An Unexpected Admission from Dana Nuccitelli at SkepticalScience

Guest Post by Bob Tisdale

In Dana Nuccitelli’s recent post at SkepticalScience Matt Ridley wants to gamble the Earth’s future because he won’t learn from the past, he has finally admitted something we’ve been discussing for more than 6 years. (His article was also cross posted at The Guardian here. Yes, that’s the zombie post that has gained so much attention.)

Dana admitted that during a decade-long (or multidecadal) period(s) when El Niño events dominate (when El Niños are stronger, last longer and happen more frequently), the El Niños enhance global warming, and during periods when La Niña events dominate (when there are weaker, shorter and fewer El Niño events), the absence of El Niño events suppresses the warming of global surfaces.

I am not commenting on the rest of Dana’s post. I’ll leave that for you. I’m only commenting on a very small portion of it.

I was somewhat amazed by Dana’s admission that stronger and longer El Niño events can enhance global warming.

DANA’S ADMISSION

Dana quotes Matt Ridley in his post and then responds to what Matt wrote with (my boldface):

This is incorrect – average global surface temperatures have warmed between 0.6 and 0.7°C over the past 40 years (lower atmospheric temperatures have also likely warmed more than 0.5°C, though the record hasn’t yet existed for 40 years). During that time, that temperature rise has temporarily both slowed down (during the 2000s, when there was a preponderance of La Niña events) and sped up (during the 1990s, when there was a preponderance of El Niño events). Climate models accurately predicted the long-term global warming trend.

El Niños didn’t only dominate during the 1990s. For some reason known only to Dana, he overlooked the fact that the 1976/77 El Niño started the period when El Niño events dominated the late 20th Century. Thus, using Dana’s logic, El Niño events enhanced the observed global warming from the mid-1970s to the turn of the century—the first 25 years of the past 40 years Dana chose for his discussion.

There is, of course, a major problem with Dana’s last sentence in that quote:

Climate models accurately predicted the long-term global warming trend.

Climate models don’t consider the ENSO-enhanced portion of the global warming from the mid-1970s to the turn of the century. See Figure 1, which compares observed global surface temperature anomalies for the past 40 years to the model simulations of global surface temperatures. We’re presenting the model mean because it best represents the forced component of the climate models. (See the post here for a further discussion about the use of the model mean.)

Figure 1

Figure 1

The climate modelers assumed that all of the global warming occurred because of manmade climate forcings. That is, the modelers did not consider the portion of the warming from 1975 to the turn of the century that was caused by the dominance of El Niños. But then, according to Dana’s representation, there was a slowdown in surface warming caused by the weakening of El Niños. The result of the slowdown: the models are rapidly diverging from reality. In short, the models did not account for the enhanced warming caused by El Niños and they failed to consider that a period without strong El Niños would suppress global warming.

Additionally, climate models simply extend (and accelerate) out into the future the El Niño-enhanced warming rate of the mid-1970s to the turn of the century. It’s pretty obvious to all but the logic-impaired that climate models have projected too much warming.

(For more evidence on how poorly climate models simulate surface temperatures, see the post Alarmists Bizarrely Claim “Just what AGW predicts” about the Record High Global Sea Surface Temperatures in 2014.)

Yet, skeptics are ridiculed when they write that global warming occurs during multidecadal periods when El Niño events dominate…because of the El Niño events. Example: I’ve included the following statement from the introduction to my book Who Turned on the Heat? in a number of posts in recent years. I’ve amended it with bracketed phrases for this post.

Start quote.

Climate models used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) cannot match the sea surface temperature records that show how often and how strongly ENSO events have occurred since 1900. Climate models can’t even simulate the ENSO events since the start of the recent warming period in the mid-1970s. However, the models need to be able to mimic the historical instrument-based ENSO records. In fact it’s critical that they do, and it’s easy to understand why. The strength of ENSO phases, along with how often they happen and how long they persist, determine how much [sunlight-created] heat is released by the tropical Pacific into the atmosphere and how much [sunlight-created] warm water is transported by ocean currents from the tropics toward the poles. During a multidecadal period when El Niño events dominate (a period when El Niño events are stronger, when they occur more often and when they last longer than La Niña events), more [sunlight-created] heat than normal is released from the tropical Pacific and more [sunlight-created] warm water than normal is transported by ocean currents toward the poles—with that warm water releasing heat to the atmosphere along the way. As a result, global sea surface and land surface temperatures warm during multidecadal periods when El Niño events dominate. They have to. There’s no way they cannot warm. Conversely, global temperatures cool during multidecadal periods when La Niña events are stronger, last longer and occur more often than El Niño events. That makes sense too because the tropical Pacific is releasing less heat and redistributing less warm water than normal then.

