
Guest essay by Eric Worrall
According to theoretical physicist Sabine Hossenfelder, impaired methodology and groupthink is retarding the discovery of new physics.
The present phase of stagnation in the foundations of physics is not normal
Nothing is moving in the foundations of physics. One experiment after the other is returning null results: No new particles, no new dimensions, no new symmetries. Sure, there are some anomalies in the data here and there, and maybe one of them will turn out to be real news. But experimentalists are just poking in the dark. They have no clue where new physics may be to find. And their colleagues in theory development are of no help.
Some have called it a crisis. But I don’t think “crisis” describes the current situation well: Crisis is so optimistic. It raises the impression that theorists realized the error of their ways, that change is on the way, that they are waking up now and will abandon their flawed methodology. But I see no awakening. The self-reflection in the community is zero, zilch, nada, nichts, null. They just keep doing what they’ve been doing for 40 years, blathering about naturalness and multiversesand shifting their “predictions,” once again, to the next larger particle collider.
…
I don’t take this advice out of nowhere. If you look at the history of physics, it was working on the hard mathematical problems that led to breakthroughs. If you look at the sociology of science, bad incentives create substantial inefficiencies. If you look at the psychology of science, no one likes change.
Developing new methodologies is harder than inventing new particles in the dozens, which is why they don’t like to hear my conclusions. Any change will reduce the paper output, and they don’t want this. It’s not institutional pressure that creates this resistance, it’s that scientists themselves don’t want to move their butts.
How long can they go on with this, you ask? How long can they keep on spinning theory-tales?
I am afraid there is nothing that can stop them. They review each other’s papers. They review each other’s grant proposals. And they constantly tell each other that what they are doing is good science. Why should they stop? For them, all is going well. They hold conferences, they publish papers, they discuss their great new ideas. From the inside, it looks like business as usual, just that nothing comes out of it.
This is not a problem that will go away by itself.
Read more: http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2018/11/the-present-phase-of-stagnation-in.html
The author, Sabine Hossenfelder, is a researcher fellow at the Frankfurt Institute for Advanced Studies and author of the book “Lost in Math: How Beauty Leads Physics Astray.”
This isn’t the first time WUWT have seen this claim, renowned Theoretical Physicist Lee Smolin made similar claims in his book “The Trouble With Physics”.
The suggestion of a tremendous, pointless waste of effort, producing academic papers and good careers but very little advance, seems somehow familiar.
As Willis pointed out in his post The Picasso Problem, for decades there has been no real advance in climate science. Fundamental problems, answers to basic questions such as “how much does the world warm if you add CO2” are no closer to resolution today than they were in the 1980s.

Why is climate science stagnating? One thing we have seen over the years, in Climate Science nobody ever loses. As long as your estimated climate sensitivity is above 1.5C and not too much higher than 4.5C, your estimate will be accepted by the community as reasonable. If your sensitivity estimate is less than 1.5C, you’re a denier. If you make a truly ridiculous claim, such as predicting an ice free Arctic in the next couple of years, you might attract a pithy comment from Gavin Schmidt. But overall everyone’s career is safe, providing you churn out lots of papers which conform to the community view of what your results should be. There is no sense of urgency, no sense of concern, that the field of climate science is not advancing.
Similarly in Physics, according to Lee Smolin and now to Sabine Hossenfelder, your career is fine as long as your research proposal falls within the parameters of what everyone else thinks it should be.
If you want to ask uncomfortable questions like “Since the observable Universe is relativistic, why is most string theory based on the assumption that space and time are immutable?“, you may have trouble getting your grant proposal approved, because your grant proposal will be reviewed by scientists who built their careers writing papers based on flawed assumptions which you want to question.
The point is the malaise we have seen in the mainstream climate community is not limited to climate science, it is far more widespread. From rampant scientific fraud in the medical community, to stagnation in the climate science and physics communities, career scientists appear to be prioritising safety and job security ahead of progress. And nobody seems to have a solution for how to fix this problem.
Ask Luboš Motl (the Reference Frame ) what he thinks of her, and friends, and their ideas.
Lumo, where are you?
For Physics the answer is probably found in the necessitous of Dark Matter. I am not a “believer” in Dark Matter. Nor do I ever expect it will be “discovered”. But I am a believer that why it is needed is providing us a clue there there this is something as fantastic and revolutionary to be discovered as were Relativity and Quantum Mechanics where to 20th Century Physics.
