Guest Opinion: Dr. Tim Ball
Release of early data from NASA’s OCO2 satellite triggered the typical nonsense. The usual people talked about the modern equivalent of how many angels on the head of a pin, when they haven’t even established the existence of angels. The initial OCO2 data appears to show most estimates and assumptions were wrong. This might explain NASA’s hesitancy to release all the information, especially with regard to sources and sinks. If nothing else, the maps show the CO2 is not well mixed. The wider truth is that every piece of data in the climate debate is a very crude estimate created for a political or scientific agenda, including those used by many skeptics.
Kip Hansen’s essay “Are we Chasing Imaginary Numbers?” speaks to an important point about approximations. It reminded me about learning navigation and taking what was called “a three star fix”. The result almost always was a triangulation and all you knew was you were somewhere in the triangle. To narrow it down, but still not be precise, you dropped perpendicular lines from the centre of each side of the triangle to create what Hansen would recognize as the data point, we called it a Most Probable Position (MPP). Hansen’s discussion is very valuable, but in climate science the problem begins long before the point of determining accuracy.
All measurement records are inadequate for any legitimate analysis, lacking length, breadth, or depth. For example, Spectrum Analysis is used to determine climate cycles, but requires long records which are rarely available. The overall records are inadequate as the basis for modeling or even input to formulae; they definitely should not underpin any policy.
In typical IPCC fashion they acknowledge most of the problems in Box 2.1 Uncertainty in Observational Records. It appears in the Physical Science Basis Report where they know it won’t be read, It should be the first page of the Summary for Policymakers (SPM), but don’t hold your CO2 laden breath. Despite these inadequacies, unnecessary policies and attacks on entire segments of society occurred. Usually this occurs insidiously and without wider knowledge, primarily because of the abject failure of the mainstream media.
I have given evidence about climate and environment at trials and served on dozens of commissions of inquiry. In every case the primary finding was the same; data was inadequate to draw any conclusion. The problem is exacerbated because authorities limit and control what data is made available. Unfortunately, while this would stop pure scientific research, it doesn’t hinder political scientific research. The data problem in climate research has not improved in the 43 years since Hubert Lamb set up the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) in 1972. He explained the challenge in his autobiography.
“…it was clear that the first and greatest need was to establish the facts of the past record of the natural climate in times before any side effects of human activities could well be important.”
Lamb’s central interest was in reconstructing climate records, but his concern about inadequacies applies to all related data. He also commented on what would happen when all the efforts went to speculation without adequate data.
A precarious and threatening situation has developed for climatology: a tremendous effort was made to land research funds in all countries, mostly the USA, on the basis of frightening people about the possible drastic affects of Man’s activities, and so much has been said about climate warming there will be an awkward situation if the warming doesn’t happen or not to the extent predicted.
The IPCC successfully directed most attention, including that of most skeptics, to temperature and CO2. They were wrong on both these variables, but were equally wrong on most others. One error was their data and predictions about methane (CH4). Misuse of methane data began even before the IPCC hit full stride with attacks on the agriculture sector and cause serious and totally unnecessary economic and social damage (Figure 1).
Failed IPCC predictions like these are obvious and not surprising. More intriguing is the increase in observed methane levels after 2004, but more of that later.
On The Front Line
After 40 years working with farmers and landowners I know they are more aware and environmentally conscious than anyone else in society. They and their families live on and make their living from the land; it is an investment and a legacy. Farmers were attacked in the 1970s and 80s with claims their cattle produced methane (CH4) that caused global warming. It was incorrect scientifically and ignored facts that provided a different picture. It combined with attacks on their entire operation by animal rights groups that were aggravated by the severe drought across western North America in the late 1980s. Waterfowl numbers declined and farmers were blamed because they cleared the woodlands, drained the wetlands, and using chemicals. I spoke to a farm conference in Yorkton Saskatchewan during that period. A farmer spoke to me in the parking lot after. He said they no longer had family suppers because of dissent and hostility as his children, indoctrinated by a misinformed social studies teacher with a political agenda, attacked him and farming. The numbers of waterfowl recovered in the early 1990s when rains returned, but there were no apologies.
