Guest Essay by Kip Hansen

This essay is long-ish — and is best saved for a time when you have time to read it in its entirety. It will be worth the wait and the eventual effort. It comes in three sections: a Primer on Averages, a general discussion of Fruit Salad metrics, and a more in-depth discussion of an example using a published study.
NB: While this essay is using as an example a fairly recent study by Catherine M. O’Reilly, Sapna Sharma, Derek K. Gray, and Stephanie E. Hampton, titled “Rapid and highly variable warming of lake surface waters around the globe” [ .pdf here; poster here, AGU Meeting video presentation here ], it is not meant to be a critique of the paper itself — I will leave that to others with a more direct interest. My interest is in the logical and scientific errors, the informational errors, that can result from what I have playfully coined “The First Law of Averages”.
Averages: A Primer
As both the word and the concept “average” are subject to a great deal of confusion and misunderstanding in the general public and both word and concept have seen an overwhelming amount of “loose usage” even in scientific circles, not excluding peer-reviewed journal articles and scientific press releases, let’s have a quick primer (correctly pronounced “prim – er”), or refresher, on averages (the cognizanti can skip this bit and jump directly to Fruit Salad).

and, of course, the verb meaning to mathematically calculate an average, as in “to average”.
Since there are three major types of “averages” — the mode, the median, and the mean — a quick look at these:



Several of these definitions refer to “a set of data”… In mathematics, a set is a well-defined collection of distinct objects, considered as an object in its own right. (For example, the numbers 2, 4, and 6 are distinct objects when considered separately, but when they are considered collectively they form a single set of size three, written {2,4,6}.)
This image summarizes the three different common “averages”:

Here we see the Ages at which patients develop Stage II Hypertension (severe HBP – high blood pressure) along the bottom (x-axis) and the Number of Patients along the left vertical axis (y-axis). This bar graph or histogram shows that some patients develop HBP fairly young, in their late 30 and 40s, after 45 the incidence increases more or less steadily with advancing age to peak in the mid-60s, falling off after that age. We see what is called a skewed distribution, skewed to the right. This shewdness (right or left) is typical of many real world distributions.
What we would normally call the average, the mean, calculated by adding together all the patient’s ages at which they developed HBP and dividing by the total number of patients, though mathematically correct, is not very clinically informative. While it is true that the Mean Age for Developing HPB is around 52 it is far more common to develop HPB in one’s late 50s to mid- 60s. There are medical reasons for this skewing of the data — but for our purposes, it is enough to know that those outlying patients who develop HPB at younger ages skew the mean — ignoring the outliers at the left would bring the mean more in line with the actual incidence figures.
For the medically inclined, this histogram hints that there may be two different causes or disease paths for HPB, one that causes early onset HPB and one related to advancing age, sometimes known as late High Blood Pressure.
(In this example, the Median Age for HPB is not very informative at all.)
Our HPB example can be read as “Generally, one begins their real risk of developing late HPB in their mid-40s and the risk continues to increase until their mid-60s. If you haven’t developed HPB by 65 or so, your risk decreases with additional years, though you still must be vigilant.”
Different data sets have different information values for the different types of averages.
Housing prices for an area are often quoted as Median Housing Costs. If we looked at the mean, the average would be skewed upward by the homes preferred by the wealthiest 1% of the population, homes measured in millions of dollars (see here, and here, and here).
Stock markets are often judged by things like the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) [which is a price-weighted average of 30 significant stocks traded on the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) and the NASDAQ and was invented by Charles Dow back in 1896]. A weighted average is a mean calculated by giving values in a data set more influence according to some attribute of the data. It is an average in which each quantity to be averaged is assigned a weight, and these weightings determine the relative importance of each quantity on the average. The S&P 500 is a stock market index tracks the 500 most widely held stocks on the New York Stock Exchange or NASDAQ. [A stock index … is a measurement of the value of a section of the stock market. It is computed from the prices of selected stocks, typically a weighted average.]
Family incomes are reported by the US Census Bureau annually as the Median Household Income for the United States [$55,775 in 2015].
Life Expectancy is reported by various international organizations as “average life expectancy at birth” (worldwide it was 71.0 years over the period 2010–2013). “Mathematically, life expectancy is the mean number of years of life remaining at a given age, assuming age-specific mortality rates remain at their most recently measured levels. … Moreover, because life expectancy is an average, a particular person may die many years before or many years after the “expected” survival.” (Wiki).
Using any of the major internet search engines to search phrases including the word “average” such as “average cost of a loaf of bread”, “average height of 12-year-old children” can keep one entertained for hours.
However, it is doubtful that you will be more knowledgeable as a result.
This series of essays is an attempt to answer this last point: Why studying averages might not make you more knowledgeable.
Fruit Salad
We are all familiar with the concept of comparing Apples and Oranges.

Sets to be averaged must be homogeneous, as in comparable and not so heterogeneous as to be incommensurable.


Problems arise, both physically and logically, when attempts are made to find “averages” of non-comparable or incommensurable objects — objects and/or measurements, which do not logically or physically (scientifically) belong in the same “set”.
The discussion of sets for Americans schooled in the 40s and 50s can be confusing, but later, younger Americans were exposed to the concepts of sets early on. For our purposes, we can use a simple definition of a collection of data regarding a number of similar, comparable, commensurable, homogeneous objects, and if a data set, the data being itself comparable and in compatible measurement units. (Many data sets contains many sub-sets of different information about the same set of objects. A data set about a study of Eastern Chipmunks might include sub-sets such as height, weight, estimated age, etc. The sub-sets must be internally homogeneous — as “all weights in grams”.)
One cannot average the weight and the taste of a basket of apples. Weight and taste are not commensurable values. Nor can one average the weight and color of bananas.
Likewise, one cannot logically average the height/length of a set like “all animals living in the contiguous North American continent (considered as USA, Canada, and Mexico)” Why? Besides the difficulty in collecting such a data set, even though one’s measurements might all be in centimeters (whole or fractional), “all animals” is not a logical set of objects when considering height/length. Such a set would include all animals from bison, moose and Kodiak bears down through cattle, deer, dogs, cats, raccoons, rodents, worms, insects of all descriptions, multi-cellular but microscopic animals, and single-celled animals. In our selected geographical area there are (very very roughly) an estimated one quintillion five hundred quadrillion (1,500,000,000,000,000,000) insects alone. There are only 500 million humans, 122 million cattle, 83 million pigs and 10 million sheep in the same area. Insects are small and many in number and some mammals are comparatively large but few in number. Uni- and multicellular microscopic animals? Each of the 500 million humans has, on average, over 100 trillion (100,000,000,000,000 ) microbes in and on their body. By any method — mean, median, or mode — the average height/length of all North American animals would be literally vanishing small — so small that “on average” you wouldn’t expect to be able to see any animals with unaided eyes.
To calculate an average of any type that will be physically, scientifically meaningful as well as logical and useful, the set being averaged must itself make sense as a comparable, commensurable, homogenous collection of objects with data about those objects being comparable and commensurable.
As I will discuss later, there are cases where the collection (the data set) seems proper and reasonable, the data about the collection seems to be measurements in comparable units and yet the resulting average turns out to be non-physical — it doesn’t make sense in terms of physics or logic.
These types of averages, of disparate, heterogeneous data sets — in which either the measurements or the objects themselves are incommensurable — like comparing Apples and Oranges and Bananas — give a results which can be labelled Fruit Salad and have applicability and meaning that ranges from very narrow through nonsensical to none at all.
“Climate Change Rapidly Warming World’s Lakes”
This is claimed as the major finding of a study by Catherine M. O’Reilly, Sapna Sharma, Derek K. Gray, and Stephanie E. Hampton, titled “Rapid and highly variable warming of lake surface waters around the globe” [ .pdf here; poster here, AGU Meeting video presentation here ]. It is notable that the study is a result of the Global Lake Temperature Collaboration (GLTC) which states: “These findings, the need for synthesis of in situ and remote sensing datasets, and continued recognition that global and regional climate change has important impacts on terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems are the motivation behind the Global Lake Temperature Collaboration.”
