Claim: Pope will Convert President Trump to Climate Action

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

Monsignor Marcelo Sanchez, Chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, has claimed in an interview that Pope Francis will “convince” President Trump to take action climate change during their scheduled meeting on May 24th.

Pope to convince Trump on climate change, Sorondo tells ANSA

‘Oil companies rallied against pope’s encyclical’

(ANSA) – Vatican City, May 15 – Chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences and the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences Monsignor Marcelo Sanchez told ANSA in an interview that he believes the Pope will convince US President Donald Trump to change his mind on climate change. Pope Francis dedicated his ‘Laudato Si’ encyclical to climate change and will be meeting with Donald Trump on May 24, who has signed an executive order dismantling Obama-era environmental legislation.

In the eyes of Sanchez Sorondo, the choices adopted on climate by Trump “are against science, even before being against what the Pope says. In the election campaign he even said it was a Chinese invention to criticize America. But this president has already changed about several things, so perhaps on this as well”.

He added that “today the Chinese are actually very collaborative as concerns the commitments they took on climate with the Paris Climate Conference (the Conference of the Parties, or COP2)”.

The Argentinian bishop, who spoke last week at the University of the Holy Cross at an event marking the two-year anniversary of the Pope’s encyclical, said that “when he was preparing the ‘Laudato Si’, oil lobbies did everything in their power to prevent the Pope from saying what he did, meaning that climate change is caused by human activity that employ fossil fuels.

Perhaps the oil companies wanted a ‘light’ encyclical’ – a romantic one on nature that wouldn’t say anything at all.

Instead, the Pope followed what the scientific community says.

If the president does not follow science, then that is the president’s problem.” On his opinion that the Pope will manage to “convince” Donald Trump, Sorondo said that “they will come to an agreement, since the president claims to be a Christian, and so he will listen to him.”

Read more: http://www.ansa.it/english/news/2017/05/15/pope-to-convince-trump-on-climate-change-sorondo-tells-ansa_f3ee22ae-7b9d-4158-a922-d1710faf9b92.html

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258 thoughts on “Claim: Pope will Convert President Trump to Climate Action

    • The Chinese manipulate currency the same way everyone else does. By buying US bonds.
      Of course if they stopped buying US bonds, our economy would collapse.

      • And Trump said the Chinese had stopped manipulating their currency. He said this on more than one occasion, the last time just a few weeks ago when he was explaining how the Chinese were helping the U.S. with North Korea, yet the Left still expects Trump to denounce the Chinese even though they are not currently doing currency manipulation.

        I heard one pundit say the Chinese stopped manipulating their currency in November 2016, right after Trump was elected.

        The Left doesn’t care if China is declared a currency manipulator, all they care about is portraying Trump as going back on his promise. It’s character assassination they care about, and it’s the Left’s sole focus.

      • It was also that Trump was willing to tie trade issues with China to China’s actions on North Korea, something not previously done.

      • And let me just comment on this new Leftwing attack-Trump meme, that Trump is slamming the naming of a Special Counsel as “the greatest witch hunt in history”.

        Trump is not slamming the Special Counsel, since the Special Counsel has not made one move on this issue, what Trump is slamming is the “witch hunt” process of all the lies and half-truths by the MSM and the Left that led up to appointing a Special Counsel.

        Of course, the Left, and some idiots on Fox News are interpreting this as Trump disparaging the Special Counsel. More half-truths and dishonest spin on the part of the MSM and the Left and the credulous folks at Fox News who seem to just hang on every meme the Leftwing MSM puts out. If the MSM says it, some on Fox believe it, which just goes to show the influence the MSM has over everyone. The MSM is the equivalent of a snake charmer to some people. A lot of people.

      • Trump should ask the DOJ to indict Comey for perjury. Either he lied about nobody asking to not investigate Flynn or he lied about Trump asking to not investigate Flynn. One way or the other, he lied and should be held accountable.

        As for the Pope, on church matters, he is infallible. On everything else, once he opens his mouth, he is fair game for criticism. I suggest that President Trump should muse on Twitter that, “I thought church doctrine was to help relieve the suffering of poor people around the world. And yet, the Pope is advocating continuing the energy poverty of billions of poor people – he apparently is OK with tens of millions of premature deaths and lives in squalor emanating from his preferred policy on Global Warming.”

    • AndyL – remember Trump starts at the furthest negotiating stance from his final goal. Claiming that the Chinese are currency manipulators put them on notice. You and I have no idea what Trump’s final negotiating position was, but I can guarantee he got everything he, and hence the US of A wanted. So to switch your snarky comment to how it is in reality ” It took the Chinese 10 minutes to agree to everything Trump wanted out of them” There, fixed it for you.

      • So what was it that Trump wanted out of them?
        Oh yes, approval for his family trademarks throughout China

      • Try assistance in controling North Korea and their development of ICBMs an small nukes.

    • Well makes no difference anyway. Those RINO deadbeats in the Congress, can’t get anything done any how, so It doesn’t seem to matter what President Trump does.

      In any case the Democrats, and CNN are still trying to identify who was that one out of the 435 Electoral College electors who alleges that (S)he was told by the Russians to vote which ever way it was they were rigging our election.

      Not one person has been identified as having claimed that the Russians rigged the USA elections.

      And the F**Bunch of Idiots, haven’t found a thing. Well it has been proved that a crime was committed. A spokes person for the former administration claimed on TV news that they spied on American Citizens all the time; a sort of investigative collateral damage. And they also admitted giving the names of some of those citizens to the media, which is a year in the Federal Pen for each instance.

      And that same F**BI hasn’t arrested anyone yet.

      Good luck Popei !

      G

      • You’d think the Pope would try to convert President Trump to Catholicism, but apparently the Pope is more vested in another religion: Climate Change!

      • Rocky: All evidence says the Pope is far more interested in climate change than in God. This is the most Godless Pope I can remember. To be honest, I’m shocked anytime he makes reference to a deity outside of socialism and income redistribution under the guise of climate change.

    • The Poop would be the first person that I would go to to understand complex science issues. Just like I rely on Hollywood celebrities to make sense out of a confusing world.

      • Since admitting the Church got it all wrong about Galileo (over 350 years too late for him), past Poops have wisely avoided commenting on science. Just shows how deeply unwise is this Communist Poop.

      • Have you ever noticed the similarities? (rhetorical question, of course) The immaculate conception of climate models and the infallibility of climate scientists.

      • I have, as have many others.

        The many points of similarity between the CACA faith and Christianity and other belief systems are glaring.

  1. When any activist demands action on “climate change” that converges far more towards imposing socialism than towards improving the environment we know all we need to about the the goal of their activism.

    As for me, I think that only a fool would deny that less than 25,000 years ago northern Illinois was under a mile of glacial ice, less than 12,000 years ago large mammals were flash-frozen in Siberia, some with fresh flowers still in their mouths, and less than 1,000 years ago vikings were harvesting fields of barley in Greenland. Only a fool would insist that the climate does not change. The key question that very few seem to be concerned about is this: to what extent is current human activity harming the biosphere? A related question is: does it harm the biosphere when current levels of CO2 lead to higher levels of forestation and a 15% higher yield of grain crops?

    • Good comment, even elegant, buckwheaton. Historically, Popes have a very poor track record in regards to “consensus science”. My favorite was condemning Newton for dividing by 0 during the time he was developing Calculus

      • Didn’t the pope ask Galileo why he was denying the consensus of 97% of scientists that the sun revolved around the earth?

    • When any activist demands action on “climate change” that converges far more towards imposing socialism than towards improving the environment we know all we need to about the the goal of their activism.

      YUP, and the two activists denoted by the above commentary, are Pope Francis and Monsignor Sorondo, ……. to wit:

      So sayith Monsignor Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo …..

      On his opinion that the Pope will manage to “convince” Donald Trump, Sorondo said that “they will come to an agreement, since the president claims to be a Christian, and so he will listen to him.”

      I really don’t think that President Trump would permit the “religious beliefs” of a Catholic Priest to have any effect whatsoever on his decisions regarding the “science of the natural world”.

      “DUH”, …..“religious beliefs” should never, ever “trump” actual factual science knowledge and/or evidence.

      And don’tja be fergettin, ……Pope Francis was born, raised, nurtured, educated and lived in Argentina prior to being “voted in” as the Leader and Pope of the Roman Catholic Church.

      So, only those persons who want the US’s socio-economic status to plunge into the “cesspool of misery” like Argentina is now experiencing, should pay attention to what Pope Francis says, suggests or recommends.

  2. I note also President Macron has appointed a leading environmentalist to his cabinet to drive France’s efforts to fighting climate change and rolling out more renewables/less nuclear; plus the new Korean President is closing down coal plants with a view to removing them in the future.

    Outside the US, the support for climate science and renewables increases…

    • Griff,
      You’re delusional.
      Except for a failing Europe and a few morons in S.A., the rest of the world is either too poor or too intelligent to accept economy killing unreliable grid power. They talk the talk and do the opposite.
      This from a guy who depends on off grid solar power.

    • Oh Griff, the never-ending distributor of unbiased and complete truth. Tell us the WHOLE story Griff, not just the little piece of it you want us to read…….

      http://tinyurl.com/kdznz6t

      “…..That’s why, on his fifth day in power, Moon has announced that the country will temporarily shutter 10 coal power plants now and will shut them down completely within his five-year term…..
      …..
      …..
      Nuclear power’s contribution to South Korea’s mix has fallen from 40% to 30% over the last 10 years, as plants have been decommissioned over safety issues. To make up for the fall, the contribution of coal has shot up to 40% (paywall). The country operates 53 coal-power plants, and plans to build another 20 in the next five years……”

      So lets see Griff. Shut down ten coal plants and build 20 more. Ummmm….that adds up to a net gain of 10 coal plants, does it not Griff? Still don’t see coal going away anytime soon as a global energy source.

      Still trying to understand why people like you behave the way you do.

      • BTW Griff, you DO know that coal is needed to make the steel for wind turbines, don’t you? And the concrete bases put out CO2?

      • “So lets see Griff. Shut down ten coal plants and build 20 more. Ummmm…”

        Moon said the additional plants are “under review”. So we don’t really know if they will get built.

      • @ReallySkeptical: In the Korea Herald piece, Pres Moon didn’t exactly say he would review ALL of them:

        “…..His energy policy pledges included permanently closing old coal-fired plants within his five-year term while reassessing plans to construct nine new plants.
        …….
        …….
        “If construction on a coal-fired power plant is less than 10 percent completed, I will review the project after taking leadership of the country…….”.

        He also said that South Korea will build “renewable” natural gas plants (whatever that means). It also said that renewable energy (which probably means wind and solar) only provides 2% of South Korea’s electricity. Yet again more evidence that wind and solar aren’t exactly taking over the world.

        The Quartz article also stated that Koreans believe much of their air quality problem actually blows in from China rather than being home grown.

      • “Ummmm….that adds up to a net gain of 10 coal plants, does it not Griff?”

