A week ago I asked what readers though about the new format updates, and overwhelmingly, readers have approved of the changes as seen in the results at right.
About 25% of the respondents were unsure, and I get that, you have to try new things out to decide.
Some people hate it. I suspect a lot of that has to do with the threaded comments that I enabled that day, though some people are simply resistant to change. I get that too.
Today I want to do three things:
1. Pass on some tips for using the new format (which I have decided to keep)
2. Put some misconceptions to rest.
3. Query readers about threaded comments, which some people love and some people hate.
First let’s cover some things I’ve learned in the past week.
1. Tips for using the new format
Issue: The front page may look different to different users based on your browser window size and/or screen resolution.
This is normal, because the theme is designed to detect and format the output of WUWT based on your display.
For example, if your screen resolution is set for 1024×768 pixels (such as many older computers and monitors) you’ll get a front page that looks something like this:
For those running larger monitors, such as an HD monitor at 1920×1080 or larger, you’ll get a screen that looks something like this:
Note that when running a larger screen size, you get a drop shadow edge with grey background on each side. Some people reported this as some sort of problem, but this is normal. The design has an upper width limit. If it didn’t, things like the sidebar would never work right.
Note also when running higher resolutions, you get the vertical capsules of the 4 most recent stories where when running the lower resolution, you do not. If you aren’t seeing these, you may want to increase your browser window size and/or your screen resolution if your monitor allows it.
Having used every computer monitor style since the era of ASR-33 teletypes and 80 character 10″ CRT green screens, I can tell you that if you not upgraded to a wide screen HD computer monitor yet, you are missing out on a lot.
TIP: To get the most out of WUWT, run a screen/monitor resolution of at least 1280×1024.
Issue: Some people complained about font sizes, either too large or too small. That is easily remedied.
If you have not figured this out yet, use the browser zoom function. All browsers support this. I’ve played around with fonts for over a week now, and I think I have a good mix that “most” people can read. However, there are some older or oddball computer and or browser setups that don’t render fonts correctly, and they look bad on a handful of those.
TIP: Use the CTRL key and the mouse wheel (if you have one to change the zoom up or down) Pressing the CTRL and + keys or the CTRL and – keys simultaneously will change the browser zoom. Pressing CTRL and 0 (zero) will reset to default.
Issue: Some people reported that they can’t see elements on the screen we have been discussing, or that the page rendering looks odd.
This is likely related to your computer hardware and/or browser.
There’s not much I can do about that except to say that the current theme expects a modern computer and a modern browser. If you are still running IE 6 and FireFox 4, then you’ll never get the benefits of the improvements we made. Here is a breakdown of browser versions in use on the net today:
Source: http://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=2&qpcustomd=0
And by browser name:
Source: http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-monthly-201308-201408-bar
TIP: Use a modern browser, and one that is updated. Chrome works best I’ve found, followed by Firefox 31, and IE9 or better. Opera, not so much, and it is not recommended. Android web browsers are still hit and miss, but Apple users on modern versions of Safari seem to be doing OK with WUWT.
Issue: With the new threaded comments, some people say they won’t be able to determine if somebody replied to them without reading through the entire comment thread, and thus that’s a reason not to participate anymore.
I can understand where you are coming from, but there is an easy solution to this that is actually more precise than simply looking at the bottom few comments in a linear comment thread, and hope to see replies to your comments there.
TIP: Use the “find within the page” search feature supported by all browsers. Pressing CTRL and F keys simultaneously brings up the search dialog. It looks like this on FireFox:
Commenter Kadaka sums it up nicely:
I have adapted.
I can find new comments by searching the page for a day like “august 31″, I can find by hour like “august 30, 2014 at 11″ and note am or pm. I can find replies to me by my handle.
In a small way nested comments are better, as before there were a-holes who would give derogatory replies using my words without using my handle, or use some version of my name. I’d have to scan the list to catch them.
