Guest essay by Eric Worrall
Pope Francis has demanded skeptics renounce climate skepticism, and affirmed his support for strongly partisan initiatives such as the EPA Clean Air Initiative.
According to The Guardian;
In a tougher-than-expected call for action on global warming, the spiritual leader of more than 70 million American Catholics defied calls among some Republicans to steer clear of politics by making clear he believed this was a moral issue.
“Climate change is a problem which can no longer be left to a future generation,” said the pope, who invited contrast with the civil rights struggle by invoking the spirit of Martin Luther King Jr in support of his argument.
…
“Mr President, I find it encouraging that you are proposing an initiative for reducing air pollution,” the pope said with a slow, deliberate delivery that left little room for misinterpretation.
The following is a full video of the speech at the White House
His Holiness has ignored approaches, from those who have sought in good faith to present other viewpoints.
It seems ironic, that the Church effort to repeat the mistakes of the past, occurs on the 500th anniversary of a letter written by Galileo. The letter explains in simple terms, why the Church’s efforts to define scientific truth , to quash scientific uncertainty with religious moral authority, were so misguided. Words of wisdom, which are as applicable today, as there were when Galileo wrote them (quote courtesy of Dr. Willie Soon);
Therefore let these men begin to apply themselves to an examination of the arguments of Copernicus and others, leaving condemnation of the doctrine as erroneous and heretical to the proper authorities. Among the circumspect and most wise Fathers, and in the absolute wisdom of one who cannot err, they may never hope to find the rash decisions into which they allow themselves to be hurried by some particular passion or personal interest. With regard to this opinion, and others which are not directly matters of faith, certainly no one doubts that the Supreme Pontiff has always an absolute power to approve or condemn; but it is not in the power: of any created being to make things true or false, for this belongs to their own nature and to the fact. Therefore in my judgment one should first be assured of the necessary and immutable truth of the fact, over which no man has power. This is wiser counsel than to condemn either side in the absence of such certainty, thus depriving oneself of continued authority and ability to choose by determining things which are now undetermined and open and still lodged in the will of supreme authority. And in brief, if it is impossible for a conclusion to be declared heretical while we remain in doubt as to its truth, then these men are wasting their time clamoring for condemnation of the motion of the earth and stability of the sun, which they have not yet demonstrated to be impossible or false…
Read more: http://genius.com/Galileo-galilei-letter-to-the-grand-duchess-christina-annotated
Given that to date climate alarmists, whose claims are based on computer models, have failed to produce a model which can predict the climate, it seems fair to suggest things are still very much undetermined and open.
Update – Video link updated, the original video was removed by the user who posted it.
The Catholic church had their chance to run things a few hundred years ago, and they botched it. This guy should stay out of politics and concentrate on cleaning up the ample problems existing in his own organization.
The whole idea of a man who considers himself “infallible,” as the figurehead of a medieval organization devoted to magical thinking, being consulted on a SCIENTIFIC subject should be ignored for the absurdity it is. The data stands on its own merit; without the Pope’s endorsement or that of any head of state, for that matter. THAT’S what we must continue to shout from the rooftops.
I notice that all of the atheists and hard core lefties who pooh-pooh anybody who is religious and use that as “proof” that they don’t know anything about science are suddenly embracing the Pope as the new Climate Change oracle. You can’t make this stuff up anymore, and they claim satire is dead.
Keitho…Spot On!
The Pope clearly has no faith in the universe God created if he believes all those things He gave to us to use can harm it.
+100
Francis has chosen Cardinal George Pell as his cleanup guy. He is effectively a tough, new financial controller for the Church. He is also a well-informed Aussie climate skeptic. Ignore the Guardian and keep an eye on Pell!
IF the Pope was a Catholic, he could not take the positions he takes on current issues, and IF the Pope was religious, thus believed in God, the same would be true. Thus, since he has taken positions that run counter to the “book” that his supposed faith is based on, one has to guess that either he is not a Catholic, does not believe in God, has no faith in the book upon which his faith is blessed, or has decided that he transcends them. My guess is that it falls to the first, not the second, but then again, I guess they could be considered the same.
I wonder if the Pope is as concerned about the ongoing slaughter in his own neighborhood, or is he worried that he might be labeled a Crusader? Can’t offend that religion of peace eh? At the present rate I would expect to see the minarets go up at St. Paul’s shortly. Welcome to the Inquisition, Part Deux.
Just call me Galileo Galilei, or does the Pope know any history?
I realized years ago that if there really is some higher power, it is unlikely to be in the form of a man who lives in the sky. I become more convinced of this with each passing day.
The conclusion is that the pope has confirmed ‘climate science alarmism’ as a religion. It was about time. The real scientists can now proceed with their good work. It may be another 400 years before the church changes its stance.
Uh, he is the Pope – therefore espousing a faith-based initiative should come as no surprise.
It is disappointing however, since his stance would directly influence much of the World’s poor in an adverse manner.
That’s what most religions are good at … keeping people poor and ignorant. Better pay up if you want to go to heaven.
+100!
Don’t forget ‘guilt ridden’ along with poor and ignorant.
It really is sad when bigots go out of their way to display their ignorance.
I not a bigot, I’m just stating a fact. Much like the religion of AGW. Present the evidence and still the true believers have their heads in the sand. The evidence in this case is that every prediction made has failed . Is that science or a belief system? For the record, I am deeply spiritual. I can hold 2 different ideas at the same time, simply because what I know is incomplete and what I feel is different than what I think. Paying homage to an Inman or priest, no so much. I can read and think also. They aren’t heavens royal messengers to me.
I find it ironic that among all the pomp and circumstance that is normally reserved for the most celebrated of us mere mortals, we have the leading compassionate marxist proclaim to the leadership of the free World that free market-capitalist fortitude is BAD but, adulation of idols and covetousness of the successful is GOOD! Can I get an Amen from all the secular progressives?
Don’t agree. You are confusing religion and churches, and they are not the same. You are referring to churches.
I’m not confused. The meaning is quite clear. The arguments with AGW, I don’t consider them debates, have been about nitpicking. It snows or freaking cold, that s weather. It’s hot somewhere, evidence of global warming. One is climate and the other weather, depending on how the argument is turning.
