Are Aussie Politicians Plotting to Degrade Democratic Choice on Carbon Pricing?


Guest essay by Eric Worrall

It didn’t take long for Australia’s new Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull to tear up his promise to keep Abbott’s climate policies. Now Turnbull appears to have taken the next step.

Australians voted overwhelmingly against carbon pricing in the last Federal Election, but for some strange reason carbon pricing now seems to be back on the agenda again – except this time, the major Australian Political parties may be planning to present a seamless non choice to Australian voters.

According to The Guardian;

Leaders from business, welfare, the conservation movement, the electricity sector and the union movement have moved to try to fill Australia’s climate policy vacuum by starting a new slogan-free debate to help political parties find workable greenhouse policies.

Mirroring the Turnbull government’s tax debate, in which all policy options are back “on the table”, the groups commissioned major consultancies to present on six climate policy options at a special closed-door summit this week. They intend to publish the results in a back-to-the-drawing-board policy “primer” to be released next year.

Indicating the extent to which six years of bitter climate policy war have forced wide-ranging discussion outside the political arena, advisers to environment minister Greg Hunt, resources minister Josh Frydenberg and Labor environment spokesman Mark Butler, as well as advisers to state governments, all attended the workshop as observers.

Read more:

In Britain, this kind of shameless cross party policy rigging led to the rise of UKIP, which in the last UK election won over 3 million votes. In the UK, which has a “first past the post” election system, this wasn’t quite enough – it didn’t translate into a significant number of electoral victories, though UKIP came very close to reaching the critical threshold at which substantial wins become likely. But in Australia, which uses an alternate vote system, a voting block of this magnitude would likely have translated into a substantial number of electoral upsets.

Make no mistake, there is a potentially gigantic amount of money on the table. Quite apart from vast legitimate profits which can be made from slurping government green subsidies, or rent seeking off ordinary people’s electricity bills, carbon pricing also frequently opens new opportunities for criminals. In Denmark, in 2010, criminals defrauded the Denmark of billions of dollars, thanks to flaws in Denmark’s carbon pricing models, and a loophole in Denmark’s GST system.

Did I mention – by a coincidence, politicians may be planning to raise Australia’s GST tax rate.

In my opinion, Australian politicians from the major parties, may be becoming far too cosy with big green. A recent poll in Australia shows nothing has changed, Australians are still very skeptical of the need for carbon pricing. But politicians seem to have different ideas. If the cross party negotiations lead to a seamless cross party climate consensus, carbon pricing will become very difficult for voters to dislodge as a policy option.

This developing Aussie democratic deficit on climate policy almost happened in America – but someone who is well known to readers of WUWT, made it his personal mission to ensure Americans retained their freedom to choose between alternative climate policy options.

What can Australians do about this developing carbon pricing nightmare? One option which might work is to write to your MP. Its easy to assume that all letters from voters end up in the circular filing cabinet, but I assure you this is not the case – ultimately politicians know they have to win votes to keep their seat. If enough people write, there’s a very real chance politicians will be spooked into listening to their constituents, rather than their party leader.

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Mick In The Hills
November 7, 2015 7:03 pm

Just as Turnbull committed to having a plebiscite about gay marriage, why not at the same time have a 2nd question about carbon (sic) taxing or trading?
Betcha he wouldn’t be game!
He already knows that the ordinary punters don’t sheepishly follow ‘elite’ positions, as he found out to his eternal dismay when he led the push for Oz to become a republic a few years back.
Here’s the thing – the ordinary Aussie folk out there in the ‘burbs are early to smell a political / public service scam when one is put under their noses, and they have now comprehensively rejected the whole “give us money to stop CO2” schtick at two national elections.
There just HAS to be a more enticing agenda for pollies in the whole AGW thing, because normally pollies can’t put enough distance between themselves and electorally rejected policies. Yet they keep coming back to this AGW thing like an alco to a port barrel.

Reply to  Mick In The Hills
November 8, 2015 1:40 am

I agree. But I have never trusted Turnbull. Director of Goldman Sachs, holder of carbon credits, no doubt invested in green energy, and that stupid email from Grench implementing Rudd in some petty election rort, you would think he would know emails can be fabricated.
Anyway I will complain about this and cancelling Bjorg 4 million grant too.
Probably prejudiced but he reminds me of my ex-husband, a plausible bullsh..artist.

George Tetley
Reply to  bushbunny
November 8, 2015 5:01 am

But didntyouno? “all husbands follow the wifes… leed “?

Reply to  Mick In The Hills
November 8, 2015 2:45 am

There just HAS to be a more enticing agenda for pollies in the whole AGW thing, because normally pollies can’t put enough distance between themselves and electorally rejected policies. Yet they keep coming back to this AGW thing like an alco to a port barrel.
Yes. It looks like comprehensive blackmail on a global scale.
And I threw all my tinfoil ghats away …

Reply to  Mick In The Hills
November 8, 2015 3:25 pm

PorT Barrel politics…I love it.

Thai Rogue
November 7, 2015 7:06 pm

Turncoat is shameless. It will be interesting to see what the Nationals do having required a written pledge by Turncoat to keep Abbott’s climate policies in return for their support. I’m Australian but I’m glad I don’t live there anymore.

Reply to  Thai Rogue
November 10, 2015 9:06 am

You are spot on. Yes prior to the spill motion to replace Tony Abbott there was an agreement between Turnbull’s backers and the National Party that Turnbull would not tinker with Abbott;s climate policies in return for their support. There is also Western Australian MP Dr Dennis Jenson, a climate skeptic, who was also vocal in his support for Turnbull when Abbott was replaced. Should Turnbull and Bishop betray us in Paris the Nationals should dissolve their support and Dr Dennis Jenson should resign for putting politics above his principles.
The worse thing is despite lagging support for so called climate action, both major political parties are ignoring the wishes of the people they are elected to serve. Yes Australia now needs an equivalent to the UKIP.

November 7, 2015 7:14 pm

Career politicians truly are shameless !!! Disgusting…

Reply to  Marcus
November 9, 2015 1:42 am

Turnbull is worse than a career politician, if you can believe it.
He is a vanity politician.

November 7, 2015 7:31 pm

So our own politicians in a cross party deception appear to be about to stitch us all up……again!
Hunt the weasel in the chicken coup and Turnbul for different reasons is a loony tune save the planet global warmist of the worst extreme.
Like England, there are other partys more palateable to voters than what we are being offered by labor and now the liberals.
I’d suggest the nationals the liberals coalition partner, start looking for a more voter friendly partnership.
The greens the labor party and now the liberals are acting against the wishes of the majority of the population.
It may take a couple of elections but I believe the Australian people will turn on these fruit loops in our parliament that continue to ram a failed ideolygy down our throats.
A clear disdain for them was exibited at the last election when a party lead by Abbott ,won in a landslide victory, by vowing to remove a CO/2 tax in opposition to the global warming fairy story.

November 7, 2015 7:33 pm

Thanks Eric. Very worrying. I see a lot of Kevin Rudd in Malcolm Turnbull!
The 2 photos at top have “out” over Turnbull and ” in ” over Abbott . Bit confusing.
Agenda 21 is now progressing in Oz. Foreign Minister Bishop signed the UN’s Sustainable development recently on our behalf. (That phrase sends shivers down my spine.)
Goodness knows what Turnbull will do in Paris. I think he’s going himself just like Rudd did in Copenhagen.
TTFN. Robin

Reply to  Robin.W.
November 8, 2015 8:31 am

And maybe some Obama, as well?

a happy little debunker
November 7, 2015 7:39 pm

Decisions made behind closed doors, by big business in collusion with big green & big welfare & big union effecting the public in a manner already rejected by the electorate is just what is needed to ensure the public is on board with any and all changes to policy settings.
Revolution will follow.

Mike Restim
Reply to  a happy little debunker
November 8, 2015 3:45 am

That’s why we still have the 2A.

Bob Weber
November 7, 2015 7:43 pm

The “out” and “in” on the right mug shots?

November 7, 2015 7:47 pm

“Its easy to assume that all letters from voters end up in the circular filing cabinet, but I assure you this is not the case – ultimately politicians know they have to win votes to keep their seat. If enough people write, there’s a very real chance politicians will be spooked into listening to their constituents, rather than their party leader.”
Eric Worrall is right, it only takes a few minutes to do the right thing!
Whenever I write my -40% republican rep a letter, I wonder why I don’t do it more often.
Not that Turnbull is 40%. Unless you are just so blessed by “six climate policy options at a special closed-door summit this week.”

Stephen Richards
Reply to  Zeke
November 8, 2015 1:32 am

But who can you threaten to vote for. ALL polis worldwide have their snouts is this massive financial trough.

