Guest essay by Rud Istvan
This (possible) guest post is a result of watching the MSM commentary on Hurricane Harvey in SE Texas (Houston), and the buildup to possible Cat 4-5 Irma. (Note, which we are watching carefully, since live east of the Intercoastal directly on the Atlantic in Fort Lauderdale, with the ocean preternaturally calm and hot for this time of year.) We chose to live here, and should ourselves pay the local price if Irma comes. Hence this philosophical guest post.
Highly relevant side fact comment: We are not stupid, yet did not buy Federal Flood Insurance. We live on the 12th floor of a 27 floor concrete and steel condo building built to post Andrew hurricane standards in 1998. Steel reinforced concrete footings 80 feet down into ‘bedrock’ every ~ 10 feet (spacing is parking garage determined). Our balcony sliding glass/aluminum doors are cat 5 proof (the standard being a 2×4 flung at 150 mph), entailing double 1/8 inch safety glass (nitrogen sealed) set in ¼ in thick aluminum frames with 3 inch rain sills, double bolted every 18 inches into 8 inch steel reinforced concrete. Not light or cheap (even though Wilma did overtop the sills a bit requiring some mop up with towels that terrifying night). The building ‘ground floor’ which is the lowest parking level is purpose built ~10 feet above mean high tide (MHT) behind artificial sand dunes planted in sea oats and sea grapes (against wave erosion), and equipped with emergency generator powered flood drain pumps. In a hurricane approach, all lowest parking deck vehicles are relocated to the second of three parking decks, 20 feet above MHT (like the building lobby entrance) to accommodate storm surge. And, all the entrances from the lowest parking garage level to those elevators are purpose built like concrete/steel/gasket Navy ship seal doors. So heavy, they require electric motors to open and close. (And all elevator mechanisms are at the building top, not the bottom, and double conduited and sealed.) All the emergency services like nat gas standby generators to operate elevators and hall lighting are located on the second “land” floor” above 20 feet of storm surge (and tested for one hour every other day). Cheap, no. Safe, yes. As Wilma more or less proved in 2005 when we rode her out. Building was fine. Surroundings were not. Weeks of misery. Should probably have evacuated. Will next Cat greater than 2.
So it seems to me that there are three levels of responsibility to natural disasters—whether weather or ‘climate’. The first level is implied by E Pluribus Unum (read the motto on all US coinage). AKA the United States of America. We are a Union of States with very different circumstances, committed to constitutionally providing a united minimum response anywhere including military and legal. OK, per Constitution Preamble. That means New England is threatened by winter blizzards, the Gulf and SE Coasts by fall hurricanes, the Mississippi Valley by spring melts, and the West Coasts by earthquakes at any time whatsoever. Deal. We will help you if you help us. The differences and randomness almost guarantees this ‘macrodeal’ is ‘fair’. Nobody can know otherwise. God Bless America.
But then there is a second, more local/regional level of mutual responsibility. New Englander’s should pay for standby snowplows that have no utility in Los Angeles. Affected Californians should pay for earthquake resistant buildings that have no utility in New England. With respect to Harvey, why is the rest of the country being asked to pay for housing damage in suburban tracts that were build in designated flood plains when the Army Corps of Engineers finally was required to build Addicks and Barker dry reservoirs feeding Buffalo Bayou? Why is this not a Houston local responsibility? Tragedy, yes. Avoidable by responsible local adaptation, also yes. And little to do with E Pluribus Unum.
But then there is a third level personal responsibility. Per current main steam media (MSM), only 20% of those who bought overbuilt homes in known since 1930’s metropolitan Houston flood plains bought national federal flood insurance from the now bankrupt Federal Flood Insurance Program (bankrupt because of the preceding paragraph and ongoing stupidity). And we at hurricane risk in Fort Lauderdale, after having paid much privately for personal hurricane security, are being asked to also pay for this Houston nonsense because the results are so sad. No. The results were locally and self determined. Houston violated our E Pluribus Unum bargain. There should be no free pity rides.
