Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach. [See Update at end]
First, I heard three of the best, most moving, heartfelt, and real speeches of the election yesterday and today, from Trump, Clinton, and Obama. My congratulations to all three of them for a statesman-like response to the outcome.
Next, when I was a kid, the Democrats were the party of the poor and the Republicans were the party of the rich. However, somehow that changed when I wasn’t looking, and that is not now the case. See the results below. The wealthier the state, the more people voted for Hillary.
Finally, the chart below also reveals the reason that the talking heads were so shocked by the outcome … see the one state with 93% Hillary votes way up at the top there?
That’s the District of Columbia, which is more than 10 to 1 liberal … and they wonder why they don’t know any Trump supporters, why they have no idea of the pulse of the country, and why they thought he could never win? They’re stuck inside the Beltway Bubble, with the usual reality field distortion that occurs there.
My best to everyone on both sides. My hope is that we can all reach across the aisle and recognize that this is a huge chance for us to change a government which is frankly not working. We may not agree on any given proposed fix, but I do think we can agree that the present gridlock is intolerable.
UPDATE: At the request of a friend, I’ve expanded the analysis to include the 2008 election which brought Obama to power. Here’s the comparison:
This shows a couple of things. First, Obama got about the same support in the wealthy states, and more support in the poor states, compared with Clinton.
More interesting is the change in the District of Columbia. It would be hard for DC to vote more liberal than it was under Obama at 92% … but Hillary got it up to 93%.
Most interesting is that during this time, the overall average income in the states hardly changed at all … but the pluted bloatocrats in DC saw their incomes rise by about 25% … is it any wonder that folks inside the Beltway Bubble think the economy is fixed and everything is proceeding just fine in this best of all possible worlds? Hey, they’re getting rich, what could be wrong?
Best to all,
w.
As Always: I, like most folks, can defend my own words and claims. However, nobody can defend themselves against a misunderstanding of their own words. So to prevent misunderstanding, please quote the exact words that you disagree with. That way we can all be clear regarding the exact nature of your objection.
She wanted to give her concession remarks to her “loyal” supporters, not the amalgamated peasantry assembled at the Javits center. The democrat contempt for the proletariat remains strong and unbowed
Jeez, I don’t like Hillary at all, but the woman had just suffered the crushing of her lifelong dream … sorry she wasn’t up to coming out right away, but if it were me I’d be too busy cussing and punching the walls to make any coherent pronouncement.
Now in her case it might be cussing and weeping instead of punching the walls, but cut her some slack—despite believing she’d already won, despite being told by every individual around her that the crown was already hers, she’d just found out that her last, final, never-to-be-repeated chance at the brass ring was a shocking totally unexpected failure, and her political life was over.
w.
If she isn’t adult enough to suck it up and do the right thing, then she isn’t adult enough to be president.
With the exception of Gore and Kerry, every other presidential loser has been able to deal with this same crushing defeat.
When a felon threatens your family, and then fails to follow through on it through circumstances beyond their control, I have no sympathy for how they “feel” about their loss.
Maybe the voters are stuck inside the Beltway, but the lawmakers are not. They vote in their home state.
When they calculate the total Population of 601,723 where 280,282 voted on Tuesday or 46.6% of population of DC, do they count the lawmakers who are living there but do not vote there?
Perhaps this better explains the vote: White 38% Non-white 62%
Black 51%
White 38%
Hispanic/Latino 9%
Other 7%
Asian 3%
mixed 2%
Most people simply don’t think thorough things enough. What is the perception of the ideal of the democratic party? Equality for races, sexual tolerance, helping the needier people of society, religious tolerance (or non-religious tolerance), environmental protection, aversion to military spending. All things any educated, enlightened person thinks are good things. What they don’t see by NOT thinking are the core values of the party leaders which are big, centralized government, social control, forced equality by income distribution, population reduction and de-industrialization.
Unless you can get people to see the dark side of the force, they are going to stay liberal.
Sorry but this moderate Democrat disagrees with your conclusions. Not all Democrats subscribe to all of this as I am sure Republicans and NPA’s are not all the same.
hornblower, you are right. The level of political comment and rhetoric here at WUWT has risen steadily during the run-up to this election, hopefully it will go back to more moderate levels after the current orgy of congratulatory strutting wears itself out. The right-wing cohort has invested so much of their hopes in Mr. Trump, you can’t really blame them for blowing off steam.
I expect we’ll go back to postings about science, with a good sprinkling of entertainment from looking at the absurdities of warmist dogma. It’s the humour that arises from poking fun at climate insanity that makes WUWT so popular (IMHO); it gets a bit boring being serious all the time.
