The Cosmic Problem With Rays

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

Normal carbon has six neutrons and six protons, for an atomic weight of twelve. However, there is a slightly different form of carbon which has two extra neutrons. That form of carbon, called carbon-14 or “14C”, has an atomic weight of fourteen. It is known to be formed by the interaction of high-energy cosmic rays with the atmosphere.

Therefore, the production of the carbon isotope 14C goes up and down with the number of cosmic rays.

Thus, other things being equal, the production of 14C could be a proxy for how many cosmic rays are passing through the atmosphere. And the number of cosmic rays striking the earth is regulated by a combination of the magnetic fields of the earth and the sun. When the combined magnetic field is strong, it deflects the cosmic rays away from the earth. When it is weak, more cosmic rays strike the earth.

So let me start, as I prefer to do, with the largest, longest view of the underlying raw data. In this case it is something called the “INTCAL13 Calibration Curve”. It is a record of historical variations in the levels of the carbon isotope 14C.

intcal13-calibration-regularFigure 1. INTCAL13 calibration curve. The interval between values is five years in the recent part of the record (since 11950 BC). In the middle part of the record, from 23050 BC to 11950 BC values are ten years apart. And in the earliest part, from the beginning to 23050 BC, values are 20 years apart.

The large variations in the curve are said to be from slow changes in the earth’s own geomagnetic field over the millennia. However, our knowledge of geomagnetism millennia ago is not of the finest … given that, it does seem like a possible explanation.

Keep that INTCAL13 calibration curve in mind for a moment, and let me move on to discuss a guest post over at Judith Curry’s often-excellent website, by someone named “Javier”. The post is all about solar cycles. And there’s a new post on WUWT discussing Javier’s solar cycles. These are solar cycles that are two thousand four hundred years long, to be exact. How do they know that? Well, here’s Javier’s money graph.

javier-2400-year-oscillationFigure 2. Javier’s graph showing a claimed 2400-year cycle in the 14C record, which in turn is claimed to be a solar cycle.

So the obvious question is … how on earth did they get from the curve shown in Figure 1 to the curve shown in Figure 2? Javier says it is done by “removal of the long-term trend” … but how was that done? I went to the cited work of Clilverd et al.  to find out the answer.

First, because the sun and the cosmic rays are negatively correlated, they flip the 14C record over as shown in Figure 3. In this orientation, warmer is at the top of the chart and cooler is at the bottom. That’s just a graphic convenience, no problem.

intcal13-calibration-invertedFigure 3. Inverted INTCAL13 calibration curve.

Then they throw away more than three-quarters of the data, leaving only the chunk since 9600 BC as shown in Figure 4.

intcal13-calibration-inverted-recent

Figure 4. Inverted INTCAL13 calibration curve since 9,600 BC.

Following that, they fit a linear trend to the data, and detrend it. Then they subtract out a purported 7,000 year signal of unknown origin. Figure 5 below from Clilverd et al. illustrates the procedure. Note that the upper panel of Figure 5 matches my Figure 4.

cliverd-figure-1-delta-14-cFigure 5. Figure 1 of Clilverd et al.

I note in passing that although Javier asserts a “correct” cycle length of 2400 years, Clilverd shows a 2300 year cycle. I guess that’s why Javier’s version is “adapted from” … but I digress.

Let me recapitulate the bidding. To get from the inverted 14C record shown in Figure 3 to the record used by Clilverd et al, they have

  • thrown away three-quarters of the data, 
  • removed a purported linear trend of unknown origin from the remainder, 
  • subtracted a 7000-year cycle of unknown origin , and 
  • ASSERTED that the remainder represents solar variations with an underlying 2,300 year period …

I suspect that y’all can see the problems in each and every step of that process. First and foremost, why throw away three-quarters of the data? That alone disqualifies the study in my mind. But let us continue listing the difficulties:

Where did the claimed linear trend come from? What justifies removing it? Why use an exactly 7,000 year cycle, and where did it come from? How does one diagnose a 7.000 year cycle when you only have about 12,000 years of data, not even two full cycles? How do they know that the 7,000 year cycle is NOT solar-related and the 2,400 year cycle IS solar-related?

And finally, what evidence do we have that the remainder has anything to do with the sun?

But wait, as they say on the TV ads, there’s more. Let’s set the work of Javier aside entirely and return to the question of cosmic rays, which Javier does not discuss. Remember that the relationship between cosmic rays and the climate is supposed to work as follows:

In times when there are more cosmic rays, the rays cause more cloud nuclei to form. As a result more clouds form (and in addition, more 14C forms) and the world is colder. But in times when there are less cosmic rays (indicated by less 14C), there are less clouds, and thus the world ends up warmer.

And according to that theory, people claim that the final dip in the 2400-year cycle seen in Figures 2 & 5 is the cause of the cold times around the Little Ice Age. Back then it was a couple of degrees cooler than at present. If that theory is correct, this means that a change in ∆14C of about 10 per mil reflects a change in cosmic rays that is enough to cause a global temperature change of 2°C.

Now that all sounds good until you take another look at Figure 3. Let me replot it, and this time I’ll include the 10 per mil change in ∆14C, and hence in cosmic rays, rumored to be responsible for the Little Ice Age.

intcal13-inverted-plus-liaFigure 6. Inverted INTCAL13 calibration curve. Gray lines show the variation in ∆14C of 10 per mil claimed to be from cosmic rays and said to be responsible for the 2° cooling during Little Ice Age. The large swings are said to be due to changes in the strength of the geomagnetic field.

