A week ago I asked what readers though about the new format updates, and overwhelmingly, readers have approved of the changes as seen in the results at right.
About 25% of the respondents were unsure, and I get that, you have to try new things out to decide.
Some people hate it. I suspect a lot of that has to do with the threaded comments that I enabled that day, though some people are simply resistant to change. I get that too.
Today I want to do three things:
1. Pass on some tips for using the new format (which I have decided to keep)
2. Put some misconceptions to rest.
3. Query readers about threaded comments, which some people love and some people hate.
First let’s cover some things I’ve learned in the past week.
1. Tips for using the new format
Issue: The front page may look different to different users based on your browser window size and/or screen resolution.
This is normal, because the theme is designed to detect and format the output of WUWT based on your display.
For example, if your screen resolution is set for 1024×768 pixels (such as many older computers and monitors) you’ll get a front page that looks something like this:
For those running larger monitors, such as an HD monitor at 1920×1080 or larger, you’ll get a screen that looks something like this:
Note that when running a larger screen size, you get a drop shadow edge with grey background on each side. Some people reported this as some sort of problem, but this is normal. The design has an upper width limit. If it didn’t, things like the sidebar would never work right.
Note also when running higher resolutions, you get the vertical capsules of the 4 most recent stories where when running the lower resolution, you do not. If you aren’t seeing these, you may want to increase your browser window size and/or your screen resolution if your monitor allows it.
Having used every computer monitor style since the era of ASR-33 teletypes and 80 character 10″ CRT green screens, I can tell you that if you not upgraded to a wide screen HD computer monitor yet, you are missing out on a lot.
TIP: To get the most out of WUWT, run a screen/monitor resolution of at least 1280×1024.
Issue: Some people complained about font sizes, either too large or too small. That is easily remedied.
If you have not figured this out yet, use the browser zoom function. All browsers support this. I’ve played around with fonts for over a week now, and I think I have a good mix that “most” people can read. However, there are some older or oddball computer and or browser setups that don’t render fonts correctly, and they look bad on a handful of those.
TIP: Use the CTRL key and the mouse wheel (if you have one to change the zoom up or down) Pressing the CTRL and + keys or the CTRL and – keys simultaneously will change the browser zoom. Pressing CTRL and 0 (zero) will reset to default.
Issue: Some people reported that they can’t see elements on the screen we have been discussing, or that the page rendering looks odd.
This is likely related to your computer hardware and/or browser.
There’s not much I can do about that except to say that the current theme expects a modern computer and a modern browser. If you are still running IE 6 and FireFox 4, then you’ll never get the benefits of the improvements we made. Here is a breakdown of browser versions in use on the net today:
Source: http://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=2&qpcustomd=0
And by browser name:
Source: http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-monthly-201308-201408-bar
TIP: Use a modern browser, and one that is updated. Chrome works best I’ve found, followed by Firefox 31, and IE9 or better. Opera, not so much, and it is not recommended. Android web browsers are still hit and miss, but Apple users on modern versions of Safari seem to be doing OK with WUWT.
Issue: With the new threaded comments, some people say they won’t be able to determine if somebody replied to them without reading through the entire comment thread, and thus that’s a reason not to participate anymore.
I can understand where you are coming from, but there is an easy solution to this that is actually more precise than simply looking at the bottom few comments in a linear comment thread, and hope to see replies to your comments there.
TIP: Use the “find within the page” search feature supported by all browsers. Pressing CTRL and F keys simultaneously brings up the search dialog. It looks like this on FireFox:
Commenter Kadaka sums it up nicely:
I have adapted.
I can find new comments by searching the page for a day like “august 31″, I can find by hour like “august 30, 2014 at 11″ and note am or pm. I can find replies to me by my handle.
In a small way nested comments are better, as before there were a-holes who would give derogatory replies using my words without using my handle, or use some version of my name. I’d have to scan the list to catch them.
Now, when they use the reply option, there it is near my handle, easy to find.
So with that in mind, the comment threading has advantages if you learn how to make use of them.
2. Put some misconceptions to rest.
A number of people have made suggestions about moving WUWT off of wordpress.com and onto some self hosting. Likewise a number of people have made comments about using wordpress plugins to solve issues or add features.
I can’t do either right now. Moving WUWT to private hosting is a HUGE undertaking and has large risks. We have over 10,000 articles, over a million comments, and over 3 gigs of image and video content that must all remain perfectly linked and synchronized.
I’ve studied the issue for months. I studied it more last week. It won’t be easy, and then I’m at the mercy of a company that may decide later to terminate the arrangement, get sold, go broke, or start censoring content because they get pressure from outsiders. I have less risk on my current setup with wordpress.com
Right now, WordPress.com and its parent company, Automatic are in my corner. Why? Well it has something to do with something I can’t talk about by an agreement I have. Suffice it to say that Al Gore got involved in an issue a couple of years ago, and WUWT was the focus. WordPress/Automatic took the high ground on my behalf and WUWT remains in the top 10 blogs on wordpress.com worldwide.
While wordpress.com almost lost me to the recent “beep boop editor” change, they have shown by their actions that they are still a company that listens to its users, and they rescinded the change last week.
So while I’m limited to what I can do on wordpress.com hosting (like being unable to install plugins, edit code to provide special tweaks beyond CSS, or provide some specialized themes) I can say I have better safety with them from attack, not only from things like IP based DDoS attacks, but also from business/dogma attacks. They hold the First Amendment dear and reject the calls of those would see WUWT shut down. I can’t really find a better deal anywhere, especially since wordpress.com hosting is free for unlimited traffic.
