The EPA is out of control – now they want to ban hobby race cars

The EPA is seeking to ban the freedom of individuals within the USA to convert street cars into race cars.

street-racecar-conversion

WUWT reader Wolfpack987 writes:
Another example of government abuse of power, the EPA is seeking to remove more freedoms from American citizens in the name of the environment, by prohibiting the act of converting street cars into race cars.  The sheer ridiculousness of this move to can be measured by how little of an impact it will have on the environment, given how little the number of cars converted into racecars per year.

Story:

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has proposed a regulation to prohibit conversion of vehicles originally designed for on-road use into racecars. The regulation would also make the sale of certain products for use on such vehicles illegal. The proposed regulation was contained within a non-related proposed regulation entitled “Greenhouse Gas Emissions and Fuel Efficiency Standards for Medium- and Heavy-Duty Engines and Vehicles—Phase 2.”

The regulation would impact all vehicle types, including the sports cars, sedans and hatch-backs commonly converted strictly for use at the track. While the Clean Air Act prohibits certain modifications to motor vehicles, it is clear that vehicles built or modified for racing, and not used on the streets, are not the “motor vehicles” that Congress intended to regulate.

“This proposed regulation represents overreaching by the agency, runs contrary to the law and defies decades of racing activity where EPA has acknowledged and allowed conversion of vehicles,” said SEMA President and CEO Chris Kersting. “Congress did not intend the original Clean Air Act to extend to vehicles modified for racing and has re-enforced that intent on more than one occasion.”

SEMA submitted comments in opposition to the regulation and met with the EPA to confirm the agency’s intentions. The EPA indicated that the regulation would prohibit conversion of vehicles into racecars and make the sale of certain emissions-related parts for use on converted vehicles illegal. Working with other affected organizations, including those representing legions of professional and hobbyist racers and fans, SEMA will continue to oppose the regulation through the administrative process and will seek congressional support and judicial intervention as necessary.

The EPA has indicated it expects to publish final regulations by July 2016.

https://www.sema.org/news/2016/02/08/epa-seeks-to-prohibit-conversion-of-vehicles-into-racecars


This is truly insane, the amount of emissions produced by race cars on any given day is miniscule in comparison to the total amount of cars and emissions in the USA every day. They are making a ham-handed attempt at solving a non-existent problem.

number-of-vehicles-in-the-united-states-since-1990[1]

This is what happens when bureaucracy runs out of things to do, they up the ante, completely unaware of how ridiculous they look or how pointless the idea is.

 

304 thoughts on “The EPA is out of control – now they want to ban hobby race cars

  1. They will not stop until every action that could be taken by an American citizen receives an approval permit.

    • Did YOU get YOUR APPROVAL PERMIT to use the energy required to place THAT POST on THIS SUBJECT? NO???
      IT IS VERBOTEN

      • American citizen’s will receive a lifetime energy use permit, that will be closley monitored by the department of human activity. Upon reaching said limit you will report to the department of reassessment, euthanized with low a low Co2 process, you and your cold dead hands will be turned into soil ant green!

        . Soylent green.

      • The Authoritarians are cancer, constantly growing and endangering healthy normal life. Unless stopped they kill healthy normal life.

    • And a tax/fee/license…

      As the most successful president of my lifetime, Obama is guided by the core belief that the US represents evil white imperialism. His success in addressing reparations is nothing short of miraculous.

      He has placed revenuers between Americans and their doctors. The IRS, OSHA, ATF, EPA, Justice, etc- via regulation- have created a growing chasm between a small business and profit, and consequently FT hiring. The EPA literally has the power to regulate your breathing, family size and living conditions. He has added $10 trillion in debt while funneling hundreds of billions to bundlers/unions/UN re-distributers via CAGW.

      He has removed the US presence needed to maintain stability in the ME- empowering a radical muslim multi-country state of butchers and engulfing (white) Europe in a wave of islamic social destruction. Meanwhile, he has guaranteed nuclear weapons and hundreds of billions to the world’s largest financier of islamic terror. He has turned the US southern border, and 300 US cities, into social/financial time bombs…

      Were it not for 7 years of zero rates and the incredible power of US ingenuity, most notably the energy industry, we’d already be toast.

      My buddy’s 69′ Chevelle is the least of our worries.

    • “They will not stop until every action that could be taken by an American citizen receives an approval permit.”
      They seem to be going after people who “cling to their bibles and guns” first.

    • Private aviation, private power boats, luxury motor yachts, Winnebago’s etc. all need to be banned!

      We want you all at home using Social Media where control is easy.

      Time for a Revolution!

      • Next it will be our lawn-mowers!

        But have no fear, the US federal government will subsidize the purchase of goats, lambs and clippers to keep our lawns neat and trim.

      • Aix – “Next it will be our lawn-mowers!”

        I’ve watched lawn-mower racing in the UK. I wasn’t sure if the US was into it but I checked and it is!

        http://www.letsmow.com/

        So, your remark might have started out as comic hyperbole but maybe it’ll turn out to be entirely true.

      • Concerning the huge number of issues and nuances that go into definitions (Look up the definition of “Stationary Engine” sometime, which has multiple facets and is extremely easy to misinterpret), I find the EPA’s reply unpersuasive. I think what we need is a universal Willis rule. Quote exactly what the problem is.

        I have enough federal regulations to read without having to search through huge sections of documents to find a small quotation.

      • I used to be an avid reader of R&T but I haven’t picked one up in years and your link reminds me why. Call me suspicious but this EPA is guided by this WH and they’re both composed of people who absolutely hate seeing common people possessing personal transport. And, to them, a racing car is the vulgar representation of that. The R&T I remembered would’ve recognized that fact and not been quite so conciliatory.

    • Sort of, but the way these ‘people’ work is much more puritan than that and based totally on the ‘I don’t like or do that so it is wrong’.

      Hence the I don’t smoke so you mustn’t. I don’t drive 4x4s or fast cars so it’s wrong. I don’t enjoy a drink so you shouldn’t have one…….. and on and on until you become a perfect little clone of their pathetic narrow views.

      The control of others freedom somehow appeals to this self-righteous smug little group and they will apply whatever rationale is the flavour of the day.

      Paradoxically they usually seem to call themselves ‘left-liberal’ which is the only funny aspect to the whole thing.

      • “Those that didn’t vote voted by default for it.”

        No. Those who participated in a completely broken, self-protecting system voted for it. Doesn’t matter who you voted for.

      • and anybody who pays income tax is an accomplice to every crime done by the thugs they hired and they have no right to complain.
        collaborators are sine qua non for a tyranny.
        let’s hear the excuses – ‘if i didn’t, somebody else would have’, ‘i was just following orders’, ‘i thought i could save a few’
        once there were men and the tea went in the bay.
        now there are only hobags dickering on the price and pretending they’re victims.

      • usurbrain: You are assuming that the Republican alternative would have made much of a difference.
        At best McCain would have done the same stuff, just a little bit slower.

      • MarkW,

        I don’t like McCain, but IMO an administration of his would have been significantly different from Obama’s.

        No Obama, no Obamacare. It barely passed and only by means of hook and crook. Pelosi and Reid on their own couldn’t have done with a president willing to join 100% of his GOP former congressional colleagues in opposing the monstrosity.

        Also, the US wouldn’t have pulled precipitously out of Iraq, but instead gotten a status of forces agreement, even out of the Iranian puppet regime. He campaigned on leaving 30,000 US troops in Iraq indefinitely, and an unstated number of contractors. With even a fraction of that force, ISIS couldn’t have taken Fallujah, Ramadi and Mosul.

      • Gloateus: There would have been no ObamaCare, but McCain was committed to fixing the health care “problem”. There would have been something else with a different name, but just as damaging.
        McCain is as much a global warming warrior as Obama, the difference there would have been he would have had more leverage to force the Republicans in congress to go along with the Democrats.

      • Gloateus Maximus February 9, 2016 at 2:28 pm

        I tend to agree with you.

        Now for those who decide not to vote. For what ever reason. No problem. I and those like me are perfectly happy to make the decisions regarding your life for you. Of course if there are more people who like me vote but side with the other firm we are kind of hosed.
        But make no mistake, no vote, no say. Others will dictate to you. In the past I have had this conversation. I would offer a “voter registration form” to a non and state as I have above, decide for yourself or I truly will.

        michael

      • >…for those who decide not to vote…

        I need something to vote -for-, and if I’m not for anything that’s presented, and especially if I have lost all confidence in the system to ever work in anyone’s favor but the looting class, I have better things to do with my time.

        Don’t discount the psychological effect of a significant majority of the voting-eligible population sitting out an election. That’s a very real threat to the legitimacy of any government. That’s why we’re hearing about mandatory voting all of a sudden, they know the winds are changing.

