Desperate Paris Agreement Advocates: The USA is a "Rogue Country", Better Off Out

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

Climate advocates have boasted about physically bullying President Trump, and are hurling vile insults at President Trump and the USA in general, over Trump’s refusal to date to endorse their climate bully pact.

Trump Delays Final Decision On Paris Agreement Until Next Week

28/05/2017 2:11 PM AEST | Updated 28/05/2017 2:11 PM AEST

Sources told HuffPost this month that Trump was leaning toward withdrawing. But since then, world and corporate leaders have increased pressure for the U.S. to remain in the deal. During his first visit to the Vatican this week, Pope Francis gave Trump a 184-page letter on climate change.

In the president’s best-known business book The Art of the Deal, he outlines a strategy for negotiating based on making aggressive opening salvos. Vowing to withdraw could be an initial step toward reworking the Paris Agreement to get what his administration considers more favorable terms.

Pulling out of the agreement could have major economic consequences. The U.S. could lose jobs in a clean energy industry estimated to be worth $6 trillion by 2030. Countries could put a tariff on American-made imports. And investors could sour on the U.S. amid what they see as instability sown by sclerotic regulation of carbon emissions.

The diplomatic ramifications could be worse. Quitting the deal could brand the nation as a rogue country and a “climate pariah” as it loses its seat at the negotiating table on global climate policy. Moreover, the U.S. risks ceding global influence to rival superpower China, which has already promised to support poorer countries’ efforts to adapt to climate change.

“Trump has heard now very clearly from world leaders, CEOs, and even the Pope,” David Waskow, director of international climate policy for the World Resources Institute, told HuffPost by email. “It’s time for him to make the right decision.”

Read more:

The Australian National University, which seems to think “the ends justify the means” when it comes to the climate cause, also joins the growing wave of insults against the USA;

Paris Agreement safer with the US out: Climate observer

ELEANOR HALL: One close observer of international climate negotiations says it would in fact be preferable were President Trump to pull the US out of the Paris Agreement.

Dr Luke Kemp is no climate change denier. He is a lecturer in International Relations and Environmental policy at the Australian National University, and he joined me earlier.

Dr Kemp welcome to The World Today.

LUKE KEMP: Good to be here Eleanor.

ELEANOR HALL: Now European leaders are warning that the US should not abandon the Paris Agreement, but you argue that it would be better for international action on climate if the US were to withdraw. Why?

LUKE KEMP: Well it’s really quite simple, the US as a rogue administration can do much more damage inside of the agreement, than it can do outside of the agreement.

All you’re doing by keeping the US inside of it is gifting greater leverage to a recalcitrant administration.

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This is not the first time greens have called the USA a rogue state to try to get this way. The following from back in November, shortly after Donald Trump won the Presidency;

US will be a ‘rogue state’ if Trump backtracks on climate: UN envoy

Published on 16/12/2016, 9:07am

Former Ireland president Mary Robinson says incoming administration must live up to the country’s commitments or be ostracised

By Ed King

Governments, civil society and faith groups must unite and condemn the US if the incoming Donald Trump administration pulls out of the Paris Agreement and stops climate funds.

That’s the view of Mary Robinson, former president of Ireland, the UN’s envoy for El Nino and La Nina and a long-term advocate of tougher climate policies.

If the Trump administration does not live up to its Paris commitments in whatever way – by increasing emissions, looking for oil or failing to support the Green Climate Fund – it must be called out as a rogue state,” she said.

“It’s just not acceptable: countries came to an agreement in Paris. The situation of the world could be grossly worsened – the window to act is short yet the opportunities there are good.”

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Climate advocates have also suggested that the age of mutual cooperation with the USA is over;

Merkel, After Discordant G-7 Meeting, Is Looking Past Trump


BERLIN — Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany, Europe’s most influential leader, has concluded, after three days of trans-Atlantic meetings, that the United States of President Trump is not the reliable partner her country and the Continent have automatically depended on in the past.

Clearly disappointed with Mr. Trump’s positions on NATO, Russia, climate change and trade, Ms. Merkel said in Munich on Sunday that traditional alliances were no longer as steadfast as they once were and that Europe should pay more attention to its own interests “and really take our fate into our own hands.”

“The times in which we could rely fully on others — they are somewhat over,” Ms. Merkel added, speaking on the campaign trail after a contentious NATO summit meeting in Brussels and a Group of 7 meeting in Italy. “This is what I experienced in the last few days.”

The new French president, Emmanuel Macron, has shown a willingness to work with Germany and to help lead the bloc out of its troubles. And Ms. Merkel sees Germany’s future more and more with the European Union of 27 nations, without Britain after its vote to leave the bloc.

“This seems to be the end of an era, one in which the United States led and Europe followed,” said Ivo H. Daalder, a former United States envoy to NATO who is now the director of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs. “Today, the United States is heading into a direction on key issues that seems diametrically opposite of where Europe is heading. Merkel’s comments are an acknowledgment of that new reality.”

Read more:

The attempt to bully the USA isn’t just verbal; President Macron of France seems to have admitted that he intentionally tried to physically hurt President Trump with his infamous G7 “handshake”.

Mr. Macron told the French news media that his now-famous handshake tussle with Mr. Trump was a deliberate effort to show that he could not be pushed around by the American president. He told the Sunday newspaper Journal du Dimanche that it was “a moment of truth” — designed to show that he is no pushover, and a message for the European Union leadership, as well.

My handshake with him — it wasn’t innocent,” Mr. Macron said. “One must show that you won’t make small concessions, even symbolic ones, but also not over-publicize things, either.”

Read more: Same link as above

Video of the infamous handshake incident

All this in my view demonstrates how toxic and dysfunctional the international political environment has become.

The world is facing real threats, real unstable rogue states actively deploying chemical weapons against their own people, rogue states attempting to acquire long range nuclear capability. The day when terrorists or unstable lunatics acquire the ability to destroy entire Western cities with nuclear bombs may almost be upon us.

But instead of responding to President Trump’s call to pull together, to deal with those real threats, climate advocates hurl insults at the USA and apparently try to physically bully President Trump, to prevent the almost undetectable 0.3C of warming which might occur by the end of the century if the USA withdraws from the job destroying Paris Agreement.

288 thoughts on “Desperate Paris Agreement Advocates: The USA is a "Rogue Country", Better Off Out

  1. Yeah, the US might end up like it did after bailing from the Kyoto Protocols. You know, where we did better in cutting CO2 than most of the nations that signed on to them and were supposedly honoring the deal.

    • News-Flash :

      According to the US Constitution, then-President Barack Obama’s signature on the Paris Climate Agreement cutting CO2 emissions is valid, binding and PERMANENT.
      At least, it is valid, binding and PERMANENT for Barry Soetoro.
      The other 325 million Americans (and all the illegal migrants) can ignore this unsubstantiated nonsense and do as they damm well please.

    • Without the USA money, this nonbinding agreement from Obummer dies quickly, no matter the protests.
      C’est la vie that’s just the way it goes..

      • UNEP Inquiry
        The Financial System We Need
        ‘Aligning The Financial System With Sustainable Development’, Oct., 2015, 112 pages
        Re: The United States
        P.25: U.S Actions, Fiscal Agendas include:
        Tax benefits
        U.S. SEC
        Green bonds
        State level:
        Insurance regulation
        Scroll way down to:
        Appendix III: Collaborating Institutions, worldwide for this UN Document.
        And more at:
        Quite revealing information in this UN Document.

        • And what a fine example of SJW-ing it is, Barbara.
          The UNEP is going to run the entire global economy based on greenies’ notions of sustainability? Give me a break!

      • UNSDSN/UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network
        A Global Initiative For The United Nations, Launched 2012 by UN Secretary-general, Ban Ki-moon
        Leadership Council includes:
        Jose Marie Figueres, Carbon War Room
        James Hansen
        Paul Polman, Unilever
        Jeffery Sachs, Director, UNSDSN
        Andrew Steer, World Resources Institute
        Monsignor Marcello Sanchez Sorondo , Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Vatican
        And others
        Note the word: “Network”

    • loses its seat at the negotiating table
      that is fear mongering. any time the other side tries to use fear to get you to sign, run away. it is a sure sign that it is a terrible deal.
      a good deal is sold on its merits. a bad deal is sold on fear.

      • Loses nothing, but the liability of delivering the funds those other countries are ultimately after.
        Negotiate without my tax dollars and see how that works, and BOOM!
        How is that EU and or other economies doing anyhow for that matter?
        All part of the Agenda 21 plan, which is now Agends 30. Just sayin…… I will pass on the reduction of life style….
        We don’t play for participation trophies here!

      • Economically, the US is the big kahuna. Any deal that deliberately excludes the US id DOA, and they all know it.

      • It’s fascinating, ossqss, how UN environmental program and IPCC stuff always morph into socialism’s SJW-ing, non-sustainable sustainability nonsense, cash to the kleptocracy, control by China, etc.

    • America will become a rogue nation? I have a feeling if America leads, there will be a lot of so-called “rogue nations”. The left is going crazy as their meal ticket is about to be “trimmed”.

  2. The U.S. could lose jobs in a clean energy industry estimated to be worth $6 trillion by 2030
    How much of that “worth” is taxpayer funds doled out to cronies favored companies?

