There’s an annoyance in the farce, and his moniker is “And Then There’s Physics” also known as “ATTP” and recently outed by Poptech as Dr. Ken Rice. Ken Rice is a Reader of Astronomy and Public Relations Director at the Institute for Astronomy, within the School of Physics & Astronomy at the University of Edinburgh. Dr. Rice came into the debate with an attitude supposedly more genteel, claiming he was all for reasoned debate and less rhetoric.
He wrote recently of “hostilities” in the climate debate:
So, as much as I’d be all for a reduction in hostilities, and a more reasoned approach to discussions about climate science, I see no reason to capitulate to those who appear to be using a few extreme examples to simply score points. I also think we all own our own behaviour. If people want to reduce hostilities, they can simply do so. People are not responsible for how someone responds to what they say, they’re only responsible for what they actually say.
It is ironic then, that we see this now partially disappeared comment admonishing Dr. Richard Tol on his own ATTP blog from Dr. Ken Rice, aka “and then there’s physics”:
That was morphed to this subsequent comment:
So much for “civil dialog” from Dr. Ken Rice. But at least he’s honest about saying even he can’t be civil anymore. For example, this is his blog header from January 2014:
And this is his blog header today:
I’ll have another article in the future about Dr. Ken Rice and his failures.
Good Lord, is this really necessary? The chap’s an Academic and trying to engage, maybe after the odd half-bottle of claret.
…hmm. What is this? Are we gathered for a stoning? That’s a silly way of putting it, but my question isn’t meant to be a joke, it’s serious. Is it OK for Rice to blog about Watts, but not OK for Watts to blog about Rice?
Maybe, right? Maybe it is. Maybe it’s a given that ATTP is not to be taken seriously and WUWT lowers itself by deigning to notice him at all. And then again, maybe not.
…
Mr. McC’s invisible /sarc tags are fairly evident to me. I believe they’re swimming in the dregs of that bottle of claret. As for “gathered for a stoning” … need you really ask? Dammit man, taking number for it and lined up thrice around the block. Have the stones to admit it. After all, that’s pretty much Mr. Watts’ message to ATTP, yes?
Trying to engage? Is that really what he’s trying to do? I’m not trying to be silly, I’ve spent more time than I care to admit reading ATTP and trying to figure the guy out. I don’t really buy that he is.
Agreed Mark!
After ATTP’s first few circular comments in a thread I just skip his remaining comments unless he accidently releases some real knowledge while trying to demeans someone else’s comment.
I’ve written him off as another envious blog owner seeking to misdirect traffic from the better blogs and discussions. ATTP may be more civil than hotwhopper, but he is following the same blog envy orbit style.
Mark Bofill
I agree. Somebody who is “trying to engage” with me from behind a screen of anonymity is not trying to “engage” as a friend.
People who want to be friends say who they are: assailants don’t.
Richard
When you see the title: ‘Public Relations’, it’s pretty much a clue.
Atheok, Brandon, etc. Thanks for your responses. Richard, thanks as always. I hope you are doing well my friend. I hadn’t responded earlier because I didn’t have anything useful to add, but I realized I ought to at least ack.
Don’t understand the joke, old chap.
Because he is an “academic” does not excuse stupid and ignorant behavior. In case you missed the point, he is NOT trying to engage, he is trying to undermine. Unfortunately, scientific debate has descended into the realm of propaganda, and it’s not coming from the skeptics, but from the holders of political power, the Lysenkoists.
It most certainly is necessary, especially if you were on the receiving end of his trolling nonsense for the last couple of years.
Kenny cannot handle any form of debate and as soon as he loses he censors. His sycophants hide on his blog too scared to debate anyone outside of it.
I’ve always suspected that I’m a figment of my own imagination. Thanks for confirming that. I’m not so sure I feel good about being a sycophant to boot, but I can’t have everything, not even in my own fantasies.
Iv been reading attp for a while and poptech what youre saying is dishonest
@ohflow, maybe you missed the censoring of various commentators like Shub, Dr. Tol and myself but I do not fault you for speaking without knowing anything about the subject, as most readers of Ken Rice are known for this.