The AGU Press Release regarding this study begins thus: “Climate change is rapidly warming lakes around the world, threatening freshwater supplies and ecosystems, according to a new study spanning six continents.”
“The study, which was funded by NASA and the National Science Foundation, found lakes are warming an average of 0.61 degrees Fahrenheit (0.34 degrees Celsius) each decade. That’s greater than the warming rate of either the ocean or the atmosphere, and it can have profound effects, the scientists say.”
All this is followed by scary “if this trend continues” scenarios.
Nowhere in the press release do they state what is actually being measured, averaged and reported. [See “What Are They Really Counting?”]
So, what is being measured and reported? Buried in the AGU Video presentation, Simon Hook, of JPL and one of the co-authors, in the Q&A session, reveals that “these are summertime nighttime surface temperatures.” Let me be even clearer on that — these are summertime nighttime skin surface water temperatures as in “The SST directly at the surface is called skin SST and can be significantly different from the bulk SST especially under weak winds and high amounts of incoming sunlight …. Satellite instruments that observe in the infrared part of the spectrum in principle measure skin SST.” [source] When pressed, Hook goes on to clarify that the temperatures in the study are greatly influenced by satellite measurement as the data is in large part satellite data, very little data is actually in situ [“in its original place or in position “ — by hand or buoy, for instance] measurements. This information is, of course, available to those who read the full study and carefully go through the supplemental information and data sets — but it is obscured by the reliance on stating, repeatedly “lakes are warming an average of 0.61 degrees Fahrenheit (0.34 degrees Celsius) each decade.“
What kind of average? Apples and Oranges and Bananas. Fruit Salad.
Here is the study’s map of the lakes studied:

One does not need to be a lake expert to recognize that these lakes range from the Great Lakes of North America and Lake Tanganyika in Africa to Lake Tahoe in the Sierra Nevada Mountains on the border of California and Nevada. Some lakes are smaller and shallow, some lakes are huge and deep, some lakes are in the Arctic and some are in the deserts, some lakes are covered by ice much of the year and some lakes are never iced over, some lakes are fed from melting snow and some are feed by slow-moving equatorial rivers.
Naturally, we would assume, that like Land Surface Temperature and Sea Surface Temperature, the Lake Water Temperature average in this study is weighted by lake surface area. No, it is not. Each lake in the study is given equal value, no matter how small or large, how deep or how shallow, snow fed or river fed. Since the vast majority of the study’s data is from satellite observations, the lakes are all “larger”, small lakes, like the reservoir for my town water supply, are not readily discerned by satellite.
So what do we have when we “average” the [summertime nighttime skin surface] water temperature of 235 heterogeneous lakes? We get a Fruit Salad — a metric that is mathematically correct, but physically and logically flawed beyond any use [except for propaganda purposes].
This is freely admitted in the conclusion of the study, which we can look at piecemeal: [quoted Conclusion in italics]
“The high level of spatial heterogeneity in lake warming rates found in this study runs counter to the common assumption of general regional coherence.”
Lakes are not regionally responding to a single cause — such as “global warming”. Lakes near one another or in a defined environmental region are not necessarily warming in similar manners or for the same reason, and some neighboring lakes have opposite signs of temperature change. The study refutes the researcher’s expectation that regional surface air temperature warming would correspond to regional lake warming. Not so.
“Lakes for which warming rates were similar in association with particular geomorphic or climatic predictors (i.e., lakes within a “leaf”) [see the study for the leaf chart] showed weak geographic clustering (Figure 3b), contrary to previous inferences of regional-scale spatial coherence in lake warming trends [Palmer et al., 2014; Wagner et al., 2012]. “
Lakes are warming for geomorphic (having to do with form of the landscape and other natural features of the Earth’s surface) and local climate — not regionally, but individually. This heterogeneity implies lack of a single or even similar causes within regions. Lack of heterogeneity homogeneity means that these lakes should not be consider a single set and thus should not be averaged together to find a mean. [ This correction made 17 Feb 2022 upon re-reading — kh ]
“In fact, similarly responding lakes were broadly distributed across the globe, indicating that lake characteristics can strongly mediate climatic effects.”
Globally, lakes are not a physically meaningful set in the context of surface water temperature.
“The heterogeneity in surface warming rates underscores the importance of considering interactions among climate and geomorphic factors that are driving lake responses and prevents simple statements about surface water trends; one cannot assume that any individual lake has warmed concurrently with air temperature, for example, or that all lakes in a region are warming similarly.”
Again, their conclusion is that, globally, lakes are not a physically meaningful set in the context of surface water temperature yet they insist on finding a simple average, the mean, and basing conclusions and warnings on that mean.
“Predicting future responses of lake ecosystems to climate change relies upon identifying and understanding the nature of such interactions.”
The surprising conclusion shows that if they want to find out what is affecting the temperature of any given lake, they will have to study that lake and its local ecosystem for the causes of any change.
A brave attempt has been made at saving this study with ad hoc conclusions — but most are simply admitting that their original hypothesis of “Global Warming Causes Global Lake Warming” was invalidated. Lakes (at least Summertime Nighttime Lake Skin Surface Temperatures) may be warming, but they are not warming even in step with air temperatures, not reliably in step with any other particular geomorphic or climatic factor, and not necessarily warming even if air temperatures in the locality are rising. As a necessary outcome, they fall back on the “average” lake warming metric.
This study is a good example of what happens when scientists attempt to find the averages of things that are dissimilar — so dissimilar that they do not belong in the same “set”. One can do it mathematically — all the numbers are at least in the same units of degrees C or F — but such averaging gives results that are non-physical and nonsensical — a Fruit Salad resulting from the attempt to average Apples and Oranges and Bananas.
Moreover, Fruit Salad averages not only can lead us astray on a topic but they obscure more information than they illuminate, as is clearly shown by comparing the simplistic Press Release statement “lakes are warming an average of 0.61 degrees Fahrenheit (0.34 degrees Celsius) each decade” to the actual, more scientifically valid findings of the study which show that each lake’s temperature is changing due to local, sometimes even individual, geomorphic and climate causes specific to each lake and casting doubt on the idea of global or regional causes.
Another example of a Fruit Salad metric was shown in my long-ago essay Baked Alaska? which highlighted the logical and scientific error of averaging temperatures for Alaska as a single unit, the “State of Alaska”, a political division, when Alaska, which is very large, consists of 13 distinct differing climate regions, which have been warming and cooling at different rates (and obviously with different signs) over differing time periods. These important details are all lost, obscured, by the State Average.
Bottom Line:
It is not enough to correctly mathematically calculate the average of a data set.
It is not enough to be able to defend the methods your Team uses to calculate the [more-often-abused-than-not] Global Averages of data sets.
Data sets must be homogeneous, physically and logically. They must be data sets of like-with-like, not apples-and-oranges. Data sets, even when averages can be calculated with defensible methods, must have plausible meaning, both physically and logically.
Careful critical thinkers will be on the alert for numbers which, though the results of simple addition and division, are in fact Fruit Salad metrics, with little or no real meaning or with meanings far different than the ones claimed for them.
Great care must be taken before accepting that any number presented as an average actually represents the idea being claimed for it. Averages most often have very narrow applicability, as they obscure the details that often reveal the much-more-important actuality [which is the topic of the next essay in this series].
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Note on LOTI, HadCRUT4, etc.: It is my personal opinion that all combined Land and Sea Surface Temperature metrics, by all their various names, including those represented as indexes, anomalies and ‘predictions of least error’, are just this sort of Fruit Salad average. In physics if not Climate Science, temperature change is an indicator of change in thermal energy of an object (such as of a particular volume of air or sea water). In order to calculate a valid average of mixed air and water temperatures, the data set must first be equal units for equivalent volumes of same material (which automatically excludes all data sets of sea surface skin temperatures, which are volume-less). The temperatures of different volumes of different materials, even air with differing humidity and density, cannot be validly averaged without being converted into a set of temperature-equivalent-units of thermal energy for that material by volume. Air and water (and stone and road surfaces and plowed fields) have much different specific heat capacities thus a 1 °C temperature change of equal volumes of these differing materials represents greatly differing changes in thermal energy. Sea Surface (skin or bulk) Temperatures cannot be averaged with Surface Air Temperatures to produce a physically correct representation claimed as a change in thermal (heat) energy — the two data sets are incommensurable and such averages are Fruit Salad.