    • Ha ha ha, what a terrible threat! I’m reminded of the scene in “Lenny” where a bullying club owner threatens Lenny Bruce with the infamous “YOU’LL NEVER WORK IN SHOW BUSINESS AGAIN.”
      We’ll save tons of money by losing out on these trillions of dollars worth of “green energy opportunities.”

    • 6 trillion ??? one third our current GDP ? in 14 years ??? good lord what are they smoking ?

      • Dunno—But the chemical output must be far more potent than CO2 — or any other greenhouse gas. Or maybe it’s just a bunch of gasbags sounding off in ways that emulate the sounds that my coffe-makers produces toward the end of its brew cycle.

      • exactly….anyone else see the irony?
        A bunch of low lifes that won’t pay NATO…..are going to pay $6 trillion

      • andrewpattullo
        From my recollection – One third of the US annual GDP is funded by debt. A debt that only grows at an ever increasing rate with no sign of reversal.

      • Ozonebust, I think we borrow closer to 1/3 of the Federal Budget, not GDP. The budget deficit for the past 8 years has banged up from around $600 Billion to around $1 Trillion annually.
        Our credit rating has been dropped. What’s left? Inflation? Devaluation?
        Who gives a shit? Given the vast amounts involved, we own our creditors. Zimbabwe levels of inflation are just not in the cards.

    • “a clean energy industry estimated to be worth $6”
      How much of that was US money in the first place?

    • Consider Tesla and the $7500 per car fed subside, the car that spontaneously can explode by the way if you hit a tree but gets royal media coverage;‘world’s-safest-car’-explodes-bomb
      Worth 40+ billion market value and it only has two years cash at the current burn rate. You can imagine what the solar subsidiary is looking at.
      I’m only using them as the poster child, plenty more are far more leveraged and you bet they all had dreams about the 100 trillion in Paris “costs” which are often in someone’s income sheet projection.
      We’re talking a train wreck when the bubble goes off and you know who will get blamed. Unfair as that may be.

    • If the clean energy industry can really produce $6 trillion worth of jobs on its own without government subsidies or handouts, then it will do just fine without the Paris Agreement in place. But if those jobs can only come at the expense of losing better jobs in the fossil-fuel industry and by being propped up by government spending, then those jobs are not real and we’re much better off without them. There’s no reason to go beyond the research stage to adopt clean energy across the nation until it has proven itself equal to or better than fossil fuels.

    • “The U.S. could lose jobs in a clean energy industry estimated to be worth $6 trillion by 2030”
      and save $100 trillion in court costs and higher taxes.

    • We will be saving $6 trillion in subsidies to bottomless pits of fake green energy, and save our economy at the same time. Obama sold America down the drain for eight years and wants to extend it another twenty.

  3. Sure, kick the US out of Paris, and also all military agreements including NATO. Rogue is rogue is rogue.

    • Why stop with the idiotic Paris “climate” agreement and NATO? How about our leaving the UN, too?

      • If only.
        IMO DJT likes to talk tougher than he acts, perhaps as a negotiating tactic. We’ll see. At least the US might refuse to fund IPCC, along with most climate research, as per Lindzen’s suggestion, but pulling us out of the UN may be too much for which to hope.

      • Chimp, I believe under US law, Donald is required to stop funding the UNFCCC once it recognised Palestine as a state. About time he did it.

    • Angela Merkel’s combined West and East Germany is going to stand alone against a resurgent Russia? And France is their ally? Giggles! How much will be left when America is forced to bail out Europe for the fourth time? [Count the Marshall Plan, ye of little historical knowledge.]
      Maybe Angela can forestall disaster by begging China to invest in European infrastructure, as China is now doing in Third World Countries. Those new coal-fired electric power plants are looking mighty good right now.
      Here is Angela Merkel, leader of a third-rate world power, threatening the U.S. (And The Donald, no less!) with exclusion from idiotic CAGW hamstringing negotiations. No! Don’t hurt me! Don’t throw me into that brier patch!
      Once anyone of normal intelligence bores down to the “consensus” argument, they discern that one is left with speculation and manufactured alarm driven by economic and political self-interest. The President and his people can see through that, and will reject Obama’s idiotic Paris Agreement.

    • It’s not really even bullying, either, it’s browbeating/complaining. Let them complain.

    • Curious that the default behaviour of “Liberals”/”Progressives” who are not getting their way is to hector, bully, threaten and abuse.
      All carrot, no stick.

      • Oops, foiled again!
        That’s all stick, no carrot!
        When oh when this blog software going to get an editing facility – even if it is only for five minutes after you post?

    • Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me. (Just made that up all by myself.)

    • Bob, it is beyond parody that a minor European nation would threaten to block U.S. participation in any negotiation in which the U.S. wanted to participate.
      Global trade negotiations without the U.S.? Yuck, yuck, yuck, and so on forever.
      And China will take America’s place at the table? The mercantilismist China, manipulating its currency and placing into effect systematic trade barriers, is going to lead free-trade negotiations? The militaristic China, building armed islands in international waters, is going to lead peace negotiations? Only the clueless Obama would believe China’s commitments about CO2 emissions. Then again, I’m pretty sure Obama didn’t believe China, but went along in a vain hope to secure his legacy.
      I believe the socialists and their CAGW crowd about as much as I believe in the tooth fairy.

      • China has a serious demographic problem. The one child policy has produced a generation of Little Emperors. We get some of them over here going to school. Way too many of them are just useless. What a contrast with their elders.

  4. Honestly, I was very concerned that Mr. Trump would back track from his campaign promises. Let the Europeans say whatever they want. The Paris agreement is toxic. I have read where some are advocating we stay in to “maintain a place at the table”. We do not need to maintain a conversation that is based on BS.

  5. For us on this side of the debate these attacks are excellent news because they won’t endear themselves to president Trump by attacking him or his country. Besides none of the insults will be worth a hill of beans. Just get on with it and do the deed.

    • Indeed! Worrying about what gets printed on Vox and Huff is about like worrying about what skeeters and bot-flies think about insecticide.

      • Yah, if we stay in all of the sudden they are going to love him right! Tell everyone what great president he is!
        The haters hate that’s what they do, do the right thing and get out let them have their hate, let them eat it.

  6. These silly, silly people are to be ignored and mocked as unmercifully as possible. Anyone that reads a climate data set of more than 400 years in duration will instantly understand that climate change has nothing to do with carbon emissions. Thank you Pres. Trump for noticing.

    • That goes double for the climate record of the past 4000 years, triple for 40,000 years, quadruple for 400,000 years, quintuple for four million years, sextuple for 40 million years, septuble for 400 million years and octuple for four billion years.

      • Chimp
        What a sentence! So many things that appear on WUWT are of linguistic interest.
        Eugene WR Gallun.

      • Eugene,
        Glad you liked it.
        And I hope also the observation that earth’s climate has changed from covered in molten rock to enclosed in frozen water, and everything in between.

    • I respectfully disagree. Climate is influenced by many factors, and CO2 is likely one of them. How much influence the CO2 has, no one knows – except modelers, who can’t yet produce a reliable estimate.

      • Note, though, you cute little monkey, you, 🙂
        that Mr. Ohr was talking about “emissions.” Human CO2 emissions, in view of the climate history of the earth, likely have no meaningful impact on climate shifts.

      • Curious George
        You misuse the word “except”. The line should say — no one knows — including modelers, who can’t yet produce a reliable estimate.
        Eugene WR Gallun

      • CO2 is just very light noise alongside the most prevalent greenhouse gas, water vapor.

      • John of Cloverdale, you probably meant to say the following, but, for clarification for any new readers here:
        The climate models do not mimic CO2-driven warming, for there is, so far as we know, no significant physical CO2-driven warming. Models merely SIMULATE what the coders guess CO2 can do to cause warming.
        As Bob Tisdale’s excellent (now, free!) e book, Climate Models Fail shows, the climate models’ guesses, i.e., simulations, are so wildly wrong, showing so little skill, that they are unfit for purpose.

      • So stated: Curious George May 29, 2017 at 2:42 pm

        I respectfully disagree. Climate is influenced by many factors, and CO2 is likely one of them.

        Shur nuff, Curious George …… iffen you truly believe so.
        And given your belief in the above ”CO2 influence” …. then I hafta assume that you also truly believe that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the 2nd most likely “influence” affecting earth’s climate in both the “short” and the “long term”

      • Be careful Sam, the Pastafarians will beat you into submission with their limp noodle whips

  7. The more the liberals and socialists complain, rant and rave, the more I am sure we are on the right path.

    • Yup. And better, the more they rant and rave, the more they reveal themselves for what they are to people who may not have originally thought themselves Deplorables.

    • Yes indeed! And it helps to remember that the $6Trillion they speak of is all borrowed money-to be turned into subsidies for more expensive power!
      We’d all be better off, literally, if they made $6Trillion in small bills and burned them for their heat energy. That’s how stupid their “clean energy” plan is!

  8. This is going to be fun to watch this coming week as the green’s shrill howling and shrieking goes full throated and hits max volume.
    After decades of their ever-growing climate lies, the climate priests will be out in full force on every major network talkshow and news in the coming days. What DJT is about to do is a full body slam on their socialisy globalist aspirations.
    The priests will be out in force, but their flock is scattered. The president has correctly picked the best time for this. Colleges and universities are out for the summer, families are out more, and many vacations and holiday trips and plans. NKorea is about to go hot. Syria is coming to a critical juncture, and the EU is beset with refugees by the millions, while Poland thumbs their nose at Brussells.
    Still it will be great entertainment.
    Please pass the Popcorn.