:>
Poptech,
To quote the movie ‘The Untouchables’: “I do not approve of your methods”. I don’t. Inviting people to harass Rice leads nowhere good IMO. That was a dumb and crappy thing to do.
This said, +1 for solving the puzzle, +10 for striking a blow against those bastards who snip our arguments in order to give the impression of sending us running, and +50 for your comment above. Sir.
(clears throat) Now go forth and be nice, darn it.
Mark, if I wanted Ken harassed I could do that all by myself and make his life miserable but he has a family so I have no reason to do that. Instead I wanted him to be in better communication with those he trolled and banned.
In Edinburgh? I doubt it!
And if he really wants to engage he can make a better attempt at being civil. I haven’t seen a posting of his yet that hasn’t tried to demonstrate his superiority of lesser mortals (ie everyone who disagrees with him). What is it with these colonials and their inferiority complexes?
Claret? In Scotland?
Given his geographical location, I’d be more inclined to attribute it to a surfeit of Buckie and fried Mars Bars.
Actually, Dr Rice is not interested in civil discourse. He’s dishonest, which shines through whenever someone presents inconvienent facts. His basic response is to mount a defense against something not said or change the topic.
You can be the most polite person in the world yet still be a cad if you are dishonest. I’ve never met Rice so I won’t label him except for being dishonest. He’s demonstrated that characteristic.
Sheesh, why are all you knuckle dragging, ignorant, insane deniers all so sensitive! /sarc
Hey, you got proof that us deniers are knuckle dragging, ignorant and sensitive?
[trimmed. .mod]
As a former torpedoman, I fit the knuckle dragging description. However I’m still trying to figure out exactly what I am supposedly denying.
🙂
I am not sure at the purpose of Poptech of outing someone like Dr Rice. This is the home page of his that was linked to.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_large_volcanic_eruptions
He appears a genuine academic who spent time in the Antarctic, has a phd on physics but is now primarily interested in astronomy.
Nor sure why he deserves a Friday funny slot. He may not always be polite but that happens to all of us at times. He seems less vitriolic than some other warmist sites.
Perhaps the Additional article mentioned in the head post might explain why the spotlight has been turned on him.
Tonyb
Why are some astrophysicists so obsessed with Earth’s climate? Do they suffer from Venus envy like the astrophysicist Dr. James Hansen?
He’s a guy on the gravy train that, under a pseudonym, protects his paycheck from attacks by skeptics. I’d say that is important for the public to know.
The reason is rather simple, he should not have censored my comments.
classic
Well done
Maybe he should change is moniker to ‘and then there’s a pretentious TWA Tea drinker 🙂
🙂
Except all websites indulge in censoring comments.
Not all websites censor my comments. Those that do when I am attempting to defend myself will be taught a lesson. Cook still has not learned his lesson and I doubt Ken has either so a further education may be required.
Well, I’ve just completed another exercise in typing (can’t really call it a “debate”) with a renewable energy type whose entire war chest was a single Wikipedia page (Ontario electricity policy if you want a laugh – most of the sources are from the David Suzuki Foundation, or government websites that are basically press releases).
When I continually pointed him to our Auditor-General’s report that maintains that the government has, to paraphrase, only a nodding acquaintance with the truth (90% of the subsidies are going to 11 firms, and I know its hard to believe, but many of them have close political connections to the government).
I asked him for the raw data or an unbiased source and he came back with: “Wikipedia may not be the absolute reference, but I thought it would at least give you a primer that is not too hard to understand.”
That, and he accused me of confirmation bias because I trust an Auditor-General over Wikipedia.
Gonna be a long fight, isn’t it?
CaligulaJones.
Add, to the bottom of every comment, “Follow the money. FROM Big Government, FOR Big Government, PAID by Big Government, and back to Big Government.”
If only.
FROM Tax Payers, TO Big Government, FOR Big Government, DOLED out to Friends of Big Government who SUPPORT Big Government because they think they can CONTROL Big Government.