        Don’t expect Griff to do higher math, CD. It’s beyond his pay grade.

    • Outside the US, the support for climate science and renewables increases…
      _______________________________________

      Griff, the topic is “the pope convincing decision makers” so it’s more about

      “increase the support for ‘climate and renewables believes'”

    • The laws of physics don’t give a damn what anyone “supports.”
      Unfeasible things remain unfeasible.

    • “Griff May 18, 2017 at 6:48 am

      I note also President Macron has appointed a leading environmentalist to his cabinet to drive France’s efforts to fighting climate change and rolling out more renewables/less nuclear; plus the new Korean President is closing down coal plants with a view to removing them in the future.”

      giffiepoo engorgio proboscis:

      More fake news?
      News that accomplishes net minus zero on the global climate hostage shakedown?

      “giffiepoo engorgio stuffed to it’s brown eyes. Outside the US, the support for climate science and renewables increases”…

      Words and claims account for nothing.
      After all, the alarmist have been inventing their climate crap for thirty years.

      All that time mouthing off without uttering any words of truth; all fake puffery and pretend grandscamming.

    • You’ve correctly reported actions being taken on Fake Science, Griff.

      That doesn’t change the fact that Global Warming is just as fake as ever.

      By the way–should the US provide food aide to a country unwilling to burn coal that fertilizes the very plants from which they produce food?

      (Sounds as crazy as your argument, but then….)

    • In Griff’s world, if a politician makes a commitment to reducing global warming, this proves CO2 is going to kill us all.

      • “Griffin is a humanoid being that can see and live in all possible futures and realities.”

        Griff is very confused and has begun to accept his fantasy … if he says or “sees” it, it is reality.

    • As others have said, good, let them destroy their countries. I bet you were one of those kids when your mother asked “If everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you?” that your answer was “YES, everyone CAN’T be wrong.” Since you’re still here, my guess is you managed to avoid a physical cliff scenario and instead adopted global warming as your own personal cliff. One day you may yet run into the physical cliff and the rest of the lemming pack hurtling themselves toward the edge. The outcome will not be pleasant. Learning the majority can be wrong rarely is to the true believer.

      • If a politician held a press conference during which he declared that 97% of scientists have declared that jumping off cliffs is not only safe, but good for the environment.
        Griff would be the first to declare that anyone who refused to jump off a cliff was anti-science.

      • Sheri,

        ” If everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you?” that your answer was “YES, everyone CAN’T be wrong ” –

        always memorizing ” when trafficlights are red and everyone stops the car would you ?”
        ____________________________________

        Again the dilemma civil courage / social agreement:

        otherwise you are expelled and live your social live with the animals in the taiga.

    • Griff, mate,

      I’m sorry, and I don’t mean to appear rude, but you are full of crap.

      Here’s the evidence from the UN. Internationally, climate change comes last (behind internet access) in 16 measures of things people judge vital in their lives.

      http://data.myworld2015.org

    • Griff, why don’t you trot on over to JudithCurry’s site and check out the post on the Ercot Grid model by Peter Davies: ‘Electricity in Texas: is 100% renewables feasible? Part I’. You can even download the model and play with it. Part 1 excludes any consideration of costs but you can find the appropriate data on the net for just about any place in the world and check out just how much renewable generation can be successfully integrated into an electric grid (excluding costs). It’s very enlightening.

    • Griff: outside the US, support for climate science is the path to more socialist theft, too. The Americans who INVENTED the SCAM when Hansen made FAKE programs that claimed to calculate the temperature of the atmosphere, without using the proper law of thermodynamics for compressible-fluids phase matter – we caught on to what was going on and are now mocking the socio-criminopaths (like you) who thought it was really possible

      to wrap insulation around a rock
      and make more light leak back out of it
      by letting less ever leak into it.

      Tell us all that story again Griff they way they told it to you:

      As more and more refractive, insulating media
      is suspended in the frigid, turbulent compressed fluid bath of the atmosphere
      letting less and less energy get to the earth,
      the gases making less and less energy reach earth,
      are making more and more energy leak out of it.

      Yeah that makes about as much sense as Michael Mann’s fake hockey stick or Hansen’s fake Stefan-Boltzmann math where he refused to do the density calculations for compressed fluids,

      and when his temperature calculations came up 33 degrees short of REALITY

      he started squealing he had discovered magical gais, whut makes the sky git hot if’n yew yewz fire.

  3. He won’t have time, I guess :(. As expected, and to my pity concerning climate, Trump in not prepared for the task, is not even mentally stable, and it will be ditched quickly to avoid major damage.

      • Hopefully not. The smoke and mirrors only work if it keeps the focus on the political fluff so no one notices how many regulations, etc are being ripped from the books. Let us hope the media continues following the smoke and mirrors, not the actual work being done.

      • “Some people think DT is safe for now.”

        I tend to think so, too. None of the things the Left and MSM are exercised about, the Flynn deal, and talking to Comey about Flynn, seem to have put Trump in jeopardy at all.

        Flynn may have done something illegal, I don’t know, but Trump is not involved in it because if he were you can be sure anything connecting Trump to Flynn would already by out in public, and Comey himself said *noone* had tried to interfere with the investigation into the Russia/Trump collusion, and he said this to Congress three weeks after Trump and Comey met and Trump supposedly tried to influence the investigation.

        Those are the only two things the Left and the MSM can hang their hats on, and it is flimsy indeed, so I’m not too worried about a Special Counsel looking into these matters.

        It’s the Left that should be worried about the Special Counsel. They have all sorts of things to hide including Hillary colluding with the Russians for financial gain. Her husband Bill got $500,000 for one speech in Russia right after Hillary ok’d selling 20 percent of U.S. uranium to Russia. Yeah, let’s look into that.

        Ths only thing Trump is not safe from is cowardly, self-serving Republicans who seek to please the MSM and the Left more than they seek to serve their constituents. 2018 is fast approaching. Trump and his 62+ million supporters will be active in the next election. Never Trumpers and cowardly Republicans better watch what they say and do over the next year, or they might be in for a big surprise come next election day. We are watching you, and many of you are coming up wanting. If you abandon Trump, we are going to abandon you because by abandoning Trump you are abandoning us, too.

      • Not that I like Trump…

        just think of the exploding heads if Trump was re-elected in 2020 … it may be worth it.

      • TA

        A couple of things strike me about you comment.

        Firstly, Trump ain’t daft, he knows he’s an unpopular president, however, my belief is, he’s happy to deal with all the accusations and crap now, rather than later in his tenure.

        As I understand it, Clinton was impeached with a popularity pole rating of 70%+, Trump is, I believe, around half that at the moment. And forgive some of my terms here, I’m a Brit, but as I understand it, Clinton’s opponents couldn’t muster the necessary two thirds of the senate to carry through Clinton’s impeachment. Trump may be unpopular, but as I understand it, the Senate majority is in the Republicans favour, so it’s almost a racing certainty that even if Trump is impeached, the two thirds majority is unlikely to be achieved.

        As I say, my simplistic evaluation of a government I can’t pretend to have much knowledge of.

        As for the Pope, it seems the AGW debate has become such a profitable political fishing pond, that he’s decided to get the Churches sticky mitts on the subject, for the RC churches political, and undoubtedly, financial benefit, under the pretext of science; which the church has never acknowledged, otherwise the bible would be consigned to a nice fairy story.

        Nor do I imagine Trump will be swayed by the Pope on any religious issue with AGW, nor scientific, nor financial, because I suspect he neither knows of the science, nor cares.

        He see’s an opportunity to save billions of $’s, get Americans back to work, and encourage them to work as hard as the Chinese. In short, he’s doing what a POTUS should be doing, being more concerned with his own country, and his responsibilities to it, than to the lilly liberal, green, perception of life – just give everyone everything and the world will be a peaceful green land of milk and honey.

        Life’s tough, the greens need to understand that.

      • HS,

        Trump isn’t popular with a lot of Republicans, but you’re right that, if impeached by the House, he probably wouldn’t be convicted in the Senate. That would take all 48 Democrat and 19 of 52 GOP Senators. However, it depends upon what evidence, if any, of wrong-doing can be dredged up or manufactured against him.

      • Suppose DT vacates the office (for whatever reason). The new POTUS will instantly be [drum roll] … Mike Pence, until at least January 2021. And the EPA chief still Scott Pruitt, regardless of who controls Congress. Likely another SCOTUS vacancy or two before January 2019 (when Democrats could regain control of Congress). But thanks for playing.

      • “Firstly, Trump ain’t daft, he knows he’s an unpopular president,”

        If half the population of the nation likes you and half do not, does that make you an unpopular president?

        Trump is popular with half the population. The other half will come around as Trump proceeds to do his magic and put the U.S. back on the right track. Maybe not all the other half, but more than enough to get himself reelected, imo.

        Trump is going in the right direction policy-wise. If the Left/Swamp can’t manage to stop him, then his popularity will grow, also, imo.

      • Fewer than half the population approve of the job Trump is doing, but the problem for Democrats is that even many who don’t like or approve of him still prefer him to any Democrat on offer.

        Joe Biden is a serious contender for the Democrat nomination in 2020, when he’ll turn 78. But then, next to Sanders, over a year older, he’s a spring chicken. Liz “Fauxcahontas” Warren at least will only be a youthful 71 then, just a year older than Trump turned in 2016.

        Maybe Cory Booker. who’s eight years younger than Obama.

      • “As I understand it, Clinton was impeached with a popularity pole rating of 70%+, Trump is, I believe, around half that at the moment. And forgive some of my terms here, I’m a Brit, but as I understand it, Clinton’s opponents couldn’t muster the necessary two thirds of the senate to carry through Clinton’s impeachment. Trump may be unpopular, but as I understand it, the Senate majority is in the Republicans favour, so it’s almost a racing certainty that even if Trump is impeached, the two thirds majority is unlikely to be achieved.”

        Hotscot, I don’t recall if Clinton’s popularity was 70 percent at that time. Maybe among the Democrats. Clinton’s opponents were a bunch of wobbly Senate Republicans (quite similar to the type serving in the Senate now) who really didn’t want anything to do with removing Clinton from Office. They treated the House representatives disgracefully, and had no intention of pushing the removal. It was DOA. The Democrats didn’t have to do a thing.

        You are correct that Republicans have a majority in Congress now and there is no way Trump will be impeached, as long as he hasn’t broken the law. It doesn’t matter what the Democrats do, the ability to impeach rests in the hands of the Republcans right now because they have the majority.

      • TA: Re Clinton impeachment. Bill Clinton WAS impeached by the House, NOT CONVICTED by the Senate. Impeachment is similar to an indictment by the House to be tried by the Senate.

      • Chimp,

        The “Rock” (Johnson) would be a more formidable candidate than Biden, Booker or that fake Cherokee Indian, Elizabeth Warren. And I’m not joking. :)

        I think if Trump can get on track and get what he wants to do done, then he is going to be more than popular enough to get himself reelected.