So, I’ve decided to stay awhile longer. I really don’t need more work to manage WUWT nor do I want to live under the threat of censorship for daring to speak an unpopular truth.
3. Query readers about threaded comments, which some people love and some people hate.
OK we’ve had a week trying threaded comments. Let’s find out how the readership feels about it.
Again, thanks for your patience, and thanks for reading WUWT.
– Anthony Watts
P.S. Many people have expressed their thanks to me for keeping WUWT going, and I appreciate all those notes. To help keep WUWT strong, please always remember to SHARE on Facebook, TWEET stories, and use other forms of social media to tell others about what we do here. There’s a bar at the bottom of each story with easy links. Please use it:
One thing the Pro AGW crowd does better than climate skeptics is to make use of social media to “get the word out” I’m asking that we all do better there, even though you may find much of social media unpalatable. – Anthony
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
My main concern with threaded comments is that the quality of the comments will go down. It becomes too easy to start a back and forth that becomes mostly sniping, or taunting.
Although I’m not certain, I think that might already be happening. With unthreaded comments, I suspect most people who would toss in a taunt don’t bother because it would be separated from the original comment far enough to lose effect.
I’d suggest that moderators be especially hard on posters who show a tendency to snipe at people for a bit, and use the “snip” liberally for a while again if I’m right and the comment quality starts to decline significantly.
I’d also suggest waiting a week or so and then taking two comparable articles before and after threading and objectively analyzing the quality of the comments attached to each. My guess is that the unthreaded commentary will be much more focused, and informative.
Another way to tell is comment volume. If it doubles or triples, you have to ask, are you really getting better comments, or just more verbiage to plow through to get to the ones that were always there under the unthreaded system?
Try visiting CDR Salamander’s blog. He’s been using threaded comments for forever, and you’ll find some very intelligent conversations over there.
I personally find the Disqus system to be excellent, but I suspect (if usable by WP) it comes under the “no plugins ban.”
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time, and if you please yourself you’ll probably go blind.”
Think I got that quote right.
Hope this helps some here:
The “Home” key will send you to the beginning of the lead post/article.
The “End” key will send you to the last comment.
“Ctrl plus F” keys (pressed simultaneously) will allow you to search the thread.
In case you missed it see earlier comment above for use of the “Ctrl” key : RACookPE1978 September 2, 2014 at 9:13 pm
I used the “Home” key to move from a comment in the middle of the thread to the top and then used the “Ctrl-Z” function to try to return to the comment but if did not work as I hoped. Are there any shortcuts for this?
Perhaps a drop-down with useful tips for using the site would be in order?
Steve P wrote
September 2, 2014 at 11:58 am
You had said previously:
I am not seeing the blockquotes in all-bold italic. Currently it looks like you missed closing the one blockquote and started another instead, until the mods maybe fix it. I can clearly see “Rare” as bolded italic, distinct from the rest.
To me, it’s serif italic, not bolded, that almost looks like a handwriting-style font. That’s with Iceweasel (Debian Firefox).
Ah, a discovery! Preferences, Content tab, Fonts & Colors, Advanced. For “Proportional” I had Serif selected. But when changed to Sans Serif, blockquotes changed to Sans Serif. And that is with it checked that pages can choose their own fonts.
I was using Liberation Serif, changed to something called FreeSerif. Okay, now that’s annoying and hard to read.
I am not receiving a font selection from WordPress for blockquotes, it is using mine. Midori, my alternate browser, is showing strong-looking sans serif italics. Until I change it in Preferences to Liberation Sans, now it is normal looking, and readable.
By my research, WordPress is not giving a font choice for blockquotes.
If you are seeing objectionable bold blockquoting, go into your browser Preferences and select something else for Proportional, see what that does. Also select a minimum font size to make the italic quoting the same size as main body text.
Yes, I flubbed the close blockquote tag after ‘persist’
And you’re right about the typeface styles. In Firefox 32, those controls are buried in the Tools menu, under Options:
● Click the ‘advanced’ button, and deselect ‘allow pages to choose their own fonts, instead of my selections above’
And then choose your own default text settings, remembering the basic rule that it’s always a good idea to make note of current settings before making changes.
Bear in mind too, that in making these changes allweb pages will now conform to your type choices, rather than using their own internal design defaults. ‘Quick check shows most pages look worse with my initial settings, which is why it is generally less work & better appearance to keep that ‘Allow pages to choose their own fonts’ box selected.
Based on my current configuration, WUWT looks better in Chrome, out of the box. & IE displaying properly as well, so the problem is my settings in Firefox, apparently, with which I need to fiddle, and which was in fact the source of the horsey interpretation of the WP defaults, or something like that.
Thanks for your valuable input.
Cropped (so smaller) view of my Firefox32 display letting WUWT choose font:
http://i61.tinypic.com/b99l6a.jpg
If I deselect that ‘advanced’ box & choose my own fonts, I get pretty good results with Arial or Times Roman, and blockquotes appear as I think they should -☺- but I do rather like the standard body text typeface here, so it’s a shame that some of us are seeing this WP theme with blockquotes in a smaller italic font, apparently, of the display typeface being used for the commenter’s name.
You girls ever heard of keep it simple? Of course not, you don’t have any Ren.