I reckon you folks can see the difficulty … according to this, about twenty thousand years ago it should have been about 100°C colder than today …

Now, about the only way out of this dilemma is to say that the peak-to-peak swing of about 500 per mil in ∆14C is from some kind of non-cosmic ray variations. You know, like the claimed 7,000 year cycle that was removed in Figure 5 that was ascribed to … hang on, I want to get this right … OK, they said it was from “changes within the carbon system itself”.

(Let me say that I like that particular bit of bafflegab a lot, “changes within the system itself”. Seems like that would cover a host of unpleasant variations in any dataset you might find … but again I digress.)

So to recap: IF the claims are true that the changes in ∆14C shown in Figure 6 reflect changes in cosmic rays and that the changes in cosmic rays result in the claimed changes in temperature, then twenty thousand years ago the earth should have been 100°C cooler. Even if I’m wrong by 100%, it is still saying that it was 50°C cooler back then … didn’t happen.

Since that is not possible, then it seems we must assume that “changes within the system itself” are causing the huge swings in ∆14C.

But if that is the case, then it is more than possible that these unknown changes within the system are also responsible for the smaller swings currently ascribed to variations in cosmic rays.

Anyhow, that’s my cosmic problem with rays. Here I have no problems. It’s two AM, I’m a night owl. There’s been rain for three days, wonderful rain. And there’s still rain in the area, a small cell passing north of us. But the wind has shifted. It was blowing strongly from the south or southwest for the last three days. Now the wind is just a mild breeze, and from the west. There are big gaps in the clouds, and the moon, aah, for the first time in a while the moon is finally showing its face. I can hear the distant hungry grumbling of the surf as it nibbles on the ribs of the coastline some six miles (ten km) away … a good night to be alive here in the redwood forest, with the giant trees standing stark and clear in the pale wash of moonlight, and silvered cumulus drifting across the sky.

Best to everyone,

w.

My Usual Request: Misunderstandings are the bane of the web. Please further understanding by quoting the exact words that you disagree with. That is the only way that we can all be clear about the exact nature of what you object to.

My Other Request: Bald statements that someone doesn’t know what they are doing, even if true, are of little use to anyone. If you think someone is using a wrong method or a wrong dataset, please further everyone’s understanding by demonstrating the right method or by linking to the right dataset.

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DHR
October 17, 2016 5:47 am

Why does not the INTCAL13 Calibration Curve show a spike circa1960? If Greg Goodman’s chart (above) is correct, there was a huge spike of about 1500 per mil sometime around then. Perhaps the 20-year sampling period just happened to miss it or perhaps it was “corrected” away.

Reply to  DHR
October 17, 2016 5:59 am

Because the INTCAL13 data stops in 1950 (0BP).

Dr Deanster
October 17, 2016 6:19 am

Seems logical to me. C14 will change due to cosmic rays, but it is also dependent on available carbon. That first graph looks amazingly similar to the curve coming out of the last ice age, thus outgassing of CO2 increases available carbon. …. natural increase in C14 that is independent of cosmic rays.

October 17, 2016 6:31 am

First and foremost, why throw away three-quarters of the data? That alone disqualifies the study in my mind

Willis, I think your analysis is a good example of critical thinking, but this one objection to their methodology is probably a bit hasty.
Look again at the INTCAL13 graph. After 9600 BC, the data is spiky on a short timescale that varies from a bit less than a century at the beginning to about a decade in the most recent past (eyeball estimates). Obviously, there’s a wealth of data there and it comes, mainly from overlapping tree-ring data [probably useless as palaeotemperature proxies, tree rings are an invaluable way of reconstructing the past]. But before 9600 BC, the curve becomes very smooth, and this reflects a much sparser data set.
Think about it. How does one get a “true” age (it’s called a calendar age) for the carbon in fossil remains or limestone? You can google it and read it yourself. Basically, it’s plant debris in varved sediments from a single lake in Japan, U-Th dating of annually-banded speleothems (stalactites and stalagmites to you n me) and fossils from well bedded marine sediments. These “older” dates require adjustment where their ∆14C dates overlap with the tree-ring set, and where they overlap with each other, and this undoubtedly reduces the accuracy of the pre-9600 BC dates considerably.
So the answer is: they threw out three-quarters of the data because it didn’t have the accuracy or the temporal resolution to support the kind of analysis that they did. An extremely reasonable step IMO.
The rest of it is, as you eloquently point out, very shaky. They have basically found three components in the 11,600-year record: a 2300- or 2400-year cycle, a possible 7,000-year cycle, and a “trend”, which if you look at the long-term graph, is almost certainly part of a cycle of 50,000 years or more. So they found that the 2300-year cycle correlates with a solar cycle. Quel surprise! They found what they were looking for!
It would have been more interesting if they had searched for natural phenomena that correlate with their other cycles and/or trend. I suspect that if they did, and if they found something, they are going to publish something on those lines in another paper. After all, why put all the work that you did in a week or so in a single paper when you can get 4 or 5 papers out of it? Publish or perish and that cobblers. More likely, they looked and couldn’t find any obvious correlations.

seaice1
Reply to  Smart Rock
October 17, 2016 8:22 am

They did not find the 7000 year cycle, they used the cycle that was identified by Beer 2000.

steveta_uk
Reply to  seaice1
October 17, 2016 9:52 am

According to Wikipedia, another beer cycle of 7000 years (so far) has been identified by chemical tests of ancient pottery jars, revealing that beer was produced as far back as about 7,000 years ago in what is today Iran.

seaice1
Reply to  seaice1
October 17, 2016 3:19 pm

Three cheers to the ancient Iranians!

Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
October 17, 2016 2:18 pm

First and foremost, why throw away three-quarters of the data? That alone disqualifies the study in my mind

You are clearly not aware of the issues in this field.comment image
http://www.clim-past.net/9/1879/2013/cp-9-1879-2013.pdf
Roth, R., & Joos, F. (2013). A reconstruction of radiocarbon production and total solar irradiance from the Holocene 14 C and CO 2 records: implications of data and model uncertainties. Climate of the Past, 9(4), 1879-1909.

MarkW
October 17, 2016 6:31 am

“according to this, about twenty thousand years ago it should have been about 100°C colder than today”
You assume a linear relationship.

MarkW
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
October 17, 2016 2:07 pm

You are the one who claimed that since the smaller change resulted in a 2C temp change, then the larger one should have resulted in a 100C change.
That’s linear thinking, IE, each change in C14 should result in the same amount of temperature change.

prjindigo
October 17, 2016 6:43 am

changes in C14?

prjindigo
Reply to  prjindigo
October 17, 2016 6:46 am

Sorry, very distracted. Can changes in C14 against the background pattern be used to indicate large combustion events in the atmosphere – would several huge forest fires plume enough up to create spikes in total C14 or would they be drowned out by volcano events… and my big question… would the C14 be retained in *petrified wood*?

prjindigo
Reply to  prjindigo
October 17, 2016 6:50 am

(limited it seems to 250,000 years due to 5730 year halflife)

ShrNfr
Reply to  prjindigo
October 17, 2016 7:50 am

No. combustion events would release both C13 and C14 into the atmosphere. Unless you had some sort of combustion event that only burned 1,000+ year old trees, they would not effect the atmospheric concentration in the least in my opinion.
Petrified wood is wood that has had silica (in the general case) replace the wood along the structure of the wood. Carbon is not retained.

Reply to  prjindigo
October 17, 2016 2:00 pm

@ShrNfr
Burning peat or burning coal seams would allow dilution in the C14/C12 ratio, but I cannot envision a scenario where enough could burn that wouldn’t already be well known to geologists.
A major Methane Hydrate release would dilute C14 in a larger pool of C12 as well. But it too would leave behind evidence that I don’t think we see. It could be mixed up with submarine canyons and basin floor deposits, but it would be awful recent deposits. That much methane would cause a temperature spike, too. So unless it was the event that ended the last ice age, where would we see it?

ren
October 17, 2016 7:12 am

What is 14C?
Carbon is one of the elements which all living things are composed of. The most common form of carbon is carbon-12 which has 6 protons and 6 neutrons. 99 percent of all the carbon in the world is carbon-12 but some carbon atoms (isotopes) have additional 1 or 2 neutrons. These isotopes are called carbon-13 and carbon-14 respectively.
Where does 14C come from?
Carbon-14, the isotc14ope with 8 neutrons, is created in the atmosphere. Cosmic rays enter the atmosphere from space and create energetic neutrons. When one of these energetic neutrons collides with a nitrogen atom (7 protons and 7 neutrons), it forces out one of the protons, creating a Carbon-14 atom (6 protons and 8 neutrons).
http://web.whoi.edu/coastal-group/about/how-we-work/lab-methods/c14-dating-techniques/
http://neutronm.bartol.udel.edu/realtime/southpole.html

October 17, 2016 7:33 am

It’s not really clear to me what the vertical axis means. The “delta” must mean some kind of change, since the graphs go below zero at the end. Does the “(per mil)” mean atoms per million, atoms per millennium or something else?

Reply to  Canman
October 17, 2016 2:25 pm

“The conversion of the radiocarbon proxy record (McCormac et al., 2004; Reimer et al., 2009) to TSI involves several steps. First a carbon cycle model is applied to infer radiocarbon production by deconvolving the atmospheric radiocarbon budget. Radiocarbon production is equal to the prescribed changes in the atmospheric radiocarbon inventory and decay in the atmosphere plus the modelled net air-to-sea and net air-to-land 14C fluxes. The radiocarbon signature of a flux or a reservoir is commonly reported in the ∆14C notation, i.e. as the fractionation-corrected per mil deviation of 14 R = 14 C/12 C from a given standard defined as 14 Rstd = 1.176 × 10(−12) (Stuiver and Polach, 1977).”
http://www.clim-past.net/9/1879/2013/cp-9-1879-2013.pdf

Don Easterbrook
October 17, 2016 7:45 am

Most of the data in these curves older than about 15,000 years is highly speculative and inaccurate. Consider how delta-14C is determined. You need to know the measured 14C age of wood and the calendar age–the difference allows you to calculate delta-14C. You can measure the 14C age in a mass spec, and the calendar age can be measured by counting tree rings. That works well for living trees (up to a couple thousand years) and that can be extended to somewhere around 8,000 years or so by matching tree rings in dead trees. Beyond that, you have to use some other way to determine calendar ages, generally various cyclic deposits but they are quite inaccurate.
A second problem is that the older a sample, the less accurate the dating becomes. For example, the usual +/- for a 10k sample is about +/- 50 years, but for a 30-40k it is generally a few thousand years. Thus, although the accuracy of older samples is OK for most purposes, it is not accurate enough for detailed delta-14C calculations.
An even greater problem is determining the calendar age of a 14C-dated sample. How can you do that with sufficient accuracy to calculate delta-14C? The answer is that you really can’t.
The bottom line here is that, aside from Willis’s reservations, I wouldn’t bet a nickel on the accuracy of any of the delta-14C data beyond about 20k in the paper.