        I think barring a nuclear war with North Korea, the landscape is going to look much better for Trump and the U.S. a year from now. It might even manage to look better for us if we do have a nuclear war with North Korea, as long as we can limit it to that area. We are on the verge of not being able to limit it to that one location. We can’t let the North Koreans get the ability to hit us with nukes, no matter what we have to do to stop them, including going to war to stop them, imo.

        If Kim thinks we are willing to go to war to stop him, then maybe he will stop voluntarily. But he has to be convinced of it. At this level, it’s all psychology when dealing with international bullies. First you have to convince them that you can destroy them, and then you have to convince them that you will do just that if they cross the line you have established for them not to cross, and you must convince them that the attack will come regardless of the damage the bully can do.

        If you establish all that in the bully’s mind, then, if he is sane, he will not mess with you, he will focus on things that won’t result in certain death for him. An Insane Bully? Well, you just have to kill them, since your psychological warfare won’t work in that instance.

        I don’t know which kind of international bully Kim Jung Un is. We’ll probably be finding out in the not-too-distant future.

      • TA,

        Yes, the Rock would be more formidable.

        Hope you’re right about how things look in 2020, but there might be a stock market crash between now and then. A real rather than proxy war between the Gulf States and Iran could send gas back to $4. Too much could happen between now and then.

        Health care and tax reform could go awry, for instance. The Great Wall of Trump might not get built. The working stiffs who supported him in 2016 may feel that he let them down, made promises he didn’t keep, just like an ordinary, BAU politician.

        We don’t need to go nuclear on Nork Blob Boy Kim. Our precision-guided conventional weapons can do the job. But war in East Asia would surely affect the stock market, at least for a while.

        IMO Trump could get reelected, if he even runs, but it’s not a sure thing.

      • Chimp May 18, 2017 at 5:00 pm

        … We don’t need to go nuclear on Nork Blob Boy Kim. Our precision-guided conventional weapons can do the job. …

        This Doonesbury cartoon demonstrates the problem exactly. You have to know precisely where your targets are. Couple that with the problem that North Korea is dug in and you have a very messy situation. link

      • “We don’t need to go nuclear on Nork Blob Boy Kim. Our precision-guided conventional weapons can do the job.”

        I was thinking that Kim would be the one to introduce the nuclear weapons into the war. The U.S. probably doesn’t have to use nuclear weapons to defeat Kim, as you said. We can do Kim sufficient damage without that.

        It’s just a crying shame that feckless leaders have allowed the North Korean situation to reach this level of danger, where millions of people in the immediate area are put in danger by a madman.

        We should have stopped the Kim family a long time ago, when they were much less lethal, like during the Clinton administration when they first broke the nuclear agreement. A war then would have been much less costly.

        Now Kim is so dangerous that we cannot allow him to increase his capablities any more. If we have to take action to stop him there’s no telling how many people will die, but if we don’t stop him, in a couple of years, ten or twenty times that many people will die. We cannot allow ourselves to be at the mercy of someone who has no mercy.

      • Bob,

        We know where enough of Kim’s nuclear and missile technologies and bases are (probably all of them) to take both programs down. We also have conventional bunker busting capability, as in the 15-ton GBU-57A/B Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP), deliverable by B-2:

        TA,

        Everyone in the Kim regime would have to have a death wish to use their few nukes on us. But if they did, their swift destruction would be assured.

        It is to prevent that miscalculation on their part that Trump needs at long last to say enough is enough and, at a minimum, take out their nuke and ballistic missile capabilities.

      • “It is to prevent that miscalculation on their part that Trump needs at long last to say enough is enough and, at a minimum, take out their nuke and ballistic missile capabilities.”

        Yes, as you said, the North Koreans would be crazy to start a nuclear war. It would be certain death for North Korea’s leadership.

        And I agree we should take out Kim’s missile and nuclear facilities.

        Trump should send Kim a message that the next time he launches a missile or does another nuclear test, that the U.S. is going to destroy his nuclear and missile development facilities, and if Kim wants to stay alive, he better not react militarily to our attack, or we will consider that to be the start of full-scale war and will commence destroying him and his military forces immediately upon his initiation of hostilities.

        And then do it if he is foolish enough to step over the line.

        I know it seems harsh, but this situation has been allowed to go much too far, and it is going to take drastic action to fix it. Delaying the fix, only makes fixing things more difficult and deadly in the future.

        Kicking the can down the road is no longer an option.

    • PiperPaul,

      to be fair, we all do a fair amount of pontificating on the subject ourselves.

      And once again, to be fair, who better to pontificate than the Pontiff?

      :):):)

  4. An old church trying to be relevant to a new church?

    Or just trying to distract from all the current attention on priests “misbehaving” with children and the following coverups ?

    • Actually it was priests of a specific orientation seducing adolescent males. Now the boy scouts will begin to experience the same problem.

  5. By applying ‘heat’ on issue after issue, the Establishment has Trump in a corner (defensive mode). By not angering the Climate Gods, it will be one less major aggravation to endure. Trump needs to ATTACK, else he will be hammered into oblivion.
    You cannot appease and win.

    • Attacking won’t work either. The media OWNS this country and they smell blood in the water. They see Nixon all over again. They will not back off and I do not believe Americans have what it takes to stop this. They sat idolly by and did nothing for decades as the press cemented their dictatorship over the country. Why would they act now? It’s harder now. No, we will lose Trump and the press WILL win.

      • Attacking won’t work either. The media OWNS this country and they smell blood in the water.

        No, we will lose Trump …… and the press WILL win.

        The media best start minding their “P’s and Q’s” …….. because President Trump has a few “Aces” up his sleeve that he can “put into play” …… whenever he wants to, ….. and the MSM would find themselves in “a heap of trouble” …… iffen Trump’s “attack dogs” went after them with “blood” in their eyes, to wit:

        This Manual is published by the Federal Communications Commission (the “FCC” or the “Commission”), …….. the federal agency directed by Congress to regulate broadcasting. It provides a brief overview of the FCC’s regulation of broadcast radio and television licensees, describing how the FCC authorizes broadcast stations, the various rules relating to broadcast programming and operations with which stations must comply, and the essential obligation of licensees that their stations serve their local communities.

        [snip]

        The Communications Act. The FCC was created by Congress in the Communications Act for the purpose of “regulating interstate and foreign commerce in communication by wire and radio so as to make available, so far as possible, to all the people of the United States, without discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, or sex, a rapid, efficient, Nation-wide, and world-wide wire and radio communications service . . . .” (In this context, the word “radio” covers both broadcast radio and television.)

        The Communications Act authorizes the FCC to “make such regulations not inconsistent with law as it may deem necessary to prevent interference between stations and to carry out the provisions of [the] Act.” It directs us to base our broadcast licensing decisions on the determination of whether those actions will serve the public interest, convenience, and necessity.

        Read more @ https://www.fcc.gov/media/radio/public-and-broadcasting

      • “Attacking won’t work either. The media OWNS this country and they smell blood in the water. They see Nixon all over again. They will not back off and I do not believe Americans have what it takes to stop this.”

        What will stop this is if Trump has not done anything illegal. Nixon did something illegal and got caught doing it.

        If Trump is innocent of wrongdoing, and all indications, despite the MSM’s best efforts, are that he is not involved in anything illegal or corrupt. If that is the case, the MSM are going to run out of gas on the issue eventually.

        That’s not to say they won’t raise other issues, probably a new one every day, but that standard operating procedure for the Left. Once Trump has a few major successes, like passing health care and tax cuts, and the economy starts picking up steam, he will get the rest of the Repubicans on board because they can see a future with him, and they will start fighting back against the Left and the MSM.

        If you’ll notice, they are already pushing back on the MSM. Paul Ryan was rock solid today in his news conference. The reporters were trying to get his to say something bad about Trump and he just laughed them off, and proceeded to tell them about all the things the Republican congress has done since Trump was elected, and all the things planned in the future. And he is not by himself, other Republicans are speaking out. Of course, all you hear about from the MSM are the few Republicans who bash Trump, which, again, is standard operating procedure for the MSM.

        If Trump’s not guilty of doing anything illegal, then they can’t touch him, and the few things he is being accused of look like nothing to me, certainly not criminal offenses, and if that’s all they have, then that’s all they have. Trump hasn’t been in government long enough to have any track record to criticize beyond that.

  6. Maybe Trump will convert the Pope. A quote below from a great satirical piece pretending to be a speech by Trump running for the office of Pope:

    “I think we should also maybe build a wall around the Vatican so the pope can’t get on an airplane again, let me tell you. Too many interviews on the airplane. Way too many interviews.”
    (Cheers, applause)

    “And isn’t this the pope who’s always talking about the greenhouse gases and the carbon footprint and harming the earth? But yet he keeps flying all over the world on these big 747’s belching all kinds of pollutants all over the place. Why? To give interviews? Do you want your pope flying around giving interviews or making the Church great again? I’d be at the Vatican every day making us win again, let me tell you.”

    The whole thing is a hoot: https://rclutz.wordpress.com/2016/02/28/trump-converts-running-for-pope/

      • “Should God save the Pope if the pope is so anti-human?”

        I think the Bible says that children who die before they reach the “age of understanding” go directly to God.

        The Pope seems to be in a state before the “age of understanding” when it comes to Climate Change, so I think God will indeed save him, because the Pope “knows not what he does”. He is sincere, but ignorant, which I don’t think should result in Eternal Damnation. If I am this merciful, then surely a Loving, Almighty God, is even more so.

      • TA: Only God knows if the Pope is sincere, ignorant, a false prophet, etc. I presume that is why God decides who gets saved and who does not.

      • Sheri, maybe I should have said the Pope seems sincere. You are correct, I can’t read his mind.

  7. President Trump will convert the Pope to Buddhism. Just as likely. The current Pope is a naive socialist, but somehow…

  8. The Socialist Pope from South America can’t convince his own Bishops to stop Clerical Pedophilia. What makes anyone think his stand on CAGW is worth the breath to speak it?

      • I hope Trump bends the Pope over and gives him one whilst waving his Stetson in the air howling “this is how the Catholic Church treats the rest of the world, including innocent kids, enjoying it Popey baby? YeeeeHaaaaaa”

  9. Climate Change Action as translated by the Wharfplankinator Device goes like this…First world treasure transferred to third world despots via the UN.

  10. I’m more worried about Ivanka’s influence. Trump is likely to take practical positions in lieu of correct ones when it comes to his personal goals. That’s what deal-making is about.

  11. “He added that “today the Chinese are actually very collaborative as concerns the commitments they took on climate with the Paris Climate Conference”

    What commitments? The Chinese are not required to do anything under the Paris Agreement until the year 2030. Trump should mention this to the Pope so the Pope won’t be operating under a false assumption.

      • Butch,

        that’s ‘no need Engrish’.

        Nor is that a racial slur, many native Chinese pronounce the letter ‘N’ as we do, but have a problem with the letter ‘L’. Westerners, on the other hand, are gently mocked by the Chinese for our language skills.

