Are Aussie Politicians Plotting to Degrade Democratic Choice on Carbon Pricing?

turnbull-abbot

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

It didn’t take long for Australia’s new Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull to tear up his promise to keep Abbott’s climate policies. Now Turnbull appears to have taken the next step.

Australians voted overwhelmingly against carbon pricing in the last Federal Election, but for some strange reason carbon pricing now seems to be back on the agenda again – except this time, the major Australian Political parties may be planning to present a seamless non choice to Australian voters.

According to The Guardian;

Leaders from business, welfare, the conservation movement, the electricity sector and the union movement have moved to try to fill Australia’s climate policy vacuum by starting a new slogan-free debate to help political parties find workable greenhouse policies.

Mirroring the Turnbull government’s tax debate, in which all policy options are back “on the table”, the groups commissioned major consultancies to present on six climate policy options at a special closed-door summit this week. They intend to publish the results in a back-to-the-drawing-board policy “primer” to be released next year.

Indicating the extent to which six years of bitter climate policy war have forced wide-ranging discussion outside the political arena, advisers to environment minister Greg Hunt, resources minister Josh Frydenberg and Labor environment spokesman Mark Butler, as well as advisers to state governments, all attended the workshop as observers.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/nov/07/climate-summit-held-by-business-and-green-groups-to-end-six-year-policy-war

In Britain, this kind of shameless cross party policy rigging led to the rise of UKIP, which in the last UK election won over 3 million votes. In the UK, which has a “first past the post” election system, this wasn’t quite enough – it didn’t translate into a significant number of electoral victories, though UKIP came very close to reaching the critical threshold at which substantial wins become likely. But in Australia, which uses an alternate vote system, a voting block of this magnitude would likely have translated into a substantial number of electoral upsets.

Make no mistake, there is a potentially gigantic amount of money on the table. Quite apart from vast legitimate profits which can be made from slurping government green subsidies, or rent seeking off ordinary people’s electricity bills, carbon pricing also frequently opens new opportunities for criminals. In Denmark, in 2010, criminals defrauded the Denmark of billions of dollars, thanks to flaws in Denmark’s carbon pricing models, and a loophole in Denmark’s GST system.

Did I mention – by a coincidence, politicians may be planning to raise Australia’s GST tax rate.

In my opinion, Australian politicians from the major parties, may be becoming far too cosy with big green. A recent poll in Australia shows nothing has changed, Australians are still very skeptical of the need for carbon pricing. But politicians seem to have different ideas. If the cross party negotiations lead to a seamless cross party climate consensus, carbon pricing will become very difficult for voters to dislodge as a policy option.

This developing Aussie democratic deficit on climate policy almost happened in America – but someone who is well known to readers of WUWT, made it his personal mission to ensure Americans retained their freedom to choose between alternative climate policy options.

What can Australians do about this developing carbon pricing nightmare? One option which might work is to write to your MP. Its easy to assume that all letters from voters end up in the circular filing cabinet, but I assure you this is not the case – ultimately politicians know they have to win votes to keep their seat. If enough people write, there’s a very real chance politicians will be spooked into listening to their constituents, rather than their party leader.

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Mick In The Hills
November 7, 2015 7:03 pm

Just as Turnbull committed to having a plebiscite about gay marriage, why not at the same time have a 2nd question about carbon (sic) taxing or trading?
Betcha he wouldn’t be game!
He already knows that the ordinary punters don’t sheepishly follow ‘elite’ positions, as he found out to his eternal dismay when he led the push for Oz to become a republic a few years back.
Here’s the thing – the ordinary Aussie folk out there in the ‘burbs are early to smell a political / public service scam when one is put under their noses, and they have now comprehensively rejected the whole “give us money to stop CO2” schtick at two national elections.
There just HAS to be a more enticing agenda for pollies in the whole AGW thing, because normally pollies can’t put enough distance between themselves and electorally rejected policies. Yet they keep coming back to this AGW thing like an alco to a port barrel.

bushbunny
Reply to  Mick In The Hills
November 8, 2015 1:40 am

I agree. But I have never trusted Turnbull. Director of Goldman Sachs, holder of carbon credits, no doubt invested in green energy, and that stupid email from Grench implementing Rudd in some petty election rort, you would think he would know emails can be fabricated.
Anyway I will complain about this and cancelling Bjorg 4 million grant too.
Probably prejudiced but he reminds me of my ex-husband, a plausible bullsh..artist.

