We can end the climate policy wars: demand a test of the models

By Larry Kummer. From the Fabius Maximus website.

Summary: This is the last of my series about ways to resolve the public policy debate about climate change. It puts my proposal to test the models in a wider context of science norms and the climate science literature. My experience shows that neither side of the climate wars has much interest in a fair test; both sides want to win through politics. Resolving the climate policy wars through science will require action by us, the American public.

Ending the climate policy debate the right way

Do you trust the predictions of climate models? That is, do they provide an adequate basis on which to make major public policy decisions about issues with massive social, economic and environmental effects? In response to my posts on several high-profile websites, I’ve had discussions about this with hundreds of people. Some say “yes”; some say “no”. The responses are alike in that both sides have sublime confidence in their answers; the discussions are alike in they quickly become a cacophony.

The natural result: while a slim majority of the public says they “worry” about climate change — they consistently rank it near or at the bottom of their policy concerns. Accordingly, the US public policy machinery has gridlocked on this issue.

Yet the issue continues to burn, absorbing policy makers’ attention and scarce public funds. Worst of all, the paralysis prevents efforts to prepare even for the almost certain repeat of past climate events — as Tropical Storm Sandy showed NYC and several studies have shown for Houston — and distracts attention from other serious environmental problems (e.g., destruction of ocean ecosystems).

How can we resolve this policy deadlock?  Eventually, either the weather or science will answer our questions, albeit perhaps at great cost. We could just vote, abandoning the pretense there is any rational basis for US public policy (fyi, neither Kansas nor Alabama voted that Pi = 3).

We can do better. The government can focus the institutions of science on questions of public policy importance. We didn’t wait for the normal course of research to produce an atomic bomb or send men to the moon. We’re paying for it, so the government can set standards for research, as is routinely done for the military and health care industries (e.g., FDA drug approval regulations).

The policy debate turns on the reliability of the predictions of climate models. These can be tested to give “good enough” answers for policy decision-makers so that they can either proceed or require more research. I proposed one way to do this in Climate scientists can restart the climate change debate & win: test the models! — with includes a long list of cites (with links) to the literature about this topic. This post shows that such a test is in accord with both the norms of science and the work of climate scientists.

We can resolve this policy debate.  So far America lacks only the will to do so. That will have to come from us, the American public.

The goal: providing a sound basis for public policy

“Thus an extraordinary claim requires “extraordinary” (meaning stronger than usual) proof.”

— By Marcello Truzzi in “Zetetic Ruminations on Skepticism and Anomalies in Science“, Zetetic Scholar, August 1987. See the full text here.

“For such a model there is no need to ask the question ‘Is the model true?’. If ‘truth’ is to be the ‘whole truth’ the answer must be ‘No’. The only question of interest is ‘Is the model illuminating and useful?’”

— G.E.P. Box in “Robustness in the strategy of scientific model building” (1978). He also said “All models are wrong; some are useful.”

Measures to fix climate change range from massive (e.g., carbon taxes and new regulations) to changing the nature of our economic system (as urged by Pope Francis and Naomi Kleinclip_image001). Such actions requires stronger proof than usual in science (academic disputes are so vicious because the stakes are so small). On the other hand, politics is not geometry; it’s “the art of the possible” (Bismarck, 1867). Perfect proof is not needed. The norms of science can guide us in constructing useful tests.

Successful predictions: the gold standard for validating theories

“Probably {scientists’} most deeply held values concern predictions: they should be accurate; quantitative predictions are preferable to qualitative ones; whatever the margin of permissible error, it should be consistently satisfied in a given field; and so on.”

— Thomas Kuhn in The Structure of Scientific Revolutionsclip_image001[1] (1962).

“Confirmations should count only if they are the result of risky predictions; that is to say, if, unenlightened by the theory in question, we should have expected an event which was incompatible with the theory — an event which would have refuted the theory.”

— Karl Popper in Conjectures and Refutations: The Growth of Scientific Knowledgeclip_image001[2] (1963).

“The ultimate goal of a positive science is the development of a “theory” or, “hypothesis” that yields valid and meaningful (i.e., not truistic) predictions about phenomena not yet observed. … the only relevant test of the validity of a hypothesis is comparison of its predictions with experience.”

