Bjorn Lomborg writes:
Al Gore recently had a telling altercation with a journalist. The Spectator’s Ross Clark wanted to ask him about Miami sea-level rises suggested in the new film, “An Inconvenient Sequel.” The reporter started to explain that he had consulted Florida International University sea-level-rise expert Shimon Wdowinski. Gore’s response: “Never heard of him — is he a denier?” Then he asked the journalist, “Are you a denier?”
When Clark responded that he was sure climate change is a problem but didn’t know how big, Gore declared, “You are a denier.”
I was recently on the receiving end of a similar rebuff from Chile’s environment minister. I’d written an op-ed for a Chilean newspaper that, among other things, quoted UN findings on how little the Paris climate treaty would achieve and argued that vast investment in green energy research and development is a better policy. Marcelo Mena proclaimed, “There is no room for your climate-denying rhetoric in Chile.”
Something odd — and dangerous — is happening when even people who accept the reality of man-made climate change are labeled “deniers.” The unwillingness to discuss which policies work best means we end up with worse choices.
Consider the case of Roger Pielke, Jr, a political scientist who worked extensively on climate change. He believes that climate change is real, human emissions of greenhouse gases justify action and there should be a carbon tax.
But he drew the ire of climate campaigners because his research has shown that the increasing costs from hurricane damage is not caused by storms made more intense by climate-change but by more and pricier property built in vulnerable areas. He took issue with the UN’s influential International Panel for Climate Change over a chart in its 2007 report that seemed to imply causation when there was only circumstantial evidence.
Pielke was proven right, and the IPCC’s subsequent outputs mostly accepted his arguments. Yet, he was the target of a years-long campaign, including a massive but baseless takedown that later turned out to have been coordinated by a climate-campaigning think tank funded by a green billionaire, alongside an investigation launched by a congressman.
Pielke left climate change for other fields where “no one is trying to get me fired.” And sidelining him has made it easier for climate-campaigners to use hurricanes Harvey, Irma and Maria to argue for carbon-cut policies, even though these will do very little to prevent future hurricane damage.
Pielke finds that we should make relatively cheap investments to reduce vulnerability, like limiting floodplain construction and increasing porous surfaces. Ignoring this means more harm.
Leaving out dissention echoes the worst of the leaked “ClimateGate” e-mails. In 2004, the head of a leading climate-research organization wrote about two inconvenient papers: “Kevin and I will keep them out [of the IPCC report] somehow — even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!”
Journalists also ensure debate “purity.” In Scientific American, climate writer and former CNN producer Peter Dykstra stated baldly that “climate denial extends beyond rejecting climate science,” comparing policy questioners to Holocaust deniers and dismissing my own decade of advocacy for a green energy R&D fund as “minimization.”
This intolerance for discussion is alarming. Believe in climate change but wonder how bad it will be? You’re a “denier,” says Gore. Believe, but argue that today’s policies aren’t the best response? You’re a denier, says Chile’s environment minister. Believe, but point out problematic findings or media reporting? There’s no room for you, say the self-appointed gatekeepers of debate.
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Excerpted comments from article:
The actions of the aforesaid climate campaigners are pretty much identical to the actions of ”illegal drug” dealers and/or the actions of “prostitution” pimps ……. whenever the “source” of their livelihood is being questioned.
The growing anger they’re showing is a fantastic sign. It used to be condescension, then it was mockery and name calling, now its rage and fury. Next up is…
First they ignore you
Then they laugh at you
Then they fight you
Then you win.
The problem with this syllogism is that it implies that everyone who is ignored, will eventually win.
A lot of people who are ignored, stay ignored.
A lot of people get laughed at, then go back to being ignored.
A lot of time when they fight you, they win.