George Tetley
Reply to  bushbunny
November 8, 2015 5:01 am

But didntyouno? “all husbands follow the wifes… leed “?

Reply to  Mick In The Hills
November 8, 2015 2:45 am

There just HAS to be a more enticing agenda for pollies in the whole AGW thing, because normally pollies can’t put enough distance between themselves and electorally rejected policies. Yet they keep coming back to this AGW thing like an alco to a port barrel.
Yes. It looks like comprehensive blackmail on a global scale.
And I threw all my tinfoil ghats away …

ghl
Reply to  Mick In The Hills
November 8, 2015 3:25 pm

PorT Barrel politics…I love it.

Thai Rogue
November 7, 2015 7:06 pm

Turncoat is shameless. It will be interesting to see what the Nationals do having required a written pledge by Turncoat to keep Abbott’s climate policies in return for their support. I’m Australian but I’m glad I don’t live there anymore.

Jason
Reply to  Thai Rogue
November 10, 2015 9:06 am

You are spot on. Yes prior to the spill motion to replace Tony Abbott there was an agreement between Turnbull’s backers and the National Party that Turnbull would not tinker with Abbott;s climate policies in return for their support. There is also Western Australian MP Dr Dennis Jenson, a climate skeptic, who was also vocal in his support for Turnbull when Abbott was replaced. Should Turnbull and Bishop betray us in Paris the Nationals should dissolve their support and Dr Dennis Jenson should resign for putting politics above his principles.
The worse thing is despite lagging support for so called climate action, both major political parties are ignoring the wishes of the people they are elected to serve. Yes Australia now needs an equivalent to the UKIP.

Marcus
November 7, 2015 7:14 pm

Career politicians truly are shameless !!! Disgusting…

Geckko
Reply to  Marcus
November 9, 2015 1:42 am

Turnbull is worse than a career politician, if you can believe it.
He is a vanity politician.

Leigh
November 7, 2015 7:31 pm

So our own politicians in a cross party deception appear to be about to stitch us all up……again!
Hunt the weasel in the chicken coup and Turnbul for different reasons is a loony tune save the planet global warmist of the worst extreme.
Like England, there are other partys more palateable to voters than what we are being offered by labor and now the liberals.
I’d suggest the nationals the liberals coalition partner, start looking for a more voter friendly partnership.
The greens the labor party and now the liberals are acting against the wishes of the majority of the population.
It may take a couple of elections but I believe the Australian people will turn on these fruit loops in our parliament that continue to ram a failed ideolygy down our throats.
A clear disdain for them was exibited at the last election when a party lead by Abbott ,won in a landslide victory, by vowing to remove a CO/2 tax in opposition to the global warming fairy story.

Robin.W.
November 7, 2015 7:33 pm

Thanks Eric. Very worrying. I see a lot of Kevin Rudd in Malcolm Turnbull!
The 2 photos at top have “out” over Turnbull and ” in ” over Abbott . Bit confusing.
Agenda 21 is now progressing in Oz. Foreign Minister Bishop signed the UN’s Sustainable development recently on our behalf. (That phrase sends shivers down my spine.)
Goodness knows what Turnbull will do in Paris. I think he’s going himself just like Rudd did in Copenhagen.
TTFN. Robin

oeman50
Reply to  Robin.W.
November 8, 2015 8:31 am

And maybe some Obama, as well?

a happy little debunker
November 7, 2015 7:39 pm

Decisions made behind closed doors, by big business in collusion with big green & big welfare & big union effecting the public in a manner already rejected by the electorate is just what is needed to ensure the public is on board with any and all changes to policy settings.
Revolution will follow.

Mike Restim
Reply to  a happy little debunker
November 8, 2015 3:45 am

That’s why we still have the 2A.

Bob Weber
November 7, 2015 7:43 pm

The “out” and “in” on the right mug shots?