And yet, we see every day, these surface temperature metrics represented in exactly that non-physical way — as if they are quantitative proof of increasing or decreasing energy retention of the Earth climate system. This does not mean that correctly measured air temperatures at 2 meters above the surface and surface sea water temperatures (bulk — such as Argo floats at specific depths) cannot tell us something, but we must be very careful in our claims as to what they tell us. Separate averages of these data sets individually are nonetheless still subject to all the pitfalls and qualifications being presented in this series of essays.
Our frequent commenter, Steven Mosher, recently commented that:
“The global temperature exists. It has a precise physical meaning. It’s this meaning that allows us to say…
The LIA was cooler than today…it’s the meaning that allows us to say the day side of the planet is warmer than the nightside…The same meaning that allows us to say Pluto is cooler than earth and mercury is warmer.”
I must say I agree with his statement — and if Climate Scientists would limit its claims for various Global Temperature averages to these three concepts, their claims would be far more scientifically correct.
NB: I do not think it is correct to say “It has a precise physical meaning.” It may have a precise description but what it means for the Earth’s climate is far from certain and does not approach precise by any measure.
I expect opinions may vary on this issue.
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Author’s Comment Policy:
I am always anxious to read your ideas, opinions, and to answer your questions about the subject of the essay, which in this case is Fruit Salad Averages as defined above.
As regular visitors know, I do not respond to Climate Warrior comments from either side of the Great Climate Divide — feel free to leave your mandatory talking points but do not expect a response from me.
I am interested in examples of Fruit Salad Averages from the diverse range of science and engineering fields in which WUWT readers work.
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The physical meaning is very precise. You need to review operationalism. And your fruit salad analogy is bad science and worse philosophy. Please stop that.
The facts are pretty clear.
1 c02 is a ghg.
2. Humans are adding c02 to the atmosphere.
3. GHGS warm the planet.
Notwithstanding the difficultie’s and nuances and technical details we have known this since 1896.
The earth is not flat.
We did land on the moon.
Mosher ==> Climate Warrior tripe, sir. All trivially true, but nearly meaningless to today’s complex climate science world. Please try to do better.
Stick to you lit degree, Mosh, use it for those 2nd hand car sales.
Maths is obviously BEYOND you !!
1. CO2 is a radiative gas. that is used in greenhouses because it promotes plant growth
2. Yes.. Thank goodness, CO2 has been dangerously low for many 100, or 1000s of years. Still more needed.
3. Prove it. !! By actual measurement… you know “science”, not, “climate science”
Earth is nearly spherical, and rotates. Better tell Trenberth et al !!
Mosher,
As usual, you are trivializing a complex system to attempt to appear to be correct.
1 c02 is a ghg.
CO2 behaves as a GHG in a controlled experiment where all other variables are held constant. However, in the real world, all variables are free to change and interact. Therein lies the rub! It is like making the observation that fission of unstable isotopes can lead to a runaway chain reaction and once it starts nothing can stop it. That is ignoring the use of neutron moderators to control the reaction rate in a reactor. The climate system almost certainly has natural negative feedback loops to control the effect of CO2.
2. Humans are adding c02 to the atmosphere.
Yes, but unless it can be demonstrated that in the real world the anthropogenic CO2 has a significant impact, the statement is a non sequitur. You are attempting to assign blame to humans for something that may be trivial in its impact.
3. GHGS warm the planet.
Probably, but what is in dispute is the amount that CO2 is warming Earth. It is a complex, non-linear feedback system that is poorly characterized, and there are some who say that weather and climate are chaotic systems [e.g. IPCC] that cannot be predicted with skill and therefore reliable warming estimates cannot be assigned to anthropogenic CO2. Even allowing for a positive effect, the sensitivity of the climate to CO2 is probably much smaller than generally claimed, as evidenced by the lack of the Earth experiencing a ‘Tipping Point’ in the geologic past when CO2 levels were at least an order of magnitude larger than they are expected to be when we run out of abundant fossil fuels.
It has been my experience that people who are self-educated, or have learned on the job, usually have gaps in their knowledge that they don’t even realize. Thus, they are all too quick to assume an outcome based on their limited knowledge. Certainty is inversely proportional to expertise. That is, the more expert someone truly is, the more likely they are to have reservations about predictions. They are aware of all the things that haven’t been taken into consideration.
Clyde==> “It has been my experience that people who are self-educated, or have learned on the job, usually have gaps in their knowledge that they don’t even realize. Thus, they are all too quick to assume an outcome based on their limited knowledge. Certainty is inversely proportional to expertise. That is, the more expert someone truly is, the more likely they are to have reservations about predictions. They are aware of all the things that haven’t been taken into consideration”.
Thank you!!! This is the exact situation I deal with every single day in my job. As I’m the only non self-taught person in my office, I deal with this so much I fear I am starting to go insane. The certainty with which my “colleagues” spout utter nonsense in lieu of technical explanations often leaves me speechless, and the fact that I’m the only one who realizes this fact leaves me depressed. So finding out that someone else recognizes this simple truth is a minor miracle. I will frame your words above my office desk. Yet another reason WUWT is worth every minute I spend reading it. Thanks again!
Andre,
As I get older, I find that my memory is not as good as it once was. I’m not as quick as I once was. I often struggle to find the right word. However, like a good whiskey that gets better with age, I synthesize all of my important life-observations into a coherent world view that I’m pleased to discover that others recognize as wisdom.
Mosh
The physical meaning is very precise. We all agree on that.
The facts are pretty clear.
1 CO2 is the second most important GHG.
2. Humans are adding H2O and CO2 to the atmosphere.
3. GHGS warm the planet.
4. Any increased H2O condenses and shades the planet
5. The cooling provided by 1 degree of warming and the consequent condensation of H2O is 20 times greater than the warming effect of doubling CO2.
>Notwithstanding the difficultie’s and nuances and technical details we have known this since 1896.
One of the ‘technical details’ to consider is the withdrawal of that paper and the correction published after years of better and wiser experts pointing out fundamental flaws in the theory and his claimed magnitude of warming. And that was before there was any common understanding of the cooling effect of an increase in tropical sea evaporation with increased sea temperatures.
The earth is not flat.
We did land on the moon.
CO2 has little net effect on the temperature of the planet because it is not, by far, the most influential GHG.
Svensmark is correct and deserves the Nobel Prize for Physics.
“One of the ‘technical details’ to consider is the withdrawal of that paper and the correction published”
Making up stuff. There was no withdrawal and no correction. It is here. One of the Angstroms disagreed, but Arrhenius rejected that, and turned out to be right. In 1908
here
“”If the quantity of carbonic acid [ CO2 + H2O → H2CO3 (carbonic acid) ] in the air should sink to one-half its present percentage, the temperature would fall by about 4°; a diminution to one-quarter would reduce the temperature by 8°. On the other hand, any doubling of the percentage of carbon dioxide in the air would raise the temperature of the earth’s surface by 4°; and if the carbon dioxide were increased fourfold, the temperature would rise by 8°.””
1908? Cherry picking!
Check the 1915 papers.
He did give up the defense of his original error.
Doubling the % of CO2 produces nothing like a 4 degrees of warming. But you already knew that.
Arrhenius discounted his original 1895 (not 1896) by more than 50% after being convinced the critics were correct. Yes, he battled gamely, but right from the first publication, his bad math was attacked. In the end he relented.
“Check the 1915 papers”
Can’t find any from Arrhenius. Why don’t you link and quote what he actually said?
