Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
People wonder why anthropogenic global warming is a politicized issue. Here’s one reason among many. In a presentation aimed at the holidays that is impossible to parody, the Democratic National Committee (DNC) has put up a website called, no kidding, “the Democrat’s guide to talking politics with your republican uncle”.
I loved how they capitalized “Democrat” but not “republican”. And here’s the advertisement for the web page that they’ve emailed out to alert the faithful to the new website:
Me, I’m not a member of either party. I vote for the person not the party, and my general political philosophy is “A Pox On Both Their Houses”. However, I like to stay current with the propaganda from both sides.
In any case, there’s a section of that DNC web page that covers climate. It’s hilarious. Here are all of the different parts of their climate claims:
Climate: 97% of scientists vs. your Republican uncle
Myth
Climate change is just a liberal scare tactic.
Fact
Forgive us for being convinced by the 97% of climate scientists who agree that climate change is real and believe that humans are probably causing it. Republican obstruction on policies to address climate change endangers our environment and hurts our economy.
[Source]
Now, their [Source] is a NASA web page, and it goes to some length to prove that the globe has actually warmed over the last few centuries … but then we all knew that most scientists agree about that. However, in a classic “bait and switch”, it says nothing about whether humans are responsible, much less whether 97% of scientists believe that humans are driving the climate to Thermageddon. In fact, the NASA site doesn’t mention the bogus 97% number even once … that’s their evidence for their “97%” claim??? Do they understand what [Source] is supposed to mean?
[UPDATE: An alert reader pointed out below that there is a link on their page to another page which is supposed to give support for the “97%” number … but doesn’t. Instead, what it has are links to meaningless statements from the boards (not the members but the boards) of scientific societies, plus a citation to the laughable Naomi Oreskes study and such. Pathetic. In any case, the appeal to consensus is meaningless. As Michael Crichton said:
I want to pause here and talk about this notion of consensus, and the rise of what has been called consensus science. I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you’re being had.
Can’t say it clearer than that.]
And alas, even NASA can’t resist the hype. They say:
Sea level rise
Global sea level rose about 17 centimeters (6.7 inches) in the last century. The rate in the last decade, however, is nearly double that of the last century.
Umm … er … no. Not true in the slightest. That claim is the result of splicing the satellite data onto the tidal gauge data, which shows no such rise. See Figure 3 here for details. [UPDATE: See also Steve Fitzpatrick’s comments below.]
NASA also gets all breathless about ice loss from Greenland and Antarctica, saying:
Shrinking ice sheets
The Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets have decreased in mass. Data from NASA’s Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment show Greenland lost 150 to 250 cubic kilometers (36 to 60 cubic miles) of ice per year between 2002 and 2006, while Antarctica lost about 152 cubic kilometers (36 cubic miles) of ice between 2002 and 2005.
While that might sound impressive, that’s an ice loss rate for Greenland of 0.01% per year … and for Antarctica it’s a tenth of that, only a thousandth of a percent (0.001%) over three years … bad scientists, no cookies. That’s unbridled alarmism from people who should know better.
Setting NASA aside, the “republican uncle” page goes on to say,
Myth
Humans can’t do anything to combat rising CO2 levels.
Fact
Except we already are combating rising CO2. In 2012, the U.S. recorded the lowest levels of carbon emissions in nearly two decades . And by taking steps like improving fuel efficiency, we can do more in the years ahead. Because of new standards, for instance, the average car in 2025 will achieve a fuel economy equivalent to 54.5 miles per gallon, nearly double that of cars on the road today. A goal, by the way, that Republicans tried to block.
They say that we “… will achieve a fuel economy…”? I do love the idea that King Barack Canute can order the tides to roll back, or order the average car to get 54.5 miles per gallon ten years from now, and it will perforce happen. The idiocy is revealed by the “.5” in the goal. These are the same fools, using the same kind of “order it and it must happen” idiotic logic who ordered oil refiners to utilize a product that doesn’t exist … but I digress.