More emotion than logic being exhibited in this thread. Of course everyone has sympathy for victims of a disaster. Unless I’m wrong, flood and earthquake insurance are Federally funded. Why buy it if you’re going to get bailed out anyway? What does that do to the insurance pool? And what about the people that have flood or earthquake damage that is not part of a national emergency and no insurance? Tough luck on them for having a local disaster? The author’s point is valid….. if someone wants to take a chance and not buy insurance why should they deserve coverage? We don’t lament someone’s gambling losses as out of their hands do we? On the other hand, unless I’m wrong again, national disaster relief is not equivalent to insurance recovery. It doesn’t replace X% of your total loss but rather provide money to start a rebuild of your life so we’re arguing apples and oranges. And again unless I’m wrong another time, those with insurance in a Federally funded disaster recovery zone get the disaster relief as well as their insurance claim.
So I built my life, went to school, married, raised a family, worked a career since moving here in 1963.
And fought like crazy to get more flood controls in place.
I shot video of a poorly designed City of Houston flood mitigation asset failing during the 2016 flood.
Presented it to the Mayor, and argued down the techno-lazy’s an the City Public Works until they admitted I and my neighbors were correct about the failed asset.
And the City still did nothing to fix it.
And for this Istvan condemns me and my neighbors with a broad brush from the 12 floor, (thanks for the correction)?
We were not party goers on the Ship of Fools.
We have built our lives in a fabulous dynamic city that adds to the good of the entire nation.
The Lunar Landing and humans in space, energy, chemicals, medicines, health care, transportation, International trade and commerce, Houston contributes more than its share in all those areas and more.
So for someone who lives in a place that gets hit harder and more frequently than us, and has not been seriously tested by a storm in many years to disdain us while we are just starting a massive complex recovery is not at all welcome.
And to do so in a way that reflects badly on him, badly on skeptics, and is counter factual and mean spirited just hit me wrong.
Living in San Francisco has its rewards – and dangers. Likewise in Houston, Fort Lauderdale, or Staten Island. It feels unfair that people who do not share the rewards should share the cost of a disaster mitigation. Why should it reflect badly on me?
“And the City still did nothing to fix it.
And for this Istvan condemns me and my neighbors with a broad brush from the 12 floor, (thanks for the correction)”
So you just admitted that you KNOW that your city has FAILED to protect you and your neighbors from flooding in the past and has done nothing to fix that, and you still choose to live there. Do you have flood insurance?
Ristvan condemned NO ONE. Why do you insist on hyperbole and appeals to the extreme? He didn’t even remotely suggest most of the things you personally interpreted from his article. He even admitted that he does not have flood insurance and if flooding happens to him, it’s on him. He doesn’t expect the Federal government to cover it for him.
I can be a compassionate, helpful person who spends my own time and money to rescue, dig, haul, feed and clothe others while at the same time expecting others to take every precaution to protect themselves as much as possible. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. He even said that Americans help each other when tragedy strikes for crying out loud. His ONLY point was that it’s WRONG to expect fellow Americans to pay to rebuild a house that’s likely to get destroyed again, or that wasn’t adequately insured in the first place. No one owes anyone that. And Texans aren’t likely to accept it anyway.
lol.
No city is perfect.
Sandy damage was largely due to poor infrastructure and building codes.
Of course I carry insurance.
And unless Istvan is supervweslthy he is silly not to carry insurance as well.
His high rise certainly carries insurance against storm and flood.
And they have the right to proportionately assess him for the undoubtedly large deductible.
The fact is that federal disaster assistance has been going on for a long time, and it always costs all of us as a nation.
What is offensive in Istvan’s essay us his assertion that the Harvey disaster is unique and that he gets to decide that he and America should just sit thus one out.
No way.
We are in it together and his uninformed essay us insulting in how he goes on about his opinion if his condo, which in poetic justice timing may be facing (I certainly hope not) it’s 1st actual test in a few days.
No only do you attribute things to ristvan that he did NOT say, you seem to ignore the stuff he DID say like:
“We chose to live here, and should ourselves pay the local price if Irma comes. Hence this philosophical guest post.” (hint-He’s saying that he’s prepared to take the same advice he’s dishing out.)
You ignored the FIRST TWO levels of responsibility he listed too and went straight for his jugular with names, lies, and completely extreme conclusions based on YOUR interpretation of what he said.