Yes
rishrac,
” I am deeply spiritual. I can hold 2 different ideas at the same time…?”
To me, it seems quite clear that many terms which we see everyday in the news and such, have been intentionally warped and essentially “mythologized” beyond recognition in various ways, such as “climate denier” for one rather obvious example to those who follow this site, by people who have agendas which involve manipulating us in various ways, and who have some degree of control over what I’ll call cumulatively; the “mass media” systems. .
I think most here can grasp (to say the least) that this is going on now, but may fail to grasp that it’s quite possible, indeed I say extremely probable, that this has been going on for a very long time. As in, before we realized such “linguistic” manipulation was going on at all, in the mass media systems.
We have been “conditioned” I believe, through the mass media, to think of religion as an essentially irrational form of human thought/behavior, based on things like “blind faith” and feelings and ideas that adherents are strongly attached to in a sort of slavish way. But this is a linguistic trick, it seems to me, which often results in a sort of slavish attachment to the idea that one is not “religious” at all.
You speak of “climate science” as having become a religion, and I agree it has. I also think science in general has become a religion, which I am a “member” of, and virtually everyone commenting here is too . . Because we share a common faith in what Mr. Newton called “the experimental philosophy”, and believe many things it has “revealed” and “preached” are truth, in a universal sense. I am not an adherent of the “science as incorruptible quasi entity” sense, in the “scientific community as virtual priestly class” sense. To me that is false religion, as in belief in something that is not real/true.
If one drops the “conditioning” I believe we have all been subjected to since birth, so to speak, and allows the term to simply mean a belief system one adheres to/practices “religiously”, regardless of whether any particular sort of Entity is involved, one can see that all people are religious in various ways. The term then loses much of it’s manipulative value/power, and we can speak rationally about what we believe in and why, without all the divisiveness our “manipulators on high” are surely quite pleased to see us entangled in, as I see the world I find myself in.
So, yes I say, one can hold two different ideas at the same time, and still be quite rational and logical and sane, even if the mass media manipulators speak as though one must chose between various “belief systems” they offer up as though mutually exclusive alternatives.
And, dispense with much of the rancor and strife that our “programmed” images might cause us to become mired in, because we “paint with broad brushes” as they do. The will call someone a Christian, Muslim, scientist, conservative, liberal, etc, etc . . as though those were clear and distinct signify, which is simply not true. And, may be a literal lie, as in the “wolf in sheep’s clothing” sort of deception my Lord describes and warns about.
To me, no one is a Christian, until I see that they actually strive to do as Jesus instructs in a particular Book, regardless of what they tell me about their religion(s). And that’s because i have been warned that many will come, and say he is Christ, with a lying tongue and a deceitful heart. To me, the Pope is just a man, and I don’t assume in any way that he is a follower of my Lord, period. It is literally a sin to me (missing the mark), to assume such thing.
It’s strictly a “show me” stance I take, because talk is cheap, and I am a grown man, not an infant, and I live on a planet infested with habitual liars . . one of whom is writing these words, worm that I am, of no account or wisdom of my own.
It’s been changed to doubter. I consider myself a critic, not a doubter, skeptic, or deinier.
I was a critic for a while, now I’m more of an unbeliever. It is not logically possible to my mind, that warming routinely leads to increased atmospheric CO2 (as the ice core record seems to me to be quite clear about), and that increased CO2 routinely leads to further warming.
That’s a surefire recipe for hell on earth, and the joint would have long ago become dominated by such a “feedback loop” of mutually reinforcing globe-wide effects, by any logic I can muster. CO2 simply cannot be such a “poison pill” in this planet’s system, as far as I’m concerned.
PS, Not saying those with the science chops ought to stop being critics, but I’m a logic/philosophy guy, so I can’t really be much use in the “technical” realms. I’ve been fighting in the “civilian” trenches, where I could be of some use exposing the “civilian” side of the scamming. Stuff like this Pope deal I can handle, but not the heavy duty math/model/data crunching kinda things.
Pope Che the 1st.
Right on!
The Commie “Liberation Theologists” have at least temporarily won the day by their palace coup against a real Catholic to install a Marxist pope. But IMO it won’t last.
JohnWho,
“It is disappointing however, since his stance would directly influence much of the World’s poor in an adverse manner.”
(The “matter of faith” aspect is somewhat nebulous/difficult to me, since it seems absolutely clear that science is in fact a “faith-based” belief system, which I happen to hold as (potentially) valid/informative, because I believe the time/space continuum (and all that it consists of), is constrained in numerous extremely precise and consistent ways. I really don’t see how anyone could truthfully deny they are routinely making faith-based judgments and assessments in the scientific realms of knowledge . . for it seems rather self evident to me that no man has a mind that can rightly be spoken of as dealing in absolute truth or fact (beyond perhaps the sort of “I think, therefore I am” level, anyway).)
I am not disappointed in what this man has done, properly speaking, because I fully expected it, for various reasons. I do however agree with what to me is a very revealing aspect of what is inevitably going to happen to the cost of food and other basic necessities which many human beings can barely manage to acquire for their own and their families’ very survival.
The only reason I can’t rightly accuse those “on high” who are pushing this “global warming” agenda mass murderers altogether, is because I cannot be absolutely certain which persons are knowingly advocating for the suffering and deaths of (I believe) many millions, and which are simply ignorant of the repercussions of adding substantial costs onto a broad range of goods. I cannot believe that no one at the UN or in our Governments thought about this . . it’s absurd to me to think this is not well understood by a great many in positions of authority/power.
To me, the whole “global warming” scare is an obvious snow-job so to speak, for many reasons, and I believe it has been promulgated mostly by con artists. I have examined the evidence and logics involved (to a great extent), and find no good reason to think atmospheric CO2 is “driving” much of anything about our climate(s).
And for this Pope fellow to call it “pollution”, is to me a slander against God Himself, Whom I believe (as this man ostensibly does) Created this world, and within which that gas is vital for life itself, beyond any “scientific” doubt. That One knows what He is doing, and the concept that He set the earth balanced on a virtual razors edge, such that some infinitesimal alteration in the composition of the atmosphere could send it into a thermal death spiral, amounts to calling Him an idiot, to me.