More to the point, the reduction in CO2 emissions is NOT from any push, governmental or otherwise, to get off of fossil fuels. It is from the shift to a different fossil fuel, natural gas … the production of which has been widely opposed by Democrats. Taking credit for changes that they opposed … like I said, you can’t parody this stuff.
Finally, whether the US makes any changes in CO2 emissions is meaningless these days. We’re a minor player in the game. Here’s a graphic I made a couple of years ago showing why:
As you can see, the developing nations are now in the driver’s seat. US emissions are already nearly flat. It doesn’t much matter what we do.
Myth
The United States can’t stay economically competitive if we address climate change.
Fact
Climate change itself is taking a toll on our economy. In 2012, climate and weather disasters cost the United States more than $100 billion . And right now, other countries are making huge investments in research and development to confront this crisis with new technologies — which means new industries and new jobs. We can’t afford to fall behind them. The longer Republicans deny climate change exists, the further we fall behind.
The myth of “green jobs” has been exploded many times and places, the latest being Germany and Spain. There’s no cheese at the end of that maze.
And they’re playing fast and loose with the facts by claiming that the $100 billion cost of climate and weather disasters has anything at all to do with climate change. It has to do with weather, but there’s been no overall increase in extreme events … and in fact, the recent year has seen one of the lowest disaster rates in quite a while. Crisis, my okole. See here for details.
Finally, their “source” for the $100 billion number is nothing but another DNC puff piece that has no sources listed, and the figures given are labeled “Estimated” … pathetic.
Myth
President Obama wants the United States to stop climate change alone.
Fact
This summer President Obama announced a plan to reduce U.S. carbon pollution 25% from 2005 levels by 2020. But he also knows that climate change can only be solved if the international community works together. That’s why this November, the President announced a groundbreaking agreement to work with China to reduce carbon pollution and to increase the country’s non-fossil fuel energy to around 20% by 2030 .
It was a “groundbreaking agreement” alright, but not for the reasons they claim. It was groundbreaking because never in history have we given up so much in return for so little. It requires the US to take action immediately, but it allows the Chinese to increase their CO2 emissions as much as they want until 2030. Brilliant piece of negotiation, groundbreaking to say the least. The Chinese are laughing all the way to the bank … and the myth is absolutely true, Obama is left going it alone.
The best part of the web page, however, is that sprinkled throughout the document are a number of links with the little Twitter tweety-bird symbol next to them. If you click on one, it composes an automatic tweet all ready to go out under your byline, like this one:
#FACT: 97% of climate scientists agree that climate change is real and believe that humans are causing it. http://my.democrats.org/yru-climate
And the link at the end, to the website called “yru-climate”? …
Why, of course, that link goes to the website called “your republican uncle”.
Somewhere, the Founding Fathers are weeping …
Best to everyone, whether your uncles are Repuglicans or Demagogues,
w.
PS—If you disagree with someone, please be so kind as to QUOTE THE EXACT WORDS YOU DISAGREE WITH. That way we can all understand the exact nature of your objections.
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This might just be the Christmas spirit talking here (40%) but do these people really believe what they are saying?
Effective Political Messaging can take years of planning and hyping.
Think of something like the Olympics…the planning and the hype start 8 years out.
So if something changes the messaging keeps going on as though nothing has changed.
The Liberal Way. 1, We are better than you.
2. So give us the power.
3. Then we take all your money.
They believe in themselves. If it serves The Cause, It is believable.
If it serves The Cause, if they can just take and spend enough tax money, it is doable.
If it’s not working throw more tax money at it.
That’s another part of the Liberal Way.
That is the conservative way also. In fact it is the mantra of most leaders, although you might want to expand #1 to include “If you want to be better too, follow me/us”.
Believing anything from the DNC or the RNC for that matter, is akin to believing the moon is made from cheese. They are organizations whose only purpose is cheer-leading and character assassination. Hyperbole, hurting reputations, outright lying and lots of money are the tools used for winning elections. Unfortunately these organizations, which have less integrity than persons who snatch purses form old ladies, drive how the electorate votes.