— Milton Friedman in “The Methodology of Positive Economics“ from Essays in Positive Economicsclip_image001[3] (1966).

“Some annoying propositions: Complex econometrics never convinces anyone. … Natural experiments rule. But so do surprising predictions that come true.”

— Paul Krugman in “What have we learned since 2008“ (2016). True as well for climate science.

The policy debate rightly turns on the reliability of climate models. Models produce projections of global temperatures when run with estimates of future conditions (e.g., aerosols and greenhouse gases). When run with observations they produce predictions which can be compared with actual temperatures to determine the model’s skill. These tests are hindcasting, comparing models’ predictions with past temperatures. That’s a problem.

“One of the main problems faced by predictions of long-term climate change is that they are difficult to evaluate. … Trying to use present predictions of past climate change across historical periods as a verification tool is open to the allegation of tuning, because those predictions have been made with the benefit of hindsight and are not demonstrably independent of the data that they are trying to predict.

— “Assessment of the first consensus prediction on climate change“, David J. Frame and Dáithí A. Stone, Nature Climate Change, April 2013.

“…results that are predicted “out-of-sample” demonstrate more useful skill than results that are tuned for (or accommodated).”

— “A practical philosophy of complex climate modelling” by Gavin A. Schmidt and Steven Sherwood, European Journal for Philosophy of Science, May 2015 (ungated copy).

Don’t believe the excuses: models can be thoroughly tested

Models should be tested vs. out of sample observations to prevent “tuning” the model to match known data (even inadvertently), for the same reason that scientists run double-blind experiments). The future is the ideal out of sample data, since model designers cannot tune their models to it. Unfortunately…

“…if we had observations of the future, we obviously would trust them more than models, but unfortunately observations of the future are not available at this time.”

— Thomas R. Knutson and Robert E. Tuleya, note in Journal of Climate, December 2005.

There is a solution. The models from the first four IPCC assessment reports can be run with observations made after their design (from their future, our past) — a special kind of hindcast.

“To avoid confusion, it should perhaps be noted explicitly that the “predictions” by which the validity of a hypothesis is tested need not be about phenomena that have not yet occurred, that is, need not be forecasts of future events; they may be about phenomena that have occurred but observations on which have not yet been made or are not known to the person making the prediction.”

— Milton Friedman, ibid.

“However, the passage of time helps with this problem: the scientific community has now been working on the climate change topic for a period comparable to the prediction and the timescales over which the climate is expected to respond to these types of external forcing (from now on simply referred to as the response). This provides the opportunity to start evaluating past predictions of long-term climate change: even though we are only halfway through the period explicitly referred to in some predictions, we think it is reasonable to start evaluating their performance…”

— Frum and Stone, ibid.

We can run the models as they were originally run for the IPCC in the First Assessment Report (1990), in the Second (1995), and the Third (2001) — using actual emissions as inputs but with no changes of the algorithms, etc. The results allow testing of their predictions over multi-decade periods.

These older models were considered skillful when published, so determination of their skill will help us decide if we now have sufficiently strong evidence to take large-scale policy action on climate change. The cost of this test will be trivial compared to overall cost of climate science research — and even more so compared to the stakes at risk for the world should the high-end impact forecasts prove correct.

Determining models’ skill

“Confirmations should count only if they are the result of risky predictions; that is to say, if, unenlightened by the theory in question, we should have expected an event which was incompatible with the theory — an event which would have refuted the theory.”

— Karl Popper in Conjectures and Refutations: The Growth of Scientific Knowledgeclip_image001[4] (1963).

“We stress that adequacy or utility of climate models is best assessed via their skill against more naıve predictions.”

— Mann-Sherwood, ibid.

How do we evaluate the skill of models? A prediction of warming says little, since the world has been warming since the mid-19th century — so continued warming is a “naive” prediction. A simple continuation of trends is one form of baseline against which to compare a model’s predictions.

The literature proposes more sophisticated baselines which raise the bar for success. These tests will produce data, not black and white answers. What would come next in the policy process? For a summary see “The ‘uncertainty loop’ haunting our climate models” by David Roberts at Vox, 23 October 2015.

clip_image002

From “The uncertainty loop haunting our climate models” at VOX, 23 October 2016. Click to enlarge.