Eric you are off the rails.
The Pope is following the dominant view of climate science, the opposite of what the church was accused of in Galileo’s time.
The allusion to the “Galileo Affair” isn’t even logical.
Can you expand on your point?
It is. Once again, the Roman Catholic Church is pretending to have authority as to what is “true” and “not true.” There are significant issues with the “facts” that some activist scientists are proffering as well as huge issues with the solutions that politicians and activists are offering in response.
The Roman Catholic Church is also again going down the path of political interference. Each time they have done so in the past they enjoyed a brief surge of popularity and membership, but that was followed by a long period of slow decline.
The Pope is a man. The wrong man in any position is always a problem.
I’m not sure that science (climate or other) has a ‘view’.
Now that I’m a Doubter, I doubt that the pope knows very much science, his chem tech diploma notwithstanding; he appears to know politics, however.
The science is a convenient cloak for the agenda of world control. Those who control the energy resources of the world will have a choke-hold on every other market, to destroy at will. I tried to warn my church with this poem, but was rebuffed and chided for “not agreeing on the principal of climate change”. It is a revamped version of the one I wrote pertaining to the Pope.
An Ode to the Church
On Fighting Climate Change
Fear provoking ‘global planners’
Speak in agitated manners,
Predicating great disaster:
“Climate change we now must master!”
Human fault and shame beseeching:
“Children, guilt we should be teaching!
Man has sinned, by overreaching
Fragile Gaia’s limit!”
Beware this new theology,
And future woes it claims to see.
The firmaments cannot yet be
Controlled by mortal hands.
So, “fix this world” as best you can,
But first, care for your fellow man!
The earth will then be more as God has planned.
All creation is God’s and He alone
Commands the elements He owns,
Perplexes any man’s control,
Yet still, provides for every soul!
I think it is quite biblically well supported. I’m gathering scripture references which support it before trying again on the preacher (along with presenting him climate science facts he is ignorant of).
Dawtgtomis
Very good stuff for a very good cause it seems to me, thank you.
(An offering of sorts perhaps: The earth will then bloom as God has planned )
Paul Westhaver,
“The Pope is following the dominant view of climate science, the opposite of what the church was accused of in Galileo’s time.”
In both situations the church makes faith-based statements of what is and what is not physical reality. I suppose you would still see the two situations as opposite if you think today’s climate consensus is based on real science rather than politics. Copernicus’ Heliocentric model works pretty well, while CAGW models have proven useless for forecasting. See the difference? Alluding to the “Galileo affair” is perfectly logical.
The Galileo/Catholic church issue is generally misunderstood. This will help:
http://tofspot.blogspot.com/2013/08/the-great-ptolemaic-smackdown.html?_sm_au_=i5VF4657F1fjt223
Paul Westhaver, The allusion to the “Galileo Affair” is perfectly logical : the pope then was following the dominant view of science as it was then, opposing the rational opinions from Galileo. Popes should keep thier noses out of politics and science and concentrate on the spiritual domain where the can speak with some more authority.
Everyone has authority on spirituality. Anyone and everyone can author anything thing they want concerning spirituality, and no one is ever wrong!
Have you been touched by his Noodly Appendage?
The Pope is following the dominant view of climate science, the opposite of what the church was accused of in Galileo’s time.
==============
incorrect.
The Church was supporting the dominant consensus view, that the sun and planets revolved around the earth. Galileo was supporting the skeptical minority view, that the earth and planets revolved around the sun.
The Catholic Church tends to incorporate animist beliefs into its various brands of folk-Catholicism. Unusual though, for a pope to urge global acceptance of one such set of animist beliefs, particularly one with a demonstrated strong aversion to tenets of Christian theology.
The Catholic Church works with national and local governments throughout the entire world on maintaining and expanding their schools, hospitals and various social outreach programs often with government funding.
It is in the best interest of the Catholic Church to work with governments to ensure the flow of money continues and increases. Global Warming is a Money Maker.
Wrong. It’s doing exactly what it did in Galileo’s time, and as usual, is just as wrong.
In the early 17th century, the Church defended the biblically based consensus, just as it now defends the politically correct consensus. It’s just as wrong now as it was then.
This pope has even less justification than the popes who persecuted Galileo.
The more times change, the more they stay the same.
Pontiff Pilot.
LOL
Now that’s funny.
Seems as if His Holiness puts man before God, that mankind controls his destiny and not God.
I truly wish he wouldn’t do this…..it calls into question all of his judgements
What? As if!
“but numerous scientific studies indicate that most of the global warming in recent decades it is due to the large concentration of greenhouse gases (carbon dioxide, methane, nitrogen oxide and others) mainly emitted due to human activity.”
…while the opposite is true
The Vatican is air-conditioned. All is well.
=============
And won’t be losing theirs, even while they demand that everyone else go without.
The Vatican must be air-conditioned to reduce CO2 and humidity damage from all those tourists tramping through the
PristineSistine Chapel.No kidding.
I don’t think the Pope resides in the Sistine Chapel or Vatican Archives. His air-conditioned residence is a separate building.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/pope-francis-air-conditioning-climate-change-encyclical
Air conditioning transfers heat from indoors to outdoors, converting electricity to additional heat in the process. If the Pope refuses to give up his air conditioning while insisting others do so, the message to the poor is clear: “Eat my heat, sukkas!”
“initiative for reducing air pollution,” So, the Pope, like the President, does not have a clue that CO2 is NOT pollution.
This ‘fact’ is not lost on many, but unfortunately the demand for RICO is aimed at shutting them down as well.
http://moonbattery.com/graphics/obama-francis-on-board.jpg
This is beyond interference. This is Inquisition-vintage totalitarianism. It’s coming unleashed on society everywhere. And meanwhile the scourge of unheard-of proportions has landed on Europe….and soon to arrive on North America’s shores. And everybody will be wringing their hands in Paris while Rome Falls.
Pretty Neat, huh?
This problem carries the seeds of it’s own solution. Will we grasp the opportunity?
No, it isn’t. The worst thing about Inquisition was that ACTION followed words, and in very nasty ways. Here I see words but no action will follow as the Church is quite powerless (fortunately).
