Guest Opinion: Dr. Tim Ball
Pope Francis advocates the global warming agenda of the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), with the help of the Obama White House. Apparently, he doesn’t know their ultimate objective of reducing and controlling population generally contradicts Catholic doctrine. The irony is that as a Jesuit, the ideological church police, he should know, but apparently, his personal, political and economic perspective trumps it. He also doesn’t appear to know that population control comes naturally with industrial and economic development.
Coercion of the Pope to the global warming message likely began with John Kerry’s visit to the Vatican, ostensibly to discuss Middle East issues. The Boston Globe researched Kerry during his Presidential run and discovered that,
The Kerry family was traced back to a small town in the Austrian empire, now part of the Czech Republic. There, the paper discovered that before immigrating to America, the Kerrys changed their name from Kohn and converted from Judaism to Catholicism.
His Catholicism caused him much political trouble during his presidential campaign. Now the Obama administration has taken the next step, which is standard in the entire development of the IPCC climate campaign, by involving the top bureaucrat of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), Gina McCarthy.
EPA Administrator Gina McCarthy told reporters that her aim in visiting was to show the Vatican how aligned President Barack Obama and Francis are on climate change. She said she wanted to stress that global warming isn’t just an environmental issue, but a public health threat, and yet also a chance for economic opportunity.
The last comment parallels the political objective identified by Canadian Environment Minister Christine Stewart, who said,
“No matter if the science of global warming is all phony… climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”
These objectives appeal to a man familiar with the slums and poverty of Argentina. The problem is the more likely objective is to eliminate the people in them. Consider Prince Philip’s quote;
I just wonder what it would be like to be reincarnated in an animal whose species had been so reduced in numbers than it was in danger of extinction. What would be its feelings toward the human species whose population explosion had denied it somewhere to exist… I must confess that I am tempted to ask for reincarnation as a particularly deadly virus.
I recommend the list begin with monarchs.
Religious and political analogies abound between environmentalism and its subset, global warming. Former Czech Republic President, Vaclav Klaus, who gave the keynote address at the first Heartland Climate Conference in New York, warned about the growing trend.
Nevertheless, there is another threat on the horizon. I see this threat in environmentalism, which is becoming a new dominant ideology, if not a religion. Its main weapon is raising the alarm and predicting the human life endangering climate change based on man-made global warming.
Figure 1 shows how, as usual, cartoonists see the trend ahead of most and are able to comment without fear, until recently.
Figure 1
I wrote about similar parallels between religion and global warming by comparing Al Gore to the Pardoner, in Chaucer’s (c.1342 – 1400) The Canterbury Tales. Gore pushed carbon credits like The Pardoner pushed indulgences or pardons, hence his name. Here is Paul Johnson’s description of the Pardoner.
“The Pardoner, a seller of indulgences, is a complete and shameless rogue; but Chaucer, not content with exposing his impudence, shows how good he was at his job and how powerfully he preached against sinfulness. The Pardoner had also been taught to use the figure of death to scare his hearers.”
The opening lines of the Pardoner’s Tale provide the parallel with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) message.
“My lords, he said, in churches where I preach
I cultivate a haughty kind of speech
And wring it out as roundly as a bell;
I’ve got it all by heart, detail I tell.
I have a text, it always is the same
And always has been since I learned the game,
Old as the hills and fresher than the grass,
Radix malorum est cupiditas.”
(“greed is the root of evils”)
The Club of Rome (COR) took the Malthusian idea that world population would outgrow food resources and expanded it to all resources. They sponsored the 1972 book Limits To Growth, which was a forerunner to the IPCC Reports approach. It used simple linear trends for population and resources to project catastrophic projections. They used computer models to create the illusion of scientific accuracy.
The argument was twofold. Pressure on resources was occurring simply by natural rates of population increase, and developed nations were using the resources at an accelerated rate. The goal was also twofold. Reduce population overall and reduce industrialization that caused the increased demand on resources.
First and foremost of the Club of Rome Neo-Malthusians was Paul Ehrlich, whose 1968 book, The Population Bomb, became the bible for environmentalists. It also convinced most people, even though virtually all its predictions were wrong, that the world was overpopulated. Ehrlich also co-authored a book, Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment, with the person, John Holdren, who continues the fight, but from a position of power as Obama’s Science Czar. It is entirely likely that he is pushing Obama, Kerry and the EPA among others on the climate agenda.
What were some of the views on population Holdren set out in the book?
“• Women could be forced to abort their pregnancies, whether they wanted to or not;
• The population at large could be sterilized by infertility drugs intentionally put into the nation’s drinking water or in food;
• Single mothers and teen mothers should have their babies seized from them against their will and given away to other couples to raise;
• People who “contribute to social deterioration” (i.e. undesirables) “can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility” — in other words, be compelled to have abortions or be sterilized.
• A transnational “Planetary Regime” should assume control of the global economy and also dictate the most intimate details of Americans’ lives — using an armed international police force.”
Most Americans would oppose such measures, so Holdren had a solution to bypass them, using the shield of the Constitution.
Indeed, it has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society.