As bad as what Nixon did with the Watergate break-in, that behavior remains and is SOP. What political operators learned from Watergate was how to get away with digging up dirt. When Obama was running for senate, his opponents sealed divorce records were exposed, embarrassing his opponent and causing him drop out. Obama never won an election, until the presidential election, his opponents having to drop out for various reasons during his meteoric rise. Funny that.
The DNC climate talking points are of course ridiculous hyperbole and goofy lies. There is no counter to true believers who uncritically buy into it. My response to the uncle or nephew who is not open to critically picking through the issues, is to ask them to get back to me when the climate stops changing at which point I will become concerned enough to discuss the issue with them.
“Talking points” maybe the worst human invention since sin in the garden of Eden.
I forget where I read “the leftists don’t believe in any of the things they want to subject the rest of us to” (or something like that).
That is linked to the other old chestnut:
Libralism and Socialism are the best political systems by far – until they run out of other people’s money…..
Ralph
still cherry-picking facts!
from Fact re alleged Myth “Humans can’t do anything to combat rising CO2 levels”:
“In 2012, the U.S. recorded the lowest levels of carbon emissions in nearly two decades”
why go back to 2012 when you can use the figures for 2013?
17 Dec: Eureka Alert: Global carbon dioxide emissions increase to new all-time record, but growth is slowing down
After years of a steady decline, the CO2 emissions of the United States grew by 2.5% in 2013…
These are the main findings in the annual report ‘Trends in global CO2 emissions’, released today by PBL Netherlands Environmental Assessment Agency and the JRC. The report is based on recent results from the joint JRC/PBL Emissions Database for Global Atmospheric Research (EDGAR), the latest statistics on energy use and various other activities…
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-12/ecjr-gce121714.php
22 Dec: Reuters: Alister Doyle: Top firms’ greenhouse gas emissions rise, despite call for cuts
Greenhouse gas emissions by the world’s top 500 companies rose 3.1 percent from 2010 to 2013, far off the cuts urged by the United Nations to limit global warming, a study showed on Monday…
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/22/climatechange-companies-idUSL6N0U622A20141222
and all these rises in emissions are occurring during a global economic downturn!
I think that the festive season must bring on some temporary irresponsibility , otherwise how can I account for this little bubble of mischief inside me that says , in response to the po- faced reports above. “go CO2, go ! “
This obsession with CO2 is like a bizarre fetish.
CO2 cannot go down unless globally we suppress economic growth, start killing people off at 50, and restrict child birth. Sure it can go down by some fractional, insignificant amount with alternative energy, but the fact remains the more humanity thrives the more CO2 we will generate among other things.
In maybe 100 years, when it will be clear that additonal atmospheric CO2 is actually very beneficial for nature and mankind, our descendants will only grin and scratch their heads about these crazy climatism cargo-cultists like Obama, Merkel & co… 😉
“CO2 cannot go down unless globally we suppress economic growth, start killing people off at 50, and restrict child birth.”
That’s the Watermelons’ goal. CO2 is just an excuse to get there.
Never make the mistake of believing the left really care about their ‘issues’. They’re just a means to an end.
I guess Pat that if the global population is the same , lets say from 2010 to 2013 that would work. But if that population increased by 5% is the CO increase by 2.5% on a 50% decreasing line ?
see http://www.theeuroprobe.org 2012 – 015 The Great Global Warming Fraud.
I think your voting policy is wise. Strong supporters of either party seem to think that they can save the country from the other side. What a stupid, negative way to approach politics. Voters need to stop being loyal to parties, and parties need to be loyal to voters. How can competition work if you’re nothing but a cheerleader? Raw allegiance is what makes sports exciting but it damages politics.
It seems to me that the left likes to feel superior, like it has some kind of monopoly on the meanings of progress and of compassion. The right likes to think that it has a monopoly on the definition of loyalty and of patriotism. Of course I am simplifying.
You’re largely correct, however. But I think the major difference is in short-term thinking (Dems) vs long-term thinking (Reps). The Democrats want immediate action, even though it has severe long-term consequences. And vice-versa. Take your pick.