YOU read his essay as mean spirited and it hit you wrong. That does NOT mean he wrote it in a mean spirited way does it? He has said NOTHING about income or the “poor” or even ventured into the lives of the people on Houston, but YOU have made repeated swipes at his income level. He NEVER said he wanted the people of Houston to suffer, nor made any sarcastic comments about it, but YOU mentioned all kinds of ways his building could be destroyed and he could suffer. He didn’t call anyone names. YOU did. And YOU keep bringing up what level his condo is on…like where he lives automatically makes him “smug”. What on earth do you think your self righteous accusations make YOUR posts sound like?
Give it a rest. Your frustrations are evident and your feelings are valid. But don’t take them out on someone else who simply voiced his own opinion, whose feelings are just as valid as your own. Turning what he said into strawman arguments to make yourself feel better about attacking him doesn’t make you right, even if it makes you feel better.
Aphan +1
Anyone remember President Reagan’s “evil” Interior Secretary, James Watt? He proposed a complete change in construction and insurance policy for the USA in danger zones. He was vilified, made fun of and attacked from all sides. Part of his proposal was that if you are presently built in a flood plain or storm zone and your house gets destroyed government would pay for your house but you could not rebuild on the same site, you would have to move your location. If you did rebuild anyway you would be required to have private insurance or government would not pay a second time. A third time and you would not be allowed to rebuild regardless. Over time it would move people out of danger zones. Just a note, most people for get how many homes were destroyed by Andrew. Almost all, if not all were supposedly built to code. It turned out that the code had been watered down over the years, house built in the 1930s had a better chance of survival then brand new house. Or even houses built to the code in effect had never been properly inspected by government inspectors.
Yep. I wish we had gone that direction some 30 years ago.
That doesn’t even begin to tickle what happened. Roof shingles were stapled in, instead of being nailed. A condo building that was 2 or 3 stories tall (I don’t remember) had the entire end wall fall away – the whole end wall was attached with only two (2) nails! Etc, etc, etc. The stories were unbelievable. The real miracle of Andrew was that the loss of life wasn’t much greater.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/30/flood-insurance-policies-plunge-in-houston.html
Yes, people chose not to get flood insurance. Many of the people hit in Houston do not live in designated flood plains, and if they don’t, they are not required by law to have it. Many said they couldn’t afford it, or planned to get it and forgot.
BUT those without it are being told they’ll have to pay for repairs themselves by taking out loans, digging into savings, or selling. None of those things come out of taxpayer’s pockets Ristvan. So where do you get the idea that taxpayers across the country will be paying for repairs to uninsured homes??
Government low interest disaster loans are available across the Country for all kinds of natural disasters. Perhaps he is referring to those. BTW, I have always wondered how many of those loans actually get paid back in full.
Interesting to read Rud Istvan’s piece as I had just written a letter to my Congressman, shown below.
Why should future taxpayers have to pay for the inevitable flood occurrence from building a city on a flat, flood prone area known to be in the path of hurricanes? If the popular free market allows you to do this the cost of flood protection and damage payments should come from local insurance and user community accumulated in years of good weather, not from the 97% who don’t live there.
.The Army Corps of Engineers opened the Addicks and Barker dams 17 miles from Houston, adding to the flooding there, because allowing the area near the lakes to flood would be even worse for the high priced homes built around the reservoirs. . Both dams were built with taxpayer money to prevent flooding of the waterway that runs through Houston. Part of tens of billions of tax dollars spent to make Houston a deep water port 50 miles inland.
The huge “humanitarian disaster aid” bill will probably glide through Congress with the Texas legislators who voted against relief for Sandy fully supporting it. The Galveston Hurricane of 1900 killed around 10,000 residents. It is just stupid to build where the high risks are already known and to encourage it with cheap flood insurance, now $25 billion in the red. I read that a $115,000 house in Houston has been repaired 16 times in 18 years at a cost of $800,000. Harvey is not the first to hit Houston: two tropical storms in 2015 and 2016 caused damage listed in the top 15 highest cost floods in US history,
If Texas decides regulations are not needed and it’s OK to build on flood plains I don’t see why the rest of us should pay for their folly. It should also be noted that flood prevention is far cheaper than paying for flood damage. What plans are there to prevent another flood? I haven’t heard of any. Further such new structures should be largely paid for by the 10% that benefit from them.
The Addicks and Barker floodgates were opened because the Corps was worried about their integrity and could not allow them to be overtopped. They were built in the 40’s and upgrades were underway but not far along. Probably the reason you haven’t heard of plans to prevent floods in Houston is because a number of Corps approved projects that would have helped a lot have failed to get through Congress year after year.