Now, when they use the reply option, there it is near my handle, easy to find.
So with that in mind, the comment threading has advantages if you learn how to make use of them.
2. Put some misconceptions to rest.
A number of people have made suggestions about moving WUWT off of wordpress.com and onto some self hosting. Likewise a number of people have made comments about using wordpress plugins to solve issues or add features.
I can’t do either right now. Moving WUWT to private hosting is a HUGE undertaking and has large risks. We have over 10,000 articles, over a million comments, and over 3 gigs of image and video content that must all remain perfectly linked and synchronized.
I’ve studied the issue for months. I studied it more last week. It won’t be easy, and then I’m at the mercy of a company that may decide later to terminate the arrangement, get sold, go broke, or start censoring content because they get pressure from outsiders. I have less risk on my current setup with wordpress.com
Right now, WordPress.com and its parent company, Automatic are in my corner. Why? Well it has something to do with something I can’t talk about by an agreement I have. Suffice it to say that Al Gore got involved in an issue a couple of years ago, and WUWT was the focus. WordPress/Automatic took the high ground on my behalf and WUWT remains in the top 10 blogs on wordpress.com worldwide.
While wordpress.com almost lost me to the recent “beep boop editor” change, they have shown by their actions that they are still a company that listens to its users, and they rescinded the change last week.
So while I’m limited to what I can do on wordpress.com hosting (like being unable to install plugins, edit code to provide special tweaks beyond CSS, or provide some specialized themes) I can say I have better safety with them from attack, not only from things like IP based DDoS attacks, but also from business/dogma attacks. They hold the First Amendment dear and reject the calls of those would see WUWT shut down. I can’t really find a better deal anywhere, especially since wordpress.com hosting is free for unlimited traffic.
So, I’ve decided to stay awhile longer. I really don’t need more work to manage WUWT nor do I want to live under the threat of censorship for daring to speak an unpopular truth.
3. Query readers about threaded comments, which some people love and some people hate.
OK we’ve had a week trying threaded comments. Let’s find out how the readership feels about it.
Again, thanks for your patience, and thanks for reading WUWT.
– Anthony Watts
P.S. Many people have expressed their thanks to me for keeping WUWT going, and I appreciate all those notes. To help keep WUWT strong, please always remember to SHARE on Facebook, TWEET stories, and use other forms of social media to tell others about what we do here. There’s a bar at the bottom of each story with easy links. Please use it:
One thing the Pro AGW crowd does better than climate skeptics is to make use of social media to “get the word out” I’m asking that we all do better there, even though you may find much of social media unpalatable. – Anthony
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‘Hate it’ is a little bit of a strong way to put it in the poll question, I think. And thinking makes me tired.
Anyway, good work.
And thanks.
Oh, while one can probably tell by some of my remarks above, I don’t think the new changes are perfect, but overall I am adjusting and like the new look/feel.
I appreciate Anthony and his teams’ efforts and give it an “atta boy” so far.
JohnWho September 2, 2014 at 3:25 pm
Comment to both H.R. and davidmhoffer:
You know, I don’t see why one can’t continue to do the “cut & paste” old method if they prefer.
You can! I just did!
But that doesn’t solve the problem with the thread’s readability since it is still disrupted by those who don’t. Plus, people who use the reply button are going to look underneath their comment for any responses rather than at the end of the thread, so may miss a response to them as a result. In other words, I expect one winds up with the worst of both worlds.
I respect that.
If I’m looking for replies to me, I would use the “find on page” browser option and check the entire page anyway. As long as a reply is either under my original post or does the “cut & paste” trick, I’ll find it.
This is one reason that I would prefer the type of forum you’ll see if you follow my name’s link. All replies stay within a topic and the forum shows all threads that have been active since you last visited it.
However, WordPress isn’t like that, so we just gotta make the best of it. I believe WordPress is much more secure which I would think we would all agree is of utmost importance.
I like the new format and I’m pretty much neutral on the threaded comments.