When the methane issue appeared I was serving as a technical advisor for the Canadian Cattlemen’s Association (CCA). I urged them to ignore the issue because scientific evidence didn’t justify the claims but that didn’t matter; the eco-bullying was effective. Some governments, like New Zealand, actually planned taxes on animal emissions of methane. The government eventually withdrew the tax after farmers protested loudly about the damage to the economy. In Canada the government offered sizable sums of money to farmers who adopted their methane reduction programs. I learned, while speaking to the Canadian Forage Crop producers a few years ago, that many signed on. They quickly found how disastrous it was because bureaucrats dictated their farm management, including inappropriately changing their crop rotation.
What happened to the methane issue? How was a very important part of society threatened and made to feel guilty for what humans and animals have done for millions of years, produce methane? The answer is special interest environmental groups used inadequate data and scientific knowledge to create a false narrative. The mainstream media amplified the threats in their furtherance of sensationalism. The worst part was most scientists remained silent. There was another scientist on the CCA panel with me who urged action. It later emerged that he was receiving research funds to produce methods of reducing methane from animals.
North American cattlemen went from the personification of freedom and healthy lifestyle represented by the Marlboro Man, to the actor who played the Marlboro Man sadly dying of cancer and the great outdoors polluted by the cattle in his herd.
T.H. Huxley said, “The great tragedy of Science – the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact.” It certainly applies to the hypothesis that human activities are causing increases in greenhouse gases, such as CH4, that are destroying the planet. The trouble was atmospheric methane volumes leveled and declined at the same time as the charges were made. The 2007 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report shows the trend (Figure 2).
Figure 2: Plot of methane levels from 1985 to 2006.
The IPCC (Table 1) showed that atmospheric methane (CH4) levels did not change as a forcing factor between 1998 and 2005.
| Concentrations and their changes |
Radiative Forcing |
|||
| Speciesa | 2005 | Change since 1998 | 2005 (W m–2) | Change since1998 (%) |
| CO2 | 379 ± 0.65 ppm | +13 ppm | 1.66 | +13 |
| CH4 | 1,774 ± 1.8 ppb | +11 ppb | 0.48 | – |
| N2O | 319 ± 0.12 ppb | +5 ppb | 0.16 | +11 |
Table 1: Changes in 3 greenhouse gases from 1998 to 2005.
Over the period from 1990 – 2013, which includes the period in Table 1, US methane levels declined (Figure 3).
The same EPA web page says,
Globally, over 60% of total CH4 emissions come from human activities.
They don’t know that, but it maintains the false narrative. The question is what do we know?
Methane is 0.00017% of all atmospheric gases and only 0.36% of the total greenhouse gases. These fractions were so small that even people who didn’t understand the science became skeptical of the claims that it was doing harm. This is when the concept of climate sensitivity appeared except it was called the Global Warming Potential (GWP). The story was that methane was a small percentage of the greenhouse gases, but much more effective than CO2 or H2O. It is a meaningless measure because
“The infrared absorption bands of methane, at wavelengths of roughly 3 and 8 microns, are overlain by absorption from water vapor. But once the water vapor absorbs the radiation in these bands, there is really nothing left for methane to absorb. So the estimates of methane being 20-70 times more effective per molecule than CO2 (as estimated by IPCC), or that methane forcing is 20% of CO2 forcing, as shown in various IPCC reports, makes absolutely no sense.”
Great variation in the GWP figure is evidence that it is artificial nonsense. EPA currently says it is over 20 times more effective than CO2.
Regardless, its lack of importance was clarified when, Andrew Weaver, contributor to four IPCC Reports (1995, 2001, 2007, and 2013) said,
“[Methane] was not considered in any of the predictions at all.”
[Disclaimer, Andrew Weaver has a defamation lawsuit against me]
Historical Context
Many facts about methane show why the story was distorted. In the 1970s and 80s farmers were already under attack from animal rights groups. The global warming due to greenhouse gases appeared and provided a bigger vehicle for their agenda. Global warming dominated the headlines pushing the theme that humans and their animals were a blight on the landscape.
Methane levels were not increasing, but that didn’t matter. Once government funding became available academics emerged to perpetuate the myth, not to report the truth. The central objective was to blame any change on human activity. An early story blamed Imperialist promotion of bush clearing for agriculture in Africa (Figure 4).
Figure 4; Termite mounds on the Savanna in Africa .