Gerry, England
Reply to  Stephen Richards
November 8, 2015 3:52 am

That is the problem. The UK Climate Change Act was brought in by Labour but voted for by all but 3 MPs. The sham conservative government we have no has shown no interest in repealing it and is slowly closing our coal generation down – while not replacing it – and allowing heavy industry like steel to close down.

Reply to  Stephen Richards
November 8, 2015 2:15 pm

It is not fully descriptive to call this “a massive financial trough,” though I agree with your views. What we are seeing in every English speaking nation is complete loyalty by the entire political class (right or left) to foreign interests. –For some this means Russia, some serve the UN, some prefer China (do you know where M. Strong is?), and some serve Germany which controls the European Commission anddominates Europe. They are sluts to any foreign interest. That is the view I hold. This is why we should all be watching UKIP/Nigel Farage, because this is a so-called third party which rose from 3% support to becoming the third largest party in the country in a short time, despite a wickedly hostile media.
Meanwhile back in the US, there are some good representatives and senators who have done a terrific job. It’s just that the national party is trying to cull out the conservatives. We have elected people who have repealed Obamacare 30 times, and introduced bills to spare states from EPA rules and keep their own coal plants functional according to their own energy needs. (Inhoffe).
If the GOP serves up a big nasty dog’s breakfast for the presidential nominee, I simply don’t vote for President. But local outcomes can be good. Cheers to all

November 7, 2015 8:15 pm

whenever considering options at meetings, I always insisted that the first option to be considered was to do nothing. This is in part to ensure that if no decision was made, everyone was aware of the consequences (do nothing by default) but mainly because it was very often the preferred choice of options.
One hopes this is on the table for this new slogan-free debate

November 7, 2015 8:32 pm

A new party called ‘Australian Liberty Alliance’ will be standing candidates in the next federal election. This party was formed to bring commonsense back into politics and there a mountain of dissatisfied and upset liberal/conservative voters who Turnbull is pushing away.
The man is only there for one reason, himself and f### you Joe Public.

Reply to  Craig
November 8, 2015 1:55 am

Craig, I and I would say a growing number are becoming more aware of this new party but it will have one problem.
It will not be able to stand in enough seats to do enough damage in the lower house but all will not be lost.
The senate voting system as it stands is any governments Achilles heel, if it could secure preferences from say Hanson or like minded partys or individuals it will cause massive headaches for who ever leads.

RobertBobbert GDQ
Reply to  Craig
November 8, 2015 4:05 am

And if the conservative parties split in any way then The Labor Party and the Greens can announce Party Time for the next decade. Or More.
This is a Guardian Article and why are people at WUWT so eager to believe anything that appears in that RAG. Mr Turnbull is obviously intent to do extra in this area but he has to win an election of the voting public. He has given his party room a pledge to remain in accord with party policy on this issue and, just as important, has a written pledge to his coalition partner,The National Party, not to get ahead or go out to fantasy land on this climate issue and other issues. If a Liberal/Conservative leader wins elections then they can begin to take the party more in the desired direction of the party leader. Mr Turnbull must abide by the words he gave to his party and his coalition partner that enabled him to chop down Mr Abbott.
You have to come up with more compelling evidence to indicate that Mr Turnbull would be so blatantly stupid as to believe that his own party, and particularly The Nationals,would not see this breaking of an agreement as anything other than a gobsmacking breach of his word and would not result in a complete loss of faith in the coalition leader. And factional action in this area which is political dynamite presently in Austraila.
Malcolm Turnbull is fixed to this particular Direct Action policy and until he wins an election he must stick with it. Should he win an election then things may change but he will have to convince the Nationals (The Rural and Farming Party as a generalism) and they will take a whole lot of convincing and none of them came down in the last shower!
What is not a generalism is that the Guardian is a crock and on Climate Issues it is an even bigger Crock.
An equal crock being that A Conservative Alliance Party would have any effect at all in the major House of Representatives and a negligible one, or minor at best in The Senate. The current Opposition Leader Mr Shorten is running at 19% approval rating in polls (which unfortunately drive Aussie politics and got Mr Abbott the Chop) and is a gift to the current government yet people wish to distract from the poor job he and his opposition government are doing with nonsense of some Conservative voting uprising or swallowing pure rubbish from The Guardian.
Regards to Eric, Craig and all WUWT readers from The Land of The Kangaroo.

Reply to  RobertBobbert GDQ
November 8, 2015 2:14 pm

Do you remember THE reason Abbott was elected leader of the liberal party all be it by one vote?
Turnbuls two fingered salute to party policy was why he was removed.
Turnbul is an investment banker. His public disclosure statement shows his share portfolio is still heavily exposed to that “industry”. Turnbul was a fund manager for Goldman Sachs, the architects of the “fairy dust” commodity carbon credits.
This time,Turnbul as prime minister will “lock” us in with no out clause, that is a fear that is fast becoming reality.
That the party would remove him again is of no consequence to him, it is mission accomplished.
Well Bishop isn’t just ticking all the boxes in the lead up to the Paris UN fund raiser, this judas in a dress is signing them!
Her and her boss, both trained lawyers of some note before politics are in step with the plan to burden this country with higher energy bills.
That will have little affect to their well to do lives that the people of the Australia will subsidies to all their graves….and we have to for that as well!
That simply would not have happened under Abbott.
All in preparation for her boss the smiling traitor to deliver the final blow.
It won’t as you suggest split the conservative party but it will probably cost them the next election to again sack a leader during its first term.
All I know is Turnbul as prime minister, is a far more accomplished threat to the conservatives and this country than Rudd ever was.

November 7, 2015 8:33 pm

Turnbull cannot govern without the National Party support and he has a written agreement with them over global warming policies.
Further, many Liberal party members are disgusted with Turnbull’s whiteanting of the leader, Tony Abbot. Turnbull, arrogantly, says who else can you vote for? Well there is a new party forming called the A.L.A. Don’t know anything about it, except the Liberals are scared enough to be deriding it already.
Turnbull is on te record as saying he has stopped listening to sceptics and that we shoul;d all follow the greens in case one day bad climate things happen. IDIOT.
he represents a wealthy suburb where one-upmanship is important. So any “cause”that can be adopted to show how sharing and caring they are is a social imperative. Don’t ask to share theirs though.
One of his dopey deep green frriends, made a lot of money.
The Greens wanted to shut down a woodchip plant in Tasmania that had passed all strict environmetal guidelines, state, federal and international, so they deliberately sabotaged the company by tying it up in facetious court battles.
When the company finally walked away from a multimillion dollar investment and shut down hundreds of jobs, this green scumbag bought the factory and tried to do some homecraft industry in the green delusion that it would keep people employed. The new green company folded in less than 12 months and hundreds of people had to leave the town to find work.
That is the sort of person Turnbull admires and listens to.

Reply to  Jack
November 7, 2015 9:58 pm

Jack, the ALA party has adopted policies that reflect Christian-Judeo values and such policies are not in the liberal/conservative manifesto (if it is, then the Turnbull party should stop lying about its credentials), as such, the party is about bringing common sense discussion back into the federal parliament and enact policies that benefit the majority of Australians and if a minority group don’t like it, well………feel free to bugger off.

Reply to  Craig
November 7, 2015 10:20 pm

LOL…serial LOL. No chance mate not when Cadbury can file for “Halal” chocolate. Minorities rule!

Reply to  Craig
November 8, 2015 12:15 am

Lol, serious? Cadburys? Anything to turn a dollar!

Reply to  Craig
November 8, 2015 3:26 am

took a look at their webpage
some good..some bad much as I loathe the lib lab options..
nationals or independants are still better options
their use of LIBERTY is not quite right, when..
they want Mandatory enforced vaccination and are heavy on the judao side of christian
they still havent worked out their policies ffs.

Reply to  Jack
November 8, 2015 1:11 am

I once heard Turnbull say that the anti-climate change lobby was being run by the Koch bros. If he believes that particular conspiracy theory he isn’t quite as bright as he makes himself out to be. He did, though, recently mention that oil and coal would have to be part of the energy mix for the future and he has appointed a chief scientist who is a supported of nuclear energy. Turnbull has the unique ability to walk on both sides of the street at the same time and seems to lead everyone to believe he supports their view no matter what their view actually is. What he actually does will be the interesting thing.