Mosher: your ignorance is profound. Since the 1800s, the chart and law has existed which decrees CO2 can’t warm air, and for that matter, neither can ghgs.
There’s no such thing as insulation letting less warming light, reach a light warmed rock,
making the less-light-warmed rock, emit more warming light.
As heartbreaking as it is for you to be told this it’s gonna be true the day you die. It was true the day you were born and has been every day in between.
How in the world you can be so willfully gullible is a matter for – oh that’s right you get paid money to act dumb. Never mind.
I said ghgs can’t warm air, some can: but they most certainly can’t warm the atmosphere overall. They constitute a refractive insulating layer between the rock of the earth and the fire illuminating, and warming it.
By coincide I finished off my daily finite element method studies on the topic of these one dimensional SST data type of problems :
https://twitter.com/Protonice/status/875151996919005185
Kip,
I think you are doing the authors of the papers about the lake temperature a real dis-service using them as an example for the mis-use of averages. Certainly they state the average result in their abstract but then spend the rest of the paper explaining the whole distribution of temperatures changes. They also show the whole distribution of temperatures in their paper. And while for an arbitrary distribution the average does not tell the whole story it is does provide the most information of any moment used to describe the distribution. Hence since space is limited in the abstract of a paper I would expect the authors to state the average and then in the body explain the rest of the distribution.
Germinio: there’s considerable truth in what you say. I’ve not read the underlying paper, but Kip’s analysis indicates that the authors use their puree of fruit metric to establish a trend. When the studied population lacks homogeneity, trend analysis can go wrong.
When the magnitude of the trend is smaller than the uncertainty of the numbers, the trend defaults to zero.
Germinio ==> This essay is not a critique of the paper — I use their paper as an example of the misuse of averages of incommensurable, heterogeneous measurements — Fruit Salad averages.
The paper abstract contains the offense. The Press Release is far worse, as is the AGU presentation. You must actually look at all of these, and the video, to see that their offense is in the USE is an invalid average — a Fruit Salad metric – one that is “physically and logically flawed beyond any use [except for propaganda purposes]. ”
They get credit for the “more scientifically valid findings of the study which show that each lake’s temperature is changing due to local, sometimes even individual, geomorphic and climate causes specific to each lake and casting doubt on the idea of global or regional causes.”
If you’d like to write a full review/critique of the Lakes study, I’d be happy to see it here….but you must include all four elements: the study as published, with all SMs; the AGU Press Release; the AGU video; and the lakes project poster.
Your opinion may very from mine –
but overall, they seem to me to obviously create a scientifically invalid, fruit-salad, average of heterogeneous data to declare global trend purely for propaganda purposes.
Their other findings are interesting.
Kip Hansen ==> Note to me: too many typos in that comment….
..their offense is in the USE of an invalid average …
…Your opinion may vary from mine –
Kip,
I would disagree that the paper mis-uses averages. It uses averages as one part of a set of tools all of which
provide some information. Also more fundamentally your claims about “fruit-salad” averages does not have any precise definition. Take for example your average of the height of all animals in North America. You claim this is flawed because it gives a result that seems wrong to you. However it does highlight an crucial and often forgotten point — most of the earth’s biomass is in the form of small insects and bacteria. Focussing on large and statistically rare animals like bears (or even humans) will lead to bad and incorrect decisions about how best to look after the environment. Thus there is merit in calculating the average height of all animals.
Similarly with regards the temperature trends of lakes, taking the average and width of the distribution would tell you whether or not lakes are in some way homogenous. And looking at the distribution in the paper a surprise might well be how similar the trends are despite initially thinking the lakes are very different.
The question is not whether taking an average is valid but rather how much information about the distribution it gives. It will almost always give you more information about the distribution than any other single number. But it will not tell the whole story and the authors of the lake study do not pretend that it does.
Geronimo ==> Well, if you haven’t seen my point by now, there is no sense continuing.
To me, they purposefully average data about objects that are heterogeneous — which is their own finding — solely for the purpose of making a specific point, not for any scientific purpose but soley as propaganda. This is obvious from the four items linked: the paper, the AGU Poster, the AGU video, and the AGU Press Release.
That to me is misuse.
So, are there pasta salad, tuna salad, and egg salad handlings of data too?
Then can we create another catch phrase to describe the attempted combining of pasta salad, tuna salad and egg salad — a “meta-salad”, maybe?
… salad math, the healthy alternative to fatty math, which would be what? — Langrangians, maybe? — Oh, God, not those ! Talk about giving somebody a heart attack!
By “shrewdness” do you mean skewness? Sometimes autocorrect can be a pain.
And sometimes it’s not autocorrect but a Freudian slip.
And there is the “average” surface temperature of 15C & 288K compared to the ToA 255K at 240 W/m^2 difference of 33C which is explained only by RGHE theory.
To be 33C or not to be 33C
There is a popular fantasy that the earth is 33C warmer with an atmosphere than without due to the radiative greenhouse effect, RGHE and 0.04% atmospheric CO2.
Let’s start at the very beginning, a very good place to start – or so I hear.
The 33C difference is between an alleged average surface temperature of 288K/15C and 255K/-18C, the alleged surface temperature without an atmosphere. Let’s take a closer look.
Just which average surface temperature? The two extremes? (71C + -90C) / 2 = -10C? Or the average of all the real actual (adjusted, homogenized, corrupted) measurements 90% of which are in the US, Canada, Europe and Australia? What about the sea surface? Satellite data? Over thirty years?
Per IPCC AR5 glossary the average land surface temperature is measured 1.5 meters above the ground, but 80% of the land (Africa, Siberia, South America, SE Asia) doesn’t even have reliable weather instrumentation or data.
The average sea surface temperature is a combination of buckets and thermometers, engine cooling intakes, buoys, satellites, etc.
This composite “global” surface average temperature, one number to rule them all, must represent: both lit and dark sides, both poles, oceans, deserts, jungles and a wide range of both land and sea surfaces. The uncertainty band must be YUGE!
The 255K is a theoretical calculation using the S-B ideal BB temperature associated with the 240 W/m^2 radiative balance at the top of the – wait for it – atmosphere, i.e. 100 km.
So what would the earth be like without an atmosphere?
The average solar constant is 1,368 W/m^2 with an S-B BB temperature of 390 K or 17 C higher than the boiling point of water under sea level atmospheric pressure, which would no longer exist. The oceans would boil away removing the giga-tons of pressure that keeps the molten core in place. The molten core would push through the floor flooding the surface with dark magma changing both emissivity and albedo. With no atmosphere a steady rain of meteorites would pulverize the surface to dust same as the moon. The earth would be much like the moon with a similar albedo (0.12) and large swings in surface temperature from lit to dark sides. No clouds, no vegetation, no snow, no ice a completely different albedo, certainly not the current 30%. No molecules means no convection, conduction, latent energy and surface absorption/radiation would be anybody’s guess. Whatever the conditions of the earth would be without an atmosphere, it is most certainly NOT 240 W/m^2 and 255K.
The alleged 33C difference is between a) an average surface temperature composed of thousands of WAGs that must be +/- entire degrees and b) a theoretical temperature calculation 100 km away that cannot even be measured and c) all with an intact and fully functioning atmosphere.
The surface of the earth is warm because the atmosphere provides an insulating blanket, a thermal resistance, no different from the insulation in the ceiling and walls of a house with the temperature differential determined per the equation Q = U * A * dT, simple to verify and demonstrate. (Explains why 250 km thick atmosphere of Venus with twice the irradiance heats surface bigly compared to earth.)
A voltage difference is needed for current to flow through an electrical resistance.
A pressure difference is needed for fluid to flow through a physical resistance.
A temperature difference is needed for energy to flow, i.e. heat, through a thermal resistance.
RGHE upwelling/downwelling/”back” radiation is a fictional anti-thermodynamic non-explanation for the “33C without an atmosphere” phenomenon that doesn’t actually exist.
Nicholas you are right that the earth emits energy in different amounts at different places due to the rotation of the earth and the position relative to the sun and that it is very difficult to actually measure the individual incoming and out going energy.