But as has been pointed out, the current incremental investigations may be insufficient. What happens to Physics when the energies required are beyond what is experimentally achievable? Or where there is no guidance in theory because there are no precedents? Or even sparse variations? It’s going to take some extremely weird “reasoning”. And it certainly will be astoundingly rebutted (at first) and it *will* require the persistence of amateurs, (as it did for the Natural Philosophers who came before Scientists) for it will certainly be along the rocky & narrow ridge of career suicide.
Not being a physicist I don’t have an opinion. Right or wrong, Luboš Motl has one: https://motls.blogspot.com/2018/11/the-number-of-anti-physics-articles-is.html?m=1
I don’t know where Luboš Motl gets his money, but many of his fellow travellers rely on money provided by ordinary people like ourselves to continue their research.
So if we have a few questions from time to time about what they are doing with our money, he can stick his arrogance up his proverbial if he wants the flow of cash to continue.
Wow. A couple things jump out at me in that article by Motl.
1: He uses a LOT of really childish insults to describe anyone he disagrees with.
2: He constantly refers to Peter Woit as Peter W*it. I have no idea what that’s about, but it looks like more childish tantruming.
3: He seems to have taken a throw away comment (that was probably ment as a joke) about ‘pulling the plug’ on potential future AI physicists if they won’t at least try to explain future science advances to us lowly humans so seriously that he needed to launch into a defense of the ‘Rights’ of future ‘silicon citizens’.
Seriously, I know nothing of these people or their arguments, and know little about their science. But Motl comes across as a petulant man-child. It’s like watching ‘The Big Bang Theory’ on TV.
~¿~
I agree. It’s like he’ is actually Michael Mann’s night job. Lol!
Eric Worrall: “I don’t know where Luboš Motl gets his money, but many of his fellow travellers rely on money provided by ordinary people like ourselves to continue their research.”
I doubt any money from “ordinary people like ourselves” makes its way to the Czech Republic (Czechia).
Schitzree: “He constantly refers to Peter Woit as Peter W*it.”
Because it’s a swear word to him.
Schitzree: “It’s like watching ‘The Big Bang Theory’ on TV.”
Yes, maybe BBT is modelled after him. He is very definitely a fan of it. He writes about this a lot.
He has research and he has opinions. His research is beyond most people’s ability to judge. You may not like his opinions, but it is very useful to hear what a true skeptic thinks. You won’t hear his views on the MSM. They might seem like rants, but they are very well thought out.
I’m sure the Czechs will be surprised to hear they don’t pay taxes.
^¿^
“And nobody seems to have a solution for how to fix this problem.”
Stop giving taxpayer money to the science community. That will cull the rubbish.
Bingo. You beat me to the punch. At this point it’s like bears at the town dump. They are going to be almost impossible to get rid of.
If you propose doing that, they will run around screeching: Atomic Bomb, Transistor, Lasers …
Tell them that was 2 generations ago and ask them what have you done for me lately, they will yammer incomprehensible baffle-gab about the need for fundamental research.
What we have here is white people on welfare. Politicians don’t have the heart to put them on the street.
Walter, there is no reason to bring race into this discussion.
Dark Matter is just a case of “We do not know what it is , so we will call it something, keep the grants coming”.
MJE
How could they possibly have stagnating groupthink? It is forbidden by policy. Just about every university spends millions on diversity and inclusion, including hiring highly paid people to head up such efforts. The even have forced (er, mandatory) scoldings and indoctrination lectures on this essential subject. So,almost by law all of these teams are so diverse that groupthink is by definition impossible.
As proof of their diversity and inclusivity, just look at what percent of university faculty donated to the (D) party in the last election cycle.
I still refer to Feynman’s “Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts” — i.e we are fooling ourselves if we think we understand everything (anything? current theories?). And it will prob always be this way!!
I look to Randell Mill’s work. He now in in touching distance of a working prototype. It seems like convention physics is just ignoring him.
Like climatism, I suspect it’s due to an ossification caused by a few famous, and very comfortable, people at the top dominating both allowable opinions and direction of resources. Too ‘institutionalized’. Probably the same in fusion research too. Not enough time and resources given to people with genuinely new ideas, while the established elite gather ever more money and prestige to themselves, even as their discipline is being hollowed-out and rotting from within.
All three that I have mentioned are characterized by a very long “turnover time”. I’m not referring to the people, but to the theories, models, and ideas. Thus it may take many decades for a bad idea to run it’s course. In chemistry or molecular biology, competitors in the field can do an experiment to prove you wrong in less than a week, not fifty years. This tends to help keep concentration here and now where it belongs.
Perhaps they should spend more time (and money) on something more immediately useful, not the grand problems of the universe or future climates. Sometimes the solution to a big problem arrives unexpectedly while you are doing something apparently much more trivial.