Reply to  Don Easterbrook
October 17, 2016 2:30 pm

Clilverd et al., 2003 doesn’t go beyond 11,700 yr BP.

ren
October 17, 2016 7:48 am

The wavelet spectrum of solar activity (Fig. 4B) shows that the amplitudes of these periodicities have varied in time, that is, the de Vries cycle amplitude has varied with a period of about 2,200 y, called the Hallstatt cycle (29). The largest amplitudes of the de Vries cycle are found during Hallstatt cycle minima centered at approximately 8,200; 5,500; 2,500; and 500 BP. Comparison of the time series of solar activity and its wavelet spectrum (Fig. 4 A and B) show that grand solar minima occur preferentially at minima of the de Vries cycles (note that solar activity is plotted on a reversed scale in Fig. 4A). Comparison of the time series of solar activity and climate (Fig. 4A) and their wavelet coherence (Fig. 4C) shows that in general during the Hallstatt cycle minima of solar activity (again characterized by large de Vries cycle amplitudes and a frequent occurrence of grand solar minima) the AM is weaker. However, there is some discrepancy during the Hallstatt cycle minima between 5,000 and 6,000 BP and in the past 1,500 y. During these periods the wavelet coherence for the periodicity of the de Vries cycle (around 210 y) is low, although several grand solar minima are visible. A similar pattern is visible at the Eddy periodicity (around 1,000 y), which has high power in the wavelet coherence, except in the period 3,000 to 5,000 BP. Such temporal differences are expected because the Sun is not the only driver of the climate system. Other forcing factors such as volcanic aerosols and greenhouse gases have changed in time, obscuring temporally the solar fingerprint.
Fig. 4.
Comparison of solar activity (total solar irradiance [TSI]) in blue and δ18O from Dongge cave, China, in green representing changes of the Asian climate. possibly the Asian monsoon (AM) (low δ18O corresponds to strong AM monsoon and vice versa). TSI has been reconstructed from the cosmic ray intensity reconstruction (SI Appendix, Section S10). Both records have been normalized (subtraction of mean value and division by the standard deviation), linearly detrended and high-pass filtered with 2,000 y. (A) Time series of solar activity (TSI) and δ18O. Solar activity (TSI) is plotted on a reversed scale. (B) Wavelet of solar activity (TSI). De Vries cycle at approximately 210 y and Eddy cycle at approximately 1,000 y are marked with horizontal, gray dashed lines. Black boundaries mark 95% significance level. (C) Wavelet coherence of solar activity (TSI) and δ18O. De Vries cycle at approximately 210 y and Eddy cycle at approximately 1,000 y are marked with horizontal, gray dashed lines. Arrows pointing to the right indicate that the records are in phase. Black boundaries mark the 95% significance level.
http://m.pnas.org/content/109/16/5967/F4.large.jpg
http://m.pnas.org/content/109/16/5967.full

ren
October 17, 2016 8:05 am

TSI weighted reconstruction since approximately 9500 BC. In order to provide a better visualization, the evolution since 1000 BC is displayed in panel b). The filled gray band represents region limited by the KN08-VADM and KC05-VDM reconstructions. For reference, the red lines represent the 10-year averaged reconstruction by Krivova et al. (2010a).
http://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/full_html/2011/07/aa15843-10/aa15843-10-fig11.jpg
http://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/full_html/2011/07/aa15843-10/aa15843-10.html

Greg Goodman
October 17, 2016 8:15 am

On the half-life question:
http://www.radiocarbon.com/tree-ring-calibration.htm

It is also worth noting that the half-life used in carbon dating calculations is 5568 years, the value worked out by chemist Willard Libby, and not the more accurate value of 5730 years, which is known as the Cambridge half-life. Although it is less accurate, the Libby half-life was retained to avoid inconsistencies or errors when comparing carbon-14 test results that were produced before and after the Cambridge half-life was derived.

http://www.radiocarbon.org/IntCal13%20files/intcal13.14c

##Atmospheric data from Reimer et al (2013);
# Reimer et al. 2013
# Reimer PJ, Bard E, Bayliss A, Beck JW, Blackwell PG, Bronk Ramsey C, Buck CE
# Cheng H, Edwards RL, Friedrich M, Grootes PM, Guilderson TP, Haflidason H,
# Hajdas I, Hatt� C, Heaton TJ, Hogg AG, Hughen KA, Kaiser KF, Kromer B,
# Manning SW, Niu M, Reimer RW, Richards DA, Scott EM, Southon JR, Turney CSM,
# van der Plicht J.
# IntCal13 and MARINE13 radiocarbon age calibration curves 0-50000 years calBP
# Radiocarbon 55(4). DOI: 10.2458/azu_js_rc.55.16947
# CAL BP, 14C age,Error,Delta 14C,Sigma
#       , YR BP  ,YR BP,per mil  ,per mil
50000,46401,274,312.8,44.8
49980,46381,273,312.9,44.6
49960,46362,271,312.8,44.3
49940,46343,270,312.7,44.1
49920,46324,269,312.6,44.0
49900,46305,268,312.6,43.8

0-50000 years calBP
http://www.radiocarbon.com/tree-ring-calibration.htm
Carbon dating results must be clear, hence they should not be reported simply as BC, AD, or BP.