We’re brought up to believe that the good guys or truth will win out in the end, but I’ve never seen anything as insidious or pervasive as this AGW crap.Too many people who benefit from keeping it alive and moving. We have an 18 year hiatus and their method of dealing with it is to collectively ignore it! And they get away with it! Even on here we forget that it isn’t actually warming now!
john harmsworth
Isn’t the planet warming, just a bit, but not as much as predicted, and certainly not in line with rising CO2?
I think the point is, that the planet is warming, but not in line with predictions and not in line with the alleged fundamental cause, increasing CO2.
But the hiatus is not going unignored by the marginal warmists. Ordinary people are becoming increasingly sceptical of hysterical claims of global catastrophe, when previous claims never manifest themselves.
Politicians eventually must take note. That’s not a hope, that’s a prediction.
The chief problem with this syllogism
is that it is not a syllogism;
at least, not one that Aristotle would recognise as such…
Gandhi, Mandela, Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. and similar had success only when they were dealing with Protestant Christians. Try it with Communists or Muslims or historically NAZIs. Between Marxist-Leninist Socialists and National Socialists they murdered some 200 million people. Good luck with non-violent protests. In “The Black Book of Communism”, translated and published by the Harvard University Press, they relate advise that Felix Dzerzhinsky (founder of the Cheka/KGB) gave to his organizers. As I recall, he said something like “we want stout hearted men who know that nothing shuts someone up faster than a bullet in the head.” I suspect that Al Gore, Obama, and the United Nations are closer to Felix than Protestant Christians.
Gandhi and Mandela were political figureheads.
Gandhi was known for sleeping with his family and Mandela, like Martin McGuinness, never denounced terrorism, of which, they were both significant figures.
Whilst all represented unification, they were political puppets protected from their reprehensible past.
Any one of us would have been locked up for good had we conducted ourselves in the manner they did.
Ghandi believed a female couldn’t be raped, her virtue would protect her. If she got raped, it was due to her poor virtue. Which, in any manner, was do to his push of pacifism.
Pacifism, killing more people in history than fascism.
Inspired by another WUWT article, I ask, is Algor a modern day Kronos, devouring his children? Love it when the left eats its own.
Or a modern-day James Forrestall who will leap from the window of his psychiatric unit yelling “we’re all doomed”.
They deserve to be famous so schoolchildren can learn about them.
Colorado Wellington: I like that link, must find out how some time. Meanwhile I recommend this book which deals with the common (and accepted) practice of cannibalism after shipwrecks.
https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/off-the-deep-end-9781472941114/
Quite. As mentioned the other day schoolchildren will know of this sorry episode in mankind’s history as the time of..
FOSSIL FOOLS.
MikeSYR,
The analogy of the story of Kronos might be put to good use when debating the (rare) alarmist willing to debate, rather than engage in personal attacks.
That is, try to frame your debate in such a way that they either have to agree with you or have to eat their own children — i.e. D-Nye the dogma of their position. The internet does not lend itself to Socratic dialogue because of the time delay and the ability for one to go out to Wikipedia and come back and say, “I knew that all along!” However, in a one-on-one, or public panel discussion, a debater has to commit to a position when asked for a response. Although, even in that situation, I have found that many are smart enough to see that they are being led to the slaughter house, and will attempt to evade by changing the subject or resorting to ad hominem attacks.
Weinstein is to Hollywood as Gore is to “climate change”.
It’s all about controlling the message.
From Gardian
“For the moment, (Antarctica) sea ice is increasing and this is a problem …..”
claims Dr. Ropert-Coudert director of research at the CNRS (Centre national de la recherche scientifique)
so what is this about?
“A colony of about 40,000 Adélie penguins in Antarctica has suffered a “catastrophic breeding event” – all but two chicks have died of starvation this year. It is the second time in just four years that such devastation – not previously seen in more than 50 years of observation – has been wrought on the population.”
………..
“For the moment, sea ice is increasing and this is a problem for this species as it pushes the feeding place – the sea ice edge – farther away from their nesting place,” Ropert-Coudert said. “If it shrinks it would help but if it shrinks too much then the food chain they rely on may be impacted. Basically, as a creature of the sea ice they need an optimum sea-ice cover to thrive.”