Lee Smolin is a fascinating character. I heard him interviewed by James Delingpole, and then read his book “The Singular Universe and the Reality of Time”. He suggests that physical laws themselves are emergent and can vary over time. This is the opposite to the more common view that the laws are fixed and time itself is emergent.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237432405_Verification_of_time-reversibility_requirementfor_systems_satisfying_the_Evans-Searles_fluctuation_theorem
THE MAJOR REASON WHY ALL CLIMATE COMPUTER MODELS ARE BOGUS
When the climate computer models got sophisticated enough in the 90’s they found that the simulations were becoming unstable when run far enough in the future. So the climate modellers turned to mathematics to correct this. What they did was use the Evans Searles fluctuation theorem to damp down the stochastic process of the chaotic atmospheric system. This is a further refinement of the Fluctuation Dissipation Therorem which states that
“The fluctuation–dissipation theorem says that when there is a process that dissipates energy, turning it into heat (e.g., friction), there is a reverse process related to thermal fluctuations. ”
HOWEVER using the Evans Searles fluctuation theorem requires reversiblity of the process. In the above link I quote :
“In the present paper, we confirm that the time-
reversibility of the system dynamics is a necessary condition for the ESFT to hold. The man-
ner in which the ESFT fails for systems that are not time-reversible is presented, and results
are shown which demonstrate that systems which fail to satisfy the ESFT may still satisfy the
Crooks relation (CR).”
The earth atmosphere is not a reversible system.
HOWEVER USING THE CROOKS relation doesnt save the climate scientists either BECAUSE
I quote :
“For systems in which the relaxed initial and final states
have the same free energy, the Crooks relation (CR) states ”
SINCE THE EARTH’S ATMOSPHERE NEVER HAS THE SAME ENERGY AT ANY TIME , the Crooks relation cannot be used.
All these mathematical constructs were developed for enclosed energy systems where you can control everything. The attempt by climate scientists to use them in their computer code to model chaotic non linear systems where even all the degrees of freedom are not specified fully (Do you really believe that all the variables have been included in climate models?) is an assault against science itself.
Are we seeing a generational/educational effect?
Can we analyse by analogy?
When will just one contemporary composer match Beethoven ?
One modern artist match Rembrandt?
Has society invented ways to suppress genius or even higher skill people?
Have we turned gravels with the occasional diamond into uniform grey porridge?
Geoff
This article made me think of paper by Garrett Lisi a while back that took a fresh approach to a Theory Of Everything. It had its flaws but it was a very different way of looking for a TOE.
Sabine and a few others were supportive but there was plenty of animosity from physicists including Motl. I never really understood why, but this article helps.
I followed the story on the Not Even Wrong blog for a while.
http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=617
Garrett is talking about infinite-dimensional E8 group and infinite spacetime cosmology. There are technical problems with these. I told him about it and I’m not satisfied with his answers. IDK if he can make a more sensible theory
After Lee Smolin; Time is real, endures eternally, while space is emergent and contingent. Time does not ‘tick’, time is duration. Roberto Mangabera Unger did Lee Smolin and us no favors.
Our Father, Creator, God, who art in Heaven, our universe, with us;
Hallowed Holy be thy Name. Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done,
On Earth as it is in Heaven. [The Pleas follow]. For Thine is the Kingdom
and the Power and the Glory Forever and Ever.
Our Univere does not admit the Supernatural, but some previous one did. He evolved to persist apart from evanescent space.
My only remaining question is; does the ego survive discorporation. Will ‘I’ sit at God’s Right Hand?
“My only remaining question is; does the ego survive discorporation. Will ‘I’ sit at God’s Right Hand?”
https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/research-area/children-who-report-memories-of-previous-lives/
Children Who Report Memories of Previous Lives
“Some young children, usually between the ages of 2 and 5, speak about memories of a previous life they claim to have lived. At the same time they often show behaviors, such as phobias or preferences, that are unusual within the context of their particular family and cannot be explained by any current life events. These memories appear to be concordant with the child’s statements about a previous life.
In many cases of this type, the child’s statements have been shown to correspond accurately to facts in the life and death of a deceased person. Some of the children have birthmarks and birth defects that correspond to wounds or other marks on the deceased person whose life is being remembered by the child. In numerous cases postmortem reports have confirmed these correspondences. Older children may retain these apparent memories, but generally they seem to fade around the age of 7 . The young subjects of these cases have been found all over the world including Europe and North America.”
end excerpt
I don’t know if the ego survives. We have to die to find out, it seems. I’ve looked for ways to find this out without dying, but so far have been unsuccessful.