Those whose anti-cli-sci stance is politically based.are welcome here, as they should be, because it’s here they can learn stuff, or learn about stuff, that gives them talking points and facts to support their position. The struggle against the tyranny of climate believers and the anti-human policies they promote, is (IMHO again) the most important fight of our time. It is important that those who believe in science, truth and reason work together to spread the word and try and end the madness.
I wasn’t going to say this, but now I’m wound up, I fear for Trump. The mainstream media put huge efforts into demonizing him, and it obviously didn’t work very well. We can expect a redoubling of their efforts, now he’s in power. It will not be pretty, of that we can be sure. The agents of greenery are everywhere; they are extremely well funded, and they will stop at nothing to advance their agenda, which is a thinly disguised attempt to enrich their cronies in the wind/solar complex while systematically dismantling western industrial society
@ur momisugly Hornblower,
Warmists got their basic fact (CO2 caused climate to change) wrong.
You have made a similar mistake by saying –
“As long as we are a democracy”
The US is not a democracy… it is a representative republic .
I do agree that WUWT is the go to site for climate discussion & there are plenty of other sites for partisan political discussion.
BUT
WUWT contributors have taken a decision to discus politics…an example of democracy at work.
I hope we can get back to climate soon.
“I wasn’t going to say this, but now I’m wound up, I fear for Trump. The mainstream media put huge efforts into demonizing him, and it obviously didn’t work very well. We can expect a redoubling of their efforts, now he’s in power. It will not be pretty, of that we can be sure.”
I’m not sure they could redouble their efforts, they were operating at a very high level trashing Trump during the last few weeks, but I wouldn’t doubt they will at least continue their current drumbeat of negativity.
Our “Ace in the Hole” is Trump himself. He withstood all the Left’s attacks and came out the winner, and I think he is going to continue to do that, and he will have more help since it looks like more Republicans are rallying around him now that he is the President-Elect.
The Leftwig Media is the most powerful weapon the Left has in the ideological wars. Trump is our most potent countermeasure, and now he will have the “Bully Pulpit” of the presidency.
The Leftwing Media has lost a lot of credibility over their efforts to take down Trump. They should start paying attention to their bottomlines, if they are smart. Their business model, Leftwing propaganda all the time, needs to change, if they want to stay in business.
Actually, the national Dumpocrap Party wants to increase the illegal immigrant population while decreasing the citizen and legal immigrant population. They hate America and Americans, so want to create a whole new population.
Many lack the mental capacity to see logic and reasoning as preferable to their emotionally charged thought processes.
Nonsense! I guess there is no way we can communicate. I will say good night.
+1
Thus providing evidence of my point. Rather than note that I said many, and not all, blowhard threw a tantrum, stomped his feet, and left.
And hornblower demonstrates the truth of Mark T’s comment.
MarkT,
I don’t agree with everything you say, nor do I always like your “tone”, but I can say that over the years I have observed that those on the left are more likely to say “I believe that…” rather than “I think that…” than those on the right. The other thing that I have noticed is that the lefties more often than not HATE their opponents, while the righties simply disagree with them. Of course, you can always find exceptions to such generalities, but that does not invalidate my observations.
A quote that I first heard way back in the 70’s.
Conservatives think that liberals are stupid.
Liberals think that conservatives are evil.
As Hillary told her Goldman Sachs audience, her dream is open borders and globalization along Soros’ lines, so that there are just stateless, powerless worker bee drones and the global elite exploiting them.
Thank God for Trump. My family, friends and I gave his campaign all we legally could. Clinton of course, isn’t subject to campaign finance laws anymore than she is national security rules or charitable foundation regulations.
I suggest that a large portion of the population has never been thought to think critically and seeks to be instructed by the media, regarding positions on current affairs. That segment is only slightly smaller than the critical free-thinkers by the latest census. Shall we teach the youth science, or politics?
Public schooling isn’t education but indoctrination.
Sorry, that should be “taught to think critically”
How meaningful, DC is the home of the public service, this is how infiltrated the US government is. Until that number is 50/50 the US doesn’t have a balanced public service. It’s a big job but the right needs to become activist which of course is against the nature of small-government individualist types. Individualists are hounded out of government jobs – they need to be protected and promoted.
We live in a mediocrity, by definition exceptional people are not near the social centroid that workplace tools (like say 360 degree assessment) encourage. Government and to some extent business need to eschew those socialist tools that force people to be clones of each other and reward individual endeavor, loyalty, and courageousness.
Right on Willis.
The Democrat party has abandoned the little guy in favour of a well graduated elite professional class. The contempt with which they treat working folks makes my blood boil. They have betrayed the American Dream. Hillary and her lying triangulating ilk truly deserve the smack upside the head that they just received. Here’s an essay by Thomas Frank that makes that point.