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17rx905tq9ztsjpg/original.jpg
Neither do we have any Stimpy.
Stimpy is a real pill, that… Stimpson can make about anything emotionally brittle. 😉 But Ren has a large fan club.
http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2014/02/22/ren-how-did-the-polar-vortex-lock/
Anthony ==> you might add an anchor at the end of the comment column with a link to it at the start of comments, for those who want to go directly to the latest comments. I type on by tablet, and swipe-scrolloing tothe bottomabout wore my hand out.
The “comment column” is a continuous object to below the comment box, there’s no place to put an anchor in right above the comment box.
So the best you’ll get is still the same as hitting the End button on a standard PC keyboard.
Perhaps you need a usable keyboard for your tablet. I’m using a Logitech K400r with my computer.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005DKZTMG
Fuctional as a laptop keyboard with trackpad, uses tiny USB insert for the wireless. Also has power switch, turn off and ignore when not using. I’ve had cats sleep on it, until I saw them.
I see the indent is about 1/2 of what it was yesterday. I think that is good. Still very readable.
Left margin is also smaller? Probably good for mobile devices.
Has the text in the comment edit box gotten a little smaller than yesterday.
I’ve got used to all the changes now except for not having a date and poster at the higher level. I never know exactly how far back I am as I do not refresh until I’ve read all the posts from the last refresh, so I can get further and further behind.
SteveT
Sweet!
It’s all good here! one thought, concentrate more on quality over quantity of posts, a good quality post is more enjoyable and gets the best of of us mere mortals thinking and swinging digs in good form.. 😉
I will join with those who say oldest on top. I tend to not read comments on blogs with newest on top, I’m too lazy to scroll to the bottom and read up, especially if the bottom is on a different page.
I like threaded comments but have no problems with unthreaded comments.
I have belonged to forums that have given users a choice between threaded or unthreaded comments. The option was a simple toggle. That option isn’t available here?
I am more of a lurker than an active participant, but I thoroughly enjoy the site, including the discussions in the comments.
A new CSS update was just posted that solves many (but not all) of the requests made in this thread.
Comments indenting is better, visited links change color now, and a few other tweaks based on user input. “Evil” font (I still don’t get that) changed for block quotes to Arial, and if you don’t like Arial, tough noogies.
Changed the header (for now, we have a rotator of 9 images waiting for a fix)
What we can’t do unless we move off wordpress.com hosting and self-host WUWT:
1. Re-order comments to make newest comment at top.
2. Add comment editing
3. Anything involving (why can’t you simply install this WordPress plugin to add/fix/change feature X?)
These are waiting on wordpress.com support:
Add comment counter back to main page article capsules
Adding a rotating header for various images (works now, but has 1 blank image at random)
Sincerest thanks to WUWT reader Jim Reekes who helped change the early version of this theme into a much more polished one!
Thank you, kind sir. I just got back from a 30 mile bike ride and the changed color for visited links grabbed my attention … and took my breath away (it was the only thing I looked for) … (now, who’s gonna be the first to complain about the color choice?)
If you can’t do newest comment on top, then I withdraw my vote for threaded comments, as new comments to an old thread gets hard to find among several hundred comments.
You don’t know how to use Ctrl+F (PC) or Command+F (Mac) to search the page? If you are using a mobile device get a PC.
Newest comment on top encourages comment spam and is a horrible way to read a discussion.
BTW, now that we’ve got all the caterwauling under control (well, most of it) I’ll now have time to finish up the “really big” announcement that was supposed to happen this week.
Look for it Monday.
Anthony, I don’t know how you did it, but now with CA Assistant Preview the links I’ve visited (inserted with “a href”) are whited out, the text same color as the background. They show up when I highlight the Preview text so I know they’re there.
Likewise the text of the Preview button is a light blue, until you mouseover and the text disappears while the background goes light orage-ish.
Maybe try a different color for visited links than the current orange-brown?
…or maybe just not worry about it, because CA assistant is a custom program written specifically for Climate Audit and the theme in use there, not WUWT.
I can’t support a program I don’t manage, use, or even have advertised compatibility with.
Bottom line – I’m done. You are on you own if you want to use CA assistant with WUWT.
True, you haven’t recommended it with this theme, but previously…
It’s okay, I can highlight the Previewed text to check for link mistakes. It’s still better than making unneeded work for the mod squad.
CA Assistant Preview – LOL
First, get a real browser – seriously. A quick check tells me this is a script, which hasn’t been updated for three years. Maybe I’m wrong about the specific details, but it’s not a real app and just a script written specifically for a few sites. It’s not a real browser, and wasn’t intended to be used in a general sense.
Getting the color white for hover and visited links sounds like a caching problem. It’s not what the current WUWT site is telling the browser. If you’re seeing white, then the script (and/or your system) has a bug.
Try is with ANY other current browser and see if it doesn’t work as designed.
Climate Audit Assistant is a user script for GreaseMonkey that runs on Firefox as originally designed, and Iceweasel (Debian-rebranded Firefox), and also runs with differing Mozilla-base browsers. As seen in the comments on the linked page, it has been made to run elsewhere with programs that allow running GreaseMonkey scripts on other browsers. In 2013 someone used NinjaKit to run CA Assistant with Safari and OSX.
CA Assistant is made for WordPress blogs. Besides the valuable Preview feature, it also provides a toolbar for the comment box allowing easier use of formatting options and insertion of LaTex and images, when supported on those blogs.