If the ego does survive, you may come back for another shot of life rather than sitting at God’s Right Hand. Supposedly, you keep coming back to rid yourself of illusions and when that has been acomplished you transcend birth and death, and perhaps then you can sit at the Right Hand of God.
I saw a television program some time ago ( a year of two) about a young boy, who from a very early age, told his parents about a past life as a man who had served in the U.S. Navy during World War II in the Pacific theater and was killed in action. This kid knew names of fellow servicemenbers and naval ships. He knew things he couldn’t possibly have known. He described the name of a US Navy vessel that upon cursory search could not be found in the hstoric record, but a subsequent, more detailed search found that the kid was exactly right, there was a ship by that name and it was involved in the naval battle the kid described.
The kid has even connected with the family of the man who died in the battle and they also believe he is the reincarnation of their relative.
It’s an amazing story.
If we can’t explain this, then we don’t know everything that’s going on in the universe.
According to the tv show, the university has about 1,500 similar cases on file of children recounting past life experiences.
Btw, I’m not promoting reincarnation. My position is: I don’t know. And I’ll probably have to die to find out any real answers. But I try to practice the Golden Rule so maybe that will be sufficient for either way it goes, death of the ego, or continuation of the ego.
Linked by commenters at Sabine’s Blog:
“Science Is Getting Less Bang for Its Buck: Despite vast increases in the time and money spent on research, progress is barely keeping pace with the past. What went wrong?” by Patrick Collison & Michael Nielsen on Nov 16, 2018
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/11/diminishing-returns-science/575665/
The whole matter of Global warming come climate come disruptive weather come …..
It can be easily fixed.
First prove that the molucle CO2, with two parts of Oxygen and only one part
of Carbon, does not store heat, but re-radiates it in the real world, not the PC or a in a enclosed jar in a classroom.
Two. In the Oceans, all 73 % cent of them, plus all the water on land. They are the flywheels of the system. Via the wind they spread the heat energy around the globe. The bumps, ie Mountains, call local variations.
And Three, “Time” That factor which is so important, but disliked by so many as just too far away.
MJE
“When you have a hammer everything starts looking like a nail”
One of the problems with physics today is that they are addicted to smashing things with bigger and bigger hammers. They can’t even see what they’re looking for. There only able to infer it’s existence by looking for decay particles. Sort of like smashing a clock and then looking at the resultant shards and inferring what the clock must look like. They may have gone beyond the point of diminishing returns by this approach.
I’ve been thinking about asking this question among those here for some time. Looks like this is a good time!
My 75 year young mother has an interest to learn about physics, so could anyone recommend a good introductory book for a layman with no previous experience?
Many thanks!
I have always recommended two sources:
1. The Feynman Cornell Messenger Lecture Series from 1964. In my opinion, nobody explains physics as simply and as hubris free as Feynman. The lectures are available online at
http://www.cornell.edu/video/playlist/richard-feynman-messenger-lectures
A famous and favorite bite is in Lecture 7 at about the 16:30 minute mark, in which he explains how physics is done in language that has never been bettered, in my opinion.
2. Another possible source is available on youtube (possibly also from PBS) and is called Crash Course Physics. They can be watched one at a time. They are generally about 10 minutes long. They are actually geared toward students taking physics, but the illustrations are first rate. Dr. Shini Somara is an excellent narrator. They don’t shirk from giving equations, but in context, they make sense, and of course the students need them. These can be found at
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtN0ge7yDk_UA0ldZJdhwkoV
Finally, a very good introduction to “understanding” physics is Feynman’s introductory section in his little book QED, which I will quote at length here:
From Richard P. Feynman, QED: The Strange Theory of Light and Matter
(Note QED here means Quantum ElectroDynamics, not Quod Erat Demonstrandum. The little book is a more or less accurate reflection of a series of lectures he gave at UCLA. As a boy he was inspired to study calculus from a book that began, “What one fool can do, another can.” He dedicated this book to his readers with similar words, “What one fool can understand, another can.”)
“Most of the phenomena you are familiar with involve the interaction of light and electrons–all of chemistry and biology, for example. The only phenomena that are not covered by this theory are phenomena of gravitation and nuclear phenomena; everything else is contained in this theory.
What I am going to tell you about is what we teach our physics students in the third or fourth year of graduate school—and you think I’m going to explain it to you so you can understand it? No, you’re not going to be able to understand it. Why, then, am I going to bother you with all this? Why are you going to sit here all this time, when you won’t be able to understand what I am going to say? It is my task to convince you not to turn away because you don’t understand it. You see, my physics students don’t understand it either. That is because I don’t understand it. Nobody does.