What I really wanted to say was… a very big Thank You to Anthony for all of the effort he’s put into making WUWT better. The care, attention to detail, and willingness to listen are simply exemplary!
Congratulations on the wonderful work and thanks again!
First, it’s been awhile since I’ve thanked Anthony and all the moderators for their excellent efforts on all of our behalves!! So… THANK ALL OF YOU VERY MUCH!!
Overall I like it. Suspect I know the answer to this but my biggie would be to have a button or link at the top of each comment section (or better yet, that stays on the page as you scroll so you can hit it any time) that would allow us to immediately at will toggle the comments from the threaded version as it is now to strict chronological order as it used to be, and then right back to threaded at will as we preferred. Many bulletin boards like yahoo groups etc., have had that option for years and it’s incredibly handy. Prolly not available, but perhaps worth checking again to be sure if it’s been awhile since you last looked for that option? I’ve recommended it to wordpress before a few times and never get a reply, but will do so again. That way its very easy to be sure one hasn’t missed new posts, far easier than the find button (especially if you can’t recall keywords in a large thread to get to a certain comment!)… and yet more logical and easy to follow in the threaded option.
If you’ve still got the four link limit per post that you mentioned before… I’d suggest perhaps going to perhaps eight or even a few more. Sometimes people are awesome about posting great references in their comments and can include a large number – those posts are often some of the most informative, interesting, and useful ones.
Very minor note, I’d go for slightly smaller body text – it would be a little easier to read and a little less scrolling/more compact. But this size may be easier for anyone with vision problems I suppose. And yes, I know, I could change my screen that way, but then all the other sites that are currently already small enough would be too small and I don’t want to have to constantly reset the computer defaults.
The old version was great as it was, but this new version does look even more polished and visually appealing. I find myself wishing that there was a little more horizontal text space and a little less picture space on the main page – but those graphics do polish it up very nicely. So I suppose I’m on the fence there – I’d like a little more of the initial text with each article on the front page, however. A slightly smaller font might help with that too since more words would fit in the space available.
So, that’s my 2 cents for whatever it’s worth.
Thanks so much again, Anthony – I’ve loved the site for years, and of course, it’s the awesome content, along with the logical yet compassionate and helpful moderation, that’s key. 🙂
And thanks also to all the other interesting folks here! Altogether it makes for a great and informative community.
My bad, and I feel silly – you reminded us of the zoom (which I actually use fairly often for images), and there I went off on adjusting individual computer defaults. Sorry about that – I had a brain short circuit as I was reading all the other comments.
1) Can you do something about the extreme wastage of screen real estate for white margins?
2) This may be a peculiarity of Firefox, but I see *WIDER MARGINS ON SMALLER WINDOWS*. I’m not talking percent. I’m talking wider margins in terms of pixel count. This is totally backwards.
I have a 1920×1080 screen but I prefer browser windows of 960×1080 so I can have 2 windows open side-by-each. Here are a couple of screen captures showing more wastage on the smaller windows.
Narrow (960×1080)
http://i.imgur.com/nB6titG.png
Wide (1920×1080)
http://i.imgur.com/PjDMcub.png
FWIW, I’m using firefox 27 on a PC laptop – if I do a single cmd – to zoom out, the font size looks great – but a lot of horizontal screen space is left unused that way. So I’d still vote for a slightly smaller font size for the main text in articles and comment paragraphs.
Shrink your browser window borders, no screen waste. that’s what I do.
“Shrink your browser window borders, no screen waste. that’s what I do.”
How do you do that Anthony?
Why are you using an outdated browser? Firefox is up to version 32.
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/32.0/releasenotes/
FYI, since version 27, they have fixed over 50 security vulnerabilities.
https://www.mozilla.org/security/known-vulnerabilities/firefox.html
Bad news! This means that there are many more. It would be good news if they had only found a couple and fixed those.
Ah, old algore. The stories his emails would tell. Once you get by the petty childishness, probably totally lacking in content.