      • I can’t vote for anyone who honestly believes that gods exist, and can’t vote for anyone who wants to beat us with CAGW. So I can’t vote.

      • Sorry, Mark, but I can’t agree. Whatever McCain came up with, if anything, would have been along the lines of GOP proposals, which were actually about providing better health care at lower cost, rather than grabbing control of 14% of the economy and more say over people’s lives.

      • @ MarkW February 9, 2016 at 2:20 pm

        As I have often said, based on the current national leadership of the GOP, the only difference between them and the Democrats is the speed of the handcart, not its final destination.

    • It used to be said: In the USA, everything is allowed except that which is forbidden; in Europe, everything is forbidden except that which is allowed; and in Russia, everything is forbidden, even that which is allowed.

      Perhaps the EPA is taking a leaf out of Russia’s book.

      • I heard the actual quote as:
        “In the USA, everything is allowed except that which is forbidden; in Germany, everything is forbidden except that which is allowed; in Russia, everything is forbidden, even that which is allowed;and in Italy, everything is permitted, including that which is prohibited.”
        Quote attributed to Newton N Minnow, former FCC commissioner and law professor.
        Alternatively.
        “In England, what is permitted, is permitted, and what is prohibited, is prohibited. In America everything is permitted except for what is prohibited. In Germany everything is prohibited except for what is permitted. In France everything is permitted, even what is prohibited. In the USSR everything is prohibited, even what is permitted.”

      • I think the original quote was: “Everything not forbidden is compulsory”, the old totalitarian principle which I first heard in the 60’s.

        I aways though the US had fascist tendencies, but the present situation makes you think that heaven fordid, Trump might be the only choice to put a stop to the US’s headlong dash into a totalitarian state. All under the banner of: , we know what’s best for you. Sad end for a great nation…

      • I remember “Everything not forbidden is compulsory” as being from Merlin’s ants, Messor Barabus, in T H White’s classic tale Sword in the Stone. As far as I can tell just about everything is illegal in the UK if you read the small print of 1000 years, but since they did away with the rack, anything requiring proof can be gotten away with so long as you do not willingly confess.

      • I recall some Moscow teenagers being arrested and being charged with ‘mischievously exercising a right’.

    • “The terrible tyranny of the majority.”
      ― Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

      ……Or at least self-declared mandates that presuppose to be the majority

    • If you aren’t a citizen, or an illegal alien, you were not allowed to vote for it.

      I didn’t.

      g

    • co2islife. Not all of us did. I often have crazy daydreams that there was a way to make only those who voted for Obama pay for all his crazy schemes and all the deficits, rising costs, etc..
      But its chance of coming true is about as likely that the climate radicals can predict the mean annual global temperature to less than a degree in 2100. But it is a nice daydream.

      • Considering that the largest portion of those supporting our clown-in-chief are among the 47% who don’t pay federal income tax, that’s a fantasy that died aborning.

    • It’s not “Anyone who doesn’t vote gets the government they deserve”, its “Anyone who votes gets the government they deserve”

      Actually anyone who doesn’t vote bears no responsibility for voting imbeciles into government. Put another way, if you voted, IT’S YOUR FAULT.

      • Alx commented: “…Actually anyone who doesn’t vote bears no responsibility for voting imbeciles into government. Put another way, if you voted, IT’S YOUR FAULT…”

        So no voters = nobody’s fault? Failed logic. How about if you didn’t vote you may be responsible for keeping someone out of office that wasn’t an imbecile and should have won? I do agree that if you didn’t vote you have no room to complain about government.

      • @markl
        I’ve always held that the act of voting is the renewal of your license to bitch. If you didn’t vote, I’m not interested in listening.

    • I much prefer the one on the street outside the Dept. of Atmospheric Sciences, or whatever it is at the U of Aridzona. It is my laptop wallpaper, just so’s I don’t forget.

      g

  2. There are two things not to mess with when it comes to American culture: cars and guns. I thought the EPA would have more common sense.

      • I can understand the wish to own a gun (by the way, I live in England), but the US does have a ‘gun problem’, What are you going to do about it?

        You had 13,286 people killed by guns in 2015.
        You have as many killed by guns, as by car accidents.
        Almost 70% of homicide victims are by guns.
        27 people were shot (and killed) in the US on Xmas day alone.
        In 2015, there were 355 ‘mass shootings’.
        In the past 47 years, guns have killed more people than have died fighting wars…in all American history.
        Our (UK) death rate by guns is 0.2 (per 100,000). Yours is 10.2. Your rate is 25 times higher than other high-income countries.

        The US is seen as a violent country. Guns are not protecting you, they are killing you. I’m not smart enough to know the solution, but as someone has has long admired your country (despite its obvious flaws, and its international meddling), you have a problem. It’s an extremely serious problem. All of the above may already be known to you. But the problem is so severe, that it’s worth repeating over and over. You (the people of the US) seem to be concerned about terrorism, Russia threat, North Korean ambitions, even natural incidents, yet you are killing each other and not coming up with a solution to tackle it.

      • Baz,

        Gangsters are killing each other.

        Gun deaths occur mainly in two groups: young, urban minority males killing each other and old, rural white males killing themselves. In counties with the most guns, but few urban minority youths, the homicide rate is lower than most European countries. Guns actually save more lives than they take every year, as armed citizens protect themselves, their homes and families with firearms.

        Take away the drug trade and its turf wars, and the murder rate would plummet. Old men intent on suicide will do it by other means if they’re willing to use a gun, the surest method.

      • Dear Baz,

        1. Are those in the U.K. and Canada safer in their homes? No.

        — The rate of home burglary and armed robbery is much higher where citizens are known to be unarmed.

        Crime rates in general are higher where citizens do not have guns, the equalizer of society, to defend themselves with.

        2. The homicide rate, not the weapon-of-choice rate, is the key. In the U.K. , knives, broken glass, clubs, etc… make excellent murder weapons.

        3. A large % of those killed by guns were themselves opening fire on others and or involved in gang violence.

        4. Taking guns away from law-abiding citizens does nothing to stop criminals from getting guns. Check out the crime statistics anywhere and you will see that crime rates go UP after guns are taken away from citizens.

        5. I do not give a DARN what the situation is in other countries when it comes to my U. S. Constitutional Second Amendment Right to Bear Arms. I was not given that right by the government: I (and you, too, were) was born with it. The 2nd Amendment did not create that right; it merely codified it. It is the birthright of every human being on earth to defend themselves using effective means.

        Sincerely yours,

        Janice
        Card Carrying Member of the NRA

      • I can’t reply to Baz directly, so here’s the best I can do:

        Equating the legality of gun ownership to homicide rates works only slightly better than equating CO2 emissions to global warming.

        How can I say that? Simple. If there was a direct correlation, then not only should all countries with legal firearm ownership have high firearm homicide rate be high, but all countries with strict gun control should have low gun crime.

        Reality? Many countries with strict gun control have low homicide rates, but they are generally countries that had low homicide rates before they implemented strict gun control. For example, the UK (0.06 per 100k), France (0.21), Germany (0.07).

        Many countries with lax gun control laws have high homicide rates, such as the US (3.55).

        However, there are also many countries that have high homicide rates AND strict gun control, such as Venezuela (39.0), Mexico (6.34), and Russia (5.6).

        And then, there are the countries with lax gun control laws and low homicide rates, like Switzerland (0.23) and Finland (0.32).

        In fact, in many countries, the homicide rate using firearms has gone up since implementation of nearly complete bans on guns (UK, Australia, Venezuela).

        The reality remains, there is no simple solution, and to force one causes more problems than it solves. It appears that gun violence is based more on culture than on legality of guns. That means, simply banning guns will cause more deaths than leaving them legal. And, this doesn’t even touch on the subject of democide, where over 150 million people were slaughtered by their own governments in the 20th century alone. Banning guns will not solve that problem, either.

        And….this isn’t the place for gun debates.

        I’m just pointing out that the same, simplistic “one factor” attitude pervades the gun problem as it does global warming. It is far, far more complex than that.

      • Baz,

        If you’re scared, stay in England. The fact is, firearm violence in America has declined steadily, and that decline accelerated as states adopted “concealed carry” laws.

        Back when Democrats were normal, President Kennedy said that Americans should be armed.

        The trade-off is this: In a population of 315 million, there will be some firearm deaths. That’s the obvious downside. But the hidden downside is that confiscating firearms from law abiding citizens opens the door to real tyranny. It’s no accident that the Plan by commmuninst Saul Alinsky is being implemented:

        1) Healthcare – Control healthcare and you control the people.

        2) Poverty – Increase the Poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.

        3) Debt – Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.

        4) Gun Control – Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state.

        5) Welfare – Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income).