I’d like to talk a little bit about understanding. When we have a lecture, there are many reasons why you might not understand the speaker. One is, his language is bad – he doesn’t say what he means to say, or he says it upside down – and it is hard to understand. That is a rather trivial matter, and I’ll try my best to avoid too much of my New York accent.
Another possibility, especially if the lecturer is a physicist, is that he uses ordinary words such as “work” or “action” or “energy” or even, as you shall see, “light” for some technical purpose. Thus when I talk about “work” in physics, I don’t mean the same thing when I talk about “work” on the street. During this lecture I might use one of those words without noticing that it is being used in this unusual way. I’ll try my best to catch myself—that’s my job—but it is an error that is easy to make.
The next reason that you might think you do not understand what I am telling you is, while I am describing to you how Nature works, you won’t understand why Nature works that way. But you see, nobody understands that. I can’t explain why Nature behaves in this peculiar way.
Finally, there is this possibility: after I tell you something you just can’t believe it. You can’t accept it. A little screen comes down and you don’t listen anymore. I’m going to describe to you how Nature is—and if you don’t like it, that’s going to get in the way of your understanding it. It’s a problem that physicists have learned to deal with: They’ve learned to realize that whether they like a theory or they don’t like a theory is not the essential question. Rather, it is whether or not the theory gives predictions that agree with experiment. It is not a question of whether a theory is philosophically delightful, or easy to understand, or perfectly reasonable from the point of view of common sense. The theory of quantum electrodynamics describes Nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And it agrees fully with experiment. So I hope you can accept Nature as She is—absurd.”
A final note, perhaps to be discussed later, is that it may be inconsistent to hold climate science (or cosmology, or evolution, or a number of other wonderful disciplines) to the same theory-experiment paradigm as physics (and likely the other basic sciences chemistry and biology). Perhaps more on that later.
Thanks so much!
If Feynman was alive today he would overturn this CO2 scam in a day. With his stature he would have been able to standup to the scam artists. He was a generalist that seemed to know about everything. It was easier in those days to know everything. Now a scientist knows more and more about less and less until he is useless outside his narrowly defined field.
Feynman did make one contribution to the debunking. He demonstrated mathematically that you don’t need CO2 or other “greenhouse” gases to have a warm planetary surface. All you need is the pressure differential generated by a planet’s gravity (it shifts the effective black body surface upward). Atmospheric mass and density determine the surface temperature, not greenhouse gases.
Can you point me to where Feynman talked about this?
“Perhaps more on that later.”
fah,
Sooner please.
Given that “it’s basic physics” (or words to that effect) are the standard repost to any query or challenge, go for it and don’t hold back.
PM: Sorry for the delay. While once-retired, I am still over committed.
Unfortunately, conversations about climate science have a pall over them of connection to various political action advocacy positions. This seems to lead to a good bit of impugning of motives and focusing more on winning of some kind of contest than of improving understanding. It is too bad, but it is what it is for now. Two notions often arise that really should not be unclear. Call the two main “camps” in the conversation Side A, and Side B. Side A is sometimes called the camp of skeptics, deniers, non-alarmists, or whatever, and Side B can contain people sometimes called alarmists, mainstream consensus, or whatever.
Side A often claims that anthropogenic CO2 dominated global warming (let’s call this ACDGW) is not “valid” because it has not been demonstrated in a controlled experiment, and that therefore, ACDGW is not scientifically justified (at least not yet). Side B often claims that the “science” of ACDGW is just “basic physics” and that therefore it is as established as basic physics and anyone who disputes that statement is, well, a scientific simpleton.
It is helpful to be clear when discussing either A or B’s claims about what “science” is or is not. The word “science” sometimes means different things to different people. Focusing on just the physical and life sciences (and mostly physics) it is helpful to distinguish between two general classes of “science.” One could be called basic science and would include physics, chemistry, and biology. Another could be called complex or interdisciplinary science. (But don’t get riled up yet, wait for some explanation, neither is “better” or “worse” than the other).
The central characteristic of basic sciences in this view is that they proceed by (of course constantly making observations) but fundamentally 1) propose a theory of how something works (not why, just how) 2) formulate the theory in non-arbitrary mathematical terms that can predict the outcomes of controlled experiments isolating the “something” and 3) perform controlled experiments and compare the non-arbitrary, previously well defined, predictions of the theory with the experimental outcome. If the prediction and the outcome are close enough, then the theory is, for now, assumed to not be wrong. Other theories, that predict outcomes that can be ruled out by the error bounds of repeated experiments, preferably using multiple phenomena and methods, are assumed to be wrong.