Nonetheless if you step back and consider the overall picture you could possibly do all the calculations just from one site, wherever you choose.
The amount of incoming energy is well known and majority due to the sun by a very long way.
The temperature at any one spot monitored over a year will generally give a good idea of the temperature for that part of the globe at that altitude, latitude and longitude.
Energy in is known, Energy out is known, basically the same as energy in. The sun has been in place a long time so an equilibrium of sorts is a reality.
There are minor variations due to the redistribution of heat transmitting layers in the oceans and cloud cover.
The maths is pretty clear.
Earth at its size and distance from the sun can only emit the amount of energy out each 24 hours that comes in each 24 hours.
Scientists construct an overall average temp for that 24 hours.
It is a construct.
There is a height at which the (TOA) emmisions out equal those in.
That is the theoretical surface of the planet because we do not have a true, solid, no atmosphere surface.
The actual surface to us with the adjacent layer of air we measure temps in is a subset of the scientific surface.
Re albedo. From the moon fact sheet moon first earth second
Bond albedo 0.11 0.306 0.360
Geometric albedo 0.12 0.434 0.28
Black-body temperature (K) 270.4 254.0 1.065
The moon and earth are at the same distance from the sun.
Hence the surface temp no atmosphere is the same.
If earth had no atmosphere it would increase its albedo to that of the moon.
WHOOPS, formatting error.
Why?
First, the speed of rotation is materially different. For example, as the speed of rotation tends towards infinity, the average surface temperature tends towards that of the warm side. Given the Earth’s rotation one would expect it to be warmer than the moon.
Second, when considering the no atmosphere concept, one should not see the planet as a barren rock, although that would be the outcome. One has to view the position as if it were still a water world, but without the claimed radiative GHE of water vapour in its atmosphere. The planet then has huge energy storage capacitors where solar irradiance is not absorbed at the surface, but rather down at depth between about 2 to 150 metres which gradually heats a huge volume of water before slowly working its way to the surface of the ocean. This has a big impact given the rotation of the planet and enables the planet to warm above that seen on the moon.
Third, even though one leaves aside the radiative GHE of water vapour in the atmosphere, one still has to consider the latent energy entrained within a humid atmosphere. A humid atmosphere gradually heats up, and then releases its energy slowly. Once again, this has a significant impact given the speed of rotation planet.
Finally, one should bear in mind that there is no measurable GHE observed on Mars, notwithstanding that the Martian atmosphere is about 96% CO2, ie., 960,000 ppm. Proponents of AGW say this is because the Martian atmosphere is very slight, it being about 1/206th that of Earth’s.
However, we are led to believe that what is warming Earth is the GHGs in Earth’s atmosphere. If that is so, then one should consider what Earth’s atmosphere would look like if all non GHGs were removed, ie., without any Nitrogen, Oxygen, Argon. When these non GHGs are removed, one is left with an atmosphere of approximately the same density as that of Mars!
In fact, notwithstanding the slight Martian atmosphere, on a molecule for molecule basis there are about 10 times as many molecules of CO2 on Mars (in its atmosphere) than there are CO2 molecules on Earth (in Earth’s atmosphere). IF CO2 is such an effective GHG, given that there are numerically 10 times as many molecules of CO2 in the Martian atmosphere compared to the number found in Earth’s atmosphere, why is no GHE observed on Mars?
Richard,
“First, the speed of rotation is materially different. For example, as the speed of rotation tends towards infinity, the average surface temperature tends towards that of the warm side. Given the Earth’s rotation one would expect it to be warmer than the moon.”
Intuitively that doesn’t sound right. Ratio of time absorbing incoming radiation to the time emitting is constant regardless of rotation rate. Also, the total energy absorbed must equal the total energy emitted, which results in the black body temperature. Total energy absorbed is not a function of rotation speed.
I’m probably wrong, just going on high school physics.
I beg to differ since neither the Moon, nor the Earth are perfect bodies, and therefore do not behave in an ideal fashion, especially where there are lagged responses at work.
Contrary to that depicted in the K&T energy budget cartoon, the oceans absorb solar irradiance at depth, not at the surface, but radiate energy from the surface. The rate of rotation is material with such a set up since it takes time for the energy absorbed at depth to reach the surface from where the energy is radiated. Further, some of the incoming irradiance makes its way downward to depth and goes to heat the deep ocean, rather than simply returning to the surface. Given these processes, the pulsing of incoming irradiance becomes material.
Don;t forget that the rate of rotation of our planet is slowing, a day has slowed from about 4 hours to about 24 hours, and this is one contributory factor as to why the planet is cooling, Born hot, growing cold until such time as the sun begins to expand.
Richard
The surface temperature is a construct. It represents the average temperature of the surface of the object as a whole. Spinning or not spinning. The amount of energy going out per unit time period from whatever sized sphere you choose.
“as the speed of rotation tends towards infinity, the average surface temperature tends towards that of the warm side. ”
No, as the speed of rotation tends towards infinity the surface spends half the time on the dark side and half on the light side
Or to put it accurately the average surface temperature at any latitude becomes the average surface temperature at that latitude day and night.
Computing a GHG effect is not sensible as any atmosphere as we know it would have been tossed into space well before reaching any super fast rotation let alone infinity.
The energy source, the sun, is not producing any more energy to heat the earth. The faster rotatation merely distributes the same heat more evenly over our time perception of 24 hours.
It is distance from the heat source which determines how much an object can heat up by with no atmosphere.
With an atmosphere the amount of heat radiated back into space is the same, GHG selectively take up more of the radiation that would otherwise have hit the surface plus the back radiation in essence heating up that layer they are in. Our surface air temperature is not a true surface of the earth temperature, just an aberration of atmospheric physics.
You state:
But that does not appear to be the case on Mars. As I note, if you actually count the number of molecules of CO2 in the Martian atmosphere, and count the actual number of molecules of CO2 in Earth’s atmosphere, there are 10 times as many molecules of CO2 in the Martian atmosphere.
So this begs the question, why are not all these extra CO2 molecules found in the Martian atmosphere actually “heating up that layer they are in”?
Perhaps you will answer why there does not appear to be any measurable GHE on Mars.
Interesting. So you are claiming that what keeps Earth warm is the non IR absorbing/ non radiative gasses/ the non green house gasses of Nitrogen, Oxygen, Argon in Earth’s atmosphere. You are therefore signed up to the pressure theory espoused by say Ned Nikolov and Karl Zeller (see their recent paper https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/New-Insights-on-the-Physical-Nature-of-the-Atmospheric-Greenhouse-Effect-Deduced-from-an-Empirical-Planetary-Temperature-Model.pdf) rather than the radiative theory
You are stating a law that only applies to perfect absorbers/emitters, perfect blackbodies. This law does not apply to imperfect bodies and that is why Earth is never in equilibrium. The energy budget on this planet never balances, on any time scale, ie., from day to day, from month to month, from year to year etc. It is in constant flux and change, because this planet is not a perfect absorber/emitter; it is not a perfect blackbody.
This demonstrates a deep misunderstanding by you. The reason we can see the bottom of a swimming pool, or in clear oceans, the sea bed at about 200 metres, is to do with the optical absorption of visible light in water. It is what I have mentioned earlier, that, contrary to the K&T energy budget cartoon, solar irradiance is not absorbed at the ocean surface, but rather at a depth of several metres through to a couple of hundred metres (albeit that most solar irradiance is absorbed within the about the top 2 to 15 metre depth range).
In contrast LWIR is almost entirely absorbed in the first 10 vertical microns of the ocean (about 1/5th the thickness of a human hair). In fact due to the omni-directional basis of DWLWIR, it means that over 60% of all DWLWIR is absorbed within about 4 microns (such that it cannot go to heat the oceans, and at most powers evaporation). .
We are very fortunate that the spectrum of solar irradiance is such that it is absorbed over such a large volume of water, since had it been absorbed like LWIR, in the top microns of the oceans, the oceans would have boiled off from the top down aeons ago.