For anyone who wonders how we got into this miserable situation, I recommend Listen Liberal! by Thomas Frank.
The American Dream is dead and the Democrat party did the dirty deed.
Listen Liberal – Thomas Frank – He lost me in the intro, when he claimed that global warming was one of the three great threats facing America.
I don’t think global warming is mentioned anywhere in the book. It is mentioned in the book review that I linked and is the opinion of the reviewer rather than Frank himself.
I just reread the introduction and couldn’t find a reference to global warming. The index doesn’t have any reference to the words: global, warming, climate, change, soviet, threat, etc. My copy is paper so I can’t do a text search. Notwithstanding that, I really don’t think he mentioned global warming in the book.
In other writings, Frank does disagree with Trump about many things, including global warming. I forgive him for that. He clearly hasn’t thought deeply about the subject. Dismissing his careful research on the sins of the Democrat party, based on his opinion about global warming, is like dismissing Roy Spencer’s climate work based on his Christianity.
I think that when liberals like Hillary or Obama promise more jobs, they are Government jobs, not private sector jobs, or small business jobs.
Let’s hope that free market capitalism, not government capitalism (not crony capitalism) will re emerge, and real wealth making jobs – will emerge……
jpp
I saw an article yesterday that more people work for the government than work in manufacturing.
There is a word for “government capitalism”, for there isn’t such a thing. That word starts with “s”. There are two main varieties, yet they have the same results. They simply don’t work.
Actions speak louder than words. Results matter more than intentions.
Memetics trumps statistics …
I weep for my children and grandchildren.
Indeed. Perception and consciousness is paramount. Sadly the cup-cake/snow-flake generation is desperately lacking in critical thinking and have already been captured. All your iPhones are us.
But such is evolution. Big data and social media need to be “democratised” somehow; bots used to troll elections is somewhat unacceptable. At least for IQ90s on MSNBC reincarnated progressively going backwards on the impending pendulum swing. But hey, for now let’s just look out of the window and pontificate on crowds marching on Trump Tower. The sun will rise again tomorrow no doubt.
“The wealthier the state, the more people voted for Hillary.”
This election has been divided along the lines of education; and yes, more education means more wealth in general. Hillary is the pants suit graduate from Wellesly College. These educated women have been her base, her appeal, her supporters. The wannabes and the coastal elites groove on the progressive message, free money for a college education. The person whom you left out of the messaging was Bernie Sanders.
I’m afraid that the truck driver from East Liverpool Ohio is one of the last lower middle class occupations left for many who are high school graduates. Skill sets like programers, coders, and engineers are needed to both elevate people into the middle class as well as provide motivation and opportunity in a developing world. There are just too many global hands for the work available. Who will tell students that such is the case? That resistance to this message is futile? Otherwise, those uneducated, become part of the Borg Collective.
The 93% is clearly an outlier and needs to be homogenised out of the data set.
As I’ve already noted, the entire dataset is suspect, at least, the claimed correlation is.
I might have read that Cookie, Lew, Phil and Mikey checked the data and found it was actually 97%.
Well D’oh.
Sure it’s the only non-state in the list.
As an outside observer, and a firm believer that social issues as well as climate issues are not one dimensional, I will say once more that “correlation does not imply causation”..
As others have observed income is highly correlated with education. I will also observe that income and education are highly correlated with IQ. IQ is correlated with the ability to see patterns and their effects.
The average IQ is 100 . I do not know if by now people at that level can go to college . If so , that is half of any population below 100 stay at a low educational level.
As an outsider, I saw this election as choosing between the lesser of two “evils” . The perception of what is “good for me and therefore for the country” is dependent on the ability of pattern recognition and projecting the results of actions to the future.
In Greece we have had a similar experience: the party and the person who promised return of salaries and benefits to pre crisis levels won in 2015, and led the country into further debt and dependency. It needs a level of education to be able to project the promises and their effects to the future.
“Do you want a raise in pensions and salaries?”
So, in my opinion, it is mainly the educational level that drives the curves, admittedly in a wholly correlated and many parameter system.
Median IQ for the whole population is 100. Median IQ for Democrats is 90; for Independents 100 and for Republicans 110.
Chimp IQ … 143 !
Mean of HS grads 105, mean of college grads 115
Phil, break that out by degree. I suspect “Studies” graduates are on average below 100, while engineering graduates definitely drag up that curve.