Or as ferd berple said: “a pseudo expert telling us how we should tax the poor to give to rich.” – and powerful.
Now, now. But you started it. Lettuce keep going.
FROM Tax Payers, TO Big Government, FOR Big Government, DOLED out BY Big Government TO (Friends of) Big Government who SUPPORT Big Government because they KNOW they DO control Big Government THROUGH Big Government.
I hear Somalia is nice this time of year.
Indeed Caligua:
– Ontario electricity policies are a real mush, botched implementation of smart meters for example (they forecast substantial reduction in demand from people reducing consumption in response to time of day pricing, people didn’t, ON even manipulated rates to reduce the impact, worth reading the auditor’s report).
– It will be a long struggle, municipal councilors are full of eco-freaks and gullible shallow people, who vote for hypocrite David Suzuki’s “Blue Dot” scam.
War is hell. No time for tea and crumpets.
but I like tea and crumpets. I think tea and crumpets might be good for re-energizing between battles…..
Keep the crumpets, but I do enjoy a mug of Earl Gray in the afternoon.
And, “I see no reason to capitulate to those who appear to be using [ ] extreme [Hypocrisy] to simply score points”, Mr. ATTP (should those exist). But we’ll just wait until the promised future article, perhaps it isn’t as bad as it looks.
Ken Rice is something else. The original blog, Wotts Up With That Blog, was a relentless attack on Watts Up With That. After switching to the current name, attacks have broadened to anyone and everyone who slightly deviates from Climate Dogma. A recent thread about Matt Ridley was one big smearfest. And now he turns around with a “hostile, moi?”.
My attempt to point out the irony of it all was quickly disappeared by the moderator.
#mindlesswrath
Yep. I too have noticed a substantial degree of narcissism in his motives.
I’m convinced by that. There are, of course Bad Academics. Some stay bad, even after a half-bottle or two of claret!
I know right. Ya’ gotta wonder about the credentials of a guy who drinks two half-bottles of vino in a sitting. What is that? So well-nourished on the public teat that he can consider anything past the midpoint unfit to drink? Such a lush that he’s three-quarters pissed already from just smelling the cork and doesn’t see the five bottles he’s already opened?
He had about 4 or 5 commenters in ttl over there. I posted a headline from almost a century ago that proposed that the arctic was melting at an alarming rate. It was deleted with no explanation.
Yes, Richard, you have become a major target of the vitriol and are regularly subjected to insults, misrepresentations, and disrespect. Civility is a quaint concept when you allow the peanut gallery to do the dirty work for you. Convenient and hypocritical.
…and we are all throwing a pity party for the misery of the miserable. Keeping the past alive gives you permission to not have to take responsibility for yourself. Kleenex anyone?
Some seem rather better at preaching civil discourse than demonstrating it.
Often those that are better at preaching about most things.
Admittedly I haven’t followed a great deal of R. Toll’s contributions but I always feel assured of considered, courteous and cogniscant comment when I do.
Thanks for that clarification. The post above does not provide an answer to ATTP’s “back it up or frag off”, and I am not that knowledgable or interested in this attp figure so I did not know how uncivil he has been.
So bedankt Richard for elaborating!
Maybe an idea mods, add this bit of clarification because the head post stays cryptic about attp’s uncivil behaviour.
I rarely read anything from him but I found his name interesting and a comment to this article. http://www.marklynas.org/2014/11/matt-ridley-climate-denial/
I found it a bit ironic that someone calling himself And Then There is Physics not noticing the dodgy plot.
http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v7/n10/full/ngeo2254.html
It looks like its a ten year mean ending in the date on the label of the data point. A dishonest slight of hand to get rid of the pause.
‘And Then There’s Physics’ is a very arrogant and close-minded name.
Choosing that moniker shows he has difficulty engaging with others as equals.
But he did try.
So he’s currently failing? Yes!. He is.
So we should forgive that and try to re-engage.