Who concluded that such laws “could be sustained”? The answer is Holdren and his cohorts. But they also control the justification for action, because Holdren decides when “the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger society”.
Holdren disavowed all these beliefs at his Senate confirmation hearings and in additional press releases, which said in part,
“This material is from a three-decade-old, three-author college textbook. Dr. Holdren addressed this issue during his confirmation when he said he does not believe that determining optimal population is a proper role of government. Dr. Holdren is not and never has been an advocate for policies of forced sterilization.”
Notice that Holdren doesn’t disavow his view on overpopulation. He only says, government shouldn’t control it, especially with forced sterilization. Clearly, he still thinks overpopulation is a problem.
In a larger sense, it doesn’t matter because major policy positions and global conferences continue with incorrect claims about overpopulation. It is central to the Principles of Agenda 21 set out in, what else, a Synthesis Report. It triggered the UN international population conference in Cairo in November 1994, with Vice President Al Gore leading the US delegation. One interesting comment about the Cairo conference, that shows some things haven’t changed, was this cryptic note.
Despite dire predictions that the conference would be the focus of attack by Islamic militants, there were no violent incidents.
Little else has changed either. Proponents of the IPCC and their anthropogenic global warming (AGW) hypothesis continue their crusade (pun intended) by inveigling the support of authority figures, like the Pope and by inference, associated groups. These are classic, appeals to authority, like Lord May’s use of the Royal Society to persuade other science societies to support the AGW cause.
Most members of the Societies didn’t know what their leaders were doing and many demanded retraction or at least restatement. Many of the parishioners are rebelling against religious involvement. A few years ago, members of the Catholic Church of Scotland, who were annoyed that their bishop had directed priests to preach against global warming, approached me. Their view was biblical,
“Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”
The Pope apparently did not think through his commitment to the IPCC claims as expounded by the Obama White House. Likely, he was easily persuaded, because so much of the false claims fit his socialist ideology. He tried to walk back his commitment by jokingly suggesting he was not promoting population control. He said,
“Some think, excuse me if I use the word, that in order to be good Catholics, we have to be like rabbits…but no,”
He later backtracked on this comment.
Wednesday, he seemed to pull back from that statement. Speaking of his recent trip to the Philippines, where he presided over the largest mass in history, he said “it gives consolation and hope to see so many numerous families who receive children as a real gift of God. They know that every child is a benediction.”
He called “simplistic” the belief that large families were the cause of poverty, blaming it instead on an unjust economic system. “We can all say that the principal cause of poverty is an economic system that has removed the person from the center, and put the god of money there instead.”
This comment appears to show further lack of understanding, created by an idée fixe.
Ironically, both the IPCC and the Pope fail to recognize the proven dynamics of the Demographic Transition. This theory basically shows that population decreases naturally when industrial economic development is allowed. The key is it must be allowed without interference from government or the church as this author explains.
As with all models, the demographic transition model has its problems. The model does not provide “guidelines” as to how long it takes a country to get from Stage I to III. Western European countries took centuries though some rapidly developing countries like the Economic Tigers are transforming in mere decades. The model also does not predict that all countries will reach Stage III and have stable low birth and death rates. There are factors such as religion that keep some countries’ birth rate from dropping.
The good news is, most Catholics are not listening. In Catholic countries, the population rate has declined considerably. Reportedly, the best measure is the Total Fertility Rate (TFR), the expected number of children born per woman in her child-bearing years.
Taken globally, the total fertility rate at replacement is 2.33 children per woman. At this rate, global population growth would tend towards zero.
Fertility rates for four predominantly catholic countries are;
Poland – 1.41
Hungary – 1.41
Italy – 1.48
France – 1.98
But the Pope doesn’t need to worry; Italy, France, and other European nations are offsetting the decline with Muslim immigrants with higher TFRs.
Apparently, the Pope could learn from the French philosopher Montesquieu. He reportedly said, whenever he was tempted to talk about something on which he had little knowledge, he remembered his personal guideline. Never talk to other men about his wife, because they might be more knowledgeable on the subject than he was. Maybe the problem for perspective is that the Pope doesn’t have a wife.
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Has the Pope explicitly said he recommends any action in climate change?
Just saying that we should care for creation isn’t controversial for the Pontiff.
So has he asked for any specific action?
The article is struggling to find guilt by association, and doesn’t succeed. It’s a hit piece, without substance.
This article is a mix of religion and politics. Difficult to do from the get-go, but even funnier on a blog about “science”
warrenlb is struggling, without substance, to criticize. Tim Ball makes some interesting observations, but as with most politico-religious ideas, they are endlessly subject to dispute. As for D Socrates, he erects the straw man that WUWT is purported to be a blog strictly about science. my impression has always been that this is Anthony’s blog and that it posts what Anthony considers interesting.
(That is right, and there is nothing stopping moderators from getting fed up with a couple of constant nay-sayers, and keeping their comments in long-term moderation. Those commenter should understand that posting is a privelege, not a right. If they cannot act as if they are guests in Anthony’s living room, there are literally millions of other blogs where they can post their views. -mod)
give us your money or you will burn in hell.