End of quote from Who Turned on the Heat?

The CO2-obsessed become incensed when I include that paragraph in a post.

NOTE: If you need a reference for the “sunlight-created” heat and warm water, see the quotes from the two Trenberth papers under the heading of Trenberth’s Conflict in the post The 2014/15 El Niño – Part 9 – Kevin Trenberth is Looking Forward to Another “Big Jump”. [End note.]

OOPS! DANA FORGOT THE AMO

Dana Nuccitelli also overlooked the contribution of the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation to global surface warming over the last 40 years. Figure 2 compares the modeled and data-based Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO), using the Trenberth and Shea (2006) method to determine the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation, in which global sea surface temperatures (60S-60N) are subtracted from the sea surface temperatures of the North Atlantic (0-60N, 80W-0). Trenberth and Shea used sea surface temperature anomalies, but I’ve presented temperatures in absolute form. Obviously, the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation is not a forced component of the climate models, and as a result, the contribution of the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation to the warming over the past 40 years is not considered by climate models.

Figure 2

Figure 2

Some of you may recognize Figure 2. It was recently presented as Figure 25 in the post Alarmists Bizarrely Claim “Just what AGW predicts” about the Record High Global Sea Surface Temperatures in 2014.

For more information on the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation, refer to the NOAA Frequently Asked Questions About the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO) webpage and the posts:

That NOAA FAQ webpage confirms that the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation can contribute to global warming and suppress it.

CLIMATE MODELS ARE OUT OF PHASE WITH REALITY

So we have two natural modes of multidecadal variability that enhanced global surface warming from the mid-1970s to the turn of the century. (We won’t know for a decade or more if the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation has, in fact, peaked already.) Unfortunately the climate models do not consider the enhanced warming from ENSO or the AMO; that is, the models assume that all of the warming from the mid-1970s to the turn of the century was driven from manmade greenhouse gases. As a result, their projections of future global warming are way too high.

The standard argument now from the CO2 obsessed is that over multidecadal time periods the natural enhancements and suppressions of global warming will cancel out because ENSO and the AMO are oscillations. Unfortunately, as we’ve noted, the models align with the warming during a period when that warming was enhanced by two modes of natural variability, and the models fail to consider the multidecadal suppression of warming…for the next couple of decades and any future suppressions of warming.

In other words, the models are out of phase with reality. There’s nothing new about that statement. Skeptics have been pointing that out for years.

For example, Figure 3 illustrates a sine wave with a 60-year frequency. That will represent our data. It is arbitrarily scaled…in other words, it is not scaled to surface temperatures. The maximums occur at 1885, 1945 and 2005, while the minimums occurred at 1915 and 1975. That roughly aligns with the multidecadal variations in the surface temperature record from 1885 to present. Continuing the 60-year cycle into the future gives us another minimum at 2035, the next maximum at 2065 and yet another minimum at 2095. The red line shows a “model” that aligns with the trend from 1975-2005, and in a maroon dotted line, continues that “model” trend out into the future. As you can see, the model and projection bear no relationship with the underlying cyclical nature of the data.

Figure 3

Figure 3

That’s basically what the climate modelers have done. The models align with a naturally occurring upswing in surface temperatures and the modelers have failed to consider the future multidecadal variations in their projections caused by the natural enhancement and suppression of global warming.

KEVIN TRENBERTH’S “BIG JUMPS”

At this point in the post I would normally go into a discussion of ENSO acting as a chaotic, naturally occurring, sunlight-fueled, recharge-discharge oscillator. But it will be difficult enough for the CO2 obsessed to come to terms with Dana’s admission, so I’ll skip that part of the normal plotline. If you’re interested in learning how powerful El Niño events contribute to long-term warming trends, see the following Trenberth “big jump”-related posts:

CLOSING

Skeptics have been preaching for years that natural variability can contribute to the long-term global surface warming trend…and suppress it, in effect stopping it.

It was quite amazing to finally see one of the key members of the alarmist blog SkepticalScience (and global-warming reporter at The Guardian) finally admitting the same. Of course, Dana Nuccitelli forgot to advise his readers that “a preponderance of El Niño events” had “sped up” global surface warming from the mid-1970s through the 1990s, not just “during the 1990s”. He also forgot to mention that another mode of natural variability, the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation, had also contributed to the warming then.

