurable benefits that don’t depend on alarmist doomcasts of future claimed catastrophes.


Here, a bit of rain again, a good day for writing. The cat just came in, he’s not happy about the rain, but the forest plants are loving it.

My wish for all of you is for days of rain when you need water, days of sun when you need to recharge your mental batteries, and the wisdom to know that the weather doesn’t give a damn which one you might want on any given day …

w.

PS—Misunderstandings are the bane of the intarwebs. In the interest of clarity, when you comment please quote the exact words that you are discussing, so we can all be clear about both your subject and who you are addressing.

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December 15, 2018 10:13 am

Good post Willis – thank you.

Fossil fuels continue to comprise about 85% of global primary energy, unchanged in decades despite huge growth in global primary energy and trillions in wasted subsidies for intermittent green energy nonsense.

If fossil fuels were eliminated tomorrow as the greens insist, everyone in the developed world would be dead in a month from starvation and exposure.

Best, Allan

Chris Riley
Reply to  ALLAN MACRAE
December 15, 2018 10:08 pm

“If fossil fuels were eliminated tomorrow as the greens insist, everyone in the developed world would be dead in a month from starvation and exposure.”

They know this.very well. The real goal here is, and has always been, the liquidation of individual sovereignty.

It is time to bring back the HUAC. ( House Un-American Affairs Committee)

Reply to  Chris Riley
December 16, 2018 7:17 am

Allan MacRae wrote:
“If fossil fuels were eliminated tomorrow as the greens insist, everyone in the developed world would be dead in a month from starvation and exposure.”

Allan MacRae wrote:
“If fossil fuels were eliminated tomorrow as the greens insist, everyone in the developed world would be dead in a month from starvation and exposure.”

Chris Riley wrote:
“They know this very well. The real goal here is, and has always been, the liquidation of individual sovereignty.
It is time to bring back the HUAC. (House Un-American Affairs Committee)”

Chris, I believe you are correct.
The far-left, phony-greens are traitors who are trying to destroy our society and our freedoms. They belong in jail.

Reply to  ALLAN MACRAE
December 16, 2018 7:27 am

https://torontosun.com/opinion/editorials/bonokoski-2018-shaping-up-to-be-a-doozy#comments

Here is how modern politics works:

The far-left is winning, especially in the developing world, where over 100 countries are pseudo-Marxist dictatorships, based on their leftist phony rhetoric, but are actually just military dictatorships, run for the ruling elite and their armed thugs – see Zimbabwe and Venezuela… and North Korea, and many more..

The left gains political power by promising imbeciles lots of free stuff. Then they destroy the economy, create widespread poverty and live like kings atop a ruined state – because you can’t be kings without lots of peasants.

It is really no different in the developed world. Get elected by lazy greedy imbeciles, destroy the economy with fake green energy and other crazy policies, and live like kings on top of a ruined economy, looking down on all the peasants.

Reply to  ALLAN MACRAE
December 16, 2018 12:09 am

Yep, that US carbon production benefits the ENTIRE planets crop yields. It isnt 9$ per tonne, it is more like $90!

Jim
Reply to  ALLAN MACRAE
December 16, 2018 9:47 am

An excellent post! I would love to see a detailed analysis and estimate of the number of deaths or percentage of population that would likely die in the event fossil fuels were eliminated in 10 years. I have a hunch that the resulting carnage world wide would far exceed the negative impact of a gradual increase in temperature.

December 15, 2018 10:16 am

Yes, this is what makes the very concept of the eco-loon “social cost of carbon” nonsense. The benefits dwarf any perceived costs — just as a start, without our added CO2 we wouldn’t be able to feed the world right now.

PaulH
Reply to  beng135
December 15, 2018 11:00 am

+1

Jean Parisot
Reply to  beng135
December 15, 2018 11:59 am

The benefits CO2 itself provides for food security alone dwarf any predicted risk posed by warming. That ignores the benefits of cheap energy or the intrinsic benefit of a warmer world (accepting their co2 driven feedback model for the sake of argument).

I wish co2 could raise temp a degree or 2 and we could push it up to 800-1200ppm. Any other course of action is inhumane. We need to feed 10B people.

John Tillman
December 15, 2018 10:18 am

Plankton generally get their carbon dioxide from water.