Essentially, we are trying to consider what temperature this planet would have if it had no atmosphere, or had an atmosphere comprising only of non radiative/non GHGs such as Nitrogen, Oxygen, Argon only. When carrying out such a thought experiment, it is necessary to keep materials as nearly the same as possible, so one would not replace the surface with carbon soot, or with high reflective quartz.
One could replace the oceans with some other material that has the same absorptive qualities as does water, ie., largely transparent to solar irradiance so that solar irradiance is absorbed at depth, and substantially opaque to LWIR such that all LWIR is absorbed within the top microns. One could give this notional material the same specific/latent heat characteristics as water, including that involved in a notional phase change etc. This is one of the fundamental components that give this planet a lag and which means that the planet is not a perfect absorber/prefect emitter, ie., not a perfect blackbody.
This planet is very different from the moon, not only in its speed of rotation but also in its constituent components such that one would not expect it to have the same temperature as the moon whether this be without an atmosphere, or with an atmosphere made exclusively from non radiative/non GHGs.
Thanks your comment
Whilst that statement is true, and would be relevant if the planet was a perfect blackbody and was a perfect absorber and a perfect emitter, but it is not. Therein lies the issue.
Further, and materially, the speed of rotation impacts upon both oceanic currents, atmospheric currents and the Coriolis effect. If we had different oceanic currents (eg the slow down of the Gulf Stream and the shutting off thereto) or different atmospheric currents/jet streams, or the Coriolis effect was different, we would have different surface temperatures and hence a different figure for the so called GHE would emerge. If these currents and jets streams were different the amount and distribution of ice at the poles would be different which in turn would impact upon amongst other things the albedo of the planet.
Whilst we may have some grasp on the TOA position, ie., amount of energy received at TOA, and the amount of energy radiated at TOA, thereafter everything goes off the rails. We have no idea what the surface temperature of this planet is, there are NASA papers putting the surface temperature of this planet at about 9 degC and up to about 18 degC. Without accurately knowing the surface temperature of this planet, we cannot ascertain whether the so called GHE is 38degC, 35 degC, 33degC, 28 degc, 25 degC etc.
It is only by chance that we observe the temperatures that we see today. The SST that we observe today, is only partially the product of the radiative budget, but also due to physical processes plate tectonics, ocean basin topography, resultant oceanic currents (in 3 dimensions), and whether the cold temperatures of the deep oceans have come to back to bite.
If the oceans had the same temperature as that observed at SST throughout their volume, we would not have ice ages. But in ice ages the bulk ocean temperature (of about 4 deg C) comes back to bite. This is not in the first instance due to any change in the so called GHE.
If we were to look at this planet during the Holocene Optimum, or in an Ice Age we would come to a different collusion as to the value of the GHE. Don’t forget that this planet has entered Ice Ages with high levels of CO2. The paleo proxy record shows this planet to have warmed with falling levels of CO2 and to have cooled with rising levels of CO2, and without any material change in the TSI.
The fact that our planet is not a perfect blackbody and has lagged responses make it very difficult to get a proper handle on the so called GHE, and it is almost certainly the case that the speed of rotation of this planet has a significant impact on its temperature. This planet is very different to the Moon, and cannot be compared to it.
Re CO2 in mars atmosphere.
Even though there may be more molecules there is very little atmosphere. It is impossible for that little atmosphere to hold much temperature in it even if it is all CO2.
Comparing apples and oranges as per title.
It does not matter if the planet is a perfect black body or not. The heat in must equal the heat out. If it is not a blackbody then some of the heat is reflected, not absorbed and remitted.
All other things being equal the speed of rotation in sensible discussion cannot effect the fact if heat in heat out.
When not equal as you state ie currents change due to faster rotation you are now talking about a differen world to the one we live in.
Yes GHG affect would vary under different conditions. It also varies if you increase the amount of CO2. No one is claiming ECS is an invariant figure.
It is impossible to have a water world with water on the surface and no atmosphere.
The comment about energy radiating from the surface of the ocean only not from depth is also wrong. A trivial proof is that you can see the bottom of a swimming pool. Similarly some energy goes straight from the surface to space hence one can see the continents and oceans from space.
Let me present other facet of mean, median and mode in the sharing of river water among the riparian states [discussed in my 1993 book (available on line) – Incomplete Gamma Model – rainfall probability estimates].
The issue of dispute of Krishna River water sharing: The first Tribunal in 1970s used 78 years data set that was available to him at that time, namely 1894-95 to 1971-72 which was agreed by the three riparian states. Though Justice Brijesh Kumar Tribunal in 2013 has 114 years data series [1894-95 to 2007-08] but used selected data series of 1961-62 to 2007-08 of 47 years only. This was not agreed by Andhra Pradesh State [AP]. The average of 47 years data series is higher than 78 data series by 185 tmc ft.
The Tribunal put forth several subjective, unscientific and illogical arguments without giving scientific reasoning for doing so. The tribunal argued that “They [47 and 78 years data series] do not match hence cannot be integrated”; “Such increase [185 tmc ft] as reflected seems to be quite natural & obvious —“; “The longer the time series [114 years data series], however, greater the chance that it is neither stationary, consistent nor homogeneous”; and “we are of the opinion that 47 years length of the series should be considered sufficient to assess water availability of river. It more than fulfils the minimum requirement of IS Code —“.
The AP rainfall data series since 1871 presented a 132 year cyclic pattern in which 66 years each form part of below & above the average pattern in successive periods, the period prior to 1935 presents below the average pattern [in which 12 years presented excess rainfall and 24 years presented deficit rainfall] and the same is now started from 2001; and from 1935 to 2000 presents above the average pattern [in which 24 years presented excess rainfall and 12 years deficit rainfall]. In such scenarios truncated data sets presents misleading inferences.
The water availability data of 114 years follow the rainfall pattern. That is 78 years and 47 years data sets form part of below and above the average patterns only. Thus the average of 78 years data set is lower than the average of 47 years data set and as well under sine curve pattern [cyclic variation] they both form a continuum. In fact in the below the average period even delta area did not receive its share of 181.2 tmc ft of water even when all the major projects were not ready to use their share of water on many years – the Tribunal presented this data in its report. In the present below the average part, Nagarjunasagar reservoir hasn’t reached to its full capacity on many years.
The accuracy of the minimum expected amounts derived at a given probability level depends up on the representativeness of the data used and the degree of skewness in the data set. When a given data series with least skewness follow normal distribution. To get unbiased estimates of water availability at a given probability level, the data series thus must follow normal distribution. Then such data series are termed as stationary, consistent and homogeneous. The Tribunal did not apply this test. NOAA presented Atlantic storms [tropical storms & Hurricanes] since 1913- to date. The probability data peaks at September 10 between June 1 and November 30.
If the data set follows normal distribution then, the Mean coincides with the median [50% probability value]. In the three data sets of 47, 78 and 114 years, the Mean coincides respectively at 58%, 42% and 48% probability levels. This clearly suggest that 114 years data series is very close to normal distribution with the Mean at the 48% probability level; and the other two are following skewed distribution with 78 years data showing lesser skew over that of 47 years data series.
114 years data is the best data series for probability study over the other two with 47 years data set on the lower side [poor]. This discounts the inferences made by the Tribunal on longer data series and choosing shorter data series of 47 years for the Study.
The Tribunal distributed water at three probability levels among the three riparian states – Maharashtra, Karnataka & AP –, namely: 75%, 65% and 58% [the Mean] using probability curve built by plotting the lowest to the highest values using 47 years data set, a subset of 114 years data series. They are 2130, 2293 & 2578 tmc ft.
On the probability curve built using 114 years data set, for these three water limits the probability levels changed as 75% [fixed], 55% and 41.5% respectively. That means as for as the award is concerned 2578 TMCFT of water is available in 58% of the years but in reality it is available to AP in 41.5% of the years only as 114 years data series cover both better and poor rainfall periods. Similarly, 2293TMCFT of water is available to AP in 55% of the years only in reality but not in 65% of the years.