Reply to  Pete
November 9, 2015 6:50 am

Turnbull has terrible judgment.
In the middle of a fraught election campaign in 2007, he tried to get John Howard to spend many millions in TPM on mad rainmaking technology [vetoed by CSIRO as having no scientific basis] —that a dodgy Russian had pitched to him.
He persuaded JH to spend $10million on it before it all hit the fan. MSM conveniently forgets it now of course.
All of his great friends and heroes are Labor rogues –some who consorted with criminals.
Turnbull was mightily impressed with the ‘magnificent Whitlam-esque scale’ of the Whitlam government’s economic and social destruction that has its terrible repercussions to this day.
MT backed Labor against Howard in 1998 with big donations. If he’d had his way there would never have been the 11 prosperous years of Howard/Costello for protection against the GFC.
He backed Rudd’s ETS [CPRS] when Roger Pielke Jr had done research work on it concluding that it had very little chance of working.
His view —recently expressed—is that the best thing for Australia and the world is for Communist China and democratic US to be absolutely equal in strength and capability- neither with an edge over the other.
The last time I heard that view was in reading about the Russian spies working in Evatt’s Foreign Affairs office – the US stopped sharing secrets with Australia because Evatt had that same view that everything would be all right so long as the Communists were allowed to ‘share’ for a level playing field.
And of course there was the Godwin Grech affair that did so much damage to the party.
IMO the Turnbull coup is a massive disaster for Australia, and probably became inevitable after Obama’s unprecedented meddling at the G20 in Brisbane.
TA was the only rational realist leader in the world—the one who would never make Australia commit economic suicide for CAGW hysteria or anything else—so he had to be ditched before Paris.

November 7, 2015 8:41 pm

Does the Australian constitution have an Impeachment clause?

Reply to  ChipMonk
November 7, 2015 9:59 pm

Think of the Simpsons episode where Homer is “accepted” by the “Stone Cutters” and he uses their “constitution” as a napkin. That is about it here in Aus.

Reply to  ChipMonk
November 8, 2015 12:25 am


November 7, 2015 9:07 pm

“Does the Australian constitution have an Impeachment clause?”
Unfortunately not. The only thing that can happen if a party has the numbers in parliament is what happened to Abbott, the members getting so spooked that they change leaders. I have been a Coalition supporter for 40 years but as long as Turnbull is in charge they’ve lost me. I shudder to think how much damage he will be before we are rid of him. Think Obama or, more locally, Kevin Rudd.

Garth R N Wenck
November 7, 2015 9:11 pm

I am a very long term liberal party voter but I am proud to be the first to record that I will vote against any government that actively supports the AGW fraud. So far Turnbull has been doing a good job. It would be sad to see him desert his own team just as he did as a leader of the Australian Republican Movement .
Garth Wenck.

November 7, 2015 9:13 pm

Meanwhile, up here in the Great White North, our newly elected Liberal federal government is drooling about the return of the “Green Shift” they tried to foist on us a few years back.
And the newly elected (May 2015) Alberta NDP government is on the search for a “social license” so they can help the energy sector.
Stay tooned. 🙁

November 7, 2015 9:53 pm

We will never see this in the Aussie MSN. Thank you to WUWT. I predicted this in 2013 when the LNP took power with Turncoat. The guy is a banker.

November 7, 2015 9:54 pm

TurnBull always was and always will be a member of Goldman Sachs. He is the duly elected member for Goldman Sachs. He is only saying what New York instructs him to say.

November 7, 2015 9:58 pm

TurnBull always was and always will be a member of GoldMan Sachs. He is the duly elected member of GoldMan Sachs. He is only doing as instructed by New York.

November 7, 2015 10:08 pm

Reblogged this on Climatism and commented:
Writing letters of dissent to your local MP is effective as will be rejecting new PM Turnbull’s draconian climate agenda, at the by-election of former treasurer (and sceptic) Joe Hockey’s ‘North Sydney’ seat on December 5, 2015.
NB, Pro Carbon Tax/ETS and new PM MalcolmTurnbull is, “In”. Climate Sceptic and knifed PM, Tony Abbott is, “Out”.

November 7, 2015 10:11 pm

Just to make things a bit clearer to non australians about our political parties.
The Liberal party is generally similar to the US Republicans , while the Labour party is closer to the Democrats.
The National party is a long term coalition partner of the Liberals, while the Greens lean more to supporting Labour.
So please don’t confuse our “Liberal party” Large “L” with liberals small “l”

Reply to  Felflames
November 7, 2015 10:24 pm

Say what? There’s a “difference”? Ya jaggin me?

November 7, 2015 11:08 pm

Turnbull promised transparency. That’s Polly-speak for closed door meetings with unelected shadowy persons driven by greed and self interest. Seems to be a worldwide problem. If they have the national interest at heart, why close the doors? Reminiscent of those fellow-travelers who won’t show us their workings on the grounds that “all you want to do is try and find something wrong with them.” With apology to Shakespeare, i say ” a pox on the whole damn lot of them”.

November 7, 2015 11:10 pm

The Liberals in Australia are well to the left of the Republicans in the US. The Labor Party is slightly left of the Liberals. The Nationals are Agrarian Socialists. The Greens are so far left they fell off the edge.

Chris Hanley
November 7, 2015 11:17 pm

Just as the Australian Labor [sic] Party no longer represents labour, the Liberal Party originally founded on classical liberal ideals of individual freedom is being shifted to the left.
Turnbull is not a classical liberal, he is a corporatist.

Reply to  Chris Hanley
November 9, 2015 7:07 am

His great political heroes are all Labor— Neville Wran–Lionel Murphy[ both of whom he claims were done wrong]–Jack Lang and Gough Whitlam—and he said he was determined be PM but didn’t know which party. He’d been trying to get preselection for Labor seats for years almost right up until he got Liberal preselection.
He’ll try not to frighten the horses to make sure he gets elected [I hope he doesn’t]—then we’ll get Labor policies from him.
He’ll do the bidding of Goldman Sachs , the international uber-rich Socialists and LW Australian big business and sell Australia out to the UN—IMO.

richard verney
November 7, 2015 11:45 pm

Just a small correction. UKIP got just under 4 million seats, but due to the ‘first past the post’ electoral system, they only got 1 MP elected to Westminster House of Commons.
In Scotland, the SNP (Scottish Nationalist Part) got slightly less votes than UKIP (about 3.6 million), and got some 58 MP s elected to the Westminster House of Commons.
UKIP are for scrapping the Climate Change Act, and stooping all subsidies for renewables. They are sceptic on Climate Change, and I suspect (but I am not sure) that they are in favour of fracking. The UK is thought to have substantial reserves of oil/gas that could be reclaimed by hydraulic fracking, but of course, the Greens are very much against that even though that would result in the UK lowering its CO2 emissions which windfarms and solar do not achieve.
It was a sad day for democracy when Abbott was ousted.
PS. There is a Lord Monckton video made about 9 months to a year ago wherein he predicted that Harper (the Canadian Prime Minister) would be got rid of, and attempts would be made to oust Abbott. This was very prophetic as matters have unfolded as he warned might happen. I might try and find a link since everyone should view this since one can see what our ‘political masters’ truly think of democracy, and how far we have got away from government by the people for the people. Government is neither by the people still less for the people. It is now government by an elite cabal for the benefit of the few similarly elite.

richard verney
Reply to  Eric Worrall
November 8, 2015 12:25 am

I am one of those people who consider that we do not have representative democracy, and feel disenfranchised by the political system in that there is no one political party that I like, and I can not bring myself to vote for the lesser of two evils.
I regret to say that I hold politicians in utter contempt, but if there was one politician that I wouldn’t mind sharing an evening with, it is Farage. It is refreshing to see a conviction politician and one who can cut through the cr*p and tell it as it is. I can imagine you had not simply an interesting exchange but also a good time.
I have watched some of the videos of his exchanges at the EU. They are eye opening, amusing and well worth a watch.
Talking about videos, I have linked below the video by Lord Monckton (made in September/October 2014) talking about the removal of Mr Abbott (and Mr Harper). I suspect that you have seen it before. It is very relevant to your post, and again well worth a watch. It says all one needs to know about democracy; the will of the people means nothing.

Reply to  Eric Worrall
November 8, 2015 1:46 am

This video is a good demonstration of the Liberal-Green attitude to parliamentary democracy.
This is the speech by Vacav Claus, the Czech president, in the EU parliament. He was calling for greater democracy within the EU, greater accountability to the electorate, and a willingness by the EU to accept criticism. And he was also calling for a viable opposition within the EU parliament, because a parliament without an opposition is a tyranny. As he said, he had lived under the Soviet one-party ‘parliament’, and it was simply a dictatorship.
And the reaction of EU parliamentarians to these pearls of wisdom, from a grand old sage with real political experience? They booed him and walked out. Yes, just like the Greens, the EU parliament wants a one-party state — we will be liberal and free, but only if you do exactly as we say….
The first booing is at : 2:00, and then at 4:50.

Evan Jones
Reply to  Eric Worrall
November 8, 2015 8:04 am

Yes. But they applauded at some of the right moments, too.
If we can just get through this transitional hump, we will have our Childhood’s End. “Though there be darkness, it shall be as the morning. And thou shalt be secure because there is hope.”

Reply to  Eric Worrall
November 8, 2015 10:08 am

>>Yes. But they applauded at some of the right moments, too.
The applause came from UKIP and Marie le Penn’s Front National, who are derided by the EU parliament and the BBC as being slightly to the right of Ghengis Khann. This the problem with the whole EU escapade – the vital opposition element are derided and abused at every opportunity.