C4 plants, such as corn (maize), sorghum, millet, sugar cane and pineapple, account for about 23% of carbon fixation (primary productivity), so your estimate of 7% rather than 10% increase from more plant food in the air is reasonable. All trees are C3 plants, so the effect on forestry and browsing animals would be more pronounced.

Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
December 15, 2018 11:58 am

You said 7%, but it appears you then used 10% to get the $460 billion figure.

Reply to  John Tillman
December 15, 2018 6:15 pm

Details:
As I recall, almost all food plants use the C3 photosynthetic pathway and shut down at about 160 ppm atmospheric CO2.
Only about 3% of land plants use the C4 pathway, including corn, sugar cane, sorghum and millet, and can survive in lower CO2 concentrations.
About 8% of land plants use the CAM pathway, including pineapple.

Here is one reference:
https://www.cropsreview.com/c3-plants.html

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/30/co2-temperatures-and-ice-ages/#comment-79524

(Plant) Food for Thought (apologies – written too late at night)

[excerpt]

When life on Earth comes to an end, will it be because CO2 permanently falls below ~150ppm as it is permanently sequestered in carbonate rocks, hydrocarbons, coals, etc.?

Since life on Earth is likely to end due to a lack of CO2, should we be paying energy companies to burn fossil fuels to increase atmospheric CO2, instead of fining them due to the false belief that CO2 causes dangerous global warming?

Jean Parisot
Reply to  ALLAN MACRAE
December 16, 2018 6:26 am

Since life on Earth is likely to end due to a lack of CO2, should we be paying energy companies to burn fossil fuels to increase atmospheric CO2, instead of fining them due to the false belief that CO2 causes dangerous global warming?

At least a decent tax credit for saving life itself.

Reply to  Jean Parisot
December 16, 2018 11:35 pm

Salut Jean!
You might enjoy this old post.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/07/02/opening-up-the-climate-policy-envelope/#comment-2394869

Atmospheric CO2 is inexorably declining as it is being sequestered in carbonate rocks. In the last Continental Last Ice Age, atmospheric CO2 declined to about 180 ppm – in the next Ice Age it could drop lower, even closer to the extinction point of C3 plants at about 150-160 ppm. ”

Virtually ALL food plants use the C3 photosynthetic pathway, so a drop of atmospheric CO2 to 150-160 ppm will be an extinction event for ~all advanced terrestrial life on Earth.

A few food plants (less than 1%) use the C4 photosynthetic pathway, including corn and sugar cane – but I doubt terrestrial life could survive for long on Sugar Frosted Flakes – notwithstanding the persistent rumour that “They’re Great!” 🙂

There are also CAM photosynthetic pathway plants, so we can look forward to having pineapple with our Sugar Frosted Flakes.

Jimmy Finley
Reply to  ALLAN MACRAE
December 16, 2018 8:27 am

Makes me, exploration geologist and science fiction fan, start thinking about “mining” the atmosphere of Venus. Hover over the planet, suck up gas, separate out the acid, and ship compressed CO2 back to Earth. It actually might work.

Jim
Reply to  Jimmy Finley
December 16, 2018 11:22 am

No exploration geologist needed for this effort! Just development and production geologists and mining engineers (and maybe an aeronautical engineer or two).

Cliff Hilton
Reply to  ALLAN MACRAE
December 16, 2018 3:24 pm

Allen, life will end in fire. For those that don’t believe. There’s no since in wondering how things end. The Holy Scriptures have never been wrong.

Heaven and Earth will flee from the Great White Thrown of judgment and will not be seen again. Revelation 20:11. Both will be destroyed. No lack of CO2. Just lack of righteousness.

Reply to  Cliff Hilton
December 16, 2018 5:53 pm

Cliff – I’m working on the righteousness angle. 🙂

Best, Allan

Here is a story – you might find it of interest.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/09/07/the-advantages-of-change-climate-and-otherwise/#comment-2451345

[Question: What are the odds that my informant would call me, of all the citizens of Calgary, especially since only a very few people would immediately understand the risk and even fewer would act on it, AND my informant did NOT know of my history with the project.]