Adding other WordPress blogs to the list of those using CA Assistant is easy, Add-ons: User Scripts: CA Assistant: Preferences: User settings, add URL. Thus there is theoretically no limit to how many sites will work with it.
I am running Iceweasel 31.0, a very real browser.
CA Assistant continues to work fine at Climate Audit, just checked, no “white out” problems. The problem is theme-related. Twenty Ten still works, with a few quirks not related to Preview and the comment box. Here at WUWT with the last CSS tweak, white text as I noted, visited links in the comment box and Preview button text on mouseover.
Trying with another modern browser. I installed Chromium, the open-source base of Chrome, as available with the Debian distribution. For GreaseMonkey scripts on Chrome, the Tampermonkey add-on is recommended. Installed. CA Assistant, installed.
CA Assistant working fine on Climate Audit. On WUWT, still have the white-out.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt, invested considerable time in troubleshooting. I verified the problem is not the browser. Both do it, the problem did not exist before the last changes, it’s not a caching issue.
And you really had me worried there the way your comment sort of sounds like you think I was using CA Assistant in place of a browser, which would be stupid to say as it’s not possible.
Thanks for helping out, the site does look great.
No, it was designed for a specific web site – thus the name of this script “CA Assistant.” It is not a generic script for WordPress sites.
No, it is not. It’s caused by the script your using, which is not compatible with WUWT (or many other sites for that matter). Let me explain…
CA Assistant is a script that alters the web page’s HTML/CSS. It is not a browser, but code that assumes very specific HTML/CSS patterns found at climateaudit.org. This is totally dependent on intimate knowledge of that site’s theme. Depending on the skill of the programmer, and the quality of the code, it may work on sites other than CA but you can not be assured of this.
climateaudit.org is using the theme Sandbox 1.6.1, which was released in 2009. If you read the release notes for this theme, you see it states it is “mainly intended” for custom CSS. That makes any site using that theme unique, and makes a GreaseMonkey script be familiar with that custom CSS.
You can look at the very first line of the script, and see how it inserts custom CSS from the CA site. Doing this REQUIRES one to be intimately familiar with the targeted site’s coding. Also note the comment the code, written by the programmer describing this action.
append http://www.climateaudit.info/ca-assist/ca-assist.css/ / grab CSS for the mess we're about to create
The “theme-related” problem you’re having is the CSS code above. The CA script is literally attempting to mix two different themes. This is what’s causing the problems your seeing.
The CA script was written January 8, 2010 and updated only twice to support two other sites. There’s another indication that this script is very specific to a site’s theme. Each of the three sites it was designed to support required three new versions.
When I suggested trying a “real” browser, I meant a current browser with a high percentage of market share AND without the CA Assistant script. The bugs/problems you’re finding are not part of WUWT. They are caused by the script you’re using. Look at WUWT without using this script. I’m sure you won’t find the problem(s).
The dream of a WWW where every site has interchangeable parts is just a fantasy. Even WordPress sites are customized by the theme’s author. GreaseMonkey scripts must be very specifically written to the targeted site, or so general to the point they wouldn’t add much value.
In other words, GM scripts should only be used on the site it was designed to affect. And if that site ever changes, the script will likely break. If it ever worked on WUWT, it was luck and not by design. If it was only the last change of CSS at WUWT that triggered a problem, that was incredibly lucky (though I understand unfortunate).
You’ve got just three choices:
Use CA script as is
Stop using CA script at WUWT
Find someone to modify the script to support WUWT
From Jim Reekes on September 5, 2014 at 2:05 pm:
What we have here is a failure to communicate.
CA Assistant generates the Preview button. CA Assistant generates the Preview text inside the comment box.
If I don’t use CA Assistant, the Preview button will not exist, the Preview text in the comment box will not exist.
That is not the same as not finding the problems on the WUWT site when not using CA Assistant.
Despite your protestations, CA Assistant remains usable on many WordPress sites. If you had it installed you could see it’s named “CA Assistant, Open Science webring edition 0.0.9”. It’s set by default to work with six different sites, which includes WUWT.
I just ran a test. Went into Preferences, turned off letting the page select the colors. The white-out problem went away, “visited links” show up again in Preview in the comment box. The WUWT setting for the visited links color is causing the white-out.
Kadaka: “I am running Iceweasel 31.0, a very real browser.”
Never heard of it until now.
However, the Guardian recommends it:
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2006/oct/13/dumpfirefoxsw
Which is reason enough for me to say it’s likely to be flawed. Reviews I’ve seen are mostly “meh” and complain of some junkware toolbars and other detritus it installs. Your problems are likely related to some incompatibility between the weasel browser and CA and Grease Monkey. No other user are reporting issues. The four major browsers I’ve tested work just fine.
Jim said it best: “First, get a real browser – seriously”.
Are you still running dialup as previously mentioned, or have you finally moved into the 21st century for connection speed?
IceWeasel is an open source rebranding of Firefox with no Flash or anything non-open-source, so it is effectively a useless Firefox clone. It continues in the long tradition of open source advocates not knowing how to properly name anything. Do you get the play on the Firefox name? Lame.
Chromium is the junk version of Chrome, same open source idiocy that does not work properly with pages no one uses like YouTube. /sarc
Anthony do not waste your time on either browser. Ask them why they use them first, that will be a fun discussion, as I already know the answer.
Linux users can install Firefox or Chrome, as both are supported on all the major distributions.