Zeke
November 7, 2015 7:47 pm

“Its easy to assume that all letters from voters end up in the circular filing cabinet, but I assure you this is not the case – ultimately politicians know they have to win votes to keep their seat. If enough people write, there’s a very real chance politicians will be spooked into listening to their constituents, rather than their party leader.”
Eric Worrall is right, it only takes a few minutes to do the right thing!
Whenever I write my -40% republican rep a letter, I wonder why I don’t do it more often.
Not that Turnbull is 40%. Unless you are just so blessed by “six climate policy options at a special closed-door summit this week.”

Stephen Richards
Reply to  Zeke
November 8, 2015 1:32 am

But who can you threaten to vote for. ALL polis worldwide have their snouts is this massive financial trough.

Gerry, England
Reply to  Stephen Richards
November 8, 2015 3:52 am

That is the problem. The UK Climate Change Act was brought in by Labour but voted for by all but 3 MPs. The sham conservative government we have no has shown no interest in repealing it and is slowly closing our coal generation down – while not replacing it – and allowing heavy industry like steel to close down.

Zeke
Reply to  Stephen Richards
November 8, 2015 2:15 pm

It is not fully descriptive to call this “a massive financial trough,” though I agree with your views. What we are seeing in every English speaking nation is complete loyalty by the entire political class (right or left) to foreign interests. –For some this means Russia, some serve the UN, some prefer China (do you know where M. Strong is?), and some serve Germany which controls the European Commission anddominates Europe. They are sluts to any foreign interest. That is the view I hold. This is why we should all be watching UKIP/Nigel Farage, because this is a so-called third party which rose from 3% support to becoming the third largest party in the country in a short time, despite a wickedly hostile media.
Meanwhile back in the US, there are some good representatives and senators who have done a terrific job. It’s just that the national party is trying to cull out the conservatives. We have elected people who have repealed Obamacare 30 times, and introduced bills to spare states from EPA rules and keep their own coal plants functional according to their own energy needs. (Inhoffe).
If the GOP serves up a big nasty dog’s breakfast for the presidential nominee, I simply don’t vote for President. But local outcomes can be good. Cheers to all

alan
November 7, 2015 8:15 pm

whenever considering options at meetings, I always insisted that the first option to be considered was to do nothing. This is in part to ensure that if no decision was made, everyone was aware of the consequences (do nothing by default) but mainly because it was very often the preferred choice of options.
One hopes this is on the table for this new slogan-free debate

Craig
November 7, 2015 8:32 pm

A new party called ‘Australian Liberty Alliance’ will be standing candidates in the next federal election. This party was formed to bring commonsense back into politics and there a mountain of dissatisfied and upset liberal/conservative voters who Turnbull is pushing away.
The man is only there for one reason, himself and f### you Joe Public.

Leigh
Reply to  Craig
November 8, 2015 1:55 am

Craig, I and I would say a growing number are becoming more aware of this new party but it will have one problem.
It will not be able to stand in enough seats to do enough damage in the lower house but all will not be lost.
The senate voting system as it stands is any governments Achilles heel, if it could secure preferences from say Hanson or like minded partys or individuals it will cause massive headaches for who ever leads.

RobertBobbert GDQ
Reply to  Craig
November 8, 2015 4:05 am

And if the conservative parties split in any way then The Labor Party and the Greens can announce Party Time for the next decade. Or More.
This is a Guardian Article and why are people at WUWT so eager to believe anything that appears in that RAG. Mr Turnbull is obviously intent to do extra in this area but he has to win an election of the voting public. He has given his party room a pledge to remain in accord with party policy on this issue and, just as important, has a written pledge to his coalition partner,The National Party, not to get ahead or go out to fantasy land on this climate issue and other issues. If a Liberal/Conservative leader wins elections then they can begin to take the party more in the desired direction of the party leader. Mr Turnbull must abide by the words he gave to his party and his coalition partner that enabled him to chop down Mr Abbott.
Eric,
You have to come up with more compelling evidence to indicate that Mr Turnbull would be so blatantly stupid as to believe that his own party, and particularly The Nationals,would not see this breaking of an agreement as anything other than a gobsmacking breach of his word and would not result in a complete loss of faith in the coalition leader. And factional action in this area which is political dynamite presently in Austraila.
Malcolm Turnbull is fixed to this particular Direct Action policy and until he wins an election he must stick with it. Should he win an election then things may change but he will have to convince the Nationals (The Rural and Farming Party as a generalism) and they will take a whole lot of convincing and none of them came down in the last shower!
What is not a generalism is that the Guardian is a crock and on Climate Issues it is an even bigger Crock.
An equal crock being that A Conservative Alliance Party would have any effect at all in the major House of Representatives and a negligible one, or minor at best in The Senate. The current Opposition Leader Mr Shorten is running at 19% approval rating in polls (which unfortunately drive Aussie politics and got Mr Abbott the Chop) and is a gift to the current government yet people wish to distract from the poor job he and his opposition government are doing with nonsense of some Conservative voting uprising or swallowing pure rubbish from The Guardian.
Regards to Eric, Craig and all WUWT readers from The Land of The Kangaroo.

