Guest Opinion: Dr. Tim Ball

Courts will not listen to or judge scientific disputes. The basic argument is that it is “your paper” against “their paper” and they are not qualified to judge. This was the issue when I participated in appeals to the US Supreme Court over actions of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). It is also the case in the three lawsuits filed against me. They are charges of defamation and not about the science. The lawsuits are effectively Strategic Lawsuits against Public Participation (SLAPP) or a legal form of ad hominem attack. The question is, if I am so wrong about the science, as they claim, then why the lawsuits? The answer is because they cannot say I am not qualified, although they tried, and my ability to explain the complexities of climate science in a way the public understands threatens them.
The same problems confront any discussion in a formal hearing about climate science. Politicians are no better equipped or qualified to determine a science confrontation than the Courts. Scientists who participated in the December 8, 2015, Subcommittee on Space, Science, and Competitiveness, Senate Hearings were exposed to such a dilemma. They found themselves in a forum where they were not qualified to provide the answers to questions and thus effectively lost the case. There is a solution to the challenge, but neither they nor those who organized the hearings understood it.
My presentation at the first Heartland Climate Conference in New York explained the challenges faced by the scientists identified pejoratively as Deniers in the Senate Hearings. Many listened but the few that understood were people involved in communicating science to the public. They knew the pitfalls and the techniques necessary. I underscored my point by saying that Al Gore’s movie deserved an Oscar because it was a brilliant piece of propaganda produced in the fantasyland of Hollywood. They knew how to dramatize the science to catch and hold people’s attention. Chief Justice Burton of the UK Court ruled it was propaganda in the week before Gore received his Nobel Prize, but did not order that it not be shown in the schools, even though it had nine scientific errors. Instead, he ordered that students be apprized of the problems and then shown another documentary for balance. Unfortunately, this assumes that students and teachers can determine who is right and who is wrong.
My message in New York was if the Skeptics are to counteract Hollywood they must understand and apply the same basic techniques. They must abandon the idea that getting access to Washington and participating in public hearings before Congress will achieve the goal of educating the public to the scientific truth. They must show how “Their paper” was deliberately falsified in terms the public can understand. The recent US Senate hearings failed because the “Deniers” explained the scientific problems with the science of “Their Paper.” The politicians and public didn’t understand the difference. Even if they entertained the idea that “Their Paper” was wrong they were confronted with the question of whether the errors were from incompetence or corruption, something the presenters of “Your Paper” were not able or willing to answer.
The title of the Senate Hearing “Data or Dogma? Promoting Open Inquiry in the Debate over the Magnitude of Human Impact on Earth’s Climate” guaranteed it would fail with most people. It failed despite the imbalance in presenters with four, Dr. John Christie, Dr. Judith Curry, Dr. Will Happer, and Mark Steyn arguing for Data, and Dr. David Titley tepidly arguing for Dogma. The imbalance is not surprising. I know it is difficult to get someone to debate the Dogma and that if they are willing to debate it means they know very little about the science. The failure was not the fault of the presenters rather it was the entire problem of arguing science in a political forum. It is similar to why courts won’t consider scientific disputes.
Dr. Curry signaled the defeat when she correctly demanded the right to defend her scientific integrity against the charge of being called a denier. I was surprised because I thought Dr. Curry learned the lesson about how nasty people are when you challenge the prevailing wisdom. Early in the ongoing saga about global warming, Dr. Curry leaned toward the AGW theory and IPCC science thus making her acceptable to her academic colleagues. Then, to her everlasting credit, Dr. Curry, tried to pursue proper scientific method by inviting Steve McIntyre to her University, Georgia Tech, to make a presentation on his analysis of the ‘hockey stick’. McIntyre commented about the reaction.
Readers of this blog should realize that Judy Curry has been (undeservedly) criticized within the climate science community for inviting me to Georgia Tech. Given that the relatively dry nature of my formal interests and presentation (linear algebra, statistics, tree rings etc.) and that I’ve been invited to present by a panel of the National Academy of Sciences, it seems strange that such a presentation to scientists should provoke controversy, but it did.
You cannot imagine how nasty people get until you experience it by challenging their prevailing wisdom. Dr. Curry learned as I did that the surprising and most emotionally disturbing attacks came from colleagues.
Skeptics were pleased with the performance of the presenters in Washington because they know about the science and the issues. What they forget is that the majority don’t know. Skeptics must first step out of their bias and view events objectively. Then they must understand the subjective perspective of those who don’t understand the science, which includes most of the public, the media, and the politicians.
I respect the science and integrity of those who appeared to explain the Data, however, it was difficult to watch them struggle with the political posturing. This observation is not a criticism because they are scientists and want to avoid politics as much as possible. It is as basic as the fact that by simply appearing for the Data side automatically placed them in the Republican camp. Their presence and arguments made them political. They also lacked understanding of the nature of the debate and how it exposed the Dogma side.