Poptech, I don’t plan to waste any time at all. WUWT is well tuned at this point, I can’t help it if some people want to view it with outdated or crippled browsers, so they’ll just have to fend for themselves.
I’m done.
Re Anthony Watts on September 5, 2014 at 8:57 pm:
Iceweasel is Firefox: https://wiki.debian.org/Iceweasel
I use the backports repository for the latest version for Debian Stable. These days you can install Flash through Aptitude, got that and other plug-ins and add-ons, mostly from the repositories but some from Mozilla.
As said above, I installed Chromium 35.0 (underlying open-source part of Chrome), installed CA Assistant, same thing.
Problem goes away when I stop letting WUWT choose the page colors, “visited links” then show up in the comment box in purple, my pre-selected color.
Anthony,
This is what I do for a living (web development) – and I can say I’m with you on this. Chrome, Firefox, and IE9+ account for 98%+ of web browsers in popular use. Web dev companies don’t generally spend time developing for the 2% who choose to use little-known or little-used browsers. At that point, it’s a user choice and if they choose to be that different, they deal with the problems it may cause.
Kadaka – You are partly right and partly wrong. Just from how it’s been described here I can explain what’s going on with CA Assistant: The previous theme was a fairly basic WP theme. WP automatically builds the page with certain HTML tags, class names, and IDs. So, for example, all comments would have the same tag structure and class name. CAA was obviously built for CA, but since WP is standard, it just HAPPENS to work on other blogs that are also using standard themes. Now that the theme has changed, that tag structure is not the same anymore, so CAA won’t work. If you want it to work for WUWT, you should contact the authors of CAA and have them update it. It might have worked before, but only by accident.
Chromium is not the same as Chrome for many reasons,
1. Chrome is up to version 37.0.2062.103 (Stable). Linux Distros are notorious to lag behind mainstream release cycles with third party applications like Chromium.
2. Chromium does not auto-update making it more prone to security vulnerabilities and for long resolved issues to linger because the browser is outdated.
3. Adobe Flash is not included because it is not open-source.
4. The built-in PDF viewer is not included because it is not open-source
5. Chromium does not support the AAC, H.264 or MP3 codecs (Support for other codecs can vary by distribution).
6. Google does not QA check Chromium releases and any distributor can modify the code before it is released.
7. Chromium does not have Google’s massive infrastructure for analyzing crashes and resolving bugs.
Sorry but I prefer to use a browser maintained by a corporation who knows how the Internet works better than any other on the planet, rather than one released by a bunch of hacks who still think it is a good idea to use their total junk, open-source video driver because the completely free ones from NVidia are not “open-source”.
The randomizer for header images has been fixed. Now there are 9 images which will display at random. If you don’t like the one you are looking at, refresh.
No whining.
This is quite sad. As I said previously, if nesting stays I will drop back to visiting at best, once a week.
Robert, 70% of the readers like threaded comments. I’m sorry, but that’s going to stay unless I find a good reason to discontinue it. Threats of not visiting by a single user would not be a valid reason. See you next week then.
Anthony I recommend only supporting the following browsers;
Chrome (latest version)
Firefox (latest version)
Internet Explorer 11
Safari (latest version)
If you are feeling generous: Internet Explorer 9 for Windows Vista users (they cannot upgrade to 11)
* Also make them uninstall all their add-ons, extensions and toolbars before even considering a complaint, no exceptions.
Everyone else can upgrade to one of those browsers (yes mobile users can install Chrome or Firefox)
Android:
Chrome – https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.android.chrome
Firefox – https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.mozilla.firefox
iPhone and iPad:
Chrome – http://www.google.com/chrome/browser/mobile/ios.html
Yep, that’s my browser test list now.
Anthony, for part of my last comment I said it was personal, delete it. It was a private message to you. You posted it instead.
Your action is noted.
[Reply: There are several moderators. Maybe one of them approved your comment. Wasn’t this mod, but Anthony has to sleep some time, you know. ~mod.]
Ok Anthony, I get the message. Over an hour after I told you, it’s still up. You knew Poptech was hanging around, gotta make sure he gets a good look.
It’s your home on the internet, I’m just a guest. You go have your laugh with Poptech. Bring in Monckton and Mosher while you’re at it. I’m not worth even giving a mention to for the tip for the ‘SkepSci kidz’ story.
I’m only your guest.
Kadaka, I’ve no idea what you are talking about with a “personal comment”. If you make such comments on a thread, you run the risk of having it published. Whatever it is, I don’t see it.
Nobody is trying to taunt you or have a laugh at your expense, but we ARE trying to get you to give up what appears to be some bad habits for use of Internet technology that cause trouble and can be easily avoided. Just use a real browser like Chrome.
As for tips, I always try to give credit when I can, if you feel that your tip was “the” one that created the story, I certainly have no qualms about adding it, but bear in mind I often get a bunch of stuff about the same time by email and/or comments.
But if it will make you happy, I’ll add it.
I am still trying to figure out why you are bothering Anthony about the “Climate Audit Assistant” script on WUWT? The script was written for CA and is maintained there, go bother “MrPete” about it.
Check your email, I sent you the screenshot.
You tell me not to respond to Poptech, so I don’t. And here you are patting him on the back as he does another anti-open source rant even though YOU recommended open source before. And I can’t reply. No Flash in Iceweasel or Chromium? They’re freaking plug-ins!