Please. The only thing republicans seem to think long term about is that they are happy losing one election after another. Neither party has ideologies to speak of and their political programs are just opportunistic. Consider that, for instance, climate warming was in fact invented by the Thatcher government. Look it up.
Thatcher government was not republican. Thatcher is not a republican.
Though one could say large majority of republicans thought Thatcher was a great politician.
The Left hated Thatcher. The Left loves Castro.
The Left hated President Reagan.
Reagan liked Thatcher, Thatcher liked Reagan. Both considered that could work together
to resolve problems [the empire of USSR being such a problem].
They confirmed and strengthen the long standing alliance between US and UK.
Reagan was considered by many republicans as a great US President.
Many republicans has high hope for Obama as US President- many of them actually
voted for him. If these republicans supported Obama because they knew Obama would destroy the Democrats, then they had skill as oracles.
But it seems to me, that with say, Peggy Noonan, it was mostly a matter of wishful thinking.
The reasonable objective view is that both Thatcher and Reagan were great leaders.
Or at least in terms of grading on the curve, they were the best and brightest in their class.
And fact is that Democrat party has been taken over by the Left.
As the obvious lies and nonsense of this Democrat Guide is a typical example of the Left.
A “path of enlightenment” for the Left is brainwashed public.
This Democrat Guide is brainwashing 101, designed the committee of smartest
Lefties that money can buy.
Keeping in mind, any smart Lefty is sort of oxymoron, and the smartest is a low bar, with a committee of them being a machine that has a runaway effect on stupid.
gbaikie, my friend, you lost the plot a long, long time ago.
The fact is that global warming was created as a political tool by a conservative (so called “right wing”) party. Look it up. It’s not a secret.
As for your beliefs regarding what millions of people “love” or “hate”, take a chill pill. It’s friendly advice.
Thatcher had problems with coal miners striking. The Tories didn’t invent it but bought into it quickly because of that. Baroness Thatcher’s opinions later were that she was sold a pup.
Look it up in a reliable source.
This reply is meant to be to Brute’s comment below where he says “The only thing republicans seem to think long term about is that they are happy losing one election after another.” only there isn’t a reply button under his comment on my computer.
Brute I don’t understand what you mean, The Republicans won the House in 2010, and won the Senate just this year, and increased their majority in the House and increased the number of governorships and legislative bodies they control, in fact by every conceivable measure this year was a landslide year for Republicans. If you are talking about presidential elections well, yes they lost two in a row, but they won two in a row before that.
@Robert B
The fact remains that the meme of climate warming was first deployed by conservatives. It only makes matters worse that they admit to lying about its content at the time. But, it’s ok. Many are lying about it today. That’s politics. And, let’s be honest, “climate” has a hook so the cynics use it. Many more imbecilic agendas have been successfully proposed to then be utterly forgotten once milked out.
@Tom Trevor
I was particularly talking about presidential’s but it applies to all elections. There appears to be an strategy of simply waiting for the pendulum to swing. As if somehow that is enough. Granted, it seems to be in terms of results. Eventually, Republicans are voted back in… and out.
But I expect more from Republicans because I am on the right of the political spectrum. And their program, their language, their presentation, etc, have been at odds with reality for a long time. I was referring to that. There seems to be no fight, no growth, no internal development. Obama, for instance, won without having to face a real political response. There were muppets, for sure, but not a political agenda of substance.
Although it may seem reasonable to “vote for the person not the party,” as Willis said, this still leaves much to be discussed in exactly who is the best person.
I’ve heard for years the claim of voting for the person, not the party, from a considerable majority of people who’ve expressed to me their vote decision rationale. Rarely have I met one who’s claimed allegiance to a particular party. And look where it’s taken us. If you’re preference leans toward totalitarianism, then be happy because we are well down that slippery slope.