Science and Engineering ~125, Education and Social Studies ~110,
I live in a state that went Trump +48. I have already heard from Democrats that this makes me a very horrible person. In fact, in our Republican primary we nominated Rubio not Trump, but Trump was the choice we had by the time of the election. Nearly everything in this state runs on mining and the energy industry especially fossil fuels. Moreover, wechave such a small and close-knit population that everyone knows what butters their bread here–there is little magical thinking. The Obama Administration has carried on a war, sometimes openly and sometimes subtlety against these industries and agriculture too. Effectively 80% of livelihoods directly or indirectly under assault in some way. I cannot say that all our current troubles stem from the Obama Administration, but plenty do. Hillary promised more of the same and worse. We voted heavily against her. This is called voting one’s self interest. Or at least it is when Democrats do it.
Being labeled in an ugly manner by media and far away partisans provides no basis for reaching out to anyone.
Wealth follows market size to a great degree. Urban areas are large markets and the shear volume of economic activity promotes greater wealth. Rural areas have less population, smaller markets, and less wealth. Incomes are lower as are costs of living in rural areas. However, Federal tax rates, mandates, regulation and minimum wages apply universally. What results is often unintended frustration. People in wealthier California think of themselves as subsidizing states like Mississippi and complain that the latter are freeloaders because they pay less in taxes than they receive in Federal money; but it is hard to imagine a different outcome given market sizes, wealth distribution, and progressive income taxes. There are hard feelings generated all the way around, but little effort to understand.
Interesting comment re apparent wealth and political leanings.
My wife & I live and work in rural Western Australia; she teaches at the local senior high school and I am a retired chemist who tries to manage our small farm. We thoughtfully consider ourselves to hold values and beliefs that align with conservative thinking. We were raised as Protestant Christians, but do not attend a church and really have little time for organised religion.
We have friends who come and visit us occasionally. The husband is a Project manager with an international engineering consultancy and the wife works for a Labor (aka Democrat) State politician.
They each drive late model Lexus cars and reside in a near city development close to the Swan River.
By any measure they are well-off and enjoy the good life. Politically they are strongly on the Left.
What this means? Dunno!
It means anecdote.
Willis, there’s this too. In some ways the opposite and yet not.
The DC results are not really outlier in nature. I haven’t done a deep dive into the country-wide urban election results, but anybody familiar with American politics are well aware that when looking at the results, you typically see a sea of red on a county level, with urban areas the true bastions of Democratic power. In this past election, when looking at the truly urban counties like the heart of Philadelphia, for instance, you’ll see an 82% result for the Democratic candidate.
It is, what it is…
BREAKING NEWS : Trump’s transition inspectors visit EPA, DoJ, NOAA, etc. Live footage of events:
https://youtu.be/pRE23YfSvc8
I think a plot of the Trump data illustrating the DIFFERENCE between the two groups would be more enlightening.
Found an interesting comparison – less people voted for Trump than how many voted for Republican candidate in previous two presidential elections. He won because Democrats lost even more.
http://i.imgur.com/TOGIbcP.jpg
There is even more information to be gleaned from the way the counties/states voted.
Washington DC on my near-complete count figures was Clinton 92.8%, Trump 4.1%.
This result was from the bureaucrats who write the regulations and are seldom wrong.
But, next door in Virginia, Cl 49.9%, Tr 45%.
Put one way, Trump was 10 times more popular once you crossed the border going west.
There must be socio-economic reasons why this happened. Like, some industries exist in one place, not in the other. It would be fascinating to take places like this pair and drill down to smaller and smaller adjacent areas to see if a measurable set of differences can be quantified.
It reminds me of those early Landsat images on the TexMex border. Order into chaos at farming scale.
OTOH, is there a strong factor of how people’s intentions are influenced by those around them every day? It must be difficult for analysts to separate out multiple causes, but with such strong contrasts in % votes across borders, there must be hope of useful answers.
So far I have not met one single person in Britain who thinks that the election of Trump is a good thing. We find it completely unfathomable that in the modern world a country would elect a narcissistic, racist, tax evading businessman with who thinks it’s OK to grope women. He wouldn’t survive two minutes even being employed in most firms here making the sort of comments he makes – he would be fired. And before anyone says that it’s not our problem, actually it is. My daughter of 14 and all her friends are already worried sick about having a politically inexperienced and potentially unbalanced man with a finger on the nuclear button. But the point that has already been made by others here is that this site is about climate change. I’m fairly left wing yet I am interested in questioning whether the alarmists are really right and follow this site with interest. But I still want to feel that we can live in a world where we respect and look after our precious environment regardless of our views about AGW. In order to create a really vibrant and acceptable debate out there it’s so important not to appear politically biased, otherwise you just frighten off all those on the same end of the political spectrum as me and questioning man made climate change just becomes a laughable obsession of the right.