The data Willis plotted was col 1 and 4 which he appears to have adjusted from year “Before Present” ( ie 1950 ) in the file to AD dates. So the X axis should have been labelled ” calAD” not Year ( AD/BC ).
Otherwise this is showing true estimation in calender years for each d14C value. My earlier impression this was affected by the Libby half-life was incorrect, they are already adjusted. Col 2 is the uncorrected radiocarbon years.

Greg Goodman
Reply to  Greg Goodman
October 17, 2016 8:17 am

oops , messed the quotes:
http://www.radiocarbon.com/tree-ring-calibration.htm

Carbon dating results must be clear, hence they should not be reported simply as BC, AD, or BP.

The data Willis plotted was col 1 and 4 which he appears to have adjusted from year “Before Present” ( ie 1950 ) in the file to AD dates. So the X axis should have been labelled ” calAD” not Year ( AD/BC ).
Otherwise this is showing true estimation in calender years for each d14C value. My earlier impression this was affected by the Libby half-life was incorrect, they are already adjusted. Col 2 is the uncorrected radiocarbon years.

October 17, 2016 8:17 am

My university professors that taught me signal processing techniques would weep if they saw the original article(s) as well as Willis’ critique. Not sure what this says about modern PhD programs…
I plan on running a proper frequency analysis later (probably too late as this post will pass in to history), but for now here’s some brief critique of critique:
(changed bullets to numbers)

1. thrown away three-quarters of the data,
2. removed a purported linear trend of unknown origin from the remainder,
3. subtracted a 7000-year cycle of unknown origin , and
4. ASSERTED that the remainder represents solar variations with an underlying 2,300 year period …

For (1) there’s a good explanation above about the noise issues with dates older than 11k. I won’t repeat that.
(2) standard frequency analysis assumes a periodic signal so endpoints are thrown away using e.g a Hamming window. this has a similar (but not the same) effect as de-trending. This detrending has zero effect on data whose periods of 2,300 years when the entire data sample is ~> 4x as long (which it is). So the critique is not valid.
(3) subtraction in the time domain is equivalent to subtraction in the frequency domain. So again no effect on any 2,300 year periods present in the signal when you subtract a 7000 year signal. BTW a Hamming window would have removed signals with periods > 5,000 years anyways.
(4) Willis is correct in questioning whether the remaining signal has 2,300 periods, but for the wrong reasons. To my eyes, the signal-noise ratio looks so bad it could just be noise. A proper frequency analysis would tell us that. Overlaying signals in the time domain is not proper signal analysis.
It would appear to me that in the last 25 years anyone with decent signal processing knowledge has left the University to pursue more lucrative careers in industry. This is Mann-level silliness.
Peter

Greg Goodman
Reply to  Peter Sable
October 17, 2016 9:13 am

In quick look, I find a peak at 2461 and another at 87y .
Even using diff to detrend which attenuates long periods hard. The 2461 peak is clearly above noise.

Greg Goodman
Reply to  Greg Goodman
October 17, 2016 9:54 am

actually this data looks like it’s been through a low-pass filter, there’s very little below 40y.
Like I said at the top, I don’t believe this data in this state is a measure of solar activity.
The 14C trapped in any biological sample is the integral of all preceding 14C creation , post processed by and exponential decay. Again, it’s rather like borehole temperature. You don’t get the temperature TS by plotting temp vs depth.
Since per mil is a ratio it makes the vertical scale like a log scale and flattens the exp to a linear decay. So it should be possible to express the half-life as a slope and subtract it. The difference to that line is getting nearer to solar. The detrend will not be far from that.
However, the frequency content will change with time. Data in the recent section well under a half-life will still have a lot of higher frequency content. Older stuff will have filtered this out. This is the borehole problem. ( Though borehole is heat diffusion, it’s similar. )
This is why the data appears low-pass filtered in the spectrum.

October 17, 2016 8:19 am

Canman October 17, 2016 at 7:33 am
It’s not really clear to me what the vertical axis means. The “delta” must mean some kind of change, since the graphs go below zero at the end. Does the “(per mil)” mean atoms per million, atoms per millennium or something else?

‘Per mil’ means ‘part per thousand’. The ‘delta’ represents the per mil depletion in sample carbon 14 relative to a modern carbon sample (1955 Oxalic acid).

Greg Goodman
Reply to  Phil.
October 17, 2016 9:15 am

Well it’s not depletion if it’s +ve but , yes in principal.

Reply to  Greg Goodman
October 17, 2016 9:44 am

We call it radioactive ‘decay’ for a reason!

Greg Goodman
Reply to  Greg Goodman
October 17, 2016 9:57 am

So d14C should be plotted negative 😉

ren
October 17, 2016 9:29 am

In periods of low solar activity changes Earth’s magnetic field will affect the atmosphere due to the modulation of the GCR.
http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/Swarm/Earth_s_magnetic_heartbeat