I regret to say the Dogma side won because the Data side failed to deal with the real questions implied in their argument. From the Dogma and citizens perspective science is science, so why are there disagreements? They see the Data presenters as representatives of a political perspective. They think this because they ask why would scientists at the IPCC present misleading data, or worse, manipulate the data? What is their motive? The Data presenter’s political motive is clear to them: they are directly or indirectly under the political or financial influence of the energy sector.
For most people the proof that the Data presenters were political was their failure to answer the questions posed by Senator Markey and others about the 97% consensus and the warmest year on record. In fact, they could not answer them because they require a political answer explaining why they falsified the data and their motive? What answer would you give?
Mark Steyn gave an erudite, humorous, blunt, assessment of the politics involved. The problem is he began by saying he is not a climate scientist. Unfortunately, this only served to underscore the view that his fellow Data panelists were also political. There was no political spokesperson for the Dogma side: Senator Markey knew it wasn’t necessary.
The problem for Data presenters is they are climate scientists, specialists each in one small area of the complex, generalist discipline of climatology. It would require dozens of such specialists to cover the subject and be prepared to answer all the questions and still they could not answer the political or motive questions.
How To Manage A Debate
For approximately three years the Roy Green radio program in Canada offered unlimited airtime for anyone who would debate the issue of Global warming with me. Nobody took the offer! Elizabeth May, leader of the Green Party in Canada, told Roy she wouldn’t debate, but would get someone to do it. A month later she told him that she couldn’t get anyone. This is why I was surprised when Ms. May agreed to a debate with me on the Ian Jessop radio program a few months ago. I won’t speculate on her motive.
I know I won the debate because Ms. May resorted to a personal attack at the end with a veiled threat of “another lawsuit.” It didn’t surprise me, although I was amazed and pleased about how many people picked up on it.
The problem with a global warming debate between two scientists is that the public would not understand; they wouldn’t even know who won. In a debate between a scientist and anyone else the scientist inevitably loses because it becomes about emotions, especially the exploitation of fear. Besides, there is always the fall back precautionary principle that we should act regardless of the evidence.
These conditions formed the basis of my thinking in preparing for my debate with Ms. May. I knew as a lawyer she would try to use detail, to find an “error” to justify rejecting the entire case. I also knew that Ms. May believed, as co-author of Global Warming For Dummies, that she knew the subject.
Ms. May did as I expected and discussed the scientific data and detail. I knew this would go over the head of most listeners as the Data specialist’s information did in Washington. I acted with discipline by not even correcting the many errors Ms. May made. There was no point in getting bogged down in data and detail that few understood. Besides, few would even know who was correct even after the explanation. It is the state of confusion and uncertainty about who to believe that is common for most people.
I did the opposite and provided general comments and examples speaking to the Dogma. The first thing was to undermine the credibility of the IPCC. Most people think that the IPCC study climate and climate change in its entirety. Once they learn that the definition given to them by the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) directed them only to study human causes of change, they realize the limitations of their work. You then reinforce the point by explaining that you can’t possibly determine human causes unless you know and understand natural causes. You can reinforce thay point by saying that failed weather and climate forecasts prove we don’t understand the natural causes.
Next, you counter the myth that a majority of scientists (97%?) agree. It is too technical to present the arguments so well laid out in Lord Monckton’s analysis. It is easier and more effective to explain that very few scientists ever read the IPCC Reports. They accept, not unreasonably, the results of other scientists without question, just as the public do. The confession by Klaus-Eckhart Puls does not require data or scientific understanding. It expresses emotions people understand, including surprise, shock, and then anger that anyone can appreciate. The IPCC produced scientific documents that decimated all scientific rules, regulations and practices. You don’t need to know that when a scientist publically admits his failure in accepting, and passing on their corrupted science without question.
“Ten years ago I simply parroted what the IPCC told us. One day I started checking the facts and data—first I started with a sense of doubt but then I became outraged when I discovered that much of what the IPCC and the media were telling us was sheer nonsense and was not even supported by any scientific facts and measurements. To this day I still feel shame that as a scientist I made presentations of their science without first checking it.”
He wasn’t fooled; he just didn’t look.
I wrote much of my book The Deliberate Corruption of Climate Science years before it was published. I delayed publication because I knew from teaching Science to Arts students for 25 years, giving hundreds of public lectures, and participating in several documentaries that the public was not ready. In many ways, it was still released too early. I know many skeptics shy away from it because it dares to answer the question implied but avoided by the Senate Hearing; if the data is falsified who would do that and why? The question that automatically arises when you argue the Data or Skeptic side is MOTIVE. Not only did the Dogma win, but they also scored points by the inability of the Data specialists to answer questions that required providing the motive.
Elaine Dewar provided the motive after spending five days with Maurice Strong at the UN where he created the United Nations Environment Program (UNEP), the UNFCCC and the IPCC.
Strong was using the U.N. as a platform to sell a global environment crisis and the Global Governance Agenda.
Even if the Data specialists or Mark Steyn spoke to this motive Senator Markey would argue, falsely but effectively, that it was necessary to save the planet and dismiss them as conspiracy theorists. We are still a long way from the point when explaining the motive to the public would resonate. It requires exposition of the crimes first, and that requires explaining the science in ways the public understand. One factor that prevents those that are able is seeing what happened to Dr. Curry, myself, or several others. Just ask Dr. Richard Lindzen. The price paid for even seeking the truth in climate science is financially and emotionally high, and few are willing to pay the price. Besides, the Dogmatists and the public believe energy companies’ reward them well for their efforts.