Have model predictions been tested?

“The scientific community has placed little emphasis on providing assessments of CMP {climate model prediction} quality in light of performance at severe tests. … CMP quality is thus supposed to depend on simulation accuracy. However, simulation accuracy is not a measure of test severity. If, for example, a simulation’s agreement with data results from accommodation of the data, the agreement will not be unlikely, and therefore the data will not severely test the suitability of the model that generated the simulation for making any predictions.”

— “Should we assess climate model predictions in light of severe tests?” by Joel Katzav in EOS (by the American Geophysical Union), 11 June 2011.

A proposal similar to mine was made by Roger Pielke Jr. in “Climate predictions and observations“, Nature Geoscience, April 2008. Oddly, this has not been done, although there have been simple examinations of model projections (i.e., using estimates of future data, not predictions using observations), countless naive hindcasts (predicting the past using observations available to model developers), and reports of successful predictions of specific components of weather dynamics (useful if it were to be done systematically so an overall “score” was produced).

For a review of this literature see (f) in the For More Information section of my proposal.

Conclusions

In my experience both sides in the public policy debate have become intransigent and excessively confident. Hence the disinterest of both sides in testing since they plan to win by brute force: electing politicians that agree with them. I’ve found a few exceptions, such as climate scientists Roger Pielke Sr. and Judith Curry, and meteorologist Anthony Watts. More common are the many scientists who told me that they shifted to low-profile research topics to avoid the pressure, or have abandoned climate science entirely (e.g., Roger Pielke Jr.).

We — the American public — have to force change in this dysfunctional public policy debate. We pay for most climate science research, and can focus it on providing answers that we need. The alternative is to wait for the weather to answer our questions, after which we pay the costs. They might be high.

clip_image003

Other posts about the climate policy debate

This post is a summary of the information and conclusions from these posts, which discuss these matters in greater detail.

  1. How we broke the climate change debates. Lessons learned for the future.
  2. My proposal: Climate scientists can restart the climate change debate – & win.
  3. Thomas Kuhn tells us what we need to know about climate science.
  4. Daniel Davies’ insights about predictions can unlock the climate change debate.
  5. Karl Popper explains how to open the deadlocked climate policy debate.
  6. Paul Krugman talks about economics. Climate scientists can learn from his insights.
  7. Milton Friedman’s advice about restarting the climate policy debate.
Get notified when a new post is published.
Subscribe today!
0 0 votes
Article Rating
259 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
PD
March 9, 2016 12:58 pm

On the Pi = 3 mentioned above, always check Snopes.com:

PD
Reply to  PD
March 9, 2016 1:15 pm

I misread. “neither…”

3¢worth
March 9, 2016 1:08 pm

I find the “Climate Uncertainty Loop” interesting and telling. It says. “How will those effects translate into damage to human health and economies.” It doesn’t make any mention of the benefits to human health and economies. Why not? Given that everything I have read about the middle ages indicated the benefits of a warmer climate, particularly the longer growing season and higher crop yields. The result was a large increase in population in medieval Europe.

Marcus
March 9, 2016 1:15 pm

..Oh Boy !! more on the ” Gender and Glaciers ” study !! ( next week… ” Transgendered Glaciers have feelings too ! )
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/03/08/study-glaciers-varied-impact-on-men-women-cost-taxpayers-big-bucks.html?intcmp=hpbt4

March 9, 2016 1:52 pm

“Summary: This is the last of my series about ways to resolve the public policy debate about climate change.”
What public policy debate?
Shall we have a public policy debate on the effect of witches on the harvest?
There has been endless policy without ever defining the “Climate Change” these policies seek to effect.
Kind of hard to have a debate when one side studiously evades defining of what they speak.
So yippee, thankfully this will be the last of a series about ways to resolve a debate we have not yet had and face serious obstruction from our own government officials, in every attempt to initiate this discussion.
The Guild Of Parasites, attempted to institute a world wide tax without accountability, hardly surprising they will not discuss their thieving ways.Nor their “right” to steal.
Kleptocracy rules.
Via the Big Lie.