Dr. Ropert-Coudert , I agree we need Antarctic to be ‘not too hot and not too cold, but just right’ as the baby bear said. Oh, hold on, there are no baby bears in Antarctic, they are all in in the Arctic, but there are no penguins in the Arctic, oh never mind, forget it …
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/12/penguin-catastrophe-leads-to-demands-for-protection-in-east-antarctica
Years ago we had religion telling us that the Earth is exactly as it has always been since creation. Now science is trying, at least to imply the same thing. This is a function of idiots getting university educations and professorships.
University educations? Or merely university credentials?
How is this even possible? After all, the Grauniad keeps telling us the Earth is heating up due to AGW….
You could teach a parrot to say “You’re a denier”. That’s the intellectual level of their argument.
And you could teach the same parrot to say “You’re an alarmist.” So what.
Translation: Al Gore: “You don’t believe strong enough!”
Sounds like a religious proclamation to me.
Stalin had no problem enforcing political orthodoxy without debasing religion.
If Algore could send ‘deniers’ to the Gulag, he’d have an easier time, too.
Substitute the word “heretic” in the place of “denier” and you will understand all.
Bill, my sentiments exactly. If I had scrolled down further in the comments I could have save myself the typing. 🙂
Thank you, Bjorn Lomborg
Ad hominems are the means of escaping debate especially when your beliefs are grounded in fantasy.
did tinkerbelle dieded?
If the tale had been told by the Brothers Grimm, she would have.
I do not understand why anyone is interested in the opinions of Al Gore. He does not appear to be the sharpest tool in the box, and is no scientist.
A recent article discussed on Physics org, suggests that past levels of CO2 may have been much lower than previously thought. Whilst, CO2 lags temperature, it is significant that during very warm periods when the planet may have been as much as 18degC warmer than today, Co2 levels may have been no more than around 1,000 ppm.
Of course, the tectonic plates and distribution of land masses was rather different, but if it is the case that the atmosphere contained only around 1,000 ppm for lengthy periods, it demonstrates how little we know as to what causes warming and what ,if any role, CO2 plays in that. I highlight some of the article.
Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-10-carbon-dioxide-thought-super-greenhouse.html#jCp
He speaks science! He must be a denier!!! Burn him! Burn him!
Sorta sarc/?
“I do not understand why anyone is interested in the opinions of Al Gore. He does not appear to be the sharpest tool in the box, and is no scientist”
I exactly agree with that.
If you want to contend with climate science, you would be better off ignoring Gore and engaging directly with the science.
Why, griff, do you know someone on your side of the argument who KNOWS the science?
ITS NOT ABOUT SCIENCE, its about politics.
You know this … that is why you provide misleading information so much and so often.
I’d be glad to Griff, if you could find some.
Agree Griff.
As long as All Gore is no longer the AGW shipmast.
Richard,
You said, “I do not understand why anyone is interested in the opinions of Al Gore. He does not appear to be the sharpest tool in the box, and is no scientist.” Nor is Algo Rythm the brightest bulb on the tree.
In the US, despite constitutional prohibitions against aristocratic titles, people tend to give respect, even adoration, to celebrities out of all proportion to their objective qualifications, such as background in science, wisdom that comes from age, demonstrated intelligence, or even political acumen. Former elected officials (has beens), those blessed with a good voice (e.g. Barbra Streisand), members of the acting guild who have demonstrated the ability to memorize lines in a script, and news ‘anchors,’ are fawned over by the media and have groupies following their pronouncements as though they were actually important. (Admittedly, they do have some power that is related to their wealth.) It seems to be part of the same syndrome that has people addicted to their social media applications and ‘liking’ people. It is a human shallowness that is amplified by technology that allows instant reaction instead of considered reflection.
But then, there are still those in the former colonies who care what the Queen and her children are doing.