  9. Yup. US goes rogue on world–puts US first to Make America Great Again. How dare we scrape off the global leaches? How dare we demand wealthy Germany pay its fair NATO share? How dare we call attention to the fact they haven’t– by a lot? How dare we leave UNFCCC (fastest Pasic exit) because they recognized Palestine s a member nation when 1994 US law says we withdraw from any UN organization that does so–whichnismwhynUS no longer supports UNESCO after 2011. The Horror of it all! Follow ourmown laws; protect our own interests.
    Popcorn futures are limit up because of this observant post.

    • World’s superpower…..goes rogue!!
      …how about world’s landlord is tired of that crap
      Why are we listening to them in the first place…we should be telling them what to do

      • Forrest Gardener —
        far cough — never saw that one before. Nice
        Eugene WR Gallun

      • “World’s Landlord”–I love it! If there’s anybody who knows how to collect the rent, it’s our boy Donnie! ;-))

      • International waters are basically policed for free by the US Navy. Maybe Trump should start charging a fee for this service. And have American ships look the other way while pirates help themselves to the seatrade of deadbeat nations.

      • Dr. Ed,
        True. East Asia uses Gulf oil, not the US. Let East Africa, the Gulf States, Iran, India, Indonesia, SE Asia, the Philippines, the Chinas, Korea and Japan patrol the Indian Ocean and western Pacific. We’ll meet their navies and take over at Midway Island.
        We’ll also meet European navies at the old CHOP Line and African navies at Ascension Island. The world has freeloaded on the US taxpayer’s dime long enough.

    • Rud, I think your fingers move too fast for your keyboard. Either that, or your fingers have “muscle memory” for n’s and m’s (maybe also c’s?).
      No matter: It’s the thoughts that count. And yours are sublime!
      It is true that the U.S., in accordance with U.S. law, quit its funding of UNESCO after 2011 because of its recognition of the Palestinian State as a member State,. Given the lack of funding, UNESCO rescinded the U.S. voting rights in the body.
      The same “lack of influence over an international body’s actions” reasoning as to the Paris Climate Accord non participation was given as the reason to stay in the UNESCO. B.S. They just want our money, noting else. UNESCO lost 25% of its funding, and couldn’t buy off the kleptocracts at the level to which they were accustomed.
      Third World votes dominate UN actions. UN IPCC documents reflect socialist and SJW Third World values and dogma. Even if the U.S. participates, UN documents will always reflect weird social precepts. About the best we ever saw, Kerry drew the line at Paris because our Senate would have cut their nuts.

      • I think your fingers move too fast for your keyboard. Either that, or your fingers have “muscle memory” for n’s and m’s

        And here I was thinking that was a ”cutie” and intentionally stated in support of the non-supporting policy …… and to be read as, …… to wit:
        –whichn ism whyn (the) US no longer supports UNESCO after 2011

  10. If the ‘clean energy industry’ is worthy then the US won’t lose out on anything, because smart businesses in the US will still get involved.
    But, if as seems to be the case, the ‘clean energy industry’ is a huge boondoggle that can’t support itself, then the US will avoid a huge financial lose by not being forced to use inefficient energy sources.
    So it looks to me like if the US pulls out of Paris, we will get the best of both worlds. Our taxpayers and industries won’t be saddled with onerous costs but will still have the opportunity to be involved in promising new technologies.

    • “So it looks to me like if the US pulls out of Paris, we will get the best of both worlds. Our taxpayers and industries won’t be saddled with onerous costs but will still have the opportunity to be involved in promising new technologies.”
      That’s the way it looks to me, too. The U.S. unshackled. That’s the way we like it.

      • As Washington advised us in his Farewell Address, to look to our own business and avoid getting entangled in European affairs. Too often have we ignored his warning, to our cost and sorrow.

      • drednicolson, well Washington knew the desires of self-interested men to align to popular and distant issues. Power and wealth is to be obtained by supporting wealthy patrons. It is not only Russians that wish to affect our policies.

    • Globalists
      Name them … if these ppl aren’t named and then dealt with they will continue to work behind the shadows propping up their puppets … trillions at stake in shaking down the developed nations

    • “The globalists are both terrified and furious.”
      They are that, with good reason.
      Who else picked up on this little gem?
      Ms. Merkel, however, sounded a somewhat bleaker note. “The whole discussion about climate was very difficult, not to say unsatisfactory,” she said. “There’s a situation where it’s six, if you count the European Union, seven, against one.”
      “This is not just any old agreement, but it is a central agreement for shaping globalization,” she said. “There are no signs of whether the U.S. will stay in the Paris accords or not.”
      Not saving the World note, globalisation pure and simple.
      She let the cat right out of the bag there.

      • Well spotted Cat. I just hope DJT shoots this puppy before it gets much older, sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

      • Can some eager young journalist follow up with the next logical question, asking what exactly does she mean by “Globalism?”
        Does she mean that some central group will determine how much energy each and every country gets to expend per year?
        If you control a country’s energy expense, you almost control the country.
        The only thing remaining would be…controlling their population growth…

      • “the German leader said Europe should “take our fate into our own hands.” And how has that worked out in the past?
        If she thinks climate policy is “our fate,” she is one crazy old commie.

      • Where the hell did “… President Trump declined to endorse NATO’s doctrine of collective defense …” occur? Damned lying New York Times.

      • Merkel’s picture reminds me of another infamous German salute to old uncle Adolph
        Sieg Heil Frau Merkel

  11. It is difficult to express how badly trump came over at the recent g7 . He appeared a bully and to be out of his depth. He is in something of a dilemma
    On the one hand he surely needs to deliver on one of his election promises as to date his track record has not been good. On the other hand to withdraw from paris when every other country has signed up might mean the US is seen as an untrustworthy state .
    The art of the deal may work in business but it doesn’t on the Political stage.
    America never ratified Kyoto so presumably they could also step away from Paris but the trouble is that this is a much larger agreement.
    I dont envy trump his choices On the one hand possible damage to American prestige and influence if he withdraws and on the other signing up to something that will break his election pledge and arguably cost America jobs and potentially have an impact on energy costs.

    • Tony, I don’t think he came across badly at G7. I can believe the UK press said so, nd Merkel is pissed because he called out Germany on trade and Nato. He refused to play along on Paris. All good, from here.

      • Rud
        As you can imagine I hold no liking for Angela merkel. Yes, they definitely need to pay more towards NATO.
        We can read and watch what happended at g7 and the related meetings as it was covered extensively on tv and analysed endlessly. That was no way for a president to behave and that comes from someone sympathetic to the idea of someone like trump being needed to ‘drain the swamp’
        First we had pax romana then pax Britannia and we are now in the era of pax Americana. That confers certain obligations and in return invites prestige and a positive benefit for your country by, for example projecting your power overseas through the military, politics, culture and business. That does not mean withdrawing from everything, including as is often mentioned here, NATO and the UN.
        We can all agree that Paris is daft. Whether America would do more harm than good to itself by withdrawing from it is way beyond my pay grade but there will definitely be repercussions.

      • I just saw a political discussion on Trump-Russia contacts on CNN(?). They say there is no fire yet, but a plenty of smoke. That is a nice observation by a smoke generator.

      • TonyB, the coverage here was not quite the same. Art of the Deal on Nato contributions. Progress on trade. No progress on Paris. The Macron handshake thing has gone viral here, as well as Macron’s explanation (he, not Trump, did the extra vigorous extra long shake according to him). Like said, MSM is sculpting perceptions. All this you can check out on the alt internet. Try Daily Caller news.

      • climatereason —
        What you call repercussions i would call the reverberations of progress.
        Eugene WR Gallun

      • Perhaps the next tme they meet, Trump should Sneeze in his hand just before grabbing Macron’s hand then grab it with both hands

      • Gawd, Tony. Do you have any kind of a coherent message? Everyone, just read over his postings.
        President Trump “destroyed” the suck-up G-7 leaders on trade and defense. He also turned their climate agreement nonsense into the nothing-burger it was. Anybody that says the Paris Accord is the linchpin holding nations together deserves the raspberry they get. Climate agreements are nothing more than weak attempts to pull back the stronger economies such that non-competitive economies don’t expire.
        The smaller Western nations and China and India are using the climate accords and anything else they can to hamstring the U.S. politically and economically. Angela Merkel would like to be the big gal on the global block, as she is in the EU. The trouble is, President The Donald has bigger hands than you think. [Dirty little cartoonists want to push the false narrative.]

    • The damage to American prestige and influence if he withdraws
      would be exactly: ZERO.
      1. The EU guys already despise us (they love to toss out “cowboy mentality” and like accolades).
      2. Our influence remains as strong as ever as a unilateral actor on the world stage.

      • Janice
        The ‘eu guys’ do not despise you. They are affronted by trump but do not extend that to all Americans. The donald has set the tectonic plates in motion. Whether you voted for him or not he is a mercurial person at a time when the world needs stability.
        I personally think there are far more mportant things to worry about than climate change and Paris but it is seen as a very big deal by most of the world and it would be unwise to believe there would be no consequences if America withdraws.