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The quickest way to make someone angry is to be right.
That makes me REALLY angry to hear you say that!
I hear you.
For most people the proof that the Data presenters were political was their failure to answer the questions posed by Senator Markey and others about the 97% consensus and the warmest year on record. In fact, they could not answer them because they require a political answer explaining why they falsified the data and their motive? What answer would you give?
Not sure I can agree. I would say that they could not answer them because they were never asked. Senator Markey directed his questions to his own lapdog witness; the rules of the game were that witnesses could only respond to questions directed to them. Dr. Curry was able to speak because she had been personally attacked, and Mark Steyn was able to because…well, because he was Mark Steyn. Republican members of the committee should have thrown these issues to Dr. Happer and Dr. Christie for comment.
I have little doubt they could have given effective answers, both scientific and political. So long as they didn’t speculate on some senator’s canine ancestry.
Tim, you are quite correct the “Data” side was suborned into what was merely a political debate. I have watched the full debate, even here in Oz, and I listened to your debate on Canadian Radio. As a geoscientist I was appalled at the ignorance of the “Dogma” side of the debate. C.P. Snow recognised the problem years so many years ago in “The Two Cultures”. The gap between them is now even wider and what is worse, some on the science side have debased their principles in order to get along with the non-science side.
The lawyers and financiers with all the power in the western world just do not understand the scientific principles on which climate skeptics base their analyses.
I fail to see a solution to this schism in thought processes until Nature and the inexorable evolution of the Solar System provides one for us.
“I fail to see a solution to this schism in thought processes until Nature and the inexorable evolution of the Solar System provides one for us.”
So, we are to wait for Karma to run over the dogma?
Ever since Climategate, I have presented it as a case study in ethics to my software engineering class. (The use of fudge factors in artificially raising and lowering temperature trends to show “global warming.”)
Something happened between this year’s crop of students and all previous years which gives me hope. This year, not one single student claimed to be aware of Climategate, hockey stick, CO2 is a poisonous gas, the artic ice is disappearing, and oceans are rising, etc. The only term they had heard was “global warming,” but none had any opinion on it one way or another. In previous years, most students were familiar with those terms and were aware of the debate between skeptics and believers.
Maybe skeptics should track trends in public knowledge concerning this issue to ascertain how to effectively engage the general public in this debate.
The 20 to 30 age bracket has moved beyond CAGW as a debate and wants to engage in how to support alternative energy. See recent Pew Research results.
To Tim Ball:
You are either fooling yourself into trying to believe there is a difficult issue between appraising the public of the falseness of the AGW community, or just lying to protect your own culpable crimes. Your synopsis of what went in those climate hearings are truly slanted towards misrepresentation. Lets take some of your statements, statement 1:
“Even if they entertained the idea that “Their Paper” was wrong they were confronted with the question of whether the errors were from incompetence or corruption, something the presenters of “Your Paper” were not able or willing to answer.”
That statement shows either incompetence or corruption. If you’re not “able” to answer that means you don’t understand what you’re talking about, and that only means you shouldn’t even be their in the first place, furthermore, it means you are masquerading around as an expert in something you are not. As for “not willing to answer”, that is the classic answer that someone uses so as to protect their own culpability of crimes, in this case, scientific crimes, namely, FRAUD.
There are simple solutions here, where you sir, try to make every one believe that are instead complicated. Lies are easy to prove and disprove in science. We have what is called the Scientific Method, if it doesn’t stand to the test of the SM, then it is plain dogma, it shouldn’t be taken seriously. Especially when taxpayers money is concerned. For dogma winning tax dollars, is not research, it is FRAUD. The problem, sir, is that the Scientific Community has become corrupted with and over population of charlatans and scallywags. I noticed over the years as a referee, that the quality of scientific and engineering papers has noise dived. And the standards of said, referees has become deplorable. And lets not forget the collusion, where people pass each others papers, this has been going on for years. I remember one case where ONE Ph.D candidate used ONE set of results to get no less than NINE different papers from different journals. Did anyone care? No. In fact, it was applauded. I can go on and on, but would that do, nothing. For people like you, sir, only will seek to lie, hide, or find excuses.
The problem is that the scientific community has become corrupted. And that the peer review system, is irreparably broken. This malaise started largely in the 80’s, and has been progressively getting worse ever since.
Then you use the notion that things are too technical;
“…counter the myth that a majority of scientists (97%?) agree. It is too technical to present the arguments so well laid out in Lord Monckton’s analysis.”