And BTW IMO it is not even “interference”. Expressing an opinion is not interference. Actions have to follow for it to be an interference. Saying “those who don’t do this will be excomulgated / punished in some way by the Church” would be interference. “Everybody should do this” is not.
The dead mutilated and violated bodies of agnostics and atheists after crucifixion and beheading, just like in Saudi Arabia, will not appease the blood thrust and power mongering of this Latin Pope.
My intelligent and thoughtful catholic friends are in despair at this idiot.
Hopefully he is the last one…pg
Probably the last Pope; probably not the last idiot.
@p.g.sharrow
If Nostradamus and St Malachy are to be believed – he is the last one.
http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/pope-francis-pontiff-nostradamus-stmalachy/2013/03/14/id/494661/
When I was 8 years old I was a skeptic of the infallibility of the Pope. The Catholic school sisters were not pleased with my attitude. At 69 I am still a skeptic of any authorities infallibility, even a pope…pg
I am not skeptical on authority of infallibility, as skepticism can imply uncertainty, and I am completely certain that no one is infallible.
…and he goes on to say that everyone wants to live on a clean planet
If that’s so….why are the rich clean countries giving money to undeveloped countries..to clean them up
Read about it on the White House facebook page and all the inane comments. They don’t like fact checking. https://stream.org/whats-true-whats-false-obamas-global-warming-claims/
The Guardian today also carried an article claiming that Paul Ehrlich says that the Pope’s climate push is raving nonsense without population control. I blogged as follows:
“All activist scientists lose touch with both scientific objectivity and reality. This was Ehrlich in 1971:
“By the year 2000 the United Kingdom will be simply a small group of impoverished islands, inhabited by some 70 million hungry people … If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000.”
On the other hand the Pope is an authority on religious fantasy, so catastrophic climate change is right up his street”
It dropped a pebble in the pond.
From today’s Wall Street Journal …
… Pope Francis is becoming an aggressive public player in secular politics, from the environment to economic policy. That carries risks, not for Francis alone, but for the papacy and the institution the pope leads.
It is said widely that Francis will never allow himself to be co-opted into anyone else’s political agenda. The pope is famously his own man. But the pope has no control over whether he is co-opted into the political goals and strategies of others.
A TV commercial airing this week from NextGen Climate Action, funded by billionaire environmental activist Tom Steyer, unfurls frightening images of wildfires and floods and ends with Francis waving and smiling at us over the words, “With compassion and love—Pope Francis.” It’s propaganda, but legitimate propaganda by current standards.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-politicized-pope-1443047131
I’ve just come across a transcript of a speech given by Pope Pius X when he attended the 1904 Olympic Games in St Louis. He spoke in support of the EPA action of the time to ban horse poop in the streets of the US. He said that ‘Horse poop is a problem which can no longer be left to a future generation’ and invited contrast with the Civil War struggle by invoking the spirit of Abraham Lincoln in support of his argument.
He’s had years of practice believing the unbelievable. I don’t think it is part of his job description to be the sharpest knife in the block. He seems a gullible fool to me. And a danger to the poor of the world.
I don’t understand why the Pope has adopted the stalking horse of the culture of death. His actions are embarrassing from a science perspective and fly directly in the face of the teachings of Saint John Paul II.
The pseudo science of climate catastrophe is a religion to some. Apparently Francis has decided to lead us into this religion
Perhaps God is fixing the Earth by replenishing CO2 to a higher level that is beneficial to all the plants that were created by him/her/it. Perhaps the Pope is in conflict with God’s plan and doesn’t even know it.
The fundamental problem that I see with this pope is his sole mates seems to be those who share his politics rather than his theology.
Rent-a-Pope
Resourceguy,
Exactly. Popes have been rented for untold centuries. Rent-a-Pope is a big part of their business model. Pope Francis eschews capitalism at the same time as the Catholic Church comprises one of richest (and corrupt) corporations on the planet.
A prayer for the Pope on his visit to the U.S.
Dear God. We come to you in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ with praise and thanksgiving.
We thank you for a bountiful harvest, that thanks to the increase in CO2 levels since the industrial revolution provides food for an additional 2 billion people without starving. (1)
We thank you that the earth is getting greener, so that a wider variety of plants and animals can find habitat. (2)
We praise you for the clouds You put in the sky on the second day of creation that act as the thermostat of the earth so there is a cap on how warm it will get, especially in the tropics that has found its stable temperature. (3)
We thank you for the warming in the temperate regions since the little Ice Age, making wheat farming possible way up in Canada. (4)
We thank you that this warming causes less hurricanes,(5) less tornadoes,(6) less winter storms,(7) gives more rain(8) and less droughts.(9)
And we thank you for the increase in CO2 that is delaying the onset of the coming Ice Age.(10)
And we thank you there is a inexhaustible supply of Thorium, suitable for sustainable and distributed nuclear power so that the energy needs of the future is not dependent on fossil fuel.(11)
And now, we ask you, God to protect the Pope’s soul from the evil forces waiting him in Washington and the United Nations.
They will talk a lot about Carbon Pollution, with which they mean CO2. CO2 is not a pollutant, but real pollution is a great threat to our well being and deeds to be combated at all levels. This takes large amount of energy to clean up the environment, and is made more difficult by making energy more expensive, so please, God, make the Pope see through all their lies.
And please Lord, make the Pope realize their predictions of doom come from failed climate models (12)
He has a meeting with godless and anti-Christian people who advocate Global Governance and the merging of all religions under this secular government.(13)
Jesus never said: Do as the Romans do, but this Pope is in danger of allying himself with these forces and agenda 2030, The New World Order.(14)
Lord, may all Christians heed Your calling in 2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
And Lord, may there be a revival among all who trust in the finished work on the Cross, and follow the Lord, Jesus Christ, and may there be an awakening that the battle is spiritual, and Global Governance leads to even more tyranny,
And God, we thank you as in Lamentations 3:22-23 Because of the LORD’s great love we are not consumed, for his compassions never fail. They are new every morning; great is your faithfulness.
And we pray this in the Name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Amen.
And now for the explanations: (in progress) http://lenbilen.com/2015/09/22/a-prayer-for-the-pope-on-his-visit-to-the-u-s/
Amen, lenbilen. A very fine prayer indeed, I feel.