At the very least his ignorance will be proven and displayed as a warning. And maybe his viewpoint will inspire us or just help us refine our justifications.
ATTPT.
And Then There’s Personal Tirades
+12
The name is clearly to demonstrate that his superior research in Astronomy makes him more knowledgeable of climate science than skeptics.
The name was suggested by commenter BBD.
He didn’t get it quite right; it should have been And Then There’s THE Physics.
I assume that his version alludes to the rather dated use of the word “physic” to mean a medicine taken to relieve the mind.
Model-making in Astronomy don’t you mean as he openly declares his work as “theoretical and computational”?
Shub, I am well aware of this. I should have added a /sarc tag.
Travesty!
http://www.desmog.ca/2015/02/06/climate-scientists-andrew-weaver-wins-50-000-defamation-suit-against-national-post-terence-corcoran
[You are required to have a valid email address to continue to post in this site. .mod]
It is indeed awesome that the harassment, insults, and threats… to “deniers” will continue.
A Person In your post:
“Dr. Peter Gleick, president of the Pacific Institute and member of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences…”
Do you know anything about this guy? – A Person – do you have a website???
I do hope they appeal. The ruling is a travesty.
There are 2 things, I am embarrassed to be a BC citizen after reading (and following) this guy, the other much happier thing is his standing as the only Green party MLA in BC is that he is a fart in a windstorm ( but seeing as I live down wind from Victoria I might get a whiff of at times URGH) Maybe three I wonder ? Could this set precedence in favor of Mann in his case here as well? Now that would be disgusting!
The link provided by this posts has the following quote by Peter Thief. So so funny:
Dr. Peter Gleick, president of the Pacific Institute and member of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, said the ruling “is a victory for climate scientists everywhere.”
There is “an extremely long history of efforts by climate deniers and contrarians to attack not just climate science, but climate scientists: to smear their scientific reputations, to distort their statements, and to make false and defamatory accusations,” Gleick told DeSmog Canada.
And the article quotes Peter Gleick. Holey Moley. As was said in the Army-McCarthy hearings, “Have you no shame?”
A shameful episode for British Columbia.
Andrew Weaver is a politician. He is a member of the British Columbia Green Party and the parties deputy leader. Recently he was elected in the 2013 provincial election as the first Green Party MLA in British Columbia’s history. Weavers suit can foster an atmosphere where silencing adversaries to win elections is accepted as valid political strategy.
Justice Burke, the judge in the case acted either idiotically or as a political hack. It seems Justice Burke cannot tell the difference between a fact and an opinion. If a writer said Weaver forged his college credentials and had no evidence, that is defamation. If a writer says Weaver is an “alarmist“, “sensationalist”, and “Canada’s warmest spinner-in-chief.” That is opinion. Yes those were phrases pulled from the actual ruling, which were ruled as defamatory. The precedence now is a politician in British Colombia cannot be labeled or described, unless the politician approves the wording. To all Canadian newspapers, I am guessing Andrew will accept being labeled “great leader” or “world saviour”, but better check with his lawyers first. The damages described for the $50,000 award is comical. Damages being that Dr. Weavers opinion of himself was offended and the defendants refused to retract their opinion.
I like Canada a lot, but this is a black eye for the country.
Ah yes, we love our northern neighbor. So kind to the environment. Only 5+ million gallons of raw sewage dumped everyday into the Straits of Juan de Fuca. A lovely thought. And those pulp mills up those lonely BC fjords, conveniently out of site. And Canadian diversified miner Teck Resources Ltd repeatedly dumping their waste into the Columbia River just a few miles from the its entrance into the US. Yes, we like Oh Canada’s double standards.
As a chemical engineer for 35 years I was told, “never write anything when your mad”. Always try to imagine yourself sitting in the witness chair in a courtroom trying to explain it.
Good advice for everyone and particularly when working with chemicals 😉
Leaving it overnight or until the other end of the day often helps identify ‘improvements’ in expression, or even if it’s worth saying at all.
That does tend to lose the passion and may interrupt the flow though.