Richard S.J. Tol
December 15, 2018 10:23 am
Reply to  Richard S.J. Tol
December 15, 2018 1:44 pm
Coeur de Lion
December 15, 2018 10:24 am

Golly, I have so many acquaintances who could profit from this of rammed through their letterboxes. That first graph especially.

Jimmy Finley
Reply to  Coeur de Lion
December 16, 2018 8:32 am

Amen. As typical of Willis, well written and illustrated, and interesting. I may be making a .pdf of this and sending it to are concerned to some degree but not enough to really take sides in the argument.

Bruce Cobb
December 15, 2018 10:26 am

The “social costs of carbon” are sort of like the “social costs water”, or even, the “social costs of oxygen”. Or how about, the “social costs of iron”? Absurd. But that’s GreenLogic for you.

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
December 15, 2018 11:37 am

Right, it’s like complaining that water causes drowning/flooding, and oxygen causes fires and rusting.

MrGrimNasty
December 15, 2018 10:26 am

The whole of our economic systems, our prosperity, our food production, the level of population……..the whole lot, our very existence…………… it’s all based on the leverage that fossil fuels provide and which wind and solar can not ever provide. If 1 man day is used to exploit fossil fuels, how many man days does it ‘free up’ for other endeavors? An awful lot more than every man day spent building windmills or solar panels.

The world will descend in famine disease and anarchy without wide spread fossil fuels (or nuclear). There is currently no alternative.

All the climate change lies, false accounting, junk science, ideological brainwashing……… it is all swept aside by that one truth.

Mark Pawelek
Reply to  MrGrimNasty
December 15, 2018 10:49 am

Benefits: a working economy with industry and new infrastructure. Jobs for all who want them. No major disease nor famine. Falling crime rate.
Costs: In economic externalities = $40/tonne of ‘carbon’ released.

I think I can live with those benefits.

December 15, 2018 10:27 am

This post should be nailed to the doors of every venue where a climate conference is held or going to be held.
It should be the preface of every program or booklet given out to the delegates of such conferences.
It should be on posters in public places, everywhere.

Thank you for this excellent post!

DeeDub
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
December 15, 2018 3:42 pm

Awesome, Willis, I had read the article linked below a few years ago, and found it compelling. Yours confirms it and more.

Many thanks.

http://notrickszone.com/2015/10/15/social-benefit-of-carbon-is-ten-to-a-hundred-times-the-estimated-social-cost

Stu Miller
December 15, 2018 10:32 am

Willis,

Nice study, but did you correct the GDP data for inflation? If not, that might be a useful addition to remove a possible criticism from the usual suspects.

Gary
December 15, 2018 10:44 am

Willis,

Plants have pores in their skin through which they take in CO2. The less CO2 the air contains, the wider those pores must open. The problem is that water escapes through the pores, and the wider the pores open, the more water the plant uses, and thus the more water the plant needs to stay healthy. So when CO2 levels go up, water use goes down … another social benefit of CO2.

Better check on this. Pore opening depends on the turgor of the guard cells surrounding the opening and research seems to indicate CO2 is not the control factor. However, the density of pores does seem to be related to CO2 concentration. Also, water loss may have some beneficial effect by cooling of leaves. At any rate, transpiration and water movement through plants brings various dissolved elements to growing stems and leaves. More growth requires more of these nutrients so evaporation will necessarily increase.

Reply to  Gary
December 15, 2018 11:00 am

Gary,

It seems that water management is getting better too with more CO2: the net plant growth is worldwide specifically larges in (semi-)deserts…

John Tillman
Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
December 15, 2018 2:35 pm

The density of stomata is used as a paleoproxy for ancient CO2 concentration. Its one indication of CO2 concentration in the 300s ppm during the Eemian, the previous interglacial, warmer and so far longer lasting than the Holocene.

Stomata open and close largely under osmotic pressure.

December 15, 2018 10:45 am

As always, a well illustrated, clearly presented analysis, Willis. It is also generously understated. A major benefit of fossil fuels that could be legitimately added is the enormous taxes paid by energy companies to governments. One can argue fairly that these are paid by the consumer in the cost of the fuel, but since you mentioned subsidies to the fossil fuel industry (and the renewablers), this massive tax revenue would totally be lost to government for its expenditures were the world to be tufted by windmills and glazed with solar to the exclusion of fossil fuels. Governments would have to extract this lost revenue from the taxpayer in other ways, PLUS provide 50 times the current unit subsidy of $28 given to renewables. The difference is a huge benefit to society of fossil carbon dioxide.