The Pope’s comment today in his address to congress regarding avoiding looking at things as good or evil is too much hinting of moral relativism for my liking. Being too judgemental is obviously to be avoided but in the end there is, indeed, good and there is, indeed, evil. While he says this he at the same time makes judgements regarding something much less clear, like the cause of global warming, still not proven scientifically and obviously politically driven towards the forced redistribution of wealth. Taxes are also not charity as they are, in the end, at the point of a gun. Finally, to make these pronouncements aimed at the raising of the plight of those less fortunate while the Church is one of the most wealthy organizations in the world rings somewhat hypocritical. Jesus said to the rich man who asked what he needed to do to get into heaven, “sell everything you own and give it to the poor, then come and follow me”. There was much good in what he said but too much political advice, no matter how politely offered.
Since the cost of the Papal visit to Philly alone is estimated at $48 million, it’s not exactly a donkey ride into the city gates with some palm fronds thrown down.
On arrival in the US on a very large aircraft:
King James Bible Luke 20:46
<blockquote)Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;
Bugger! COLD morning fingers in ‘sunny’ South Australia
Next up, labor union over reach tactics, high speed rail projects, and automatic expansion of the debt ceiling. Why bother with addressing Congress, since it is bypassed at this point in exec order over reach?
Paul Westhaver…”The Pope is following the dominant view of climate science, the opposite of what the church was accused of in Galileo’s time.”
No, I believe it is right on target. The largest majority DID NOT believe Galileo and so forth just like our situation now with AGW skeptics, The current Climastrologists are the new inquisition, and this Pope, perhaps even like the one of their time, believes their assertions are correct. But most especially because the solutions they propose would SEEM (are at least represented) to be in favor of the poorest. But you cannot expect the Pope to be a proper scientist, again he is being willfully mislead by improper and unethical ones. I think if he were truly aware that the damage inflicted was detrimental to the poor, he would certainly be against it, as its supposed help for the poor is probably the main reason he cares at all.
I am a Catholic (spare me your off topic rants please) and a well informed skeptic. This (thankfully) does not fall under the cloak of infallibility as recognised by the Pope himself. So he openly admits he may be wrong. But his office is political, and his next most important job is politics, it is just poorly understanding non-catholics who think otherwise. I do wish he were on the correct side of this issue, but it is perfectly understandable why he is not.
Don’t understand why the pope considers “the solutions they propose would SEEM (are at least represented) to be in favor of the poorest”. Reality says it is the exact opposite. Cheap, reliable energy with infrastructure (sewage systems, clean water, and electricity) allow the poor to raise their standard of living.
The seeming benefit to the poor comes from the annual wealth transfers to the undeveloped countries that the UN wants them to be paid. Some of that money would go to Catholic charities, etc., in those countries. Third world cardinals, now a majority, are strongly in favor of this redistribution. So was Peron, wihin Argentina.
PS: In the Third World, the governments, media, and populations are strongly in favor of receiving transfer payments from the UN. If the pope were to throw cold water on those hopes, it would lose popularity and its flock would shrink That had to worry the Vatican. That’s probably why skeptics were shut out of its confabs. They don’t want to be embarrassed. Later, when this scare abates, the Vatican will blame Science for leading it, and the world, astray.
After the Pope, what’s left on the list to manipulate like a sock puppet? Siri, IBM’s Watson, and maybe the satellite data.
Come on now. When was the last time a pope has been wrong?
I was drinking with a bunch of Catholics last night, (fund raiser for Catholic School Sports), and none of them voiced any support for the current Pope. Almost universally they “longed for the days of another John-Paul II.”
When a bunch of progressive autocrats show more support for the Pope than the members of the faith then you know something is rotten in the Vatican.
If the pope (1st ‘p’ not cap on purpose) had substituted ‘government debt’ in place of climate change, then: Gov’t Debt is a problem which can no longer be left to a future generation, would reflect reality.
The divine mystery of Virgin Birth
The divine mystery of Transubstantiation
The divine mystery of the Holy Trinity
The divine mystery of CO2 induced Global Warming.
Now don’t knock it, I’m a Catholic myself
The last one may soon join the other divine mysteries of the Catholic Faith
These are to be believed by the power of faith
They are obviously not subject to the materialist tests of science and instead are sincerely held beliefs of the faithful which should be respected.
It is not written in my Book that I “should” respect everything that anyone happens to hold sacred, Bryan . . pretty much the opposite. The persons themselves, certainly, but not every belief held to be sacred, by every one on earth. Do you respect the sincerely held beliefs of those in other religions that profess our Lord was just a man, for instance? How can that be, if you have a sincerely held belief that he was far more, which you hold sacred?
You’ve got a Pope who can perhaps “do something” about these words …
~ Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ~
… but I don’t. And many millions of other Christians don’t. I cannot agree that any other way leads to the Father. Do you see where this is headed?
The Pope allowed himself to be easily hijacked by a socialist crusade instead of dealing w/so many real and pressing issues. Sad.
This Pope IS a socialist crusade.
I think if your goal is to reduce air pollution because it is unhealthy, then claiming we need to reduce pollution to stop global warming is counterproductive in my mind. Too many people think man made global warming is exaggerated, has a scam aspect to it, and is not a real problem. So they will think a call to reduce air pollution is unnecessary if the need is expressed as a measure to stop global warming. And the arrogance to say we can stop the climate from changing by controlling our inputs into the atmosphere is also a turnoff to those who know the truth.
We have an anti-American POTUS, catolics have an anti-catolic pope.
Latitude “above” is 100% spot on. This affects the whole church of which I can no longer be a member because of this. LOL
Hey, Mr. Pope !! Think of all the poor people you could have fed if you had just stayed in the Vatican !!!
This guy is no John Paul II. How about addressing the ‘science’ of killing babies? SMH
Did anyone notice the altar boys from GreenPeace? Or the large green pod being disposed of out back?
Climate change hysteria is a problem which can no longer be left to a future generation. It has already done great damage to mankind, and if allowed to continue, will do even greater harm.
