Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
I have a category that I call “scientific urban legends”. These include things like the idea that rising seas will drown atolls, when Darwin showed 150 years ago that rising seas create atolls. Another scientific urban legend is the claim that we’re in the middle of the “Sixth Wave of Extinctions”, when there is no evidence to support that claim. Despite flying in the face of scientific observations, these urban legends show amazing persistence. From my observations in fighting them, each legend will require the equivalent of an oak stake through its heart at a lonely midnight crossroads in order to eventually kill it.
I got to thinking about methane today. It’s supposed to be the doomsday gas of all the greenhouse gases, many times more powerful than CO2. People discuss things like the “methane time bomb”, which is supposed to be ticking somewhere or other, and ready to blow us all to Thermageddon, or at least to the Climatory … the proposed location of said explosive device has changed over time …
So I googled “methane times more powerful co2”, and I got the following top six results, from number one on down:
EPA: 20 times more powerful
EDF: 84 times more powerful
thinkprogress: 34 times more powerful
onegreenplanet: 100 times more powerful
psehealthyenergy: 20 times more powerful
global-warming-forecasts: 72 times more powerful
In those numbers you see an initial confirmation that the methane alarmism actually is a scientific urban legend … one of the red flags for such legends is, nobody knows what the exact number is, but by gosh, everyone is very sure that it is really, really big and really, really bad for us.
So I wondered … the IPCC says that the change in atmospheric absorption from a doubling of CO2 is a 3.7 watt per square metre increase. How much change would there be from a doubling of the methane levels?
To answer this question, I went to the wondrous MODTRAN site. Using todays values for CO2 (~ 400 ppmv) and methane (~1.81 ppmv) gives me upwelling radiation of 287.5 watts per square metre (W/m2).
Then I doubled the methane to 3.62 ppmv, re-ran the calculations, and got 286.7 W/m2 emitted from the TOA …
…
… which means that if by some chance the methane levels were to double in the next hundred years, the total effect would be an increase in the atmospheric absorption of 0.8 W/m2. Less than a quarter of the effect of a doubling of CO2 … say what? This is supposed to be the dread methane, eleventy times more powerful than CO2? Less than one watt per doubling?
So of course, I wanted to check my figures. To do that, I used the formulas from the IPCC for calculating the change in forcing resulting from a given change in methane. They are available here, see Table 6.2. I won’t bore you with the calculations, but they say if the atmospheric methane level doubles from the current level of 1.81 ppmv to 3.62 ppmv, the forcing will increase change by 0.54 W/m2. Somewhat smaller than the 0.8 W/m2 from MODTRAN but the same order of magnitude, well under one watt per square metre …
Let me slow that down for you to make sure you understand what I’m saying. IF methane concentrations double over the next century we would expect and increase in forcing of
One half
Of one watt per square metre
Per century.
So … how likely is it that the methane levels will double within a hundred years? To answer that, we can look at the recent changes in the methane levels. Here is the recent observational data:
Figure 1. Source: NOAA/ESRL
To double from today (1810 ppbv or 1.81 ppmv) would be another 1810 parts per billion. As you can see, the methane levels rose more rapidly until about 1992, and rose roughly linearly at a slower rate after that. The period of record is about a third of a century (36 years). Over that time, it rose by about 250 ppbv. This means that over the next century, with a “business-as-usual” scenario we’d expect something on the order of three times that, or 750 parts per billion. This is a long ways from a doubling, which would be 1,810 parts per billion
And the increased forcing from that 750 ppbv? Well … it’s a measly quarter of one watt per square metre. Again, let me slow that down. With a “business-as-usual” scenario, we would expect an increase in forcing from methane of
One quarter
Of one watt per square metre
Per century
How about if the rate goes wild, and the methane starts rising at say three times the current rate? That would be an additional 2,250 ppbv per century, which in turn will result in an additional forcing of, wait for it … two-thirds of one poor lonely watt per square metre. MODTRAN puts it slightly higher, but still under one W/m2. Pathetic.