Recent history shows us that no matter how “good” a Democrat might seem compared to a Republican, the bottom line is that in critical considerations, Democrats have voted for bigger government. Coercion, bribes, and lies by party leaders have help ensure that process. Just look at the case of Bart Stupak, for one.
Not that the Republicans are better… the true colors of the Republican establishment have been revealed in their otherwise inexplicable votes since the election which showed clearly that a majority of voters favor a different path. But at least there are some in the Republican Party who are resolutely bucking their “leadership.”
If one believes in the principle expressed by our founders that people in government should not rule our lives, but rather the opposite, then voting “for the person not the party” requires a little extra contemplation – and maybe some creative action.
Nicely said, Vic. My reaction to that sentence was similar to yours, but colored a little differently. I have come to the realization (lo, these many years) that once a Democrat is elected, he or she will ALMOST ALWAYS vote with their caucus, so it doesn’t matter if that is “the best person”. Tammy Duckworth is a fine example in my home state of Barackistan.
While I do not swear fealty to the GOP, you can rest assured that I will vote against ANY Democrat- as you mentioned, they are the party of big government and less freedom.
I am a conservative, not a Republican- these days there is quite a difference…
All of these are ridiculously simple to counter if only a democrat was capable of listening to something other than their leftist programming.
IE, any reasonably competent “republican uncle” will attempt to patiently explain why that stuff is incorrect and/or lies.
Indeed, anyone who disrupts the gathering with such blunt statements as:
“X is a Y, Climate Change is a Lie”,
They have already lost the argument.
It would be inappropriate,
But calm discussion of current events can be far more persuasive. New ideas are always interesting (even when wrong) and friendly chat can be welcome.
What’s the alternative, after all? An update on medical news of people you’ve never met and discussion of sporting events from half a year ago.
MCourtney – All very reasonable, except the bluntness is normally from the ‘warmist’ side. So explain where the 97% came from – a very low response to a survey that was then whittled down to less than 100 ‘qualified’ responses of all but 2 answered a leading question in one way. And the response will be ‘we do not believe you – I read it was 97% in [name a warmist source] so it is true.’
Say the Earth is warming naturally out of the little ice age and you will be told – ‘no it’s not, the little ice age was not global it only affected Europe – I read that in [name a warmist source].’
From then on the response to any reasonable point will be derision and ‘no it isn’t ‘. The committed to a cause are not interested in such ‘subtleties’ as the ACE index, they saw the devastating unprecedented superstorm Sandy and this means that all coastal communities will be wiped out if we don’t all move to electric cars powered by windfarms. If you are against this green progress you want all our grandchildren to drown.
End of reasonable discussion.
Solid gold, Mr. Eschenbach, as per usual. Though i invariably remember,”Never interrupt the enemy when he’s making a mistake”. Napoleon Bonaparte, before he came second to the Duke of Wellington.
Many thanks for keeping the Light of Empirical Science shining in the Darkness of Policy-led Nonsense.
” and the Darkness knows it not”. Merry Christmas.
I think the meaning of comprehend here (KJV) was overcome rather than understand or know.
‘And the light goes on shining in the dark; it is not overcome by the dark.’
– Basic English Bible
Words change their meaning. Wren’s St Pauls was described as ‘awful and artificial’. Gordon Brow famously misunderstood the meaning of ‘moral compass’ whilst boasting about his.
‘Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and run with patience the race that is set before us, …’
May we all have the strength to keep running the race in 2015 and speaking out for the light of science and truth.
Nigel S (Uncle and Grandfather)
Yes, words do change, some changing to an antonym of the original: a ‘sophisticated’ person was one who quibbles and picks at trivial aspects of an argument, from the Latin sophisticare. However, ‘sophist’ from the earlier Greek meant someone of wisdom, learning and intelligence. So it seems the Romans ballsed up the Greek meaning and we went back to the Greek…er .. rather we ballsed up the Latin. An Americanism that is younger than I am is the word ‘oversight’. An oversight committee is one which oversees some deliberation or another. I’m not sure whether or not it reaches beyond the shores of North America. Of course the ‘old’ meaning meant just the opposite: an oversight was something overlooked! It still jars me when I hear the modern usage. Perhaps this is the sort of thing that will come into play when the CAGW mythology is toast. Consensus will probably come to mean the majority of scientists who DIDN’T believe in global warming and ‘extreme’ will be ‘calm and uneventful’. Characters like me will have to get a new age dictionary and relearn the language. We know no one is going to say we were wrong… although they could change the meaning of wrong!