This is the same guy who ran the “Wotts up with that” creepy blog since 2010? Jeez.
No, Ken plagiarized that blog name and called his “Wotts Up With That Blog” which he started in 2013. Prior to that he had a left wing political blog,
https://totheleftofcentre.wordpress.com/
Arrogant, pro-AGW censorious Ken swings to the political Left, does he? Gosh, WHAT a surprise.
Plagiarizing someone else’s creepy blog is even creepier.
The internet is spammed by paranoid alarmists who think they are saving the world by denigrating each and every skeptic. They do absolutely nothing to promote science. There only intent is character assassination. I am adding Dr. Rice/Wotts Up With That Blog to my list of ignorant internet snipers along with Slandering Sou/rooter/ and her other personna from Hot Whopper, Miesler/Citizenchallenged from WhatsupwithThatWatts, Greg Laden and John Samuel
Another troll vanquished. Good show!
Typical warmist weenie. Just ignore him…like a spoiled child he’s just begging for attention.
No, he’s begging for money from the government, and he is receiving it as long as he can maintain the Warmista lie.
Just a note, because I saw it referenced here and in some other entries, that ‘Poptech’ is a trademark for an organization that’s been around for at least 15 years, and among other things, holds a very popular international conference on the implications of technology on culture. Check out http://www.poptech.org. Therefore, statements like ‘outed by Poptech’ when you mean the blog ‘Popular Technology’ could be an issue for them. I was one of the early volunteers who got Poptech off the ground, but no longer involved. However I know they care a lot about their brand and reputation, so wanted to give a heads up.
Taylor
Nobody has ever been confused about this.
‘Nobody has ever been confused…’
I was, you can have any “Handle” you want, up to you. My message was to Anthony, because of his headline – at first glance it implied the organization, not an individual.
Taylor
Oh please spare me this nonsense.
I agree with Taylor. When I read the headline I thought it was referring to an organization or online publication. You might not worry about it but it is something Anthony should consider.
It is impossible to be confused since there is an embedded URL. Technically it is an online publication.
[snip – Epiphron Elpis is yet another David Appell sockpuppet.]
epiphron elpis sounds like an anagram
[snip – Epiphron Elpis is yet another David Appell sockpuppet.]
I had an Elpis silhouette on a potato chip, but broke it before i could sell it on eBay.
Yes of course censor Dr. Ball because free speech is dangerous.
The question here is of civil dialogue, not free speech.
A call to renounce someone’s writings is civil dialogue? Since Dr. Ball has nothing to do with this thread,are your comments designed to derail the thread’s topic of conversation?
Elpis,
Did someone elect you to be arbitrator?
He tells it like it is, and pulls no punches. Don’t like it? Tough.
I love Dr. Tim Ball’s publications here on WUWT. I would like to see even more.
I’m with you there!
Especially like how he gets the mosher goat.
I would love to see posts on WUWT from people like Ken, or Schmidt et. al., but it seems they are not willing to engage. I find that puzzling.
Je suis Charlie, mate.
Elpis
Let’s see if I got this right (I’m paraphrasing you): to have a civil dialog, we have to renouncing Ball’s writings.
I have a better idea: how about you state what you don’t like about Ball’s writings, including your opinion of why he’s wrong, and we’ll discuss it.
Like you said, I’ll believe it when I see it.
Yes, hiding behind silly names that are not their own let them do and say things without being accountable for their actions.
Riiight . You want people to renounce the writings of Dr. Tim Ball as heresy before They can be accepted into the fold .What’s the next step ? Swearing to keep faith with the one church of CAGW and the one true prophet Hanson and his blessed apostles Gore , Mann , Gleik et al ?
Give Me a break.
You know what this means? More money in the Tim tip jar.
So Tim Ball is uncivil? Wow! The guy speaks truth but has been constantly attacked with malicious intent. You are advocating censorship of someone you don’t agree with. Why aren’t liberals very liberal?
Tim Ball – Heretic! Heretic! Burn the Unbeliever! Censor all of his works!!!