I have a dream; that someday soon, the climate nonsense being promulgated by Climate Liars and those who have clambered aboard the Climate Gravy Train for monetary, political, and ego purposes will finally be stopped, so that real problems can once again be addressed instead of an imaginary one.
Too bad the pope couldn’t have said something like that instead of being one of the Climate Liars.
Is it too much to ask to have our world leaders show just a little bit of education on the issues they call for global action on? Just acknowledge some basic facts to show some kind of foundation of reality before they start proposing global economic policies. If the Pope or Obama would start out by saying “Most of our planets history has been spent without year round ice at its poles. Right now we have massive land ice sheets on Greenland and Antarctica that last all year, and we are still in an ice age, despite the moderate temperatures we enjoy. So the planet is coming out of an ice age and slowly heading towards a condition that is consistent with the majority of the history of our planet, and that is no ice at either pole during the summers of those hemispheres. But… what we need to do, is keep the planet’s climate where it is, because we like it where it is…” If they started their political agenda speeches like that, I would respect more what they have to say, because right now they sound like idiots without a clue on the subject they are talking about.
Steve,
For the one millionth time, it is not about any science. It is about control. AGW/Climate change/sinners going to hell are all about controlling the masses by the elite few. The real comedic tragedy is that the elite few have convinced the masses to pay for their own demise.
“His Holiness has ignored approaches, from those who have sought in good faith to present other viewpoints.”
Is it reasonable to believe that Bergoglio is stupid or ignorant of the global warming scam? Of the UN/World Bank’s long-term history of predation on the poor in developing nations?
How long should we talk around the central issue of evil now that speaking truth is punishable by death?The Rothschilds are the Vatican’s bankers and the founders of the AGW scam, according to Maurice Strong.
The early church adopted and adapted pagan rituals and festivals. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.
This Pope would probably turn up at Stonehenge wearing an Ottoman kaftan if somebody told him it’s where the kids are at these days.
Leather go-go pants can’t be far behind.
I was raised Catholic and was Catholic for almost half my life. With this Pope I am glad I am no longer Catholic.
amen
“Given that to date climate alarmists, whose claims are based on computer models, have failed to produce a model which can predict the climate, it seems fair to suggest things are still very much undetermined and open.”
The science is based on much more than computer models. Physics, atmospheric chemistry, Paleoecology, and many other sciences both empirical and theoretical all point to the same conclusion. That is why virtually all scientific societies around the world have endorsed statements stating that CO2 emissions from the burning of fossil fuels are warming the atmosphere and it could have catastrophic consequences for human society.
>>The science is based on much more than computer models. Physics, atmospheric chemistry, Paleoecology, and many other sciences both empirical and theoretical all point to the same conclusion.<<<
Which is that the warming that has occurred to date since the end of the last ice age is completely natural and not caused by man in any way.
Why then have they refused to debate the many paleontologists who are deniers. The chemistry of acidification and dissolving of coral for instance when CO2 from volcanoes occurs neart thriving reefs etc etc. In fact they only admit climate scientists know anything. Most geologists are not convinced. So anyway why have they used the models to claim things into the future if it is other information they are really relying on for catistrophic claims?
With all due respect, Your Holiness…shut up. You have lots of other, more pressing things to talk about…you know…religion.
I’ve always thought that respect should never really be conferred. It should be earned. Since I don’t feel that this old buzzard of a pope has really earned respect I therefore have no qualms about calling him, “this old buzzard of a pope.”
‘”Climate change is a problem which can no longer be left to a future generation,” said the pope, who invited contrast with the civil rights struggle by invoking the spirit of Martin Luther King Jr in support of his argument.’
The foregoing twaddle burping out of the pope’s mouth is exactly what I mean about earned respect. MLK earned his by risking great personal harm, including death, to advance rights for human beings; many of whom he would never know personally.
Last time I checked Francis didn’t get here by marching across a Selma, Alabama bridge.
He got here in the bowels of a cushy jet airplane.
Along with an entourage of freeloaders all of whom are living a comfortable life on the backs of their followers. What they don’t realize is an old sales saying: “Pigs get fat but hogs get slaughtered”. If they stayed piggish nobody would care but now they have gone hog wild.
This is what happens when we combine religion and science! It took the Catholic Church a half a millennium to admit they were wrong abount Galileo!!
The sad things is; the world is in dire need and is crying out for real leaders. The pope along with others western figure heads are in a long line of resent failures in the leadership roles they have been given. It’s easier to demigod an issue that can’t fight back than it is to face a real threat that can fight back. Cowards, all of them….Bibi is the one exception.
“Those who fail to learn from the past are destined to repeat it.” Timeless Winston…timeless.
Eric Worral:
Wait a minute – 500 year anniversary of Galilieo’s letter? Unless my references are wrong, it’s more like 400. 399 since Galileo’s presentation was declared heretical:
“Galileo’s initial discoveries were met with opposition within the Catholic Church, and in 1616 the Inquisition declared heliocentrism to be formally heretical.”
It would be Copernicus that formulated the heliocentric postulation 500 years ago – writing his first drafts sometime before 1514 and working with colleagues 1515 to 1530 observing eclipses and confirming his observations with others. 100 years later even the Vatican scientists agreed with Copernicus and Galileo, but could not say so publicly.
Sounds strangely familiar.
https://youtu.be/wcAy4sOcS5M
http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/pope-jesus-died-on-the-hammer-and-sickle-for-the-collective-t16632.html
Ptolemaic model + church dogma = Spanish inquisition
CAGW + RICO Act = Progressive Inquisition
I think once again, a lot of people on this blog are making the mistake of using the misguidance of the Roman Catholic church as a way to trash the entire christian church.
The RCC has been slowly drifting away from the scriptures for centuries, and there are millions of conservative Christians (the type that believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God) who do not buy into the AGW argument at all. Also they do not see the Pope as the ultimate authority and do not see him as the only one with direct access to God himself (as there’s nothing in the Bible that justifies such a figure).
For one thing, I believe that the increase in Co2 is helping the biosphere get closer to the state that it was in during the Creation event (when Earth was a paradise), every little bit toward that point helps even though we’re not going to get there with the current state of the world.