        6) Education – Take control of what people read and listen to – take control of what children learn in school.

        7) Religion – Remove the belief in God from the Government and schools.

        8) Class Warfare – Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to take (Tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.

        No one is calling for the confiscation of automobiles, which kill as many people as firearms. Furthermore, if you take the ten largest Democrat-controlled cities out of the statistics, America has one of the lowest death rates from firearms in the Western Hemisphere.

        I just read somewhere that firearm felonies by people who possess a concealed carry license are much lower than off-duty firearm crimes comitted by police officers. But we don’t tell the police they can’t have a firearm off-duty.

        Doesn’t it seem a little strange that this Administration is so desperate to disarm American citizens? Firearm violence has been declining steadily for decades. The problem is getting smaller. Why the desperation? And don’t you think being able to defend yoursef is a necessary adjunct to a 9-1-1 call? I pity your countrymen there. You’ve given up too much self-respect when you surrendered your best means of self defense.

        George Washington wrote:

        Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference – they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.

        That “evil interference” is happening right now. Those perpetrating it are the same ones who demand that citizens must surrender their protection.

        The only good bureaucrat is one with a pistol at his head. Put it in his hand and it’s good-bye to the Bill of Rights.
        — H.L. Mencken

        Second in the Bill of Rights is the right to bear arms.

      • Bains365 – Worlds smartest “ALLEGED” criminal – rule of law, she’s been accused but not convicted, so at the moment it’s just an allegation – mods can you note this on Brains posting because as it is its defamatory – obviously you missed it

      • We dont have a gun problem Baz we have a gang problem. The vast majority of those gun deaths a gang members killing each other. Paris proved that if a criminal wants a gun all they need is money. Eurpoe is awash in illegal guns form the former soviet block. You just dont see them because your criminal element is controlled and not killing each other in the street. Ironically the ease of acquiring soviet block military weaponry in Europe is one of the reasons the peace is kept between rival criminal elements in Europe. It is literally a case of mutually assured destruction.

      • @Baz

        The framers of our constitution created the second amendment as a deterrent to the abuse of government, our own, not yours. (it worked against yours too.)

        We have unprecedented freedoms in the USA and those freedoms carry some risk, but most Americans judge the risks warranted. On the whole it has worked well for us. What will you do when ISIS comes after you and your family in your home?

        In WWII Japanese Admiral Yamamoto, among many reasons, dismissed an attack on the US mainland because “They will be shooting at us from behind every blade of grass”, a reference to the prominence of gun ownership among the general population.

        To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin “Those who would sacrifice freedom for security will have neither”.

      • Baz-
        Your opening statement is flawed and you repeat the error throughout your rant. “…people killed by guns…”
        Like a friend said, “my guns have never jumped up and killed anyone.”

        One thing you may not have noticed is that gun and ammo sales during the Obama years have set records, repeatedly. Actions such as this from Obama’s EPA and his executive orders against individual rights are a driving factor in that increase.

        Your numbers are also blatantly flawed. Here’s a link for well- researched info that cuts through a lot of the misleading statistics about gun crimes, etc:
        https://reason.com/archives/2016/01/05/you-know-less-than-you-think-a/

        Ps Some might say that a “Redcoat” telling Americans that we can’t have guns is laughable.

        Pss You Brits have reduced your premature Winter deaths to ~25,000 old folks a year?
        Bloody good show. i.e. take the log out of your own eye…

      • well, gee – since laws work so well- why don’t they just make homicide illegal and there won’t be any!

      • “”””……
        Janice Moore

        February 9, 2016 at 1:21 pm

        Dear Baz,

        1. Are those in the U.K. and Canada safer in their homes? No. …..”””””

        You go get ’em Annie.

        More specifically, the ” Second Amendment ” is an order/instruction/warning to GOVERNMENT that they are not to INFRINGE on the absolute right of …. THE PEOPLE … to defend themselves and have the means for doing that.

        And that means the same PEOPLE who have a right to free speech, a free press, freedom of religion, and freedom of peaceable assembly and to petition the GOVERNMENT for redress of grievances; such as for example infringement of their right to have the means to defend themselves.

        Read ” More Guns, Less Crime ” and also ” Why everything you have Heard about Guns is Wrong ” by John Lott; an economist and statistician who set out to find the cost to the US economy, of private gun ownership, and ended up proving (with actual numbers) that private gun ownership by law abiding citizens saves the US economy millions of dollars a year.

        And in MOST cases, it is without having to actually use that means of self defense. Just having it usually suffices.

        ALL of the mass shootings that have happened in the USA in recent years have happened in designated gun free zones.

        We have plenty of gun control laws. We don’t have much control over the disposition of misuse cases.

        The Police do not, and will not defend any law abiding citizen against a violent criminal act. They just clean up the mess afterwards.

        When seconds count, the police are just minutes away. And cars DO kill far more people in the USA than guns

        g

      • Baz, we don’t have a gun problem, we have a criminal problem.
        The US’s gun violence rate is about in the middle of all countries.
        There are many countries with much stricter gun laws that have even more gun violence.
        There are countries with much looser gun laws, that have less gun violence.
        It’s not the guns, it’s the criminals.
        Exclude 3 or 4 cities from the numbers, and the US drops to one of the lowest gun violence countries, and those cities have amongst the toughest gun laws in the US.
        It’s not the guns, it’s the criminals.
        When you compare demographics, IE, like to like, the US has one of the lowest gun violence rates in the world.
        It’s not the guns, it’s the criminals.

        Of course, certain people don’t bother thinking through the whole issue.

      • The majority of gun deaths are suicides, about 60%, but suicide rates are much higher in many countries that limit or forbid gun ownership. Hey, BAZ, what was your point again?

      • You had 13,286 people killed by guns in 2015. You have as many killed by guns, as by car accidents.

        Don’t know where your getting your numbers but I would suggest you change sources. Official numbers usually run 2 years behind, this February the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration only has an estimate of automotive deaths for the first 9 months of 2015.

        NHTSA 02-16 Friday, February 5, 2016
        NHTSA estimates that more than 26,000 people died in traffic crashes in the first nine months of 2015, compared to the 23,796 fatalities in the first nine months of 2014.

        The final total for 2015 will likely be north of 34,000 which is not even close to the 13,286 you dug up from somewhere.

        In 2015, there were 355 ‘mass shootings’.

        Which says nothing about the rate of shooting per population.

        And the death rate:

        The bottom line is, when you take population into account, there isn’t a meaningful correlation between gun ownership and mass shootings.

        As a final note, this doesn’t include mass killings by other means such as the 2004 commuter train bombings in Spain which killed 191.

      • Baz, you started your rant with:

        “You had 13,286 people killed by guns in 2015.
        You have as many killed by guns, as by car accidents.”

        I stopped there because it is obvious your are either so ignorant that you have no idea what you are talking about, or you are a liar.

      • Baz, why don’t you use Switzerland as an example, every male between the age of 18 and 55 has a government issued firearm in the house. Tell us about their homocide rate. In the U.S.A. 47% of the murders are committed by 15% of the population. Guess which racial profile they fit. Give you a clue, Obama won’t being targeting that group.

      • @ Baz

        Gang-bangers killing gang-bangers. What’s not to like? Give ‘um bigger guns and more ammo and a ‘safe space’ to kill each other. You can stand in a gun free zone and watch. I’ll be packing heat but don’t worry, I’ll not display it should it be necessary for your behalf as it would offend you.

      • Well, I’m afraid that I sat here and read that with a smile on my face. I was hoping for cogent replies, but what I got was, in the large part and with an odd exception, puerile, knuckle-dragging, and that old favourite, defensive diversion:
        “Your father’s an idiot.”
        “My father! What about your father?”

        You have a problem that will persist as long as you ignore it – as you do above. You have to address problems, hit them face on. If you don’t, then they are not beaten. I despair the way the US is going. And you are all walking into it, blind – as you demonstrate above. Well, that’s for you. We here (in Britain) have our own set of problems ready to go pop. But as I said, that’s a different discussion, and I was writing about the US. I don’t want to see it go the way that South Africa has, but you should talk to South Africans to see just how you may end up!

        I wish you all well.

      • @ Baz

        Not sure where you got the “your father’s an idiot” from. I didn’t see it except in your comment. Link please as I may have missed it.

        Sir, I don’t care about South Africa of the UK for that matter. I don’t even respect your opinion in this matter but support your right to express it. The UK disarmed their populace a couple of decades ago. That’s their business. If they need help and time allows you can call the bobbies. Good luck with that.

        You write: “…You have to address problems, hit them face on. If you don’t, then they are not beaten. …” Well sir, you can bet your ass that I will address the problem “face on” if necessary.