They claimed cleared land increased termite numbers and thereby methane amounts. This fell apart when someone discovered a calculation error that overestimated the numbers by a factor of four. Then the target became more Beaver and methane producing flooded land because of decreased trapping (Figure 5).
Figure 5: Beaver dam and increased flooding.
When ground checked, the numbers and area proved insignificant.
Cattle became the next target, but only North American cows. Jeremy Rifkin’s “Beyond Beef” was a book and global campaign that combined the animal rights and climate issue. The activists’ goal is to convince politicians of the problem. Once that happens it is virtually unstoppable as bureaucrats and research money (Figure 6) exaggerate, elaborate, and exacerbate so the truth never emerges.
Figure 6: Milking money because 85% of methane comes from the cow’s mouth.
A balanced approach would include all ruminants and changes in their numbers over time. For example, there is no question the number of cows in North America increased from the 1850s from approximately 120,000 to 86 million by the 1980s. However, during that time North American Bison (Buffalo, Figure 7) decreased from an estimated 65 million to 120,000 by the 1980s.
Figure 7: North American Bison methane producer.
They ignored the decrease in the number of elephants (Figure 8) from an estimated 25 million to 5 million.
Figure 8: African elephants
All these decreases are regrettable, but that is another issue. Unemotional facts are necessary for scientific measures of methane production.
There was a political bias as well because they didn’t mention the 250 million sacred cows in India (Figure 9).
Figure 9: Holy cows that produce no foodstuff.
It appears they ignored the Holy cows and Asian rice paddies, the second largest source of human produced methane, because of political bias (Figure 10). Science must be amoral and apolitical otherwise it is political science.
Figure 10: Asian Rice Paddies
If you make accusations and demand massive change it is mandatory to have as complete information as possible. This is never the case with eco-bullying. Instead they look for other potential sources created by human activity.
Recently, as the CO2 and global warming issues faltered they went back to methane. This time the source was melting permafrost due to human induced warming creating a positive feedback. Russian scientists are world experts because much of their vast country is permafrost. One of them, Michali Grigoryev, states categorically, the permafrost is not melting due to global warming.
Other evidence shows how little is known about methane. Scientists discovered in 2006 that rain forests were a major, previously uncounted, source of methane, not just from the rotting vegetation. Here is a quote from a 2006 BBC article,
To their amazement, the scientists found that all the textbooks written on the biochemistry of plants had apparently overlooked the fact that methane is produced by a range of plants even when there is plenty of oxygen.
The amount of the gas produced increased when the air was warmer, and when there was more sunlight. The paper estimates that this unexplained phenomenon could account for 10 – 30% of the world’s methane emissions.
The discovery caused a panic in climate science and affiliated circles as it potentially undermined their global warming stories and associated funding. Scientists who made the discovery, suddenly realized what their research said and back-pedaled. Apparently it triggered fears their funding would disappear because it undermined global warming and remediation claims. Here are comments from a 2006 article titled “Forest methane scientists hose down media reports.”
The authors of a study which revealed for the first time that growing plants emit the greenhouse gas methane now say their work has been widely misinterpreted by many in the media.
The results of the study, which were published in the January 12 edition of Nature, led some commentators to incorrectly conclude that planting trees to combat global warming was a waste of time.
The Kyoto Protocol encourages forest planting because growing trees capture the main greenhouse gas, carbon dioxide, from the atmosphere and ‘lock it up’ in plant material. In a media statement posted last week on the website of the Max Planck Institute for Nuclear Physics, principal author Max Keppler says the study findings are only “preliminary”.
But he estimates that methane emissions by plants may reduce their carbon uptake by up to 4 percent. The climatic benefits gained from reforestation far exceed this relatively small negative effect, he says. “The potential for reduction of global warming by planting trees is most definitely positive.”
They show their ignorance with the incorrect information that carbon dioxide is the “main greenhouse gas” by saying,
Methane has the second greatest effect on the climate, mainly due to rice cultivation and the digestive processes of ruminants like cattle and sheep.
Was this the information that caused the increase in methane shown in Figure 1? How can you claim to know what is going on when suddenly, a previously unknown 10-30% of methane emissions are discovered?