Extortion (also called shakedown, outwrestling, and exaction) is a criminal offense of obtaining money, property, or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion.
Coercion is the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of intimidation or threats or some other form of pressure or force.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extortion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coercion
Roman Catholic Church’s wealth impossible to calculate
It is impossible to calculate the wealth of the Roman Catholic Church. In truth, the church itself likely could not answer that question, even if it wished to.
Its investments and spending are kept secret. Its real estate and art have not been properly evaluated, since the church would never sell them.
There is no doubt, however, that between the church’s priceless art, land, gold and investments across the globe, it is one of the wealthiest institutions on Earth.
Since 313 A.D., when Catholicism became the official religion of the Roman Empire, its power has been in near-constant growth.
The church was able to acquire land, most notably the Papal States surrounding Rome, convert pagan temples and claim relics for itself. Over 300 years, it became one of Europe’s largest landowners.
For the next thousand years, tithes and tributes flowed in from all over Europe. Non-Christians and even fellow Christians were killed and their property confiscated. For example, the Fourth Crusade and the sack of Constantinople in the early 13th century brought it gold, money and jewels.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03/08/wealth-of-roman-catholic-church-impossible-to-calculate/
A friend of mine, Phillipino, in New Zealand spent time in Italy and the Vatican on holiday once. She returned disturbed at the extreme wealth the Church has accumutlated over the centuries while her fellow countrymen, women and children live in abject poverty in slums and rubbish dumps in Manila (Her home town).
I, myself, whitnessed the “wealth” of the Catholic church in Ireland, along with all the hypocricy and abuses.
the Pope wants redistribution of wealth. which is very much against catholic doctrine since redistribution of wealth is socialist/progressive/communist speak for theft.
the Catholic Church has a long history of redistribution of wealth. it takes the wealth of the poor and gives it to the church. in the name of doing good they have done very well indeed.
climate change has a great deal in common with the church. both want money to save the earth from the sins of humanity. both preach that we will burn if we don’t give.
Both are big on talking about future salvation, in return for money today. both have profited greatly. neither has demonstrated any power to actually save anyone.
GPM,
It’s just another case of ‘do as I say, not as I do’. The day the Pope says he’s going to redistribute his church’s immense wealth to the poor, I will sit up straight and pay attention.
Then there is this, which may wife (Catholic) says that she personally knew of similar occurrences in the 1960’s. Of course I’m sure that large donations were made to the church for their efforts:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049647/BBC-documentary-exposes-50-year-scandal-baby-trafficking-Catholic-church-Spain.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049647/BBC-documentary-exposes-50-year-scandal-baby-trafficking-Catholic-church-Spain.html
WOW!! In the category of it is worse than we thought.
Up to 300,000 Spanish babies were stolen from their parents and sold for adoption over a period of five decades, a new investigation reveals.
Mr Moreno’s ‘father’ confessed on his deathbed to having bought him as a baby from a priest in Zaragoza in northern Spain. He told his son he had been accompanied on the trip by Mr Barroso’s parents, who bought Antonio at the same time for 200,000 pesetas – a huge sum at the time.
‘That was the price of an apartment back then,’ Mr Barroso said. ‘My parents paid it in instalments over the course of ten years because they did not have enough money.’
What a relief it is to find so many people here in the West (and here at WUWT) selling all their excess (that is, excess as compared to a person who has no home, car, cell phone, golf club membership etc.) and avoiding creature comforts in order to give significant amounts of their personal proceeds to the poor. Living an austere lifestyle themselves in sacrifice for their fellow man is the proper example for the RC Church to follow. Hearing so much criticism of the Church’s wealth and the obvious solution to the problem of poverty gives me hope and a perfect example that I myself should consider once I’m back from my month long vacation to Europe. I am in awe of the critics of the Church’s wealth who are undoubtedly using library computers to post their comments after their transit ride from their modest rental apartment.
The difference being that none of them claim to represent Y’shua the Messiah on earth.
MC … they get this close, “Pontifical Academy Of Sciences Pushing For Climate Treaty…Finds Fossil Fuels Akin To “Modern Slavery”!
http://notrickszone.com/#sthash.oznfvdwb.dpuf
Thanks,
That’s from Der Spiegel which isn’t traditionally pro-Church – so cauthion is required.
Even so these two comments imply that the issue is not yet set.
OK, so the Patriarch of Constantinople is concerned. as though Istanbul hasn’t other problems for the Catholocism right now.
Also,
It’s politics.
Yes, just look at the number of quotes from Pope Francis that are in the article. One, err, err, err…Any quotes on climate change? Why bother quoting the man when it’s much better inventing his views for yourself.
“Apparently, he doesn’t know their ultimate objective of reducing and controlling population generally contradicts Catholic doctrine.” Suggest replace “generally” with “fundamentally and broadly” or maybe “completely.” Thx.
The Catholic Church has a great track record on science, just check with Bruno. When Constantine formed the Roman Catholic Church in 300 AD, it ushered in nearly 800 years of massive improvement in technology of torture devices and scientific progress in numerology, astrology and alchemy.