Reply to  Eric Worrall
November 9, 2015 9:20 am

Nigel certainly tells it like it is and uses perfect British etiquette whilst he slices and dices. He is always great to watch. Do you have a link for that video Eric?

Reply to  richard verney
November 8, 2015 3:12 pm

Lord Monckton exposes U.N. ‘agreement’ to establish world government
“Be afraid. Be very afraid. I have now read the late-October draft of the “agreement” that the U.N. will bounce all nations into ratifying at the climate conference in Paris at the end of this month. It is nothing less than a coup d’etat by the global governing elite. It is a charter for punishing prosperity, destroying democracy, finishing freedom and wasting the West.
It is not only the freedom of the people (in those countries that still retain it) that is now under direct and grievous threat. The freedom of all governments to govern as independent, sovereign powers in the interest of their peoples is about to be taken away forever.
The Paris “agreement” should be regarded by governments with at least as much caution as if it were called a “treaty.” The frank intent of the latest draft, now in my hands, is that the “agreement” should be at least as binding on the parties as a treaty.
The provisions for enforcement of the will of the new global governing authority over Western nations that the “agreement” brings into being are severe and potentially costly, damaging and even fatal to the very notion of independent, elected, national government.
The global-government ambition of the U.N., supported by most totalitarian regimes (who smell power at the expense of the Western hegemony) and by almost all Third-World countries (who smell Western money) is to establish a world government using the climate as the pretext.
This quote from Ottmar Edinhofer of the IPCC “But one must say clearly,that we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy…..This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore”
The word “government,” in the sense of a global governing power with real authority to impose laws and regulations, to collect pre-emptive taxes and fines, and to supervise and enforce compliance, appeared twice in the failed Copenhagen treaty draft of 2009.
The phrase “governing body,” which appeared in the February 2015 first draft of the Paris “agreement,” has been quietly dropped in favor of the cloaking acronym “CMA,” standing for “Conference of the parties serving as the Meeting of the parties to this Agreement.” In practice, this means the permanent secretariat, to which the “agreement” gives real global governing power in all but name.
The New World Order will enforce its will by a multitude of outrageous mechanisms that no democratic nation should endorse for a single instant. Not the least of these is the proposal to establish an international climate change court, craftily renamed a “tribunal” to make it seem less powerful than it will actually be. The text makes it plain that this “tribunal” will have powers against Western nations only. And they will be real powers, backed by what the draft agreement delicately calls “facilitation.” In plain English, this means enforcement.
The notion of a climate court was originally proposed in the Durban climate agreement four years ago, but, though not one of the 2,000 journalists present at the conference bothered to report that or any other provision in the text, I publicized it, and there was such an international outcry that that proposal, along with two-thirds of the entire negotiating text, had to be abandoned at 24 hours’ notice once the daylight was let in on it. Now it is back.
Every flea-bitten fly-speck of an island state gets the same vote as the United States. The Third-World countries that smell power and money – Western power and money – will drive this nonsense through, because the U.N. voting system tilts the decision-making heavily in their favor.
Mr. Obama, with his scientifically illiterate and viscerally anti-American administration, will stand alongside the Third World as it uses the climate treaty to knife the West. So will the vapid Trudeau Jr. in Canada, the profiteering Turbull (sic) in Australia, and of course all the countries of the dismal European tyranny-by-clerk, which has already succeeded in taking away democracy from all its satrapy states, including Britain. The U.N. wants globally the power the E.U. wields regionally. And, this time, it is going to get it.
After more than two decades of negotiation in various exotic locations (throughout which there has been no statistically significant global warming, and none whatever for almost 19 years), the word “option” appears no less than 259 times in the current Paris draft. “Option 1,” “Option 2,” etc., appear all the way through.
On past experience, this is a sign that the secretariat has been maneuvering to prevent agreement being reached on anything other than a decision to transfer executive and decision-making authority on all matters marked “option” to the secretariat.
It is an old dodge. After the statutory all-night-session, the negotiators, after due softening-up, will emerge with stubbly chins (and the men, too) to announce that they have agreed to transfer all power of decision-making on the “difficult” question of climate to the faceless, full-time secretariat.
Throughout the draft, a dangerous ratchet mechanism has been built in, by which the Western parties commit themselves to pay more and more and more of their taxpayers’ money to the secretariat. On past experience of the U.N., practically none of that money will ever reach any Third-World country. It will be trousered by the fat-cat bureaucrats.
All parties other than China, to which Mr. Obama unilaterally gave an exemption last December to prevent them from blowing the Paris treaty out of the water as they blew away the Copenhagen treaty in 2009, will be required to submit to humiliating “verification” of the extent of their compliance with their obligations to pay the secretariat vast sums, and to destroy their economies by an eventual total ban on burning coal, oil and gas.
To consent to this chilling document, which reinstates at a stroke the totalitarianism we all hoped had been destroyed when the Berlin Wall came down, and this time makes it global and hence inescapable, would be sheer lunacy. How can governments be so stupid as to encompass their own destruction as well as the destruction of their national economies and of their people’s freedom?
In parallel with my reading of the 50 pages of small print that are the blueprint for global totalitarian dictatorship, I have been looking very closely at the “science” that is the pretext for this coup d’etat by the classe politique. I have identified the central, ingenious, carefully concealed fraud underlying the false claim that there will be major global warming by the end of this century.
I shall be going to Paris. There, I shall describe the fraud, provide all necessary evidence of it, and leave it to lovers of freedom everywhere to take that evidence, complain to their national investigating and prosecuting authorities, and have the small clique of malevolent, hard-left, profiteering scientists behind the scare rounded up and put on trial.
One or two fraud prosecutions will be enough. All of the rest will rapidly scuttle for cover, and the climate scare will implode overnight.
For freedom cannot and will not be destroyed. The creatures who now sense absolute power within their grasp will find – yet again – that we, the people, are more powerful than they know.”
I realise that you have an “Agreement”with the Libs,but I and most “Australians”don’t trust Turnbull and the Libs.He wants an ETS.and so do the Banksters at Goldman Sachs.

Reply to  clive
November 9, 2015 9:31 am

Better watch your back Clive!

November 7, 2015 11:48 pm

It sounds like an interesting process where the climate obsessed get to deny the majority vote, ignore those who disagree, get all the tax money they want, and come up with policies that enrich themselves and don’t work.

richard verney
November 7, 2015 11:51 pm

Further to my above post, I attach a reference to The Guardian that states: “Johnson was one of 3,881,129 people to put a cross on the ballot paper in support of Farage’s Ukip party, a sizeable show of support that managed to amass one solitary MP”
So UK got a shade under 3.9 million votes, with just 1 MP returned to Westminster.
Which notes that “UKIP has won a 13% vote share in the election and has one MP, Douglas Carswell, who held his Clacton seat”

Gerry, England
Reply to  richard verney
November 8, 2015 3:59 am

UKIP votes stopped the nightmare of Milliband but the alternative of Cameron was one where many had to hold their nose and vote Tory. I have never and will never vote for his party. In many areas one party is so entrenched voting is a bit pointless, however, in my area and many others where the Tories increased their majority the actual swing was to UKIP. Few have commented on this.

richard verney
Reply to  Gerry, England
November 8, 2015 5:19 am

You are right about the swing. In my opinion there was a lot of vote churning.
Most commentators suggest that the Liberals switched votes to Conservative. but that is a ridiculous proposition. If Liberals were disappointed with their party not holding in check the Conservatives and giving into the hateful Conservatives on tuition fees etc, why would they vote Conservative?
What happened is this: The Liberal vote went to Labour. Much of the traditional Labour vote went to UKIP. And UKIP would have done very well but for the SNP/Milliband scare, which persuaded some people who previously voted UKIP and would have done so again, to vote Conservative.
So the Conservatives picked up quite a bit of the UKIP vote but only because of the SNP/Milliband scare.
Labour did extremely badly since it gained the Liberal vote, but lost a lot of traditional voters to UKIP. Those traditional voters are not likely to return with Corbyn at the helm since he is does not represent the aspirational blue collar worker. He has little to offer except to the client state (those on welfare), and hard line union activists.
We will have to see what happens at Oldham, but UKIP should be in with a chance of winning that by election since the voters that temporarily sided with the Conservatives to stop a SNP/Milliband coalition, are likely to now return to UKIP. This by election will test both UKIP and Labour.