What a load of rubbish. Try going through some of the greatest financial frauds that have occurred in our time, Enron, Worldcom, Tyco and Lehnman Brothers. In fact, the last one there, the forensic accountants are still punching the numbers to this day trying to get to the bottom of the financial abyss of reasons how that one worked exactly. You really think that a bunch of 2nd rate scientific morons, who started of with an idea of asking 10,000 scientists and then through stupid and bias reasons like, they were the only ones that actually published papers in global warming that fitted their distorted beliefs, thus whittling down the sample size to some 75 people that so very well selected to give a 97% support for their religion is too difficult to understand? What a load of rubbish. So your basically saying, if it is too difficult for the public, we should not introduce the rule of law? Mr. Ball, you sound more and more like someone who has something to hide himself. Are you a crook too? There is so much criminality already in science, where professors winning grants use tax payer money to buy personal toys and go on needless holidays, while research students suffer. I and many people reading this posting could name you very long lists of people who corrupt science through personal gain, but never do you see them go to prison.
Mr. Ball, you are looking, and I strongly believe, purposely, in the wrong direct. Science is corrupt, and until, THE NON SCIENTIFIC community demands to start putting the Scientific Community under the watchful eye of the fraud squads, we will have many more AGWs. When people like you who state, “[t]he price paid for even seeking the truth in climate science is financially and emotionally high, and few are willing to pay the price,” it only means, that you too are prepared to lie, cheat, and even steal to protect the thieves and corrupt individuals of science. What chance does the public have when even those like you so arrogantly place yourself in the position to claim that it is too difficult and hard to clean up science, while at the same time, benefit enormously. Dare I say, which backs are you scratching, and who are still scratching yours?
Mr. Ball, YOU ARE AN ARROGANT SNOB. You have no honour, and to write what you did in that letter of hypocrisy, above, is just an act of supreme confidence of a man who thinks he can say that, yes there are wrong doings going one, but you poor stupid people in the public will find it too difficult to understand why it is wrongful and even criminal, so don’t bother too much, we MORE intelligent scientific snobs will help you understand by making more dumb down films.
The problem here ladies and gentlemen, is that white-collar criminals protect each other. Judges, professors, politicians, and so on, rarely go to prison. Why? Because, try getting a crook, to say he is a crook, and then if by miracle you could, try getting that same crook, to punish themselves? And when that crook is a rotten cop, dirty judge, dishonest scientist, or slimy politician, who do you get to clean that up, when judges need cops, and scientists are professional witnesses and get paid really well for that, or when politicians pay all these other guys. Why is it that the criminality rate is so much lower in the white collar class than in the blue collar classes? Yes I know, the intellectual snobs will tell you that because the white collars have less need to commit crimes. Ok you geniuses, then answer this, why is it then that the recidivism rate between white collar and blue collar crimes is the same! Yeah, more white-collar snobbery, until we start treating white-collar crime with the same intent we do with blue-collar crime, scientists are going to keep on with their thieving ways. What do you say to that Dr. Timothy Ball, ex Professor.
For the record, I was born, no-collar (I come from peasantry), slogged my way through blue-collar, and eventually got educated to be a white-collar physicist. I have nothing against the white-collar class other than that they are doing a terrible job of managing this world and taking advantage of the blue-collars and lesser classes. My family and my people of which I derive myself from, have greatly suffered by the arrogant intellectual snobs of this world. We knew them by many names from where we come from, Communists, Fascists, the Gestapo, Americans, and British, call them what you like, my family and people have suffered greatly, and here I hear the same talk, the talk that things are too difficult, too complicated. This is the same talk that used just before, those who thought better than us peasants, decided to shoot or hang us, torture us, steal everything we had including our land and told us leave with nothing. This is what happens when you let the intellectual snobs of the world rule. And all I hear on this blog every single day….is just snobbery. Everybody knows what is really wrong with Science. When are we going to have an honest conversation about it!
In short, the community at large CAN NOT expect the Scientific Community to police itself. And asking something from that same community to give advice on what is problem of their corrupt community, is like going to Naples (that is Naples, Italy) in the good old days, and asking a Neapolitan if the Mafia existed.
Mr. Ball, I find your letter HIGHLY OFFENSIVE. As Hannah Arendt once said about the German people and their relationship to the evil Gestapo, in political and moral matters, obedience and support are the same. But to people like Mr. Ball, they conveniently have a dividing line. As a grandson I was once told by my grandfather, who was tortured by the Gestapo for days all because he escaped Dachau concentration camp, one of the few ever to do so, he said, after I asked him what he thought of the Germans, he said, “I have nothing against the German people, I think they’re amazing, especially considering what they have accomplished since the war, the problem is Doriano, of all the lies we were told, and those who knew better didn’t stand up to tell the truth, those people I will hate for eternity….I hate the cowards.”
This is from a man, who a few months later, escaped again from Dachau! But this time, walking only during the nights, he marched from Dachau during the winter of ’44, a bitter one it was, stealing what he could, and hiding during the days, and doing this for nearly two months and some several hundred kilometres of hostile German and Austrian territory,and then finally reaching Istria, the land of my people. After the war, once again, the intellectual snobs, Americans, British, Communists (aka Tito) decided for us peasants, and the result was we lost everything, and forced to leave Istria and start from nothing in Italia. And you know what my grandfather said, “once again, the intellectuals fucked us!”