Rome had no science. Rome was an engineering society. They made absolutely no progress on the science of the ancient Greeks – who were they schoolmasters – and their slaves.
This is not the first time that the Church has fallen into the trap of compromising with the world.It is disappointing to see a Jesuit, who are reputed to be well educated and discerning, fall for something as obvious as the climate obsession.
Maybe the goal is to undo the Original Sin of partaking of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. That “Knowledge” seems to be disappearing.
It shouldn’t surprise you, Dr. Ball, that the Pope is supportive of the UN. The Pope is a Jesuit. The Jesuits have been intertwined with the Communists and globalists for years especially in Central and South America. The Jesuits have always been behind Fidel Castro as well. There is no shortage of literature on the subject. In fact, Google is your friend.
Agreed. I once had the pleasurable company of an ex- Jesuit coworker who had left the order over their leftist proclivities.. We had many enjoyable discussions about math and science and the world as it is, sometimes over games of chess, seasoned with bottles of cognac and my wife’s good cooking.
I attended Catholic high school and college in New Orleans. It is the belief of Jesuits and clergy in general that one has not the right to be wealthy, but simply comfortable, while they live in their gilded homes and eat off of gold dinnerware. I asked one of my professors (who happened to be a priest) how Catholic doctrine regarding the wealthy differed from that of Marxists, and he had no response other than to be perturbed with me for the rest of the semester.
Makes sense.
Religion + science = climate science
Kind of like chocolate + peanut-butter = Reeses peanut-butter cup. Tastes good, but of no nutritional vale.
My view:
Overwhelming evidence for Evolution, DNA, Plate Tectonics, AGW = Findings of Science
Overwhelming rejection of AGW = rejection of science = rejection of DNA, Evolution, Plate Tectonics, and other findings of modern day science.
The only people I know of who “Overwhelmingly” reject OR accept all those things are rather weak-minded.
There is evidence for evolution – it is observed.
There is evidence for DNA – it is observed.
There is evidence for Plate Tectonics – it is observed.
But newsworthy AGW- we haven’t seen the tropical hotspot, the acceleration of warming post-1950 or climate models with predictive power. We haven’t go the evidence.
If you let AGW in to the science fold, just because it is studied without finding any evidence, then you really need to let Astrology, Ufology and cryptobiology in too.
But for me, not yeti.
Also, of those topics listed by warrenlib, only one has been declared “Settled Science” (implying no need for further research or research funding).
Pop quiz, match the values:
1. Rate of lunar recession.
2. Rate of separation of Atlantic continental shelves.
3. Satellite measured sea level rise.
4. Maximum ground subsidence in Jakarata.
a. 1.5″/year
b. 1″/year
c. 1/8″/year
d. 10″/year
There’s not a competent scientist on the planet who takes this climate alarm seriously. –AGF
Warren,
Would your views allow you to repost with CAGW substituted for AGW? After all, many noted “deniers” accept some level of AGW (from unmeasureable through trivial to benign).
warrenlb can have his opinion. Lots of folks have wacky opinions, like Jehovah’s Witnesses.
But I note that every comment below his contradicts him in one way or another.
We have the CONSENSUS! ☺
Apparently in this, too.
Warrenlb,
Considering that “overwhelming evidence” for AGW is yet to be presented, AGW is not yet a “Finding of Science” any more than polar bear population decline is.
That unsubstantiated opinion is the basis of your view shows us you have joined the church in figure 1.
P.S. Your statement about what others believe is merely a projection of your own low standards for evidence informing belief.
SR
Dbstealey, some of your opinions are pretty wacky
dbstealey, I know it’s a joke but it’s still playing dirty.
He’s on the away turf – of course we are going to disagree.
The question is whether our disagreements are substantiated.
I think we did OK.
But having done OK on the Guardian I know that numbers of comments are not necessarily proportionate.
M Courtney,
Yes, it was a joke. But my post was substantiated, 100%. When I posted it I noticed the total consensus.
Now there’s one that proves the rule…
Robert Austin, what do we have : CAGW – AGW – GW
Al Gore, Mann, IPCC et al belong to the CAGW category, assuming Armageddon
The Pope, Obama, MSM et al belong to the AGW category
Skeptics/lukewarmers are in the GW category and they assume minor anthropogenic impact
Deniers assume zero or negligible impact and by definition not in the GW category.
It becomes a little bit more difficult nowadays due to the fact it changes to CC-climatechange
Maybe it’s necessary to standardise the definitions
JJM Gommers
February 1, 2015 at 12:33 pm
////////////////////////////////////////////
Perhaps you could try the term “Hard sceptic” instead of “denier” .The first use of the “D” word in the climate debate was to equate AGW sceptics with holocaust deniers.
As a hard sceptic, I see those adopting the Lukewarmer position making this an endless battle. The debate is winnable, but only when the hard sceptic position is adopted by far more sceptics.
I believe the reason so many sceptics hold the lukewarmer position is fear. Fear of looking foolish. “warming, but less than we thought” seems “safe” for those who fear they don’t fully understand the physics. At WUWT, this fear drives many lukewarmers to attack hard sceptics in what they believe is an effort to keep sceptics looking reasonable.
