Readers of WUWT and millions of climate skeptics have read this article before, and in fact it is likely one of the most cited articles ever that illustrates the chutzpah and sheer hubris on display from a climate scientist who was so certain he could predict the future with certainty. Dr. David Viner of the Climatic Research Unit who famously said:
From the Independent’s most cited article: Snowfalls are now just a thing of the past by Charles Onians:
However, the warming is so far manifesting itself more in winters which are less cold than in much hotter summers. According to Dr David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia,within a few years winter snowfall will become “a very rare and exciting event”.
“Children just aren’t going to know what snow is,” he said.
It seems however, that after over 15 years, the Independent has removed that article, and the URL now comes up like this:
Here is what it originally looked like:
Fortunately, I have preserved the entire article as a PDF for posterity:
Snowfalls are now just a thing of the past – The Independent (PDF)
One wonders about the timing, whether it is related to the upcoming COP21 climate confab in Paris, or if it was simply some blunder, oversight, or archive purge on the part of The Independent.
Note: I owe a hat tip to a WUWT reader, whose email/comment seems to be lost in the firehose of communications I get daily. If you are reading, leave a note in comments and I’ll correct this. The reader was Cole Pritchard, who sent the info to my phone via IM, Thanks Cole.
Update: It gets curiouser, searching on The Independent website using their search engine for the phrase “Snowfalls are now just a thing of the past” yields only one result for that exact string – a story lambasting the original article that contained the phrase.
Published in the year 2000, I thought maybe the story was just too old, and the Independent simply removed the story to save archive space, or maybe this had to do with some site redesign and the URL simply got broken. Yet when I remove the quote marks to search for the phrase in general, and not exactly, other stories back as far as 1994 about global warming and snow appear:
It seems clear now that the removal was deliberate.
Really, everybody. It seems hardly likely they are attempting to cover up a blunder after 15 years.
Some routine IT housekeeping seems more likely.
Oh, I don’t think so, Miss Mellie (although your generous spirit is admirable).
I think the Enviroprofiteers (wind and solar industry, mostly) are just desperate to rehabilitate their “expert” witness’ credibility, here.
After all, you can’t have your
“principal advisor for climate change”** known for being one of the biggest ignoramuses in The United Kingdom…
** Mott MacDonald has appointed Dr David Viner as principal advisor for climate change. An internationally recognised expert, David brings with him 20 years of experience working in the area of climate change. …
Mott MacDonald’s environment manager Ian Allison said: “We are delighted to welcome David to Mott MacDonald. Sustainability and climate change are important drivers for our business… .” {<– lol, indeed:
"Harnessing wind energy through developing onshore and offshore wind farms is a major area where we have a particularly strong track record." Source: https://www.mottmac.com/industry/industrial-infrastructure . }
Source: https://www.mottmac.com/article/614/mott-macdonald-appoints-dr-david-viner-as-pri
Just follow the money (Viner, “expert,” still hustling for Mott MacDonald as of December, 2014):
“Dr David Viner from Mott MacDonald says that the hydropower industry cannot ignore climate change. In order for hydropower schemes to be climate resilient over their entire planned lifetime, he says that climate change needs to be at the forefront of design, feasibility, construction, operation and maintenance.”
Source: http://www.waterpowermagazine.com/opinion/opinionmaking-hydropower-resilient-to-climate-change-4462635/
And here, on August 12, 2015,
is David Viner in a more subtle role using Linked In to push Mott MacDonald’s “important drivers for our business [, sustainability and climate change]” (Ian Allison, Mott MacDonald in my comment at 5:59pm today):
“I need you help to give your views on the Climatescope online tool … Mott MacDonald is undertaking a survey … Climatescope is a global index aimed at helping private sector developers, their consultants, governments and research bodies decide where to invest in Clean energy … .”
By David Viner
Source: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/survey-climatescope-clean-energy-investment-tool-david-viner?articleId=6037208072106053632
**************************
Conclusion: Mott MacDonald’s “expert” is undergoing preventive maintenance.
Perhaps someone should write to The Independent and ask them about their IT housekeeping policy.
Have all stories older than 15 years been deleted.? Or is the deletion of articles selective, and if so what forms the selection process?
Published in the year 2000, I thought maybe the story was just too old, and the Independent simply removed the story to save archive space, or maybe this had to do with some site redesign and the URL simply got broken. Yet when I remove the quote marks to search for the phrase in general, and not exactly, other stories back as far as 1994 about global warming and snow appear: …
(from above-posted article by Anthony Watts)
Appears to selective.
Appears to be selective.