To clarify, the RCC is not to be seen as ‘the’ image of the church (they do not represent the 1 billion plus people who also believe in Christ but do not see the Pope as their representative). The media quite often makes the mistake of referring to the Pope as the leader of the entire church when in reality he leads a group which is more or less in their own league (ie. not representing Christianity in its purest form).
Can we please stop calling Jorge Bergoglio “the Pope”?
Jorge is a modernist and a Marxist; he espouses beliefs already defined to be heretical. Since he is not a Catholic, he cannot be the head of the Catholic Church.
http://www.cmri.org/
Yesterday we went from being Den*ers to being Doubters. Today we are Heretics. I’m getting dizzy.
I can’t help but think of the phrase “the blind leading the blind.
Has the EPA replaced Christ as the saviour?
Guess they could end up “crucified” (so to speak)…
Depends on which way the politics leans.
Pope Francis is waaay out of his depth on these issues which are neither within his competence nor even within his remit. The Political Pope.
Very likely the last Pope.
Regrettably, no.
More new suckers are born every minute, and the Church wants to keep them poor and helpless.
Ironic that the symbol in which this fairytale religion is solely constructed on also happens to be the biggest influence on climate change. It’s the SUN stupid.
It doesn’t matter if the Pope approves. He’s not a “climate scientist”!
PS I wonder if Congress and Obama have gotten their threatening letters from The Freedom from Religion Foundation yet?
Open statement to Pope
Hello Sir. You seem like a nice man. You seem like you want to help people. All very good. Now ask yourself who takes better care of the environment, a prosperous country or an impoverished country? You can thank the free enterprise system (capitalism) for the fruits.
Regarding climate change and fossil fuels. If God created the earth, then God created the oil and other natural gases. Are you suggesting a great big joke by God to get us into prosperity and modernity with the power of these natural fuels, only to force us back into poverty to save the planet. Maybe God loves irony. CO2 is life. Plants require CO2 for food and then give us oxygen to breathe. Embrace the CO2 cycle; embrace life.
c’mon. it is great fun watching the Progressive Left swoon over a Pope surely.
Salon.com, which caused outrage this week for giving a platform to a paedophile:
Salon: I’m a pedophile, but not a monster
which the’ve done before:
2012: Salon: Meet pedophiles who mean well
has on their front page at present:
Can the loving presence of Pope Francis heal our sick political culture? It feels that way today. Let us pray
Twitter tells the tale: Pope Francis’ speech does not sit well with the conservative “intelligentsia”
It’s almost as if the pope deliberately set out to troll the Republicans, and they’re not happy about it
The pope urges xenophobic Republicans to “view refugees as persons” instead of numbers
yet this was Salon on Popes Francis & Benedict previously:
30 Aug 2015: Pic of Pope Francis: The Catholic Church’s mafioso fantasies: Why the Pope really isn’t so different from “The Godfather”
While Christianity has pretensions of piety, its actual behavior would make Don Corleone blush
June 2014: Pope Francis’ new clothes: Why his progressive image is white smoke and mirrors
Don’t buy his populist rhetoric. The new pope is every bit the sexist homophobe as his predecessors
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/22/pope_franciss_liberal_reformer_image_is_all_smoke_and_mirrors_partner/
2013: Meet the Catholic extremists who could shatter the church
The Society of St. Pius X has a past of Fascist sympathy and worse. Pope Francis might welcome it back to the flock
2012: No one’s listening to the pope (Benedict)
priceless. makes the huge cost to American taxpayers of hosting the Pope’s visit worthwhile.
The left is only swooning over the Pope because he is moving in their direction, and they’re hoping to lure him even further to their side. That would be a big coup for them. But if he wakes up and refuses to go any further, the flattery and swooning will eventually stop, and they’ll give up courting him. The left will then go back to hating all things Christian, including the Pope.
It reminds me of when the NY Times endorsed John McCain for President in the GOP primaries. Then, as soon as he won the nomination, they did a hit piece on him accusing him of having an affair based on rumors and innuendo. They were never on his side. They just wanted him to think it so he would moderate his views to stay in their good graces. So I hope the Pope is prepared for a major letdown in his celebrity status — unless he is willing to accept gay marriage, contraception, abortion, etc.
Just watch him.
http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/pic_cartoon_092215.jpg
(courtesy of nationalreview.com)
So whaddya think…did the Pope’s people talk to Obama’s people to shape message on Climate Change?
Wikileaks revealed in 2010 that the Vatican was going to get in bed with the 0bamanes regarding global warming.
If there was any risk that this old man’s delusions about CAGW were “infallible” I’d be out of the door too. But he is just human and as liable to error as the rest of us on this kind of plausible guff. I absolutely accept his messages about not wasting the world’s resources and acting to tackle exposure to poor environmental conditions, whether from dung fires in primitive huts or smoggy cities or from poisonous industrial processes. Maybe he can’t see how he has been conned by the false prophets of doom peddling the carbon lie – it isn’t easy to see beyond the “save the world” mantra and recognise the real, wholly political objectives of the so-called “green” lobby.
On the other hand, when the press coverage focuses on his views being rubbished by creationists and Taliban-style “Bible” fundamentalists, he gets more of my sympathy than they do…
Is the mass media really that convincing to you, QV? . .
One of the most damnable lies that’s been foisted on us by that slimy whisperer, as I see it, is the idea that actual “Bible fundamentalists” don’t see these words of my Lord as defining the fundamentals of Christianity;
~ And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.
But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets ~
Please don’t allow the mass media, or wolves in sheep’s clothing, to paint false pictures in your mind, of what it means to be a “Bible fundamentalist” follower of Christ. One absolutely must take such a sweeping statement, about all the law and the prophets (the Book) to be fundamental, it seems to me, or the term simply does not apply.
That’s the Boss speaking, no one really works for Him if they don’t strive to do as He instructs, I believe. (And no, love thy neighbor does not mean coddle or seek to please him/her in any way they might ask. Anymore than loving a child means giving them more candy when they ask.)
Let the Pope stick to his core business – religion – and the scientists stick to their business – science.
Politicians should also stick to their core business – spinning the facts to suit themselves and their philosophy.
The Pope has no government authority here in the United States. His opinion is that of an alien. The reality is that the climate change we have been experiencing is caused by the sun and the oceans and Man does not have the power to change it. The real ecological problem that Man can solve is Man’s out of control population. That is the problem the Pope should be addressing.