‘….Journalists also ensure debate “purity.” In Scientific American, climate writer and former CNN producer Peter Dykstra stated baldly that “climate denial extends beyond rejecting climate science,” comparing policy questioners to Holocaust deniers and dismissing my own decade of advocacy for a green energy R&D fund as “minimization.”
“This intolerance for discussion is alarming…..”
Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four isn’t a fictional novel anymore. It’s morphing into an instruction manual for climate alarmism. The climate thought police are everywhere……
You have to fight and stand up and be counted, it’s just no good moaning on here anonymously and it’s no good justifying keeping quiet because of your job, friends, career or whatever. There are millions of us out here and we just need to grow a pair and CONFRONT the BS at EVERY SINGLE OPPORTUNITY.
It’s our JOB to save the Earth from this madness RIGHT NOW. So get to it guys and gals! We could have a public demo on 4th November if you like, I understand the film crews are booked to be on 24hr standby on that day for some inexplicable reason.
Pro tip: NO silly placards and NO silly hats please.
Reverend,
No “silly hats???” What if it is colored black and blue?
Is it, perhaps, because the catastrophic warming clique don’t believe their claims any more than the most ardent deniers? it’s pretty hard to explain the continued wide spread opposition to nuclear and geothermal power generation of anyone who really believes carbon dioxide is a problem.
Think about it… If they really believed in catastrophic climate change they could have started being honest about nuclear power 30 years ago. By now carbon dioxide emissions would be far lower than the best case scenario of the Paris agreement, just from the gradual replacement of fossil fired generation.
It seems the only conclusion is that Al Gore and his supporters are in fact “Climate Deniers.” If they believed their doomsday scenarios they would be behaving differently. They would be trying to solve the problem instead of trying to silence opposition.
” If they believed their doomsday scenarios they would be behaving differently. …”
I notice this all the time. If they really thought harm was coming to us then wouldn’t good news be welcomed and a massive relief? But no! Any proof that things are not as bad as claimed is met with opposition.
You can tell someone is dysfunctional when they would rather have a global catastrophe than be personally wrong about something.
This is very true and I have noticed it personally in some online debates I have had with members of the flock (sheeple). It is worth bearing in mind because it does look very stupid when exposed and the more you can prod, poke and expose the fallacies the better. I’ve got some stuff into online print which just sits there for months on end and gathers more and more viewers every day (I know as there are counters in some places). Some stuff has reached over 1,000 readers so even if a small percentage are made to think a bit more I feel I am doing some good.
You do have to be careful as much online blog chat etc is moderated and it can get removed. I try to plant a few seeds, have a bit of a chat and then leave it. Often it gets overlooked by the “censors” if the discussion is finished but new readers can come in every day. If you craft it well however it can get readership traction and rise up the google search results.
Reverend,
Yes, I have frequently had things removed from the “Conversation” because the author or another commenter had no good response.
Anything that might threaten the flow of the sweet, sweet taxpayer money must be silenced!
It’s amazing… all of the intelligent people I know, people who make a living through applied science principles, people who do something that requires intellect, all are either what al-Gore calls “deniers”, or at best, lukewarmers.
The strident believers that I know, however, tend to know very little about science, can’t add two 2-digit integers without a calculator, and think a few square feet of solar panels on the roof can run an entire household.
al-Gore can spare me his condescension – I know a con artist when I see one.
I don’t know what an integer is, but I’m damn sure I can smell a warmist when I see one.
A bit of age is all that’s required to remember the global cooling scare, and the conspicuous lack of lifestyle change in the last 40 years, to understand AGW is just a lot of nonsense.
And, to whoever is tasked with moderating today, I apologize. I’m not commenting here as often as I used to, and forgot that the dreaded d word is immediate moderation.