Adrian,
While you do make some good points, there is a LOT more to the story.
Congress, for over 30 years under funded Flood defenses in SE Texas.
For starters.
The actual story is much longer and complex.
Hunter,
Why should taxpayers pay for the folly of building Houston in its present location? If the locals want it there they should pay for it.
Adrian, every city in the country has exposure to some known risk of flood, storm, tsunami, earthquake.
Your question is one that does not deserve a serious answer.
Perhaps you have a serious point to offer?
Adrian, Some of your points are valid but with the MSM today after Katrina, it is political suicide especially for a Republican to be against helping the Hurricane victims.
Several points
We taxpayers just gave California big bucks to fix a dam that they ignored to fix for I don’t know how long even though they had a drought for years and decided to squander their $$$ elsewhere much of which goes to people who don’t legally live here. If here why not Houston too
Hurricane Katrina evacuation warnings by the Federal Government were totally ignored by the La Governor and the City Mayor who did nothing to prepare leaving buses to flood and people to die. I assume you know the President has no authority to mandate an evacuation. But then the media took up the Political agenda that Bush was racist and wanted minorities to die and he was to blame although the main effort was supposed to the local responsibility.
Unfortunately negligence on the part of local hack politicians was blamed on the Federal government and set the stage for future Presidents to get involved and spend Federal money to stay in office. BTW New Orleans is below sea level and makes less sense than most places and they apparently have not maintained their pumps.
Houston is a major economic factor in part based on their Port to the Gulf and total relocation is not practical. Houston area contributes a lot to our economy and provides essential fuels and chemicals to the country. The private businesses are either insured or have sufficient back up funds or they will go out of business.
In New Jersey, after sandy the requirements were that homes had to be elevated if they sustained a lot of flooding. I have a Shore home with flood insurance that has never been flooded although Sandy was close. I cannot add to my house since I am just under the increased minimum higher level post Sandy ( based on exaggerated SLR predictions.). Although I was not eligible many homes in my town have been raised although the did not experience major water intrusion.
I don’t know about other States but a large percent of homes have been raised that saw water damage from Sandy, they are not rebuilding or just repairing damaged homes as suggested by many. Houston should consider the same approach rather than abandoning the whole city.
Last, maybe the Corp of Engineers tried, but knowing a major rainstorm was coming, it would have seemed prudent to release a lot water from the dams in preparation. I feel especially sorry for those who were flooded because of Dam release since many did not have insurance not being in a flood zone .
New Englander’s should pay for standby snowplows that have no utility in Los Angeles. Affected Californians should pay for earthquake resistant buildings that have no utility in New England.
*************************************************************************************************************
makes no sense when taken in conjunction with rest of article.
I think you meant to say should NOT twice there.
Lenbilen,
The choice not to evacuate for Harvey is considered to be the lesson from Hurricane Rita. Just after Katrina, it was a Cat 5 and people were jumpy already. Houston and Galveston evacuated, tremendous traffic jams in blazing heat, over 100 deaths in the evacuation. Many people who had evacuated from New Orleans to Houston were evacuated a second time. The storm degenerated to a Cat 3 before landfall near the Texas/Louisiana border. Both cities completely spared.
A lot of rain was part of the prediction for Harvey but nobody knew it would be as much as it turned out to be. Even so it caused fewer deaths than the unnecessary Rita evacuation.
This is another stalled system, but this one is in Canada. Who’s responsible for their damage?
“A flood, with the flow comparable to Niagara Falls, strikes a Canadian town and rips apart roads, bridges, and hillsides. Houses are swept away by the mind-blowing power of raging waters that reach up to 30 feet high.
Bush is responsible according to the Liberals because he exited the Paris Accords. He had 9 months and did not fix all the problems Obama left behind
sarc/off
If you live in a flood zone and have a mortgage you have flood insurance. However, flood zones are not always accurate, without many decades of records and good modeling of the drainage you may not be able to tell about marginal areas. A house that never flooded may flood, not because of more rain, but due to changes in the local drain system. When Floyd hit VA we had about 20 inches over a couple of days. My house did not flood but the water came within 6 inches of doing so, A 40-inch rain would for sure have flooded us. I was not in a flood plain and in fact was pretty near the highest point in my area. One apartment complex flooded to the second floor due to freeway construction and messed up drains. Also not a flood zone. I now live at the highest point in my area. Officially not a flood plain, and not in a hurricane evacuation area. Across the road from my subdivision entrance is zone D. So no flood insurance. Looking at local topography, I think I would be OK from a 40-inch rainfall over a few days or a 30 ft storm surge. Winds could get me, but for that I have insurance. I think that planning departments need to carefully study their cities or counties and make sure possible flood zones are well known and new construction, and flood rebuilding, takes that information into account. After Isabel many local houses needed rebuilt, took years but a lot more homes now have living floors above expected flood heights. Another 10-ft flood should do less damage.