Though it is a technical issue, this was put in the hands of judiciary with unfettered powers and thus causing distress to one state with biased award to favour another state.
Details are given under the following two:
http://www.thehansindia.com/posts/index/News-Analysis/2016-12-13/Facts-of-Krishna-water-sharing/268463
http://www.thehansindia.com/posts/index/News-Analysis/2016-12-16/Brijesh-panels-partiality-towards-Karnataka/268977
Dr. S. Jeevananda Reddy
Dr. S. Jeevananda Reddy ==> An interesting example, thank you.
It seems the three data sets, of differing lengths, are incommensurable, should not be considered together, as they represent, in order pf length: the near complete precipitation climatic cycle, and two that represent partial cycles, high and low. Have I got this more or less correct?
Depressing to see what can result when a scientific matter has to be decided by the judiciary. Thank you for this comment; it is most interesting.
Kip,
Was your choice of High Blood Pressure versus age a wise choice to illustrate a pure approach to statistics and numbers?
One of the first things to do when looking at a graph is to say “Y is dependent on X. Are the axes the right way around?” You graph supposes that the incidence of HBP is dependent on age. Is age itself an independent variable? Maybe in medical studies it is not, because older patients might have been exposed to drugs now not in use; and younger patients might have been treated with newer drugs that affect HBP, drugs not used on older patients because of their prior treatments being deemed enough. There are also effects of dietary changes, with young patients perhaps enjoying?? fewer deleterious foods that can affect blood pressure. And other lifestyle matters like alcohol, where younger people in general will have consumed less volume so far than older folk; and exercise, with young patients more exposed to the gym during their lifetime than older. Finally, the population of patients is bounded with ages from 0 to 110 or so years, with different numbers of patients in each age bin. Maybe there is a case to select survey patients so that age bins are equally populated, same number of 30-year-olds as 70-year-olds. I note that it is easy to devise arguments against what I am suggesting here, partly depending on what you wish to target with such a study. The overall point is that for demonstration of number factors like average, mean, median etc, there are probably many examples that have no or few complications on the X-axis. You have pointed to some such effects for the Y-axis in your essay.
A good deal of this type of study, as you well know, is concerned with the identification and quantification of extraneous variables. In a simple study they are absent, But not all studies can be simple.
Geoff
Geoff ==> In medical studies, researchers, unable to find specific CAUSES, look for “risk factors” — they are investigating common disease-states to find commonalities that might led them to discover causes or open avenues to treatment.
Certainly, AGE — particularly, advanced age — thus appears as a risk factor for a lot of disease. Cancers almost always have age as a major risk factor in this sense — and the cancer epidemic is often said to be a result of “more old people still alive” — the population is living longer.
The HBP example is simply meant to illustrate the concepts of Mean, Median, and Mode as common types of averages.
Geoff,
Fundamentally, you are pointing out that in a time-series all the interacting or confounding variables may not stay constant. One of the hallmarks of a good scientific laboratory experiment is keeping all variables constant save one. In the real world of observing ‘Nature,’ that is rarely possible. Thus, some assumptions need to be made, such as “Other changes besides the monitored parameter are negligible.” Unfortunately, that is rarely stated explicitly and is probably rarely true. That is one of the serious problems with climatology.
Geoff, he was explaining the meaning of different averages. The graph was purely to illustrate those differences. It was a perfect example for that. Chill.
In fact the example of Mode in the graph is incorrect. Not a good graph to use.
Go easy Geoff. If the scare mongering climate science community observed even half the rigour Kip has introduced we would not even have WUWT.
The mean of 220 VAC = 0. No danger at all!
“Sierra Nevada” means “Nevada Mountains” in Spanish. Thus it is redundant to include “mountains”
Loren ==> Yes, true, not everyone knows that. I am a California boy, so do know it, but don’t expect my readers to know. In our home, they are simply the Sierras. I have hiked Mount Whitney four times, three before I was old enough to drive, from both the west and the east.
Always good to see someone paying close attention!
Here in NY we have the Kaaterskill Creek — which means Kaaters Creek Creek (Kill already means creek, yet Kaaterskill Creek is the official name)
I think a better analogy is apples to pears.
They are similar…but they’re not really the same thing.
Yawrate,
How about liberals to conservatives? They have superficial similarities…but they’re not really the same thing.
Yawrate ==> Apples and pears (and Quince and “asian” pears) are all what are known as POME fruits, members of the plant family Rosaceae, sub-family pomoideae. So, yes, they are similar but not identical. They are similar enough that one could compare the commonalities and discuss the differences.
Apples and Oranges and Bananas are so different that they defy comparison, they are incommensurable — their only common factors being that they are all classified botanically and in the in grocery as Fruits – two of them grow on trees.
Like apples to pineapples or grapes to grapefruit.
Nice “prim-er,” but you left out an important “average,” the three-point estimate or the triangular probability distribution. To work around unavoidable prediction errors because of incorrect assumptions and limited data, petroleum scientists often present predictions as a range of expected values or best estimates.
A mathematically exact formula can be derived to calculate a best estimate from a continuous probability function. In the absence of a large data set of predictions, say, independent global mean temperature anomaly predictions, a good approximation of a best estimate can be calculated from a triangular distribution function (Fig 1). The implication is that the average value of an experiment repeated many times will converge to the best estimate as the number of experiments increases. For a mean global temperature estimate in 2100 (setting aside any “Fruit Salad” issues), the better the definition of the probability distribution, the better the best estimate.
http://imgur.com/a/IUYbR
For the triangular distribution, the area under the curve can be shown to equal the value of (A + B +C)/3, which is the probability weighted average of the function, that is, the expected value or best estimate for the parameter represented by the distribution. Note that for extremely skewed distributions, B would equal C.
A = A low predicted value (a value near the 2.5% percentile of a probability fun
C = A high predicted value (a value near the 97.5% percentile of a probability function.
B = The mode of the probability function (the most frequently occurring value of a probability function. For a normal distribution, mode = mean = best estimate = expected value.)
The triangular distribution is well-suited to analyze the statistical implications of a database of future temperature predictions or any other parameter. For an example of how this “average” can be used in climate science, see
http://www.uh.edu/nsm/earth-atmospheric/people/faculty/tom-bjorklund/
The relevance of a discussion of probability distributions is to focus attention on both tails of a probability function. Climate alarmists continue to debate how high the temperature will rise, which is only one-half of the problem. The probability of lower temperatures is always ignored as well as the likelihood that policies appropriate for the warming case would be diametrically opposite to those appropriate for the cooling case. Under this reality, the damage that would be done by acting based on the wrong premise, a warming or a cooling planet, nullifies the need to take any action until the science is right. If the complete probability function is appropriately considered, the right answer would be to get the science right before promulgating environmental policies.
Regarding the Fruit Salad analogy, I do not find the discussion convincing or, at least, not clear. Using a simple example to graphically illustrate the problem and the likely extent of error might helpful. If you accept that the “Butterfly effect” has merit, whether a sample is over asphalt or over plowed land does not matter. (“Butterfly effect:” A butterfly flapping its wings in South America can affect the weather in Central Park.) The shortcomings of climate science predictions are that the dataset is insufficient, and the physics is the wrong physics. The problem may be insoluble with Newtonian physics.
Mandatory Talking Point
The fundamental problem of the GCMs is not only the database. Many physicists do not accept the premise that global circulation models can adequately describe the earth and the solar system based on classical physics. President Rosenbaum at Caltech recently posited that nature cannot be modeled with classical physics but theoretically might be modeled with quantum physics. Climate models are driven by classical physics. Quantum physics modeling technology is not yet developed and may never be developed adequately to model earth processes.
Tom ==> “For a mean global temperature estimate in 2100 (setting aside any “Fruit Salad” issues), the better the definition of the probability distribution, the better the best estimate. ”
Strictly speaking, there is no possible probability distribution for a future value of an unknown system. There is no way to determine the probabilities from existing data — we cannot predict the future.