  12. Why do these stupid leftist morons think the Chinese are somehow tree huggers compared with the U.S? Probably the same idiots that tell us what an ideal society Cuba has. Unbelievable.

    • My late father in law was a senior UN forester in the 50’s/60’s. He knew Fidel and Raul well, as he was working on 300 year forestry plans for them. He found Fidel quite reasonable but described Raul as the guy who made the snowballs Fidel threw.

      Anyway, my FIL helped build massive timber processing factories, high grade plywood etc. for export to generate income for Cuba, and had eye watering budgets.

      Five years of backbreaking work, job done, my FIL left Cuba, satisfied with his achievements.

      Fidel and Raul then set about selling the factory equipment overseas and dismantled everything the UN had done.

      Did the Cuban people see a brass farthing? Not on your Nellie they didn’t.

  13. “On his opinion that the Pope will manage to “convince” Donald Trump, Sorondo said that “they will come to an agreement, since the president claims to be a Christian, and so he will listen to him.”

    Trump should listen to the Pope on Christian issues, but not on science issues because the Pope is obviously deluded and thinks humans are causing the Earth’s climate to change.

    The Pope is an expert on Christianity, but he is not an expert on the Earth’s Climate. Thinking humans are causing the Earth’s climate to change is an act of faith because it has no basis in fact.

    • TA,

      “Trump should listen to the Pope on Christian issues…”

      Please don’t speak as though being a Christian implies one “should listen to the Pope” about anything . . Most American Christians are not Catholic, and I for one would prefer not to be spoken of as having any obligation whatsoever to take anything that man says seriously. I feel none at all.

      • And most American Catholics ignore the Pope on most subjects anyway. They might listen, but most disagree.

      • The US is the opposite of the world, in which a bare majority of Christians is Roman Catholic. Here, the various Protestant denominations constitute a bare majority of US Christians, if you count Episcopalians as Protestants, vs. some 24% Roman Catholic. The share of Americans who identify as Christian is falling however, down to 75% in Pew’s 2015 poll, with some 62% belonging to a congregation. As recently as 1990, 86% of Americans identified as Christian.

        At that rate, we might be down to 64% in 2040, 53% in 2065 and 42% in 2090, but there could be a revival as Millennials age, and with more Latino immigration. If the predicted blood bath occurs in South Africa, millions of Calvinist refugees might seek asylum here.

        Christianity is already declining rapidly in much of Europe. In Germany, some 35% are unaffiliated with any religion, while 59% claim to be Christian (of which 31% Roman and Orthodox Catholic and 28% Protestant), with three to six percent M@slim and about one percent Other. The high irreligious number may owe to the Anschluss with formerly Communist East Germany.

  14. “Instead, the Pope followed what the scientific community says.” What, the mathematical models that show 4-5 degrees of warming by 2100 is real science? Is the Pope now a fortune teller? Or does he have divine knowledge of future climate? The Pope should stick to his own fictional BS.

    And we have barely had .85 degrees C warming since 1880, all within natural variation, although humans are responsible for some of that small warming. And it is a good thing we have had this small amount of warming since the depths of the Little Ice Age. We are finally back to a climate that is optimum for human survival.

      • Optimum would probably be the climate of the balmy Eocene, in which mammals flourished, despite the relative lack of grasslands, which spread during the cooler Oligocene, replacing forests:

    • @Ron Williams

      “The Pope should stick to his own fictional BS.”

      He is. It’s just greenism as well as Catholicism.

      :):)

      • Mark,

        I call BS on the Virgin Birth.

        Parthenogensis has never been observed in humans, and had Mary actually given birth to Jesus without losing her virginity, then He would have been a baby girl. Unless artificial insemination were practiced in the 1st century Galilee.

        So that important Catholic doctrine must be fictional.

      • “I call BS on the Virgin Birth”

        It’s rather obvious to me that you simply don’t believe in God, and therefore don’t believe He can do anything . . but that doesn’t “prove” there is no God, or that any of the miraculous things spoken of in the Book didn’t happen, Chimp. (Not to non-Chimp worshipers anyway ; )

      • I should add that not just has parthenogenesis never been observed in humans, but never in any other mammalian species in the wild. It has been achieved in the lab, with extensive intervention in vivo (rabbits and mice) and in vitro. Attempts in monkeys have failed due to abnormal embryonic development.

        Lab creation of parthenogenetic human cells may however offer a way to obtain stem cells.

      • John,

        Since there is no evidence that God has ever done anything, that’s right, I don’t believe in miracles. I’ll get back to you when and if praying helps me win the lottery.

        So in your alternative universe, God not only impregnated Mary, but magically deleted one of her X chromosomes and inserted His own or someone else’s, maybe Joseph’s, Y chromosome, so that the baby would be a boy.

        Which is more likely, in your opinion, that the Virgin Birth actually occurred, or that it is a story added to two of the gospels in order to make Jesus more like mythic characters against which the cult of Christianity had to compete in the 2nd century? Modern biblical scholarship generally regards the doctrine as the latter.

        It was common in ancient Palestine for prospective brides to get knocked up before marriage, but after betrothal, in order to prove that they could bear kids before the husband was stuck with her. No miracle required.

      • I also call BS on Original Sin.

        Augustine hatched that whopper all by himself, and the Church gladly bought into the sc@m, as promising so much power over the peons.

        It might have been an honest mistake on his part, because he never learned enough Greek to read the NT himself. He claims it was because he didn’t like his Greek teacher, but that sounds fishy to me, too. By his own admission, he was a lazy wastrel in his youth.

        And if you already know Latin, Greek isn’t that tough. First and second century Koine is easier that Attic, which is easier than Homeric Greek.

        Ditto papal ex cathedra infallibility. More BS.

        Not that Protestants don’t have plenty of manure of their own to spread around.

      • Chimp the imagination worshiper says;

        “Since there is no evidence that God has ever done anything, that’s right, I don’t believe in miracles.”

        If you can’t even manage to say something like; *…nothing I consider evidence that God has done anything …” then I don’t take your self centered ranting seriously.

        You BELIEVE without question things you can merely imagine happened, yet disparage others who claim to have actually witnessed things, because you didn’t . . You’re NOT a skeptical/critical thinker, to me, just a zealous self-worshiper.

      • Oops that ought to have read;

        Chimp the imagination worshiper says;

        “Since there is no evidence that God has ever done anything, that’s right, I don’t believe in miracles.”

        If you can’t even manage to say something like; *…nothing I consider evidence that God has done anything …” then I don’t take your self centered ranting seriously.

        You BELIEVE without question things you can merely imagine happened, yet disparage others who claim to have actually witnessed things, because you didn’t . . You’re NOT a skeptical/critical thinker, to me, just a zealous self-worshiper.

      • And, for the non-self worshiping readers; People willing to be torn apart by wild animals in the Roman Coliseum, when they had merely to indicate they relinquished their claims to have witnessed miraculous things, is evidence they witnessed something they saw as miraculous. And, a great many people since then (myself included) testifying that they saw what seemed to them miraculous things, is evidence they did . . (even if Chimp the Giant-head doesn’t grasp the difference between evidence and proof ; )

      • John,

        Your beliefs are not evidence, but imaginary. You are confused.

        As I said, there is no evidence whatsoever that your God did anything. That is not an imaginary belief but a fact. That it appears to us that something exists is not evidence that God made it all. That is no explanation at all. It’s also antiscientific, since science is based upon natural observations, not supernatural myths.

        Because we perceive that the universe exists isn’t evidence of a god or any other supernatural agency. As I keep trying to tell you, a more satisfactory explanation, is that mass and energy are simply properties of spacetime. Supposing a creator is a supernatural superstition, not even a metaphysical, let alone physical explanation. It shuts down inquiry rather than promoting it.

        As I also keep telling you, Protestant theology requires that God remain hidden, hence supposing that there is evidence of His existence is blasphemous. The faith which you believe, if Protestant, alone saves you would be of no value if there were evidence in favor of the God hypothesis.

        I’ve quoted you the scripture relied upon by Luther and Calvin to derive this doctrine, which IMO is the proper interpretation of the Apostle Paul’s words. How can you argue with Calvin that an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent Creator predestines the fate of each soul, condemning the vast majority to outer darkness, hence there is nothing you can do to save yourself? Your fate is foreordained. If you have faith, you will be saved.

        If you agree instead with the Catholic Scholastic philosophers that God’s existence is subject to “proof”, then take up with Paul, Luther and Calvin. They’re your witch doctors and sc@m artists, not mine.

        Both Luther and Calvin opposed as unscriptural, which it is, the heliocentric hypothesis of Copernicus, without mentioning his name. But Calvin, following Augustine, at least recognized that much of the Bible is not literally true, such as the alleged waters above the firmament. His solution was “accommodation”, the belief that “Moses”, whom he thought wrote Genesis, wasn’t technically accurate because his audience were simple people.

      • JohnKnight May 18, 2017 at 3:41 pm

        That you imagine you’re seen miracles is neither evidence nor “proof” of anything. As I keep saying, if you’re a Protestant, you shouldn’t need or even want such imagined experiences, since your faith should be blind.

        As Luther said, “To be a Christian, you must tear the eyes out of your reason.” As should be obvious, since you believe that a dead man came back to life, then literally ascended to Heaven, wherever and whatever that might be. And that this man’s mother gave birth to him without a man.

        As Early Church Father Tertullian right observed, “I believe precisely because it is absurd.” And it is. That’s the whole point.

      • “Your beliefs are not evidence, but imaginary. You are confused.”

        And you know that how, featherweight? You imagine it is so, right? And, believe without question what you imagine, to the point of stating it as a flat statement of fact . . You’re an imagination worshiper, kid, not a brilliant anything, I say.

      • John,

        As I said. You are deeply confused.

        You imagine supernatural beings, yet imagine that I imagine things. I imagine nothing. I go by observations. And there is no observational evidence of a Creator, which is as the Protestant version thereof would want it.

      • You really don’t get it, do you?

        “You imagine supernatural beings, yet imagine that I imagine things.”

        How do you KNOW (not merely imagine and believe) that I didn’t witness things you yourself would be convinced by, Chimp? You can’t time-travel and mind-read, right? You can imagine though, and in this case that’s all . . believe what you imagine without question/skepticism, and you’re an imagination worshiper . . treating your own imaginings as if utterances and visions of an all-powerful God . . This is kid stuff to me, that I couldn’t have been more than ten before grasping. Please try to think it through . .

      • JohnKnight:

        It appears that the only featherweight in this discussion is you.

        You’ve provided no evidence in support of the existence of your God, so he, she or it must be a figment of your imagination. No one else is bound to accept your word for it.

        Christian martyrs are no different from others deluded by their belief systems over the millennia. Look at the Rosenbergs, Communist martyrs. She at least could have saved herself. Does their faith prove Communism true?

        You sound very unchristian. Like too many people professing to be Christians, you’re intolerant of and angry at those who understand both science and theology far better, are more educated and smarter than yourself.

        I wonder why antiscientific, biblical literalists are allowed to comment here, on a prize-winning science site.