Evan Jones
Reply to  richard verney
November 8, 2015 8:20 am

In strictly political terms, claiming the “debate” is “settled” is unviable. One might as well claim the sun does not shine and the wind does not blow. The debate concerning how much warming we have seen and can expect is going on all around them, as they speak, both in the scientific literature. In the work of Anthony’s team (and I am proud to be his mudslogger), for that matter. Enough of the public thinks there is a debate, and many those who don’t can be convinced after hearing from both sides.
The way I see it, global warming is real and mostly anthropogenic. (Cue the “97%” theme song.) But it is simply not as much as projected, diverges severely from the IPCC/CMIP model projections, and has had net beneficial effects — so far. The historical data is flawed, and the adjustments are worse. Future warming projections do not match even the least favorable of the surface metrics.
It occurs to me that our team’s paper would be included with the papers (98% or whatever) that support the general thesis of global warming in general. And that is why those percentages represent a false dichotomy. Nearly all serious skeptics (Lindzen, McIntyre, Anthony, Spencer, Christy, Curry, etc., etc.) are lukewarmers and part of that good old 97%.
I think we can win the scientific argument, and when (and if) we do, the politicians will follow on as they always have done and will do, the beastly little horrors.

November 7, 2015 11:56 pm

I wrote this email, which was prompted by Eric’s article, to my North Queensland Federal Liberal MP today .
Dear Warren
It was with dismay that I watched Mr Turnbull replace Mr Abbott and feel that this plan was carried out before Canning, so that he was in place for Paris where, I believe that, like Rudd, he may attend along with the other 50,000 delegates!
The “thanks for voting but we’ll take it from here” attitude of Turnbull et al will surely please the UN and the ABC but it has displeased many.
I have voted ALP all my life, up to and including Rudd One, but it was Copenhagen and the Global Warming nonsense, about which I now know a great deal, that changed me to a Liberal voter.
Now I find that Minister Hunt has stopped the investigation into BOM’s tampering with the temperature record and Minister Bishop has signed the UN’s “Sustainable Development”plan. This phrase, with its sinister implications in UN Agenda 21, sends shivers down my spine.
We must not sign this Paris agreement unless there is a get out clause or we’ll be on the road to a totalitarian world government, plus the West will be handing over USD100 billion a year to despots and dictators in the Third World as “compensation” for what we, in the developed world, have supposedly done to warm the planet by a trivial 0.8C since the end of the Little Ice Age.
If you look at the Holocene (the last 11,000 yrs) you can plainly see we are at the lower end of the temperature trend for that time scale and nothing at all unusual is happening with the climate. There has been zero global warming according to the Satellites for almost 20 years now, during which time over a third of man’s contribution to atmospheric CO2 has occurred.
Mr Turnbull is a wolf in sheep’s clothing I’m afraid and I’ve no doubt that we will be suffering an ETS next year thanks to Al Gore’s visit, helping Mr Palmer earlier this year in getting the legislation changed to allow for a “review” of an ETS.
“CO2 is the exhaust of Capitalism” according to Maurice Strong who started this fraud with the UN back in the early 80’s and that’s all you need to know to see where this is heading.
I’m hoping that there might be another party formed that can reflect common sense on this, and many other recent matters, so that I can vote for it.

richard verney
November 8, 2015 12:00 am

Anyone who is interested in democracy MUST see this video. It is short and well worth a watch:

Ex-expat Colin
Reply to  richard verney
November 8, 2015 12:34 am

Beat me to it…many thanks! I hope too see him in Paris soon.
Canada the same way?

Lewis P Buckingham
November 8, 2015 12:05 am

Suddenly the Goods and Services tax is seriously being discussed.
The nerve.
The proposal is a 50% hike.
Now that we have all in Australia been shown the ‘red light of hell’ in taxation, a regressive across the board tax which kills jobs and hits small business the housing industry and the poor, what do we get.
We are offered yet the other possibility,a ‘green light’, a tax to save the planet.
More disguised carbon taxes.
Now who could morally oppose such a tax?/sarc on for the US.
This is a tax which can never have a demonstrable declared positive outcome.
It cannot change the climate of the Earth.
It can destroy our competitiveness.
A first step is to stop spending borrowed money on other countries’ aspirations and desires.
Particularly where we are supposedly ‘saving the planet’.
In health support attempts to make hospital systems accountable financially for their medical and surgical mistakes.
That does not mean that people are not treated when they go back through emergency in the private system,it means the taxpayer and the insurance company does not pay.
It comes off the hospital bottom line.
Stop the idiocy where it is suggested smokers are hit more for private insurance.
It just means they will drop all insurance and end up in the excellent public system.
So taxpayers pay even more.
The Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme review is a good move.
Control prescription shopping.
Cap the exponential growth of hospital funding.
Same with school funding.
When the ‘school halls’ were built under PM Julia Gillard, the State School Systems spent a third more of our money on the same outcome in halls.
The rest went into ‘the builders’ retirement funds’.
Reduce expectations that the state can resolve all social ills with money.
The Coalition are playing with fire with a hiked GST.
Lip service to the Carbon Catastrophic Narrative replaced with new taxes that just raise more money is no joke when
it demonstrates a fundamental judgmental flaw.
Elevated anthropogenic CO2 has not raised the planet’s temperature.
Why act as if it has?

November 8, 2015 12:05 am

I tried posting this a few minutes ago but nothing happened,!
Thanks Eric, here’s the email you have prompted me to write to my Federal Liberal MP here in Cairns.
Dear Warren
It was with dismay that I watched Mr Turnbull replace Mr Abbott and feel that this plan was carried out before Canning so that he was in place for Paris where I believe that, like Rudd, he may attend along with the other 50,000 delegates!
The “thanks for voting but we’ll take it from here” attitude of Turnbull et al will surely please the UN and the ABC but it has displeased many here.
I have voted ALP all my life, up to and including Rudd One, but it was Copenhagen and the Global Warming nonsense, about which I now know a great deal, that changed me to Liberal voter.
Now I find that Minister Hunt has stopped the investigation into BOM’s tampering with the temperature record and Minister Bishop has signed the UN’s “Sustainable Development”plan. This phrase with it’s sinister implications in UN Agenda 21 sends shivers down my spine.
We must not sign this Paris agreement unless there is a get out clause or we’ll be on the road to a totalitarian world government plus the West will be handing over USD100 billion a year to despots and dictators in the Third World as “compensation” for what we in the developed world have supposedly done to warm the planet by a trivial 0.8C since the end of the Little Ice Age.
If you look at the Holocene (the last 11,000 yrs) you can plainly see we are at the lower end of the temperature trend for that time scale and nothing at all unusual is happening with the climate. There has been zero global warming according to the Satellites for almost 20 years now during which time over a third of man’s contribution to atmospheric CO2 has occurred.
Mr Turnbull is a wolf in sheep’s clothing I’m afraid and I’ve no doubt that we will be suffering an ETS next year thanks to Al Gore’s visit helping Mr Palmer earlier this year in getting the legislation changed to allow for a “review” of an ETS.
“CO2 is the exhaust of Capitalism” according to Maurice Strong who started this fraud with the UN back in the early 80’s and that’s all you need to know to see where this is heading.
I hope that there might be another party formed that can reflect common sense on this and many other recent matters so that I can vote for it.
Robin Willows
27 Yule Av Clifton Beach QLD 4879

Evan Jones
Reply to  Robin.W.
November 8, 2015 8:30 am

“CO2 is the exhaust of Capitalism”
Well, that sounds about right to me. Took a lot of time and money to get it that way, too, money arguably well spent. When and where said exhaust is not CO2 it’s something worse.
Implicit question bein’ whether the benefits are worth the exhaust (etc.). I’m willing to argue that one!

November 8, 2015 12:10 am

I’ll believe it’s slogan-free if the following words are banned:
Last chance

Evan Jones
Reply to  MyFriendOtis
November 8, 2015 8:32 am

The old last chance is dead. Long live the new last chance.

November 8, 2015 12:17 am

“It didn’t take long for Australia’s new Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull to tear up his promise to keep Abbott’s climate policies. Now Turnbull appears to have taken the next step.”
The problem for Turnbull is that he leads a coalition that is dependant on the support of the Nationals to hold Gov’t. The Nationals will not accept any change in the coalitions position on climate change. If he does he loses Gov’t. The Nationals have hte smarts.

Reply to  TedM
November 8, 2015 12:23 am

Shouls have read. The Nationals have the smarts.

Reply to  TedM
November 8, 2015 12:24 am

Oh dear. Done it again.
REPLY – I peel your fain. ~ Evan

November 8, 2015 12:36 am

Turnbull NO binding agreement in the for the forthcoming gabfest in Paris. If youdo I will never vote liberal again.

Reply to  dch47982
November 8, 2015 12:51 am

Just you wait. Julie Bishop when she was swanning around taking bows in New York recently already committed us to signing what ever was going. There was a joint press release with the Department of Defence (of all things) stating that they would “work towards” a binding agreement.
Traitors, all.

Reply to  nipfan
November 8, 2015 3:38 am

that BIT**, backstabbing powerhungry POS!
hear were in the kyoto powertrip mob now
so expect that crap to be renewed and made more powerful too
best we can do is boost the Nationals n independents tally
ONLY those who wont throw the votes to turdball n co
unless theyre removed NO lib vote
labors footshot anyway and greentards are a farce

November 8, 2015 12:40 am

* UKIP garnered over four million votes.