As this thread winds down let me correct some misunderstanding. Flood plain and flood zone are not the same. Anywhere there is even the remotest possibility of a flood is considered a flood plain. That covers a large amount of the Country. Areas in flood plains have flood zone designations based on several factors. Elevation, history, surrounding topography and more I am sure. The flood zone X is still in a flood plain but has a very low probability of flooding. The flood zone AE is an A zone with a known elevation and has a higher probability of flooding. There is a D zone meaning undetermined although that is probably mostly phased out now as satellite and aerial photography are used more and more. There are other more obscure zone designations. Flood insurance premiums are based on these zone designations. And just because a property lot is in a certain zone doesn’t mean the house on that property is in the same zone. You can take an AE zoned property and elevate the base level of the house above the base flood elevation and the AE becomes X.
Flood zones and insurance rates are not a simple as many commenters think they are
Thank you Tom. Your calm and fact based posts are very much appreciated.
I awoke after a bad night’s sleep to Reid’s essay and read it before even a cup of coffee.
I could have and should have reacted more thoughtfully and less angrily.
My replies would have been closer in style to yours.
Hunter, no problem. Most of us here understand where you’re coming from. The folks in your part of the country have yet again shown the rest of us how truly great Americans can be when the chips are down. Best of luck to you and your neighbors,
Rud, I do hope you will or already have evacuated your home in Bwd County.
We realize it’s very tempting for some elitists to sit in their lofty towers, sneering down upon the unwashed peasants below; but keep in mind that the higher the elevation, the higher the wind speed. Stay Safe. Keep your family safe. Sincerely, B
Without a sarc tag, so apparently Barbee couldn’t resist the temptation to get in a cheap shot. Luckily self righteousness is an equal opportunity vice, so she can be smug and petty regardless of her income level or personal circumstance!!
I agree with the essay, except on the e pluribus unum part. I’m from Idaho. We don’t have natural disasters. We get nothing from helping any of you idiots that live in places racked by natural disasters.
Really Zombie? You must be very young, or a transplant. I remember all of these except the 1910 Burn (largest wildfire in US history)
http://www.onlyinyourstate.com/idaho/id-disasters/
And don’t forget the Teton Dam failure. Idaho has received Federal Disaster $$$ many times.
Oh, and how are you enjoying those earthquake swarms lately??
It’s the federal government fault those things happen in the first place. They don’t maintain the land well and don’t let us maintain it ourselves. 65-70 percent of Idaho is federal land. As for the earthquakes, they are minor, we don’t need any help with them. In fact, I have yet to notice a single quake in my life, and no one I know from there has said anything about them
61.7%
Did you actually READ the list? Just exactly how is the US Federal Government responsible for volcanos, earthquakes, lightening, locusts and floods????
I grew up in Idaho, and my family and friends are talking every day about the earthquake swarms CURRENTLY happening there. Sorry, but your personal experience/opinion carries ZERO weight with me.
http://idahostatejournal.com/news/local/earthquakes-since-sept-over-quakes-have-struck-southeast-idaho-so/article_a16f6e7a-0cfe-575e-bd53-84810f1f8178.html
Oh wait….60 quakes between that article and the next day, and then this:
http://fox13now.com/2017/09/11/u-of-u-seismologists-monitor-swarm-of-earthquakes-in-southeastern-idaho/
They are feeling them in Utah. But don’t worry, if anything bad happens, we won’t send aid. 🙂
Please don’t. We are pretty self sufficient
As people, yes. As a state…nope. Idaho gets a spud truckload of Federal money every year. You might want to start sending it back. 🙂
http://boisestatepublicradio.org/post/idaho-more-dependent-federal-government-most-states#stream/0
http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article60194881.html
Wish we would