      • JohnKnight May 18, 2017 at 4:29 pm

        Since you refuse to state what your imagined evidence is, I can only conclude that there isn’t any that would stand up to scientific scrutiny.

        I don’t make unsupported assertions. All my statements here are based upon what science has learned, always subject to test by the scientific method. That you don’t like the fact of evolution isn’t an argument against it.

        In the Bible, the sun moves over the earth, which is immobile. There are waters above the firmament of heaven, including the storehouses of hail, snow and rain, the levers of which God Himself operates. Earth, day, night and plants all were created before the Sun. You imagine a global flood for which there is zero evidence and all the evidence in the world against it.

        You imagine all these things without any evidence, yet imagine that I imagine things. Show me your evidence “proving” God or quit calling me names. You’ve got nothing except blind faith and a totally unwarranted certainty in the validity of your faith-based, evidence-free beliefs.

      • Gabro May 18, 2017 at 4:50 pm

        If martyrs for the faith are the standard of truth, then Isl@m must be the most truthful of all religions going today.

      • Chimp, it looks to me like you have done a lot of study on Christian religion. I’m impressed with the extent of your knowledge. You must have put a lot of effort into it.

      • TA,

        Almost all my life, starting with memorizing biblical passages in Baptist Sunday school, aged six.

        One of the reasons I studied ancient Greek in college was to read the New Testament. Maybe secondary to Homer, Hesiod and the Attic classics, but a definite plus.

        I’m a lot more conversant with Protestant than with Catholic theology, but if I were to believe, I’d be Greek Orthodox, even though that’s not my culture, because it uses the “Apostles’ OT”, the Septuagint, and the NT in Greek. And, if you’re gonna go Christian, why not go the whole hog and opt for ritual as well. Protestant iconoclasm may be biblically correct, but cost the world an immense loss of art and archaeology.

        My study of the Ugaritic texts allowed me fully to understand obscure parts of the OT for the first time. Wonderful advances in biblical scholarship have been made in the past century.

      • PS:

        By age 12, it was obvious that the Bible could not possibly be literally true. A church lady gave me a copy of “The Bible as Archaeology”, but even that clearly was lacking.

        As I’ve mentioned here before, there is some agreement between archaeology and the Bible after c. 800 BC, but with spin. Before that, not so much. As in, hardly at all.

        However, archaeology, ie cuneiform tablets, has elucidated the sources for the Pentateuch. The flood story comes from the Epic of Gilgamesh and the “begats” from the Sumerian kings list. The “six days of creation” and “Adam and Eve” creation myths also have Babylonian and ultimately Sumerian antecedents.

      • Nevertheless, at age 14, I was baptized, so I have all bases covered.

        I haven’t accepted Pascal’s wager, but once saved, always saved. So, it’s all good.

      • Gabro,

        “It appears that the only featherweight in this discussion is you.

        You’ve provided no evidence in support of the existence of your God, so he, she or it must be a figment of your imagination. ”

        Not true (I most certainly presented some evidence) and not logical, to me . . the phrase “must be” is in no sense justified, weather or not I or anyone else failed to present evidence. All sorts of things have been found to exist, for which no one had presented any evidence in the past. I feel like I’m dealing with SJWs or something . .

      • John,

        I too missed that evidence. Please supply it again. Sorry, but I’m always asked to repost things I’ve shown repeatedly. Thanks.

        I’m unaware of any actual physical evidence in support of the existence of your god. Besides which, in Protestant theology, you shouldn’t even expect any such thing.

      • This is a great example of Chimp’s failure to think logically about this stuff, it seems to me;

        “However, archaeology, ie cuneiform tablets, has elucidated the sources for the Pentateuch. The flood story comes from the Epic of Gilgamesh and the “begats” from the Sumerian kings list. The “six days of creation” and “Adam and Eve” creation myths also have Babylonian and ultimately Sumerian antecedents.”

        Now, if the great flood happened, one could expect many people to pass on stories about it for a very long time, weather or not God chose to have an inspired/authentic version written down at some point. That people wrote down versions before He inspired an account, is not surprising or indicative of much of anything, logically speaking.

        It’s basically Chimp declaring that he figures (for unknown reasons) that God would have prohibited anyone from telling what they knew of the event before He provided an inspired account . . which makes virtually no sense that I can see . . Why even bother?

      • PS:

        The God hypothesis has been out there, in its Hebrew version, for over 3000 years, without any evidence yet, so your suggestion that other conjectures later found valid have been made without evidence is, to say the least, unconvincing.

      • Chimp,

        “I too missed that evidence. Please supply it again.”

        No problem, yer welcome ; )

        “And, for the non-self worshiping readers; People willing to be torn apart by wild animals in the Roman Coliseum, when they had merely to indicate they relinquished their claims to have witnessed miraculous things, is evidence they witnessed something they saw as miraculous. And, a great many people since then (myself included) testifying that they saw what seemed to them miraculous things, is evidence they did . . (even if Chimp the Giant-head doesn’t grasp the difference between evidence and proof ; ) “

      • John,

        Like so many fundamentalist, you not only don’t read the Bible, but its sources. The details of the flood myth, including its prescientific explanation of the rainbow, come straight from Mesopotamian sources. You’re just flailing about out of total ignorance, grasping for nonexistent straws.

        The incontrovertible, scientific fact is that there is zero evidence in favor of a global flood and all the evidence in the world against it.

        It was obvious to me as a 12 year-old that the very first chapters of the very first book of the OT could not possibly be “true”. That you continue, as an adult, to credit these mythical fantasies, just shows how thoroughly your mind has been bent by your belief system.

        He hasn’t commented here for a long time, but Duke physics prof Robert Brown rightly pointed out that, did Genesis and other biblical myths not exist, nobody would imagine such lunacies, given the facts discovered by geology and every other science.

      • JohnKnight May 18, 2017 at 6:44 pm

        It never even occurred to me that that ludicrous spew was your “evidence”. As has already been repeatedly pointed out to you, M@slims, Communists and adherents of many other false belief systems have been just as willing to be torn and blown apart, stabbed, shot, burnt alive, fired on pans, boiled in oil and killed in a variety of horrible ways because their belief systems told them that they should. Christianity is in no way special in that regard.

        Did you really not read the comments on Communist and M@slim martyrs above? Did you really never make that connection?

      • Fried for fired, although of course firing has also happened over and over again.

        I knew a Catholic Falangist Spaniard whose first job as a teenager was on a Nationalist firing squad, shooting Communists. Of course the true-believing Republican Communists did the same. He said that after the first day, it got easier.

        And yes, Franco is still dead.

      • As for physical evidence, the uncovering of the vast complexity and order in even the simplest living things, is certainly evidence for a Creator. When people thought life was essentially goo that had been animated in a simplistic sense by some sort of electric of whatever force, they were obviously way off base, and subsequent evidence has become readily available that shows they were .

        Now, Chimp can imagine living things arising in a similar fashion, by chance alone, but that’s just some dude imagining things, as it was back then, to me. He can declare it’s not evidence for a Creator, but then he doesn’t seem to me to grasp what the term evidence means . .

      • John,

        And please, while you’re at it, provide me those instances for which I’ve asked of creationism developing new drugs, as evolution has over and over and over and over again, and of “flood geology” finding new oil and ore deposits, as real geology has done over and over and over and over again.

        In real science, the proof is in the pudding. You’ve got nothing. Nothing at all except for your brainwashed imagination of supernatural beings, fairies and spirits.

      • JohnKnight May 18, 2017 at 7:13 pm

        As I keep trying to teach you, and as you keep not being able to handle the truth, complexity in living things requires not supernatural agency.

        From complex chemical compounds to biochemistry is a small step. What are you going to do when, in the lifetime of most now reading this (if any are), my colleagues make living things out of organic chemicals in the lab?

        Only your lack of information about advances in origin of life research allows you still to imagine that a supernatural agency is necessary for organic chemicals to become biochemicals.

        I know better, because it’s my business.

      • John,

        Apparently you’ve not bothered to access the many links I’ve posted to origin of life research.

        The gap which you imagine between the constituents of life and modern complex cells has been bridged. The problem is not how it might have happened, but that there are so many ways in which it could have occurred on earth or in space.

        But you can’t handle the truth, so don’t even bother to read the links I’ve provided. Or maybe your chemical and biological education is insufficient for you to do so.

      • JohnKnight:

        I’m sorry, but can you really be this dense? You’re obviously not stupid, but that’s how you come across.

        You bring ancient mythology to a science fight. That means that in a battle of wits, you come disarmed, my brother.

        The theologians of your own religion utterly reject your creationist lunacy and delusion. Please, get a grip.

      • “The incontrovertible, scientific fact is that there is zero evidence in favor of a global flood and all the evidence in the world against it.”

        I “controvert” that claim . . (and I’m not the only one). You just got proven wrong, but are too ignorant of basic logic to even grasp that you have been.

      • “The gap which you imagine between the constituents of life and modern complex cells has been bridged.”

        Sure it has, by the god of the gaps, the god of bit by bit . .. in some people’s IMAGINATIONS . . including Chimp’s ; )

      • John.

        You have “proven” nothing. Everyone here, ie all with the most elementary scientific education, either feels sorry for you or laughs at you.

        There is, as I said, no evidence whatsoever in favor of Noah’s flood. Please explain why real geologists, who get paid for success, deride “Flood geology”.

        You are delusional. I’ll take pity on you and quit trying to cure you of the brainwashing you have suffered at the hands of professional liars, who obviously have never read the Bible, or, if they have, shamelessly tell lies about it.

        So sad, your bad.

      • Yes Mark W… So the concept of the Pope being the Vicar of Christ is as BS as it gets. Especially if you are a Protestant, which I suspect you are based upon your previous writings. I suspect you know what it means. Calling the pope the “Vicar of Christ” implies that he has the same power and authority that Christ had over the church. If you believe this, then you are probably a Roman Catholic, and really, really nuts. Not that modern day cults of Christianity aren’t absolute nuts with a real hell fire brimstone, Intelligent Design or a literal age of the world being 6000 years old. I grew up with all that garbage, in fact tortured under it, and that is as close to Satanism as you can get. Although that doesn’t exist either. It is all just feel good fantasy for the faithful. Fill your boots, but not mine.

        Chimp, I always looks forward to your comments because they are some of the most well thought out and intelligent statements here and we all learn a lot from you. But your statement that “there is no evidence of a worldwide flood” has me a bit confused. There was of course a world wide flood, and it was called the end of the ice age when ocean levels rose almost 400 feet. I believe this is the story and myth of the flood since nearly every culture on earth has some recollection of a literal flood. Not that the waters elevated, with the summits of the highest mountains under 15 cubits of water flooding the world for 150 days, but that over a relatively quick time of several thousand years the oceans flooded out coastal dwellers globally and especially catastrophic floods like the suspected Black Sea breach which is probably the origins of the Gilgamesh flood myth.