Stephen Richards
Reply to  Dreadnought
November 8, 2015 1:34 am

3.9 million votes

Lewis P Buckingham
November 8, 2015 12:47 am

SBS, the Australian national TV carrier, just declared at the end of the news that rather than an increase in the GST Australians need a Carbon Tax.
So now we know that the Left is on message and using taxpayer resources to push their line.
A great way to wedge Turnbull and split the Coalition.
It presents a bipolar view of taxation where what they suggest is the only answer.
Despite its uselessness.
Lets see if they give a ‘balanced’ anti carbon tax view on the next ‘news’.
If they don’t will Turnbull act?

RobertBobbert GDQ
Reply to  Lewis P Buckingham
November 8, 2015 9:40 pm

SBS is not the National TV carrier in Australia! It is government funded with some advertising and has a general multicultural theme.
Naturally conservative opinion is rarely expressed in its current affairs division.
The ABC is The National Government Funded Broadcaster. And not even the well known bias of The ABC would allow a news reader to declare that we need a Carbon Tax during the news. A general commentator on a current affairs show might get away with it as the ABC is also a conservative free zone buy it does not happen on The News.
If you are able to give more specific information I will be happy to follow up and contact my Local Member and let them know in no uncertain terms that such editorialising is way out of line in the News but I very much doubt that this occurred in a NEWS program.
There is now an entry via my search engine which refers to SBS News:
‘Carbon Tax better than GST Hike. Greens.’
It is referenced to the MP Greens Goose, Adam Bandt, and comes under the heading of Mandy Rice Davies ‘he would say that wouldn’t he.”
So it was a green parliamentary saying this not the News service. Our media is luvvy centric but that is a step too much even for the bias that exists.

November 8, 2015 2:18 am

“In my opinion, Australian politicians from the major parties, may be becoming far too cosy with big green.”
“If enough people write, there’s a very real chance politicians will be spooked into listening to their constituents, rather than their party leader.”
I can’t decide whether or not your naivety is more depressing than your appalling punctuation.

Reply to  Eric Worrall
November 8, 2015 4:53 am

They don’t care about keeping the job. The last elected Liberal premier of Victoria walked out halfway through his term, for some mysterious reason.

November 8, 2015 2:36 am

Time to vote Liberal Democrats

Reply to  wickedwenchfan
November 8, 2015 2:48 am

Look up David Leyonhjelm. A man with a head on his shoulders and the only person in the Australian Parlaiment wanting less spending and the only one fighting wind turbines

Reply to  wickedwenchfan
November 8, 2015 3:47 am

yeah , hes a breath of fresh air
if only he didnt think GMO was ok he’d be perfect

Reply to  wickedwenchfan
November 8, 2015 5:48 am

Lyin’hole is a Trojan Horse. He makes right wing / libertarian noises to draw right wing votes. But in contested votes he tends to abstain to give Labor the numbers, and preferences the left in Canning by election. He even formed a voting bloc with Lambie.
I trust him as far as I can throw him and the horse he rode in on.

Reply to  wickedwenchfan
November 8, 2015 8:17 pm

Liberal Dems should team up with the ALA. Together, they would represent an electoral force, one which just might compell the Nationals to abandon their sinking ship.

richard verney
November 8, 2015 2:48 am

This is an extract from the Lord Monckton talk of September/October 2014:
David King was asked whether all the nations of the world were now, in principle, ready to sign their people’s rights away in such a treaty. Yes, but there are two standouts. One is Canada. But don’t worry about Canada. They’ve got an election in the Spring of 2015 and we and the UN will make sure the present government is removed. He was quite blunt about it.
The other hold out is Australia. And Australia we can’t do anything about because Tony Abbott is in office until after the December 2015 conference. So that means you all have to guard Tony Abbott’s back. Because the Turnbull faction, in conjunction with the UN, will be doing their absolute level best to remove your elected Prime Minister from office before the end of his term and , in particular, before the end of 2015, so that they can get 100% wall-to-wall Marxist agreement. They do not want any stand-outs. And the most likely stand-out at the moment is Australia. So look after him.”
See: the video that I linked above (richard verney November 8, 2015 at 12:00 am)

November 8, 2015 3:01 am

an Australian has just been appointed co-chair of the Green Climate Fund.
former Labor PM, Kevin Rudd, has been appointed chair of the global sanitation and water partnership Sanitation and Water for All (SWA), which is part of the whole 2030 Sustainable Development Agenda. SWA partners with more than 90 governments, organisations and development bodies, including the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF) and the United Nations Development Program. Ultimately, Rudd wants the job of UN Secretary-General.
as for Turnbull, the CAGW-infested Australian MSM is in love with him & loves the idea of trading carbon dioxide emissions, and hopes we will all turn into Turnbull clones!
8 Nov: SMH Editorial: Malcolm Turnbull’s national makeover
And for the most part Australia is looking the better for it.
The Australia of today is becoming unrecognisable from the one eight weeks ago…
It’s been a national makeover of sorts – and Australia is looking all the better for it, bar ongoing concerns over asylum seeker policy, the need for more action on health and the potential for all this new look to turn out as fake…
Even on issues Mr Turnbull promised conservatives would not change – Direct Action on climate change and the timeline for a same-sex marriage plebiscite – he is reshaping the narrative…
Rather than seeing Direct Action as the end of the government’s policy to tackle global warming, he is suggesting it can be morphed as required into something more like an emissions trading scheme.
True, he has held back from major changes to other environmental policies, fearing a backbench backlash…
At month’s end he will travel to the Paris climate summit where he will seek to emerge with a deal on global warming to avenge the failure in 2009 which forced then prime minister Kevin Rudd to dump his initial emissions trading scheme plans and which, indirectly, cost Mr Turnbull his first shot at the prime ministership.
Now he’s been given – or taken – a second chance at the top job, he is doing everything possible to re-form the nation in his image…

November 8, 2015 3:05 am

What’s needed is for someone to make a video like Al Gore’s except this time using actual science to show the devastating effects of the coming ” Little Ice Age “…They can call it ” The Inconvenient REALITY ” !!…R.I.P. Michael Crichton….

November 8, 2015 4:02 am

[snip -over the top – mod]

Gerry, England
November 8, 2015 4:17 am

This just shows up how democracy doesn’t exist. The word is a combination of the Greek words for power and people. While the people may turn out to vote we can see how there is very little power. Accountability is the deficit and to have a genuine democracy there has to be a right of recall. It is easy for the politicians to give us sugarcoated lies at election time and then do something different in the knowledge that they are safe for a few years. However, if there was a system to have them face the electorate again if they break their promises then they would be less inclined to tell lies – old habits die hard after all. The method needs some thought but I would like to see the person on the spot subjected to a vote which if they fail prevents them from standing again in the new election.

RobertBobbert GDQ
November 8, 2015 4:49 am

David is a a Senator and while The Senate passes bills from The House of Reps it is the minor player in the Australian Parliament. It can and does act like a child throwing tantrums and block bills but it still remains the lesser of the Main bodies. People can vote for anyone they like but remember that a vote for a minor party only aids lLbor and Green and you will end up with every sort of Climate Nonsense and Taxation possible.
BTW. We have plenty of government funded delusional current affair sites in Australia via The Drum and The Conversation and the privately owned The Guardian.and Fairfax Press. So if I am Looking for Delusional and Whacko theories I do not have far to look.
Usually WUWT gives me sound information yet on this Harper and Abbott issue the garage of conspiracy gets a foothold.
Now Harper was in office for 9 and a half years so it took ‘The Man” quite a long time to wake up that a climate sceptic had office and then get rid of him. 9 and a half years!
As for Mr Abbott you simply have a look at the nervous nellies of the Liberal Party that could not stand the heat from the polls. We do not need the people in the shadows to go meddling in our affairs. Australians are very capable but we can stuff up a situation as well as anyone without outside help.
Now at luvvy sites it is Rupert and The Koch Boys plus Big Oil and Big Coal manipulating us robots so at least the luvvies have identified the master criminals so could someone just supply me with a few names of individuals and organisations that are pulling all the strings. The UN and Big Green do not count as everybody knows what a biased joke are those organisations. Even the everyday person so stop insulting their intelligence with this conspiracy crap.
Or do WUWT readers believe that the general public and voters are just dumbo or bogan which is exactly the position of a significant number of Guardian, Fairfax, Drum and Conversation posters.

Robert of Ottawa
November 8, 2015 5:12 am

You can follow developments on Jo Nova’s site.
We in Canada are about to get this carp too. is organizing demonstrations in Ottawa this weekend. Most people in Canada are getting quite pissed off with Americans, Saudis and Russians telling us what to do.