Ok, I’m going to take one last final shot at nested comments – IMO, they suck, big time I can read a linear thread FAR faster than I can a nested one. I can find stuff in a linear thread FAR faster than I can in a nested one WITHOUT using ctrl F (and ctrl F is still available in a linear thread – hint). With my Mk I eyeballs, clouded and out of focus as they are, I can usually spot keywords every bit as fast as I can activate and enter words in a search function. Take the click function off your mouse so you’ve got smooth scroll , set its motion speed consistent with your eyeball speed, learn to find “home, end”, pg up, pg dn” and you should be able to out perform your fingers in the search function – the search function doesn’t get the aside comment that catch your interest.
So far nested comments are an exercise in the following kind of exchange”
“did so!”
“did not!”
“did so!”
“did not!”
” mother wears army boots!”
“does not!”
“to bed and to church!”
…
Two or three of those and I leave the thread, usually also WUWT and go read something else.
Now, If you’ve consigned your life to trying to work the net on a tablet, or an Iphone, well,, you pretty much get what you deserve. Content rich site are pigs on most small devices ( I too use a 7″ Android tablet). Android appears to be stillborn – not much new has come out recently for existing tablets, and ALL of the tablet browsers suck too.
I can live with the format and the fonts (they’re actually good for me), and nobody lets a friend use Chrome if they value any sense of privacy (but what do I know I use an Android tablet…).
But lose the nested comments, please.
Anthony, you are demonstrating yet again why your blog is so popular.
Who woulda thunk of soliciting ‘customer’ feedback. Certainly not Obama and Holdren or the EPA.
Kudos.
Just my $0.02, I like the nested comments much better than the old linear format. I did not think I would, but a week has made me a believer. The whole rest of the changes are great. You have done a fantastic job with all of it. A note on browsers, I am using Opera under Win 7, and it works perfectly for me.
Nested comments. . If you use “Recent Comments” and click on a comment from someone whom you would like to read it puts you in the nested conversation without any idea of where you are in the thread. One of the most important features of WUWT, as I have mentioned before, is the instant evaluation of posted comments by other readers who will bring immediate attention to incorrect information so that the those comments are not left to stand as fact. I believe that nested comments do not allow for this free flow of self correction simply because they have greater chance of being unseen. It is much easier to spew misinformation in nested comments.
I don’t find Kadaka’s vulgar language amusing or deserving a quote.
Rad tebya videt! Kak dela?
Pakah.
Just to make things clear to those who don’t know Russian, this particular kadaka’s reply is not vulgar. It means somply “Glad to see you! How are you? So long.” Not an example of any deep knowledge of Russian, I am afraid.
Disclaimer: as far as I can remember, I never answered to any message, or quoted anybody’s message without somehow referring to the author of the message.
Having said that, let me explain to you, dear Kadaka, why real people do not use unprintable words and expressions (even in their abbreviated forms), at least in written messages, especially when they communicate outside the circle of their close friends and relatives.
I spent several months (not by my choice) doing hard labor in the company of inveterate criminals in Siberia. Criminals use unprintable words and expressions all the time; it is their distinct language, because, by using it, they underscore their disdain toward the established norms of the civilized society and formal dignity.
Pampered people, who have not encountered any real hardship or danger in their lives, dally with obscenities, because they think that it makes them sound tougher than they really are. But in the eyes of the real world, this “freedom of expression” looks pathetic and out of place.
It doesn’t mean that using an unprintable word automatically strips a person of other, more respectable qualities. Penn and Teller deserve some respect for their skeptical skits (though they still have no guts to confront the AGW myth directly). However, their propensity toward foul language doesn’t do them any honor. I suspect that (at least in the case of street-wise Penn — Teller, a former teacher of Latin, as we all know, prefers to be silent) can be explained by the necessity to keep their high HBO ratings, and thus to earn more money.
In short, watch your mouth, bro.