All I ask, and my grandfather would ask, when will the intellectuals apply the same rule of law as they do to the peasants! Yeah when…
Riposa in Pace, Nonno.
Doriano
Um, I, think you, are way, off base. Sir.
“You cannot imagine how nasty people get until you experience it by challenging the prevailing wisdom.”
Here, Dr. Ball rests his case.
Off base…way off base.
Anger appears to have consumed reason with this post. I am surprised that it survived moderation.
To avoid any confusion I am referring to Dorian’s (3.35) comment and not to Dr Ball’s original post.
@Dorian… you would make prime candidate for the UN IPCC ie: an endless diatribe of meaningless BS. IMO
Everyone has a purpose in life and since it is no longer acceptable to lop off the heads of opponents, we need new tools to deal with them .. no ?
Apparently this fellow knows very little about U.S. history and the family backgrounds of so many who made the country possible. Many did not come from peasant backgrounds but wanted a free people for which they were prepared to give their lives if needed.
Here is what the opposition posted on youtube about this hearing (3+ minutes long):
That is pathetic. NASA and NOAA have well documented and adjustments, and satellite data is confirmed by balloon measurements. Nothing confirms ground measurements. Pure Alynski Blame Others Of What You Are Guilty.
http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/04/noaa-fiddles-with-climate-data-to-erase-the-15-year-global-warming-hiatus/
http://media.al.com/news_huntsville_impact/photo/john-christy-climate-change-chart-0a201a1637955761.jpg
Another excellent graphic.
What would be an alarmists reply to this one ?
WUWT, would you ask Dr Christy and Spencer to write an article answering these claims about the errors and adjustments. Also Sen Cruz should have tied the no warming to the increase in CO2.
As mentioned on a previous thread, all Cruz had to do in retaliation was to say if the retired admiral preferred a graph over a longer time period, whether he could detect any pause on a 2000 year temperature record – based on credible proxies. Then produce such a graph and also ask him, as well as any pause, could he also see any trends remarkably similar to-day.
However Cruz, would have to be able to strongly defend the sources of the graph and respond to the expected counter attack by the admiral on its authenticity. To do this he would have to have a deep understanding of temperature proxies, tree rings, the Hockey Stick, Climategate, Medieval Warm period, Little Ice Age, IPCC initial reports, differences between Northern and Southern Hemisphere, satellite measurements etc.
Perhaps a lot to ask of a senator preparing to participate in the race to be the next president of the USA.
But there does seem to be quite a few excuses in the above piece. My thoughts on the hearing are that the Skeptic’s army went in a little unprepared and underestimated the Dogma Opposition and did not fully anticipate their attack. With the exception of Mark Steyn, there was also little passion in the presentation of the Skeptic’s points in convincing any objective jury of their case.
With a deeper knowledge of climate science I reckon Mark Steyn could have done it just as well on his own. And with some-one like Christopher Monckton alongside, he would have annihilated them.
“Climate Hustle” is the popular antidote to “An inconvenient truth”.
When, if ever, it is released it chould start to turn the tide. I’m told that is funny unlike Gore’s humorless dirge!
This documentary also had a humorous bent to the global warming issue.
https://youtu.be/QowL2BiGK7o
Markey also talked much louder than anyone else.
And had that foam-at-the-mouth thing going.
Last year Christy Clark won a majority government in BC. Two weeks before the election my wife attended a a meeting with other BC Liberals and asked Clark point blank to do away with BC’s “revenue neutral” carbon tax because it hurt rural people unfairly. She looked straight at my wife and said softly “We can’t do away with it because we need the revenue.”
Dogma and money go hand and hand.
Monroe
I assume you have no reason to lie on “your moment”.
Ms Clark caressed your wife with a moment of reality.
Dr Happer in the last minutes before Cruz summation of the hearing responded to and corrected Titley’s previous fairy tale-like explanation of how Titley believed a microwave sensing unit (MSU) operated (Titley attempted to show its not able to read temperature) to detect temperature at various elevations above ground. The MSU is the main temperature sensor device in the UAH satellite temperature record. Titley had more or less said there was much interpretation and software and uncertainty involved with the MSU’s detection of temperature from hundreds of miles away and added that the MSU satellite’s orbit was constantly eroding requiring more corrections (I am just recalling some of Titley’s comments from memory). Dr Happer skillfully countered Titley’s explanation of MSU by saying that the same infra-red technology is that used by reading your body temperature by your doctor by placing the IR unit on your forehead, in your ear or elsewhere and instantly getting a temperature reading remotely. Until Dr Happer correction of Titley’s MSU description, Titley appeared to carry the truth for the Democratic side, at least as truth is viewed by Sen. Merkey. Titley’s inaccurate description of the MSU then severely taints his other comments before the hearing as well as his other abilities as a PhD Meteorologist.
As Rothbard explained over and over, the State must have the support of the majority of the population or at least the resigned acceptance. The intellectuals have always supported the state and kept the populous believing in the state and its necessity — in return for money, prestige, and honors. (once it was almost all churchmen but now the “scientist” fulfills the task) When you fight the prevailing consensus you in effect fight against the established order. No small task. We see men and women marginalized for contrary views in climate “science”, but that is not the only place. Medical research is just as bad and other fields are also.