Happy Christmas and New Year Willis and all.
As I understand it, support for Democrats is due to collapse shortly.
So this Warmist tactic may well back-fire disastrously!
Thing is that it is not just one fight. You have to be right on all the major ones to defeat them. All they have to do is take a serious run at Prohibition and they could be back in office because the trends on that issue are running in their favor.
already happened in Nov …
Very happy Christmas season wishes to you, Willis, and to your gorgeous former fiance, and thank you for everything you do in the war against ignorance.
Global warmongers are either idiots or scum. But often both.
As always, Willis, you efforts are deeply appreciated. My thoughts, as I sit by my fire and contemplate the past year and things to come, the democrats have passed their zenith. They don’t know it yet but I think Jessie Jackson is about to get his wish. It won’t be long until a whole lot of people realize how nice it is to have cheap fuel and begin to do an accounting of the problems that are hatched in the democrat nest. The talk- to -your- republican- uncle bit is indicative of the flailing about that begins as the catastrophic climate paradigm dies. I am guessing there will be multiple reports in the news papers about an inexplicable rise in certain offspring getting the living dog crap choked out of them by their parent’s sibling.
Nah, Steve… the “republican uncle” guy is far smarter than that. I have 4 nephews, all of whom started out with school programming on AGW. Over the years things have changed. Now they get it… well, 3 of them anyway. There’s never been a raised voice or anything like that. Just the calm explanation that those particular things are just plain not true, examine your sources, determine if they have an agenda. Generally speaking, skeptics don’t. They just want the facts and the truth, not your money or your vote.
Why didn’t they title it “Here’s a bunch of strawman agents for you to whip out and look like a moron”?
Because it would be unnatural for a politician to tell the truth ?
Ah well , Merry Christmas everyone !
It being 12:45 in the morning it’s officially Xmas, so best wishes to everyone.
w.
Cheers boet, Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Willis,
Thank you so much for your efforts … in the past and into the far future. Merry Christmas.
Recently I calmly explained much of the above to a young niece, with particular emphasis on the lack of predicted harms actually occurring (record low tornadoes, decreased hurricanes, etc, and an emphasis on the known benefits of CO2.)
Her response at the end was to get up a bit frustrated at my “good news” and express that my comments depressed her. I did not follow up with asking her why this good news depressed her, as I would have literally needed to get up and follow her.
David A, if you should find out what’s going on with your niece, I hope you’ll report.
I have a good friend who works in the NGO world of liberation media. She tells me that whenever she tries to introduce inconvenient facts into any forum she is ridiculed, shunned and ignored. The room will always follow the approved narrative regardless of how distant it is from reality because to not do so will have a severe effect on funding.
Each gathering is of the faithful as the nonconformists are constantly weeded out. Competence is never a consideration only servility to the cause. The money is “other people’s money” but the gatekeepers are the deciders of who gets what and they are in place because they advance the political position even if absolute lies of commission and omission need to be done.
Hearing her talk I realised how this AGW nonsense has been so successful. As Climategate showed us, if you don’t follow the official narrative you get no money and your career dies away. My friend is out of the NGO world now and is doing commercial radio which is hard, but honest, work.
Merry Christmas
Welcome to my parlour said the spider to the fly.
Any amateur warmist who wants to debate climate with me is very welcome but all my relatives and friends, regardless of political affiliation, look to me to explain climate news anyway. It’s more peaceful but less sparky. I have to take my frustrations out on the odd door to door evangelist who is foolish enough to call.