Leigh
Reply to  RobertBobbert GDQ
November 8, 2015 2:14 pm

Do you remember THE reason Abbott was elected leader of the liberal party all be it by one vote?
Turnbuls two fingered salute to party policy was why he was removed.
Turnbul is an investment banker. His public disclosure statement shows his share portfolio is still heavily exposed to that “industry”. Turnbul was a fund manager for Goldman Sachs, the architects of the “fairy dust” commodity carbon credits.
This time,Turnbul as prime minister will “lock” us in with no out clause, that is a fear that is fast becoming reality.
That the party would remove him again is of no consequence to him, it is mission accomplished.
Conspiracy?
Well Bishop isn’t just ticking all the boxes in the lead up to the Paris UN fund raiser, this judas in a dress is signing them!
Her and her boss, both trained lawyers of some note before politics are in step with the plan to burden this country with higher energy bills.
That will have little affect to their well to do lives that the people of the Australia will subsidies to all their graves….and we have to for that as well!
That simply would not have happened under Abbott.
All in preparation for her boss the smiling traitor to deliver the final blow.
It won’t as you suggest split the conservative party but it will probably cost them the next election to again sack a leader during its first term.
All I know is Turnbul as prime minister, is a far more accomplished threat to the conservatives and this country than Rudd ever was.

Jack
November 7, 2015 8:33 pm

Turnbull cannot govern without the National Party support and he has a written agreement with them over global warming policies.
Further, many Liberal party members are disgusted with Turnbull’s whiteanting of the leader, Tony Abbot. Turnbull, arrogantly, says who else can you vote for? Well there is a new party forming called the A.L.A. Don’t know anything about it, except the Liberals are scared enough to be deriding it already.
Turnbull is on te record as saying he has stopped listening to sceptics and that we shoul;d all follow the greens in case one day bad climate things happen. IDIOT.
he represents a wealthy suburb where one-upmanship is important. So any “cause”that can be adopted to show how sharing and caring they are is a social imperative. Don’t ask to share theirs though.
One of his dopey deep green frriends, made a lot of money.
The Greens wanted to shut down a woodchip plant in Tasmania that had passed all strict environmetal guidelines, state, federal and international, so they deliberately sabotaged the company by tying it up in facetious court battles.
When the company finally walked away from a multimillion dollar investment and shut down hundreds of jobs, this green scumbag bought the factory and tried to do some homecraft industry in the green delusion that it would keep people employed. The new green company folded in less than 12 months and hundreds of people had to leave the town to find work.
That is the sort of person Turnbull admires and listens to.

Craig
Reply to  Jack
November 7, 2015 9:58 pm

Jack, the ALA party has adopted policies that reflect Christian-Judeo values and such policies are not in the liberal/conservative manifesto (if it is, then the Turnbull party should stop lying about its credentials), as such, the party is about bringing common sense discussion back into the federal parliament and enact policies that benefit the majority of Australians and if a minority group don’t like it, well………feel free to bugger off.

Patrick
Reply to  Craig
November 7, 2015 10:20 pm

LOL…serial LOL. No chance mate not when Cadbury can file for “Halal” chocolate. Minorities rule!

Craig
Reply to  Craig
November 8, 2015 12:15 am

Lol, serious? Cadburys? Anything to turn a dollar!

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Craig
November 8, 2015 3:26 am

took a look at their webpage
some good..some bad
frankly..as much as I loathe the lib lab options..
nationals or independants are still better options
their use of LIBERTY is not quite right, when..
they want Mandatory enforced vaccination and are heavy on the judao side of christian
they still havent worked out their policies ffs.