Jenny Life November 10, 2016 at 3:26 am
Jenny, you don’t get it, no surprise, you don’t live here.
Trump was elected by the people who are the only racial group that it is OK to hate—poor and middle-class whites. They feel, and quite rightly, that they have been abandoned by their own government—as they watched the tech bubble make millionaires, as they watch the recovery after the last crash, their own wages HAVEN’T GONE UP IN THIRTY YEARS. To the contrary, the liberal dream of borderless worlds and free trade has meant that their jobs are now being done by some guy in China who is willing to work for a dry place to sleep and three beans a day.
Meanwhile, they watch as the values and virtues that they hold dear are mocked by elites and late-night comedians.
So … do you truly expect them to vote for Hillary, a corrupt member of that very government elite that has ignored and insulted them for thirty years, a woman who was willing to cheat in the debates by secretly obtaining the questions in advance so that she could look prepared, a woman who described them as “deplorables”?
Really? That makes sense to you?
Maybe Brits would be foolish enough do that, but Americans have thankfully passed that opportunity by, NOT because people think Trump is some prince, but because we know that Hillary is as crooked as the day is long and those were our only choices
Why on earth would he want to work for a British firm? He BUYS British firms, he doesn’t work for them. You are applying the wrong standard.
I’m sorry, but your daughter’s inchoate and groundless fears are not our problem. Look, Donald Trump inherited a million dollars, and he turned it into a billion dollars. You don’t do that by shooting from the hip. Yes, he’s got a big mouth on him, he’ll say anything, but he has proven very successful. Which lets me know that his big mouth is just that, and that when it comes time to make a deal and make things work, he can set all that aside. “Potentially unbalanced”? Sorry, your amateur psychoanalyzing simply doesn’t fit the facts about the man and his history.
And as for “politically inexperienced”, we’ve nearly been done to death by experienced politicians, you know, the ones who sent all our jobs to China while they worried about important issues like political correctness. Sorry, I’ll pass on politicians, experienced or otherwise.
No, it’s not, and it never has been. It is about all kinds of interesting things in the world. Ask Anthony if you don’t believe me.
Like you, I’m fairly left wing. And like you, I want to live in a world where we take care of our environment. Not sure what this has to do with Trump.
There are folks here who are Clinton supporters, this is not some exclusive site.
Look, I agree that Trump is a brash loudmouthed insensitive jerk. But our professional political class, including the political elite families like the Bushes and the Clintons and the rest, have failed us. Not only have they failed us, but their candidate was hopelessly corrupt. Even her supporters can’t deny she used stolen information in the debates, it’s all there in black and white. And because fish rot from the head down, Donna Brazile had to RESIGN as the head of the DNC for her corruption, and John Podesta, her chief of staff, was in it up to his eyeballs, but like his candidate, stealing and secretly using the questions didn’t bother him (or his boss for that matter), he didn’t resign.
I lived for years in the Solomon Islands. When I got there, there was little corruption. Then one year a man named Solomon Mamaloni was elected Prime Minister. Almost overnight, government officials had their hands out for bribes. It has been a cesspit of corruption ever since.
I realized then and there that a country could withstand idiots in charge, and people with an agenda, and just plain fools … but it could not survive having a corrupt person at the top, because fish rot from the head down.
So Jenny, your best British advice is that I should have voted for a corrupt politician from the elite class that has demonstrably failed us, someone who sold access to the State Department for millions of dollars, rather than vote for an admittedly unpleasant jerk who has a habit of actually accomplishing what he sets out to do?
I fear your argument is totally unpersuasive. As for your daughter, let me quote to you what Scott Adams said:
You might consider reading Adams’ interesting explanation of why he was one of the few people who predicted Trump’s victory … me, I thought his odds were 50/50, but Scott predicted his win.
w.
++ in UK droves.
It never ceases to amaze me how offended your average liberal gets when someone with more money than they do manages to use a perfectly legal deduction in order not pay everything to the government.
For the most part, those who whine the loudest aren’t paying anything in income taxes in the first place.
Willis,
Thanks for replying to my comments though I’m not sure you understand my point. People here, rightly or wrongly, feel Trump is totally unacceptable as a leader because of his views. Period (as you say?). He would never, ever be elected here. I was also trying to say that the fact that he can make racist/sexist comments because he’s the boss and yet would be fired for them if he was a mere worker seems pretty unacceptable.
I did do a bit of research into Hillary on fact checking sites and found that a lot of the allegations against her haven’t been proved although she seems to have made some poor choices at times, but then as you say I don’t live in America so haven’t experienced it. For people I speak to (and the press here) allegations against against Trump appear to be morally more repugnant than those I’ve heard against Clinton. But what I hear a lot is this is all about money, not morality, which I find difficult.