The populations of the US, Europe, and the rest of the “developed” world, are not “out of control”. Why it is important to “focus” on birth rates in less “developed” areas, rather than on helping them to develop too, Is somewhat mysterious to me. So, perhaps the “real ecological problem” is lack of development in much of the world, which makes stifling acquisition of a ready sup[ply of reasonably priced energy contra-indicated, to solving either “ecological problem”, it seems to me.
I live in the USA and I can have as many children as I want.. Just 200 years ago the county where I live was mostly wild with a few ranchos and Indian villages. Now it is mostly urban and suburban with almost no farmland left. The world in which we live has finite area and finite resources yet Man is increasing his population as if there were no limits. Many parts of the globe are already having problems with a lack of resources and safe areas for human habitation. A major extinction event is underway caused by a loss of habitat from Man’s out of control population. Just 200 years ago there was virtually no use of fossil fuels and now we are in the process of burning up the Earth’s very finite supply just as quickly as possible. If Man does not control his own population then Nature will, catastrophically
WWJD? Swat him up along side his metaphysical head and tell him to get back to what he told Peter to do 2,000 years ago.
Maybe he is smarter than we give credit for – with the Left becoming increasingly anti-religion/atheistic, what better way to lure some back into the fold than to embrace ideologies and political causes so dear to them? Why else should he care about a pseudoscience that will only serve, through its policies (e.g. moving away from fossil fuels that are affordable) to ultimately hurt those he says should be uplifted?
If the head of any nation state in the world told people he only took news from one daily newspaper and relied on just one advisor whose background was in another field, he’d be laughed out of the room and be out of office by week’s end.
Yet the Pope gets a pass, because he’s the Pope. The head of an organisation that has been more than just a little bit shady throughout it’s history, one known to hide facts from the public and to persecute any who disagreed with their position to further their cause (hmm…sounds familiar). That and well known to look the other way in regards to the persecution of others with differing beliefs when significant benefits are offered.
But yeah, his position on the issue (and pretty much any moral issue) is totally relevant. /sarc
I once was tasked to provide an estimate for surveying services for a church and cemetery, the day was muggy with building cumulus, not the ideal setting for an atheist.
I figured I would never avoid the coming lightning strike.
Yet here I am.
(Grace means unwarranted favor ; )
This pope is a symptom of globalist drive toward crony capitalist statism to benefit the few, including the tens of billions of dollars rich Church, at the expense of the poor, whom they wish to multiply.
Francis overthrew Benedict, heir to the greatest pope in history, John Paul II, in a palace coup by globalist leftist functionaries.
The Church will probably survive this shameful episode, as it did selling indulgences, but its reputation will be forever sullied.
Benedict was a Nazi. At Dachau. My dad met him there when he came to liberate the camp. I confronted him in Germany in 1968 at a meeting in Tubingen and he ran out of the meeting when I told everyone his true past.
Are you saying that he was a guard at Dachau? What made your dad remember him?
The Nazis persecuted Catholics. While still a teenager he was drafted as a Luftwaffe anti-aircraft gun “helper” (as were girls), then when older into the Wehrmacht, from which he deserted.
Hear about God’s banker? How was Solidarity funded? Reminds me of “saint” Theresa’s own penchant for dodgy “donations”.
Any form of organised crime is dispicable. WWJD? Pretty sure not that!
Benedict protected child molesters and JPII let him. For the good of the church, eh?
Francis was only elected because there was a long stalemate in voting after ol’ Hitler’s youth pope tried to stamp out corruption and got pushed out/couldn’t hack it anymore.
As for this one… well it seems the Jesuits simply cannot help themselves when it comes to conspiracies. Remember China?
After bringing “Christ” back in “Christianity” the only way was down.
The Pope, in his position, is taking a big risk on this one. When the climate change scam is revealed, in time. People will ask the Pope if all the other things he stands for are true.
After decades of discouraging the mass of impoverished faithful from adopting family planning and contraception, the world now contains many millions more catholics than if such people had been permitted access to birth control.
So, that’s a big success for the catholic church. Lots of catholics. Hurrah for them!!
Now there is only one big problem – that whilst numerous they are still desperately poor.
Meanwhile in Northern Europe and North America where nasty protestants ignored the Roman Church’s guidance, and planned family sizes by using evil condoms and suchlike, we now have lots of wealth per person. Not surprisingly.
Wouldn’t it be great if the church could now find a way to take the money off of the rich educated family planning non-catholic protestants and jews and dish it out to the numerous but poor catholic faithful.
First, of course, we would have to encourage the adoption of the idea that the hardships of the catholic world are caused by the weather.
And then that the weather is caused by the nasty rich Protestants and Jews in the North.
Then we could force those nasty carbon emitting Protestants and Jews to hand over all their ill-gotten cash.
The plan will only be complete when the catholic church has both all the people AND all the money!!!
It sounds like a ridiculous idea when explained in simple terms.
But, with a genius like the Pope at the helm – then this may just work!!!
If it does, the Big Hammer drops without a doubt, I believe. You must have noticed how the Story ends . . and there’s nothing that I can detect, about any world Government or world religion lasting more than a couple years at best.
But no, it doesn’t sound at all like a rediculous idea to me. It sounds kinda like what I think must happen at some point, before you know Who shows up again.
Did saving souls get boring?
Dr. Christopher R. Scotese on where we’ve been:
http://iceagenow.info/2012/03/baby-cold/ice_house_or_hothouse/
Father Guido Sarducci on where we are going:
I hope even the devout Catholics are taking the Pope’s quasi-religious visit with a large salt lick.
I find it interesting that after promising to rid the church of sexual predators he spends his time acting out his foot fetish fantasies using unsuspecting members of the public.
Reminds me of Ghandi’s “OCD” regarding girls’ bowel movements…
Ugh, holier than thous…
Pope Francis denies population science and the implications of “What is happening?” with regard to human population growth and Paul Ehrlich denies the ecological science of human population dynamics, i.e., “Why population numbers worldwide are continuing to explode despite declining total fertility rates in many places on the surface of Earth?”