Pete
Reply to  Jack
November 8, 2015 1:11 am

I once heard Turnbull say that the anti-climate change lobby was being run by the Koch bros. If he believes that particular conspiracy theory he isn’t quite as bright as he makes himself out to be. He did, though, recently mention that oil and coal would have to be part of the energy mix for the future and he has appointed a chief scientist who is a supported of nuclear energy. Turnbull has the unique ability to walk on both sides of the street at the same time and seems to lead everyone to believe he supports their view no matter what their view actually is. What he actually does will be the interesting thing.

metro70
Reply to  Pete
November 9, 2015 6:50 am

Turnbull has terrible judgment.
In the middle of a fraught election campaign in 2007, he tried to get John Howard to spend many millions in TPM on mad rainmaking technology [vetoed by CSIRO as having no scientific basis] —that a dodgy Russian had pitched to him.
He persuaded JH to spend $10million on it before it all hit the fan. MSM conveniently forgets it now of course.
All of his great friends and heroes are Labor rogues –some who consorted with criminals.
Turnbull was mightily impressed with the ‘magnificent Whitlam-esque scale’ of the Whitlam government’s economic and social destruction that has its terrible repercussions to this day.
MT backed Labor against Howard in 1998 with big donations. If he’d had his way there would never have been the 11 prosperous years of Howard/Costello for protection against the GFC.
He backed Rudd’s ETS [CPRS] when Roger Pielke Jr had done research work on it concluding that it had very little chance of working.
His view —recently expressed—is that the best thing for Australia and the world is for Communist China and democratic US to be absolutely equal in strength and capability- neither with an edge over the other.
The last time I heard that view was in reading about the Russian spies working in Evatt’s Foreign Affairs office – the US stopped sharing secrets with Australia because Evatt had that same view that everything would be all right so long as the Communists were allowed to ‘share’ for a level playing field.
And of course there was the Godwin Grech affair that did so much damage to the party.
IMO the Turnbull coup is a massive disaster for Australia, and probably became inevitable after Obama’s unprecedented meddling at the G20 in Brisbane.
TA was the only rational realist leader in the world—the one who would never make Australia commit economic suicide for CAGW hysteria or anything else—so he had to be ditched before Paris.

ChipMonk
November 7, 2015 8:41 pm

Does the Australian constitution have an Impeachment clause?

Patrick
Reply to  ChipMonk
November 7, 2015 9:59 pm

Think of the Simpsons episode where Homer is “accepted” by the “Stone Cutters” and he uses their “constitution” as a napkin. That is about it here in Aus.

Reply to  ChipMonk
November 8, 2015 12:25 am

No.

Nipfan
November 7, 2015 9:07 pm

“Does the Australian constitution have an Impeachment clause?”
Unfortunately not. The only thing that can happen if a party has the numbers in parliament is what happened to Abbott, the members getting so spooked that they change leaders. I have been a Coalition supporter for 40 years but as long as Turnbull is in charge they’ve lost me. I shudder to think how much damage he will be before we are rid of him. Think Obama or, more locally, Kevin Rudd.

Garth R N Wenck
November 7, 2015 9:11 pm

I am a very long term liberal party voter but I am proud to be the first to record that I will vote against any government that actively supports the AGW fraud. So far Turnbull has been doing a good job. It would be sad to see him desert his own team just as he did as a leader of the Australian Republican Movement .
Garth Wenck.

2soonold2latesmart
November 7, 2015 9:13 pm

Meanwhile, up here in the Great White North, our newly elected Liberal federal government is drooling about the return of the “Green Shift” they tried to foist on us a few years back.
http://bit.ly/1MEyDR4
And the newly elected (May 2015) Alberta NDP government is on the search for a “social license” so they can help the energy sector.
Stay tooned. 🙁

Patrick
November 7, 2015 9:53 pm

We will never see this in the Aussie MSN. Thank you to WUWT. I predicted this in 2013 when the LNP took power with Turncoat. The guy is a banker.

240turbo
November 7, 2015 9:54 pm

TurnBull always was and always will be a member of Goldman Sachs. He is the duly elected member for Goldman Sachs. He is only saying what New York instructs him to say.
regards

nevket240
November 7, 2015 9:58 pm

TurnBull always was and always will be a member of GoldMan Sachs. He is the duly elected member of GoldMan Sachs. He is only doing as instructed by New York.