I can see that one could take a triangular average of the “predicted” values — but they have no physical meaning. — they are, in effect, imaginary.
I’ll spend some time on your explanation — it is applicable to known probability distribution functions from real data.
Addendum ==> By “unknown system” I mean that the functions and the mechanisms of the system under consideration (Earth’s climate system creating “mean global temperature” ) is not well enough understood to predict effects far in the future from hypothesized changes in parameters.
Besides that immense problem, there is Chaos (which see my series here, here and here.)
The concept is not to predict a value but to predict a reasonable range of values in which the actual value will lie. The goal would be to understand boundary conditions for a prediction and how more data and model changes might narrow the range. My working paper referenced in the comment is a simple example using temperature data. I would be interested in critical replies and ideas. So far, my colleagues have mostly declined to comment. I am not presuming this method is suitable for long-term predictions. I am considering a thought experiment to show that understanding of the climate system might not be required to predict future temperatures. Not ready for prime time.
Tom ==> Thanks for not taking offense — there are so many in Climate Science (and economics) that feel that their maths and stats and trends can actually predict or project the future. So that one sentence attracted my attention.
As I say “I’ll spend some time on your explanation — it is applicable to known probability distribution functions from real data.”
Tom,
I don’t fundamentally disagree with your statement: “The concept is not to predict a value but to predict a reasonable range of values in which the actual value will lie.” However, you haven’t provided a definition of “reasonable.” If the range is so large that the future value may lie between catastrophe and a big yawn, then it isn’t very useful!
I’d suggest that an initial definition would be a range that has utility in preparing for future changes. However, if an attempt is made to predict a single value, provided with a standard deviation, either explicitly, or implied by the number of significant figures, then we have gone a long way towards meeting your suggestion. The standard deviation is something that one rarely sees in climatology data.
Kip Hansen says, “(the cognizanti can skip this bit and jump directly to Fruit Salad).”
Is “cognoscenti” what is being attempted here? Pretty sure “cognizanti” is not a word, but happy to be educated on the matter if I’m wrong.
provoter ==> I have made a pun-like play with words, thus the italics on cognizanti.
A take off on cognizant: adjective having cognizance; aware or informed (of something)
Thanks for paying attention and caring enough about words to notice and comment about it.
Kip:
Thank you for an important post. It cannot be emphasized enough that good science cannot come from poor statistics.
I will take issue with both assertions that “The global temperature exists. It has a precise physical meaning.” Neither is true. If Mosher asserts otherwise, perhaps he will be good enough to tell us what it. As I have said, if a hot coal falls out of my wood stove it is not relevant that the average temperature in
my room is suddenly 500 oF.
It has been asserted that CO2 changes atmospheric energy. If so it would be useful to measure this energy. The measure of energy density of air is enthalpy which is an intensive property. A change in enthalpy of air cannot attributed solely to its temperature, but must include other factors, most noteably water vapor content. Temperature alone measures the energy of the atmosphere about as well as your checking account measures your net worth — relevant, but not the whole story.
https://aea26.wordpress.com/2017/02/23/atmospheric-energy/
As for the “surface waters” study, I gave up reading when I found they did not isolate “dew point”, which in my limited nautical experience is highly important for changing surface water temperature.
While the concept of average can be useful in characterizing variability, many will be surprised to know that “average” and/or “standard deviation” are not needed for comparing samples from variable processes. Much useful statistical work can be done using variations of the Kolmogorov-Smirnov statistical tests, which require only the empirical cumulative distributions. If you are faced with handling highly variable data I recommend understanding how this family of tests functions. It would be interesting to apply these statistics to the Reddy case noted earlier. (I will note that a finite cumulative distribution cannot be differentiated.)
4Kx3,
I don’t recognize your handle, so maybe you missed my article on averages: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/04/23/the-meaning-and-utility-of-averages-as-it-applies-to-climate/
The important point is that I claim that the standard deviation for global temperatures is of the order of 10’s of degrees Fahrenheit! So, while Mosher claims that the average global temperature has a precise value, he overlooks the fact that the range is so large that the number has little practical value. Probably what is more important is whether the claimed changes in climate will increase or decrease (or have no effect!) the range in temperatures. If the Arctic region is warming more rapidly than the global average, then it appears that the future will have a decreased range in temperatures.
In the meantime, I will look up Kolmogorov-Smirnov statistical tests.
Incidentally, it just occurred to me that it is conceivable, with a skewed temperature distribution such as Earth apparently has, that the mean would increase if the annual lows increased, while there might be no change in either the mode or the highest temperatures. Calculating a mean alone is not particularly informative for Earth temperatures. The frequency distribution over time is more informative and the Kolmogorov-Smirnov tests suggested by 4Kx3 might be useful in assessing those changes.
Though the idea of a global average temperature (GAT) could have some meaning, I don’t believe the current incarnations have any whatsoever. In the first place, as far as I can tell, the GISS GAT doesn’t use even one measured temperature in its calculation. Each of the 8,000 equal size grid plates (each almost exactly the size of West Virginia) is assigned a temperature anomaly based on what it would have seen based on a temperature measurement no more than 1,250 km away, according to some obscure statistical correlation. So a temperature measurement that has an error of no less than +/- 0.5 C is used, after “adjustment” for things such as time of day and location, is used to estimate the temperature of a place 1,250 km away, and all of the estimated temperatures are averaged to find a result that is quoted to two decimal places (when no decimal places are warranted).
Let’s take the emotion out of it, and look at a different situation. Let’s say that every day, 3,000 people around the world put a target up on a tree, stand back 25 yards, and fire one pistol shot at the target. Then they measure the distance from the exact center to the bullet hole, and report it to a central repository. That central repository takes all of the reported measurements,adds them together, divides by the total number of measurements, and posts the results as the “global average shooting accuracy.” It is sort of a meaningful number, but has the following characteristics: since it is the average of individual measurements having no connection whatsoever, no amount of averaging can increase the “accuracy” of the number. Accuracy is the difference between the measured and “actual” value. There isn’t, and cannot be, any “actual” value in this case, even though they’re all miss distances.
Further, the existence of measurement bias would call into question even the “accuracy” of the average (and that can have an accuracy). We don’t know whether people are using accurate rulers, or whether they are measuring from the exact target center to the center of the bullet hole or to its edge. And if to the center of the bullet hole, how much error is introduced there (partly a function of bullet caliber, which is not constrained). Any bias won’t be averaged out, and will increase the “error” in a number which really has no meaning to begin with.
This was an excellent article, by the way.
Michael,
And what is the precision of an anomaly that is obtained by subtracting a number, with a standard deviation that is 10s of degrees, from a number, say an annual average, that has a standard deviation of a similar magnitude? Can one really believe that two very imprecise numbers can produce a result that that is two orders of magnitude more precise than any of the original raw temperature measurements?
Michael S. Kelly ==> I like your “shooting accuracy” analogy…..
That was a pleasure to read. A great way to simplify what can be very complicated – statistics. We see the same “apples and oranges” issue in mining in trying to quantify the average grade of an orebody where there are different sampling techniques used. My example maybe a bit closer to Granny Smith apples and Red Delicious apples, but it is well known that data sets derived from different sample types, or even different ages, need to be treated with caution. More often than not these data sets will be mixed, because of cost issues, and a good approximation of average grade is derived, but that takes a lot of skill.
John ==> Thank you for the mining example.
Some reading to explore this further:
1. Savage, S. L., & Markowitz, H. M. (2009). The flaw of averages: Why we underestimate risk in the face of uncertainty. John Wiley & Sons.
2. Google “Doksum shift plot” or function. The change in mean is only meaningful when the shift is uniform. (That’s a technical version of the fruit salad function) (Strict homogeniety is not as important when you have before and after measures on each object. Heterogeniety makes it more informative, as in “how stable is this effect across strata?”)
3. A related variation is the Bland-Altman plot, to show how the shift changes with location. aka a Tukey sum-difference plot of CDF percentiles.
4. Then there are QQ plots, PP plots, parallel coordinate plots and other variations on the same theme.