Janice
Since this is not a scientific article, I only quickly scanned it, and obviously missed the reference of back to 1994. At first glance, the deletion therefore appears to be part of some selective process as you suggest.
Dear Richard Verney,
I hope you realize that I was only informing you, not trying to cast aspersions on your intelligence. Your fine mind has repeatedly demonstrated on WUWT that you are a fine information analyst. If my tone was offensive, please forgive me. Remember, others likely scanned the article quickly and missed that information, also, so, your comment ended up helping others, too!
If you are in Scotland, in that snowstorm, keep warm and add an extra pat of butter to your oatmeal in the morning 🙂 (i.e., fat = warm). And two extra spoonfuls of brown sugar! <– ONLY because it tastes good….!
#(:))
Take care,
Janice
>>It seems hardly likely they are attempting to
>>cover up a blunder after 15 years.
It may well be that Independent staff had forgotten all about it. if you inhabit Warmist Fantasist sites, and never read the Climate Realist sites, you may never have seen this article for years. It is more likely that someone at the Independent inadvertently dialed into WUWT, and was shocked by what heshe saw.
R
TonyL, you are a nice guy. But, you know, this children not ever seeing snow again is, I would say, an iconic representation of the hysterics of CAGW proponents that will live on in the future. It will be a cautionary tale for future development of science and science teaching. It will rank up there with the ‘black swan’. It will become a metaphor for the whole debacle of this 30yr (plus, perhaps another 5yrs) period. The ‘disappearing’ itself, which shows that the Independent is having a tougher time cleaving to the narrative and doesn’t want to have such an iconic blunder under it’s name, will ironically highlight it and cement it into the history of shocking times. Is Viner still publishing stuff? I suspect he has either greatly reduced or stopped his output or piled the old stuff under hundreds of more recent, more thoughful papers.
Meanwhile new daft predictions are popping up every day. Like this one from Nature:
“The results provide a clear, stark message: if we assume that the Amundsen Glacier is indeed destabilized, which current evidence suggests, then the entire Western ice sheet will discharge into the ocean within 3000 years, leading to a 3 meter rise in sea level within 10,000 years. This extreme loss is due to a ‘point-of-no-return’ scenario: once the grounding line begins retreating, ice will continue to melt inland, allowing water to carve a path inward until it breaks off the whole western sheet.
It is true that this process unfolds over a very long time period, giving us plenty of time to respond if this scenario does occur. But the world would look quite different. In the US alone, 12.3 million people would lose their homes.”
12.3million people who currently live in coastal areas will lose their homes in 10,000 years.
So this is Nature? A journal which prints material which is so embarrassingly idiotic that I couldn’t create a satire that was more bizarrely stupid than the original.
Do people now enter climate science direct from Kindergarten?
From: http://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/eyes-on-environment/shortterm_stability_and_longterm_collapse
“Do people now enter climate science direct from Kindergarten?”
No. 77 out of 79 climate specialists enter direct from their local mental institution.
In Nature’s defense, this looks like a blog rather than part of the journal itself, I’m not sure blogs are refereed at all.
But it’s still a great find. I loved the part about the model being “complicated”. I used to do a fair amount of computer modeling (as have many folks who visit this site apparently). It never ceases to amaze me that climate researchers treat their models as reality or that casual readers of articles like this one seem happy to suspend disbelief while reading them. I suppose people like to read disaster stories, who would be intrigued to discover the latest climate models suggest everything’s going to be peachy for the foreseeable future? Doesn’t make good diner conversation.
We had to wait only one day for a real disaster. The imaginary 10,000 year event discusses here seems somehow even more non-existent than yesterday.
I must stop looking at this rubbish.
I feel that fools are wasting my time. 🙂
Well, this story is still up:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/climate-row-scientist-contemplated-suicide-1892260.html
It’s about Phil Jones and his problems and thoughts of suicide from dealing with Climategate.