Thick Sea Ice is leading to catastrophic breading failure of Penguins. The real harm comes from global cooling, not warming. Why isn’t this headlne news?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/thousands-penguin-chicks-starve-antarctica-043725803.html
It was featured prominently here:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/12/penguin-catastrophe-leads-to-demands-for-protection-in-east-antarctica
“This year’s event has also been attributed to an unusually large amount of sea ice. Overall, Antarctica has had a record low amount of summer sea ice, but the area around the colony has been an exception.
Ropert-Coudert said the region had been severely affected by the break-up of the Mertz glacier tongue in 2010, when a piece of ice almost the size of Luxembourg – about 80 km long and 40km wide – broke off. That event, which occurred about 250km from Petrels Island, had a big impact on ocean currents and ice formation in the region.”
so not down to cooling, but local conditions and this:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/feb/26/antarctica-iceberg-global-ocean-circulation
Funny, for many years record high ice levels in the antarctic were ignored by Griff.
This is a locally large amount Mark.
Griff,
The point is, people like you get concerned when the ice shelves/pack decrease in size, and others get concerned when an increase has a negative impact on the ecosystem. It is unrealistic to expect that anything related to climate will remain constant. Change is what weather does, and it has impacts on the ocean and land. The real D-Nyers are those who expect weather and the surface of Earth to be static.
Is this the point to ask will the arctic be ice free in 2018? You keep saying it’s going to happen.
I get it now! The ice retreats, it’s caused by global warming. If ice advances, it’s cause by local conditions.
Boy, that makes it clear. For I while I just didn’t know what to think.
Griff,
the expert Guardian link poster, who claims he uses them as merely reference for in depth scientific studies.
But given the opportunity, he posts more Guardian links, with no scientific references whatsoever.
Griff, the only rhetorical skill you have mastered is moving the goal posts.
The guardian and it’s eco biased warriors would never tell a porky just like Griff, they are outstanding at being fair and accurate ./sarc
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/03/07/how-left-or-right-wing-are-uks-newspapers/
The most left wing rag in the UK and pretty obvious why he always quotes it.
When your enemy is reduced to “eating its own”, the end-game is near. Thank heavens!!
He can’t answer simple questions, so he just say “denier”
http://crm114.com/algore/images/dunce.jpg
Nice hat! Is he the Pope?
So what about him not graduating from Vanderbilt? The reason he dropped out was because the House seat formerly held by his father opened up due to a retirement. Gore ran for the seat and won it. Wow, the guy’s a failure because he won an election to the House at the age of 28.
That gives clear evidence that
morons / idiotspeople with learning disabilities may still become politicians, but only when backed by their family.Most people graduate high school at 18 or less. Four years of college puts them at 22. SIX years later and he has not completed law school.
If he was working his way through school, he would have a reasonable excuse. The five “F’s”, and the inability to understand the distinction between “leading and lagging” elements in a time series, tells you what his problem was in school. If he was a middle class kid, he would be selling cars.
Cars are far too ambitious for Al, but most probably he might have failed as snake oil peddler or even as hobo.
It must be frustrating to come so close to becoming a trillionaire and missing it because of an inconvenient thing like the facts. Damn!
Bjorn Lomborg is very generous here in using examples of other people being castigated for insufficient fervour. His own experience in Western Australia is one not to be forgotten. The University of Western Australia in Perth was awarded a A$4m grant to host a centre for Lomborg’s consensus conferences which have done a good job debating where is the best place to invest. A group of academics (I use the term generously here – only in that at least some of them had academic positions at UWA) caused a fuss and the university turned down the grant! Think about that – a university turning down money in order to prevent discussion on a topic of high relevance to public policy, just because it was associated with someone deemed not properly on board with the message.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-08/bjorn-lomborg-uwa-consensus-centre-contract-cancelled/6456708
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
H.L. Mencken
This just confirms my opinion that Al Gore is a religious nut.
Expect DJT to be his nutcracker.
Bjorn, “reality of climate change”. Sorry but you have no evidence to support that claim alongside claiming others said things lacking evidence or evidence to the contrary, how self aware are you 😉