Arthur Conan Doyle created the character of Sherlock Holmes. Although he was fictional, Sherlock’s methodology dramatically altered real criminal investigative work. The following quote was central to that method and summarizes what goes on in climate and environmental science.
I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.
With environmental issues this twisting of facts results in unmeasured and untold damage to people’s lives. Sadly, the methane and agricultural story is just one of many.
they haven’t even established the existence of angels.
Nor have they defined the area of the pin head. And what about expected error pars? Wings extended or retracted?
And how old are the angels? Are they babies, children or adult? What is an angels ideal weight, do they come fat and skinny? Or are they etheral where thay can share the same space?
Only in an insane word where imbeciles rule the show can data no more robust than the data used to count angels is considered adequate enough to change public policy.
The UN does not want a quick end to oil, coal, and natural gas:
http://news.yahoo.com/shift-fossil-fuels-risks-popping-carbon-bubble-world-203433539.html
I think that is a cover for keeping electrical power supplies reliable at reasonable cost. And sticking with oil for transportation.
There is a 97% consensus in the US that angels exist. 😉
CO2 is a well mixed gas in our atmosphere. This is not an assumption it is a measurement – and it is not wrong. Do not be misled (though it’s not clear what difference it would make if it wasn’t).
NASA explains the apparent deviations month to month for anyone who cares to read them. These coincide with bush fires and seasonal crop burning for land clearance. This can be verified by correlating with fire locations from the earth Observatory
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/GlobalMaps/view.php?d1=MOD14A1_M_FIRE
For example. compare CO2 concentration for October 2014
http://s18.postimg.org/9sow40zo9/CO2_Concentration_October_2014.png
with ground fires visible from space for the same month
http://s30.postimg.org/owsc8ddcx/FIRE_October_2014.png
Pretty good correlation, Yes?
Well it all depends upon what is meant by well mixed, and in what context one is considering.
The other day, Ferdinand provided data that showed that CO2 is anything but well mixed at low altitude, and can vary significantly during the course of the day, throughout the month and seasonally. This variation could be more than 300ppm. I have not checked, but I seem to recall that he provided data showing CO2 measurements of about 300 ppm peaking to over 700ppm in the course of a day or so? This is more than a doubling of CO2!! So is that well mixed?
The significance of this may be, at what level does the bulk of DWLWIR take place? Is it within a few hundred metres of the surface, a thousand metres of the surface, or say 10,000 metres from the surface?
If it is as low altitude and if CO2 is not well mixed at low altitude (such that it can vary by more than double over short periods) then this has a bearing on the efficacy of the CO2 causing warming theory, and the testability of the theory.
Richard,
CO2 is not well mixed in the first few hundred meters over land, where the largest sources and sinks are, depending of wind speed which mixes it with the above air layers. That is about 5% of all air mass. In the bulk of the atmosphere, the other 95%, that is everywhere over the oceans and over land from a few hundred meters up to 30 km height, the levels are within +/- 8 ppmv (4% of full scale) for seasonal values to +/-2 ppmv (1% of full scale) for yearly averages, from near the North Pole (Barrow) to the South Pole.
Taking into account that some 20% (80 ppmv) goes in and out the atmosphere within a few months over the seasons, that means that CO2 is damn good and fast mixed.
One can make use of Modtran ( http://climatemodels.uchicago.edu/modtran/ ), a program that calculates how much energy is retained by GHGs. If you look at the radiation difference between 400 and 1000 ppmv in the “standard 1976 atmosphere”, looking down from 1 km height, the difference is 0.314 W/m2. A temperature increase of 0.1°C at ground level is sufficient to restore the outgoing radiation level…
Even that is overblown, as the variability is only over land (30% of the surface) and not constant 1000 ppmv over a full 1000 m. The influence of even high variability near ground above land on the radiation balance is simply negligible…
Ferdinand
Thank you for your further comments, they are appreciated and something to ponder on.
I have not clearly formulated in my mind what I think about CO2. I am wavering on whether it is contextual as to whether or not it is truly well mixed, and precisely what energy imbalance is said to have arisen and how and with what claimed effect.
That said, and whilst I consider that Mauna Loa was less than an ideal site for an observatory, I consider that the Mauna Loa CO2 data set is one of the better data sets available in Climate Science, and that it gives us a reasonable insight as to how CO2 levels have changed these past 50 or so years.