And what are the odds of the rate being that high, 2,250 ppbv per century, three times the recent rate of 750 ppbv per century? Very slim. We can see that by looking at the last thousand years of methane levels. Note that these are not global values as in Figure 1. Since there is a methane gradient from the north to the south pole, the Antarctic values are somewhat less than in Figure 1. However, we’re interested in the trend, which will be about the same globally:
Figure 2: Source: NASA GISS
From 1900 to 2000, which was the fastest-rising century in the last millennium regarding atmospheric methane, the concentration went up by about 800 ppbv, a bit larger than the recent increase shown above in Figure 1 of 750 ppbv per century. So there is no acceleration in the rate of methane level increase. To the contrary, there is deceleration, since the recent two decades of the record show an increase of only around 400 ppbv. And indeed, my “business-as-usual” estimate is about as fast as the record rise over the last thousand years.
As a result, I’d say there is very little chance that the rate of methane increase will be doubled, much less tripled, over the coming hundred years … and even in the very unlikely chance that it did triple, the increase in forcing would still be under one watt per square metre per century. Not per decade. Per century.
I gotta say, that’s not some fearsome gas. That’s a downright wimpy example of a Chicken Little gas, a laughing gas if you will. Anyone who is worried about methane, good news. You can stop worrying. Even an extreme methane increase sustained for a hundred years will only make a trivial difference in downwelling forcing. The idea that methane is a major player in the temperature game is a scientific urban legend.
w.
AS USUAL, I request that if you disagree with someone, please quote the exact words that you disagree with. That way, we can all understand just what you object to.
PS—Yes, I know that people claim that methane has some strong feedbacks. And yes, I took a look at them. One is that increasing temperature causes increasing methane, because methane is a byproduct of life, and life likes warmth. More warmth = more life = more decay = more methane.You can see the relationship here.
The problem with that feedback is that whatever increased methane emissions the recent global temperature increase might have caused are already included in both graphs above, Figures 1 and 2. So that feedback is already accounted for in the 750 ppmv/century predicted increase.
The second feedback is due to the fact that methane only lasts about ten years in the atmosphere, at which time it breaks down as follows (simplified):
CH4 ==> CO2 + 2 H20
So when the CH4 is gone, you still have two different greenhouse gases remaining, carbon dioxide and water vapor. Oooh, frightening!
But the problem with that feedback is that the methane numbers are so tiny. The atmospheric levels of the three gases are approximately as follows:
Methane: 1.8 ppmv
CO2: 400 ppmv
Water Vapor: 6,400 ppmv
Now, turnover time in the atmosphere for methane is on the order of ten years. This means that every year a tenth of the methane turns over, or 0.2 ppmv per year.
This means that the amount of methane that decays into CO2 and H20 each year increases the CO2 levels by about 0.2 ppmv per year (or 20 ppmv per century), and the water vapor levels go up by twice that or about 0.4 ppmv per year … meaninglessly small.
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The biosphere is filled with methane metabolizing bacteria. The love the extra ppbv molecule.
So, if you take (0.5 watts/century/CH4 doubling)*(0.31 Stefan Boltzmann Constant)*(.50 approximate negative cloud feedback)= a gross warming effect of 0.0775C/century/CH4 doubling, plus or minus whatever the sun decides to do between now and 2100.
We’re doomed! Doomed! I tell you!
“It is often remarked that methane is more powerful than CO2, but this is not due to some intrinsic property of the gas, but precisely because methane exists in lower concentrations and so has yet to fill its primary bands. If methane existed in higher concentrations than CO2, the reverse would be true: CO2 would be more powerful on a molecule-by-molecule basis”
Physics of the Greenhouse Effect, https://chriscolose.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/physics-of-the-greenhouse-effect-pt-2/
The effect of increasing greenhouse gases depends on their current concentrations. For example, the CO2 absorption bands are mostly saturated and increasing CO2 further has a logarithmic effect; i.e. Each molecule added has less effect than the previous one. In other words, the warming effect of CO2 is something we already have, increasing CO2 further will not make much difference.
On the other hand, the methane absorption band is not saturated and is not overlapped by the water vapour continuum. Increasing methane levels have a square root effect rather than a logarithmic one. [But of course there isn’t much of it nor is there likely to be]
Thanks MikeB, that’s the best I’ve ever seen that described. Very helpful information to give an intelligent friend who is caught up in the religion of human emissions guilt trip.