Since the entire edifice of man-made catastrophic global warming rests upon delusion and propaganda, it is impossible to win by mere logic and facts. I doubt even a mile of ice over New York City would phase the so-called climate “scientists”.
It’s going to take a revolt by the younger scientists to topple the “prevailing consensus.” See my comment above: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/12/19/the-recent-senate-climate-hearing-failed-because-it-continues-to-miss-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-2102853 /Mr Lynn
LE
Thought provoking.
Young adults often respond to a perceived lie with an extreme backlash on the pendulum.
I think you are right, they will eventually be part of the backlash.
How are they going to do that when their funding and career depend on conformity?
Recall Dr Happer’s remark about needing a red team. Without such support, opposing views are silenced. Et voila: Consensus.
takes awhile, but at some point folks stop wearing izod shirts.
At some point we have to hope that integrity will start to trump conformity among young professional scientists. I suspect it’s happening now, but rather than confront the Powers-That-Be who control career opportunity, the rebellious just leave their fields and pursue other paths. To encourage confrontation, I have suggested a Foundation to help support rebels in Climatology and other fields, with grants, moral support, and even income. /Mr Lynn
FYI, I suggested the Foundation idea here:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/10/26/climate-rationalization-beliefs-and-denialism/#comment-2056577
It occasioned a little positive comment. /Mr L
Still a good idea LE.
FU money makes a man more likely to be truthful.
If a pharmaceutical company brings a product to market on fraudulently manipulated data they get charged with fraud. If people die from this fraud the directors should be charged with murder. The fraud here is at many levels and the corruption infiltrates all parts of society including the legal fraternity as evidenced by the white wash of climate gate. I think that once a high profile figure is jailed for these frauds I think the dominos can set in. There must be potential whistleblowers in bureaus or government and scientific agencies who can put together the smoking guns that will get the process going. Anthony’s recent article about the adjustments made to historic temperature data are clear indications of this systematic fraud is there and needs to lead to arrests.
I don’t blame warmists for getting their predictions wrong but I do feel cheated that they seem to be able to get away with manipulating the past.
You’re not wrong about the futility about arguing about the science. I think too many skeptics concede that CO2 causes global warming but not at the rates alarmists say. As a non scientific laymen I believe that if there is a causation between CO2 and global warming it is so diffused with other factors that there is correlation. We should never concede that CO 2 has any impact ( in a meaningful sense). If you concede that there is a relationship then it literally becomes an argument about degrees. Then in the publics eye it becomes a matter of opinion who to believe.
Highlighting the systematic fraud and bullying which is the hallmark of the AGW movement is the only way the public will listen. I know that in the end the person in jail on fraud charges is probably not going to be the one that the public will believe.
Simply put if the CAGW theorists are wrong with their leap of faith from the lab to a complex global climate system then time is on our side, particularly as we mark 2015 as the year a generation reached adulthood experiencing no measurable global warming in their lifetime. Problem number two for the shifting goalposts of these global warming cum climate change cum extreme weather soothsayers is as Walter Russell Mead pointed out, it’s all very well being noisy Green alarm clocks but then it boils down to the efficacy of their prescriptions and it’s here they’re found particularly wanting.
What’s their prescriptions at their perpetual gabfests? Whatever percentage of CO2 reductions by whenever we can manage it and essentially that means more of their windmills and solar panels as CO2 sequestration and alternative geothermal, tidal generation have insurmountable hurdles on any scale. Apart from pumping water uphill and storing calories mankind’s history of storing energy is somewhat pitiful and any rational look at chemical battery storage would conclude there’s no salvation there for their pet windmills and solar panels so where does that leave them having ruled out nuclear power generation?
It leaves them facing Lomborg’s inevitable conclusion that’s where it leaves them, although they’re hanging by their last flimsy thread of rational scientific credibility that technological advance/breakthrough will make us all see their ultimate Nirvana with wind and solar in particular. Not to worry because technological advance will make solar more efficient than it currently is at collecting a sixth or seventh of the sun’s energy at present. Que? All that some 100% theoretical maximum sun’s energy collectivity would achieve, is 6 or 7 times variability from the zero at night they have now and it wouldn’t matter if the panels were free to produce if they can’t store the energy. Well it’s like this noisy Green alarm clocks. I’m still starting my car with essentially the same lead acid battery Henry was plonking in the Model T and I don’t notice any solar car for sale like they drive from Darwin to my home town Adelaide in the Solar Challenge so you work it out.
Thanks Dr. Ball. I’m afraid we will never get off this merry-go-round until there is a distinct and significant cooling trend in the climate. No matter what science is presented there’s always another “study” to counter it. The only thing that may convince believer’s is an actual cooling climate. Until then, this battle will continue forever, no matter how compelling the science of the skeptical side is.
History points to paths of least resistance when it comes to group behavior.