        Granted the US has some problems but it is not with gun ownership. Thugs and gangs are a primary issue. If I find myself in a critical situation and no time to cry for help I will diffuse or eliminate the threat/situation as necessary and rely on the police to file the report or other measures as necessary. But you can rest assured (I doubt that you will) that I refuse to be a victim. I would bet that were you to become a victim we may see you on the TV crying that someone needs to do something for you because you were robbed and beaten and no one was there to help.

        Anyway, in closing I’ll toss in what you might consider to be in a mild ad hominem attack just for you : “You must be a liberal.” You may think of that as a badge of honor but then it may not meet your narrative. A liberal’s narrative must always be one of being a victim in some vague sense if the imagination.

      • @ Baz

        While you sit in your perch in the UK and state that the US could end up like South Africa while you try to dictate policy in the US I respectfully ask you to tell us about South Africa that we in the US should be afraid of. Please keep on the topic of your previous comment (Baz
        February 9, 2016 at 12:42 pm) and the related follow-up comments in this sub-thread that compelled you to comment.

      • Baz,
        I agree with you but only under certain conditions. You see, I would support gun control, but only if it was more ambitious. First, we should start with the military: Disarm them. Next, the Secret Service: Disarm them. No guns for either of those services. But, I’m not finished. Let’s also ban guns for [and that includes Father Pfleger’s and Mayor Bloomberg’s (look those names up)] bodyguards. And finally, no guns for the police.

        Now, I know what you’re thinking: Doesn’t the military need guns to defend us? Well, we’ll just ban them for all militaries throughout the world. Then no armed forces would have need for them. I think we can all agree that the world would be a better place if no army, navy, or air force anywhere in the world possessed weapons with which to kill people. The same thinking that instructs the above would also apply to the police. Just, simply get rid of all guns, everywhere, and the police won’t need them either, will they? And, think of it; there’ll be no disputed shootings by police, no lawsuits, no controversy.

        Ok, I’ll defer to reality and concede that maybe the police should keep their guns since, after all, there’s dangerous people out there. But, can’t Diane Feinstein give up her concealed carry permit, and both her and Barack Obama give up their armed bodyguards, and rely on the police like the rest of us are supposed to? Are their lives worth more than ours? Are they in more danger than a woman trying to escape an abusive boyfriend or an elderly person living in a high crime area?

        Unless someone’s willing to take gun control to its ultimate logical conclusion then don’t be telling certain people that they don’t have a right to defend themselves. Ok?

      • Baz, I love the way you ignore the many cogent responses to your post and dismiss all of the factual information given to you.
        Your inability to deal with the facts presented to you and to just declare that we are ignoring the problem says more about you, and none of it good.

      • @ Tom Judd

        You make very good points. Baz may not grasp the idea. He lives in the UK where there is apparantly no issue with criminal elements. The UK is like a raw egg. Perhaps some shell defense on the outside border but soft inside. What will he be saying when the ISIS exploits this extreme weakness and there is little resistance within? It may well be “Brits, get on your knees and pray to Allah”. Baz can lead the prayer group 5 times a day.

        Now let that same scenario play out in rural USA and there will be no need for the police. The locals will handle the job. The US has its strength within our borders. It’s the external borders that lack strength. Kind of like a hard boiled egg with no shell using the above analogy.

      • What’s amusing (and it’s evident that it passed you by, eyesonu) is that ‘defensive diversion’. Let me give you an enlarged example to the one I have already provided. When someone attacks you, verbally, it’s a human trait to use defensive diversion. What one does, is to try and deflect the attack by bouncing it back. So someone says, “Your father’s an idiot”. Rather than dealing with the statement head on and either refuting the statement or agreeing with it, people tend to try and bounce it back. So you say, “My father? What about your father?”. So you successfully fail to deal with the attack (because you are unable) and divert their attention to your counter attack. I will say to my wife, “You’ve left your shoes and handbag on the hall floor again”. To which she will say to me, “My stuff? What about your stuff on the bedroom floor?” Do you see now?

        When I attacked gun problems in the US, I got a lot of other stuff which wasn’t relevant to the argument and didn’t deal with my point (that you have a gun problem). Saying, “The US? What about England’s problems?” (or whatever) doesn’t deal with the issue, it tries to bounce it back.

        What I despair about, is the amazing blindness shown by people of the US. It’s tempting to let gangs get on with it and kill each other. What sort of society will that result in? You WILL end up like South Africa if you don’t deal with your gun problem. And with all due respect, you should already know about South Africa without me educating you. If not, read up, it isn’t my job. Suffice to say, it’s a hell of a place, and is going one way.

        By the way, I’m not a Liberal. I can’t stand Liberalism. I’m actually just to the right in British politics.

        MarkW. I did acknowledge there was the odd exception, but you went and missed what I said. Your eyesight problem, not mine.

      • Baz commented: “…When I attacked gun problems in the US, I got a lot of other stuff…”

        You are a victim of the same MSM that supports AGW. It’s propaganda designed to shape public sentiment against guns so they can remove them. Several pointed out that gangs, suicide, and might I add mental health are at the root of the problem. Guns are outlawed in Mexico and Central America yet they are ubiquitous and their death rates by guns are off the chart due to gang violence. Do you see headlines in those countries decrying gun violence or gang violence? Why the sanctimonious “America can’t control guns” from countries that have had the right to bear arms taken from them? We live with it because it’s a right we chose to retain when we founded our country.

      • @ Baz February 12, 2016 at 12:43 am

        I have seldom read such a rambling bunch of BS as you have presented in your comment. Perhaps I should ask “Is your father’s son an idiot”?

        Please tell us about your version of South Africa’s problems that the US will experience. I must admit that I need to be informed and educated on this most pressing issue that you understand so clearly.

    • No!

      Fast cars, FAST WOMEN and guns! :)

      BTW I, a female, used to hot rod old cars and trucks for fun but now I am a geezer so I just hobnob with guys doing this for run. I bet they will be very pissed when they read this story today, I am passing it on to them all.

      • Leonard, (as Willis would like to say) please stick to what I said. I didn’t say anything about the US invading other countries, and neither was I talking about my own country (that’s an entirely different debate – and termed ‘defensive diversion’). I said about the US international meddling. If you read some of the intelligence agency stuff that is available on the net, you might see the sort of things the US gets up to. We have no idea what’s going on inside Langley, their policies toward the Ukraine, etc. And don’t get me started on the Middle East. And yes, we, the Brits, have done our own fair share of meddling, and found to our cost that it was a mistake. The US hasn’t yet learned from our mistakes, just as the EU hasn’t learned about the Soviet empire. But as I said, a different debate, sir.

    • The correct word (to NOT do) is … INFRINGE ….

      And notice that ” infringe ” duzz NOT mean the same as ” abridge “.

      ” Abridge ” means to take ” War and Peace ” and turn it into the Classic Comic.

      ” Infringe ” means to (even) mess around in the neighborhood (of).

      # 1 says ” Don’t abridge ” (in essence); # 2 says ” Don’t infringe ” (specifically).

      So get offa our turf.

      g

      Making it difficult to use what you have a perfect right to have, would constitute infringement.

      Googlebuggy is just the first step to ” infringe ” on one’s freedom of mobility.

      Experimental evidence proves that self driving cars only work if there is no ” self ” driving ANY car.

      A self driving car, was the first thing fired at the moon with humans inside. Luckily for them, one of those selfs was a better driver than the self driving car.

    • Maybe we should remind the present administration that our undocumented, irregularly immigrated guests from Cuba, Mexico and Central America Dearly love custom cars as much if not more than us WASPs.

  3. If we have to limit CO2, what is the answer? None seem very good. Everyone emits CO2 and the priorities and value vary tremendously from person to person. Do you stop hobby race cars, but allow global tourism? How about fireworks? Many activities as subgroups might not aggregate to the same magnitude as electricity. But I feel most for the elderly on pensions suffering through increased costs there. It seems wrong that they are forced to get their already meager “footprint” lower while “cigarette” boat owners escape similar burdens.

  4. How long before millions of vintage “pre-smog” vehicles lose exempt status WRT emissions? EPA is running headlong into a collision with America’s gearhead and collector car culture.

  5. If they were really serious they would ban the massive yachts, private jets and the like that are so favored by the Rolls Royce environmentalists like Al Gore, Leo DeCaprio, David Suzuki, James Cameron etc, etc.

    • Ridiculous since these machines represent even less of the total emission. Ban the poor’s vehicles first.

      • Obama did just that with ‘Cash for Clunkers’. That sharply curtailed the number of reliable lower cost (< $5ooo) cars available. Remember that only those who could afford a new car could participate and they were in most cases happy with the one that was traded in and destroyed. There were few that could have been honestly described as a clunker. Anyone voting for that bill should be in prison. It was as bad as Obamacare.