We paid $450,000,000 for that picture (OCO-1, OCO-2). Does anyone think it was worth it?
MikeB commented: “….Pretty good correlation, Yes?”
Yes. And if you let the video run through all the years it’s apparent that it’s consistent. It’s also seems that the CO2 is well mixed as the difference between max/min on their scale only represents about 4%.
Of one million air molecules on average 1.8 are methane molecules. On the methane bomb “problem”. I have to say, bring it on.
One gem from the IPCC meeting in Stockholm 2 years ago was when Thomas Stocker claimed that the heat increase from the 1950 to 2013 of the oceans between the surface and down to 700 meters was solid, showing a graph with a rapid increase of accumulated heat with a gigantic number in Joules. But, when this number is translate in Celsius then the increase from 1950 to 2013 turn out the be less then 0.1 degrees Celsius, which is much less than any possible error bar given the equipments that were in use.
MPP? Not the correct way Dr Tim. Draw parallel lines to each position line, at the “error” distance from each particular line. You get a cocked hat offset towards the most accurate position line, and you are probably in the center of that.
Reprise from 2012:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/06/02/what-can-we-learn-from-the-mauna-loa-co2-curve-2/#comment-1001541
Allan MacRae says: June 4, 2012 at 4:05 am
First, you totally miss the point of the urban CO2 readings – it’s about Ferdinand’s mass balance argument, which fails not only on a seasonal basis but even on a daily basis, imo.
FerdiEgb says: June 4, 2012 at 6:26 am
The mass balance must be always obeyed, no matter what happens where. But that is only calculatable on a yearly basis, as we only have yearly inventories of the emissions. Urban readings anyway are irrelevant for the mass balance, as are all readings in the lowest few hundred meters above land. That represents only 5% of the air mass where the CO2 is not well mixed due to a lot of local sources and sinks. In the rest of the global air mass, the yearly averaged measurements are all within 2 ppmv for the same hemisphere and 5 ppmv between the hemispheres, where the SH lags the NH but the trends are exactly the same:
http://www.ferdinand-engelbeen.be/klimaat/klim_img/co2_trends_1995_2004.jpg
_____________
You are missing the point Ferdinand. The SLC urban CO2 readings show that even a the typical SOURCE of manmade CO2 emissions (the URBAN environment), the natural system of photosynthesis and respiration dominates and there is NO apparent evidence of a human signature. If your premise was correct, you would see CO2 peaks at breakfast and supper times and the proximate (in time) morning and evening rush hours, when power demand and urban driving are at their maxima. This human signature is absent In the SLC data, and yet the natural signature is clearly apparent and predominant.
Similarly, in the AIRS animation I posted earlier, there is NO human signature and the power of nature is clearly evident. Here it is again.
http://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/vis/a000000/a003500/a003562/carbonDioxideSequence2002_2008_at15fps.mp4
These are huge natural DYNAMIC systems that are apparently NOT impacted by the relatively small human contribution. Sadly, Nature apparently just ignores our humanmade CO2 emissions, as irritating as that must be for you.
I know you have made up your mind on this point Ferdinand, and nothing will shake your belief. Try watching the George Carlin video again – George gets it. 🙂
Your statement that we do not see CO2 peaks at breakfast and supper times due to urban driving at maximum is interesting.
Before catalytic converters on cars we could see this very easily by measuring carbon monoxide in Los Angeles for example.
Sorry but still plenty of evidence of human signature for CO2 in large cities.
http://www.co2science.org/subject/u/summaries/urbanco2dome.php
I agree, at higher elevation (Mauna) we do not see this away from urban sites.
Allan,
All going well here, just back from a 4-weeks trip in the SW USA – visited lots of National Parks… Except for sometimes still much to hot temperature levels – South Arizona – marvelous trip…
Here a report of Diekirch, a nice small town in Luxembourg, where they measured CO2 and a lot of meteorological items over a few summer days. Chapter 4.1 shows the simultaneous measurements of a second CO2 peak during rush hours, the same moment that there is a peak in NO:
http://meteo.lcd.lu/papers/co2_patterns/co2_patterns.html
As I agree that the natural cycle is dominant, that is a cycle which only varies less than +/- 1 ppmv from year to year over the full cycle, while human emissions are currently 4.5 ppmv/year…
The AIRS data were too crude to detect human emissions and even the OCO-2 will need its best performance to show them. Which doesn’t mean that it isn’t the cause of the increase…
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/06/02/what-can-we-learn-from-the-mauna-loa-co2-curve-2/#comment-1000261
Hi Ferdinand,
I hope you are well.