November 7, 2015 10:08 pm

Reblogged this on Climatism and commented:
Writing letters of dissent to your local MP is effective as will be rejecting new PM Turnbull’s draconian climate agenda, at the by-election of former treasurer (and sceptic) Joe Hockey’s ‘North Sydney’ seat on December 5, 2015.
NB, Pro Carbon Tax/ETS and new PM MalcolmTurnbull is, “In”. Climate Sceptic and knifed PM, Tony Abbott is, “Out”.

Felflames
November 7, 2015 10:11 pm

Just to make things a bit clearer to non australians about our political parties.
The Liberal party is generally similar to the US Republicans , while the Labour party is closer to the Democrats.
The National party is a long term coalition partner of the Liberals, while the Greens lean more to supporting Labour.
So please don’t confuse our “Liberal party” Large “L” with liberals small “l”

Patrick
Reply to  Felflames
November 7, 2015 10:24 pm

Say what? There’s a “difference”? Ya jaggin me?

Aussiepete
November 7, 2015 11:08 pm

Turnbull promised transparency. That’s Polly-speak for closed door meetings with unelected shadowy persons driven by greed and self interest. Seems to be a worldwide problem. If they have the national interest at heart, why close the doors? Reminiscent of those fellow-travelers who won’t show us their workings on the grounds that “all you want to do is try and find something wrong with them.” With apology to Shakespeare, i say ” a pox on the whole damn lot of them”.

November 7, 2015 11:10 pm

Felflames,
The Liberals in Australia are well to the left of the Republicans in the US. The Labor Party is slightly left of the Liberals. The Nationals are Agrarian Socialists. The Greens are so far left they fell off the edge.

Chris Hanley
November 7, 2015 11:17 pm

Just as the Australian Labor [sic] Party no longer represents labour, the Liberal Party originally founded on classical liberal ideals of individual freedom is being shifted to the left.
Turnbull is not a classical liberal, he is a corporatist.

metro70
Reply to  Chris Hanley
November 9, 2015 7:07 am

His great political heroes are all Labor— Neville Wran–Lionel Murphy[ both of whom he claims were done wrong]–Jack Lang and Gough Whitlam—and he said he was determined be PM but didn’t know which party. He’d been trying to get preselection for Labor seats for years almost right up until he got Liberal preselection.
He’ll try not to frighten the horses to make sure he gets elected [I hope he doesn’t]—then we’ll get Labor policies from him.
He’ll do the bidding of Goldman Sachs , the international uber-rich Socialists and LW Australian big business and sell Australia out to the UN—IMO.

richard verney
November 7, 2015 11:45 pm

Eric
Just a small correction. UKIP got just under 4 million seats, but due to the ‘first past the post’ electoral system, they only got 1 MP elected to Westminster House of Commons.
In Scotland, the SNP (Scottish Nationalist Part) got slightly less votes than UKIP (about 3.6 million), and got some 58 MP s elected to the Westminster House of Commons.
UKIP are for scrapping the Climate Change Act, and stooping all subsidies for renewables. They are sceptic on Climate Change, and I suspect (but I am not sure) that they are in favour of fracking. The UK is thought to have substantial reserves of oil/gas that could be reclaimed by hydraulic fracking, but of course, the Greens are very much against that even though that would result in the UK lowering its CO2 emissions which windfarms and solar do not achieve.
It was a sad day for democracy when Abbott was ousted.
PS. There is a Lord Monckton video made about 9 months to a year ago wherein he predicted that Harper (the Canadian Prime Minister) would be got rid of, and attempts would be made to oust Abbott. This was very prophetic as matters have unfolded as he warned might happen. I might try and find a link since everyone should view this since one can see what our ‘political masters’ truly think of democracy, and how far we have got away from government by the people for the people. Government is neither by the people still less for the people. It is now government by an elite cabal for the benefit of the few similarly elite.