    • They (by which I mean Congress and the government) already tried that.

      They established a rich tax on yachts and private planes, in the typical Democratic reasoning that all it would impact was the rich. What actually happened was the “rich” decided there were other things they could spend their money on and this pretty much gutted the private aircraft companies and boat builders. Guess who suffers when that happens? That middle class politicians are supposedly so fond of.

  6. Everything they do now is an overreach of power. They fulfilled their purpose between 1975-1992, and now they are simply inventing reasons for their existence. Bureaucrats can’t help it, there must always be a problem that needs regulated or a social issue that needs a law. We’ve gone from a single document comprising the law of this country to an entire library, and now those libraries are becoming too small.

    • I was watching the film “The Way We Were” the other day, filmed in Hollywood at the peak of the smog crisis in LA, when many days you literally couldn’t see a city block. The film’s street scenes are real howlers. EPA did need to do something about urban air quality, and they did. But it will cost 100 times more to improve air quality an additional 1% than it took to gain the original 90%. “Diminishing returns” is not in EPA’s glossary.

  7. This type of policy, if successfully enacted, will eventually be the downfall for the whole silly AGW movement. Sooner or later, there will be a backlash and the polling booth will have the final say. Just seems to be taking a long time!

  8. Even if you’re an enviro keener, none of this stuff makes any sense. Obama stopped the Keystone pipeline when the CO2 footprint of Canada as a whole is less that 2% of the world’s. Meanwhile, the oil continues to flow south via railcars with an even bigger footprint and a greater safety risk. Brilliant!

  9. This is like hiring an inventory clerk at $32K per year to control an office supply inventory with an annual spend of $10K. Dumb, but not atypical for EPA.

  10. Digging their own grave at the behest of the environmentalists who are s-l-o-w-l-y becoming recognized for their animosity towards the human race. How long will it take for people to realize the true goals of the environmentalist movement? Their ‘burn down the village to save it’ philosophy is coming home to roost.

    • Digging their own grave…

      markl

      The built-in obsolescence of the power-mad: they always take it just one step too far.

      “Life Is a Highway” — “Cars” movie scenes

      (youtube)

      LOL! The average hot rod enthusiast is not known for docile cooperation with legal technicalities. “Safe for conditions” is their credo. Can’t make/sell/buy mod parts in the U.S.? Go to Mexico… or wherever. Or…… make them in the backwoods of Tennessee….. or any other of the 50 United States…. . Those good ol’ gearhead/motorhead boys (and some gals) will get ‘er done. Don’t let their who-cares attire and down home accents fool you — you will find among them some of the world’s finest engineers.

      And from the popularity of the movie “Cars” you can take heart! Love of racing IS. And as long as there are children-at-heart, it always will be.

      ALL OVER THE WORLD!

      *****************************************
      Yo, EPA! Go ahead, pass that anti-car industry reg….. make — my — day.

      VaaaarrrrRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOMMMMMM!!!! (that’s the sound of a Republican accelerating toward the White House in January, 2017)

      #(:))

      (Janice, a 10-year-old in a very good disguise)

      • For some reason I expected you to make a few comments on this particular thread. BTW: Do you notice a certain kind of similarity between the way these two appear; NASCAR and NRA?

        My softspot, however, is road racing up at Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin – Road America. Still dreamin’ ’bout a drag race though. Best wishes Janice.

        Tom

  11. Of all the many outrages (unanswered in the main) EPA has inflicted on Americans, this will finally be their Waterloo. The power of NASCAR will not be denied.

  12. This has nothing to do with solving problems, real or non-existent. It is solely concerned with pure, naked power.

    • They hate NASCAR. And I was a custom car racer once upon a time long, long ago and hang out today with guys I taught when they were in high school. Boy, will they all be pissed off tomorrow.

    • Trump? Would that be the guy who used to brag about how he got rich by buying favors from politicians?
      Would that be the guy who got the local govt to condemn and buy acres of homes so that he could acquire the land for cheap in order to build his casino?

  13. There’s a libertarian mole in the EPA. Can’t think of a policy more likely to get the Eco fascist’s butt kicked in the coming election. If they think gun nuts are tough politically, wait until they cross the car nuts.

      • You miss the point of the regulation entirely This is to eliminate lowly hobbyists from converting production cars for more casual racing. NASCAR vehicles are pure ground-up purpose-built racers, and not made from off-the-shelf spare parts available at Summit Racing. You’re stuck in the ’60s.

      • Yes. What else do you think “Stock Car ” means ?

        Does a formula one race car look anything like a street car? does a NHRA dragster look anything like a stock street car.

        Yes NASCAR races street cars, like Ford Tauruses and the like (when Ford Tauruses were a popular street stock car.

        g

      • George, the only thing stock about those cars is the shape.
        The origin of NASCAR is converted stock cars, but they stopped doing that 40 years ago.

      • Brian356, the POINT of any regulation is immaterial, the EFFECT of the regulation and what purpose it can be used for, is.

      • brian356,

        You’ve never heard of club racing? They’re race cars and generally not used on the street but they are most definitely modified from street cars. Moreover, many of the Ferraris and Porsches that show up at LeMans, Daytona, or Sebring are modifications of the street versions. And, have you not heard of homologation rules? Those rules gave us the BMW M1, the Alfa Romeo Tipo 33 Stradale, just to name only two.

  14. The EPA’s lamentable role in the Colorado mine spill and the subsequent lead poisoning of the citizens of Flint seems to have escaped America’s attention entirely. The Agency should be taken to task over these two issues and not be allowed to hide behind this latest smokescreen.

    • In regards to the Flint situation, I’ve read through about half of the emails and the sad part is the MDEQ, and the EPA seemed more concerned with the statistical analysis of the lead levels as a function of season, and whether there were any statistically significant epidemiology problems and everybody had a “business as usual” attitude about it; which leads me to suspect that the problem effects many more cities than Flint. I fear that Flint was just a “so bad they couldn’t pretend it was happening” event rather than a unique event.
      If your living in an area where the water distribution system is less than new, you might want to get your water independently tested for heavy metals and do it at least once in the summer when the more water is more likely to leach lead or copper into the water.

  15. The EPA with Obama lunch meeting to offset the report that coal use was under estimated. This is what they came up with.

  16. The EPA should start by looking at the carbon footprint of their leader in the White House flying around Willy Nelly in airforce 1 .
    Hypocrites!!

  17. “Our civilization is flinging itself to pieces. Stand back from the centrifuge.”
    ― Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

  18. “This is what happens when bureaucracy runs out of things to do, they up the ante,…”

    This is what happens when you create a very large bureaucracy. They cast about for things to do. This is what happens when you create a very large government – ‘industrial’ (climate science) complex. They go into every nook beyond the ridiculous to try to find relevance. An oversupply of anything is immensely costly and the quality of the product declines to below marginal utility level. Companies doing this soon go bankrupt or if they insist on putting out a product that people don’t want.

    I had always thought (I had heard) that car racing contributed enormously to auto technology, engine efficiency and safety. Why didn’t the racing body use this argument instead of the fact that it has a small environmental impact. There must be numerous references to this. Don’t try to reason with today’s ‘collective’ europeanized governments on the reasonable argument that something is small impact on the environment (don’t forget that Brussels ruled you couldn’t call asparagus raised differently than prescribed in the regulations couldn’t be call asparagus – save us all from this control to the minutiae level. Show them how it has improved the environment.

    Each of these incursions into freedom gets easier and easier to make as they build up precedents – even for an opposition that doesn’t appreciate the end game of such a trend (think Jan Kozak who used parliamentary democracy’s rules to convert it to communism

    http://www.robertwelchuniversity.org/Not%20a%20Shot.pdf.

    I know sceptics are most often cast as right wing nuts and ‘progressives’ as practicing sensible politics for the good of all. Somehow we have to introduce the greater concern about loss of freedom of the individual in society. I wish Democrat voters would recognize that the party they vote for is not the Democrat party they inherited from their parents (or less frequently found it by themselves).

    They need to be kicked out and put in the penalty box for over a decade at least until new blood can re-establish its old roots. In Canada, which is left of centre for sure, they did just this very thing. The Liberal (approximately Demcrat) party had become so corrupt and filled with a sense of entitlement that they even had a mafia bagman in Montreal – probably making offers people ‘couldn’t refuse’. They gave big contracts to their friends, on many of which no work was done for the money!! What was known as the Gomery Inquiry was even ordered by the Liberal Party leader Paul Martin, who knew the Liberals would be toast for a fair amount of time after it was over and old influential Liberals even said they needed a turn in the “penalty box” (hey, hockey is big stuff here, I figure you know). I was disappointed that they returned as soon as they did with such a young man as their leader. I’m hopeful he may get some guidance from some of the old guard.