It’s hard to feel too sympathetic with him since he wrote in http://assassinationscience.com/climategate/1/FOIA/mail/1075403821.txt on the sudden death of skeptic John Daly:
From: Phil Jones <...@uea.ac.uk> To: <Michael Mann> ...@virginia.edu Subject: Fwd: John L. Daly dead Date: Thu Jan 29 14:17:01 2004 From: Timo Hämeranta <...@pp.inet.fi> To: <...@pp.inet.fi> Subject: John L. Daly dead Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:04:28 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal Mike, In an odd way this is cheering news ! One other thing about the CC paper - just found another email - is that McKittrick says it is standard practice in Econometrics journals to give all the data and codes !! According to legal advice IPR overrides this. Cheers Phil "It is with deep sadness that the Daly Family have to announce the sudden death of John Daly.Condolences may be sent to John's email account (daly@john-daly.com) " Reported with great sadness Timo Hämeranta xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxWell, I read the entire thing. It is wrong about the snow. It is wrong about the 0.2C/decade. It is roughly right about the +0.6C warming. It is correct that AGW is manifesting itself primarily in the winter. The sensationalization gets it a downcheck.-
I therefore give it a D. A middle-of-the-road D.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100222487/when-it-comes-to-climate-change-we-have-to-trust-our-scientists-because-they-know-lots-of-big-scary-words/
The “big scary words” article is a classic. A brief excerpt:
“I asked Stephen Belcher, the head of the Met Office Hadley Centre, whether the recent extended winter was related to global warming. Shaking his famous ‘ghost stick’, and fingering his trademark necklace of sharks’ teeth and mammoth bones, the loin-clothed Belcher blew smoke into a conch, and replied,
‘Here come de heap big warmy….'”
Follow clipe’s link for the rest.
Not right now, thanks. I’m eating lunch, and forcibly ejecting a ham and cheese sandwich via my nostrils is not on my bucket list. Later, when oxygen is available for recovery from uncontrollable laughter.
Oh I’m bound to go
Where there ain’t no snow
Where the rain don’t fall
The winds don’t blow
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains.
He was describing his version of paradise, come to think of it.
Is he still alive? It’s time to rub it in his face if he is.
“Page not found ….
Sorry … .”
Right.
The change old temperature data, so why not old articles?
Every time it snowed where I live I would take a picture and tweet it along with a link to “Snow Is A Thing of the Past”.
( @protonice )
I should take a picture of todays rain and tweet it along with a link to “Dry Weather Today is a pimple Compared to the Dry Weather we are going to get”, published a few months ago in The Vancouver Sun.
Gary – LOL. Yes 2015 had a dastardly dry summer, a dastardly wet fall. SNAFU. When I went to UBC from the dry interior in 1966, my car didn’t dry out for 8 months (ie when I left Vancouver and went back to the interior). That fall set the record at the time for continuous days of rainfall.
Well, I missed that weather by one year as I moved to the Vancouver region the following year, Halloween 1967. Summers have always been hot and dry and in fact it was May of this year that was the driest on record that isn’t even a summer month, and the record of 51 or 54 days without rain was not broken this year.
This morning the rainfall since Sept 1 has been 355 mm while the average is 300 mm. I highly doubt that next may will be even near as dry as this past may.
Last October (2014) give or take a month saw 150 mm instead of the average 100 mm, but none of the alarmist reports about the dry weather mentioned this and instead cherry picked months.
The dry weather was hyped by alarmists hear as being a result of climate change.
The wind storm on the last weekend of August, that wasn’t even predicted half an hour before it occurred has been hyped by alarmists :
“Although the windstorm is now over, the freshly battered Metro Vancouver’s situation has been suggested to be a sign of worse weather to come. Climate change scientists have been asserting that more extreme weather like this will become commonplace if the global warming continues without sufficient regulation,” — The Peak – Student Newspaper of Simon Fraser, September 8, 2015, page 5.
Note, the temperatures were below normal during the wind storm compared to the wind storm of 2006 where Stephen Hume wrote about the 68% above normal temperatures using his special Celsius physics. No mention what the temperatures were during the great wind storm of 1934 in this region.
I forgot to mention, just a couple of years ago or so during a cold wet spring it was declared that this is the weather climate scientists say will be the new norm. This would wreck havoc with our tourism industry so it was written. No mater the weather, wet or dry, it’s climate changes fault, and these declarations also don’t re-appear when the predictions don’t pan out.
Note, I wrote hear above when I meant here. knotty me, I should have read what I wrote before submitting. I have been having trouble sleeping since Turdeau has been anointed king of Canada and now I hear Dion stating that climate change is to be the top concern of all the cabinet ministers of the land. Sickening.
Aaaaand down the Memory Hole it goes! Thank you Winston, now quick, off to the Two Minutes Hate with you! Time to hiss at Emannuel Koch.
As a disclaimer – I don’t really care all that much whether the Independent did this on purpose.
I just like drawing lots of attention to how completely stupid the media, media “experts”.
And attention to the fact that looney alarmist predictions are invariably further from reality than a random guess. The nitwits have learned though, I suppose. Inasmuch as they now couch alarmism in vague and often meaningless conditional terms. They only make solid prediction about events that will NOT occur after their retirement or death.
The odd idiot breaks free from the climate alarm asylum and further empties his mind in the presence of a journalist. In which case we get to witness the joyous spectacle of a once proud believer losing his marbles.
As has now happened with poor Mr Viner.