The central difference between basic sciences and complex sciences is that (usually) in a complex science the definition of the problem rules out performing controlled experiments. Astrophysics and cosmology are good examples of this kind of science. Climate science is another. The approach of these sciences is to observe the system (or systems) under study, compare the phenomena that appear to be involved with phenomena from the basic sciences for which there is experimental evidence, and construct a theory that mathematically explains observed behavior and predicts future behavior in terms of results of experiments that can be performed, albeit not on the complete system. A key distinction is that what the theory does is explain current and past observations and predict future observations, but the observations are necessarily not controlled experiments. By definition of the system under study, a controlled experiment is not possible. Nevertheless, a theory is judged better or worse than another theory if it agrees the most with observations, both present/past and future. Because a single or a few definitive controlled experiments are not available to rule out incorrect theories, it can take longer to find a definitive complex theory. For example, in cosmology, working theories have gone from steady-state, to open big bang, to open inflationary big bang, to closed big bang with dark matter, etc. etc. Various alternatives, such as cosmologies in which the “constants” of the universe are functions of the universe itself and change as the universe evolves in time, have taken quite some time to rule out observationally (almost but not quite). In astrophysics, the original notion that a black hole was simply a mathematical oddity, a solution of Einstein’s equations, for an isolated mass in an empty universe, and that it did not represent anything that would occur in reality. That view evolved over the past 60 years or so such that black hole existence currently agrees more with observations than other explanations for a variety of astronomical systems. Another good example is the theory of stellar evolution. Based on the initial mass of a star at formation (assuming a pristine formation) the theory predicts how the star will evolve in time, what its luminosity and spectral output will be, whether and how long it will be a so-called main sequence star, how and when it will depart from the main sequence and become a giant or dwarf, or whether it will follow another path perhaps to an explosive event and collapse to a neutron star or black hole. All of these predictions are based on observations of many stellar objects and computer models that incorporate as much as we know about underlying physics (even basic physics) from experiments performed in labs or other facilities. None of the predictions are experimentally confirmed by a controlled experiment on a forming and evolving star.
In this view, climate science is much more a complex science than a basic science. As such, the insistence that climate science “prove” its theory by experimental demonstration misunderstands this difference within the practice of “science”. From this perspective the insistence (usually by Side A) on experimental proof should not be constantly raised since it is essentially a straw man. Climate science need no more test its theories with experiments (to be considered “valid” in some sense) than should cosmology. It is unlikely (we hope) that we will have the opportunity to interact with a black hole, but the theories describing them are nevertheless constantly tested against observations, as in the recent observations of gravitational waves from what was most likely a collision of black holes.
You point out that Side B often claims that climate science, in particular ACDGW, is just “basic physics,” and hence anyone who disputes its tenets is a scientific simpleton, akin to disputing the validity of Newtonian mechanics and gravity in regimes in which it applies, or relativistic theories when needed. This claim is wrong on several accounts, but mostly it has to do with what the meaning of “is” is (to quote a famous former president). The apparent intended use of “is” in “is basic physics” means to state that ACDGW = basic physics and therefore any quality of validity of basic physics is also held by ACDGW. This equality is false on a number of levels.
First, trivially, if ACDGW = basic physics, then ACDGW would be taught within physics departments as a required course alongside mechanics, stat mech, QM, EM, maybe fluid mech, solid state physics, plasma physics, particle physics, and relativity for undergraduates with more advanced courses in all of these plus perhaps other specialized courses in field theory, math methods, etc. To my knowledge, ACGW or even the broader climate science, is not taught within physics departments but instead finds its home in other departments named things like meteorology and atmospheric science, or earth science, or something else typically with “science” appended and perhaps including oceanic or environmental in the title. On this count, climate science is not basic physics in the way the subjects mentioned above are basic physics and the equality lacks merit.
Second, the equality does not hold since basic physics is a basic science as described above and depends on comparison with controlled experiments for testing its theories. ACDGW can not and does not do so (which is no shame, it is just its nature) and therefore is not equal to basic physics. Period.