November 8, 2015 5:36 am

I think UKIP could be round up rather than down to 3 million.
UKIP. 3,881,099 votes = 1 MP.
SNP. 1,454,436 votes = 56 MPs.

November 8, 2015 6:00 am

So-called “climate change” is the new face of imperialism , I am afraid.
And the targets of this new imperialism are our historic allies, Canada, Australia, Western Europe, in addition to the traditional third world.

November 8, 2015 6:34 am

The U.S. ballot initiative is what real democracy looks like:
The ballot initiative is a means by which a petition signed by a certain minimum number of registered voters can bring about a public vote on a proposed statute or constitutional amendment. Ballot initiatives are also called, depending on the state, “popular initiative,” “voter initiative,” “citizen initiative” or just “initiative.”
Twenty-four states allow ballot initiatives, which are a form of direct democracy.
Direct democracy is when the people who have to live under the rules get to vote for the rules.
So-called “representative democracy” is when you get to vote for a ruler who makes the rules, invariably without regard for the wishes of the people. At best our Orwellian “representatives” try to manufacture consent for their agenda with propaganda and rhetoric. When they fail to establish consent, they just go ahead with the plan against the wishes of the people. Happens all the time in Australia.
Our public utilities were sold to private corporations despite public opposition. We now have the 2nd most expensive power supply charges on the planet.
The majority of Austrlians were against participating in the war against Iraqis, but the ruling party had already “taken” the decision in advance. John Howard read the same pro-war script to the Australian parliament that Steven Harper read in the Canadian parliament.
Who wrote the script – We the people?
Australians trying to buy a home now have to compete against foreign property investors inflating their portfolios. The Chinese aren’t permitted to own more than two homes in China (fair and reasonable policy, I reckon), but they can buy as many homes as they want in Australia. Chinese investors currently own around half of my city (Melbourne).
Some of the real estate agents in Melbourne only advertise in Chinese.
Chinese investors, with some help from out taxes, are allowed to dig up coal in our state and sell it back to us:
When did we vote for the insane policies that led to this situation?
Why do we call our Aussie system a “democracy” when it is really dictatorship in drag?

Naturally, we try to play you off against each other whenever it suits our purposes: high-waged workers against low-waged, unionized against non-unionized, Black against White, male against female, American workers against Japanese against Mexican against…. We continually push your wages down by invoking “foreign competition,” “the law of supply and demand,” “national security,” or “the bloated federal deficit.” We throw you on the unemployed scrap heap if you step out of line or jeopardize our profits. And to give you an occasional break from the monotony of our daily economic blackmail, we allow you to participate in our stage-managed electoral shell games, better known to you ordinary folks as “elections.”

RobertBobbert GDQ
Reply to  Khwarizmi
November 8, 2015 10:16 pm

Go to the Guardian and join the Great big delusional ratbaggery over there!
‘Chinese investors currently own around half of my city (Melbourne)’.
Well it is my city too champ and I will bet you one million billion trillion gazillion squillion that that is the most ridiculous figure ever used on his site.
In fact it makes Klymit Scyence data look well researched and reasonable.
Withdraw this gobsmackingly incorrect stat now and actually provide some evidence in future posts.
For example as at June 2014 our city has 4.40 million people via Wiki. At 3 people per household, roughly, that gives us about 1.46 million dwellings and you reckon that Chinese own a half of that number. If you say 4 per household it is 1.1M dwellings or some 550,000 Chinese owned dwellings.
Chinese buyers are in the above medium and bigger property market area and do not compete with the younger first home buyer. For every buyer there has to be a seller and are you suggesting that Melburnians do not have the right to sell to whoever makes the best bid? I know something of the sort goes on in some countries but I would have thought that to be against the notion that prevails here
regarding Liberty and government intrusion.
Post your Homework not your Bias or Delusion.

Reply to  RobertBobbert GDQ
November 9, 2015 1:54 pm

Withdraw this gobsmackingly incorrect stat now and actually provide some evidence in future posts.
I don’t follow orders, Rob.
I’m not your slave.
Selling the Australian property dream to the Chinese investor market>
Aussie homebuyers crunched by Chinese investors
The New Daily
Oct 5, 2015
Chinese investor DEMOLISHES historic $20 million Melbourne …
Oct 21, 2015 … But residents neighbouring the 16 St Georges Road property awoke on … Outrage after Chinese investor knocks down historic mansion …
Zero deposit loans for Chinese investors to spur Australian property market
Australian Financial Review – (Murdoch)
Oct 26, 2015
by Angus Grigg
One of China’s biggest financial institutions is offering zero-deposit home loans for off-the-plan apartments in Melbourne and the Gold Coast….
We ain’t seen nothing yet’: Chinese foreign investment in Australian property tipped to surge
SMH, July 21, 2015
Bank offer no-deposit home loans to Chinese investors to buy Australian property
Oct 28, 2015
Selling the Australian property dream to the Chinese investor market
ABC, Oct 17, 2015
Why didn’t you address my questions regarding the absence of democracy in our bankrupt nation?
Is it because you are happy with the dictatorship?

November 8, 2015 7:13 am

An un-elected, multi millionaire, internationalist banker for PM? Not a problem. Who best to understand the common people?

Reply to  Tim
November 8, 2015 8:23 pm

He wasn’t elected by the public. He was elected by the ABC.

November 8, 2015 7:37 am

Instead of wasting trillions of dollars trying to stop climate change ( impossible ), the money would be better spent on ADJUSTING to climate change ( easy )…Mr. Mann should like this idea…he good at ADJUSTING things !!

November 8, 2015 9:53 am

Found an interesting quote today:
“It is absolutely obvious that in the future sources of energy will be water, wind, and tides.”
— A. Hitler, August 2, 1941, speaking at the “inner circle” supper in Wolfschanze.

Reply to  Alexander Feht
November 8, 2015 4:23 pm

There is only one instance of the quote online…your comment here on this thread.
Did you make it up?

Reply to  Khwarizmi
November 8, 2015 11:25 pm

This is an exact quote from the “Conversations at Hitler’s Table in his Headquarters” (“Tischgespräche im Führerhauptquartier”) — the famous compendium published in West Germany by Henry Picker, Hitler’s stenographer, in 1951, 1963, and 1976. I am reading it in Russian translation (Progress Publishing House, 1993).
Not everything that is true can be found on Internet, while most of what can be found on Internet, unfortunately, is far from being true.

Reply to  Khwarizmi
November 9, 2015 12:00 am

Tischgespräche im Führerhauptquartier 1941-1942
Deutscher Taschenbuch-Verlag, 1968 – Germany – 285 pages

Reply to  Khwarizmi
November 9, 2015 12:20 am

I don’t know if any English translation of this compendium exists. I translated exactly a sentence from the Russian 1993 edition (translation from German by I. V. Rozanov). Authenticity of these documents has been confirmed by multiple high-ranking witnesses. Picker regularly submitted his stenographic reports to his boss, Martin Borman, who used them to “anticipate” Fuehrer’s preferences while submitting his policy proposals.

November 8, 2015 10:30 am

Make no mistake, there is a potentially gigantic amount of money on the table.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we find out that a similar big left-wing banking connection helped oust Harper in Canada and get Trudeau elected.
These big left-wing banks already have their carbon derivates (created by some of the same ilk that gave us the ones for the subprime mess) ready to go for the $20 trillion dollar a year cap-and-trade. They will profit immensely from this. In addition, so much money will be flowing into the government that there will be no need to raise taxes on the rich. They already screwed the middle class by pushing for the great society programs that were funded mainly by the middle classes via higher SS taxes.
What galls me is that we just sit like lemmings on the side correctly pointing out wrong-doing and how we are getting effed. Could it be that the same chemicals that are changing some male birds, frogs and various reptiles into females have lowered our T-levels? My doctor told me that men my age back in the ’50s had T-levels around 1200. Now the average is more like 600. Its possible that we are being feminized (purposely or by accident) and hence lack the cajones to stand up to these left-wing zealous surveillance and control-freaks? Certainly a possibility in my book as you can see the by-products ending up in the wild affecting birds and other wildlife (do a google news search for yourself) and how men’s T-levels today are about half of what they used to be.

Reply to  kramer
November 9, 2015 2:27 am

You have a point. Could be a reaction to abundance of food and to the overpopulation, though. Too many most active men died in World Wars (though their genes would survive). Also, men were doing much more physical labor back in the 1950s. Socialist welfare inevitably leads toward widespread degeneration. Emasculation (and fattening) by something in the diet and water is also possible.
People (both men and women) looked much fitter than now in the documentary footage until about the beginning of 1980s, when something drastic began to happen. Rich people in their special communities like Silicon Valley don’t let their children eat supermarket food, don’t let them watch TV or use “smartphones”, and place them in private schools where lunches are made from the local organic produce only, and where electronic devices are forbidden. They know something. Their kids grow up much fitter and much more active physically and mentally than most of the population.
Usually such things are a result of the complex interplay of many factors — and I don’t necessarily exclude the possibility of an intentional influence on the mass scale: conspiracies do exist. The greatest of recent American writers, Jack Vance, suggested that mass control would be very possible via the municipal water distribution systems. It doesn’t take a genius to see that we are being methodically screwed. In some places in European cities I had a feeling sometimes that I am lost in some monstrous neurotic kindergarten or madhouse, where degeneration shows almost in every face.