But to be a lukewarmer you have to believe unreasonable things –
– believing you can use the two stream approximation of radiative physics within the Hohlrumn of the atmosphere.
– believing that the oceans are a near blackbody not a SW selective surface.
– believing the oceans would freeze without DWLWIR.
– believing incident LWIR can slow the cooling rate of water free to evaporatively cool.
– believing adding radiative gases to the atmosphere will reduce the atmosphere’s radiative cooling ability.
– believing radiative subsidence plays no role in tropospheric vertical circulation.
The lukewarmer position is not so much a position of reason, it seems more a position of fear.
Anthropogenic Climate Change may not be a “conspiracy” designed to lead to socialism, but it has been co-opted for that purpose by the left. This is why they are so vehemently insistent that the “debate is over” and we get on to “solving the problem”.
Of course all of these solutions require “progressive” or outright socialist solutions; punitive taxation, loss of individual property rights, government imposed rationing of resources, cap and trade schemes, redistribution of wealth.
Naturalism and Conservation have undergone the political transformation to Environmentalism and then on to “Environmental Justice” which is just a quasi-religious branch of the real core of the lefts agenda the “Social Justice Movement”.
Pope Francis is only too eager to make the Catholic Church an ally in the “struggle”.
If the shoe was on the other foot, the typical lefty Marxist warmist would howl and piss and moan if a conservative religious icon stood up and told the world what it had to do, whatever it was, and they would shout that person down. Hypocrites.
The FALSE PROPHET here is a scientifically clueless foolish tool. The scary part is he is working with the most anti-Christian rabblerouser this country has ever had as an occupant of the oval office.
The grand pooba ought to think really carefully here: as temperatures drop off from low solar activity during the next few years, he will clearly be seen as either stupid, or a liar, or both, and his personal credibility and that of his church will drop off precipitiously with the temperatures.
Does the leader of one of the world’s largest religions really think God intended for humanity to be led down the destructive Agenda 21 road based on a pack of lies?
It was almost 400 years ago in 1616 when Pope Paul V visited judgement on Galileo. Just because he went against the consensus of the time. Pope Francis will find his much more educated flock of today far less amenable to any appeals to his authority in matters scientific. Well me for one.
Sorry Tim – but the “proven dynamics of the Demographic Transition” is not proven. It’s hocus pocus. Look at ancient Greece and Rome when demographic decline brought in the destruction of their empires followed by the “Dark Ages” now relabelled the “Medieval Ages”. Look at ancient Egypt when demographic decline brought in the “Dark Ages.” There are many, many examples throughout history and it has nothing to do with modernism or industrial development. Look at demographics like the way sceptics look at climate data and you will see cyclical trends. Look at demographics like an alarmist and you will see unprecedented trends.
False. Demographic Transition is a primarily an effect from mass wealth brought by the benefits of the industrial revolution fueled by free market capitalism.
The indigenous US population would stabilize by about 2040 if not for over a million immigrants we allow here every year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wm4KVpVLOE For every million we allow to come here from the third world each year – the third world produces another 10 million. https://www.numbersusa.com/
Clearly bringing 1/9 of them here every year is NOT going to solve anything and having that many is endangering the very cultural that created the wealth by supplanting it with a culture of government dependency. Instead of expecting individual resourcefulness from immigrants to the USA who came here for economic opportunity, were seeing way too many come here expecting a handout and they are producing children who want the same thing. The third world must become rich on their own by developing their own resources the same way that we did. Only then will their populations also stabilize but CAGW charlatans stand in the way of allowing that to happen.
“False. Demographic Transition is a primarily an effect from mass wealth brought by the benefits of the industrial revolution fueled by free market capitalism. ”
***********
Nothing that you’ve said following the first paragraph supports your first paragraph. Anyone can make up a theory as to why population increases and declines. You can even blame it on sunspots, weather cycles and agricultural development. Someone is bound to say its all this and everything.
islam brought on the dark ages. check the dates of the dark ages. coincides with the muslim advance, the barbarians actually took to the civilization of the Romans and preceded the dark ages and the muslim expansion..
Actually the dark ages is generally attributed to what followed the fall of Western Rome. The great flowering of the sciences occurred in Muslim Spain with development in medicine, mathematics, astronomy and many other sciences. Western medicine has been greatly influenced by these developments. Many medical instruments and diagnoses developed there were used in Western medicine well into the 20th century. From the 13th to 15th century Muslim population in the Middle East, North Africa and Spain began to decline while European population began to increase rapidly. Much of the early sciences followed the route of Ancient Greece to Muslim controlled Spain, to Western Europe instead of Ancient Greece to Western Europe.
Golden
…… the dark ages were a direct result of muslim advance. there is lots of recent archeological evidence as well as the Jungers Layer in the Mediterranean. Up to that point there was still a spice route available to europeans as well as law and civilization (not the same as the height of the Roman empire but still in the same context). After the encroachment of islam then history stops. no construction no books (the muslims burned all the books they came across save one). In fact you can not show any new construction following the invasion of the muslims in archeological history (with the exception of a sad mosque in Spain), but you can find Roman style architecture right up to that time.
it wasn’t safe on the mediterranean sea until the 1800s due to the barbary pirates. That is when the USA sent the Marines in to pacify the mediterranean.
climate science isn’t the only fraud being foisted on us by the elitists.