Marcus
December 15, 2018 10:49 am

Wow Willis, this has to be your best post ever…It really needs to be turned into a YouTube video…( and not one dang spelling/grammar mistake for me to whine about ) lol.

+ 1k likes

December 15, 2018 10:51 am

Wouldn’t it be better to talk about the social cost of carbon burned as compared to CO^2 which is a 14/44 smaller number and wouldn’t include other use?

Wharfplank
December 15, 2018 11:06 am

Seems the quickest way to kill off “renewables” is for congress to eliminate subsidies…which means “intermittants” are eternal.

Tom Halla
Reply to  Wharfplank
December 15, 2018 11:53 am

It is not just subsidies per se, but requirements utilities use a certain percentage of renewables, and placing renewables at the head of the line for priority on the grid.
Perhaps a better method would be to recognize that grid electricity is a service, not a commodity as such. If the suppliers were bidding for providing a given amount of power for some period of time, with requirement as to reliability, wind and solar would be priced accordingly (and much lower).

Red94ViperRT10
Reply to  Tom Halla
December 15, 2018 8:32 pm

…placing renewables at the head of the line for priority on the grid…”

which is called a “feed-in tariff”.

Tom Halla
December 15, 2018 11:06 am

Willis, when you did the economic benefits of a barrel of oil equivalent, was that in inflation adjusted or current year prices?

Dan Hughes
December 15, 2018 11:06 am

Willis said:

“(“Tonnes” means metric tons of 1,000 kilograms, also called “long tons”, which are about 2200 pounds.).”

A Tonne is 1000 kilograms, which is approximately 2204.6226 pounds, and can be rounded to “about” 2200 pounds, I guess. The USA Ton is 2000 pounds. A Long Ton, however, is 2240 pounds, and might be a British Ton.

colin smith
Reply to  Dan Hughes
December 16, 2018 9:26 am

Indeed it is a British or better “Imperial” ton (2240 pounds).
I, as an Englishman, didn’t know that it is not only our common language and size of our pints that differentiates us (from the US) but also our tons 🙂

December 15, 2018 11:10 am

Willis,

Excellent article as usual…

One small remark:
There is a good scientific reason to talk about carbon and not carbon dioxide: it is only CO2 in the atmosphere. In the raw materials it is mostly C in coal, CxHx in oil and CH4 in natural gas. In all cases that converts to CO2, but again when absorbed that is 1% CO2, 90% bicarbonates and 9% carbonates in seawater, a fraction of a second CO2 in plants and then one gets a host of molecules: carbohydrates (sugar, starch, cellulose) and other stuff…

Just follow the carbon cycle and nothing can hide anywhere or being lost: no matter in what molecule the carbon atom is incorporated, the mass balance must fit…

Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
December 15, 2018 11:42 am

+42

Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
December 15, 2018 11:51 am

Technically Willis, you’re pointing out that the realized economic benefits of carbon-based fuels far exceed the future speculative costs of extra carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

Red94ViperRT10
Reply to  David Middleton
December 15, 2018 8:29 pm

Right. I scanned all the way through just to see if anyone else brought this up, and David indeed you did. At the very beginning Willis quoted

… the dollar value of the total damages from emitting one ton of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.”

and then followed on with the inverse definition, of

…the dollar value of the total benefits from emitting one ton of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

(For a real quibble I will point out that the first definition was quoted from other sources, and therefore is correctly displayed as a block quote, but the second definition is one you produced yourself, and therefore it is incorrect to show it as a block quote. It does, however, set it off and make it easier to find, so I suppose we could forgive that one.)