Where did I see this before, in fig 02. It resembles a hockey stick or am I mistaken?
Apologies for intruding onto such an erudite scientific site …. but I will.
To paraphrase the delightfully named RalfDaveWestfall above at 2-10am. “Intelligent ridicule” is a useful weapon in this war on science being waged by everyone from the White House to the Vatican.
To this end I have penned the following piece of doggerel in response to Scottish “scientists” attempting to persuade our cows to stop farting.
BTW Coos is Scottish for cows.
An Ox – e- Moran
The Global Warming numpties
Just get more surreal each day,
As ‘scientists’ here in Scotland
Try to wean our cows off hay;
They’ll stop them belching methane
Flatulating Co2,
Remove their carbon hoofprints
Till we have the greenest coo.
Our bovine friends contented
As they lie to chew their cud,
Not asked to ‘save the planet’
Its a mooot point if they could;
With farmers heavy burdens
Of legislation on their backs,
We all pay through our nostrils
With this e-cow-logic tax.
As I sit and ruminate
About real scientists who demur,
They say cow made Climate Change
Is a load of old manure;
No honest politician
Will stand up and from the floor,
Call Mann Made Global Warming
A wet dream of Albert Gore.
Patrick Healy
Patrick Healy,
Very good!
Satirical poetry
How fun
Has potential.
Sounds like a haiku. But 7-2-5? Is there such a form?
If there is, it should be called exhaustion haiku.
Over 200 comments from WUWT coupled with a busy reality monring. I find I can’t resist flipping through WUWT comments. I’m looking for kernels for how skeptics can gain message penetration.
I got excited
The poetry was good
I thought it could lead to
More
Bright fellas.
Well versed.
Best idea I’ve rattled around in my skull is WUWT needs a Sunny TV show.
SunnyTV for the enviro crowd. I like it!
They might not even realize she’s not one of them.
I’ve heard it called “shining a flashlight”.
Essentially, you point out the obvious in a non emotional geez whiz dead pan manner. You can see it in someone’s face because they make that incredulous look because you are using their logic.
I’ve seen her other works for things like health care. She’s good. Has the style down.
Can anyone explain how the concentrations of CO2 are derived? I’m curious to know how anyone can claim the atmosphere (approximately 4.2 billion cubic km). What is the sample rate? Are samples taken at the upper regions of the atmosphere? Are the measured CO2 concentrations extrapolated or are there enough samples to state the 4 ppm as consistent throughout the 4,200,000,000,000 meters of atmosphere?
“Well mixed” covers a multitude of sins.
NASA did get one or two U2 aircraft after the USAF was done with them. High altitude air sampling is one of the plane’s capabilities.
raybbrm
Most stations take measurements every 10 seconds and calculate the average and sigma every hour after several calibration gases were passed. See the procedures at:
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/about/co2_measurements.html
You don’t need that much measurements at height, as CO2 levels are about the same between a few hundred meters over land (and near zero height over the oceans) and 30 km height. The difference between CO2 at ground level (Barrow) near the North Pole and 3,400 m height at Mauna Loa is about 1 ppmv for yearly averages and between the NH and SH at ground level 2 ppmv, mainly due to the fact that most emissions are at ground level and the increase needs time to reach height and pass the ITCZ… The maximum difference for yearly averages is 4 ppmv between Barrow at ground level and the South Pole at near 3000 m height or 1% of full scale.
See the many stations over the world, and sporadic ship’s and in-flight measurements at the carbon tracker:
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/dv/iadv/
The “official” global CO2 level is the average of several stations at ground level, thus not including Mauna Loa, but it makes little difference in absolute value, even less in trend, if you take one single station as base for any radiation calculation.
CO2 is not a climate driver and CH4 even less so.
However, cows do belch Methane and this was brought to the attention of the Dutch public many years ago by this event:
A vet was attending a cow with really excessive gas production and the farmer was not convinced it was Methane. So the vet gave a demonstration that it was by lighting it on the next burp. Unfortunately the gas was really under pressure and the ensuing flame went straight into the hay supply. The whole complex burnt down. Next day there was a headline in the press: “Cow burns barn down”.