Inventions of the “dark ages”: the heavy plough, horse collar, horse shoes, tidal mills, the wine press, the hourglass, artesian wells, the blast furnace, the chimney, distilled liquor, the rib vault, spectacles, the treadwheel crane, the mechanical clock, oil paint, the spinning wheel, the vertical windmill, the water hammer… ‘t Dark Ages were so dark, even the light bits were dark!
Nothing in science can ever be “proven” in the strict sense. In the vernacular however, something that has been repeatedly demonstrated to work is “proven” to work. It has been repeatedly demonstrated that industrialization leads to wealth and wealth leads to decreasing birth rates.
This is quite an unexpected result, because in animal populations, increasing wealth (more food) leads to increased birth rates. This suggests that it is not strictly wealth that leads to decreasing birth rates, but something that comes about as a result of wealth, such as education and mechanization.
John Maynard Keynes was absolutely right … until he was absolutely wrong because Milton Friedman was absolutely right. Too bad Milton Friedman was not absolutely right long enough for most of the younger generations to get to know his name because it seems like Keynes could be right again. So it is with the “Demographic Transition.” It is a micro study that explains as much as needed to satisfy the need that no more study is needed until it can explain no more.
A side effect of DT is a shift in the social classes with subsequent birthrates. Education lowers the birthrate but indoctrination(religion) is doing the opposite.
The pope is a humble man. He knows what the poor live like.
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/7/22/1374490815828/Pope-Francis-sets-off-for-008.jpg
http://farm8.static.flickr.com/7294/11531599504_6f8a3f6ff0_m.jpg
http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/life/welltraveled/2011/12/vatican/111202_WT_day4_museums.jpg.CROP.rectangle2-mediumsmall.jpg
In fairness, he could live there but chooses to live in an apartment instead.
Well he is supposed t be the “Last One” after all, so maybe he has decided to shape up:
don’t be fooled by the poser …he is a full blown communist.
GPM, I agree. If it walks like a duck, and has feathers, and quacks…
Still waiting for him to put a ” For Sale” sign on the Vatican.
Eamon.
I doubt any pope joined the priesthood 40+ years earlier in their careers because it was a guaranteed path to a lifestyle of palaces and private jets. It’s the office, not the man, that justifies those trappings. That’s like asking why does this Obama guy get to live in a beautiful mansion on 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and gallivant around the world in a custom one-of-a-kind 747 with a really hot blue and white paint scheme? How unfair is that?
Its not uncommon that a nation, religion, foundation, association, or multi-billion dollar corporation has a really sweet headquarters for its leader of the day to occupy while in office. They don’t give it to him at retirement and build a new one for the next guy.
Pretty sure when this pope dies, in his will it’s not going to say “to my favorite nephew I bequeath my St. Peter’s basilica, and to my beloved sister I leave my Sistine Chapel.”
On a slightly different tangent (apologies to Jimbo for spelling it out here), complaining about the incalculably high value of the Vatican’s art collection forgets that it was the Catholic Church that commissioned those works in the first place. Its like asking where did Bill Gates get the money to purchase the tens of billions of dollars of Microsoft shares that he owns.
Maybe it does here and there, but I’m willing to bet that the church generally is not running around with an open checkbook buying outrageously expensive works of art (or basilicas and cathedrals) just to improve its collection’s worth. I think its yet to raise its paddle at auction to snatch up any Warhols, Hirsts, or Lichtensteins.
Rather it keeps the great majority of all these priceless pieces of art it owns accessible for anyone to see (yeah, yeah, for the price of an admission ticket). If Michelangelo’s Pieta was privately owned, it’d be sitting in the lobby of Donald Trump’s “Trump Vatican City” only to be seen by people he wants to impress or are rich enough to be able to afford the price of admission.
Though my real point is that a Trump couldn’t buy the Pieta in the first place because it wouldn’t exist had the church not commissioned it. Its not the Vatican’s fault that it commissioned a piece of marble from a starving artist that after four hundred came to be seen as beyond value.
(Though I will concede that the church, at least in the US, can pay ridiculous sums of money for new art and architecture it commissions today. From the Wikipedia article of the LA cathedral Roger Cardinal Mahony had built:
“$5 million was budgeted for the altar, the main bronze doors cost $3 million, $2 million was budgeted for the wooden ambo (lectern) and $1 million for the tabernacle. $1 million was budgeted for the cathedra (bishop’s chair), $250,000 for the presider’s chair, $250,000 for each deacon’s chair, and $150,000 for each visiting bishops’ chair, while pews cost an average of $50,000 each. The cantor’s stand cost $100,000 while each bronze chandelier/speaker cost $150,000.[12] The great costs incurred in its construction and Mahony’s long efforts to get it built led critics to dub it the “Taj Mahony”[13] and the “Rog Mahal”.[14]”
And the building’s double-butt-ugly to boot. How Cardinal Rog was able to drive around town, seeing all the poor on LA’s streets, and spent what he spent with a clear conscience is beyond me.)