March 9, 2016 2:22 pm

Judging the temperature vs time performance of a climate model should be simple. Engineers use percent complete vs time to compare actual vs scheduled progress all the time. It’s a simple process that would suit model performance evaluation, but the key is to keep the original and any revised data available and visible at all times.
The reason for this is simple – because many projects fall behind schedule, revised schedules always start at the current status at that time, falsely indicating the project is always on schedule, assuming the end date is not changed.
Periodic reviews are represented by a new schedule but the original and any new schedules are always visible.
This is not rocket science.

Reply to  Terence M
March 9, 2016 2:30 pm

Judging the temperature vs time performance of a climate model should be simple.

But it isn’t. First it should be regional temps by area over time, worse still we can’t even do a good enough job of even measuring regional temps at the needed resolution.

Reply to  Terence M
March 9, 2016 2:52 pm

Rocket science is predictable. Earth science is not.
And it’s not about judging the temperature vs time performance of the climate models at all!

trafamadore
Reply to  Aphan
March 9, 2016 3:51 pm

Then why do rockets blow up?

Reply to  trafamadore
March 9, 2016 4:57 pm

” Then why do rockets blow up?”
Engineering, budget and human error.

Reply to  Aphan
March 9, 2016 4:29 pm

rocket: “a cylindrical projectile that can be propelled to a great height or distance by the combustion of its contents, used typically as a firework or signal.”
“Why do rockets blow up?” Because they are designed to!

Reply to  Terence M
March 10, 2016 6:40 pm

“Judging the temperature vs time performance of a climate model should be simple. ”
It is.
Some models do really well
Other models, not so well.
But we dont need models to set policy.

commieBob
March 9, 2016 3:08 pm

We — the American public — have to force change in this dysfunctional public policy debate.

Good luck with that. Congress literally doesn’t care what we think. We have worse problems than a gridlock on climate policy.

co2islife
March 9, 2016 3:26 pm

What is needed is an open source climate model and temperature reconstruction. There is 0.000% Chance the Hockystick would ever be recreated in an open source effort, 0.0000%. The IPCC models have an R^2 close to 0.00, and yet they hold them up as credible models. The highest R^2 between CO2 and temperature is reached when temperature is lagged by 800 to 1500 years, meaning temperature drives CO2, not vise versa. Bottom line, climate models are designed to reach a foregone conclusion, and are not designed to reach the truth. An open source effort would prove that beyond any reasonable doubt.

Reply to  co2islife
March 9, 2016 4:24 pm

No effort, open source or not, can bottoms up from first principles of physics and chemistry model climate. There are ar least seven orders of magnitude computational constraints. See my previous guest post here on same. Parameterization is unavoidable. And that in turn introduces the unavoidable problem of attribution. More extensive comment upthread.

Reply to  ristvan
March 9, 2016 7:21 pm

Well said Ristvan. Although rather obvious to anyone who’s ever actually tried to describe a complex system in a computerized model.
Plus (I’ve said this before but I do think it’s relevant) you just have to look at how big an influence major volcanic eruptions have had on the output of models that were tweaked to show how well they could forecast the past. Any model purporting to predict future climate would have to also predict future volcanic activity in the same detail and with the same precision as its future weather patterns.
Not a hope, in my humble opinion.

seaice1
Reply to  ristvan
March 10, 2016 5:49 am

No effort, open source or not, can bottoms up from first principles of physics and chemistry model a human. Or even a helium atom. Nonetheless, we seem to find human biology and physics useful.

rich
March 9, 2016 3:50 pm

The answer is to have all scientists to do that pro bono.

Paul Penrose
March 9, 2016 4:38 pm

There is simply no point in trying to test the models; they are massive pieces of computer software that were written by a series of people (mostly graduate students) that had little or no training in the field of software design and development. The odds that the models are free of serious errors is almost zero. If you wish to have this done right, they need to start over at the requirements phase with professional software engineers.

JohnKnight
March 9, 2016 4:58 pm

Mr, Kummer,
This is a nutshell description of what I see you doing here;
A supposed/contrived “climate crisis” has been hawked to the public ad nauseum, but “skeptics” have successfully defused/prevented the public from taking the matter seriously.
You’ve re-named that failed attempt to convince the public there is a climate crisis; “gridlock”, and are here trying to convince “skeptics” to help the hawkers get another shot at convincing the public to take “climate change” seriously.
Creepy stuff, as I see it.