October 17, 2016 10:13 am

Excellent work Willis.
As I noted when “Javier” posted his surprsing results, there was no attached data and no attached methods ( Code)
How many years have you and I been asking for the same BASIC STUFF. And yet folks on both sides will swallow BS as long as it supports their cherished notions. fake skeptics all.
I do have one problem with your post
‘So to recap: IF the claims are true that the changes in ∆14C shown in Figure 6 reflect changes in cosmic rays and that the changes in cosmic rays result in the claimed changes in temperature, then twenty thousand years ago the earth should have been 100°C cooler. Even if I’m wrong by 100%, it is still saying that it was 50°C cooler back then … didn’t happen.”
One problem with cosmic rays and cloudiness is this. It’s threshholded.
Lets imagine a response curve with number of CCN on the X axis and Cloudiness on the Y axis.
The Theory goes that as GCR increase CCN, then cloudiness goes up.
Fair enough. We have CCN from terrestrial sources and at times these are augmented by CCN formed from GCR.. granted for the sake of argument..
However, the response –cloudiness– is thresholded. Hard to get less than zero clouds and more that 100% cloudy.
Consequently its somewhat unfair to extrapolate the LIA response linearly to suggest a 100C cooler
Put it this way.. Say for the sake of argument that we are at 70% cloudy.. increasing CCN cant make it anyomore cloudy than 100% so there is threshold of temperature drop.
The problem of threshholding hit me when I was looking at GCR and cloud data from satellites. If an are of the earth is already 100% cloudy… well GCRs are an utter on a bull.. Or if you are in a dry area with not enough water vapor.. all the CCN in the universe wont help you.
Any way. good work.

Greg Goodman
Reply to  Steven Mosher
October 17, 2016 3:31 pm

Mosh’ & Willis.
As I explained above the ‘trend’ of the graph is basically the exponential decay plotted on a proportional axis scale. So detrending the data is ( roughly ) just removing this. That means that the 100 deg. C argument is spurious.
There is also the heavier damping of the early record and the recent section ( where you pick out the 2 deg C scaling ) which is a lot more sensitive.
Now I’m not saying I find the overlay analysis at all convincing. As Peter Sable said, this is Mickey Mann type work.
This record is not a direct record of 14C , it’s more like a borehole temp profile is to a temp TS but it will have bumps in about the right place to give some idea of the presence of any cycles. This will be distorted because of varying frequency filtering but the bumps are there and probably are rough indication of any cycle change in 14C creation.
It’s a kludge and all these caveats were not presented in the article of cited paper. But the 100 deg. argument seems to come from a lack of time spent trying to understand how the data relates to 14C generations in the atmosphere and how it is modified over time.
The line you are trying to use for linear regression and projection way outside the tiny calibration period you have chosen is just the 5730y exp. decay process. And sorry , it’s not linear.

Reply to  Steven Mosher
October 18, 2016 1:51 pm

As I noted when “Javier” posted his surprsing results, there was no attached data and no attached methods ( Code)

Steven, as I told you at Judith’s blog, that is a totally invalid request. My article is a review. I have not used any data nor any methods. Everything is peer reviewed and published in the scientific literature. If you disagree you can take it to the original authors.
That you keep asking for nonexistent data or methods indicates that you don’t have anything to say.

October 17, 2016 10:30 am

Milankovich cycles can explain long term cycles to some extent but fail to tell us when the next ice age will start. Maybe we need the cosmic ray flux to explain that.

October 17, 2016 10:31 am

How many parameters was it does it take to fit an Elephant ?

LT
October 17, 2016 10:56 am

My problem with the INTCAL13 Proxy is that if direct measurements of neutrons fluctuate +/- 5% on average over a solar cycle, then the INTCAL 13 Proxy indicates there were many thousands of times more cosmic rays striking earths atmosphere 20K years ago than currently, assuming the OULU record can be correlated with the INTCAL13 proxy over the same time period.
http://cosmicrays.oulu.fi/webform/monitor.gif

Greg Goodman
Reply to  LT
October 17, 2016 3:35 pm

“My problem with the INTCAL13 Proxy is…”
Jeez, INTCAL13 is not a proxy, it’s a calibration curve for radio-carbon dating. There may be some proxy info in there but it’s NOT figure 1.
It may be something similar to the detrended line.

Matthew Marler
October 17, 2016 11:27 am

Without giving my own critiques and evaluations, I want to thank Javier and Willis Eschenbach for an interesting discussion.

JohnKnight
October 17, 2016 12:28 pm

“It is a record of historical variations in the levels of the carbon isotope 14C.”
A record of historical variations? . . . crazy talk, to me.

October 17, 2016 1:03 pm

Slightly OT but in reading “The first three minutes” recently by Steven Weinburg, I came across an issue with galaxies which potentially impacts on the Shaviv hypothesis that very long term (100s of millions of yrs) cycles in cosmic ray abundance are linked to our galaxy’s rotation and the passage of our solar system, near the outer end of a galactic arm, through patches of clean and dirty space.
Consider our solar system. How fast do Mercury, Venus and Earth orbit the sun? Many tens, even hundreds of times faster than the outer planets like Uranus and Neptune. The speed and timing of orbit is linked to proximity to the sun and strength of gravitation.
Now consider a typical galaxy with its evocatively curved arms. The arms’ curvature shows that the outer arms orbit a little slower than the center; however the difference in orbital speed between the center and the outer margins is much smaller than in with planetary orbits in a solar system. If luminous lines were connected between our solar system planets in the manner of a galactic arm, then within a single orbit of an outer planet this line would be stretched and broken multiple times by hundreds of orbits of the inner planets.
This is a very big difference – the orbit of galactic arms does not fall off with distance from the galactic center as do planetary orbits. This can only mean that the galaxy’s mass is not concentrated in the center as the light based image of the galaxy would suggest. This leads cosmologists to the conclusion that galaxies are enveloped in a disc, or even a doughnut, of invisible dark matter which nonetheless exerts gravitational pull.
Now if the rotating galaxy has similar orbital speeds along its arms due to a cloud of dark matter orbiting with it, then it follows that any cosmic ray and dust clouds will also be carried around with the galaxy’s rotation.
This contradicts the picture of galactic arms orbiting through (relatively) static regions if space. If galaxys orbit while embedded in dark matter clouds, and both orbit together, this makes it impossible for galactic arms to orbit through nonmoving clouds of dust – all neighboring material would be gravitationally caught up in the orbiting of the galaxy with its dark matter halo.

ferd berple
Reply to  ptolemy2
October 17, 2016 1:27 pm

recent work shows that gravitational rotation varies with visible matter, regardless of galaxy type. this contradicts the dark matter hypothesis, because dark matter must vary by galaxy type to maintain observed rotation.
which suggests that the theory of gravity is incomplete, and that the dark matter hypothesis is wrong.