Third, ACDGW is not equal to basic physics because some of its fundamental concepts and quantities are peculiar to ACDGW and are not within physics at all. Things like “forcings” and “feedbacks” are much more at home in computer science or perhaps applied numerical techniques and engineering science than in basic physics. To my knowledge forcings and feedbacks are not part of the standard basic physics curriculum. One of the key quantities of interest seems to be the global spatial (and somewhat time) average of local temperature readings. It is often called an average global temperature, or various distinct subsets of it, but in the view of basic physics, the quantity is (as most of Side A is aware) not a temperature at all. In basic physics a global temperature would be (an intensive property of the global system) the differential of the global energy with respect to the global entropy (two extensive properties of the global system). But the global system is a big thing. Even just the global surface is a big thing, extending over land and ocean surfaces with widely varying properties, coupled to immense non-equilibrium thermodynamic systems such as oceans, and geology and atmospheres, including many mechanical sinks and sources and phase changes and on and on. To get a global temperature using basic physics one would need to specify the global energy and entropy and then find the differential of that somehow. It’s not too hard to show, under a variety of simplifying assumptions, that the average of the temperatures of a collection of systems is poorly (often chaotically) related to the temperature obtained from the summed system properties (energy and entropy). But it is even worse, since the sub systems, and likely the whole system, are not in equilibrium and the notion and definition of temperature as described above assumes equilibrium. All of this should not be viewed as a criticism of ACDGW for being wrong or bad for spending so much time with an average of global temperatures. It may be the right kind of thing to follow. But it definitely is not basic physics.
The more correct statement side B could make is that ACDGW “uses” basic physics. But that does not translate the property of validity that goes along with equality to basic physics. Validity needs to be found another way, whatever is best for a complex science. Lots of theories “use” basic physics but are not determined to be valid. All of the various cosmological theories have “used” basic physics, but as some of them made predictions that became harder and harder to contort to fit observations, they were thought to be less and less valid. (At least until they are resurrected by new observations or clever modifications.) Astrology “uses” basic physics to get the positions of the planets and stars and whatever else is part of it, but its predictions are either wrong or so vague as to be impossible to non-arbitrarily confirm the theory.
Summarizing:
1. The fact that ACDGW is not confirmed by controlled experiment does not mean that it is an invalid theory, any more than the current theory of stellar evolution is invalid on that basis. Its validity needs to be judged by the standards of the kind of science it is.
2. ACDGW uses basic physics but it does not equal basic physics. The validity of basic physics says nothing about the validity of ACDGW, which must be judged by the standards of the kind of science it is.
Finally, the issue of validity of a theory comes up. In a basic science, one could view validity as the property that the theories are not shown to be wrong by any of many experiments so far performed. In a complex science, I am not expert, but my guess is that validity would be a result of how many observations show the theory not to be wrong, including future observations. The only difficulty apparent to me is that in the absence of control over the experiment (or observation), it can be difficult to rule out alternative explanations of observations. This process should not be viewed as a flaw in the science, but simply essential to its nature.
fah
Thank you.
If it were possible to pass though an atom.
The answer would still be 42.
It is. Atoms are mostly empty space. This is why neutrons can go through most shielding. Charged particles get deflected by the electrostatic field inside or near an atom. Neutrons (and neutrinos) don’t.
There is a colossal hindrance in cosmology and physics. We have to struggle to do our own projects and wonder how wrong many others are. The fact we do not know the origin of particles, forces, symmetry, gravity, consciousness, the origin of the universe and the theory of everything is mainly due to the fragmentation of physics: I happen to know that the fragments are: dark matter, dark energy, gravity, mass, String theory, theory of everything, origin of universe, the Standard Model, name it there are so many. In fact I happen to know how and why because the universe is like a living organism. All the different parts work as an integrated whole. Within the Theory of Everything you will see how all the forces and groups of the main particles make absolute sense and so you can more easily see what is the concept of the origin of the universe and the how and why of practically everything. The Higgs can be seen to be a logical creation and there is no second Higgs . However mathematically the universe is far more complicated and what the String theories are dealing with is elementary compared to the realities of spacetime, forces and particles. Dark matter has no particular nature. Dark energy does not exist. We go back 100 percent the standard model organization.
useless nonsensical blather …
I probably should give you sort of grad student rating of all those in the science blogosphere
Top tier:
Lubos Motl: (https://motls.blogspot.com/) almost savant in his ability with mathematics. His caustic wit and extreme politics however makes him hard going for many. Regardless his science skill is extremely well regarded and most undergrads and grads read it.
Tommaso Dorigo: (https://www.science20.com/quantum_diaries_survivor) Very mainstream active researcher and now teacher. Not as good with theory as Lubos but has the experimentation background that Lubos does not.
Adam Falkowski: (http://resonaances.blogspot.com/) In early days was pretty much required reading by everyone. Personal life issues has reduced his blog entries to often months apart but still required reading for most.
Above Average:
Matt Strassler (https://profmattstrassler.com/) For layman this is the site I would recommend it is pretty much mainstream and given you may be starting out where you need to go. He is a very active researcher and blogger but more than that good at dealing the silly questions. His science knowledge is formidable but his communication skills even higher.