      • I personally think there are far more mportant things to worry about than climate change and Paris…
        …and this is the fastest way to bring those things back into focus
        Left up to the EU….they would never talk about it…and have to face the fact they F’ed up

      • Dear Tony,
        Thank you for your kind reassurance that it is only my country and not me that the Germans, et al., sneer at (not that I care — just stating the “cowboy mentality” facts as I’ve heard them).
        (yes, that was a sarcastic sentence — but, I realize that your assurances were truly kindly meant and I sincerely appreciate them — thank you)
        I really (and I think I speak for 90% of Americans) do not care one jar of Nutella what “prestige” America has in the eyes of others. Really do not care. Shrug.
        I believe the consequences are almost 100% positive (for the U.S.) of continuing to stay out of the Paris mess.
        Re: Trump, I most certainly did vote for him. “{H}e is a mercurial strong person at a time when the world needs stability liberty-minded leadership.”
        Bottom line: Hail, Tony, fairminded, keen thinking, subject of the remarkably high-achieving United Kingdom! We shall always be allies — for TRUTH!
        Go, science realism! 🙂
        Very sincerely yours,

      • climatereason, (Tony), Trump only appears mercurial because the press is taking every ambiguity out of context, always focusing on the most negative interpretation, and holding it up as a gotcha.
        In a more loose and fuzzy context he is anything but mercurial. He is leading. You must read the speeches he gave in Saudi Arabia and Israel in their entirety. You cannot count on any media coverage of them to appreciate how path breaking they were. Trump is the first world leader working to help reform Islam and make it compatible with Western civilization. It may not work, but at least he is trying. We now have government approved Saudi journalists calling on the Palestinians to give up their goal of the destruction of Israel. That is ground breaking.
        As far as suffering fools at the G7 meeting, why the fuck should he play nice? These are people who have derided him since he started campaigning and are actively working to undermine him on the world stage while at the same time begging him to accede to their idiotic suicide pacts on immigration and energy. If he didn’t listen to the Italian PM, maybe it’s because he didn’t give a sh!t. What could the Italian PM possibly have said after the insulting behavior of the rest of the G7 leaders toward Trump that could possibly be important? This meeting was between Merkel, Macron, and Trump. No one else mattered. Macron and Merkel’s behavior toward Trump both before and during the meeting set the stage for Trump’s rejection of niceties, not Trump.
        Unfortunately, with 98% of the media united against Trump we don’t get headlines, such as:
        Trump Responds to G7 Insults and Patronizing with Resolve.

      • do not care one jar of Nutella <—- cracked me up!!
        ..and we should follow a bunch of other countries that have F'ed so bad they would be laughing stock in a sane world.
        How are they going to pay any of this without us?….that's what really has them going.
        Won't even pay NATO…which is clearly in their best interest…and now they are going to have to pay $3 trillion all on their own…..that's their figure
        LOL…what a joke!

      • “climatereason, (Tony), Trump only appears mercurial because the press is taking every ambiguity out of context, always focusing on the most negative interpretation, and holding it up as a gotcha.
        In a more loose and fuzzy context he is anything but mercurial. He is leading.”
        I agree, charles. Trump is leading. His “mercurial” personality just led NATO to get involved in fighting the ISIS terrorists; he has NATO agreeing they need to increase their defense spending; and he went right to the heart of the problem of Islamist terrorism and the Israeli/Palestinian problem on his very first foreign trip.
        Trump is a leader and a problem solver and he is going where the problems are.

      • “How are they going to pay any of this without us?….that’s what really has them going.
        Won’t even pay NATO…which is clearly in their best interest”
        And the NATO nations are not really paying anything to NATO per se, they are just increasing their own national defense budgets. The increased money goes to upgrade their own capabilities. They have just been neglecting to do this in the past, depending on the U.S. to take up the slack.
        Trump isn’t going to do that anymore. He will pay the USA’s fair share and expects the other NATO members to do what they agreed to do.
        Despite the complaints, Trump is getting what he wants.
        And it wasn’t just the Big Three (Britain, Germany and France) who were important at that G7 meeting. Trump has a lot of support among the NATO leaders of Eastern Europe. Trump has been bolstering their defenses in Eastern Europe since he took Office, and they appreciate it very much, and no doubt had some good conversations with Trump.

      • And the NATO nations are not really paying anything to NATO per se
        exactly…I just didn’t get into it

      • Climatereason, Tonyb, whatever…
        Most of the world I have traveled does, indeed, despise the USA. They are more than happy to pay lip service to the USA when it’s footing the bill. They are more than happy to stab the USA in the back when they think nobody is watching. Most of the world thinks the average US citizen is an ignorant doofus. If much of Europe wants to call the USA a rogue nation fine, let’em. The next time Europe decides it wants to self destruct, for whatever reason, maybe we should let them.

      • Janice Moore —
        Right On! It is amusing to note that the countries in which America most lacks prestige are North Korea and Iran. Will Germany and the rest of the EU plummet into their orbit?
        Eugene WR Gallun

      • Tony,
        IMO there are very few places where Paris is seen as a big deal. In how many countries does “climate change” rank in the Top Ten concerns of the voting public?
        But even if the rest of the world to a man and a woman rated it Numero Uno, so what?
        Phouque the world and the nag on which it rode in. We don’t need them. Let them butcher themselves as much as they want.
        Europe is already self-destructing, committing demographic suicide and economicide. Saving Europe from itself twice in one century was quite enough, thanks. Your continent is a hopeless mess.

      • Make that three times in one century, ie 1918, 1945 and 1991.
        Europe clearly has a death wish, at least Old Europe does. Eastern Europe might survive as part of Western Civilization.

      • Latitude and Eugene — Thank you for the affirmation!
        [The mods wonder how longitude Eugene’s equator used to be … Butt, they affirm they know what latitude Eugene’s equator is near. .mod]

      • Let’s just take a second to acknowledge that Trump did in fact “listen” to the Italian PM. He just used a different type of earpiece.
        Let’s also acknowledge that 10s of millions of Europeans (and Americans) will continue to believe he did NOT listen to the Italian PM. They will believe this regardless of the truth.
        Just another reason, in a long line of many, they should be ignored.

      • @SMC..
        “The next time Europe decides it wants to self destruct,”
        They are doing it already.
        The renewable spendfest, the Islamic immigration.
        Its not going to end well !

    • The damage to American prestige has been done by the previous administration. It would be difficult to trump it. Still, he can try.

      • The Euro club will keep on bailing Greece – and then Spain…and Italy… until it becomes evident that printing €60,000,000,000 per month is unsupportable.
        The EU is falling apart.
        It won’t be long now.

      • printing €60,000,000,000 per month is unsupportable
        One might say, unsustainable, even, to coin a term.

    • You say:
      “On the other hand to withdraw from paris when every other country has signed up might mean the US is seen as an untrustworthy state .”
      “UNTRUSTWORTHY”??????? Boll*x! USA has underpinned NATO since its inception. These Green-brainwashed Euro-Morons have been living under the U.S. umbrella and now take it for granted. If I were Trump, I’d tell them to look after themselves and “Good riddance!”
      And May (Brit. P.M. had better decide in the next few days (pre-election) which side of the fence is … excsue a ***very, very *** bad pun “greener”. I’d suggest the “non-Green” side before the Brits revolt over the tripling & quadrupling of utility bills, as the Australians are suffering. Her balancing-act is rapidly becoming VERY tenuous … suck-up to the Euro-Green bullies or attend to indolent grannies freezing in the dark / philosophically align with USA or Europe …. (whither Brexit??? what a mess she finds herself in, and no leadership bgeing shown.)
      BTW, I am ex Brit, now Canadian and am never going back to such a bunch of spineless and goofy morionic politicians. Nigel …. WHERE ARE YOU???

      • Give her a break. Might have been different if any other previously sovereign European nation had collected the courage to vote for freedom. But they didn’t. And the gutless cowards never will. Once more unto the breach dear friends.

    • “Possible damage to American prestige and influence”? And just which nation is poised in second position to fill the vacuum? Take all the time you need …

    • This is a laugh “have an impact on energy costs”. You mean like fewer junk solar panels to cleanup down the road? 20 years of pork solar and wind subsidies and combined LOST energy market share. Go read the BP energy report if you don’t believe it. Green energy is proven loser on a cost basis. They’re not even growing share against total carbon largely due to NG growth which is mostly private and real.
      DJT did great over at the pinhead EU meeting. You’re living with alternative facts from the NWO socialists getting their subsidies from America cut. Branch out already!

    • climatereason —
      The main stream press, both foreign and domestic, is anti-Trump. What did you expect they would say? You the man, Mr President? Hahaha!
      Eugene WR Gallun

      • And that’s why Trump most accurately calls them “the enemy of the people”. I’ve been saying this for years and now someone with ultimate clout is saying it openly.
        The MSM is simply an arm of the Democratic party.

    • Why should Trump care what Germans think of him? He was elected by Americans to Make America Great Again. If he wants to get reelected, he’d better be doing that.