For the record, I have no problem with CO2 measurement accuracy. The CO2 measurements at Barrow, Mauna Loa, the South Pole and many other sites correlate well and make sense.
Also, we don’t need to discuss yet again your “mass balance” argument – I will leave that to you and Richard C. I agree with Richard – the system just does not work the way you say it does.
Humanmade CO2 emissions are very small compared with natural CO2 flux, which is not only huge on a seasonal basis, but also huge on a daily basis.
I would really like you to be correct, because if you were, humanity would survive better than under my most probable scenario, which is moderate or severe global cooling.
The only impact I can see of humanmade CO2 emissions is that we are making little flowers happy.
To counter the wild claims of the global warming alarmists, I leave all of you with this note from George Carlin, and wish you a very pleasant Sunday. 🙂
Regards, Allan
Warning: Language.
George Carlin – “The Planet is Fine”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eScDfYzMEEw
George Carlin – “The Planet is Fine”
“Waterfowl numbers declined and farmers were blamed”
BWTM . . . They got double use out of it. Hunters were blamed as well. The theory was/is that spent lead shot was ingested by birds, and they died from lead poisoning. 5,000,000 a year (!) was the claim. Habeas corpus. That no one could produce a body was irrelevant to the regulators, and lead shot for waterfoul hunting was banned. Then declared a wonderful success. Lead shot is still banned for waterfoul.
Plenty of bodies were in evidence.
http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/publications/fact_sheets/pdfs/lead_poisoning_wild_birds_2009.pdf
I don’t consider the National Wildlife Health Center to be a reliable source.
You said that no-one could produce a body, clearly they did! Here’s an X-ray showing two ducks with their crops full of shot.
http://cdn.phys.org/newman/csz/news/800/2014/waterfowlpoi.jpg
Splain the other shot in their bodies.
They didn’t die from shot in their craws.
Mods
My comment is in the bin. Please get it out.
Here is my point. Are there more cattle today, in the USA than there were Bison in the 17-18th centuries? (before cars, I note.) Reputedly there were millions and millions of bison in North America. Did they release methane too? Seems to me that cattle merely replace the existing “natural” herds.
Yes, overall, methane emissions from bison, elk, and deer in the pre-settlement period in the contiguous United States were about 70% (medium bison population size) of the current emissions from farmed ruminants in the U.S.
http://extension.psu.edu/animals/dairy/news/2011/wild-ruminants-burp-methane-too
Reblogged this on Climatism and commented:
Fantastic read.
Dr Tim Ball maps out the historical proliferation of ‘methane (CH4)’ alarmism via governments and activist groups, highlighting the economic and social damage that such environmental misinformation and hysteria inflicts on our lives.
Ergo, CO2 alarmism…
Reblogged this on My Thoughts Today and commented:
Very interesting and revealing piece I hadn’t yet seen on my WUWT feed, shared to Facebook by friend Mick Wenlock where I saw it.
The story was that methane was a small percentage of the greenhouse gases, but much more effective than CO2 or H2O. It is a meaningless measure because
“The infrared absorption bands of methane, at wavelengths of roughly 3 and 8 microns, are overlain by absorption from water vapor. But once the water vapor absorbs the radiation in these bands, there is really nothing left for methane to absorb. So the estimates of methane being 20-70 times more effective per molecule than CO2 (as estimated by IPCC), or that methane forcing is 20% of CO2 forcing, as shown in various IPCC reports, makes absolutely no sense.”
The statement about water vapor absorbing and there being nothing left for methane to absorb in those bands is incorrect. In the 8 micron band there are very few, narrow, weak absorbing lines due to water compared with a large number of stronger bands due to methane.
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn107/Sprintstar400/WaterCH4.gif
Show me some graphs showing the total amount available in reality-land, in each of those “micro bands” of emissions absorbed by methane, after water vapor has done it’s absorption number on them, and I’ll look carefully. This, just does not seem very relevant to what was said, to my mind, Phil.