        Anyway, as you say, the Christians here should know that their conviction is only based upon faith, and we will know them by their works. Why they try and argue that their God or their version of philosophical/religious truth is the only truth and everybody else is going to hell, is a mystery to me. I can only suspect that they have a massive insecurity in having to prove something.

      • Dear Anthony & Moderators,

        May I respectfully ask why you allow such errant nonsense, drivel and antiscientific garbage as John’s young earth creationism and “flood geology” to pollute your respected science site. I gather from comments over the years that you don’t share the belief that earth is less than 7000 years old.

        This is especially trenchant when considering that “Sl@ayers are prohibited, although they at least have a scientific, rather than mythical biblical, basis for their (probably) incorrect hypothesis about the atmosphere and warming.

        I have often seen CAGW proponents link climate change skeptics with anti-evolution lunatics. Your toleration of their idiocy only reinforces this charge.

        Not my blog, so not my call. Thanks for all that you’ve done, but tolerating lunatics like John and Janice doesn’t serve climate skepticism, as you must know.

        [Like liquids and life, thought often proceeds faster when offered many parallel free paths. .mod]

      • Ron,

        The rise in sea level during the transition to the Holocene did not flood the whole world over the highest mountains, as per Genesis.

        Putting Mt. Everest under water would require three times the volume of water of all the oceans as they are now.

        Didn’t happen. Couldn’t happen.

      • Right. I agree and said so in my comment. But I do think there is a compelling story for the flood myth as I stated being the end of the ice age. It must have been a time of incredible upheaval, albeit in slow motion over time and probably no one drowned, except maybe in the Scablands when there was a real torrent for a week. Has nothing to with Christianity, except they borrowed the Gilgamesh myth and incorporated it into the old OT.

        The same way (as you say) that we should see that early Christianity had to compete with other religious cults like those of Mythros and that Christian divinity was probably derived from early Greek and Roman Divinity of the Gods, or later the Emperor himself. Including the holy hallo. Anyway…am in agreement on everything else.

      • “You have “proven” nothing. Everyone here, ie all with the most elementary scientific education, either feels sorry for you or laughs at you.”

        Then everyone here can go to hell, but it won’t change the fact that what you said is incontrovertible, is not incontrovertible. I can’t help it if you’ve fallen in love with your own imagination, and believe whatever happens to appear in it without question . . I didn’t indoctrinate you to worship human imagination(s).

        “There is, as I said, no evidence whatsoever in favor of Noah’s flood.”

        I don’t even know what that means . . there is evidence of flooding nearly everywhere, so you (and some geologists) deciding what happened long ago remains just speculation. They did not observe what they imagine happened long ago. Hell, it was only a few decades ago that they (for the most part) decided the continents have been moving around . . Why do you assume they are all-knowing time travelers of whatever?

        You just don’t get it, but you do demonstrate how/why we got into this pickle with the “climate scientists” and their imaginings, it seems to me . . imagination worship.

      • “Anyway, as you say, the Christians here should know that their conviction is only based upon faith . . ”

        Whose isn’t, Ron? Yours?

        “I grew up with all that garbage, in fact tortured under it …”

        So what? Kids can mess up complex things . . right?

      • “Nevertheless, at age 14, I was baptized, so I have all bases covered.

        I haven’t accepted Pascal’s wager, but once saved, always saved. So, it’s all good.”

        That’s kind of the way I am. I was baptised at about 12 years old, and although I don’t attend regular church services anymore, I try to live by the Golden Rule, and I figure that ought to cover me for most religions.

        Chimp, have you looked at other religions besides Christianity?

  15. Byrd-Hagel Resolution
    IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

    July 25, 1997

    Resolved, That it is the sense of the Senate that–

    (1) the United States should not be a signatory to any protocol to, or other agreement regarding, the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change of 1992, at negotiations in Kyoto in December 1997, or thereafter, which would–

    (A) mandate new commitments to limit or reduce greenhouse gas emissions for the Annex I Parties, unless the protocol or other agreement also mandates new specific scheduled commitments to limit or reduce greenhouse gas emissions for Developing Country Parties within the same compliance period, or

    (B) would result in serious harm to the economy of the United States; and

    (2) any such protocol or other agreement which would require the advice and consent of the Senate to ratification should be accompanied by a detailed explanation of any legislation or regulatory actions that may be required to implement the protocol or other agreement and should also be accompanied by an analysis of the detailed financial costs and other impacts on the economy of the United States which would be incurred by the implementation of the protocol or other agreement.

    SEC. 2. The Secretary of the Senate shall transmit a copy of this resolution to the President.

    • Not many people in the senate today, where there in 1997.
      Different cast of clowns could result in a different result.

      • The 1997 Senate had 45 Democrats and 55 Republicans, v. 48-52 now, but in those days even some Democrats were hip to Hansen’s tricks, especially from coal and car states. The GOP has since made gains in the Rust Belt. There are anomalous Democrats in MT, ND, MO and IN because of poor GOP candidates and dirty Dumpocrap tricks in prior elections. Some of those seats will be regained in 2018 and 2020.

        No way Senate majority leader McConnell of coal state KY will sign onto the CACA sc@m, much as the political class in general would love carbon taxes.

    • Chimp.

      To my shame I just looked up the meaning of GOP.

      In my Scottish nativity I imagined it was a reference to an official political term, but I now find it’s ‘The Grand Ole’ Party’. I suspect a derogatory term relative to the Southern states proclivity for slavery, except I also understand it was the Democrats who flew that particular banner.

      Funny how everything derogatory is twisted to represent Republicans, and in the UK, Conservatives, when our only cry to arms is to free people from state oppression.

      It’s also strange how three of the four greatest fascist states in the 20th Century evolved from socialism; Germany, China and Russia. The forth being Spain where Franco was a committed right winger.

      All gone, in anything but name, along with the atrocities they committed in the name of ‘equality’, whichever form that took.

      I like Matt Ridley’s analysis of human success in his book The Rational Optimist. Trade, is the fundamental reason man grew and evolved. An astonishingly simple and profound concept that stands the test of scientific analysis.

      Where trade wasn’t possible man at best atrophied, and usually died out.

      My personal belief is that history will record the 20th and 21st century as an unfortunate period of time when politicians were allowed to run riot.

      I am now a member of The Libertarian Party, a party that consigns government to defence of UK shores, and civil defence by a robust police presence, but, emphatically not, a Police state. It rejects the concept of big government and the associated expense, instead encouraging us all to take responsibility for our own destinies.

      Indeed, a bit like America a couple of hundred years ago. Before the politicians took hold because of the bleating of minority pressure groups banding together to oppress the majority of hard workers in both our countries; stealing our children’s futures for their greedy, green eyed, sticky fingered benefit. A Pox on taxation for their benefit. The Phuckers!

      Pant, Pant……….Rant over.!

      • The nickname “Grand Old Party” originated in the 1870s and ’80s in reference to its being the largely Protestant, protectionist, nativist party victorious in the Civil War, defeating the disloyal, degraded Jim Crow Democrat Partly of “Rum, Romanism and Rebellion”, at that time devoted to white urban immigrants and against the interests of disenfranchised black Southerners.

        For good or ill, the GOP has always been the party of morality, first in its crusade against the extension of slavery into the territories, then for Negro equality, then in favor of Prohibition and votes for women, then against drugs, abortion, same-sex marriage and opposite-sex bathrooms. You can see why Libertarians don’t always feel at home in today’s faith-based GOP.

      • Chimp,

        First, thanks for your enlightening description of GOP, far better than I have read elsewhere on the internet.

        I’m not sure if you noticed my earlier post that ‘outed’ me as a Libertarian, as opposed to a Liberal. There are considerable differences.

        A liberal is a political animal who seeks to escalate political authority, just like our Conservative, Labour and Liberal parties here in the UK. Your political environment is no different.

        Libertarians, on the other hand, seek to restrict the powers of politicians to the defence of our shores and internal law and order. That’s it.

        The rest is up to us as individuals which means regional and community based taxation and services, allowing the free moment of people within communities, relative to their personal preferences. Our individual preferences to racial, gender, or religious beliefs are left to us as individuals, not generated by spiteful media who seek to promote their own survival. I have a problem with this bit as we can’t survive with them, but can’t live without them. The curse of communal literacy?

        And what are we seeing now in the UK? Brexit, the divorce from centralised European political power. Scottish independence, the divorce from Westminster centralised power. Yorkshire, Cornwall and many other British regions are also resentful of the overreaching control of the centralised Westminster political state and just waiting for an opportunity.

        We are sleepwalking into 1984. Climate change is but one of the dreams. It promotes the concept of meaningful life, somehow beyond the holy grail of 100 years of living because physical life will be pure if we eat veggies and beans, when the thing that actually kills most of us is undiagnosed stress.

        But the state would have us believe longevity is only possible with their intervention, despite its years of failure, consigned to the waste bin of confidentiality.

        I’ll stop here. The beer has been poured down the sink, but the effect remains.

        Even whilst I persistently remind my kids, it’s not the next drink that gets you plastered, it’s the last one, it just ain’t had time to catch us up before the next one we always blame our hangover on.

        :):)

      • HS,

        Unfortunately, it looks as if the EU isn’t going to unravel right away, despite Brexit. I also don’t think that the UK will break up soon, either. Independence would be disastrous for Scotland, but if Scots want to be the Venezuela of the North, so be it. At the very least, England and Wales should also be devolved, so that they have its own parliament, as do NI and Scotland, in addition to the UK talk shop in Westminster.

        Not just Yorkshire, but the whole North of England has historically chafed under the rule of London. If the UK splits up, it might not stop with Scotland. Great Britain could end up not just with Little England, but independent Northern Ireland, Wales, Cornwall, North and South England and London. A 21st century Heptarchy!

        Of course during the original English Heptarchy, there was also a number of Celtic Fringe statelets, too. Scotland is an historical accident, a mashup of Caledonian Picts, Scots invaders from Ireland in the SW, Strathclyde Britons akin to the Welsh also in the SW, Northumbrian and Cumbrian Angles in the SE and, later, Norwegians in the far north, Hebrides, Orkneys and Shetlands. Maybe the odd Dane from Dublin, Cumbria or York thrown into the mix.

        If not for Queen Edward II’s cockup at Bannockburn, there would be no Scotland. If his ueber-capable, warlike dad, fast Eddie I, had lived a bit longer, Scotland would have gotten the Wales treatment and been absorbed into England.

      • Totalitarian and Fascist are not synonyms.
        If it didn’t involve socialistic economic policies, it wasn’t fascism.

      • Republicans aren’t against same sex marriage, just government recognition of them.
        For the simple reason that we knew that as soon as recognition became official, then enforced participation would become mandatory.
        Just ask the bakers who were sued out of existence because they didn’t want to cater a gay wedding.

      • Mark,

        Lots of Republicans are still against same-sex marriage, period. Others say that it should be up to the states, not the federal government, as with abortion, since what constitutes both murder and marriage ought to be state law. Still others are OK not only with same-sex marriage, but with state and federal courts imposing it on an unwilling populace. Trump is in that camp, along with opposite-sex restrooms. But he only recently became a Republican, in order to run for president.