Bubba Cow
Reply to  JohnKnight
March 9, 2016 6:01 pm

bingo

Reply to  JohnKnight
March 9, 2016 6:28 pm

He says in his own blog comments the following-
“Most likely of all IMO — there will be no such test. It’s an obvious idea. If it would validate the models it would have been done and publicized widely. Like the “hockey stick.” My guess is that it’s been done, models failed, and so we’ve heard nothing of it — and will not hear anything about this. Unless people speak up.”
So he KNOWS that the models will most likely fail again even if the accurate CO2 levels are input (and he has no proof that they weren’t accurately input to increase regularly during early model runs either.) Models contain so many aspects that CO2 is only one of them, and he seems to assume that if that ONE factor was correctly controlled through time, it would prove something conclusive…other than “this is the correct CO2 increase over time”. ???
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/09/17/how-reliable-are-the-climate-models/
Models are a failure. Climate scientists wont run them again as a “test” because they know they will fail again. Skeptics don’t give a rats behind about a re-test because getting ONE thing (like CO2 increases) perfect DOES NOT mean that the end results would then be magically accurate. If you cant get the whole climate system right, getting one thing right DOES NOT make the models RIGHT. The whole suggestion is so stupid it’s never going to get any traction with either side and he admitted that much in his own thread. Why he is regurgitating it here, among a group that almost universally distrusts climate models (not all other types of models) is a mystery.

Reply to  Aphan
March 9, 2016 6:31 pm

Let me clarify….”CLIMATE models are a failure”..CURRENTLY. Not all models are failures. And maybe someday climate ones will actually get close to modeling our climate. The only thing I believe that current climate models are useful for…is determining to what degree we do not understand the climate yet. And they do that really well.

March 9, 2016 5:10 pm

Ask them to provide a model of actual climate change in action, instead of using data which doesn’t really prove anything. Sit back and wait for the insults, & other derogatory things among the worn out ones is the usage of “denier”

March 9, 2016 5:12 pm

If anyone is confused by what I said, the climate activists can’t actually prove what they say.

Robber
March 9, 2016 5:27 pm

There is no consensus on a climate model, ergo the science is not settled. Let the proponents of AGW first agree on a model that they assert predicts the next 100 years, and then validate it against the last 50 years.

Dems B. Dcvrs
March 9, 2016 5:29 pm

“We can end the climate policy wars: demand a test of the models”
Test has already been done, with Mother Nature saying wrong!

Pouncer
March 9, 2016 5:39 pm

How about a much simpler model validation?
The fear of warming rests in large part on the models of PAST climate based on proxies such as, famously, Michael Mann’s tree ring imagery. If the proxy model is valid, then current warming appears to be “unprecedented”. But if the model is flawed, then it is unreasonable to make any claims about how the past two centuries compare to the dozen or so prior centuries.
So pick a place where the proxies exist, but samples have not been collected or analyzed. Make a prediction, now, about what the results will be. Then go “do the experiment” — take samples, do statistics, draw graphs, etc. How closely does the calculated, modeled, prediction based on theory of past-climate measurement, via proxy, compare to the empirical, experimental, actual density or thickness or variability of the varves and tree rings and stoma … ?

Reply to  Pouncer
March 9, 2016 6:38 pm

But we have many proxy studies that prove that current warming is not unprecedented. Not in magnitude nor in speed. There have been entire cooperative reports written that document that climate change has happened much faster and to much greater extents in the past…waaaaaay before humans could be causing it. The “climate science community” likes to ignore them.
2002-Abrupt Climate Change-Inevitable Surprises-The National Academies Press
http://www.nap.edu/read/10136/chapter/1

Jack
March 9, 2016 5:56 pm

It is the scientific method versus the highly exaggerated post normal method. Highly exaggerated because they take the observer’s bias and turn it into an excuse for manipulating data.
Data should not be manipulated, otherwise how do you alter method. The bias is in the method to test the data. Also, bias is in interpretation of the result. That is why the data and method and results must he held to open discussion.
Yet we find post normal scientists, hiding data and method. Mann is a prime example. Having to go to FOI and courts is not advancing science.
So, in effect, they have stalled the advancement of science by using a corrupted peer review system.
Therefore, I do not see testing models will work until these very basic differences are cleared.

u.k(us)
March 9, 2016 5:58 pm

Where is the faith in the American public, even Churchill knew we would come thru.
I mean he famously said:
“You can always count on Americans to do the right thing – after they’ve tried everything else.”
Winston Churchill
======
We’re running out of the “everything else” part.
Get ready.