Well it’s extremely relevant since water vapor can’t ‘do it’s absorption number’ without having spectral lines which overlap with the CH4 lines, in this region of the spectrum it’s CH4 that does its number on the water vapor.
Thanks for the Carlin Save the Planet. I actually saw that on HBO and laughed my self silly. Sorry he is not with us now. I’m sure he would put the current circumstances in perspective.
Thanks, Dr. Ball. Good article.
I agree we don’t have data necessary to even formulate climate theories, let alone reaching conclusions and making predictions.
Some basic things we know: CO2 is plant food, water vapor is the most powerful GHG. We don’t know the warming effect of the present-days increment (the sensitivity of the climate system).
If the CO2 sensitivity is around 1~2°C there’s no measurable global temperature increase above natural variations, like ENSO.
The militant vegans want us to stop eating meat to “save the planet”, or so they say. So what are we to do with all the food animals? Set them free? Kill them all wastefully?
I’d like to explain to them that all the vegetarian hominid species died out and the omnivorous ones survived. But they’re just another doomsday cult religion on the wrong side of evolution.
Amazing how many “green” folk claim to worship Nature, but instead want Nature to conform to their fantasies. A mere human never tells a goddess what to do. That’s the ultimate disrespect.
There are a lot of discussions on natural CO2 emissions verses manmade CO2.
Leaving aside de-forestation, slash and burn etc (and leaving aside the scientific issue as to whether there is any measurable Climate Sensitivity to CO2), isn’t the issue simply the following:
Would today’s current CO2 of about 400 ppm, be the same or would it be less if man had not been burning fossil fuels these past 100 or so years?
Where I consider the matter becomes difficult is to answer by how much has man increased atmospheric CO2 levels.
Is Man responsible for the entire increase from say about 270ppm to about 400 ppm on the basis that whilst carbon sinks have been expanding, their rate of expansion has not kept pace with manmade emissions such that they have been unable to sink and sequester only part of manmade emissions?
Or is man only responsible for about 3 to 4% of that increase on the basis that the manmade component of the carbon cycle is only about 3 to 4% of the total carbon cycle.
Personally, I consider that a difficult question to answer since we have insufficient data about the carbon cycle and in particular the carbon sources and the carbon sinks. At best we have insight on a composite basis, ie., the net difference between sources and sinks rather than details of each individual component.
What we do not know is whether the natural carbon sources have been increasing year on year and by what amount. Unless we are able to clarify that, as I see matters, we are unable to answer whether man is responsible for only about 3 to 4% of the increase in total CO2, or whether he is responsible for all the increase.
richard,
“What we do not know is whether the natural carbon sources have been increasing year on year and by what amount. Unless we are able to clarify that, as I see matters, we are unable to answer whether man is responsible for only about 3 to 4% of the increase in total CO2, or whether he is responsible for all the increase.”
What I do not know is why our lack of ability to “answer” such a question, is significant beyond noting that neither are the people calling for forcing any sort of reparation/mitigation payments out of billions of human beings.
It ain’t up to me to prove I didn’t rain on your parade, so to speak, if you start saying I’m responsible for the showers, it seems to me. Nor do I feel my inability to demonstrate I didn’t throw the Earth into a heated tantrum, is in any sense an indictment against me in that regard . . The burden of proof clearly rests with the persecutors in such cases, not whomever they happen to start persecuting, right?
“Speculating with No Data”
That is the best kind of speculating. The more data we have, the less freedom we have to speculate. (Unless we ignore it.)
Why are you trying to deny us our freedom?
Thank you, Tim Ball, for this excellent post. I’d like, however, to bring to your attention that I treated the claim of livestock husbandry and meat consumption driving climate change in a number of publications: Here they are:
http://www.davidpublishing.com/davidpublishing/Upfile/5/8/2014/2014050882981745.pdf
http://tropicalgrasslands.info/index.php/tgft/article/view/144/92
http://www.pastoralismjournal.com/content/4/1/1
http://livestocknutrition.conferenceseries.com/abstract/2015/reconsidering-livestock-s-role-in-climate-change
In this very moment I am with the Five Nations Beef Alliance annual conference in Mex-ico (Durango). On Friday I’ll give a talk in which the question of climate hazards through livestock will be a central issue.