Get notified when a new post is published.
Subscribe today!
0 0 votes
Article Rating
228 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
January 24, 2015 12:24 pm

As Bob Tisdale’s graph shows ( dbstealey comment at 10:05) the climate models are built without regard to the natural 60 and even more important 1000 year periodicities so obvious in the temperature record. The modelers approach is simply a scientific disaster and lacks even average commonsense .It is exactly like taking the temperature trend from say Feb – July and projecting it ahead linearly for 20 years or so. They back tune their models for less than 100 years when the relevant time scale is millennial. The whole exercise is a joke.
The entire UNFCCC -IPCC circus is a total farce- based, as it is, on the CAGW scenarios of the IPCC models which do not have even heuristic value. The earth is entering a cooling trend which will possibly last for 600 years or so.
For estimates of the timing and extent of the coming cooling based on the natural 60 and 1000 year periodicities in the temperature data and using the 10Be and neutron monitor data as the most useful proxy for solar “activity” check the series of posts at
http://climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com
The post at
http://climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com/2014/07/climate-forecasting-methods-and-cooling.html
is a good place to start. One of the first things impressed upon me in tutorials as an undergraduate in Geology at Oxford was the importance of considering multiple working hypotheses when dealing with scientific problems. With regard to climate this would be a proper use of the precautionary principle .-
The worst scientific error of the alarmist climate establishment is their unshakeable faith in their meaningless model outputs and their refusal to estimate the possible impacts of a cooling rather than a warming world and then consider what strategies might best be used in adapting to the eventuality that cooling actually develops.

MarkY
Reply to  Dr Norman Page
January 24, 2015 5:19 pm

(Dr. Page)
The worst scientific error of the alarmist climate establishment is their unshakeable faith in their meaningless model outputs and their refusal to estimate the possible impacts of a cooling rather than a warming world and then consider what strategies might best be used in adapting to the eventuality that cooling actually develops.
Well put.

Matthew R Marler
January 24, 2015 12:28 pm

I think that it was worth noting what Dana Nuccitelli wrote, and I am glad that Bob Tisdale noted it and wrote this comment.

ren
January 24, 2015 1:48 pm

“The paper presents the results of the analysis of changes in sea surface temperature (SST) of the sea area extending to NW from the northern part of the Antarctic Peninsula in the years 1900-2012. Three periods of SST changes were noted: – period covering years 1900-1932 with relatively stable behaviour of the SST (zero trend, a small inter-annual variability, low average annual SST – ~ 0.3°C), – period covering years 1932-2000 with an increase in inter-annual variability of SST and a gradual three-phase increase in SST (trend 0.006 (± 0.001)°C•yr-1, the total increase in annual SST of 0.7 degrees (up to ~ 1°C). The highest average value of the SST was noted in 2000. – period covering years 2000-2012 – a period of rapid drop in SST (trend –0.048 (± 0.010)°C•yr-1, SST decrease of ~ 1 degree). The analysis of monthly trends shows that the changes in SST are the result of advection of water resources with different heat carried from the west by the Antarctic Circumpolar Current. Changes in SST in the analyzed sea area in the last period are not connected with changes in macro-scale atmospheric circulation (SAM Southern Annular Mode, Antarctic Oscillation). The described changes in the SST occurring in 2000-2012 may lead to changes in the trend of temperature changes at the stations on the west coast of the Antarctic Peninsula.”
http://yadda.icm.edu.pl/baztech/element/bwmeta1.element.baztech-765ea956-af53-45fa-874a-494c4c46b8e3
http://www.nature-education.org/cart/current-antarctic-circumpolar.jpg