(I have removed his title – for his own benefit!! It was only doing him harm.)
The odd idiot breaks free from the climate alarm asylum and further empties his mind in the presence of a journalist. In which case we get to witness the joyous spectacle of a once proud believer losing his marbles.
I see what you did there! You’re referring to Professor ‘Arctic will be ice free in 2015’ Peter Wadhams aren’t you?
How could we ever forget:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/09/28/wacky-wadhams-climate-murder-conspiracy-complaint-dismissed/
It’s called ‘Climastrology’,in the past we had ‘Spiritualism’ ‘tea leave readers’ ‘seances’ ‘astrologists’ ‘ouija board readers’ ‘tarot card readers’ all sucking money from the gulible,
It seems that Governments have seen the potential for sucking money from the ‘Gulible’ and gone along with ‘Climastrology’.
In the future people will look back and laugh at the stupidity of people paying for ‘Climastrological’ predictions.
I suspect as the scheme implodes and members of the Cult of Calamitous Climate are deprogrammed by cold weather and angry impoverished taxpayers.
The records of their gullibility here on the internet will come under serious attack.
The US Democrats are already on the record wanting to control(regulate) the web and so is the UN.
Strange how people who campaign for immunity from prosecution also want to control the history.
Someone needs to write a book titled, “2084,” about Climatism.
I don’t know if there is any deliberate action being taken here, but that’s not, IMHO, what we should be discussing. What we should be discussing is how to preserve the original article for easy reference now that the original is gone. I know A_thony linked to his copy in this article, but at some future point, I’ll forget where that was. Future being about 48 hours for me…..
Perhaps a special link in the WUWT sidebar?
Disappearing Failed Climate Predictions..
‘If your doom and gloom predictions fail to materialize, we will make them go away and restore your credibility..’
Sounds like a dang RON.CO commercial.. For just 49.99 we will make your past failed predictions Viner! (Oh wait.. that should say ‘VANISH’… my bad 🙂
Welcome to the New World Order.. Ignore those failed predictions behind the curtain….
Nothing that is happening prior to Paris is surprising me and I set that bar very low. Makes me wonder if Viner is giving a speech?
Ah, the Internet.
Once it goes up, guys, you ain’t never getting it suppressed.
Yes! Indeed! Nice example, Tucci.
Oh, I just can’t help myself….
(inspired by:
“Figaro” — Luciano Pavarotti
(youtube))
#(:))
(just a little comedia relief)
Personally…
I’d rather be discussing “Figaro” than Viner any — day.
Okay, okay, OKAAAAAAAAAAAAY.
Back to science.
~[:|]
Janice
Thank you. made my day.
michael
Oh, THANK YOU, Mike (who is most certainly not a) Morlock. That Tucci — NEVER acknowledges my attempts to have a little fun with him. How nice of you to take the time.
Heh. Glad you got a smile out of that.
#(:))
Accidenti!
(The first word spoken in The Barber of Seville, and naturally the first word taught to us Italian-American parochial school kids when we were brought to a performance of that opera.)
I woke up last night with a wicked idea. I thought wouldn’t it be fun to start a rumor about the Paris shindig? I mean, well since they don’t like “new ice” and don’t think it’s as good as old ice, why not put out a story that the organizers are importing ancient ice for the delegate’s mixed drinks. Their standing in the pecking order at the conference would reflect which geological era their ice came from. All sorts of stories as intrigues could and would take on a life of their own. Sigh I laughed until my sides hurt.
Since I retired I fear I have to much free time.
michael
Setting aside his feast of Eloi tartare, Mike the Morlock suggests:
There is, of course, merit in this. Better yet, let us connive to deliver these quanta of “ancient ice” to the conference, carefully labeled.
D’you think Penn Jillette might like to get in on this gentle jest?
Accidenti! ???!
How do you mean this, Mr. Tucci? As in: “Che accidenti state facendo, you annoying woman??”
or “Accidenti, che bella comment!” ???
Well, thank you, at least, for taking the time to acknowledge it.
Writes Janice Moore:
Sheesh. Y’know, you’re on the Web right now. They’ve got “search engines” ‘n everything.
From Wiktionary:
Italian-Americans of my generation grew up hearing it from our grandparents all the time, which is why it got laughs from those of us who were field-trip’d to see performances of Il barbiere di Siviglia in parochial school.
I noticed, Dr. Tucci……
that you NEVER ANSWERED MY QUESTION.
I think your answer is adding up to, essentially: “Sheesh!”