I have looked at the NOAA web page and the numbers they quote for “shrinking Ice sheets” don’t have error bars. My gut feeling as a scientist myself is that the error on their numbers are much greater than the quoted ice lost of 0.01% per year for Greenland and 0.001% per 3 years for Antarctica. In other words we don’t know if these ice caps are melting, stable or growing.
Indeed, and not all studies support those losses.
… and based on GRACE sat data to boot. A system that misses half mile high mountain ranges but can supposedly resolve ice thickness and sea level simply based on gravity. (I guess water gravitons are different from crustal, mantle and core gravitons when they act on other masses.)
Actually gravity measures are extremely precise (vastly more so than e. g. radar measurements of the altitude of the ice). However they have low horizontal definition (yes, a half-mile high and half-mile wide mountain will be “smeared out”) and, unfortunately, water and rock gravitons aren’t different, so all measurement must be corrected for the vertical movement of the crust under the ice. This correction is very uncertain, particularly in Antarctica.
When you look up the word Democracy it means Rule of the people and can seem like the people have control . BUT if you look up the word rule it means control .So what Democracy really means is Control of the people .And the best way to control people is to control information and learning by the use of “Propaganda is information that is not impartial and used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda, often by presenting facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis, or using loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented” Cheers and a merry Christmas to all here at WUWT .
That’s another Democrat lie. The United States is NOT a democracy it’s a Constitutional Republic. Democracies do not work. Note how neither the Constitution nor the Declaration use the words democratic or democracy and note there is not a “right” to vote. A democracy is 4 wolves and 3 sheep deciding what’s for dinner… basically mob rule. That’s what the Progressives want, an ignorant mob they can manipulate and their propagandists in education, entertainment and the “news” industry have given them that mob.
A Republic is when the sheep all have Concealed Carry Permits
Janice, you are right, and you are also splitting hairs. The basic idea behind the U.S. form of government is, in Abraham Lincoln’s words: “Government of the people, by the people, and for the people.” Democratic government. Let’s not argue too much about that.
The reply is to nielzoo of course.
Sigh, look up the difference between State and administration (government). The USA is a republic, i..e. not a monarchy, administered by a democratic form of government. Stop promoting this nonsense.
Tor, that’s not what Lincoln meant in that statement. That speech was given in a time of kings and queens and he was not referring to democracy, rather that the people were their government not a bunch of royals leading the ignorant rabble around. The fact that a kid from a farm, that ignorant rabble, could become President was his point. We were far less “democratic” as a nation when Lincoln was president than we are now.
Sickening.
Willis, nothing new here; some of us are old enough to remember the Soviet Union!
Politics can be fun afterall
and
Merry Christmas to all.
Well put Willis, the finger wagging, nanny knows best socialism is a curse, that rears its ugly head every time they win an election. They are wrong about global warming, redistribution of wealth before the economy is strong enough to afford it and micro-management of citizens lives.
That said, A Merry Christmas and a healthy, happy, peaceful and prosperous 2015 to everyone on WUWT.
Remember well: if the local atmosphere was absorbing and thermalising global mean 157.5 W/m^2 ‘Clear Sky Atmospheric Greenhouse Factor’ surface-emitted IR energy, it would have to be 15.47 K cooler than the 16 deg C surface. This is a S-B calculation that even the dumbest of eco-fascists, and they are seriously dumb to have fallen for the IPCC fraud, can do. I assume a generously low 0.75 atmospheric Emissivity.
That air temperature would be lower than at any time since the Ordovician ice age, 444 million years ago. The fact that there is no surface to atmosphere temperature drop proves there can be no Enhanced GHE. Furthermore, real CO2 climate sensitivity ~zero, kept there by atmospheric processes that reduce humidity.
So, tell all warmists you meet not only are they wrong, they are stupid; this goes all the way to the top. No professional scientist would ever make such a dumb error. You may check my reasoning by looking at Figure 2.5 of co-IPCC founder Sir John Houghton’s treatise ‘Physics of Atmospheres’ where he shows there can be no average surface-local atmosphere temperature drop because of the convection that maintains lapse rate. One may well ask why he now supports the IPCC fraud.