November 8, 2015 2:10 pm

2009: Former Opposition leader Malcolm Turnbull, having first likened climate sceptics to Holocaust deniers, smokers and Hitler appeasers, then plays the age card …
Talkbull thinks one cold night is evidence of global warming:


November 8, 2015 3:04 pm

The fact is that climate fanatics are incompatible with a free civil society.
It is long past time to stop these alarmist con-artists whose appetite for tax payer money and utility bills is as insatiable as their obsession with a non-existent climate apocalypse.

RobertBobbert GDQ
November 8, 2015 10:28 pm

I notice that someone has decided to put up a video parody of a Hitler play with Turnbull parody lines and dialogue. It is outrageous to use anything associated with the Third Reich to compare any Western Politician involved in Western Liberal philosophy and I demand that this vile Nazi propaganda is moderated.
This is the sort of stuff that I expect over at the extreme luvvy sites and I call on Mr Watts to reject this disgraceful use of National socialism to critique the politics of my nation.
Absolute gutter crawling!!!!!

RobertBobbert GDQ
Reply to  RobertBobbert GDQ
November 9, 2015 3:20 am

Regards to all.

Reply to  RobertBobbert GDQ
November 9, 2015 2:44 pm

It’s not your site: you are a guest. You have no right to issue demands, like some petty little dictator.
Unlike Australians with our convict mentality, Americans are passionate about free speech.
Didn’t you know?
Chinese developers last month snapped up most of the 15 sites in and around Melbourne sold by CBRE Group Inc. — five times the property broker’s usual monthly tally. The bulk of the deals were sealed after the Shanghai Composite Index started tumbling.
“It would seem that they’re actually doubling down,” said Mark Wizel, a senior director for CBRE in the city. “There’s been a genuine acceleration for the past three weeks.”
The flow of Chinese cash risks inflating Sydney and Melbourne house prices that are already beyond the reach of many Australians.
FIGURES out this week show the Chinese are pumping money into the Australian property market like never before.
Financial services company Credit Suisse estimates that residential investment from Chinese-based investors and new immigrants from China will more than double over the next six years to $60 billion.
The company’s report out this week said Chinese buyers were “important drivers of house prices”, having claimed 23 per cent of new housing stock in Sydney
and 20 per cent in Melbourne in 2013-14.

Reply to  RobertBobbert GDQ
November 10, 2015 2:40 am

Hi Robert.
I note that you’re not offended by PM Talkbull calling me a Hitler Appeaser or Holocaust Denier.
Nice faux outrage.

Reply to  handjive
November 10, 2015 2:43 am

Now I’m in moderation and I’m the bad guy?

Bob in Castlemaine
November 8, 2015 11:08 pm

Malcolm Turnbull, hypocrite without peer:
This bloke is not a conservative’s elbow:

“1976 – Despite his leftist ideology, Turnbull shows a willingness to join whatever political party he thinks he can use as a vehicle for his agenda. He tells radio broadcaster David Dale that he wants to be Prime Minister by age 40. Dale asks “For which party?”, and Turnbull responds “It doesn’t matter“.

So obviously:

Classical liberals and conservatives should also use their Senate votes very carefully, to ensure that Turnbull won’t have an easy Senate to deal with if he wins. They should specifically vote for the sound Liberal candidates, who will be willing to cross the floor against Turnbull, and put the others behind high quality minor parties, like Family First (Bob Day is excellent). If they can’t be bothered numbering all the boxes, then vote ‘1’ for Family First.

Another alternative for conservatives is perhaps Australian Liberty Alliance (ALA) although their current energy policy is somewhat flaky.

November 9, 2015 7:12 am

I do not trust Malcolm Turncoat, he will destroy the conservative base of the liberal part and probably too late now to pull back away from his mission. Sadly we need the formation of a true new party, and this can only be accomplished with a new leader AND the National Party walking away from the coalition lead by Malcolm Turnbull. I am not sure if the Nationals have the ability and cohesiveness to dump the rest of the Turncoat Party, and to form a new Conservative Coalition. I am sure that the emboldened Turncoats will roll over and sacrifice Australia at the Paris talks and we will have the likes of Palmer calling the shots from the sidelines as he lines up with Malcolm and demands payment for his destabilization of Tony Abbot, and pushing the coalition as far left as they can while still maintaining some semblance of a conservative party while gutting this one.
WE badly need a new conservative leader to rally around, otherwise the nervous Nellies who think only of protecting their parliamentary seats will try and maintain and keep enough voters on side solely for that purpose rather that destruct this pale left wing shadow and hoping enough voters will remain and not risk a disastrous return to a Labor propped up green revival that economically crippled us in the past.
But maybe that disaster is a catalyst for the formation of a new Coalition, with conservative values and the purging of the Turncoat Camp, I cannot vote for a Turnbull lead coalition as I do not trust him at all. If there is a viable alternative, my vote is there along with my financial support.

Reply to  KenB
November 9, 2015 11:19 am

The leader of the up and coming UKIP, Nigel Farage, is an example as an outsider challenge to the political class. He describes them as “Attending the same schools, going to the same parties, marrying each other’s sisters — you can’t get a cigarette paper between them!”
After UKIP’s recent high-mark of nearly 4 million votes, Nigel Farage has been discussing immigration policy as a member state of the European Union. He has for months been pointing out the success of the “Australian-style point system for immigration.”
So my question is, “Have the boats started arriving yet under the Turnbull Administration?” The flood of economic migrants — young men from Islamic countries — is ten-fold what immigration has historically been in the UK, and probably for other European countries, esp. the tiny nation of Greece. So I believe this is another reason Tony Abbott was targeted at this time, in tandem with the Paris COP summit 2015. Tony Abbott’s policy was in fact stopping the boats.

Reply to  Zeke
November 9, 2015 8:31 pm

There is no “points system” for immigration in/to Australia, not that I know of anyway. There are various categories which have criteria such as certain skills etc that cannot be met locally. There is a “points system” for opening bank accounts however.
Regardless, Turncoat will sell Australia out at Paris. Just another disgusting show of Australian politics. And when the mining boom is over, Turncoat will be sweet with his all expenses paid gold plated pension fund.

November 9, 2015 4:03 pm

Come gather ’round drones
Wherever you home
And admit that the taxes
Around you have groan’d
And accept it that soon
You’ll be skinned to the bone
If overtime to you
Is worth savin’
Then you better start objectin’
Or you’ll sink like a stone
For the climes they’re always changin’.
Come blogger and critics
Who analyse like wise men
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won’t come again
And speak up real soon
For the windmills in spin
And there’s no tellin’ who
That it’s harmin’
For the losers now
Will be later to win
For the climes they’re always changin’.
Come senators, congressmen
Best heed our call
Don’t stand in the freeway
Don’t block up the coal
For he that gets hurt
Will be those you have tramelled
There’s a battle outside
And it’s worth wagin’
It’ll soon shake your windmills
And shatter your panels
For the climes they’re always changin’.
Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And best criticize
What you can understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are being given commands
Your wise road is
Needily cravin’
Please stand up to the new one
If you can’t lend your hands
For the climes they’re always changin’.
The time it is dawn
For the lie that’s cast
The slick ones now
Will be gone fast
As their present now
Will later be past
Their new order is
Rapidly cavin’
And the first ones now
Will later be last
For the climes they’re always changin’

November 9, 2015 10:17 pm

Turnbull is married to Agenda 21

November 10, 2015 5:35 am

Malcolm Turnbull colluded with former Australian Labor Prime Minister back in 2009 to try and implement an emissions trading scheme before the Copenhagen Climate Conference. As a consequence, Turnbull lost his leadership of the Liberal Party to Tony Abbott.
Conservatives embraced Tony Abbott and helped him become Prime Minister. The year, Lord Christopher Moncton warned Australia to guard against the overthrow of Abbott before the Paris conference by Turnbull.
On his first day in Parliament, Turnbull confirmed to the Opposition that his government would go to Paris with Abbott’s climate policy. Well, if Turnbull now goes to Paris with anything else, he will have lied to the Australian people. Conservatives in Australia do not trust Malcolm Turnbull. They know his politics is left wing and not conservative. They also know he is a global warming alarmists. What they don’t know is to what extent Turnbull, a multi millionaire, has invested in green technology etc. from which he can benefit from his own climate policy.

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