    • Tony,
      The Europeans knew exactly what the US Constitution requires of a US President who signs a treaty, Senate ratification or it means nothing in the US to future administrations. Then SecState Kerry explicitly acknowledged this is defining the nin-binding INDCs in the Paris Agreement. Every European and Asain capital knew the game Kerry and Obama were playing with the Paris COP language…. non-binding was the key word, so that Obama would not be forced to submit it to the Senate for a certain ratification graveyard.
      They lost the gamble. They know it. Next time they’ll be wiser and not accept the slick used-car salesman tactics that Obama employed on them with the Paris agreement. They will demand it be a treaty, as they should have from the beginning.

  12. 1 We need to first get our own financial house in order. Before we can start spending any money on this we need to pay off our hughe federal debt: our federal government needs to start posting annual surpluses; and we need to turn our huge annual trade deficits into trade surpluses. Financially we are now a debetor nation and are in no possition to be helping anyone else.
    2.There is no real evidence that the Paris Climate Agreement will hane any effect on climate. From the paleoclimate record and all the work that has been done with climate models, one can conclude that the climate change we are experiencing today is caused by the sun and the oceans over which Mankind has no control. Despite the hype, there is no real evidene that CO2 has any effect on climate and plenty of scientific reasoning to support the idea that the climate sensivity of CO2 is zero. The AGW conjecture is just too full of holes to support it, the biggest of which is that the radiant greenhouse effect upon which the AGW conjecture is based has not been observed on Earth or any planet in our solar system with a thick atmosphere. Without the radiant greenhouse effect, the AGW conjecture is science fiction.

    • So…..About how much effect on the global temperature should be expected when about 120 ppmv of CO2 is added to an atmosphere that already contains in aggregate about 30,000 ppmv greenhouse gas molecules? And whose greenhouse gas content routinely fluctuates by hundreds to thousands of parts per million.
      Bring on the sunshine, bring on the rain — and fog and other stuff.

      • That is right. For those who believe in the radiant greenhouse effect, H2O is the culprit. The Paris Climate agreement will have no significant effect on the total radiant greenhouse effect in the Earth’s atmosphere which is dominated by H2O. But the reality is that the climate sensivity of CO2 is really zero so changing the amount of CO2 in the Earth;s atmosphere will have no effect on global temperature.

    • G6 GDP 15 trillion (ish) … US GDP 18 trillion (ish) and growing … Trump will ignore these ankle biters …

      • Unsure how you count the beans, but I come up with $25T for the G7 minus the USA (at $18T).
        I also count 1.9B population for the G7 minus the USA (at 320M).
        The thought of the G7-USA scraping up $6T to piss away on anything – ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING – is laughable. They all want USA money in the pot so they can haggle over how to divide it up.

    • Janice
      This has nothing to do wth just the EU. Some 195 countries have signed the accord. They may have been unwise to, but those are the facts.
      Will it matter if America does not sign? I dunno, but it is much bigger than the Kyoto protocol and whether pax Americana can survive unscathed from the disapproval of the rest of the world is a moot point

      • This is the equivalent of high school, where a bunch of teens decide to get drunk, drive like maniacs, and hope nothing goes wrong. If you’re smart enough to see where this inevitably leads and walk away, insults are hurled at you loudly. Being smart when everyone else is being stupid is a lonely path, but at least you avoid the giant wreck that occurs from joining the crowd. Maybe not avoid it entirely, but minimize the damage.

      • If the money from the US doesn’t flow those mendicant countries will be very peeved but it won’t be about CO2 it’ll be about money.
        About 150 of those 195 countries don’t care about anything else anyway.

      • Thank you for the correction, Tony.
        Okay, then.
        “U.S.A. @ EU the rest of the Paris deal signers:
        {See above for gif — “Good luck.”}

      • Forrest
        I am no advocate of Paris, I think it is a mad idea. However facts are facts and 195 countries have signed. A good proportion expect to get money, including bizarrely, china. All I am saying is that Paris is seen as a very big deal in the rest of the world and if America pulls out there will be repercussions. How serious they will be I have no idea.

      • A good proportion expect to get money,
        Well of course they do…
        ..the EU being one of them
        The EU can’t afford the EU without us….this is all supposed to be money they could have jiggled around

      • The repercussions from ‘pulling out’ are far less onerous than the repercussions for staying in.
        There really isn’t anything to ‘pull out’ of. Obama did not have the authority to sign that document, therefore it is not legally binding. This is on Obama … not this country, and not on Trump.
        Obama knew he could not convince the Senate to ratify it so, as usual, he tried to go around the law. He knew when he did it that it could be overruled by the next administration, which hopefully, it will be.

      • Isn’t it accurate that the elites in those countries will get the money, not the citizens. Is there anyone who thinks differently or that it will matter at all for the peons?

      • Isn’t it accurate that the elites in those countries will get the money…
        The EU was counting on skimming most of it off…jiggling it around….to pay for the EU

      • The US is the world’s largest economy and the world’s strongest military. What kind of repercussions can there be?
        Will they blacklist the US? Well, guess what? That is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The only countries in the world who can afford to blacklist the US are countries whose economy is already depressed, like North Korea. If you stop dealing with the US, it is economic suicide. Will they attack the US? Again, they cannot afford to because the US won’t trade with a country in which it is at war.
        The only thing they can do is whine and moan and complain. Any more than that, and it will hurt them more than it will hurt the United States. That is why you see them so vocal, that is their only option.

      • The leaders of the countries that signed that pact (including O’bummer) are either liberal elites or trough feeding elites — (China definitely goes into the trough feeding category. You really don’t think they intend to put money into it do you?).
        The real citizens of all those 195 countries could not give a damn what the US does about this.
        Why should the US spend billions and billions and billions to try to win the favor of a few thousand elites world wide who are just going to disparage America anyway — and then demand even more.
        Don’t say 192 countries signed this pact — rather say that a few elites in each of those 192 countries signed the pact.
        Eugene WR Gallun

      • Eugene
        I have never at any time said I agree with the Paris agreement. It is a foolish waste of money and will achieve very little. I am not here to defend the EU as I voted to leave that self serving organisation. I do not know why people here have fixed on them. My point was that some 195 countries had signed, so there is global support. That is doubtless because some fervently believe in the accord whilst many others hope to get some money from it.
        There is a misconception that it will only be Americas money that keeps the accord afloat. However the EU is by far the largest donor, not America
        All I have tried to point out is that should America pull out (or not ratify) there will likely be repercussions, internationally and domestically. Whether these are sporadic or coordinated or serious I do not know. Should that be a factor in the US deliberations? Probably not.

      • Tonyb
        The faster the US gets out of this phony agreement the better.
        Lets not spend $100 billion and not allow a phony treaty that avoided treaty requirements devastate US economy.
        China will gladly pat billions in 30 years unless anything changes including their mind.
        They will gladly pay us in 2047 for billions today.

  13. I could also see a Plan B scenario where Trump says no to Paris, but suggests that he would be open to a conference in Washington, that sees a final renegotiated agreement to replace the flawed Paris Accord. A few of the key details that he may include, is that of the original Sense of the Senate vote in 1997 re: Kyoto where no signatory country on earth is exempt from the same details as any other country (i.e. No free pass for China, India, Russia et al) and that there is no economic damage to the USA. (i.e. The OCED countries are not going to pay welfare to the majority of nations of earth to squander and waste) A ‘Washington Accord’ would be the last chance to get a deal that would be good for every country on earth, including the USA. Everybody pays their own way, and everyone does the same thing. That would at least be a fair deal.
    To quote President Trump here is his direct quote on the 100th day of his presidency.
    Trump, April 29: Our government rushed to join international agreements where the United States pays the costs and bears the burdens while other countries get the benefit and pay nothing. This includes deals like the one-sided Paris climate accord, where the United States pays billions of dollars while China, Russia and India have contributed and will contribute nothing. Does that remind you of the Iran deal? How about that beauty, right? On top of all of that, it’s estimated that full compliance with the agreement could ultimately shrink America’s GDP by $2.5 trillion over a 10-year period. That means factories and plants closing all over our country. Here we go again. Not with me, folks. Those are the facts, whether we like them or not.

    • Furthermore, a ‘Washington Accord’ would not only deal with CO2 by each country independently and by their own pocketbook, but all matters of clean air, clean water and a care of the good Earth that are probably much more important than CO2. With a lot of countries choking on their own garbage and air pollution, you would think this would be the immediate priority.
      It could be paid for by each country reducing its expenditures on military, but that would be included in the deal that the entire planet come together to purge the world of evil in real rogue states so that we are not in a state of perpetual war costing untold treasure and blood, and that the deal include measures that every country on earth engage in market forces to increase trade and commerce in ensuring that the monies saved on ‘swords’ could be reinvested in ‘ploughshares’.

      • Ron Williams —
        Horses are notorious for being led out of a burning barn and then running back into it.
        Eugene WR Gallun

      • Ron Willams —
        You replied –“Horses are also notorious for for being led to to water and refusing to drink.”
        Horses possess “horse sense”. What you imply is water, they recognize as cool aid.
        Eugene WR Gallun

    • He obviously recognizes that Paris comes with threads and strings attached. He knows that Paris will be used to tie America down with ever increasing numbers of little strings and threads like Gulliver was in Lilliput. At first you barely even notice them but as they increase in number and position you suddenly discover your ability to act as you wish is prevented because you didn’t object to each little string.
      I absolutely hope that DJT simply rejects Paris. The Lilliputians of Globalism need to be swatted away by the giant that is America so that she can move forward unimpeded. Not being at the table is a feature not a bug.