So what you should be showing is only the benefits of that carbon after it is spewed into the atmosphere as carbon dioxide, by your definition it matters not how it got there (yes I know the SCC calculations pertain only to CO2 in the atmosphere allegedly derived from the combustion of fossil fuels, but it doesn’t really say that in their definition, so they should be calculating the SCC for ALL CO2 emitted into the atmosphere; and likewise your definition… but you’re calculating SBC for the same quantity they’re calculating SCC, so you’re consistent). That means you could, even should, snip out everything from the paragraph before Figure 1 all the way to your “FOOTNOTE:…”

Now if you calculate as a benefit of atmospheric carbon dioxide all the energy produced by combusting that fossil fuel to generate that carbon dioxide, then the calculators of SCC could calculate the harm of any concurrent real pollutants (other than CO2, that’s not a real pollutant) released during said combustion of said fossil fuels.

Please be nice when you give me your GTH response. By “be nice” I only ask that you keep it clean, I may want to show this exchange to my wife and live-in grandchildren. 🙂

Reply to  Red94ViperRT10
December 16, 2018 4:36 am

If you’re going to analyze the cost-benefit relationship of any regulation of industrial processes, you have to include the full benefits of the industrial processes. Otherwise, it’s junk economics.

Red94ViperRT10
Reply to  Red94ViperRT10
December 16, 2018 10:15 am

Middleton December 16, 2018 at 4:36 am Thank you! So really, my comment was aimed more at the “Social Cost Of Carbon” warriors, who carefully set up their definition and then proceed to calculate something else! But I knew it was unfair the very second I first heard of such a thing. It was set-up the same as the L&C 97%-concensus paper, where they had in mind a number before they ever even started, and only went through the exercise of assembling numbers to try to provide cover and fool some of the people.

John F. Hultquist
Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
December 15, 2018 1:50 pm

I think we should be using the term “carbon-based” rather than fossil fuel.
But then, only my mother ever cared what I thought.

For the record, shortly after I came along the folks switched from burning coal to gas for heating.
My sister and cousins cleaned up the coal storage area and then used it for a play room. The girls thought it was great progress.

John M Ware
Reply to  John F. Hultquist
December 15, 2018 2:23 pm

I read an article recently that disputed the term “fossil fuel” on the ground that oil reserves are now being discovered and used that are far deeper than animals or plants have ever been; thus, fossils are not involved in that oil, and by extension perhaps not in any oil. I can’t locate the article, but it seemed persuasive to me. Has anyone else read about this?

John F. Hultquist
Reply to  John M Ware
December 15, 2018 5:22 pm

You will find some of the abiogenic petroleum discussion at No Tricks Zone and here on WUWT.
I don’t find any of it compelling, although small amounts can be found.

I don’t like the term fossil fuel because it really has nothing to do with true fossils and it perpetuates the Sinclair Dino.

Tom
Reply to  John M Ware
December 15, 2018 6:34 pm

I highly recommend the book The Deep Hot Biosphere by Thomas Gold,

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_13?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=the+deep+hot+biosphere+the+myth+of+fossil+fuels+by+thomas+gold&sprefix=the+deep+hot+

It is Gold’s premise that the vast, vast majority of hydrocarbon deposits of oil and gas and hard coal on earth are from hydrocarbons present in the original stellar accretions of space dust which amalgamated to become the earth. As such, these reserves are NOT biological in origin, the reserves are much more abundant than thought, are fully renewable, and virtually inexhaustible.

Thomas Gold is no dummy:

Thomas Gold is a member of the National Academy of Sciences, a Fellow of the Royal Society, and an Emeritus Professor of Physics at Cornell University. Regarded as one of the most creative and wide-ranging scientists of his generation, he has taught at Cambridge University and Harvard, and for 20 years was the Director of the Cornell Center for Radiophysics and Space Research.

Researchers have found highly complex organic molecules in deep space.

“not only are stars producing this complex matter on extremely short time scales of weeks, but they are also ejecting it into the general interstellar space in between stars.”

http://newatlas.com/organic-stardust-discovered/20310/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=90696c5d47-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email

I imagine it will take some time to get rid of the belief that oil and gas are “fossil” fuels and non-renewable.

Red94ViperRT10
Reply to  John M Ware
December 15, 2018 8:42 pm

Even if the abiogenic petroleum hypothesis turns out to be valid, I still think we’re burning it up faster than the Earth can replenish. That doesn’t mean I believe in “peak-oil” though. Well, I do, but I also believe there are reserves we have not yet even discovered, and as technology advances, many uneconomic reserves will become economic. And by the time we begin to make a dent in the oil reserves, we will have conquered the regulatory stranglehold over nuclear energy, or found a cold-fusion process or something maybe even completely unrelated that will guarantee energy abundance for all perpetuity. I’m just throwing this out to be contrary.