Re politics and climate change – in the UK, at least, anti AGW sentiment is linked so much to right wing views, the oil business etc and I think the only way anyone will take alternative views seriously is if this association is diluted. I suspect the election of Trump will just make the rest of the world more determined on the global warming front.
It is very trendy (which doesn’t make it wise) at the moment to be fed up with experts or establishment figures, and I guess the result of having someone who really has no experience in such an important job could go either way. But re your last point I heard Trump’s ex chief architect on the radio this morning and she wasn’t at all confident that he would do a good job of being president and that he might find himself a bit surprised he actually had to turn up to meetings if he didn’t feel like it or accept advice he didn’t like…. I suspect being the boss of big business might be just slightly different to being President.
But who knows, only time will tell! Let’s hope for a fairer, kinder, more peaceful world.
Jenny Life November 10, 2016 at 1:26 pm Edit
Jenny, I’m sorry, but truly, I see upset liberals all across the US saying the same thing, expressing shock and outrage that they lost to a loudmouthed boor … why would I care about people doing the same in Britain?
It appears you’ve been fooled by the media. Trump said “Mexico isn’t sending us their best citizens, there are rapists and murderers among them”. The media screams “TRUMP HATES MEXICANS”. Trump said our vetting procedures are an international joke and we should stop bringing in people from countries with big terrorist populations until we FIX OUR VETTING SYSTEM … and the media says “TRUMP HATES MOSLEMS”.
As to sexist, you clearly haven’t heard the rap stars that are the favorites of Michelle Obama and the girls, singing about women being ‘ho’s and bitches and glorifying violence against women … or perhaps like some liberals you think it’s OK for the rap artists to denigrate women and glorify degrading women because “culture” …
I’d post some of the lyrics of the folks the Obamas repeatedly invited to to dinner over eight years, but it’s a family blog and I don’t want your daughters to get into hysterics, but look them up. They are disgusting.
So I call you out as a liberal hypocrite, “horrified” that a rich man spoke badly about women but ignoring the Obamas’ support of people spreading misogyny and glorifying, not crotch grabbing, but VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN worldwide.
Spare me your faux outrage regarding bad words about women. I’ll believe it when you say worse about the Obamas’ support of rap artists glorifying actual violence against women. She takes her daughters to those rap concerts … where is your outrage about what she is teaching them?
I’m sorry, but selling access to the US State Department (all verified by the emails and currently under FBI investigation) is more dangerous, more illegal, and more morally repugnant than anything Trump could say about women.
Plus, for all of your moral outrage, you are defending the wife of the Rapist-In-Chief. Trump talked about women. Clinton raped them, but then there’s one law for the poor and one for the rich. In this election Hillary tried to get away with saying that all rape victims should be believed, trying to buy votes from women by playing the sympathy card … but she shut her face quick when reminded of how she had savaged Bill’s victims … I’m sorry, Jenny, but you do NOT have the moral high ground you think you have. You are defending a corrupt sleazebag whose main claim to fame was first that she was the governor’s wife who put up with his mistresses and attacked his rape victims, and then the president’s wife who put up with him lying through his teeth about Monica, and shamed Monica for it. A wonderful role model for your daughter …
And you have the nerve to think Trump is “morally repugnant”? Either you didn’t know these facts about Hillary and about the Obamas, or you desperately need to have your moral compass recalibrated …
Dear lady, we’re Americans. We don’t trim our sails based on what the “rest of the world” might do, never have.
I’ll take a businessman over the corrupt wife of a politico any time, even if Trump is a crude boor.
I look forward with great interest to finding out just how business experience does translate to running an administration … my guess is that business experience will be far more valuable than experience being a “community organizer” or being a First Lady, but we’ll find out.
In that wish, dear lady I can only join you heartily.
Finally, let me say that as with many elections in the past, many people did not vote for Donald Trump. They voted for change. It was the drive for change that empowered the campaign of Bernie Saunders just as with Donald Trump. I don’t think you comprehend how much people feel like our government has failed us. When illegal immigrants are drawing government benefits and veterans are sleeping on the streets, you have to know that something is fundamentally wrong. When our current administration DOUBLES THE NATIONAL DEBT in a mere eight years and pisses the money down various meaningless “green” ratholes, you have to know that the system is not working.
And when the working class has seen no real increase in their wages for thirty years, it’s time for a change. Doesn’t really matter what the change is, but the current Washington system is busted.
We simply could not afford more of the same, so we voted for change. We had a choice between a corrupt representative of a long-time dynasty of political elites who have grown rich beyond belief in public office, a representative that promised to carry the “Obama Legacy” forwards (presumably to another doubling of debt) on the one hand, and an arrogant, non-politically-correct businessman who promised change … and you truly think we should have voted for the corrupt choice of the Washington political elite that have done so much damage already?