    The other piece of the puzzle is to hope, for this enterprise of renewing freedom, the Republicans would weed out the 19th Century suspender snapping, hang ’em high, fringe that gives the whole party its image in the eyes of prospective left-leaning voters that might be considering calling a penalty. Harper did this in Canada, getting rid of old “Reform Party” antediluvians. Gays are here to stay; women are going to remain in control of their bodies, etc. no matter what you would like. It’s the core issues that matter: small government, free enterprise (suitably regulated from predatory competition practices and the like), and freedom to do as long as you don’t do it at the expense of your neighbour) and, for goodness sake, protecting your sovereignty from interference by UN and other anti-American bodies and movements.

    • Yes. It always strikes me as odd that those who want small government and free enterprise (classical liberals, or more popularly these days, libertarians) teamed up with conservatives, who like to use government to control behaviour.

      • Modern liberals are even more anxious to use govt to control the behavior of individuals than are conservatives.

      • The right wing is VERY intrusive, demanding to control women, for example, in very personal ways that are hideous and infuriating.

      • I didn’t say that conservatives aren’t intrusive, just refuted your claim that they are uniquely intrusive.
        PS: I don’t believe that trying to save babies qualifies as intrusive.

      • EMS,

        Could you please expand on what you find hideous and intrusive? Is it either of those things to suggest that a viable fetus should not be murdered, that a full-term baby should not have its brains sucked out or that a naturally delivered baby should not be a victim of infanticide?

        Most pregnant women and girls exercise their right to chose as soon as they find out they’re pregnant, and schedule abortions as soon as they can. What then can be hideous and intrusive about protecting viable, third trimester babies? Abortion is more dangerous for the mom than natural childbirth by that stage.

        IMO what is hideous and a denial of fundamental human rights is killing unborn babies. Maybe you have some other hideous intrusions in mind.

  19. “This is what happens when bureaucracy runs out of things to do, they up the ante, completely unaware of how ridiculous they look or how pointless the idea is.”

    I disagree. Though the effect is similar, the EPA has been captured by wild-eyed activists, rather than merely occupied by bored bureaucrats. This makes it worse than we thought, since their zeal to save the world makes them obdurate and difficult to change. It will require a steely will to evict or neuter them.

    • They are MOAISTS. I dealt with these guys at Berkeley in 1969. They are fanatical, cruel and want to deprive us of life and liberty and have us wear Mao suits and wave the little red book. They are monsters and highly dangerous people.

      • Yes. Mixed in with these are the earnest and well-intentioned, who serve to calm public apprehension whenever the fanatics overstep the mark. They remain credible because they have no agenda beyond saving the environment: either they’re misled, fail to closely examine the evidence for dangerous anthropogenic global warming or fail properly to consider the consequences of their climate policy. Thus the light of truth shines honestly in their eyes and reassures further gullible minds. But they may be amenable to scientific reasoning; the fanatics are beyond it.

  20. Notice how they are not targeting smoker cars of low income drivers or city buses or low riders or drug dealer limos. This is a safe surgical strike between and around the demographic subgroups.

    • “Notice how they are not targeting smoker cars of low income drivers …”

      Not yet. There are millions of older “pre-smog” vehicles exempt from emissions standards. Those are the low-hanging fruit. Goodbye collector and hotrod car cultures as we know it. Just you wait.

      • ’55 with original 265 cubes engine, or was it bumped to something like a 283 w/ Power Pack heads?

      • Alan Robertson commented: “….’55 with original 265 cubes engine, or was it bumped to something like a 283 w/ Power Pack heads?..”

        Part of my youth was spent on a ’55 Chevy (Bel Aire, of course!), 4″ bore on a 283 block for 301 CI, dual quad carburetors, heads reworked by Jocko, 1/2″ lift Howard flat tappet cam, Schaefer aluminum clutch and flywheel assembly, 456 rear end with welded up spider gears, slicks. During the “gas wars” in SoCal you could buy a gallon for 10 cents! There are too many Boomer gear heads for the EPA to deal with.

  21. The next president needs to downsize the EPA, starting at the top, and rescind masses of regs.

    Also, fire anyone working for the IRS who doesn’t pay their taxes.

  22. To me this has the feel of an undercover black op. Someone or ones in the EPA don’t want another democrat government. They realise how suicidally unpopular it will be to interfere with the widespread hobby of souping up cars. Their servile drone colleagues do not, and will sleepwalk to extinction. Here’s hoping, anyhow.

    • Dear Michael Roberts,

      I don’t know that car, but, I have great sympathy for someone trying his best to post a video and failing. I’ve been there. Here ya go!

      “Red Barchetta” — Rush (the rock group, not Limbaugh, lol)

      (youtube)

      Your sister video enthusiast,

      Janice

      • That is a big block Chrysler, I can’t see the front deck casting to tell if it’s a 335hp 383, or a 375hp 440.
        I have a lot of fond memories of a 3 2bbl 440 :)

      • Hi, Pop! :)

        Yes, indeed. No “air car” law enforcement vehicles, yet… . LOL, if they have to use electric cars, we muscle car enthusiasts will be juuuust fine. Oh. That’s right. Geddy Lee, et. al. didn’t have armed drones in their minds when they performed that tune… .

        NOT — GOING — TO — WORRY — ABOUT — IT.

        What, me worry? Heh.

        And, thanks, Poppy Piasa, for saying something about the lyrics. I only posted that video to help out Mr. Roberts (I wasn’t a big Rush fan). Went and looked up the lyrics, thanks to you.

        Keep the rubber side down! :)

        Janice

  23. Ever heard of socialism?
    It’s a more palateable term of reference they prefer than communism.
    As in Australia you need only look at the hierarchy of who is at the head of the snake that sees to impose it’s will on the people.
    That the snake has like minded people at the head of public institutions is no suprise.
    They were there long before your “king” snake in Obama assumed the reigns of power.
    They are a minority so it’s not their actual numbers you should fear, it’s what this minority controls.
    Outside your internal revenue service, the EPA would have to represent your governments largest behemoth that imposes it’s will on the American people.
    We have a publicly funded broadcaster that does similar things with government manipulation if the government of the day refuses to fall in behind.
    These government “controlled” and funded institutions are supposed to be politicaly neutral. Is that the case with “your” EPA?
    The scary thing is an election won by a different persuasion than what you have now would have a monumental task of bringing the EPA to heel.
    Like it or not , Trump and Cruz are your best shot at reforming or abolishing them.
    The other two fighting it out will only gaurante more of the same.
    The Democratic party, as you point out, is not the democratic party of their parents.
    We in Australia have the equivalent in the labor party that is not the labor party of the seventy, eighties or nineties.

      • I’ll take that criticism. I posted from my workplace computer (during break) and was unaware of the security levels which alter links (moderators know where I post from during the work day hours). Mea culpa, I will strive for a better result in the future. Praise the Lord (and pass the ammunition) my local friend-in-WUWT Janice saved the day and posted what I was unable to.

  24. Wait until they ban sports because athletes breathe out more CO2 than other people. Their benchmark will be a frail 90 year old on life support. So we will all have to pay a CAGW CO2 tax.

    • Certainly they will ban squirting Champagne over each other when a championship is won. I kind of wish they wouldn’t put such a stress on the supply of it and the resultant price. If I had a sports team that won, I would give them soda water to drench each other and a bottle each of bubbly to drink!!!

  25. The next thing to ban would be rockets. They emits way too much pollution of any kind. And if the fuel iself is harmless, the poduction of it is not.

      • I bet that if you tested GM or Ford they would also Fail .

        NE Ohio has smog testing, your typical newish gas engine is way cleaner then the requirements.
        Which makes this double sucky, as you could do anything you wanted as long as you had cat’s and it passed the sniffer.

  26. “Let them race Teslas”

    Not so good if you want to actually turn. While they might turn well, weight is the enemy.
    I was hoping Carbon Fiber or Carbon Nanotube fiber would drop car weight under the low 2,000’s lbs, prior to the stupidity.

      • It’s not just drag cars would be affected by the proposal – real race cars, where cornering and braking are required, would also be banned.

        Races would need to be dramatically shorter for Teslas and their ilk. Or else they would need to develop battery swaps for real (not staged demos, rigged for a media release)

  27. I’m wondering how the EPA would enforce such a rule.
    If I buy a car and convert it into a all out race car, or a modified car that occasionally goes to the track, how are they even going to know?
    An all out race car will never be registered for road use, so how do they follow it.
    A modified car for mostly street use, usually has to pass the local government emissions testing anyways, before it can be registered / licensed.

    • Part of the regulation included making it illegal to sell the parts needed to modify your car in that manner.

      • Most serious hot rodders make their own parts. They do not buy them.