ren
Reply to  ren
January 24, 2015 10:52 pm
Nick Stokes
January 24, 2015 1:59 pm

“I was somewhat amazed by Dana’s admission that stronger and longer El Niño events can enhance global warming.”
He didn’t say that. He made the simple and uncontroversial observation that temperature rise increased at a time when there was a predominance of El Nino, and slowed when there was a predominance of La Nina. Nothing said about cause. Of course El Nino’s are an indicator of warmth.
And why surprising? You said, two months ago
“The second thing to note about the article is that, while it goes unsaid, it’s blatantly obvious that Timmermann and Trenberth are noting that the annual, decadal, and multidecadal processes taking place in the Pacific can enhance global warming (cause global warming) or suppress it (stop it).”
Again, it’s not unstated, it just isn’t stated in your terms. ENSO, PDO, IPO etc aren’t said to enhance, suppress etc. They are just part of the sum of things that go into temperature trends. Timmermenn said
“Timmermann is very clear about what this means for global warming. “Over the last 15 years or so – the period of the global warming hiatus – the Pacific has been anomalously cold and there has been a very strong negative IPO,” explained Timmermann. “This has now stopped. The negative IPO has stopped. This is the same as saying the global warming hiatus has stopped.””
He prefers to describe in terms of IPO. As Wiki says
“Shifts in the IPO change the location and strength of ENSO activity.”

Reply to  Nick Stokes
January 24, 2015 2:12 pm

Nick, with respect to your second paragraph, if you will refer to 2014 WMO temp/Enso chart, earlier version posted by someone else upthread, you will also see that what you claim Dana said is reasonable is also simply not true.

mpainter
Reply to  Nick Stokes
January 24, 2015 3:00 pm

Oh no, Nick, Dana was quite clear about what he meant: the warming during the nineties was due to natural causes.
You see, Nick, Dana is having some doubts about AGW.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
January 24, 2015 7:40 pm

Nick Stokes Says:
“He didn’t say that. He made the simple and uncontroversial observation that temperature rise increased at a time when there was a predominance of El Nino, and slowed when there was a predominance of La Nina. Nothing said about cause. Of course El Nino’s are an indicator of warmth.”
There will be Global Cooling as per this article http://www.cbsnews.com/news/climate-change-expected-to-bring-more-extreme-la-ninas/ because the incidence of La Nina will increase due to Global Warming !

Reply to  ashok patel (@ugaap)
January 24, 2015 9:43 pm

No, what they say is:
“Three-quarters of those increased La Nina events would follow extreme El Nino events “thus projecting more frequent swings between opposite extremes from year to the next.””

AnonyMoose
Reply to  ashok patel (@ugaap)
January 26, 2015 1:42 pm

So the models which can’t predict El Nino are predicting how often La Nina, and El Nino followed by La Nina, will happen? Odd.

Admin
January 24, 2015 2:22 pm

The alarmists are denying so much contrary evidence they trip over sometimes and forget what they are supposed to believe.

January 24, 2015 2:52 pm

Figure 3 (the modellers mistake) is a keeper. Neatly illustrates why I (a mere technician) knew this AGW stuff was bunk 15 years ago. My process modelling showed that conscious human activities such as construction occurs in cycles. So how the hell could climate processes not be the same?

Mike M.
January 24, 2015 2:52 pm

Bob Tisdale wrote: “So we have two natural modes of multidecadal variability that enhanced global surface warming from the mid-1970s to the turn of the century.”
Two? I suppose that would be the case if ENSO and AMO were independent of each other, but it seems more likely that both are part of a more general cycle, i.e., the “stadium wave”.

January 24, 2015 2:55 pm

Thanks, Bob.
I think the GCMs mainly see the Earth globally and discount too many local phenomena. Mainly it is to facilitate the calculations?
Whatever the reason, they do a poor job of modeling our climate, specially when natural causes are adding to the recovery from the Little Ice Age.

Reply to  Andres Valencia
January 24, 2015 4:58 pm

Andres, some of the GCM model pronlems and limitations are illustrated in essay Models all the way Down in ebook Blowing Smoke. Elevation is important for things like precipitation and advection. The main UK GCM is completely missing the Andes mountains. Seems incredible, but true. The devil is, as you rightly intuit, in the local details. Regards.

Ian Wilson
January 24, 2015 3:14 pm

Great post Bob! You have completely destroyed the alarmist anthem that says that:
“….if its warming it must be caused by human CO2 emissions, if its cooling it must be caused by natural cycles…”
However, I have one point of difference. You said:
“At this point in the post I would normally go into a discussion of ENSO acting as a chaotic, naturally occurring, sunlight-fueled, recharge-discharge oscillator.”
The problem is that the ENSO is not chaotic – Strong El Nino events are in fact triggered by the lunar tides.
Please see:
http://astroclimateconnection.blogspot.com.au/2015/01/the-el-ninos-during-new-moon-epoch-5.html
http://astroclimateconnection.blogspot.com.au/2014/11/evidence-that-strong-el-nino-events-are_13.html
And watch this space for more definitive evidence supporting this assertion.

n.n
Reply to  Ian Wilson
January 24, 2015 4:27 pm

Chaotic processes have sources and sinks, even known sources such as a large mass in proximity. Chaotic process are incompletely or insufficiently characterized and unwieldy. Chaos implies that we cannot predict and our skill to forecast is constrained to an indefinite frame of time and space (i.e. an envelope). However, within this frame, we can apply statistical methods to forecast a behavior with accuracy inversely proportionate to the product of time and space offsets from an established frame of reference — the scientific domain.