    • A fair deal: in the long run, this would help the U.S. out the most.
      Consider: Paris Accord = taking money that could be applied to something productive, and instead applying it to something unproductive.
      If 190 nations all do this, to the same measure, who gets hurt the most? Those with the weakest economies.
      Who gets hurt the least? The strongest economies.
      Once the burden is spread equally, the weak-economy countries are going to realize the impact, and say no. Or, they will handicap themselves more, relative to the U.S.

  14. This was the funniest line I found in there:

    LUKE KEMP: Well it’s really quite simple, the US as a rogue administration can do much more damage inside of the agreement, than it can do outside of the agreement. ….

    That guy actually believes his *clever* little reverse psych technique will work on Donald Trump.

    • If that were true, wouldn’t he want Donald Trump and the US out? Or is he hoping the agreement gets damaged?

      • Kemp is *trying* to trick Trump into thinking, “Well, say, now, Luke. I hadn’t thought of it THAT way. Well! The U.S. WILL agree to be bound by all the leg irons you have ready for us! We’ll show YOU!”
        Kemp is so arrogant he can’t see how stupid he appears.

      • iow: Kemp wants the U.S. in — it is the only hope that piece of junk has of being anything but (as ThomasJK points out below) D.O.A..

    • “*clever* little reverse psych technique”
      Not reverse psychology – he works at the ANU. He really is that stupid.

    • If Luke Kemp were on the Titanic and watching the last lifeboat row away he would say — Good! Now we have the ship to ourselves!
      Eugene WR Gallun

  15. The HuffPo thinks that China will take over the Paris agreement? I needed a laugh. The next time the current Chinese government does something that self-destructive will be the first. The Paris agreement is part virtue signalling and part income transfer to the Third world, and the Chinese have given no indication they are into either.

      • The Paris Deal was a zombie at conception…..We have nothing to lose and much to gain by just taking a hike and leaving the European so-called Union countries to stew in the soup of their own making. Fact is, they need us far more than we need them.

    • I can actually see China trying to do it…..we have absolutely no idea of their finances or what goes on in their country…..they could leverage it to the world’s largest trade deal..and bring everyone else to their knees

      • China will give out lots of loans to all of these countries. They will be happy to finance lots of worthless green initiatives that import Chinese products. The leader of the country will tell the people that great things are being done, making them popular in the short run. Unlike the US, however, the Chinese do start collecting on loans – as some African countries are starting to find out. The leaders of the countries remain in power and get richer, the Chinese end up with all the wealth of the country, and the people remain poor – now with the country’s resources owned by the Chinese.

      • Yep…USA basically withdrew from Africa and the Middle East (amongst others) the last 10 years. And we saw what happened with the Middle East. Now Africa is bought and paid for, and China is moving their peasants there to work cheaper than the native Africans. Be careful what you wish for, when I hear people talking about pulling out of NATO or the UN. Reform it, or risk losing control to our adversaries who like buzzards, will swoop in and run the board. We better really think a lot of this through, before going back to isolation. That was in part, also applicable to both WW1 and WW2.

      • No matter what you may think China is still a developing nation and its wealth is measured out in rice bowls.
        Eugene WR Gallun
        [But one who plans to be able to develop its future wealth for the next few millenniums. .mod]

  16. It’s amazing how much official thought and positions can change when politics (and money) become a driving factor. I experienced this when I happened to watch a 1997 film titled, “Fire Mountain: the Eruption and Rebirth of Mount St. Helens,” a few days ago.
    About 5 minutes into the 1-hour documentary, Cynthia Garner, then a geologist with the USGS, makes her first of many appearances. In this appearance, she establishes the theme of the documentary that, although destructive, volcanoes also have creative, restorative, and regenerative effects on local and the global environments. She says, “It’s also important in terms of the atmosphere, for getting gas from the interior of the Earth up to the surface, providing us with water, carbon dioxide, and sulphur, and other gases that are important for life.
    The entire documentary can seen here:
    The Europeans are looking for a chump to do the heavy lifting and funding. Trump doesn’t like to play he chump, either as himself or as the US.

  17. “During his first visit to the Vatican this week, Pope Francis gave Trump a 184-page letter on climate change.”
    The following finding indicates that the pope’s ability to judge certain types of information correctly might be questionable:
    «Furthermore, both ontological confusions and religious belief were positively correlated with BS receptivity.» (Section: 7 Results; Page 553 )
    Paper: On the reception and detection of pseudo-profound BS
    In the Journal: Judgment and Decision Making, Vol. 10, No. 6, November 2015, pp. 549–563

  18. Breitbart 2015:
    “Where international global warming negotiations are concerned, China – and developing nations like India, which is similarly reluctant to sacrifice economic growth for meaningless green targets – wears the trousers.
    Even if China believed in keeping to emission targets, which it doesn’t, its officials are so corrupt, uninterested and growth-driven they would never police them”.

  19. A few excerpts from George Washington’s Presidential farewell address that seem appropriate.

    ….It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another…
    …As avenues to foreign influence in innumerable ways, such attachments are particularly alarming to the truly enlightened and independent patriot. How many opportunities do they afford to tamper with domestic factions, to practice the arts of seduction, to mislead public opinion, to influence or awe the public councils. Such an attachment of a small or weak towards a great and powerful nation dooms the former to be the satellite of the latter.
    Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government…
    …It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them…

    The whole thing is here.
    Washington could have made himself the first King of The United States. He had the Army in his pocket, so to speak.
    But that would have been a betrayal to what his men fought and died for.
    This Memorial Day in the US, honor and remember those who have died defending what this country is supposed to be.
    Then defend it yourselves as best you can.
    Ditch Paris today.
    Tomorrow the UN.
    (PS I suspect Washington and many other of our Founding Fathers, by their standards, wouldn’t have been bothered in the least at being called a “Rogue Nation”. How could they gain Independence without going rogue?)

  20. Without the United States, i.e. The Treasury of the United States to subsidize the “renewable energy industries in Europe, China and southern hemisphere” and the “Lifestyles of the European and Famous” there is no other source of substantial money. The “agreement” will quickly disintegrate and the “agree-es” will quickly begin warring on themselves, for what residual monies they think are to be had.

    • The whole game really plays out as the tragedy of the commons. NATO is a defense commons, and 23 of the 28 nations (farmers) are “free-riders” or “free-loaders” attempting to use the pasture at no cost. The Paris pact is a climate commons, with about 80% of the nations (farmers) not only wanting to be free-riders, but also wanting the “bigger” (bigly?) farmers to pay for their sheep (development). It is human nature to cheat at this game, and anything considered a “commons” (atmosphere) will play out as a tragedy. This is a fool’s game with predictable outcomes. Nations are better served when considered as private property (sovereign). Good fences make good neighbours! Good neighbours look after each other when need arises (foreign aid).

      • All the US gets out of NATO anymore is the use of Ramstein Air Base and Landstuhl Hospital in Germany. They have proved helpful in prosecuting war in the Near East and Afghanistan. But they’re not vital.
        On my way home to Afghanistan in 2005, our C-17 from Ft. Sill, OK cycled through Labrador and Ramstein. On the way home, I went by C-130 to Dubai, thence by chartered civilian flight to Budapest, thence Ramstein, thence Baltimore, thence by domestic commercial to PDX. So there are alternatives to Germany.

  21. Time for a little levity and irony by the great Randy Newman. I would love to get hold of his crystal ball….


    • 😎
      From what the Paris advocates are saying you’d think quitting Paris would be “dropping the Big One”!
      (I’m sure there a few Bigger Ones we need to drop!)

  22. Follow the money. The most important part of the Paris agreement is to support the “Green Climate Fund”.In other words, the rent seekers want the US to give them lots of money.
    PS. What is a green climate?

  23. Just because others are barking up the same tree does not make it the right tree.
    Apparently, for some people, the understanding of climate change is limited to the discovery that CO2 is a ghg. The fact that CO2 is a ghg just scratches the surface.
    Delve deeper into the science and discover that thermalization and the Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution of molecule energy explain why CO2 does not now, has never had and will never have a significant effect on climate.

    • You think it’s about science Dan. That’s like bringing a knife to a tank battle. This is about geo-politics and how to defang and declaw America and capture all her treasure.
      This stopped being about science a long time ago.

      • I am aware that, for a lot of people, “This stopped being about science a long time ago.” IMO that is sad.
        It appears to me that lots of folks are pretty sure CO2 is not a problem but might be puzzled as to why the ghg CO2 doesn’t cause significant warming. The explanation of why is found a little deeper into the science. Click my name to see what I have found.

  24. “The U.S. could lose jobs in a clean energy industry estimated to be worth $6 trillion by 2030”
    I think they meant to say that Europe/China will lose those jobs. The only jobs the U.S. would lose would be installation of renewable generators, which, of course, actually means a savings in energy costs. Funny how people argue jobs loss as if those salaries were paid by others.

  25. “…Pulling out of the agreement could have major economic consequences. The U.S. could lose jobs in a clean energy industry estimated to be worth $6 trillion by 2030…”
    Aside from the absurdity of the $6 trillion claim…why would this Paris agreement be a necessity for clean energy jobs? How many jobs “could” we lose, and how does that compare to the climate reparations that we’d be paying?