“Climate Change” is just the new Hellfire and Brimstone Religion for people who think they’re too smart to fall for a Hellfire and Brimstone Religion. “REPENT YE, REPENT YE, O YE EVILDOERS, OR YE SHALL ALL PERISH IN FLAME! AND GIVE US ALL OF YOUR MONEY TO PROVE THAT YE ARE WORTHY OF SALVATION!!! REPENT YE, O REPENT YE!!!”
it’s the same old game as always.
The wayback machine will not be kind to these types. But take screen shots anyway and archive as datestamped .pdfs off line. Could come in handy some day–hopefully soon.
What in this world is an “Astronomy Reader”?…does it involve tarot cards?
…and why in this world does anyone care what this astronomy reader thinks??
Prior to uncovering him being an Astronomy Reader, he was known as an expert on the climate physics. Someone with so much knowledge on the subject that you became scared thinking he may blog about you.
Rather than every academic in a university being called professor as in the US system, British universities differentiate grades; lecturer, senior lecturer, reader and professor. So, a reader is one level down from the top.
Actually, the US has lecturer/instructor, associate professor, assistant professor, and professor, plus some have adjunct as well.
Mark
Its just part of image that alarmists have of themselves as ‘all good ‘ and sceptics has ‘all evil’
So they cannot be ‘uncivil ‘ in the same way they cannot lie . no matter what words they actual use . Where has sceptics can of course be nothing but wrong,
Love receiving abuse. Water off a ducks back to me. It’s the censorship and getting blocked when I don’t get fazed that bugs me.
wickedwenchfan, we’re on the same page there. Abuse means they have no good answer to your questions.
One of the great things about WUWT is that everyone can weigh in. It all comes out in the wash, and readers eventually can see who’s right, and who is emitting bluster.
In Greek mythology:
Epiphron was the Daimon, Titan, or God of prudence, shrewdness, thoughtfulness, sagacity, leadership and carefulness.
Elpis was the personification and spirit of hope (hope was usually seen as an extension to suffering by the Greek, not as a god)
So the guy is here hiding behind those qualities?☺
A bit like Sceptical Science.
neither word applies. !
He hopes he is shrewd?
There are some big echo chambers around – the more they are ignored the louder the echo becomes. I have tried to converse with a few of these sites (and some of them have great depths of knowledge) – but as soon as you are seen to even stray towards a neutral position the sites attack dogs go for you and bang! youre blocked. Ridiculous and deeply upsetting if you let it. Did my sanity a lot of good last time I was blocked – thanked the blogger for his excellent site and never returned (and dont want to!! very unpleasant company he keeps, many of the threads on his forum are pages and pages long with only 1 poster)
As far as I can remember, echo chambers work really well when there is no-one in them.
Here’s a bit of good jargon from the world of Childcare: All children crave attention, but in some cases, when the child is good, the parent breaths a sigh of relief and zones-out at the computer, giving the kid no attention, so the child resorts to “negative attention.” They have discovered that the only way to get the attention of adults is to be naughty.
Surely we adults are above such behavior, are we not? (Just asking.)
Perhaps Dr. Ken Rice was not receiving the attention he thought he deserved, for his focus on some obscure branch of science that could make a yawn yawn, (unless you were focused on the same obscure branch.) What he really needed was to meet the Unmet Friend, the person interested in what we gravitate towards. However perhaps he was unlucky in that regard, and his love of attention overwhelmed his love of science. Perhaps being good didn’t work out, and he decided to quit Dr. Jekyll and become Mr. Hyde.
Perhaps.
Unfortunately the only attribute that Dr. Rice has retained throughout the process he is going through is the ability to make a yawn yawn.
Andrew Weaver won 50000 dollars for what? Our courts have gone mad!!
Oopsy!
use-net news-groups, e-mails, blogs, hockey games, boxing matches, wrestling matches, football, … and the corner pub down the street.
And Then Comes The Brawl.
Just a part of the … “Climate.”
Ha ha.