In a similar vein the Dutch farmers learnt that you do not feed apples to cows however much they like them. One autumn there was such a surplus of the fruit that they thought it could be used as cattle fodder. As it happens the cow’s stomach is a very efficient fermenter, so the apples lead to serious scrumpy production inside the cows. The next morning many were found totally lame on their back with their legs pointing to all wind directions.
Might be an urban legend but I have seen that account of the “methane” burp before. There was an article on methane build ups causing a barn fire in Germany a year ago:
http://www.examiner.com/article/gassy-cows-blow-up-barn-germany-methane-build-up-blows-roof-off-cow-shed
Reported in many papers but the article above had me almost rolling on the floor with this little “environmental” add on: “Cattle ranching is a polluting business. Methane is a “potent greenhouse gas”, and cows also release large amounts of ammonia. That can lead to toxic acidification of soil and water bodies.”
Must be a vegan newspaper. LOL
The solution?
http://www.newfunnypictures.net/data/media/1/Eat%20more%20chicken.jpg
Not just apples, check out this video, the drunken ostrich is hilarious!
You have to get rid of “Per century.” What you are saying is that if CH4 doubles in the next century the forcing will change by one half of one watt per square metre (ok so far) then, even if the CH4 doesn’t increase in the next century, the forcing will increase by an additional half watt per square metre (no it won’t) and it will keep doing so forever (even though we add no more CH4). I’m pretty sure you didn’t intend to say that.
A comment that I was about to make. Amazingly (if I understand things correctly) Willis has seriously overstated the effect of methane! IOW, instead of
it should be:
One quarter
Of one watt per square metre
Once
No apology needed patrick Healy! That’s right up there with ‘Rabby’ Burns’ Ode to a Haggis!
Thank you very much for this, Willis. This link goes directly to my small arsenal of favorite articles to show to CAGW believers.
you obviously work like I do, I wonder if you agree with my comment below yours?
Not much. I don’t need the bullet points because I am already creating my own. I agree it could be useful for other people, but not for me.
Two excellent posts on Methane one after the other, now we need a simple bullet point refutation of the Methane myth for non scientists like myself.
Can I suggest WUWT start a fact sheet/bullet point library for journalists and non scientists to refer to when we are trying to refute junk science. Such simple to understand fact sheets could be reviewed every few months by a website librarian, this service would really help us in our fight to get the media to take more note of the wonderful work you do on this forum/blog.
Excellent idea. Instead of parroting the talking points of the climate mafia or the DNC, perhaps if given in concise, cogent form (“so simple a journalist can understand it!”), such WUWT talking points could begin to make their way into the mainstream press.
Define “lifetime” of CH4. The half-life of methane in the atmosphere is about 7 years. Ordinarily, for example, a radioactive isotope is depleted when it undergoes 10 half-lives of decay. That would suggest the “lifetime” of methane is 70 years. The half-life is more informative, because it is unambiguous.
http://phys.org/tags/methane/
http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/@api/deki/files/15969/14.17.jpg
I think that the decay time constant is far more useful than the half life.
With an exponential decay as you show, the initial slope of the decay curve is 1/tau.
That is, if the decay continued at the starting linear rate, it would reach zero in one time constant.
But following the exponential decay, it only decays to 37% of the starting value in one time constant (1/e).
Every EE knows that it takes three time constants to decay to 5% of initial value, and five time constants to decay to 1% of initial value.
Of course one time constants is about 3.33 half lives. So 7.5 time constants would get you down to 0.1% of initial value.
g
The “Science is Settled”
If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine. — Obi-Wan Kenobi
Sounds like homeopathy to me.
Congratulations, Willis, your article made it to Real Clear Energy – http://www.realclearenergy.org/
Another feedback is that if it does warm, methane will break down even faster.
Yabut … The breakdown reaction is exothermic and this leads to faster breakdown … OMG we’re all going to die. LOL
Cut Methane 40-45%? Climate hysteria gone crazy. A Limerick
A Message that EPA sent.
Cut Methane by 40%.
No more rice, no more beef,
no more milk, no more cheese.
And yet, it will not make a dent.
What is the EPA belching out now? … http://lenbilen.com/2015/08/18/3766/
OK, that’s one global warming urban legend, there are a few more to go you know. In no particular order:
Polar bears will starve if they don’t have pack ice on which to hunt.