    • More than $26 billion has been spent (or pledged in loan guarantees) since 2009 on DOE Section 1703 projects (taxpayer support for clean energy technologies that are typically unable to obtain conventional private financing) and Section 1705 loan guarantees (for certain renewable energy systems and leading edge biofuels).
      Unfortunately for taxpayers, fewer than 2,300 permanent jobs have been created for all of those billions of dollars, at a {likely potential} cost to taxpayers of more than $11.45 million per job.
      Solar projects generated an especially poor return for taxpayer funding – almost $1 billion of taxpayer dollars were spent on just two now-bankrupt solar companies – Abound and Solyndra – that in the end created no permanent jobs.

      (Source: )
      Moreover, even if one argues that the capital-intensive nature of the industry makes the jobs question not the key issue, it still is a BIG WASTE OF MONEY based on ROI/EROEI.

  26. The rest of the world pretty much has gone nutso about “climate change”, with many just along for the ride in order for the handouts. Now, a “rogue” nation – the US is about to say “no” to the insanity, likely pulling all nations back from the brink.
    You’re welcome, world.

  27. I find it sad that Merkel and some other European members were so naive as to not understand that our Constitution did not allow Obama to sign on to the Paris accord without ratification by the senate, and Obama knew it would not be ratified. Would you sign onto a false commitment with someone who does not have the authority in a company or organization to make the deal. Could they be so stupid?
    Merkel should be mad at Obama for duping her into believing the US commitment was legit? Did she not see the many reports and discussions in the US indicating such a deal had to be submitted for ratification to the US Senate or does she believe anything CNN claims. Or is she so blind sided by her climate change zealotry that she could not think straight.
    Also I find it disappointing that she does not appreciate the fact that were it not for Ronald Reagan and the USA, she would still be living under the Iron rule of Russia, not in a free country as she grew up in East Germany although apparently of privledged parents. Really arrogant of her not to appreciate all the US have done for her. In fact today Germany and western Europe would still be taken over by Russia since the USA is the only deterrent for such takeover given their weak defensive posture and her failure to pay the dues for NATO.
    Finally why would anyone follow the Leader who destroyed their country by taking in 1 Million un-vetted migrants from a war torn community lacking human rights for women and Christians or anyone else who don’t subscribe to their radical version of Islam while resorting to bombing and be-headings.
    Sorry Merkel your arrogant and petty, elite statements are an insult from someone whom we have given so much to over many years. Many do not believe the fake claims associated with Catastrophic Climate Change, you need to learn to respect others scientific views. Finally you need to respect that Trump is our duly elected President according to our Constitution and the people approved of his plan to get out of the illegal Paris accord. Do not insult the American people with secret elite meetings with Obama, it is disrespectful and by now you must acknowledge how he duped you, no reason to be disrespectful of Trump he is keeping an election promise.

    • Interestingly, the Paris Agreement just happened to be formulated in a way (no binding quotas) that allowed Obama to sign it without a ratification. It was discussed at WUWT in some detail.

      • Here’s one of those WUWT comments, just FYI:
        “jstalewski (7:50am today): Circular 175 is not law. Given ad arguendo that Circular 175 along with Japan Whaling Ass’n v. American Cetacean Soc’y make Obama’s actions voidable, not void, this helps President Trump (and also argues against sending it to the Senate for the needless delay of rejecting the Paris deal).
        That is, the Circular 175 argument cuts both ways: it says that, likewise, Trump has the authority to rip it up and throw it into the garbage (where it belongs, imo).
        So, your point is relevant and of interest, but, moot.”
        (me, here: )

      • If what you say is correct, Merkel and others should have known that it was a useless document without teeth, ergo they were duped by Obama; or they never saw the possibility that Hillary would not get elected or any future sane president. No Reason to be mad at Trump, they should be mad at Obama for not executing a document to serve their wishes.

      • That isn’t entirely correct. Yes, it was discussed in WUWT at length. My recollection of the conclusion to those discussions was that it was still a treaty and still needed to be ratified by the US Congress.

        • Hivemind, the one who could have brought the Paris agreement to the Senate was Obama. As Obama did not, any treating of the executive agreement as a treaty now would give it a status it currently does not have. Whether Trump formally denounces Paris or not, his repeal of the Clean Power Plan, the enforcement measure for Paris in the US makes it effectively a dead letter. I think it is bad idea to leave it up to the courts or the Senate.

    • Hmmm. Interesting. Maybe Merkel et al should have recognized that Obama was a rogue president, and his signature was not worth squat on a treaty that was not submitted to and approved by the Senate.

    • “I find it sad that Merkel and some other European members were so naive as to not understand that our Constitution did not allow Obama to sign on to the Paris accord without ratification by the senate, ”
      They aren’t that naive. They were just hoping Obama could slip it through. Had Hillary been elected, it would be fairly smooth sailing for the Paris Agreement.
      We dodged a Big bullet! Thanks Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania, and all the other 62 million+ who voted for Trump!

      • TA May 29, 2017 at 5:27 pm
        ” Thanks Michigan”
        You’re Welcome !
        Also, what some don’t realize is that Mi voters, voted Bernie in the primaries and then “WHAM” voted Trump on election day.
        You’re Welcome !

      • I bet Michigan is going to be getting a lot of favors from Trump for their support. Favors in the form of creating jobs in Michigan. You earned it! 🙂

      • After traditional swing states FL, OH and IA, PA clinched it. MI and WI were icing on the cake.

    • They all know this, Catcracking, they just don’t care. If there’s anything the rest of the world hates, it’s how highly we value our Constitution and how readily we stick to it when the stakes matter.

      • And, if there’s anything the rest of the wold loves, it’s our money (and young soldiers dying o defend them).

    • They knew. There are numerous UN “agreements” that various presidents have signed, but were never sent to the Senate for ratification because it would never pass. As such, the signatures are symbolic, and the UN is generally happy to have that much.
      The Paris agreement felt that if structured properly, they could basically shame future presidents into enforcing it, even if non-binding. They didn’t foresee a president that basically doesn’t give a rat’s ass about their shaming.

  28. I think they mean $6 trillion in US taxpayer funds, including proceeds from a VAT-type carbon tax. It is laughable as an industry impact number with failing firms and tax credits for the rich propping up half of it.

    • That is hilarious. (thanks for pointing it out — when I saw her name, I just skipped over what they wrote about her and never saw that)
      The FUNNY thing is — it is actually TRUE. Just can’t make this stuff up!
      United Nations: Theater of the Absurd!

  29. Time for the “dagger” in the game;
    Metal of Freedom for Dr. Lindzen.
    A call for academic reform to prevent political abuse of “research” as we’ve been subjected to for decades now.
    Withdrawal from UN Climate protocol as Dr. Lindzen and others petitioned for.
    Debunking the endangerment finding of CO2 a “pollutant”.
    Purging all public educational institutions of biased green activist exclusivity. Defunding NPR/PBS as propagandists adjunct to this effort.
    DJT has only focused on safe “economic” talking points which will fail in the longer term. Climate is proxy to vast leftist culture and must be destroyed at the root. It would be good politics as well and completely synergetic to the “fake news” shaming effort.

  30. Meanwhile monetary stimulus to prop up the EU continues and was just affirmed for more time.

    • Keynesian monetary inflation, the original global junk science belief.
      The exact reason another central planning tool, Paris Climate authority model, must die as soon as possible.

      • Keynesian economics works very well. It is just since Whitlam demonstrated the failure when you go past what is economically possible (stagflation, both high unemployment and high inflation). Since then governments have kept the economic lever at max. The result is that you don’t actually get any more benefit from it because you are always living on the edge.

  31. From the article: ” “Today, the United States is heading into a direction on key issues that seems diametrically opposite of where Europe is heading.” – Ivo H. Daalder –
    I fervently hope so.

  32. It’s really hard to find financial commitments other than maybe $100b/year. My guess is that the deadbeats expect Uncle Sugar to pay a big chunk. And that’s why they are so upset about the potential pull out.

  33. If the Trump administration does not live up to its Paris commitments in whatever way – by increasing emissions, looking for oil or failing to support the Green Climate Fund – it must be called out as a rogue state,”
    Fair Enough.
    However, since foreign treaties require the approval of 2/3rd of the Senate, and the Glow-Bull Warming Treaty was NEVER submitted to the Senate – – – why, there is ABSOLUTELY NO COMMITMENT on the part of the US.
    Barry Soetoro DID spray-paint his graffiti tag on something in Paris, but that has no bearing on US treaties or commitments.

      • Only SCOTUS has constitutional authority to exist. All lower federal courts exist solely at the pleasure of Congress and are one signed bill away from being dissolved.

  34. It’s not about climate. It’s about about destroying capitalist free markets, and replacing it with Marxist ideology, and agenda 21, run by the UN as a one world government

  35. A “reliable partner” and “world leader” is EU Socialist code phrases for “It is the responsibility of the United States to pay.” If the U.S. does not pay, someone else gets to step up to the plate to be world payer cum leader. China? Let them. “Leader” means “payer” in Socialist lingo.