Pass … it appears you don’t understand why we don’t pay a lot of attention to hand-wringing folks on either side of the Atlantic. YOU DO NOT HAVE THE MORAL HIGH GROUND THAT YOU SEEM TO THINK YOU OCCUPY!
w.
WOW! I am impressed! Excellent rebuttal.
Hi Jenny,
This comment of yours needs some embellishment: ” My daughter of 14 and all her friends are already worried sick about having a politically inexperienced and potentially unbalanced man with a finger on the nuclear button. ”
Hmmm; your description is 100% accurate — — — — —
…….. for one B. Hussien Obama!
He was a two-year state Senator from Illinois, who voted “present” about two-thirds of the time that he was in office. Prior to that, he was a ‘community organizer’ (nice work, if you can get it … ).
And as far as mentally deranged or unbalanced, keep in mind that for many of us libertarian-types (small government, pro-business, low taxes, low regulation; what we call over here ‘conservative’), any kind of ‘socialism’, ‘progressivism’, or what-ever-it-is-that-you-call-it, we consider it to be a mental illness.
It never has worked, and it never will work; Einstein defined insanity as, ‘trying the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.’
Working-class people like me have gone backwards economically from the last eight years of a, ” … politically-inexperienced and potentially unbalanced man … ” running the show, and essentially killing us.
And you’re surprised we voted for something different?
ARE YOU EVEN SANE?????
Regards,
Vlad
Yay. +1.
Jenny,
America already hit rock bottom with draft-dodging, rapist, organized criminal Bill Clinton and his psychotic, pathological liar partner in crime Hillary, who sold US foreign policy to the highest bidder. So, lewd, crude and rude though he is, Trump is actually an improvement.
Trump groped women. Bill Clinton raped them.
Yup. With force and violence, preferably by biting their lips.
The Slickster has the same psychological profile as Ted Bundy.
Trump is *alleged* to have groped women.
He is guilty of talking about it, but no evidence has been brought forward showing he put his hands on any woman.
Two of the women supposedly groped by Trump came forward and said the stories written about them were all lies and they loved and respected Trump. And one other woman has withdrawn her complaint about Trump.
A person is innocent until proven guilty.
When it comes to draft dodging in the late 60’s/early 70’s it was rather common-place, as well as Clinton and Trump the following did it:
Guiliani, Cheney, Gingrich, Romney, G W Bush, Limbaugh, Dan Quayle, Ted Nugent, Mitch McConnell……
Jenny,
I live in the UK and come from a working class background, and consider myself to be left wing. Having retired early I have been following, both US politics and climate fearmongering for the last ten years, I have become totally disenchanted with the left wing propaganda coming from the US democratic politicians and academic elites.
In my opinion Donald Trump has the potential to become a great force for positive change and a great President, this opinion is shared by both myself, wife and sister, although many other people share your biased media fuelled opinion, they and you are in propaganda fuelled fog.
MaD Mike
Try getting more friends. And then get some facts. Trump has been audited every year. There is no tax evasion. There is tax avoidance, which is legal both in the US and UK. Trump never groped anyone (the accusers were shown to be liars). He is a talker, but not a walker (you confuse him with Bill Clinton who you apparently love). Trump got an award from the NAACP for his work against racism. But then you would not know that as your circle of friends is as limited as is your knowledge.
My, my, You must have been absolutely apoplectic when YOUR country decided to leave the Borg collective we call the European Union.
The District of Columbia isn’t so much an outlier, as a part of the pattern. In the republican vote in Australia that was held at the start of the Howard government, Canberra (the national capital) was the only state or territory that was deluded enough to actually vote in favour of the deeply flawed republic proposal.
The capitals of every country tend to be very much in favour of leftist proposals.
“The capitals of every country tend to be very much in favour of leftist proposals.”
I think at least part of the reason more Leftists are found in large population centers is because large population centers make a person more dependent on government for supplying their wellbeing.
I live in a rural area. If a big snowstorm comes by and knocks out all the electricity, I can walk outside and pick up some firewood and put it in my woodstove, and I’m good to go.
A person in a big city under similar circumstances, would not have my options, and would be looking to government to solve their problem.
The higher the population density, the more government dependency one would tend to have, and government intervention would be seen as a good thing, a necessary thing.
The biggest difference is that DC is 100% urban. Beyond that as you point out, it’s also a capital city.
There are studies that show when you put animals into crowded noisy environments, they eventually start showing signs of mental disease.