Google “Iceweasel”, right there it says what it is. You dredge up an old 2006 Guardian blog entry to make fun of it and me. “Which is reason enough for me to say it’s likely to be flawed.” The truth is five seconds away, what you did reeks of a deliberate smear. Moreso by that being about the browser quickly renamed to IceCat by the GNU Project, not Iceweasel from Debian.
You do all that. You post the personal stuff, pretend it didn’t happen.
And then you keep this whole anti-CA Assistant thing churning, when the problem is simply the visited links color you chose.
Sure, I’ve seen that routine enough. “We just want you go give up bad habits. BAM! You ran into my fist again! Why do you keep doing that? BAM! There you go again! There wouldn’t be a problem if you’d just shut up and do what we say. BAM! Again? When will you stop these bad habits of yours?”
I AM USING REAL BROWSERS, same underlying code. Do you expect me to believe you’re too stupid to know that? Really, is that what you want?
And you finish off the abuse with condescension. “Alright you big crybaby, you can have it.”
Well I added it, and obviously you still aren’t happy. I’m sorry about that.
OK, whatever you want to say is fine by me, but it won’t change anything. We aren’t going to support CA assistant (we can’t we aren’t the developers), we aren’t going to make changes specifically for your situation, and I’m not going to get overly concerned about a comment you left where you didn’t want part of it to show up.
You had my email, yet you ran the risk anyway. I’m truly sorry that your half-private comment got published, but I honestly never saw it, nor did I see your complaint about it. Your emailing me the comment screencap was the first I saw of it. I replied to your email about it yesterday.
It likely got approved by another moderator who didn’t notice that my name was midway down the comment. Normally when people want to get my attention, they put my name at top.
So, it likely got approved with many others at the same time because the moderator didn’t realize it was intended for me and half of it was private. In the future, if you have a private message to me you don’t want published, don’t put it in comment that may be published, email it (you have my email) or use the contact form.
The bottom line: I don’t see every comment that gets made on WUWT and I don’t approve every comment. I also get tips from multiple sources often within minutes of each other. Occasionally, I don’t try to sort out who was on first because I’m busy trying to get the story verified and published. To all those who feel slighted, including you, I apologize for not being able to always keep track of who sent tips and when.
Your view of what you think I am and what I do diverge from my actual day to day reality, unfortunately.
Kadaka, I think you need some time away from the computer, because IMHO you are taking all this stuff way too personal.
If you want to continue to be upset about it there’s nothing I can do at this point.
=============================================
[Note: I deleted the comment that kadaka asked to have private, when I saw his request. But I did not approve, or post his comment. Also, if kadaka posts a comment it will show up automatically in the thread, because he is not on moderation hold.
~ Just one mod’s 2¢.]
kadaka, I already explained that IceWeasel and Chromium are not necessarily identical code to Chrome or Firefox. The known differences I listed for Chromium here,
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/09/02/status-report-on-wuwt-updates-reader-poll-on-threaded-comments/#comment-1729615
There can be much more but I would need the source code for each to confirm. You believing the underlying code is identical does not make it so.
You are also almost always guaranteed to be using an outdated browser because of the horrendous way third party apps are maintained and updated on Linux Distros.
You can install Chrome on Debian, so stop making excuses,
https://www.google.com/chrome/browser/?platform=linux
Google also adds themselves to your repositories so the browser actually stays updated.
What part of contacting the author(s) of CA Assistant to fix an issue with it do you not understand? Anthony should not be customizing link colors because some custom script is not working right here.
Here is an interesting rant on the failure of Iceweasel,
http://techpatterns.com/forums/about1435.html
“The problem with Iceweasel and why I am now using Firefox
Because Iceweasel has had a consistent pattern of bugs and major failures in Debian over the past few years, leading up to the most recent set, I decided to finally give up, raise the white flag, and start running Firefox from http://www.mozilla.com instead.
Before I hear from the legions of Debian fanboys, none of whom will pay for my new laptop I would need to get if I kept using Iceweasel on a laptop I run (cpu runs around 70-80% at 1.4 gigaherz) with Debian Testing (as of 11-12-2009), or who will explain how I am supposed to use Iceweasel with my complicated bookmarks if it crashes every time I try to scroll down my bookmark folder list when I am trying to create a bookmark (bug first reported in Mozilla August 2009!, and correctly called invalid because Firefox ships with the correct version of libsqlite), I also want to point out that ever since I switched to Debian as my full time desktop in early 2006, Firefox/Iceweasel has had nothing but problems, so this isn’t some new thing, or an over-reaction to one bug.
I’d like to say, I’m sorry about the Iceweasel groups problems, I’m sorry the dev isn’t into it anymore, and I’m sorry that it’s a complicated package. I understand this is volunteer work, and that we all do this to try to help others, but the simple fact is, Debian Iceweasel is NOT the same as Firefox, and it’s clearly obvious that it’s not trivial work to maintain a package of this complexity. So don’t bother expecting this level, just work around it for good.
So rather than waste weeks, again, on trying to figure out if a bug is an Iceweasel introduced failure, or if it’s rooted in Firefox itself, I decided to finally simplify the process and dump Iceweasel as my default Firefox app. “
No You Haven’t. I used the new Gmail address, same one I’m using now for commenting, no reply. My last email to you is in the Sent Mail folder, I even checked the Inbox right before sending the comment, no reply. Checked just now, no reply. Nothing in the Spam folder either.