Greg Goodman
Reply to  ferd berple
October 17, 2016 3:39 pm

IMHO dark matter is a desperate fudge factor.

Reply to  ferd berple
October 18, 2016 1:50 pm

ferd, any particular link to the “recent work”?

Crispin in Waterloo but really in Bishkek
Reply to  ptolemy2
October 17, 2016 7:33 pm

Ptolemy2
It works better if one allows for two types of additional matter: Dark Matter and what I call Darker Matter. DM and DrM.
A shell of DrM much larger than the DM shell causes things to balance with standard gravity. One of the strangest shapes, gravitationally, is the barred spiral galaxy yet they are very common.
If it is true that DrM and DM exist, it changes conclusions about anything attributed wholly to visible mass bending light. It also means, for any meaningful purpose, there is an ‘ethereal’ shell of matter, interactive or not, through which we are passing at all times.
As you have noted, DM leaves conundrums and I propose that DrM solves them. The shell of DrM is very much larger than the DM.

JohnKnight
Reply to  ptolemy2
October 17, 2016 7:56 pm

“Consider our solar system. How fast do Mercury, Venus and Earth orbit the sun? Many tens, even hundreds of times faster than the outer planets like Uranus and Neptune. The speed and timing of orbit is linked to proximity to the sun and strength of gravitation.
Now consider a typical galaxy with its evocatively curved arms. The arms’ curvature shows that the outer arms orbit a little slower than the center; however the difference in orbital speed between the center and the outer margins is much smaller than in with planetary orbits in a solar system . . .
This is a very big difference – the orbit of galactic arms does not fall off with distance from the galactic center as do planetary orbits. This can only mean that the galaxy’s mass is not concentrated in the center as the light based image of the galaxy would suggest.’
No, there is a blatantly obvious alternative “meaning”, it seems to me; Those galaxies haven’t been rotating for billions of years.
I used to think it was impossible that modern science could be radically off on the whole notion of “deep time”, even after I witnessed things first hand (in my forties) that convinced me the God of the Book is for real . . and I sort of twisted the words in the Book to match up with the “deep time” concept I had always taken for granted . . but I’ve since seen so much assumptive reasoning in this realm, that I have grown rather skeptical of that old “truth” . .

William Astley
October 17, 2016 1:14 pm

Willis,
The mechanism saturates. You hence cannot extrapolate the cooling affect. The affect is real. It is difficult for any modern human to imagine the cyclic glacial phase. There have been 23 cycles.
The glacial cycle for the last 800,000 years has been 100,000 years in duration. The interglacial periods are short, start and end abruptly, and are around 10,000 years in duration. Note Canada, the Northern US states, and Northern Europe are covered by a 2 mile thick ice sheet for the 100,000 year glacial cycle.
You have no understanding as to what are the mechanisms. Note mechanisms is plural. You are not trying to solve the problem.
It is an observational fact (which has been proven in the last 10 years or so by the geomagnetic proxy specialists) that there are immense changes and extraordinarily rapid changes to the geomagnetic field strength and orientation.
The geomagnetic field strength is roughly 2 to 3 times less during the 100,000 year glacial cycle. Weaker geomagnetic field strength higher GCR striking the planet, more clouds, colder planet.
The problem (why the heck is the geomagnetic field abruptly and cyclically changing which is cause of glacial interglacial cycle) is impossible to solve as some of the dang assumptions are incorrect.
There are ruddy super high temperature burn marks and residue that is caused by massive plasma discharge on the surface of the planet at 18 locations on three continents which coincides with the last super large abrupt climate change ‘event’ (quotation marks around event as the YD cooling period lasted for 1200 years and the YD event is cyclic, not a one of. The YD event is a Heinrich event which causes both the initiation and termination of the interglacial period), the Younger Dryas abrupt cooling event (12,900 years ago) at which the time planet went from interglacial warm to glacial cold with 90% of the cooling occurring in less than a decade, at a time in which summer solar insolation at 65N was maximum.
There is the largest change in C14 in the Holocene at the time of the YD abrupt cooling event.
This is a holistic problem. There are piles and piles of anomalies and paradoxes (multiple fields) that have been ignored for decades. The paradoxes and anomalies all go away when the correct mechanisms are inserted.
The sun is significantly different than the standard model. There are more than 200 astronomical paradoxes and anomalies (in peer reviewed papers with author comments that the observations cannot be explained) that are connected with what happens when a very large body collapses which explains why there are burn marks on the surface of the earth and cyclic abrupt changes to the geomagnetic field.

Reply to  William Astley
October 17, 2016 1:23 pm

William
The glacial cycle for the last 800,000 years has been 100,000 years in duration.
Wrong. For the first 2/3 of the Pleistocene, between 3 million and 1 million years ago, the glacial-interglacial cycles had a time period of about 40,000 years, following the obliquity cycle. Then came the “mid Pleistocene revolution” or MPR about 1 million years ago when the spacing of interglacials abruptly lengthened to its current 100,000 year periodicity, following approximately the eccentricity cycle.
This is not the first time I have corrected this mistake in your posts.