Perhaps the path to victory for skeptics is :
1. The cooling will come
2. Until such time, SLOW THEM DOWN and be resolute concerning the preservation of the scientific method .. it will be need to be championed to survive the donkey turd trend of decision making
3. The unintended consequence of this battle is scientists/engineers learn how to communicate risk management better
4. You are small, they are large. Pick tactics that the small use to fight the large. Full frontal attacks don’t work against a larger opponent. Slowing down the opposition while they develop a sense of arrogance will create opportunities for attack.
5. Learn to use the requirements the authorities use to qualify science to your favor. Anthony’s most recent work is an example of how to maximize that tactic.
And above all, Dr Ball raises the seminal tactic that skeptics need to stick at the heart of the matter concerning CAGW. Counter sound bites with better sound bites. Possible example …
“Oh yeah, the warmest year EVER. I’m melting. That’s nonsense. The Romans conquered the world during a warmer period. Civilization peaked.”
“Well why do they claim it is the warmest”
“Because they want to scare and control you so that you’ll give them your freedom and money. Why would they tell you it is warmer now when the FACT is that it was warmer back during the time of Jesus” ?
“Are they lying when they tell us the temp ?”
“Some people are adept at bullying others and the bullies are creating a system that tells lies”
Just a few thoughts from hillbilly world.
I agree that the panel could have said more but that was not all their fault.
The whole event was obviously stage-managed. Most of the politicians just read out their pre-prepared speeches. The scientists were really just window dressing who had been flown in to add some credibility to the proceedings.
The other problem is that the scientists tend to not only play by the rules but also assume that “truth will persuade”. Steyn was less inclined to stick to the rules so he managed to score some points.
To pick up on Markey’s 97% problem would have taken some preparation by Cruz and the panel. He could have asked them whether the 97% was correct or not. I always challenge any 97% quotes. I start by asking which paper they believe. if they do not know I go through a list:
Doran and Zimmerman 2009 – based on 77 scientists;
Cook et al 2013 – 0.3% of papers said man mainly responsible – no scientists asked anything;
Anderegg et al 2010 – Challenge the lists, the scoring and the population comparison technique.
Oreskes et al 2004 – Peiser’s re-run of the data showed that only 13 out of 1117 actually endorsed the consensus.
Only the Doran and Zimmerman paper was a survey of scientists.
The real takeaway is if these papers are so easy to find holes in how many other climate papers also have holes because some have climate scientists’ names attached.
Markey’s reliance on the science institutions should have been undermined because the panel members were also members of said institutions. Also, how many polled their members? As Curry started to say, AMS had a poll that came out 52:48 – hardly 97%.
A different sound bite attack on 97%. Please refine, polish, and offer up to our ragtag global guerilla army of skeptics. We could surely use that sound bite ammunition.
The ragtag skeptics groups organically develops its “comebacks”. WUWT should consider an IM system of communication. It would force a more succinct back and forth of messaging. I see it in fits and starts thru the posting, but it losses the continuity of exchange. The word giants exist here. They just need to be unleashed.
I watched the Cruz senate hearing and I came away with exactly the same thoughts that graphicconception verbally illustrates. No one offers any rebuttal to the 97% consensus statements that were made. On that point alone the hearing was a failure.
Regards
Climate Heretic
“The real takeaway is if these papers are so easy to find holes in how many other climate papers also have holes because some have climate scientists’ names attached.”
Unfortunately, I have to disagree.
The real takeaway is that, even though your list shows that the 97% meme is patently and transparently false, it is still being repeated to this day and ad nauseum, by everyone from the President of the United States and knucklehead who lives across the street, to the legion of tireless blog trolls who haunt the interwebs.
Like many aspects of CAGW, it is literally a blatant lie that refuses to die.
A zombie fact.
Thank you although it’s depressing. Our voice today is not going to be heard on matters of science….that much is true. However reality is poking through the dark clouds and the impending failure of renewables to take over from fossil fuels will win in the end because what we do have is time. The longer their scare tactics fail to pan out the more people will distrust them. You may be able to declare CO2 a pollutant but you can’t dictate that wind and solar replace fossil fuels worldwide overnight, or in a decade, or even a century. We’re addicted to what fossil fuels provide and until that can be matched they’re spitting into the wind.
“the impending failure of renewables to take over from fossil fuels will win in the end because what we do have is time.”
I think so. In five years I project:
Temps will be flat (most likely) or insignificantly warmer or cooler (95% certainty).
Electrical costs will have doubled.
Cars will be flimsier and more dangerous, due to their new higher MPG requirements.
Our economy will be suffering.
Our example will not have inspired others to follow in our failed footprints.
Developing world coal plants will be kicking in and CO2 will continue rising.
The impracticality of large-scale use of renewables will become plainly evident in Europe.
Some poorer European countries will start reneging on their commitments.
The status of warmists will have changed from doughty underdogs to snotty overlords, which will win them less public sympathy.
There will be defections of some prominent warmists. The percentage of the consensus will shrink.
At best, the believers have a stake in environmental stability, which is why most support selective-child rites (and a subset support clinical cannibalism by Planned Parenthood et al) under the quasi-religious pro-choice doctrine, and redistributive change schemes at progressive levels of reduced liability (e.g. federal vs state, labor and capital debasement), including those justified by the prophecy of catastrophic anthropogenic global warming. They create an illusion of operating within a scientific frame of reference, and maintain a pretense of a moral or religious orientations, while exceeding, often wildly, the first, and selectively or deceptively upholding the last.