And you start your reply here with more condescension. I wasn’t happy about the posting, I wasn’t happy about the pattern. Merely to once again not be mentioned for a tip? Pah.
And now Poptech is dredging up a 2009 blog rant on Iceweasel, rather than actually trying out the thing, while telling me I basically need a label change and I should just use the products, when he won’t even try what he’s denigrating.
Come on, the anonymous hack said back then of the program “…it contributes to global warming and is bad for the environment. Sadly this isn’t a joke.” I’ve used it daily for years and kept it updated, the CPU usage issues were corrected with Adblock and Flashblock thus by keeping the extraneous crud from running, not by my switching names.
Just checked Gmail again. Nope, reply still ain’t there.
LMAO, Kadaka thinks I have not tried Iceweasel recently. No I tried it during a recent Linux Distro eval since it was installed by default with Debian. YouTube among other pages did not work right so I Installed Chrome and all webpages worked like normal. The rant I posted was very important because it shows that Iceweasel is at best outdated and is not code identical to Firefox. Why do you want to use outdated code that is missing potentially hundreds of bug and security fixes?
My evals of Linux keep getting worse as the community still cannot standardize on a desktop and continues to fork more and more, mainly because Torvalds is an idiot and refuses to exercise any authority in this area. Driver support continues to be garbage as the open-source Nvidia driver (nouveau) is about as stable as Windows 3.11 video drivers. I have never seen anything that bad in over 20 years. The official Nvidia drivers that work break the OS boot logo across Distros among other things. Debian Devs appear to be stuck in the stone age, it is stable but not very useful. At least the Linux Mint team appear to be trying to make their Distro work and be user friendly. They are also getting with the program and using an LTS release as standard, so you do not have to reinstall your OS every year and the LTS will be supported until 2019.
The results of the eval was that Linux Mint is still the most user friendly Distro, especially for Windows users but you need to install Chrome or Firefox (included in Mint) to use the web properly, no exceptions. I tried 20 some Linux variant browsers and they are all garbage including Chromium and Iceweasel.
When I am using Linux I feel like I am being punked, sure you are “fighting the man” the only problem is you are also fighting yourself trying to get work done.
You need to specify the Backports repository in sources.list to use the latest version.
Iceweasel through Backports is v32.0. Current Firefox download for Linux is v32.0.
The usual sequence is first install Debian, then add Backports to sources.list, then update and upgrade.
Complaining about Iceweasel being outdated compared to current Firefox when you weren’t even using current Iceweasel… Oh well, guess that’s enough to justify another anti-open source rant.
“The usual sequence is first install Debian, then add Backports to sources.list, then update and upgrade.”
Why should someone have to add a Backports repo to a Distro to install the latest version of a web browser?
How come Linux Mint comes installed with the latest version of Firefox and all the necessary repos added by default so the browser stays updated? YouTube among other websites worked properly out of the box.
Maybe because Iceweasel sucks and Debian Devs are clueless open-source zealots?
Download Linux Mint Debian
Why would people need to reinstall their OS every year? With Debian the upgrades just roll in as released. You reboot for a kernel upgrade, otherwise just keep on running. Every so many years there’ll be a major release, boot as root and apt-get dist-upgrade, no big deal. But it is a good time to wipe and reinstall on general principle, clean out the cruft.
BTW Debian is now trying Long Term Support, see what the demand is, starting with 6.0 (Squeeze).
https://wiki.debian.org/LTS
I was not impressed with LMDE and would rather have an Ubuntu based Distro (for many reasons).
Any update that requires me to use the command line and cannot be done with the GUI is a Linux failure IMO and archaic. I have yet to use a Distro that did not require me to use the command line to fix something.
On CA Assistant:
This was touted for its preview capability. I tried it for a while, but it was really slow on big pages and if I accidentally went to a different page while I had a partially written comment, I’d come back and find it completely gone. I gave up on that, and settled on “ItsAllText” which adds a little “edit” button to text windows and clicking that brings up an external editor of my choice (emacs) where I can edit in comfort. While there’s no preview function, I have an emacs macro where I select some text and use the macro to add blockquote HTML around it. While I still mess up some other stuff, and it’s no substitute for a real preview, at least I don’t loose half typed messages. I’m happy with it. There doesn’t seem to be variant for Chrome or Chromium or whatever.
If only CA Assistant will do, you ought to be able to find the author and encourage him to add WUWT support.
For those that want to try the “ItsAllText” add-on for FireFox, see:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/its-all-text/
I’m still undecided about the merits of the nested replies function, as it may increase the tendency of people to simply “reply” to comments before they read further. This can encourage trolling/thread-jacking.
Previously people had to make a bit more effort to move downward and copy/paste a quote to make it clear who they were replying to, which would also make it more likely that they would read another comment relevant to the title and/or the comment being replied to. I admit, though, that I certainly use the function and find it user-friendly.
I guess it boils down to how you want the blog to be read and commented on, but I think there are already some signs of the problem emerging: I write this having just seen that you’ve closed comments on the John Kerry thread, which is unusual at WUWT. I think Climate Etc. suffers from a few number of people who make sure they get their retaliation in early and often. (I also assume that Climate Etc also has fewer active moderators, so I accept that may be part of the explanation.)
Commenters may like the new format (I generally agree), but a consensus is not necessarily true or right, as we know.
Valid points, and I’m considering them.