Rock bottom
Now we know that if you want to be a good catholic you cannot believe in anthropogenic global warming.
This article is the silliest I’ve seen in a while
/jan
I agree,
Agreed.
Not so silly to me. Of course I went to school as an engineer and do not espouse science for science sake and may it be of no use to anyone. Apparently you wish politics to trump science.
TRB,
If you’ve notivced in the comments over the past couple months, the MMGW scare is all politics to some folks.
What would you expect from a bunch of mindless Communist zombies, DB? The cure for cancer?
One wonders whether these three are in the same office. Sorry Jan but rock bottom is http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/01/30/time-magazines-jeffrey-kluger-writes-what-might-possibly-be-the-stupidest-article-about-climate-ever-climate-change-causes-volcanoes/
Jan / David / warrenlb: Oh, look, the three Kool-Aid kids are here!
The Pope is supposedly influential among his group, so what he says would have some bearing on the actions and beliefs of those followers. So, to this extent, what he says is important. However, as shown by historical pronouncements, the Pope’s scientific views and accuracy are rarely in agreement.
You perhaps read the article with a preconceived idea of what it would say and so that is what you ‘saw’ when you read it.
The article said that the Agenda 21/Club of Rome approach is one based on the ideas of Malthus, the world is overpopulated and is consuming finite resources. Therefore, to avoid catastrophe the consumption must be reduced and the ways espoused include among others forcible abortion and sterilization.
Even the most atheist of readers will be aware that even contraception is not allowed in the Catholic church, which are more ‘go forth and multiply’ and that children are a blessing from God. So forcible abortion and sterilization due to population levels, is contrary to the accepted teachings of the Catholic church.
The Pope therefore appears to have taken a rather contradictory position. This was demonstrated by the article.
Note I have not mentioned anywhere in this response global warming anthropogenic or not. So your claim that the article said “if you want to be a good catholic you cannot believe in anthropogenic global warming” is a strawman argument as that was not what was written. It was more that you cannot take the Malthusian misanthropic approach to curing global warming at the same time as professing Catholicism.
Dr. Ball makes some good points, but I agree that “Goes Against Traditional Catholic Doctrine” is not a persuasive reason for opposing AGW.
It is certainly not as though the Catholic clergy have a good record, now or in the past, of getting the science right.
Historically speaking, you’d probably have a batting percentage on science questions that is better than the popes, if you ALWAYS took the opposite position.
Well, how about, then, “AGW is a load of bollocks.” ? I was a Catholic up to a couple of days ago. Either the Pope goes or I go … I went … I won’t be the only one.
Big Bang Theory: Fr Georges Lemaître.
Fr De Grassi argued that comets were outside the atmosphere; Galileo argued they were atmospheric phenomena.
Albert of Saxony (c. 1320–1390) – German bishop known for his contributions to logic and physics; with Buridan he helped develop the theory that was a precursor to the modern theory of inertia.
Roger Bacon (c. 1214–1294) – Franciscan friar who made significant contributions to mathematics and optics and has been described as a forerunner of modern scientific method.
Anselmus de Boodt (1550–1632) – Canon who was one of the founders of mineralogy.
Pierre Gassendi (1592–1655) – French priest, astronomer, and mathematician who published the first data on the transit of Mercury.
Nicolaus Copernicus (1473–1543) –Renaissance astronomer and canon famous for his heliocentric cosmology that set in motion the Copernican Revolution.
Etc, etc, etc…
I thought if you want to be a good catholic, you do as the Pope says. It’s if you want to be a good Scientist, you will not have a ”belief” in CAGW.
Eamon.
Why is it that some people seem to be determined to prominently display their ignorance about things Catholic. Please, Mr Butler, go away and read some book about what the Catholic Church actually teaches and then make some informed comment.
Perhaps he needs to get cardinal pell to give him a broader perspective and listen to the lecture below
http://www.xt3.com/library/view.php?id=7939
Exactly. As a Jesuit ‘product’ of a 12 year education it is beyond me that the Pope appears to lack the academic backbone to apply rigour to belief.
Warmunists like Dope Francis pick and choose which tenets of the Globaloney Change religion to believe in and champion, regardless of how convoluted and self-contradictory those tenets are. His schtick is anti-capitalism, with a soupson of misplaced environmentalism. He makes for a very useful idiot for “The Cause”.
As a Catholic, the Pope’s path has become worrisome. I agree with Dr. Tim Ball.
I do not consider myself to be a good Catholic. I do have an extensive Catholic education. I also have a lifetime of working in Science and Engineering searching for the truth of how it works. Any reasonable and honest assessment of the speculated science of anthropogenic global warming show it to be so small, that if it exists at all, it is a micro minor player in whatever the future climate will be.
Spending billions on a non existent problem is sin when people are starving or sick with no treatment as resources are wasted to prevent nothing. It extreme mortal sin to do this knowingly.
So as Jan said above.
“Now we know that if you want to be a good catholic you cannot believe in anthropogenic global warming.”