Reply to  Red94ViperRT10
December 16, 2018 2:43 am

Starting off with the fact that there is zero-point-zero evidence of any significant volumes of abiogenic crude oil on Earth (methane is not oil), even if oil was abiogenic, it has to be produced from economically viable accumulations. These are 100% sedimentary rocks or fractured basement/crystaline rocks in or adjacent to sedimentary basins. In the case of shale and other unconventional plays, we are producing it directly from source rocks.

Oil is still being generated is sedimentary basins and migrating into reservoir rocks. This has been observed and even documented with 4d seismic in Eugene Island 330 field in the Gulf of Mexico. However, we are producing it much faster, by many orders of magnitude, than it is forming and migrating into reservoir rocks. If oil was renewable on a human time scale, oil reservoirs wouldn’t exihibit decline curves… and all oil reservoirs eventually exhibit decline curves.

Peak Oil is just a mathematical approximation of a decline curve on a regional or global scale. It’s a logistic function. Generally speaking, the peak rate of oil production coincides with the point in time at which half the total recoverable resource has been produced.

Over the past 150 years, we’ve produced about 17% of the best current estimate of the total technically recoverable oil on Earth. If that entire resource became economically recoverable, we would be about 1/3 of the way to “Peak Oil.” However, the estimated technically recoverable resource has grown over time as technology and our understanding of total petroleum systems have improved.

Basically, “Peak Oil” is both real and largely irrelevant, like EROEI and the Social Cost of Carbon.

DMA
December 15, 2018 11:40 am

Excellent analysis of benefits correlation to emissions. It should also be noted that this type of analysis of CO2 emissions costs cannot be done as the assumption that human emissions are responsible for the recent rise in CO2 in the atmosphere is not defensible. All of the projected costs are from warming due to increased CO2 in the atmosphere not to comparisons of cost growth to emission growth.

Hadyn
December 15, 2018 11:43 am

Radical concept bordering on heresy. Fancy considering the benefit of using fossil fuels and carbon dioxide when considering how we should meet society’s needs!

Editor
December 15, 2018 11:47 am

Great post Willis.

The benefits of carbon, liberated from fossil fuels, are never factored into the cost-benefits ratio of proposed decarbonization schemes. On top of that, they refuse to apply a real world discount rate, which zeroes out the social cost of carbon, without even considering the benefits.

Tasfay Martinov
December 15, 2018 11:59 am

Figure 2: subsidy per barrel of oil equivalent, nuclear 2.58, renewables 28.42

Imagine where nuclear would be if even half of the subsidy given to renewables had gone to nuclear. The nuclear “opportunity cost” if you like. Fourth generation plants already under construction, many GWatts of safe and carbon-free energy in the pipeline. But no – we chose to bludgeon and burn birds 🦅 to death instead by massive build of solar and wind.

If one is serious about “decarbonisation” then there are only two options, no others. Nuclear ☢️ or genocide 💀. Therefore it is in the vital interest of every person and especially their descendants to observe the attitudes of the ruling class to nuclear. Their lives / our lives depend on it.

Reply to  Tasfay Martinov
December 15, 2018 12:01 pm

Bingo.

Michael Keal
Reply to  Tasfay Martinov
December 16, 2018 9:42 am

1. “Imagine where nuclear would be if even half of the subsidy given to renewables had gone to nuclear.”

2. “… many GWatts of safe and carbon-free energy in the pipeline.”

1. Subsidise Nuclear? If nuclear is cheaper than coal for electricity generation then it could be used, but without subsidy. However, high pressure water reactors do have the potential to be extremely unsafe when things go wrong. (Fukushima)

2. What are the benefits of carbon-free energy?

WR2
December 15, 2018 12:15 pm

I don’t think you are really calculating a social benefit of carbon dioxide, you are just calculating a social benefit of energy. The GDP/CO2 historical relationship only exists because the vast majority of energy has been produced via fossil fuels, but that doesn’t mean that this is a benefit of emitting carbon. The economy would have been indifferent to whether the energy was produced with or without CO2 at a given price. You can’t give CO2 credit for all economic growth. It’s affordable energy that drives economic growth.