        But I referred to the historical GOP, back in the 1990s and 2000s, before support for same-sex marriage suddenly became a majority opinion in the 2010s.

      • “Unfortunately, it looks as if the EU isn’t going to unravel right away”

        Now we have to start distinguishing conversations. :) Too deep man.

        Brexit will never conform to the 2 year timetable the bureaucrats dictate. It exposes their naïveté in the face of a circumstance that’s not happened before, I suspect, in the history of the world. The UK is, overnight, waltzing off with almost a third of the EU’s GDP, the bulk of the remainder shared between France and Germany (France 20%, Germany, 30%, the UK 20%) which leaves 25 other nations forced to contribute 50% instead of 30% between them to ensure the survival of the EU.

        Make no mistake about it, this is the most earth shattering hit the EU could imagine, financially and socially, to it’s dominance in the world, short of France or Germany joining the UK. Any business losing 20% of it’s turnover overnight would struggle to survive.

        The 2 years terms of article 50 will very quickly be extended to 5 years, then probably 10 years, and the effects will still be reverberating around the EU, if it still exists, in 20 years.

        I agree with you about a break up of the UK. The SNP are on the slide, a hiding to nothing with their single policy domination of the country’s politics. I suspect they will be exposed at the coming general election because most sensible people there would rather be 100% in the UK and 100% out the EU, than 100% out the UK and 100% out the EU. The SNP’s healthcare and education management have been appalling and are, coincidentally, just being exposed now.

        In my belief, Northern Ireland should be part of a one island country. Why the f*ck there is an imaginary political division, fuelled by so called religious bigotry, is quite beyond me. In much the same way that a tiny land, and population mass, on the same island as England and Wales, should be politically and socially demarcated by Scottish independence fanaticism is idiotic.

        In the meantime, I’m not sure if there’s a state in the USA that doesn’t dwarf the UK, yet they are successfully governed by Washington. And I do appreciate there are considerable fiscal and political divisions, but overall, the US is the US.

        And in this day and age, when I can travel from south London by car, and reach North Yorkshire in 4 hours, Scotland in 6, and be in Glasgow or Edinburgh with a nice cup of cocoa in 8 hours, where is the non communication so often cited as a principle division.

        As a government minister with chauffeurs and flight preferences, it would take me less time to fly to Glasgow, 3 hours door to door, than it would to travel by whatever means, door to door, to Cornwall.

        The historical differences conjured up within the UK are ludicrous. You have mentioned but a few, and they don’t bare witness to the day and age we live in now.

        However, you make some good arguments for the historical right to independence Scotland promotes. But what you do fail to state is the variant historical occupation of England. To this day, and by many degrees, England is a centre for cultural divergence, and has been so for hundreds of years.

        Scotland may demand their independence on their terms, but it would just be too bad for Scotland were England to demand the same on their terms.

      • @MarkW

        “Totalitarian and Fascist are not synonyms.
        If it didn’t involve socialistic economic policies, it wasn’t fascism.”

        Sorry mate, but that sounds like it’s been recited from a rule book. Hopefully Brexit and Trump will see the beginning of a rule book shredding, although I’m not holding my breath.

      • “Lots of Republicans are still against same-sex marriage, period.”

        That almost suggest’s Democrats are wholly for same sex marriage. Which I’m almost certain isn’t the case.

        Which get’s me back to Libertarianism.

        Why is it a government’s job to decide who f*cks who?

        Have we ever encountered a ‘moral’ government?

        These people who have been proven to (at least in the UK) lie and cheat routinely, are sitting in judgement, arbitrarily, on human nature?

        We need to get rid of these parasites (wrong term as parasites are a useful addition to nature) instead of discussing them and their so called value to society.

        Or is it down to the Church, which dictates that the pinnacle of Gods creation won’t lie together in a same sex bed. But watch two dogs playing, irrespective of gender, they will invariably try to hump one another. But at least they don’t go round shooting each other. So is that Gods equation? If you can evolve to killing people efficiently, you shouldn’t try to hump one another? If you can use a knife and fork, a computer, drive a car or bow down in front of an alter, somehow that makes us different from the mammals we evolved from?

        Oi! Chimp, pay attention and stop picking your nose!

        :):)

  16. This is definitely a job for this Pontiff. He is the most senior representative of one of the world’s largest belief systems where empirical testing of dogma and debate of canonical utterances are absolutely forbidden. Yes, this is right up his alley.

  17. It’s too bad that the Pope has succumbed to the pure evil disguised as benevolence being promulgated by the IPCC, UNFCCC and others. But then again, climate science has much in common with faith based religions. Is this a sign that the last Pope Prophecy might be true?

  18. As far as rhetoric, Trump is very unclear on climate change. Most of his actual actions with EPA and such do not seem to be pleasing to the greens, so the verbiage might be a smokescreen.

  19. Instead, Trump will convert the Pope to capitalism. After all, religion is a damn’ good business.

    • @texasjimbrock,

      Your direction is fine, but an institution selling an idea on a fairy tail isn’t good business.

      Who was it said, ‘I do not fear death, I have been dead for billions of years and it caused me no inconvenience’?

      A ‘business’ provides a fair, tangible, return on an investment.

      The Church generates money through fear of the unknown, despite the unknown being the norm.

      Personally, I think today is our punishment, were I to believe in the preaching of religion.

      Hell on Earth. A profoundly succinct statement. Death may indeed be a release from the sins of our unknown past.

  20. In Somalia people are starving to death; the Jemen is hunted by cholera.

    The pope doesn’t mention because “it’s in the hands of God”.

    – environment is not “in the hands of God” ?

    some nitpicking ‘ Keeper of the lambs ‘.

      • Griff,

        I read your first link and there was no mention of climate. So no idea why you’re introducing it as an argument in a debate on his political imposition, on a subject that he should have no influence over, considering his beliefs are predicated on a scientifically unsound source.

        Now whilst that nasty hypocrite dispenses the wisdom of benevolence, understanding, peace and generosity, he presides over an oppressed, celibate clergy who chose to bugger children to satisfy their natural carnal desires.

        He condemns contraception, even a damn condom; when his clergy’s buggering of children is proven to spread AIDS, never mind the concept of lifelong mental anguish. And he condemns abortion, even when it’s desirable, or even necessary, in an intellectually evolving global community.

        Never mind that he wanders round the Vatican, and the rest of the world, adorned in finery when his saviour demanded a preference for humility and rags.

        As an atheist, I like the idea of God and Jesus, but there’s no way on earth anyone can convince me either would subject humanity to the cruelty he has presided over.

        Apparently he gave us his son, our one, and only chance to redeem ourselves, and when we rejected him, he abandoned us. Since then, he has taken billions of children from the arms of their grieving parents as punishment, whilst saying, ‘I’ll look after them, you’re not good enough’.

        What an effing shining example of tolerance and generosity.

  21. The Pope will need to use the Jedi mind trick to convince Trump that US reduction in CO2 emissions or forced US spending on green scams will in any way affect ‘climate change’.

    Green scams do not work (limitation of wind and solar is roughly 10% of average electrical grid output without storage, actual reduction is reduced by energy to construct scheme and lose of grid efficiency due to on/off/off/off power generation).

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/11/22/shocker-top-google-engineers-say-renewable-energy-simply-wont-work/

    The key problem appears to be that the cost of manufacturing the components of the renewable power facilities is far too close to the total recoverable energy – the facilities never, or just barely, produce enough energy to balance the budget of what was consumed in their construction. This leads to a runaway cycle of constructing more and more renewable plants simply to produce the energy required to manufacture and maintain renewable energy plants – an obvious practical absurdity.
    A research effort by Google corporation to make renewable energy viable has been a complete failure, according to the scientists who led the programme. After 4 years of effort, their conclusion is that renewable energy “simply won’t work”.

    China and India have a free pass, however, it does not make any difference how much CO2 a country does or does not emit as the IPCC used fake science to create CAGW.

    https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/endangermentcommentsv7b1.pdf

    “Technical Support Document for Endangerment Analysis for Greenhouse Gas Emissions under the Clean Air Act”
    “I have become increasingly concerned that EPA has itself paid too little attention to the science of global warming. EPA and others have tended to accept the findings reached by outside groups, particularly the IPCC and the CCSP, as being correct without a careful and critical examination of their conclusions and documentation. If they should be found to be incorrect at a later date, however, and EPA is found not to have made a really careful independent review of them before reaching its decisions on endangerment, it appears likely that it is EPA rather than these other groups that may be blamed for any errors. Restricting the source of inputs into the process to these two sources may make EPA’s current task easier but it may come with enormous costs later if they should result in policies that may not be scientifically supportable.
    The failings are listed below in decreasing order of importance in my view: (See attached for details.)
    1. Lack of observed upper tropospheric heating in the tropics (see Section 2.9 for a detailed discussion).
    2. Lack of observed constant humidity levels, a very important assumption of all the IPCC models, as CO2levels have risen (see Section 1.7).
    3. The most reliable sets of global temperature data we have, using satellite microwave sounding units, show no appreciable temperature increases during the critical period 1978-1997, just when the surface station data show a pronounced rise (see Section 2.4). Satellite data after 1998 is also inconsistent with the GHG/CO2/AGW hypothesis 2009 v
    4. …. and so on.

  22. I suppose there was debate and conflict among the dinosaurs right up to the second that the large-class meteor hit. That too did pass.

    • “I suppose there was debate and conflict among the dinosaurs right up to the second that the large-class meteor hit.”

      Humans are actually doing that today, even with the knowledge of just how dangerous these incoming bodies can be. The dinosaurs may have failed to do something about their plight, but they were ignorant of it. What’s our excuse?

      • For a tiny fraction of the tens of trillions squandered on so-called “Green energy”, we could have a planetary defense system against Earth-crossing asteroids and comets.

      • Chimp,

        whilst I agree with you on the defence system, seriously, does it really matter?

        In the scheme of things, planet earth and it’s inhabitants are inconsequential, despite what we may believe.

        So a rock hits us. Will it make any difference whatsoever to the universe?

        And even if our individual deaths lasted weeks, or even years, would that suffering matter to anything else in the universe?

        Not a bit. And in many ways, the climate debate is just as futile. We should probably just let the insane green maniacs get on with bankrupting the world. It doesn’t stop people growing food, nor breeding animals for food. Laughably, the largely domesticated greeny wouldn’t have a clue how to fish, hunt or cultivate land, other than in a window box.

        In short, they would starve and the rest of us capable of leading a life of real conservation, which is the natural human desire to conserve his future, will evolve and leave the greens to their ignorant, stupid poverty.

        And yes, tonight I have had a beer!

        I think I’ll pour the remainder down the sink.

      • HS,

        Another mass extinction wouldn’t matter to the universe, but it would to those living at the time. Most humans have an interest in continuing to live, even those who recognize that life is meaningless, except in so far as we manage to make our own meaning.