richard verney
Reply to  Eric Worrall
November 8, 2015 12:25 am

Eric
I am one of those people who consider that we do not have representative democracy, and feel disenfranchised by the political system in that there is no one political party that I like, and I can not bring myself to vote for the lesser of two evils.
I regret to say that I hold politicians in utter contempt, but if there was one politician that I wouldn’t mind sharing an evening with, it is Farage. It is refreshing to see a conviction politician and one who can cut through the cr*p and tell it as it is. I can imagine you had not simply an interesting exchange but also a good time.
I have watched some of the videos of his exchanges at the EU. They are eye opening, amusing and well worth a watch.
Talking about videos, I have linked below the video by Lord Monckton (made in September/October 2014) talking about the removal of Mr Abbott (and Mr Harper). I suspect that you have seen it before. It is very relevant to your post, and again well worth a watch. It says all one needs to know about democracy; the will of the people means nothing.

ralfellis
Reply to  Eric Worrall
November 8, 2015 1:46 am

This video is a good demonstration of the Liberal-Green attitude to parliamentary democracy.
This is the speech by Vacav Claus, the Czech president, in the EU parliament. He was calling for greater democracy within the EU, greater accountability to the electorate, and a willingness by the EU to accept criticism. And he was also calling for a viable opposition within the EU parliament, because a parliament without an opposition is a tyranny. As he said, he had lived under the Soviet one-party ‘parliament’, and it was simply a dictatorship.
And the reaction of EU parliamentarians to these pearls of wisdom, from a grand old sage with real political experience? They booed him and walked out. Yes, just like the Greens, the EU parliament wants a one-party state — we will be liberal and free, but only if you do exactly as we say….
The first booing is at : 2:00, and then at 4:50.

Evan Jones
Editor
Reply to  Eric Worrall
November 8, 2015 8:04 am

Yes. But they applauded at some of the right moments, too.
If we can just get through this transitional hump, we will have our Childhood’s End. “Though there be darkness, it shall be as the morning. And thou shalt be secure because there is hope.”

ralfellis
Reply to  Eric Worrall
November 8, 2015 10:08 am

>>Yes. But they applauded at some of the right moments, too.
The applause came from UKIP and Marie le Penn’s Front National, who are derided by the EU parliament and the BBC as being slightly to the right of Ghengis Khann. This the problem with the whole EU escapade – the vital opposition element are derided and abused at every opportunity.
Ralph

MarloweJ
Reply to  Eric Worrall
November 9, 2015 9:20 am

Nigel certainly tells it like it is and uses perfect British etiquette whilst he slices and dices. He is always great to watch. Do you have a link for that video Eric?