I think a better way to calculate social benefit of CO2 is to first determine how sensitive GDP is to energy prices, not CO2. The gap between expected GDP in a fossil fuel heavy (and thus a low cost energy environment) vs an all renewable (and high cost energy environment) can then be attributed to the social benefit of CO2. In your analysis, you are basically assuming that GDP is zero in a zero CO2 environment, which obviously would not be the case (though of course GDP would be drastically lower).

Reply to  WR2
December 15, 2018 3:16 pm

That was my thinking, too.

But I agree with Mr. Eschenbach on the CO2-fertilization part.

And on the other side of the ledger, the cost of temperature change is almost certainly overstated–and may even have the wrong sign. See Oren Cass at https://www.manhattan-institute.org/download/10986/article.pdf:

“Much of the estimate stems
from temperature increases in northern cities such as
Pittsburgh, Detroit, and New York, with forecasted
heat-related mortality rates of 12.8, 9.2, and 8.9 per
100,000. Yet southern cities such as Phoenix, Houston,
and New Orleans, which were already hotter in 2000
than northern cities are predicted to be in 2100, had
mortality rates in 2000 of only 0.2 per 100,000 (see
Figure 2).”

Hivemind
Reply to  WR2
December 15, 2018 9:39 pm

You are correct that Willis is calculating the social benefit of energy. He is measuring it in terms of CO2 emitted to produce that energy. Since almost all energy is derived from fossil fuels, it is valid to describe it as the social benefit of CO2 emissions.

WR2
Reply to  Hivemind
December 16, 2018 2:19 pm

No it is not valid. It is only valid to attribute GDP gains from the price difference between CO2 and non-CO2 sources. Would an all nuclear/solar/wind economy have zero GDP?

EdB
Reply to  WR2
December 16, 2018 2:27 am

I agree. If we build more nuclear, and then carbon fuel’s use goes to zero, we get an infinite social benefit of carbon? I don’t think so.

Otherwise and excellent essay.

David Hood
December 15, 2018 12:18 pm

So Willis,
what I have taken from this is that the dollar amounts tauted by the CAGW proponents, which often show the comparison of the subsidies as almost on par with each other – is for the different energy sector itself.
YOU are showing it as an equivalent amount per amount of energy produced – is that correct?

THAT makes for more sense to me now, for my head would do a bit of a spin when confronted with the almost on par comparisons – it just didn’t seem ‘correct’ and now if I have this right, WHY it didn’t seem correct.

Tez
December 15, 2018 12:52 pm

The first graph shows primary energy consumption. But can we rely on those figures given that the graph is produced by BP who have a vested interest.?

David Hood
Reply to  Tez
December 15, 2018 1:05 pm

Can we rely on any graph, produced by the IPCC – who have a vested interest?
Just asking.

December 15, 2018 1:20 pm

Pine seedling growth under elevated CO2 (eCO2) in O.P. Fig. 7 is misleading because mature plant growth under naturally occuring variables is not continuously so linear behaving. The pictured differences are more instructive for indicating that eCO2 impacts plant hormones’ (phyto-hormone) expression &, by the way, these phyto-hormones are not constantly linear performers.

Reply to  gringojay
December 15, 2018 2:03 pm

For example here is an expanded quote compilation: “… eCO2 can ameliorate … exacerbate…or … {have} neutral effect … {a} reduction of stomatal conductance {by eCO2} … not universal … {also} juvenile trees should be extrapolated with caution to mature … {since} inter-genotype variability … {can} change over ontogeny {what develops} … {finding} eCO2 can aggravate the effects of water deficit … {&} can constrain range of drought tolerance of species ….” As per comparative current ppm CO2 to 800 ppm CO2 tests reported in (2017) “Inter-gentypic differences in drought tolerance of maritime pine are modified by elevated CO2”; free full text available on-line, DOI = 10.1093/aob/mcz080

This is not an attempt to refute O.P.’s basic premise. It is orientation concerning correlation pictures like Fig. 7 can instill.

Reply to  gringojay
December 15, 2018 2:08 pm

Edit: study’s title should begin “Inter-genotypic” & cited DOI should end “mcx/080”

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