  36. Someone show write a book with the title Going Rogue. First line could be Drilll, Baby Drill

  37. Anthony, can I suggest that all those whom believe that the US should withdraw from the Paris Climate agreement email the Whitehouse and say so. President Trump might need your/their support. I’ve done so and I’m from Australia.

  38. I have to laugh when critics of the US’s actions warn that China might take the lead in climate initiatives by offering aid to developing nations. The reality is that the “aid” so far has been funding for over 100 new coal plants in Africa. Meanwhile if the US does pull out, it will have, as some commenters have already mentioned, a similar effect as when it refused to sign the Kyoto Protocol. It didn’t take long before other countries started pulling out also when it became evident, as the US recognized from the outset, that most of the countries couldn’t come close to reaching their targets. Canada and Japan gave up the ghost on Kyoto in 2011 when they realized the cost of compliance exceeded any benefits. Chances are good that we’ll see a similar scenario with Paris even if the US stays in the deal. Since Paris is non-binding, if nations fall short of their commitments, all they have to do is apologize and promise to do better next time since there are no penalties attached. Except the “next times” will probably extend beyond 2050 while taxpayers everywhere carry the main burden.

    • “I have to laugh when critics of the US’s actions warn that China might take the lead in climate initiatives by offering aid to developing nations. ”
      Oh no, someone else might open their wallets! Nevermind, we’re in!

    • Thanks for sharing that video, Bill Illis. I enjoyed watching that.
      Even more, I was riveted to the screen when I watched this, grinning nearly the whole time:
      U.S. (and some others) business leaders exchange signed contracts with Saudi counterparts

      (youtube — President Trump channel)
      … President and CEO, Lockheed Martin…. President of Raytheon …. CEO of General Dynamics ….
      Vice-chairman of General Electric….. Chairman of Dow Chemicals ….. President of Exxon-Mobil ….. President of Honeywell …. President of Boeing…..

  39. Everything I read about this agreement is that it is a real nothingburger. I remember when it was being negotiated and John Kerry had to make changes to it that gutted it in order for Obama to avoid having to get the Senate’s approval.
    What we are seeing isn’t anger over losing the United States’ compliance with the agreement. We are seeing anger over the US daring to walk away from it.

  40. I will give President Trump a pretty wide birth as it relates to his promises, but if he breaks this one, I’m done.

  41. I’m absolutely ecstatic the Left is going all in on the CAGW sc@m.
    Under strict adherence to the scientific method, CAGW is already a disconfirmed hypothesis given the gigantic disparities and duration between CAGW’s hypothetical projections on everything vs. reality ( global temps, Sea Level Rise, CH4 projections, extreme weather incidence, ocean pH, precipitation, Antarctic land ice, global crop yields, etc.,)
    The more the Left pushes this disconfirmed political phenomenon (it’s not a physical one) the bigger the blowback will be when it all crashes and burns within about 7 years. Over the next four years: the AMO & PDO will both be in their respective 30-year cool cycles (global temps ALWAYS fall when this happens), the North Pacific “The Blob” is gone, the current solar cycle is the weakest since 1906 and is quickly approaching its weakest point of the current cycle, the next solar cycle from 2021 will be the weakest since 1790, and the one after that will be the weakest since 1645, and likely the start of 50~100 year Grand Solar Minimum.
    In the US, Leftists have lost 1,200 seats in Local, State and Federal elections, have lost control of the Senate, House and Presidency, and their national power base is the weakest it’s been since the 1920’s.
    Trump has an incredible opportunity this week to hold fast and officially pull out of the Paris Agreement.
    I personally think he’ll capitulate and agree to cut CO2 emissions by a lesser extent than Obama committed to, but lower them none the less….
    The GOP never fails to miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity–to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
    And so it goes…..until, it doesn’t…

  42. The USA became the USA because it was such a “rogue ” nation and in about 300 years became the most powerful , creative nation on earth . Playing along with Europe has done nothing but get USA service men and women drawn into saving Europe’s ass over and over .
    Next time who they going to call ? Certainly not the rogue nation they smirk at .
    I guess all those laggards who don’t even pay their agreed to share of NATO are rouge nations too .
    Who would want a seat at any table with countries that live off the security contributions of USA tax payers ?
    What would NATO look like if the USA made a percentage contribution of
    Canada for example . Why are the under payers at “the table ” at all ?
    They claim to be so keen to finance a massive tax payer funded fraud to control the earths thermostat yet won’t pay for their citizens security . Sad . Why would the USA want to sit with such losers .

    • And look how well it turned out after the U.S. “led from behind.”
      Screw all the socialists, commies, and anti-Americans. If you don’t like America, just do without us the next crisis. I’m sure Angela will deflect the rapists.

  43. Based on those comments in the story, Trump’s best course is the submit the Paris Accords to the Senate

  44. For all the billions of pages of bloviating in the press about climate, I NEVER read about real temperature data and their relation to emissions. Argument from authority after argument from authority interrupted only by speculation passing as facts. And in all those billions of pages NOWHERE will I read a cost benefit analysis of actions they claim we must take.
    I would have thought eventually one of these brain dead journalists would try to use facts and arguments to persuade me and then discover how flimsy the AGW case really is. But it appears they are even too lazy to try to convince anyone they are right.
    Journalism is dead.

    • But you DO have cost-benefit analyses, Dave.
      Just look at the 300-year projections for determining the EPA’s U.S. Social Cost of Carbon (SCC) estimates. While the benefits of carbon (CO2) are estimated to be positive until close to the end of the 21st Century, extrapolating with our climate and econometric models beyond the year 2100 AD leads to net economic harms related to man’s CO2 production, if we look out to 2300 AD.
      How in the world could you argue against a consensus based on such science?

  45. The point I have not seen reported and the thing literally everyone seems to have missed is the Paris agreement requires at least 55% of the World emissions to be covered for it to go into effect. USA is 20% and the original signups only represented 80% …. 80%-20% = 60%. So it brings the whole Paris agreement to the edge of failing if more small countries don’t ratify. If the USA pulls out you need countries like Russia (7.5%) and Iran (1.3%) to make up the shortfall and they have not ratified the agreement.
    The status is pretty up todate in Wikipedia including the percentages
    USA pulling out of the Paris agreement could well lead to the death of the Paris agreement under it’s own instrument of creation.

  46. Clearly the AGW advocacy is comprised, to an enormous extent, of self-serving activists who profit materially from its continuation and growth. No surprise there. The (sobering) surprise is the size of the movement, even though it does not have a ‘defensible’ scientific leg to stand on, and how entrenched it has become in such a short time. It appears that the scientific community’s meekness; it’s unwillingness to stand up and (ethically) defend the honesty inherent in the scientific principle, has allowed this to happen. Big job to reestablish the missing integrity.

    • Oh, very good! I’d not heard of that story. Good for LBJ! Anything that embarrasses the French is a good thing.
      Almost as good as the recent response by SecDef Mattis to the inane question, “what keeps you awake at night?”
      His answer: “Nothing. I keep other people awake at night.”

    • Anybody that doesn’t understand America’s exceptionalism will, in ignorance, become part of world socialism’s work to bring down human advancement around the globe.
      Socialists like Merkel do not want humans to direct their own lives. The (East) German state must direct human activities. They hate America; the collectivist must rule.

  47. The degenerates of Western Europe are allowing their cultures to be destroyed and their women raped and their children murdered. Instead they are angry because our President disagrees with them about the “climate”. The current international system really is sick and dysfunctional.

  48. The NOAA annual measurement conference this week , , opened with a painfully stupid keynote by Richard Alley on how the ice sheets might melt and sea level sneak up on us like a black swan devastating the coasts ala Katrina .
    The strength of ego Trump must muster to stand up against the global statist establishment to reject Paris and the entire self serving religion behind it is awesome .
    Of course they hate him . They literally would assassinate him if they could .

    • NOAA, who just declared their number of predicted tropical storms for the 2017 Atlantic hurricane season, of 11-17, to be “above average,” while admitting average is 12?

  49. “LUKE KEMP: Well it’s really quite simple, the US as a rogue administration can do much more damage inside of the agreement, than it can do outside of the agreement.”
    I think that would be the only reason Trump would decide to keep the US within the agreement. There’s still a chance he might go in that direction…something to think about.

    • “An unlimited market, Mr. Rearden?” the purchasing manager asked dryly.
      Rearden glanced up at him. “I guess I’m not smart enough to make the sort
      of deals needed nowadays,” he said, in answer to the unspoken thoughts that
      hung across his desk.
      The purchasing manager shook his head. “No, Mr. Rearden, it’s one or the
      other. The same kind of brain can’t do both. Either you’re good at running
      the mills or you’re good at running to Washington.”
      “Maybe I ought to learn their method.”
      “You couldn’t learn it and it wouldn’t do you any good. You wouldn’t win
      in any of those deals. Don’t you understand? You’re the one who’s got
      something to be looted.”

  50. Who would have thought that Professor James Hansen and President Trump would agree that the Paris Agreement was a” fraud” and a “farce”?

  51. Screw them let them use thier brownshirt Nazi tactics we will remember them the next time they need help. No to the Paris climate agreement with drawl totally.

  52. The USA can put trade bans on countries too in retaliation for their mindless tariffs. Then the USA can create jobs making the products the criminal multinational corporations moved to tax haven jurisdictions.

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