So, I take that back. Got my answer 🙂
Janice Moore writes:
Not much of a question, Ms. Moore. Recall that you started this with your “TUUUUUUUUcci-co!” silliness (plainly not realizing that a “-co” word ending in such a context is not Italianate; more appropriate would’ve been “Tucci-o!” [employing the suffix “-uccio” meaning “small” or “little”] in emulation of the aria’s repeated call of “Figaro!”).
I replied – in clever parsimony – with the first word spoken in that opera buffa – which carries with it the connotation in the American language: “Damn!”
Dear Dr. Tucci,
I did not use the plain “o” suffix because I did not want to imply at all that you are a small man. To be perfectly candid, no, I was, indeed, ignorant of Italian, there — my conscious intent was simply to get a better rhyme parallel with Figaro, but used “c” instead of “g.”
Next time…. I will merrily sing out:
I think I may have offended you and I regret that. I hope that you can forgive my having fun in such a silly way. We are ALLIES, you know! 🙂
Thank you for the education.
Janice
A. W. wrote: “>i>One wonders about the timing, whether it is related to …” etc.
The timing could be related to the fact that it is snowing – in Kansas, Colorado, Washington State, British Columbia, and ….
David Viner likely meant East Anglia but I don’t recall that was specified.
Nice observation. (and lol)
Keep warm, John (and Nancy).
— and don’t feel bad about the italics deal…. you just made those of us who have ALSO done that kind of thing feel much better 🙂
Hi, Janice.
Missed the bracket. Not the first time.
Years ago there were many comments where the person (maybe me) would fail to close the italics or bold and that might carry through for many of the following comments. The mods would usually fix it after letting us know what klutzes we were. Haven’t seen such in a long time so I guess that is automated now.
Can a blame it on being worn out?
I cut and split a bit of firewood for a needy neighbor today — wanting to get it under cover before the storm (now over the Strait of Juan de Fuca with rain reaching the Cascade Crest) gets here. Then I did my own chores and fixed supper. Nancy was doing a music thing (fiddle) with others at a rehab place. Only then did a check to see what was up here.
Best to you and anyone getting rain, snow, or cold tonight.
Dear John Hultquist,
What a guy. Thanks for chatting a little bit. My family and friends (in the Seattle –> Bellingham area) were a bit anxious yesterday about the storm headed their way. I hope that it blew itself out over the straits and wasn’t as bad as feared.
Take care and keep on fiddlin’!
Janice
P.S. I quoted your encouragement to me, a non-scientist, rather shy (oh, boy, THAT sure changed, heh) of commenting on WUWT, “You know things. Share.” with Monna Manhas who has been here awhile, but is quite reticent (so should LOTS of people, here). You see what a fine difference you make? Even the small things…. the ripples spread on and on. 🙂
I live in Somerset, England. And we have had numerous winters of astonishingly deep and beautiful snowfall. Some of the heaviest snowfalls I have ever seen have been in the last few years.
I have measured -17degC on one night. There was ice on the inside of my front door!!
There ain’t no – end of snow!!
“Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past.” Ingsoc (Newspeak for English Socialism or the English Socialist Party) is the political ideology of the totalitarian government of Oceania in George Orwell’s dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four.
Our blunder? Let bygones be bygones.
(Signed) 97%
11 Nov: LA Times: ‘Everything is blinding white’: Huge Sierra snowstorm pays off for winter resorts
By Joseph Serna and Bettina Boxall
A massive storm that dropped snow across hundreds of miles of the Sierra Nevada is paying dividends for winter resorts, if social media is any indicator.
From Lake Tahoe and Mt. Rose to Mammoth Mountain, vacation destinations have taken to Twitter to boast that their slopes are ready for visitors…
http://www.latimes.com/local/weather/la-me-ln-snow-storm-sierra-20151111-story.html
The second article on this topic in the Independent in 2011 simply made the situation worse.
By misrepresenting the first article.
They really are trying to desperately stage manage the interpretation of their own failure:
http://www.thegwpf.com/ministry-of-truth-independent-newspaper-channels-orwell/
And a more in depth analysis of the situation is here.
Take the time to re-read the original March 2000 Viner article and then the 2011 Conner manipulation.
Lying liars and the lies they tell. Shameful and desperate stuff:
http://www.thegwpf.com/met-office-spins-itself-deeper-into-the-hole/
We have one of those false prophets in Australia, called Tim Flannery. The socialists haven’t erased it from memory yet
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/tim_flannery_should_explain_these_full_dams/
I’ve heard of snow removal, but this is the first time I’ve ever heard of anyone feeling the need to remove the absence of snow.
I used to buy The Independent for many years, from the first day it was published.
It gives me no (net) pleasure to read this account of their fall. Like the BBC, they shall reap what they have sown.