Ian Wilson
Reply to  n.n
January 24, 2015 7:25 pm

n.n. said:
“..we can apply statistical methods to forecast a behavior with accuracy inversely proportionate to the product of time and space offsets from an established frame of reference.”
I think that you need to be much more specific about the size of the time and space offsets before you erroneously declare that the ENSO system is mostly chaotic.

Rob JM
January 24, 2015 3:42 pm

When the 4th report came out they claimed natural had been overwhelmed by manmade forcing!
Of course by now everyone should realise that such claims should be taken with a grain of salt and a bottle of tequila while conferencing at the taxpayers expense in a tropical country!

January 24, 2015 4:26 pm

Hmm – your sine wave graph doesn’t show any warming trend, some people claim there has been a slow warming trend since the LIA.
The present situation is interesting, by the sine wave theory we should have been into noticeable cooling by now. A slow rise trend would delay that a bit. But there may be other factors – if they have different periodicity they would counter-act or reinforce each other at different times.

Reply to  Keith Sketchley
January 24, 2015 4:53 pm

Keith, see my Akasofu graphic comment to Bob upthread. Not some people claim. We have been warming since the LIA. Proof: no London Thames Ice Fairs for about 200 years now. But that gets into TonyB (Climate Reason) climate history turf. Go check his writings out rather than take my word for it.
Or read essays cAGw and Unsettling Science in ebook Blowing Smoke, which make the same points illustrated by TonyB and Akasofu stuff.

Reply to  Keith Sketchley
January 24, 2015 8:37 pm

The graph is showing the warm/cool trends, and how they fit into the timeline. Also, note what is stated on the left margin of the graph.
My take on looking at that graph is the cooling will become apparent by the year 2020, perhaps several years earlier.

Eliza
January 24, 2015 6:21 pm

I dont even know why there is a even a post/comment about Nuttercelli here, Complete waste of time on a dingbat LOL

January 24, 2015 7:51 pm

I’m baffled as to why anybody would be interested in what cranks such as Nuccitelli think. If they do get something right, that is most likely by chance anyway.

Christopher Hanley
January 24, 2015 9:45 pm

Bob Tisdale:
Figure 3 illustrates a sine wave with a 60-year frequency. That will represent our data. It is arbitrarily scaled…in other words, it is not scaled to surface temperatures …
====================================================
It was looking a bit like that temperature-wise until Messrs. Hansen et al. got to work:
http://hidethedecline.eu/media/Northern%20hemisphere%20temperatures/NHNatGeo76small.jpg

January 25, 2015 12:18 am

Bob, you have done another cracker of a posting. The graph of the sine wave with a trend extrapolated from one of its upward segments is a keeper.

MarkB
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
January 25, 2015 1:19 am

If you do in fact keep it, you’ll need to quietly get rid of the “Not Scaled to Surface Temperature” label on the y axis that gives away that it is unscientific bullshit. You needn’t be told this, but do not under any circumstances overlay the temperature record or model hindcasts for the time period 1880-1970 or it will reveal “Bob’s Trick”.

MarkB
Reply to  MarkB
January 25, 2015 1:38 pm

Dr Spencer made a similar argument here: http://www.drroyspencer.com/2014/11/a-busted-el-nino-and-the-new-weather-norm/ including a simple model that allowed quantitative analysis of the magnitude effect of AMO and PDO cycles. One of his main conclusions, that CO2 isn’t a major factor in recent warming, is flawed because one can’t properly make statements about attribution to something that isn’t included in the model.
A proper and rigorous argument could be made using the parameters one believes are important and and the particular parameter one wishes to claim is not important and determining the model coefficients for a best fit to observations. This could be done, for instance, by extending the Foster & Rahmstorf model to include AMO and PDO cycles.
Do this and you would have something that would be taken seriously by those who are not inclined to your point of view. The problem is that a rigorous analysis probably doesn’t support the implication of the figure, that is, that AMO is a dominant factor in recent warming. The other problem is that a hypothesis of ocean cycles dominating recent warming is inconsistent with top of atmosphere energy balance and ocean heat content observations.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
January 25, 2015 10:58 am