As defined by very generic Catholic Doctrine. IMHO.
Golden – “demographic decline dynamics not proven”.
Sorry, but the examples you cite prove it works – of course it’s cyclical, nations emerge, get prosperous, birth rates decline, health improves, and a smaller young population is burdened with a larger older one, making them vulnerable to poorer but more dynamic nations or sub-populations that are growing. Plenty of examples of that, both in history and today, just not a lot of examples of how to get past the problem. Good example from history – how about the British who had to hire Hessian mercenaries during the American revolution, to fight the dynamically growing and younger population of the colonies. Now we hire Blackwater to fight our battles.
Taylor
What exactly were the industrial developments in ancient Greece, Rome and Egypt that caused the decline in birthrates and the destruction of their empires?
Why assume that industrialization was the cause? Demographics is not industrialization.
Wealthy people do not need lots of children to help out with work around the house and farm. They can buy slaves for that purpose. Poor people have no option. They cannot hire their help, they must grow it.
ferdberple said:
Why assume that industrialization was the cause? Demographics is not industrialization.
******
That is not my assumption. Industrialization is part and parcel of the DT as referred to by Tim Ball and the article that he linked to. Also according to wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_transition
“Demographic transition (DT) refers to the transition from high birth and death rates to low birth and death rates as a country develops from a pre-industrial to an industrialized economic system. ”
As I said in my reply to you above, its micro study in my books.
By the way ferdberple – take away the bit about industrialization and the same explanation has been around since at least the mid 19th century, so there’s nothing new about DT except the industrialization part and the modern need for mathematical formulation and grafix.
Another by the way ferdberple – enjoy many of your posts.
I have already explained that it is wealth, not industrialization that reduces the birth rates. The surprise is that this happens, because in animal populations increased wealth leads to increased birth rates. Which suggests that it is not wealth, but something that springs from wealth in human populations but not in animal populations that is the true cause of the reduced birth rates.
However, the point is that Malthusian Theory of Population is fundamentally flawed when applied to humans. Industrialization is irrelevant, except as a source of wealth.
This reads like science fiction, unfortunately when I look around, I recognize it in the world we live in. Quite sad.
While some commentators may not care for Dr. Balls analysis for religious reasons, I think he has done a fine job of showing how these two groups (Catholic, IPCC) are willing to forgive each other certain fundamental differences in their struggle for relevance and power. Of the two it seems the Pope has been a touch less cautious than he ought to have in his rush to endorse the IPCC’s socialist goals.
Well, after all, he is not a “Climate Scientist”!
… so his opinions can be safely disregarded.
And if he were a Climate Scientist™?
In getting involved with AGW and political issues, the Pope appears to have forgotten that famous admonishment — “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s…” What kind of Pope is that?
a communist one
What kind of an exegesis of that verse could possibly lead anyone to draw the conclusion that Christians should totally ignore what’s going on in the world? Of course, the Reformation doctrine of individual interpretation of the Bible has lead to some very strange interpretations. 33,000 Protestant denominations and counting. Take your pick. There’s bound to be one out there that agrees with you.
What’s strange for a Catholic is that Pope Pius XII is, quite wrongly, accused of aiding and abetting the Holocaust by not speaking out against it while Pope Francis is, apparently, criticised for speaking out on a “political” matter. Seems like with some people the Catholic Church can’t win.
this Pope is a communist. a one world proponent and a redistribution advocate. and yes he is actively contradicting Catholic doctrine.
Hidden agendas and mass deception have become the preferred method of governance in the “brave new world”. As religion is among the oldest forms of governance, these tactics have been employed successfully for centuries to control the commoners. The first thing we teach our children is respect of authority and adherence to it, without dissent. Those of authority therefore determine through consensus what is truth in the collective mind of the populace and disseminate it through the media they control. Education becomes mere programming, with the bourgeois discouraged from pursuing higher thought and punished for skepticism of established dogma.
IMHO, it is this which presently threatens the future of Humanity more than anything else
Sounds like “Common Core” doesn’t it?
“…the Kerrys changed their name from Kohn and converted from Judaism to Catholicism.”
Which means, in birthright according to Torah Law, Kerry holds the rank of kohen (כֹּהֵן, high priest), a right which was conferred on the first kohen Aaron, the brother of Moses, and his sons as an everlasting covenant. Exodus 28:1-4
BTW, in case of any dispute over this alleged priestly lineage, the DNA haplotype of the Kohen line has been identified and can be verified. The haplotype does appear to have existed since biblical times, surviving even the splitting of the Jewish genealogy among the Ashkenazim and Sephardic Jews.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Aaron
I haven’t checked the linage you bring up.
But perhaps you should look at the the sons of Eli.
A person’s linage from his fathers does not guarantee his relationship with the Father.
BTW Aaron was of the line of Kohen but not all of Kohen were high priest.
Either way, Kerry has never spoken for God. Ketchup, maybe, but not God.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. From my experiences loony leftist Catholics are amongst the best pavers of that road.
This guy is no Pope John Paul II.or Pope John23rd.
Incidentally, I was raised a Catholic.