        This is a silly comment. F1 makes their own parts, not many “Hot Rodders” have their own CAM grinders, or head casting facility, let alone the hundreds of other parts beyond the typical shop’s ability to manufacturer.

        And remember you same “Most”

      • micro6500
        I used to work in an automotive machine shop. We did a lot of custom work for racers who could not get high performance parts for their cars. Mostly engine and transmission parts. But suspension, steering and brakes also. For drag racing, slalom/ autocross, road racing and hill climb. Many of the racers fabricated a lot of their own parts, particularly intake and exhaust systems for turbo charged engines. Very time consuming to get something that works inside of existing body work, and produces huge horsepower gains.
        Anyway… my point is, if somebody wants to modify their existing car, and make lots of horsepower, and improve the handling, it can be done. Even if there is no manufacturer of aftermarket parts.

  28. Since police cars will soon have a top allowed speed of 40 mph, they will have to rely on cameras to send the bill to the offender or seize the tax refund alongside the ACA enforcement action. Well since police are also targeted in the new progressive hit list, it will be up to the EPA patrol persons, a network of neighborhood informants, and cameras.

  29. It will save lives though. Stupid americans like Paul Walker risking lives allowing a modded Carrera GT which is unstable out of the factory to be driven so recklessly it caused both his and his pal’s deaths.

    I’d ban stupid undrivable crud like Corvettes as well as limiting speeds to 100mph.

    Save it for the race track… real or one in your xbox.

    • 1) Paul Walker was not driving, he was the passenger.
      2) The Porsche Carrera GT involved was factory stock, not modified.

    • “Carrera GT which is unstable out of the factory” … What on earth are you talking about? Please explain yourself and cite references. I would agree that it was driven irresponsibly … but, once again, people kill people, guns don’t kill people. As to a Corvette being “undrivable?” Again, where is this coming from? I’m no Vette fan, having 2 Porsches in the garage. but it is hardly “undrivable.” You just don’t like cars. And no, I don’t have an xbox.

      • I love cars unfortunately there are far too many people who take risks in residential areas. Although Walker wasn’t driving, he allowed his pal to do so. Recklessly.
        Turning at high revs is for the race track. Controlling a slide in a Carrera GT is difficult, so is cornering aggressively.

        In the UK just about everybody who tunes, pimps, whatever their car is a boy/girl racer. These youth emulate great fun looking stunts in fast and furious, race where there’s no cctv and reckon if they are flat through a blind corner there’s no chance of hitting a man and his dog.

        Speed kills. It’s immature and selfish. I’m all for autobahns and race track days and marvels in engineering like the Veyron… as long as it won’t hurt anyone else, especially children and their pets. My favourite sport is motorsport and I am fanatical about F1.

        The german solution of limiting to 155 won’t work. It’s acceleration and torque that’s the problem. If the world wasn’t so into spying on citizens I’d suggest a gps-activated limiting device based on location. Taking away driving licence for even the smallest infraction is another.

        Can’t behave yourself? Take the bus.

    • I love how the socialists amongst us believe that it is their job in life to prevent others from doing things the socialists disapprove of.

  30. If you thought Obama and the EPA were bad, just wait when Sanders or Clinton gets the job. You’ll have seen nothing.

  31. This issue is more than just your average bureaucracy imposing strangulation regulations on a populace.
    It is a selective effort to target, beginning with a small minority, then extending it’s tentacles to grab more small groups in sequence. It’s not even a matter of Science with these people. It’s a matter of chipping away, eroding, and undermining.
    Divided societies are easy prey, and that’s the key to shutting off the spigot from the Poison Tank.
    So keep writing, keep up the pressure on the EPA. Never let them sneak anything while nobody’s looking.

  32. “The sheer ridiculousness of this move to can be measured by how little of an impact it will have on the environment, given how little [that there is NO proven impact on “the environment” of any significance of human CO2 emissions at all.]

    CO2 EMISSIONS UP AND ACCELERATING. WARMING STOPPED**.

    **(a short-term, tiny, spike here and there do not obliterate the loooong plateau in surface temp. trend since ~1998; further, models driven by CO2 failed utterly to project that plateau).

  33. Proposing this useless, anti-American reg in an election year showns how detached from reality EPA has become. Unconstitutional CPP, Gold King mine cleanup catastrophe happening as a local geologist predicted, failure in Flint water supply (lead), the stupid over reach rural waterway reg proposal, now this. They are asking to be chopped. Bureaucrats run amok.

    • A curiosity is: The fuel running those old cars in Cuba is it lead free or high octane? The few times I’ve seen them in the background of reports I’ve never noticed the tell tale knocking though I guess that could be filtered out.

  34. Well then they should go to Hollywood and ban all the pyrotechnics used on movie sets and other productions. No carbon offsets either. Then they can go to Hell and ask the Devil himself to shut er down.

  35. Well a cigarette boat is just mulch to be, when up against a gas turbine hydrofoil destroyer. I’ve seen one of those in full song going, out of Key West Harbor. They do not look pretty when viewed from in front of the bow.

    G

  36. There is nothing the EPA can’t regulate and there is no law the DOJ can’t manipulate. The country is now controlled by three branches – EPA,DOJ and Supreme Court.

  37. Memo to EPA : Take a look at this (from your own website) and tell me how ridiculous you are.

    Source: Boden, T.A., Marland, G., and Andres, R.J. (2015). National CO2 Emissions from Fossil-Fuel Burning, Cement Manufacture, and Gas Flaring: 1751-2011, Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, U.S. Department of Energy, doi 10.3334/CDIAC/00001_V2015

  38. With the Olympics coming up this summer, what’s stopping the EPA from banning all sports? Exercise causes humans to emit more CO2 than a sedentary lifestyle, and high performance athletes emit more CO2 than any other in brief, intense bursts. They may try to ban the Olympics altogether, or at the very least all athletic training, citing the threat it poses to the environment.

  39. Eventually there will be enough EPA and California EPA employees to enforce a one-child policy too.

  40. When you use your own money to buy votes, they call it bribery.
    When you use other people’s money to buy votes, they call it socialism.

  41. The guys down at Mike Duffy Race Cars in Moore, OK are not going to be happy about this. Mike and crew build racing Mustangs. Mike has made some number of innovations over the years which are now standard racing practice. There are many such race shops across the nation.
    Then there are the venues- hundreds of drag strips, oval tracks and road courses cover the nation.
    Billions of bucks are spent racing in the US each year.

    I’m just not believing this, yet. Can it be true? How could the US gov’t attempt something like this?

  42. Welcome to the EU guys. You now have an ever-expanding unstoppable bureaucracy which will soon be making laws on everything from how many pieces of toilet paper you are allowed to use per visit to what light bulbs you are obliged to buy. The cost of this will accelerate exponentially and taxes will of course have to rise to support it. In Europe it is beginning to look like the days of the ‘progressive’ left may be numbered although only as a result of them having plunged the entire continent into a waking nightmare. Good luck with stopping the American dream turning similarwise nightmarish.

  43. We could give these guys everything they wanted – ban every substance/practice on their list. The next day they would have a whole new list. That’s why it makes no sense to give them anything at all. Granting the EPA (i.e. government-empowered activists) regulatory power was idiocy – at best their role should be advisory.

  44. This is the best possible news I could have imagined. If the EPA loses the support of all the racing fans in the US, there may be hope for reform.

    w.

  45. Yesterday it was the creek in your backyard, today its amateur racing, tomorrow your grill, and next week your weed-eater. As far as the current administration is concerned, these are interests of only the bible-thumping, gun clinging, redneck OTHER, so they believe these restrictions will hardly make a dent in their voting base.

  46. Since I’m getting older, I’m worried that the EPA won’t allow me to die, because of all the greenhouse emissions from my decomposing bodily tissues.

    • Heh.

      Well, don’t worry, Little P., they like money — a LOT. They’ll gladly let you die so they can collect the taxes on your estate (hopefully, you have a living trust or the like to avoid all you can).

      • Be careful of trusts. The tax on earned income inside certain trusts goes to the highest rate at $11,900. Be sure to check with your financial advisor.

  47. excellent news. knowing the american love of racing and modifying big engined cars, this may well be the straw that breaks the camels backs.

    people need to realise government bodies like the epa are made up of people,usually the boring types scared of their own shadows. start speaking to them in person to show your displeasure . do not allow them to hide behind the veil of big government.

  48. As a non-US person, I thoyght that Congess could overrule the EPA. Have I got this wrong? Is the EPA unaccountable to Congress.

    If a Republican wins the election, because to an outsider this seems the least worse option, surely an early act would be to reign in the EPA?

    • Yes. Congress can abolish or seriously trim the EPA by more than one means: defunding and also repealing or revising the EPA’s enabling legislation, The Clean Air Act. Also, the POTUS can reign in the EPA.