Monckton I agree that graph illustrates exactly what I have been saying for a long time on posts and comments on various threads.
“As Bob Tisdale’s graph shows ( dbstealey comment at 10:05) the climate models are built without regard to the natural 60 and even more important 1000 year periodicities so obvious in the temperature record. The modelers approach is simply a scientific disaster and lacks even average commonsense .It is exactly like taking the temperature trend from say Feb – July and projecting it ahead linearly for 20 years or so. They back tune their models for less than 100 years when the relevant time scale is millennial. The whole exercise is a joke.
The entire UNFCCC -IPCC circus is a total farce- based, as it is, on the CAGW scenarios of the IPCC models which do not have even heuristic value. The earth is entering a cooling trend which will possibly last for 600 years or so.
For estimates of the timing and extent of the coming cooling based on the natural 60 and 1000 year periodicities in the temperature data and using the 10Be and neutron monitor data as the most useful proxy for solar “activity” check the series of posts at
http://climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com
and esp at
http://climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com/2014/07/climate-forecasting-methods-and-cooling.html

Darwin Wyatt
January 25, 2015 12:43 am

Here’s an admission by Michael Mann that the MWP was as warm as now!
“It is exceptionally unlikely that we would be seeing a record year, during a record warming decade, during a multi-decadal period of warmth that appears to be unrivaled over at least the past millennium if it were not for the rising of planet-warming gases produced by fossil fuel burning.”
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20150116/us-sci–hottest_year-b64ea00652.html

mpainter
Reply to  Darwin Wyatt
January 25, 2015 10:30 am

Mann’s statement is a convoluted hedge that reflects his growing doubts of AGW. The castle walls are trembling under the blows of skeptical science.

asybot
Reply to  mpainter
January 27, 2015 10:14 pm

@mpainter, let’s just call it science.

Jacob Mack
January 25, 2015 4:36 am

In an open system C02 cannot be shown to have any warming effect or what it ‘ought’ to do.

Steve Oregon
January 25, 2015 10:07 am

Dana can only go so far with any new acknowledgements for fear of contradicting the alarmists’ fable so long and often parroted by the David Appell type activists.
“Natural causes cannot explain the warming”.
Appell, “Models are only one leg of the AGW argument. There are physical measurements of an enhanced greenhouse effect. There is the nearly unprecedented rate of change in features such as sea level rise, sea ice melt, and glacial melt. And there is the fact that no other known cause could be causing this much warming, especially in the oceans.”
I’m sure he has already somewhere but I’d like to see Bob’s critique of the mind numbing claim by climate scientists that they have had enough science to rule out natural causes.
I’ve long believed that to be one of the most mendaciously invented assertions by the AGW Team.
And that it was destined to come back and bite them big time.

Justthinkin
January 25, 2015 12:39 pm

highflight56433
January 24, 2015 at 11:43 am
How can any chaotic system be linear? Cough …sputter…
Sputter..cough…it can’t. However that hasn’t stopped the scam yet.

Andyj
January 25, 2015 7:33 pm

Just some thoughts below. No statements.
We all know temperatures drive CO2 variances, so.
I make it 57 years, not 60.
http://woodfortrees.org/plot/esrl-co2/window/fourier/magnitude/from:12/to:57
And 669 years for the low frequency climb rate of CO2 as taken as a full wave sine.
335 half wave and 167.5 year quarter wave. Doesn’t fit anything paleo to me.
Derivatives on CO2 vs temperature does indeed prove Temperature drives CO2 variances. No question.
http://woodfortrees.org/plot/esrl-co2/isolate:60/mean:12/scale:0.2/plot/hadcrut3vgl/isolate:60/mean:12/from:1958
Thoughts welcome 🙂

Reply to  Andyj
January 25, 2015 7:36 pm

Andyj,
Make the scale factor 0.26 in the second link. Easier to see the cause and effect.

Andyj
January 25, 2015 7:39 pm

AAH! Apologies. Ignore the “669” garbage.

January 27, 2015 3:14 am

Dana is now telling us that:
“the economies of rich countries continue to grow well in a warmer world”
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2015/jan/26/climate-change-could-impact-poor-much-more-than-previously-thought
While overlooking that putting a price on “carbon pollution” would make poor nations even poorer.