When a glacier disappears from the valley the river will run dry.
The missing heat is at the bottom of the ocean.
Warm water is eating the the bottom of the Antarctic ice cap.
Global warming will cause more droughts.
Global warming is causing more severe weather.
Global warming causes forest and brush fires.
Sea level is going up faster and faster.
But … but … Willis, how are we going to tax cow farts in order to enforce vegetarianism?
Yes, to enforce vegetarianism.
AND – to stop evil farmers from doing the evil stuff that they do.
Like producing all the world’s food.
Farmers, as we all know by now, are almost as evil as producers of energy and goods.
Which pretty much leaves only governments and intergovernmental organizations as our only potential righteous saviours.
All the world’s problems will be solved when governments finally agree to take control of all of the capital, and gift it to leftist nitwits.
I’ve taken up flint knapping and I’m hoarding flint… just in case. Somebody will have to be King of the New Stone Age. Might as well be me ;o)
Methane: 1.8 ppmv
CO2: 400 ppmv
Water Vapor: 6,400 ppmv
Shouldn’t these concentrations be molar or mass based because of differences in densities? It’s the mass that carries the energy, not the cubic foots. It’s the number of molecules per sq m that do the RFing.
It is by volume, so it is mole based due to the ideal gas law.
Hi Willis,
Out of the gate, thank for the Monday morning cow fart sight gag. Seriously…it is funny.
Just wondering…you stated that the residence time for methane in the atmosphere is ten years, but then in the next to last paragraph, you said that a ten year turnover meant that one tenth of the methane is eliminated every ten years. Should that not be one tenth every 1 year?
There were many millions of Bison before the settlers came to the western USA. They are gone but replaced by millions of cattle. Net result in methane production is probably close to being the same. Before Bison were millions of dinosaurs, too. I seriously doubt the methane argument – at least in terms of cattle.
I keep reading that we need to eat less beef because raising beef creates more methane from the beef flatulence. They are now pushing to drink less milk , again because of the flatulence. However, Ask any person that is on a strict vegetarian diet about their flatulence. Now consider that the protein that was obtained from beef and milk will now need to be obtained from plants, e.g., beans and legumes. So, doesn’t this just transfer the source of the methane from cattle to man, and the net generation of methane remains about the same? Plus, it sure will make it unpleasant to work in the new, energy saving, environmentally sealed offices.
And speaking of environmentally sealed offices, Last month bought a weather station that monitors temperature, humidity, sound and CO2 on the indoor sensor. With the windows closed now that fall has arrived, I find that the CO2 levels reach 1200 ppm on many nights, with the windows open during the day it quickly drops to 390 – 400. Years ago I occasionally smoked a pipe at home after dinner. The air infiltration was so high in that old house that rarely did anyone ever comment on the fact that the smelled tobacco smoke in my home – and I had a sister that hated tobacco. So, exactly what other contaminants are we filling our lungs and body with in the name of reducing CO2? Don’t know about you, but makes me want to leave a window open in my bedroom like I (everybody) did 40 years ago.
Willis,
Nick Stokes, October 11, 2015 at 10:07 pm, mentioned:
“methane has a lifetime in the air of 12 years”
I was wandering what the lifetime was for CO2. And I suppose that I can read “lifetime” as “a 100% disappearing rate”.
Searching on http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg1/016.htm I found the following strange declaration:
Working Group I: The Scientific Basis
C.1
Table 1: Examples of greenhouse gases that are affected by human activities. [Based upon Chapter 3 and Table 4.1]
CO2:
Atmospheric lifetime 5 to 200 yr c
Note c: “No single lifetime can be defined for CO2 because of the different rates of uptake by different removal processes.”
I think this is very strange. An IPCC that cannot count a “best estimation”? When you (think to) know how much CO2 is released every year, when you know how fast the number of PPM of CO2 in the atmosphere is growing and you know the quantity of the atmosphere of the earth, you must be able to count a number for a “disappearing rate” or “lifetime”?
I think this could be a quite interesting number. Could this number say that “the CO2 problem” will soon be gone after (when necessary) cutting CO2 releases? 5 Years should be very soon.