As for the Kerry thread, it was also unusual at WUWT in that it contained both religion and politics, two subjects I avoid mixing here. But, with Kerry’s inanity, I had no choice (other than not mentioning it at all).
So, don’t use that as an example, as it is a rare outlier.
Kerry laid an egg. You didn’t when you closed the comments.
Nesting is great for corrections and updates of information. Also for a related link. I would keep it for that alone. If we cannot edit a post, a nested self reply is a good alternative.
We are just going to have to learn when to nest and when not to. A nested replay will be focused, but seen by few.
..yes, “a few number of people” should be “a few people” or “a small number of people”.
Slightly OT.
There are 199,433,494 post at this time.
I expect 200,000,000 about Sept 9, 22:00 PDT. (+/- 2.5 hours).
So to summarize:
The new “visited links” color causes white text with CA Assistant. I have a workaround I can live with. The recommendation is to make more work for the mods by abandoning CA Assistant and the Preview function thus making many more formatting mistakes.
I’m also told CA Assistant is specifically for CA and it’s sheer luck if it works with any site but CA. Although from the start it worked for WUWT and other WordPress sites by design. Monday I read a story on deadline-dot-com, saw it was a WordPress site, added it to the CA Assistant list, comment box there now has a working Preview button for me.
I’m running lean updated versions of popular browsers. I am told this is a “bad habit”. Post-Snowden I’m not fond of browsers that “phone home” without permission. So I’m told I would be better off to get the phoning-home name brands. I’m told it’s a major benefit to have built-in features I might not be using nor need, rather than have them as plug-ins I can pick and choose and disable and remove at will, or instead of handling them under system controls like with supporting certain codecs.
Iceweasel, my Firefox-based browser, is being denigrated by 2006 and 2009 blog posts of then-existing versions. In computer terms that’s denigrating the Ford Focus based on reviews of the Model T and Edsel. Except the first one was actually about the Oldsmobile Curved Dash.
And Poptech says “Google also adds themselves to your repositories so the browser actually stays updated.” Thus I should install Chrome.
If he thinks it’s a good idea for a sysadmin to allow in a program that makes its own changes to sources.list and does its own updating based on them installing as it sees fit whenever it wants, he’s a moron.
I run Debian Stable, currently 7.6 (Wheezy). I write my own sources.list. I download from the trusted official Debian repositories as my primary choice, using Aptitude normally but sometimes apt-get. Through Aptitude I’ve installed Adobe Flash and Pepper Flash, and the available Iceweasel plug-ins. For Iceweasel I do use the Backports repository so browser and plug-ins are the latest possible versions. I do use plug-ins from elsewhere that are otherwise unavailable, as for Chromium, installed from trusted sites, namely Mozilla and the Google Chrome Store.
I have a good running system that I control that does what I want. My only major problem is a slow connection. The consensus of the learned gathered experts is I trash all that and switch to their preferred products which are loaded-up versions of what I already have, to get the fancy official logos and popular names. And I should also make lots more formatting mistakes on WUWT and elsewhere for the mods to fix. Because WUWT now uses a conflicting visited link color.
With experts like that, no wonder there’s a consensus.
To Summarize,
Kadaka does not understand who is responsible to make a custom script work with WUWT.
Nor does he understand that CA Assistant was designed to work with the Climate Audit layout which runs on WordPress and they updated it to support various other skeptic blogs 4 years ago. Just because it works on sites it was never tested on means jack. No I am not going to fix it for you.
Running Iceweasel or Chromium is not going to protect you from NSA snooping.
Yes Chrome adds itself to your repositories so it stays updated with bug fixes and security patches (an obviously insane idea),
https://www.google.com/linuxrepositories/
“Google’s Linux software packages will automatically configure the repository settings necessary to keep your Google Linux applications up-to-date.”
Obviously Google is an extremely evil company and allowing them to keep Chrome updated is an incredibly dangerous thing that only a Moron sysadmin would do. LMAO
Why should we be impressed that you waste your time micro-managing your own PC? Why not use a platform (like Windows) that you can simply install a piece of software because it is compatible with your OS, instead of wasting time adding repositories first?
How do you know the Official Debian repositories are trusted? Did you review all of the source code for every piece of code you downloaded from them?
“I do use plug-ins from elsewhere that are otherwise unavailable, as for Chromium, installed from trusted sites, namely Mozilla and the Google Chrome Store.”
Wait you trust their “stores” to install plugins but you do not trust these same companies to use their browsers? Are you insane?
It has already been explained to you multiple times that there are more differences between Iceweasel/Chromium and Firefox/Chrome than simply the name and logos. I gave you an example in the post I quoted aboveve. Since you obviously have never had to deal with or worked in tech support I am not surprised you are so thick headed like this.
WHAT PART OF YOU SHOULD CONTACT THE AUTHOR OF THE CA ASSISTANT SCRIPT TO FIX THE ISSUE YOU ARE HAVING DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?
REPLY: to Kadaka
I replied from my phone, perhaps it ended up in the bit bucket. I can’t control what happens in the Internet transmission/reception after I press “send”.
As for your concerns, you’ll just have live with them, as they are about your choices and not about any failings of the WUWT website. I have made one other change today, to reduce the size of the captions in images, but the color choices for text will stay. I’m still undecided about comment threading, it has advantages and disadvantages.
I’m closing the thread, since it has become mostly about you and the odd choices you’ve made in software, rather than discussions of improvement to the website.
– Anthony