Average:
Sean Carroll (https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/) He is a mathematician who has now ventured into QM and Cosmology and unfortunately his lack of background in some areas of science brings him down. He falls into holes and ideas that have long been shown to be false and finds it hard to dig himself out. Lubos considers him a crackpot because he plays around in areas of QM long since buried and known wrong. He is however a good communicator and makes you think just be careful accepting his answers many are easily falsifiable.
Below Average:
Ethan Seigel (https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang) Astrophysicist who if he stuck to that area would be really interesting. He often ventures out into broader physics topics and there gets torn to pieces. Many of his articles in the general physics topics are basically no better than a google search and often blatantly wrong. Read him for the astrophysics articles and take the more general stuff as probably wrong.
and then there’s
Far Below Average:
ATTP.
The human race is devolving.
The brain was the latest evolution and the will be first to lose functionality.
We now have reverse natural selection breeding an idiocracy.
Research will be produce more junk results in the future,
as scientists lose fundamental understanding of science.
Lysenkoism had its day in the USSR.
This climate fraud fever will pass too. We can only hope the host survives.
The Left embraced Eugenics at the turn of the 20th Century because those same feelings of humanity’s devolution due to inferior races breeding. Mendelian genetics and Darwin’s natural selection theories were all the rage in gilded parlor hall discussions at that time. Monochromatic pictures of people of color living in squalor from around the globe were their version of today’s Facebook and Instagram. It fueled vicious racism. The kind of racism that eventually led to the 3rd Reich’s ugly version of Lebensraum and gas chambers for not just Jews, but Gypsies, and the mentally handicapped taken from sanitariums.
Today’s Liberals are not that much different from yesteryear’s Eugenicists. Like those of yesterday, today’s Liberals want to control via raw political power who can procreate, who can attain wealth, who can have access to the “good life” of abundance.
And there is no ethical principle or moral value that will stand in their way. Only men and women of sound character and principle can stop them.
I am not, and no one else I know of, are advocating any action on the issue.
And there is no action that would have the slightest chance of working,
especially since 99.99% of people would not support it.
We just have to wait to see how it plays out.
I’ll note a good source on today’s “liberals” and the old eugenics below:
Peer review guarantees that an article is not only not written by one of them cranky cranks but is also, mirabile dictu, Kosher, Halal and Orthodox.
Extra-ordinary claims still requires extra-oridinary evidence.
So far, outside of climate science, I see no violation of this position.
Climate science is the only science realm today whereby extraordinary claims of global catastrophe rests of the weakest of (or even no) evidence. Climate science has thus descended to quackery of models without validation.
Today’s mainstream consensus Climate science is very much a diseased gangrenous limb on the Body Science. And like a gangrenous foot on the body, it will not vote for its own needed amputation. Only the body can do that amputation, which is needed at this point. Science must bring to effect the discipline needed to contain the rot and disease that is spreading from Climate pseudo-Science into the Body Science.
“Climate science is the only science realm today whereby extraordinary claims of global catastrophe rests of the weakest of (or even no) evidence. Climate science has thus descended to quackery of models without validation.”
Exactly right!
https://www.cfact.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/StateDepartmentNov95.pdf
Just as in the 40’s and 50’s when the US State department was infiltrated to the highest levels with Communists (which resulted in the US stopping support for Chiang Kai Shek and letting Mao take over China), it seems that the US State department has never really got rid of the Communists in its midst. The above is a document which the State Department denies exists but was written by them in the Clinton era. It is a letter from them to the IPCC working group 1 which is the science working group of the IPCC.
The letter is one long list of suggestions from the Deputy Assistant secretary Acting Environment and Development, a Mr. Mount who is certainly no scientist. The letter can be summarized in 1 quote below
“What is missing from the summary statement is just how sure we are that our best guess is the right one. ”
Don’t forget that this is 1995 and the climate models are not that sophisticated , compared to today. If the science is unclear today, it certainly was back then. This is an attempt by the State Department to undermine the USA by forging a link to CO2 and climate to lead to the mess we are in today.
What is important to note that once a Communist agent gets into a high position within a government department he can hire other Communist agents underneath him. They dont have to have any further contact with foreign governments from then on because they will wreak havoc by themselves with the objective of always undermining the capitalist position. They are extremely slick and often almost impossible to root out. The only solution to this is that every so often, each government department should be completely dissolved and replaced from scratch with loyal people that adhere to capitalism and freedom.
Notice that dictators like Stalin have followed that solution with the difference being that he executed anybody that had even a whiff of suspicion on them and quite a few , that weren’t even on the list of suspicion.
Up-Down-Strange-Charm-Top-Bottom.
They lost me right there.
Also, 99% of the research is about defining the magnitude of the problem (what’s going to happen if nothing is done – alarmism) instead of the more obvious research focus, how to solve the problem