Wim Röst,
No matter what the IPCC says, if the decay rate of CO2 above the steady state level of seawater (Henry’s law) is linear (which it seems to be), then it is easy to calculate the e-fold decay rate:
decay rate = net sink rate / extra pressure above steady state
2.15 ppmv/year / 110 ppmv = ~51 years
The 2.15 ppmv/year is the difference between human emissions and what is measured as increase in the atmosphere. The 110 ppmv is 400 ppmv (~ partial pressure) measured, while for the current (area weighted) average ocean surface temperature the atmosphere would be around 290 ppmv.
Peter Dietze calculated that for the sink rate of near 2 decades ago:
http://www.john-daly.com/carbon.htm and found an e-fold rate around 55 years.
That means a half life time of about 40 years.
The IPCC uses the Bern model, which includes restrictions in uptake due to saturation of the oceans, which until now is only true for the ocean surface. Not for the deep oceans neither for vegetation.
Many skeptics on the other side are confused between the ~5 years residence time of any CO2 molecule (which doesn’t change the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, only swaps CO2 molecules between different reservoirs) and the e-fold decay time for any excess above steady state, whatever the origin.
“5 Years should be very soon.”
There is an easy way to tell that the life of CO2 is much longer than 5 years. We emit about 10 Gtons C a year. Total extra C in the air is over 250 Gtons. With a life of 5 years, the total extra wouldn’t be much more than 50.
As to why there is uncertainty about the exact number, it’s because half-life is only an exact concept with exponential decay. If several processes are involved, with different rates, it can’t be exponential.
Ferdinand Engelbeen and Nick Stokes thanks!
Nick Stokes: “We emit about 10 Gtons C a year. Total extra C in the air is over 250 Gtons.”
European Commission: http://edgar.jrc.ec.europa.eu/overview.php?v=CO2ts1990-2013
CO2 time series 1990-2013 per region/country. Total output CO2 exclusive deforestation: 35274106 Ktons = 35 Gtons
Note that these timeseries report country-specific CO2 emission totals of fossil fuel use and industrial processes (cement production, carbonate use of limestone and dolomite, non-energy use of fuels and other combustion). Excluded are: short-cycle biomass burning (such as agricultural waste burning) and large-scale biomass burning (such as forest fires).
If in “Total extra C in the air is over 250 Gtons” “C” means “CO2”, and when deforestation should count for another 10-20% making the total output 40 Gtons a year, then 250/40 gives 6,25 years.
Then:
1. all human CO2 would disappear very rapidly after cutting CO2 emissions
2. the question arises how nature could maintain a relative stabel 280 ppm before industrialisation
Or, something is not right in the calculation or data above.
No, you have to watch the units. I use tons C. Tons CO2 is 3.7x. You have divided Gtons C in air by emissions in Gtons CO2. The point is that if CO2 had a 5-year life, then excess in the air could never get to more than about 5x emissions. Actually less. But we have about 25x emissions.
Nick,
If several processes are involved, with different rates, it can’t be exponential.
Not that difficult:
1/tau(observed) = 1/tau(1) + 1/tau(2) + 1/tau(3) + … + 1/tau(n)
See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_decay#Decay_by_two_or_more_processes
The Bern model takes into account the saturation of the different reservoirs, which only is the case for the ocean surface. There are no signs of saturation of the deep oceans or vegetation, the main sinks up to now…
So I wondered … the IPCC says that the change in atmospheric absorption from a doubling of CO2 is a 3.7 watt per square metre increase. How much change would there be from a doubling of the methane levels?
For scientists involved in this what is meant is that an increment in CH4 has more effect than the same increment in CO2, also some of the sources allow for the effect of decomposition of CH4 over time (often averaged over 20+ years).
If you run MODTRAN with an increment in CO2 it takes about 72 ppm to give the same effect as 1.8 ppm of CH4, i.e. an instantaneous effectiveness ratio of about 40:1, CH4 has a lifetime of about 12 years so averaged over 20 years the ratio will be lower.
Willis is a scrappy bird
that’s plain for all to see
delighting flocks
of scrappy birds
with feathers just like me
Willis is a scrappy bird
That’s plain for all to see.
For cows can now expel their turds
With blithe impunity.