Reply to  u.k(us)
March 9, 2016 6:41 pm

Maybe “the right thing” is to accept climate change as normal and natural and ignore people who think we can control it. There is no evidence that we need to “do” anything at all. So to me, we’re a long, LONG way from trying “everything else”.

Titan 28
March 9, 2016 6:52 pm

I disagree with the claim here that each side is to blame and that each side is equally intransigent. Those who are skeptical have the scientific high ground. Author also assumes that the climate change debate is about science. Hogwash. While early on it might have been possible to see the disagreement in those terms, that is no longer the case. Climate change is about wealth transfer from the wealthy nations to the poor. You say no? U.S. just gave $500 million to some UN climate slush fund. Canada, now run by a nitwit, has earmarked $1.2 billion. Where do you think the money is going to go? Right. Parties, consultants, salary perks. Put another way, this is socialism, international style. Science? Give me a break.

Jim G1
March 9, 2016 7:23 pm

“Hence the disinterest of both sides in testing since they plan to win by brute force: electing politicians that agree with them.”
Which is the only way to win a public policy debate.

Pamela Gray
March 9, 2016 7:34 pm

I have come to believe that many regular everyday intelligent folks are willing to adhere to their preconceived beliefs, at great cost to themselves and those around them, till they sprout daisies regardless of what accurately made observations tell them otherwise. And no amount of gold standard research will persuade them to think they may be mistaken. Further, the more noisy these regular everyday people are, the greater chance the rest of us will have to suffer, along with them, the folly of their beliefs.
So how do we make progress? Somewhere down the road, when the future dawns, a small step will be taken towards a more informed understanding, one based on facts, not beliefs. But make no mistake, the steps will be small and many pockets of coinage will be lifted in homage to folly and mistaken belief in-between now and that small step forward.
So for those of us who see logic and the research method as the only way to think, I have also come to believe that the easy path is to retire and go fishing, thus reducing my blood pressure by a substantial amount. That is the upside of becoming jaded. You get to go fishing.
I just wish my desire to strive towards a more reasoned thought process would cooperate with my desire to go fishing. Sigh.

Reply to  Pamela Gray
March 9, 2016 7:42 pm

Pam,
Perfect wrap up here! Absolutely true and wise.
But you already HAVE a more reasoned thought process…you know how to think accurately. And its not “jaded” to accept the reality that many people don’t know how to, or don’t care enough to want to learn how to. Going fishing is a productive and comforting thing to do. It beats smacking stupids in the head with blunt objects until they lock you up instead. 🙂

Geistmaus
March 9, 2016 7:54 pm

Dear Gust Blogger,
This is *observational* science and not *experimental* science. Testing the models is not a matter of going out of your way to *do* things. It is a matter of not bothering to do anything at all. That is, sit on your duff and simply *wait.* Time tests the models with, or without, our help.
Which is to say, if replication is everything in science, then in observational science replication means that *patience* is everything. Time will disprove everything it needs to.
So when it comes to observational science and a ‘sound basis’ for public policy? The prescription is: Stick a sock in it, hold your horses, and simply wait.
If you don’t like that, turn to experimental science for your diktat needs.

JohnTyler
March 9, 2016 7:57 pm

This article is total rubbish.
The models have already been shown to be totally inaccurate and incapable of producing correct predictions.
Further, the models are simply curve fitting exercises; finagle with the variables and their interactions (this assumes you know ALL the relevant variables), until you get, hopefully, something that appears reasonable. But even this has produced ZERO models that have predicted the warming “pause.”
In fact, how many models can replicate the climate from the onset of the Medieval Warm Period, through the LIttle Ice Age , until say, 1890 (before humans really began spewing mass quantities of carbon into the atmosphere)?
Let me guess; NONE.