LA Times tracking poll 2016 correctly predicted this result way way back and everyday up to election day. They also predicted the 2012 result correctly
http://cesrusc.org/election/
Interesting use of ‘correctly’, that poll predicted a Trump lead of 3% compared with a slight lead by Clinton of ~0.2%.
Take away the rampant Democrat fraud, and Trump won the popular vote, too.
There is no evidence of ‘rampant Democrat fraud’ as you put it. There is evidence of Republican gerrymandering however (check out the N Carolina district 12 and district 1: http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/north-carolina
Not to mention the voter suppression by republicans that has been going on, particularly in N Carolina, just a few days ago the state republicans were boasting about how successful it had been!
There is plenty of evidence of Democrat fraud. It has been linked to numerous times. You may not like it, but that does not make it go away. Gerrymandering is not vote fraud. And it does not change the vote total.
philjourdan November 11, 2016 at 11:53 am
There is plenty of evidence of Democrat fraud. It has been linked to numerous times.
Not once in this thread!
You may not like it, but that does not make it go away. Gerrymandering is not vote fraud. And it does not change the vote total.
It certainly does change the vote total in House election which is why the house composition is so far out of line with the popular vote. Voter suppression has a large effect on the total vote too.
Just for you because I like your name:
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/09/22/cbs4-investigation-finds-dead-voters-casting-ballots-in-colorado/
http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/accused-washington-mall-shooter-voted-in-3-federal-elections-as-non-citizen/
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/10/22/calibration-error-changes-gop-votes-to-dem-in-illinois-county.html
etc., etc., etc.,
And we are talking the PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. The EC votes are by state. Not by congressional district (except in 2 states and one went totally for a single candidate). So GerryMandering is NOT voter fraud. It is not even fraud. The house districts have the same population, so do not violate any laws. They stink to high heaven, and I hate them. But they are NOT fraud.
On Tuesday, U.S. election day ,there were no sunspots.
Correlation or causation ??
Face it folks, over the last few decades, ANY party, Republican or Democrat that went
into their Convention with contesting candidates LOST in the general election.
By the time the Republican convention in Cleveland began all those rivals had either
folded their tents and left, or stuck around to end up endorsing Trump.
In Philadelphia, the Sanders supporters took the campaign to a vote, which Clinton won.
The “not Trump” faction of the Republican party didn’t provide a lightning rod to channel
the “not” frustration… so the party supported Trump without too much internal (public)
bickering.
The Sanders crowd never fully got behind Clinton’s candidacy.
With half-hearted party leadership, the VOTERS on both sides held our collective
noses and voted for our self-interests.
The massive $$ give-away to foreign governments and international institutions, including
the Paris Accords scheme, set up by the Obama administration are NOT in the interest
of the average American.
When Obama was elected, in his early days I recall him doing something I actually agreed with, getting me to think “hey maybe he’s not that bad”. It was all downhill after that. In restrospect, it was a political ploy to soften conservatives like me up. I don’t believe the gushy “we’re all behind Trump now” Clinton and Obama speeches, and I don’t believe Trumps kind words for Hillary, it’s all political maneuvering to soften the other side up. After the Obama/Clinton speeches were over they probably went behind closed doors to plot how to hold on to as much power as they could, or ways to delay and obstruct Trump and the Republicans, probably starting with stealing the Ts from every computer keyboard. The liberal struggle to obtain power is a 24/7 job, it never gives up.
+1 on those speeches. Phrases like “congratulate on hard-fought campaign,” “debt of gratitude for public service,” and “come together as a nation” are absolutely stock. These speeches are a time-honored hatchet burying ritual, signaling that the time of outrageous lies insults is over, and civilized intercourse can resume again.
… added note – I had to laugh at Hillary’s affirmation that “this movement was never about a single person.” Right. The primaries were rigged so that no more popular candidate would enter, and when Bernie the patsy unexpectedly defied gravity, there was a by now well-documented DNC intrigue to get him out of the way. The DNC and all the establishment artillery was lined up behind Hillary, but “it was never about her.”
Well, maybe she is right after all – the (bowel) “movement” was not about the witch, but about the wizard behind the curtain.
There is gridlock because we cannot agree. This is not intolerable, it is by design and it is good, it is one of the things that makes the country great. While other countries bankrupt themselves on wind farms (Germany, uk, Spain, Ontario), USA gridlock prevented that disaster from happening in the USA.
The Democrats are the party of the Poor – welfare. And the Rich. The middle class is for the republicans. The most telling indication of the direction of the election was the stock market. It adjusted, but clearly, it rose and fell with the expectations of a Hillary victory. Democrats are the party of Wall Street. Republicans are the party of Main street. And yes, that is a huge change from when I was a lot younger.