clive
Reply to  richard verney
November 8, 2015 3:12 pm

Lord Monckton exposes U.N. ‘agreement’ to establish world government
“Be afraid. Be very afraid. I have now read the late-October draft of the “agreement” that the U.N. will bounce all nations into ratifying at the climate conference in Paris at the end of this month. It is nothing less than a coup d’etat by the global governing elite. It is a charter for punishing prosperity, destroying democracy, finishing freedom and wasting the West.
It is not only the freedom of the people (in those countries that still retain it) that is now under direct and grievous threat. The freedom of all governments to govern as independent, sovereign powers in the interest of their peoples is about to be taken away forever.
The Paris “agreement” should be regarded by governments with at least as much caution as if it were called a “treaty.” The frank intent of the latest draft, now in my hands, is that the “agreement” should be at least as binding on the parties as a treaty.
The provisions for enforcement of the will of the new global governing authority over Western nations that the “agreement” brings into being are severe and potentially costly, damaging and even fatal to the very notion of independent, elected, national government.
The global-government ambition of the U.N., supported by most totalitarian regimes (who smell power at the expense of the Western hegemony) and by almost all Third-World countries (who smell Western money) is to establish a world government using the climate as the pretext.
This quote from Ottmar Edinhofer of the IPCC “But one must say clearly,that we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy…..This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore”
The word “government,” in the sense of a global governing power with real authority to impose laws and regulations, to collect pre-emptive taxes and fines, and to supervise and enforce compliance, appeared twice in the failed Copenhagen treaty draft of 2009.
The phrase “governing body,” which appeared in the February 2015 first draft of the Paris “agreement,” has been quietly dropped in favor of the cloaking acronym “CMA,” standing for “Conference of the parties serving as the Meeting of the parties to this Agreement.” In practice, this means the permanent secretariat, to which the “agreement” gives real global governing power in all but name.
The New World Order will enforce its will by a multitude of outrageous mechanisms that no democratic nation should endorse for a single instant. Not the least of these is the proposal to establish an international climate change court, craftily renamed a “tribunal” to make it seem less powerful than it will actually be. The text makes it plain that this “tribunal” will have powers against Western nations only. And they will be real powers, backed by what the draft agreement delicately calls “facilitation.” In plain English, this means enforcement.
The notion of a climate court was originally proposed in the Durban climate agreement four years ago, but, though not one of the 2,000 journalists present at the conference bothered to report that or any other provision in the text, I publicized it, and there was such an international outcry that that proposal, along with two-thirds of the entire negotiating text, had to be abandoned at 24 hours’ notice once the daylight was let in on it. Now it is back.
Every flea-bitten fly-speck of an island state gets the same vote as the United States. The Third-World countries that smell power and money – Western power and money – will drive this nonsense through, because the U.N. voting system tilts the decision-making heavily in their favor.
Mr. Obama, with his scientifically illiterate and viscerally anti-American administration, will stand alongside the Third World as it uses the climate treaty to knife the West. So will the vapid Trudeau Jr. in Canada, the profiteering Turbull (sic) in Australia, and of course all the countries of the dismal European tyranny-by-clerk, which has already succeeded in taking away democracy from all its satrapy states, including Britain. The U.N. wants globally the power the E.U. wields regionally. And, this time, it is going to get it.
After more than two decades of negotiation in various exotic locations (throughout which there has been no statistically significant global warming, and none whatever for almost 19 years), the word “option” appears no less than 259 times in the current Paris draft. “Option 1,” “Option 2,” etc., appear all the way through.
On past experience, this is a sign that the secretariat has been maneuvering to prevent agreement being reached on anything other than a decision to transfer executive and decision-making authority on all matters marked “option” to the secretariat.
It is an old dodge. After the statutory all-night-session, the negotiators, after due softening-up, will emerge with stubbly chins (and the men, too) to announce that they have agreed to transfer all power of decision-making on the “difficult” question of climate to the faceless, full-time secretariat.
Throughout the draft, a dangerous ratchet mechanism has been built in, by which the Western parties commit themselves to pay more and more and more of their taxpayers’ money to the secretariat. On past experience of the U.N., practically none of that money will ever reach any Third-World country. It will be trousered by the fat-cat bureaucrats.
All parties other than China, to which Mr. Obama unilaterally gave an exemption last December to prevent them from blowing the Paris treaty out of the water as they blew away the Copenhagen treaty in 2009, will be required to submit to humiliating “verification” of the extent of their compliance with their obligations to pay the secretariat vast sums, and to destroy their economies by an eventual total ban on burning coal, oil and gas.
To consent to this chilling document, which reinstates at a stroke the totalitarianism we all hoped had been destroyed when the Berlin Wall came down, and this time makes it global and hence inescapable, would be sheer lunacy. How can governments be so stupid as to encompass their own destruction as well as the destruction of their national economies and of their people’s freedom?
In parallel with my reading of the 50 pages of small print that are the blueprint for global totalitarian dictatorship, I have been looking very closely at the “science” that is the pretext for this coup d’etat by the classe politique. I have identified the central, ingenious, carefully concealed fraud underlying the false claim that there will be major global warming by the end of this century.
I shall be going to Paris. There, I shall describe the fraud, provide all necessary evidence of it, and leave it to lovers of freedom everywhere to take that evidence, complain to their national investigating and prosecuting authorities, and have the small clique of malevolent, hard-left, profiteering scientists behind the scare rounded up and put on trial.
One or two fraud prosecutions will be enough. All of the rest will rapidly scuttle for cover, and the climate scare will implode overnight.
For freedom cannot and will not be destroyed. The creatures who now sense absolute power within their grasp will find – yet again – that we, the people, are more powerful than they know.”
I realise that you have an “Agreement”with the Libs,but I and most “Australians”don’t trust Turnbull and the Libs.He wants an ETS.and so do the Banksters at Goldman Sachs.

MarloweJ
Reply to  clive
November 9, 2015 9:31 am

Better watch your back Clive!

hunter
November 7, 2015 11:48 pm

It sounds like an interesting process where the climate obsessed get to deny the majority vote, ignore those who disagree, get all the tax money they want, and come up with policies that enrich themselves and don’t work.

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