Christopher Booker is able to get his message through:
19 Dec: UK Telegraph: Christopher Booker: The Paris climate fiasco leaves UK alone in the dark
Finally, ultra-greens and climate sceptics agree on something; that the climate conference was a scam
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/12060003/The-Paris-climate-fiasco-leaves-UK-alone-in-the-dark.html
“What we’ve got here is failure to communicate……….Some men you just can’t reach. So you get what we had here last week”….
It can’t be talked out, it needs real action to coerce people to think again, brainwashing its deactivation takes time.
It’s difficult to defenestrate an unknown known and nebulous shape shifter.
It used to be ‘original sin’ but all thanks to the Ivy league and its devotion to all the precepts of the Frankfurt School and Soros, Billary its next incarnation [by incantation?]. Thus, with Christianity been buried long ago.
But they had to move on from the idea of original sin and onto something else, it had to be invented, a perfect political myth, a vehicle for strapping the taxpayers and oh glory and mother Gaia! – an existential threat to boot. In came, this ‘man made warming’ thing but now……..its gone in way too deep.
It needs expiation and a systematic purge, a Republican candidate who doesn’t drink at the font of cool aid – the only way to wind it in, is to totally defund it and stop indoctrination of school children: for a Republican to get himself elected president and it’s way past time for that.
Then, we could start the renaissance and the offensive in earnest: back to reality, back to pure science.
To me the real fight, is the fight against “experts”. Until this paradigm of trusting people with “better education” is reversed and people are empowered once more to think for themselves the subtle push to technocracy will continue, with climate science just the pointy end of a very large stick.
My formal education effectively ended at 16 and I work a simple job, but I never go into debates with the opening line of “I’m not a scientist”. I take the Richard Feynmann definition of the question: “science is the belief in the incompetence of experts”. By this definition I am one of the greatest practitioners of science on the planet!!
I go further when I debate any scientist on this issue by saying that my opponent is either blind, stupid or corrupt and that our debate is simply to determine which catagory they fall under!
It’s time to take off the gloves and stop being Mr nice guy. This is the REAL error of skeptics.
Excuse me for bursting a few bubbles, but if you call yourself an expert in something and don’t have the ability to explain the expertise to the common man, then perhaps you don’t know your stuff as well as you think you do.
Most people are smarter than they are given credit for being, and
Most smart people aren’t as smart as they think they are.
But some are.
“But some are”
Indeed, the nugget of impact. Forums like WUWT allow thousands of eyes to both contribute and read a variety of povs. They tend to flush out weak debate and promote a stronger line.
I know many expert welders, but have only met one master (RIP). He was able to teach a variety of personalities because he focused on understanding their frame of mind, rather than force feeding his expertise.
97%, hottest evah, CO2 forcing, species armageddon, solar, wind and puppies tails are all poor welds practiced over and over. The master is the person who listens, identifies and engages why they hold onto that poor weld before trying to explain how to perform excellence.
B I N G O !
When they ask me my education credentials, I tell them, ” I successfully graduated from Mrs. McGraw’s 8th grade, took personal typing along the way and am self taught in Excel. I may have more educations than that but it’s all I need to to refute most of what passes for climate science.”
Check out Brian Martin’s booklet (free online somewhere I think), Strip the Experts (1991). It’s a Rules for Radicals for our side.
http://www.bmartin.cc/pubs/91strip.html
From the link ….
“Every group criticises experts on the other side but is happy with its own experts. Perhaps it’s time to encourage people to think for themselves rather than always trusting someone else. ”
Captain Obvious, I agree … do you have a nice little you tube link for “debating an expert” ?
At some level the Court , to be an honest Court , cannot plead ignorance of basic physics .
BA, by constitutional charter, they sure can. They resolve matters of law, not matters of ‘fact’. Including physics facts.
To be fair, when science was less ripe with corruption, the courts had an easier time of applying daubert factors. The relatively recent downward spiral of scientific independence has throw many a court for a loop.
Who says ?
It seems to me that the majority of the public are uninterested in climate change. They consider it a minor issue at best. The left, however, controls the media and they will not let it die. The issue to them, or at least to many of them, isn’t whether there is any truth to climate change.caused by human activity. To them it is all about a vast transfer of wealth. It is totally about politics, not science. If God himself were to appear and say that humans had nothing to do with climate change they would claim that God was wrong.
If God did that, the Pope would send him to a safe space to think it over.
He would tell him “think of the children”.
Rationality or fear. The choice is yours.
Dr Ball
Thanks for linking to the full interview with Ms May. Top notch stuff and gives me great insight concerning successful tactics. It was also very interesting to see the style of diversion and immediate disintegration into irrelevant minutia when I read the comments to the interview.
I think your onto something good concerning tactics.
Again, thanks for your relentless work.
Seconded. And never underestimate the importance of being persistent. (Just ask Lenin.)