As for the real AGW, and there was some in the 1980s and 1990s, it was from the burst of Asian aerosol emissions. The same mechanism accounts for ice ages and the 60 – 90 year Arctic melt-freeze cycle, now freezing. Merry Christmas everybody and hope that the New Year will see the chief fraudsters put on trial.
Boy are you being generous. Your emissivity number is over double what it really is. N2 and O2 aren’t really measurable and CO2 is around 0.0017. The only things in the atmosphere that really emit are water vapor and suspended particulates. (Unless you are counting N2 and O2 at 100km+ bombarded with high energy solar wind.) Here’s an interesting read on the subject.
The 0.75 emissivity figure comes from MODTRAN.
I could well be wrong.
I would like to meet Nasif.
Merry Christmas y’all! And a sceptical New Year.
I always fail to understand why those on the left of the political spectrum are so pro climate change. In the west it requires the redistribution of money away from poor people to rich people living in the developing world, leading to increased fuel poverty for the poorest in our societies, surely against what the left stands for. On the right, climate change is pushed as a means to guarantee a safe return from investing in renewable energy technology, so I this instance, redistributing money from poor people (again) but this time to investors (whomever they be).
There are good arguments to invest in renewable technology (as oil is finite) and if we leave it too late, it will won’t be economic to build wind farms. but the reality is, they are a far more expensive means of producing energy, so we will all be poorer as a result. Nuclear is the only feasible solution, yet leftists are against this as well! It’s almost if they hate the poor!
The right wants to make some people rich, the left wants everyone to be poor as it is easier to control them.
“as oil is finite”
There are methane lakes on Titan a moon of Saturn. It seems unlikely that these lakes were caused by ‘carboniferous’ era fossil plants. Once it is accepted that hydrocarbons can be formed without the need for compressing rotting vegetation, then it must also be accepted that the hydrocarbons available may be being continually renewed by a natural geological process. The statement that oil is finite may then be as true as a statement that lava is finite
Maybe oil is to the Earth as sap is to maple trees?
Oh noes, we’re tapping Gaia’s blood!!!
“rotting vegetation”
= sapropel for petroleum
The mind-image you transmit is of swamps leading to coal.
The theory you are supporting is called “abiogenic petroleum origin” –
Worth reading about.
Merry Christmas.
Happy Boxing Day!! Along the lines of this sub-thread, Dr. Thomas Gold has a theory regarding the natural synthesis of petroleum hydrocarbons:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Deep-Hot-Biosphere-Fossil/dp/0387985468
http://joer4x4.hubpages.com/hub/Peak-Oil-or-Nonsense
There is also a Wiki link but due to the controversy surrounding this theory I thought it best not to link to that location. From what I’ve read, his theory is still just that, as attempts to drill deep exploratory wells to find petroleum in locations as theorized were non-conclusive; as far as I could find there has been no further research into the validity of the theory. Still, intriguing to say the least…but I remain a skeptic….more hard data are needed. But it is a fascinating potentiality well worth additional research. New windmills or PV arrays – or research of Gold’s Theory?????????
Happy New Year to all,
Michael C. Roberts
Michael C. Roberts on December 26, 2014 at 9:42 am mentions Dr. Gold’s book. Thanks Michael.
Tommy Gold, the author of Deep Hot Biosphere was a multi- and diversely-talented man. I doubt anyone has so far reported that among his talents was sewing. According to my wife, who sews professionally, he was pretty good at it. We were nonetheless delighted to have him show up to get her to finish something when he did get in over his head!
And he was keen to admit to being (originally) an electrical engineer.
When I asked him how the book was being accepted he admitted he was having difficulty with those who had not read it. Indeed! The theory and supporting evidence in the book is uniformly and tightly argued. Hard to get around the inconvenient questions he asks – except by saying that 97% (a number that pops to mind) of consensus scientists think otherwise. Readers here appreciate the value of simply voting on a science issue!
A top scientist and a fine gentleman: we miss him greatly. And a great book you won’t be able to put down.