      • Chimp,

        again, whilst I largely agree with you about our common desire to continue living, is it reasonable for our alarmist cousins to terrorise our communities with tales of impending doom.

        It is pre medieval behaviour. Over the last several thousand years humankind has successfully sought to improve it’s lot, with barely a sniff of science. Along comes science and incredible knowledge is somehow converted into a lust for intellectual barbarism.

        However, I profoundly disagree with you that a mass extinction would matter to those at the time. A millisecond following a mass extinction would matter to no one but survivors.

        Your dog dies, you feel grief, the dog feels nothing we know of. You cry, and the dog doesn’t give a monkeys. Who are you crying for, you or the dog?

        And it’s religion that’s given us that entirely selfish and fearful response to death. Without it, survivors of a mass extinction would celebrate their survival rather than mourne their loss. Which would be a damn site more productive than the churches promotion of more and more lavish ‘celebrations’ of death.

        The best I can hope for in life is that I die painlessly. The most I can hope for in death is that my life is celebrated with the cremation of my remains, in anonymity.

        And whilst I don’t believe in the geezer, may God forbid anyone spends more than one minute of their life, mourning mine. I’ll accept a minute of remembrance amongst my immediate family, that’s all. The rest I hope will remember me for what I am, not some misty eyed illusion. However, probably few recollections will be favourable.

        What I neither want, nor need, is some liberal green fanatic telling me how to live the limited years I had from birth, when my parents, and grandparents, and probably theirs, fought wars against communism and fascism, to ensure those green lunatics had the freedom to spew their bile.

        Peace at any cost is beyond man’s grasp right now.

        Damn! How many rant’s can one person have in a few hours?

        Sorry.

      • HS,

        It’s reasonable from their standpoint, just as priesthoods and their political masters have always used fear of terrible consequences to exploit the masses.

  23. I wrote this some time ago.

    Pope Francis — The Useful Idiot
    Sings A Famous Religious Song

    (I)
    I don’t care if it rains and freezes
    Long as I got my plastic Jesus
    Riding on the dashboard of my car
    I’m driving fast to where I’m going
    Horn a’honking, headlights glowing
    Racing to that global climate war!

    It’s Armageddon straight ahead!
    For just as Adam Smith has said
    Creating wealth sets each against all others!
    The Covenant within the Ark
    Is best fulfilled through Karl Marx
    Shared poverty will make us Christian brothers!

    (II)
    I preach a new Theology
    Derived from Climatology
    My alter is the dashboard of my car
    I had a vision, went to buy a
    Naked, windup, plastic Gaia
    I serve her in the global climate war!

    For Gaia mends the Trinity
    She is the third Divinity
    God feminine as Christ was made a male
    In all the nations they will herald
    The Moving Spirit Of The World
    — Who bobs Her head and shakes Her tail!

    Eugene WR Gallun

  24. “Resourceguy on May 18, 2017 at 9:25 am

    I suppose there was debate and conflict among the dinosaurs right up to the second that the large-class meteor hit. That too did pass.”
    ____________________________________________

    Resource guy, because you just mentioned –

    right, God still remembers !

    • For all we know Resource guy could be right about the dinosaurs. There could have been an agrarian dinosaur society and we wouldn’t find any clue to that millions of years later. We have still only dug up a fraction of the dinosaur types with new ones being found every year. Most are identified with a limited amount of bones recovered.

    • Note that man-made “climate change” isn’t a pimple on the posterior of the impact which caused the K/T mass extinction, along with CO2-spewing flood basalt volcanism from the Dekkan Traps, Yet there was no long-lasting effect on climate from those titanic geologic events. The Cretaceous Period was warm and followed by the still warm Paleocene and Eocene Epochs.

      The last two ages of the Cretaceous were a little cooler than the hot mid-Cretaceous ages, when much of North America was covered by inland, epicontinental seas and the Rockies were rising. The hottest part of the early Cenozoic, the two epochs mentioned, were warm but a little less so than the mid-Cretaceous, which was the balmiest interval of the Mesozoic and Cenozoic Eras, possibly of the entire Phanerozoic Eon, to include the long Paleozoic Era.

      So if the climatic effects of such catastrophes were short-lived, how could man-made “climate change” possibly cause runaway warming? The effects did of course last long enough to kill off many plant and animal species, but that death and destruction probably happened very rapidly, from effects not associated with man-made GHGs.

  25. Monsignor Marcelo Sanchez, Chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, isn’t he the one who kept the skeptics from presenting their views to the Pope??

  26. Trump is more likely to convert this Communist cleric to capitalism and a married, heterosexual clergy than than the paedophile-protecting pope is to convert the president to the false religion of CACA.

  27. Maybe Trump can engineer a palace counter-coup against the Marxist usurper and bring the overthrown, real Christian pope out of “retirement”, ie imprisonment.

  28. The Pope has no business being so worried about this planet,as he is supposed be laying the groundwork to help his flock go to a better place then this one.

    His meddling in the affairs of this world, in my view damages his legitimacy as a “vicar on Earth”, one who was supposed to prepare his flock to leave Earth.

  29. This Pope is seeking to do to the Church and the world what Hugo Chavez did to Venezuela. This disgustingly transparent take over of the organizations that have helped so many by tiny group if extremists who embrace the most vile and deadly beliefs ever is deeply disturbing.

  30. I invite the Pope and the good Monsignor Marcelo Sanchez to set the example for all of their flock world-wide and be the first to end their use of fossil fuels and live only on renewable energy, as they wish others to do.

    Only when such “leaders” decide to actually lead their adherents into such poverty will they realize what “the science” really is, and how much of modern life is completely dependent upon those dastardly oil companies.

    • The faux pope could start by giving up the air conditioning which he finds so evil when used by mere mortals, not vicars of God.

  31. Trump may well be a lot more astute than the backsliders and Democritters think. After 8 years of appeasement of North Korea a few choice words from Trump, a wandering Nimitz class carrier and he now has both Russia and China lining up troops on the Border against North Korea. It seems the only action Obama would have taken would be to demand more transgender bathrooms in Pyongyang. So now we have the three superpowers glaring across the border at fat Kimmy instead of supporting him. Not a bad achievement for a 100 day President. His failure to get the number of transgender bathrooms increased in North Korea will no doubt be the subject of next weeks Washington Post attack. Cry Trump and let slip the dogs of war.
    If anyone has stood outside the massive wall that surrounds Vatican city it will be obvious that Trump will ask for the name of the builders before he leaves!

    • It is Pope Leo IV’s wall. To construct the wall, he used his estate workers, inhabitants from the surrounding countryside, Saracens captured after the sea battle of Ostia in 849 and funding from an imperial Frankish donation. Yup, that’s right. Involuntary M@slim immigrants built his wall.

      BTW, CVN Reagan has now put to sea from Japan, so with the Vinson CSG there are two USN carrier strike groups in the vicinity of the Nork Kimdom.

    • During the Western Great Schism, AD 1378-1414, there were always two, at least once three and, at the end, four popes.

      Since then, I don’t know.

  32. I understand that when the pope meets Trump, instead wearing a skull cap the pope will wear a propeller beanie signifying his commitment to wind power.

    Eugene WR Gallun

  33. No matter what, The big guy, the Pope, still got to be in the cue, the long [pruned]

    cheers

    Please do forgive me my harshness….

    • that is funny, my comment has being pruned…..I love it..:)
      It still does not change the truth if one list the self as the greatest sucking prost…it is as simple as that….a prost….

  34. In my parts of Europe as long ago as 1054 (Schism of 1054) people decided they had enough of popes and the papal pontifications. Pope and Patriarch mutually excommunicated each other; it lasted until 1965, when the excommunications were lifted.

  35. “they will come to an agreement, since the president claims to be a Christian, and so he will listen to him.”

    Anyone saying this really cannot understand the history of America. The pope does not have a whole lot of influence over people in the US. In my experience catholics are in the minority among Christians there.

    • Not only that, but, as noted above, few US Catholics pay much attention to the pope’s opinions.

      The US RC Church is practically independent. It’s more liberal on social issues than the pope and many adherents are more conservative on economic issues. This pope is popular with “Progressive” Catholics but decidedly unpopular with conservatives, despite the fawning welcome he received in a GOP-controlled Congress.

  36. Dose the Catholic Church understand the concept of the separation of powers?
    They seem to need to pull their heads in to me

  37. We know very well in Argentina who these priests are: Pope Francis (aka Bergoglio -we refuse to call him Pope) and his friend Sánchez Sorondo are well known supporters of the former corrupt goverment of the ultra leftists Kirchners, and in the late 60s a former member of the fascist group of Iron Guard, a “guard de corp” of late dictator Juan Peron. But much worse, Bergoglio’s main scientific adviser is self declared atheist Hans-Joakim Schellnhuber, the ultra warmist from PYK, the German Postdam Institute of Climate Research. President Trump is no fool and cannot be trumped by Bergoglio.

    • Wouldn’t work. Pence’s parents were Irish Catholic Democrats. So was he until early adulthood, when he converted both to Evangelical Protestantism and political conservatism. Dunno which conversion saddened his mom more, Protestant or Republican.

  38. Nothing personal, and with all due respect, but he’s not a scientist or climate expert, so why should anyone listen to him about stuff like that?

    And the way he’s been going lately, why should anyone listen to him about religion, which he is supposed to be an expert about, but it’s not obvious to me or lots of other people?,

  39. OK with me:

    kreizkruzifix on May 18, 2017 at 7:07 pm

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    Sheri, and reading James Bliss you’ll see why the Pope NEVER can accept ‘climate deniers’ as human beings before the eyes of his god.
    __________________________________________

    but that’s FUNDAMENTALS !

  40. that’s the boundaries between

    Green belivers + Democrats + liberals + conservative republicans

    and

    science + Trump + the real world

    outside

    a solipsistic self protecting world view.

  41. “Instead, the Pope followed what the scientific community says.”

    Instead of following Christ, it seems that the Pope has chosen to put his trust in the arm of flesh and follow the scientific community. “And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.” Trying to mold church doctrine to match what the scientific community says is a fool’s errand. Science has changed a great deal over its history, and there is no reason to think it won’t change in the future. So even if you were to succeed in bringing church doctrine into harmony with the science of today, it would be in discord with the science of tomorrow.

  42. In the year 1992, after all of 13 years investigation (can you believe that?) the Vatican admitted that its rejection of Galilieo’s claim was drivel.
    So in the year 2374, after 13 years of investigation, the Vatican will admit that its Laudato Si was drivel and that an American Presidential candidate Trump was spot on in 2016.
    Vatican minds are not closed to reason but, non dieu, they’re slow!

  43. Since the Pope is not a trained climate scientist, he does not have an appropriate opinion regarding the real cause of climate change. Since the climate change we have been experiencing is caused by the sun and the oveans over which Mankind has no control, the Pope would be better off praying for a better climate.

  44. Laudado Si. I don’t know Latin however to me it marked the end of my relationship with the Catholic Church.

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