Tom Halla
Reply to  JohnTyler
March 9, 2016 8:11 pm

It is very reassuring to know that one’s opinions are well founded, but I agree that the models are irrelevant. Hilary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, and their followers do not base their opinions on the models except as maybe third hand hearsay.
It is politics, as a mass movement usually is, and dealing with it as politics is the only real approach.

Dr. S. Jeevananda Reddy
March 9, 2016 8:44 pm

Qualitative based on experience versus quantitative based on unsound models predictions — in USA few years back with reference to a severe Hurricane, modellers predicted a path with later several modifications and at it failed but a meteorologist who was regular at TV presentations and retired gave a prediction, which has come to a factual path and thus helped the government in taking timely action — southern USA.
In India the weatherman based on ground data presenting excellent weather forecasts using their local experience and by adding satellite cloud pictures. The model based predictions never reached to that level even to date though the governments are patronizing the modellers.
Models rarely account the local realities and thus variations go beyond 100% while the qualitative predictions account this and thus variations are minimum.
In the case of long range forecasts, even with sophisticated computers, the predictions are far from the traditional forests.
Dr. S. Jeevananda Reddy
Dr. S. Jeevananda Reddy

March 9, 2016 9:13 pm

“My experience shows that neither side of the climate wars has much interest in a fair test; both sides want to win through politics.”
Lost me right there. The two sides have no equivalence whatsoever. I am a disbeliever because the theory is clearly disproved by hard evidence. Skeptics have strenuously called for public debates of the science and alarmists thwart it. Anyone who libels us by implying any kind of equivalence on this issue is a flyweight without an opinion worth listening to.

March 9, 2016 9:41 pm

For estimates of the coming cooling and a discussion of the length of time required for testing see
http://climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com/2015/08/the-epistemology-of-climate-forecasting.html
Here is a quote..
‘Ava asks – the blue line is almost flat. – When will we know for sure that we are on the down slope of the thousand year cycle and heading towards another Little Ice Age.
Grandpa says- I’m glad to see that you have developed an early interest in Epistemology. Remember ,I mentioned the 60 year cycle, well, the data shows that the temperature peak in 2003 was close to a peak in both that cycle and the 1000 year cycle. If we are now entering the downslope of the 1000 year cycle then the next peak in the 60 year cycle at about 2063 should be lower than the 2003 peak and the next 60 year peak after that at about 2123 should be lower again, so, by that time ,if the peak is lower, we will be pretty sure that we are on our way to the next little ice age.
That is a long time to wait, but we will get some useful clues a long time before that. Look again at the red curve in Fig 3 – you can see that from the beginning of 2007 to the end of 2009 solar activity dropped to the lowest it has been for a long time. Remember the 12 year delay between the 1991 solar activity peak and the 2003 temperature trend break. , if there is a similar delay in the response to lower solar activity , earth should see a cold spell from 2019 to 2021 when you will be in Middle School.
It should also be noticeably cooler at the coolest part of the 60 year cycle – halfway through the present 60 year cycle at about 2033.
We can watch for these things to happen but meanwhile keep in mind that the overall cyclic trends can be disturbed for a time in some years by the El Nino weather patterns in the Pacific and the associated high temperatures that we see in for example 1998 ,2010 and especially from 2015 on………………
The climate models on which the entire Catastrophic Global Warming delusion rests are built without regard to the natural 60 and more importantly 1000 year cycles so obvious in the temperature record. The modelers approach is simply a scientific disaster and lacks even average commonsense .It is exactly like taking the temperature trend from say Feb – July and projecting it ahead linearly for 20 years or so. They back tune their models for less than 100 years when the relevant time scale is millennial. This is scientific malfeasance on a grand scale.
The temperature projections of the IPCC – UK Met office models and all the impact studies which derive from them have no solid foundation in empirical science being derived from inherently useless and specifically structurally flawed models. They provide no basis for the discussion of future climate trends and represent an enormous waste of time and money. As a foundation for Governmental climate and energy policy their forecasts are already seen to be grossly in error and are therefore worse than useless.”
The current climate model outcomes are irrelevant and untestable because the range of outcomes will fall outside the range of real world outcomes when, as seems most likely, we are on the cooling leg of the natural millennial cycle which peaked in about 2003.