    • Why just rein it in? The EPA is blatantly unconstitutional, and should just be closed down. Like the other unconstitutional 90% of the Federal government.

  49. Sounds like a great idea. But make it conditional…agree to banning hotted up cars if you also agree to ban private jets because …environment.

  50. I think the EPA’s missions statement includes, “Solving non-existent problems with expensive, damaging, and senseless solutions.

    Maybe Obama’s EPA can be a study for a graduate student in how large bureaucracies given too much power go stupid.

  51. Apparently the EPA thinks it needs to punch amateur car enthusiasts in the nose in order to make up for the EPA’s willful reckless negligence in the Colorado mine spill, and standing around with their thumbs up their arse while the citizens of Flint were being poisoned.

    Can these bureaucrats really find nothing useful to do.

    • José Tomás commented: “… I think “someone” could prepare a refutation…”

      No need to. Anything that states “livestock covers 45% of the earth’s total land” won’t be taken seriously.

  52. What they don’t realize is that to some people, building specialized vehicles for track use isnt just a hobby for some people. For some, its a career, its a job, its a living.

    • Good point, Mr. Zuniga. And when you add in all the parts manufacturing and selling jobs, that’s quite a few families who will be missing that paycheck.

    • It is no surprise that Facebook bans Christians, anti-gay mariage, and conservatives while supporting Islamic terrorists. He has be an Obananite since day 1.

  53. I just feel like, there’s no way you can tell me what do with a car that I bought. If I want to turn it into a 1000hp drag car, the EPA shouldn’t be able to tell me.

  54. Reminds me of when we had the petrol crisis here in the UK. They wanted to ban all sorts of car based events but shut up when it was found the two biggest non essential users of fuel were fishermen driving to the fishing lakes and dog walkers taking their dogs to the walking grounds. I suspect in the US you will find it is backpackers who are the biggest fuel users.

      • NASCAR also uses racing-quality gasoline.

        “Sunoco provides racing gasoline for NASCAR’s three national series – the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series, the NASCAR Nationwide Series and the NASCAR Camping World Truck Series – distributing gasoline to more than 500 racetracks in the United States.”

        (Source: https://www.sunoco.com/sunoco-racing/race-fuels/ )

        **********************************************

        Dear Mark W,

        I just read your series of comments this morning on this thread contradicting or nit-picking at a bunch of commenters and it upset me, so I wrote to correct you. I’m sorry if you’re having a bad week or something, but, why be such a criticizer, here? If it isn’t an essential point, why not just encourage and affirm — or say nothing?

        You are one of WUWT’s best commenters — and most loyal (since 2007, IIRC). And I consider you a hero for standing up for science truth to the point that you lost your job at a major U.S. laboratory (trumpeting that because you DESERVE recognition).

        With admiration and hopes that whatever has you down will be in the rear-view mirror soon!

        Janice

      • @ Janice,
        I don’t what fuel they are running thru their race engines, but when cornering the tires keep them on the track, the suspension tuners keep the tires gripping the track.
        It’s all a dance.
        Not to mention exhausting.

  55. In time The EPA will take away our heating stoves and the heating of our homes can be only be heated by electricity. There will be no burning of anything that makes smoke. Forest fires will be outlawed. Lighting strikes will be contained. No more farting by humans or animals allowed. No more saving rainwater. No more mud puddles allowed. It’s all coming and much, much, much more.

  56. At some point the American citizens will have had their fill and take the Rooster Cogburn approach.
    “Give em a fair trial and a nice hanging.”

  57. This is the government’s way of banning ANY modification to street cars. By banning race vehicles, then, there can be no tuners, headers, intakes, etc.. Their whiney base is crying about coal-rolling diesels that stomp the pedal when they pass their little Prius – and the gov’t is pandering to them, full tilt. Same way that they know they will NEVER ban guns in America … but they will attempt an end-round, by banning ammo, putting lead smelters out of business via the EPA, taxing the hell out of ammo, requiring electronics on guns, requiring classes for an LTC that nobody can afford ….

    This is how the 21st century government operates. By CROOK – no other way. They know they can’t win on merit, so they will just cheat. It’s the progressive way! God help us if Sanders or Clinton gets in …

  58. If they are so worried about pollution, they should go after these refinerys that are reporting billions in profits every year. There are millions of semi trucks out there that pollute, way more then a race car that is driven a few hours a month.

  59. Just interjecting some pragmatic reality into this discussion. As someone with a wallet full of motorcycle road racing licenses, you’ve finally hit a topic on which I have some practical real-world experience.

    The EPA knows full well that banning aftermarket performance modifications will have no effect whatsoever on emissions pollution or “green house gas” emissions. That’s not the target. The true target is noise pollution.

    We, as racers, particularly amateur hobbyist racers – have an obligation to the racing community to be less offensive on the road. The fitting of after market performance parts, and especially after market performance exhaust parts, generates much higher noise levels. I call it music, but most of the public does not. If the parts we’re talking about were truly restricted to track use only there’d be no problem. They aren’t. People (and most notably non-racing people) fit these systems to their road going vehicles.

    My street legal bikes wear the stock exhaust. My off road bikes have exhaust modifications to make them ~quieter~ as well as helping to stop spark or flame coming from the exhaust. If you want to take away the EPA’s clout on this issue, then your buddy’s ’69 Chevelle with the exhaust that can wake the dead being driven on public roads is part of the problem.

  60. The Union of Concerned Scientists (including the dog that are members, Kenji excluded!) want to replace conventional fuels with biofuels and alternatives. This article in Biofuels Digest summarizes their goals: http://www.biofuelsdigest.com/bdigest/2016/02/04/half-the-oil-ucs-looks-at-driving-down-petroleum-usage-on-the-us-west-coast/
    Unfortunately, just like wind and solar power, the damage to the environment from production of biofuels will be greater than any potential benefit these alternatives may provide. But the UCS will never see that dichotomy.

  61. @Baz

    In the 20th century alone governments killed 262 million unarmed citizens. It didn’t happen in the US. Why? 2nd amendment.

    ————
    I can understand the wish to own a gun (by the way, I live in England), but the US does have a ‘gun problem’, What are you going to do about it?

    You had 13,286 people killed by guns in 2015.
    You have as many killed by guns, as by car accidents.
    Almost 70% of homicide victims are by guns.
    27 people were shot (and killed) in the US on Xmas day alone.
    In 2015, there were 355 ‘mass shootings’.
    In the past 47 years, guns have killed more people than have died fighting wars…in all American history.
    Our (UK) death rate by guns is 0.2 (per 100,000). Yours is 10.2. Your rate is 25 times higher than other high-income countries.

    The US is seen as a violent country. Guns are not protecting you, they are killing you. I’m not smart enough to know the solution, but as someone has has long admired your country (despite its obvious flaws, and its international meddling), you have a problem. It’s an extremely serious problem. All of the above may already be known to you. But the problem is so severe, that it’s worth repeating over and over. You (the people of the US) seem to be concerned about terrorism, Russia threat, North Korean ambitions, even natural incidents, yet you are killing each other and not coming up with a solution to tackle it.

    • The issue of guns has been dealt with further up-thread, but please examine the statistics on violent crime and suicide internationally. Dead felons are a positive, not a negative, effect. Suicide rates (some two-thirds of the US death rate from guns) vary extensively internationally (check out Japan–high suicide rates and even more restrictive gun laws than Britain).
      Generally, this is a variant on the “guns as a public health issue” theme, which is transparently bogus. It is a civil rights issue, and all gun control advocates do not believe in self-defense.

  62. My usual response to situations like this is the laconic: ‘Why don’t you just tell them to F**K OFF?!’

  63. Do you think Trump admin would attempt this waste of taxpayer [time] and money? We have ourselves to blame for letting the house boy in the White House.

  64. I drive a 2004 Ford Ranger converted into a NASA Rallysport racer and I don’t intend to lose it. So come at me EPA d-bags.

  65. anthony watts is a lying POS. that is all.

    [The source was SEMA, Mr. Watts didn’t lie about anything, but used a trusted source and indicated in the story:

    https://www.sema.org/news/2016/02/08/epa-seeks-to-prohibit-conversion-of-vehicles-into-racecars

    Your comment might be true, based on the Snopes story you reference http://www.snopes.com/epa-seeks-ban-racecar-conversions/ … but it’s also very juvenile the way you go about it. The WUWT story was believed accurate at the time of publication, as did SEMA. -mod]

  66. I fear some rugged Texans with concealed carry permit won’t get us the ‘We, the people’ back.

    Against those priests of new religions ‘EPA-ism’, ‘Gore-ism’ and ‘Warmism’ they alone have little chance.
    I’m quite depressed.

Comments are closed.