Reply to  ptolemy2
October 17, 2016 1:24 pm

Sorry – you are right – I somehow overlooked the “800,000” in your text. :-/

Reply to  ptolemy2
October 17, 2016 3:41 pm

Wrong. The 100 Kyr cycle is a myth. The arguments are too long to put in a comment. Article in preparation. But the myth was already exposed in 2005:
Maslin, M. A., & Ridgwell, A. J. (2005). Mid-Pleistocene revolution and the ‘eccentricity myth’. Geological Society, London, Special Publications, 247(1), 19-34.

Alastair Brickell
Reply to  William Astley
October 17, 2016 3:39 pm

William Astley @1:14
“burn marks on the surface of the earth”
Could you please give some more details about these (eg. ages and locations) or perhaps a reference.
Thanks.

ferdberple
October 17, 2016 1:42 pm

Even if I’m wrong by 100%, it is still saying that it was 50°C cooler back then … didn’t happen.
=============
likely due to the 3 phases of water, earth’s temp never seems to go much outside of the range 11C to 22C, no matter what. Sort of like a car sitting in a deep U shaped valley with vertical sides. No matter how much gas you apply, unless you have a rocket motor, you are stuck between the bottom and the vertical sides.
For this reason, any attempt to extrapolate a temp change of 50°C is likely more than simply wrong by 100%. More likely it is 100% wrong.
ps: no one seems to have noticed the small hockey stick on Figure 4 around yr 2000. Modern warm period?

Reply to  ferdberple
October 17, 2016 3:46 pm

“no one seems to have noticed the small hockey stick on Figure 4 around yr 2000. Modern warm period?”
You bet. Nuclear bomb warming of the 14C record. We are producing all sorts of hockey sticks. This one will disappear in about only 50,000 years. It is one of the basis some people defend we are in a new geological period.

Reply to  Javier
October 17, 2016 10:45 pm

Javier October 17, 2016 at 3:46 pm
“no one seems to have noticed the small hockey stick on Figure 4 around yr 2000. Modern warm period?”
You bet. Nuclear bomb warming of the 14C record.

Fig 4 is supposed to be the INTCAL13 data in which case the most recent data is 1950, so it’s not nuclear in origin.

Greg Goodman
Reply to  ferdberple
October 17, 2016 3:47 pm

“likely due to the 3 phases of water,”
Likely due to being too quick to criticise and not thinking about the data.
Do you know the story about the guys who took a very short period of data from a non-linear system and foolishly extrapolated it WAY outside the domain of the calibration and then started making very confident claims about the extreme changes it predicted ?

TLMango
October 17, 2016 4:15 pm

” The wavelet spectrum of solar activity (Fig. 4B) shows that the amplitudes of these
periodicities have varied in time, that is, the de Vries cycle amplitude has varied with
a period of about 2,200 y, called the Hallstatt cycle (29). ”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . ( ren October 17, 2016 at 7:48 am )
As usual, ren gets it right !
And . . there is not only variability in the deVries/Suess but also in the Hallstatt cycle
itself. During inter-glacial and glacial periods, the Hallstatt cycle varies between 2208
and 2313 years respectively. The 2313 year long-Hallstatt cycle is an expression of
the planet’s influence over the sun. The 2208 year short-Hallstatt is an expression of
the sun’s momentum and acceleration influencing the planets.
The sun is 750 times more massive than all of its satellites. It is the acceleration of
our massive sun that generates force in our solar system, not the planets. Therefore
it is the 2208 year short-cycle that dominates during an inter-glacial. But . . during
glacial periods the sun loses much of its acceleration and the 2313 year long-cycle
then takes over.
There is a lot of confusion regarding the short Hallstatt cycle (2208 years), the long
Hallstatt cycle (2313 years) and the Charvatova cycle (2402 years). The Damon and
Sonnett 14C data has been used by everybody to show correlation. This is unfortunate
because this data does belong to the Hallstatt cycle.
The 2402 year Charvatova cycle is physically visible in the disordered pattern of the
sun’s orbit around the solar system’s center of mass. The Charvatova cycle is directly
linked to the earth’s axial precession, another physically visible event.
…….Dreschhoff, 2007. Paleo-Astrophysical data in relation to temporal characteristics
…….of the solar magnetic field. Proceedings of the 30th International Cosmic Ray
…….Conference vol. 1, 541-544.
…….
…….Damon and Sonnett, 1991. Solar and terrestrial components of the atmospheric
…….14C variation spectrum. The Sun in Time. The Univ. of Ariz. Press, 360-388.
…….
Please visit Weathercycles.wordpress
” Fibonacci and climate “

Crispin in Waterloo but really in Bishkek
October 17, 2016 4:45 pm

“When the combined magnetic field is strong, it deflects the cosmic rays away from the earth. When it is weak, more cosmic rays strike the earth.”
Surely the incidence of CR and GCR varies quite a bit? I can’t see teasing a signal out if it.
CR also come from the sun, not so? What fraction?
Maybe 14C is a poor proxy for CR. 10Be might serve far better. Does the 14C curve match the 10Be curve? Why not? If the proposed formation method is valid they should match perfectly.
Some plants may take up 14C preferentially just as bananas like Potassium 40 which explains why all bananas are radioactive. During an ice age that 14C gobbling activity might be suppressed. It could be something growing in the ocean.
I’d say a 2400 year cycle is not evident.