I am a nearly 60 yr old linear thinker. Tangents, loops, and threaded comments scare the crap outa me. So my posts will simply be at the bottom of the entire thread. Why? It is way beyond my pay scale and age to change. I cut my teeth on a Wang (black screen, yellow font, burned screen, and in house server taking up the entire basement floor) and a BBS (betting the younger gen does not know what that means). The first calculator I was introduced to was desk size. So this new fangled stuff I will leave to the younger gen. Hell I can’t even beep boop dial, preferring rotary thank you very much. So I will stubbornly refuse to thread and simply attach my comment to the tail end of the whole thing. Long live the rocking chair gang.
And I love this website.
Amuse small children, lift the handset off the phone and tap in a phone number on the hook. Tap-tap, tap, tap-tap-tap-tap-tap etc.
They will be amazed and in awe of how hard it was to call someone in the 1990’s before cellphones.
I’m nearly 70, retired IT professional who can’t stay away from servers, so I have a home data center and some servers hosted in a COLO. I bought one of the first TRS-80 computers sold anywhere in 1979, and the first from the particular Radio Shack store in Bellevue, WA, former home town for Microsoft. Started with twisted wires and Hollerith cards in the 1960’s thanks to the proximity of Cal Berkely. Nothing scares me. But plenty annoys me :). After a short time pretty much any new interface becomes comfortable if not desirable. Give it a chance and it will grow on you. I don’t care for threaded replies because of the secondary problem seen in blinding clarity at Dr. Curry’s site – bickering and an urgent need to get in the last word.
Since we are letting it all hang out here, I will fess up to being 67, cranky as ol’ he!! at times, and have a lonnnggg history with computers and other assorted technologies. Cut my computer teeth on an IBM1620 programmed with an IBM 026 keypunch, sold the first TRS80 Model I business computer system in South Ontario and then spent the next 2 years trying to keep the guy running with Radio Shack’s interpreter Basic (he ran his business successfully with it for 10 years!) I run a LAN of 6 computers at home doing everything from digital radio communications and weather radar data processing to HD video editing. So, I’m not a stranger to the platform. I have 7 WP blogs serving various purposes, so I’m not a stranger to blogging either:) I have a Remington Rand hand calculator with fluorescent numbers that to read right of the decimal. you have to push a button to see the second group of numbers. It has no decimal point, and unlike a plethora of calculators and computers gone bye, this old Rem Ran still works, and the display is big enough I can still read the numbers, which is not the case with some of the new store debit card readers!.
But I’ve also learned that people rarely listen to advice proffered, so I’ll throw my 2 cents out there once in awhile and resist the urge to have an “I told you so” moment. Yes, I can learn to “tolerate” nested comments, but I’ve also learned that I don’t have to be bothered doing so. One of the down sides of attaining the mantle of seniority is realizing that much of what gets people’s knickers in a knot, simply won’t affect you down the increasingly short road…
All of the conversations regarding future “climate catastrophies” have no meaning for me whatsoever other than prurient academic interest, and by my reckoning, climate will be the least of this planet’s worries over the next decade. So whether comments are nested, truncated, delineated, bifurcated, obfusticated or become delapidated is of little consequence in the bigger dialog. The key thing about WUWT is that there is a dialog, and we don’t have to listen only to the megaphone of political correctness incessantly.
Anthony. It”s all good as it is. Some people are never happy unless they are complaining.
Time for a visit to the tip jar folks!
I went to the new nested-comments Poll just now, which Anthony links to near the bottom of this post.
I voted “Love it”, although that’s overstating. I think it does make a better participation-environment, for most tho not all commenters.
If you’d like to applaud for the nested-threaded approach, or if you fold your arms and stare at ’em Duck Dynasty-style … here’s the new nested-comments poll.
Paul, add macular degeneration to clouded lenses and a desire to hear everyone equally and you will peg me exactly.
I used modems and bulletin boards when they were “cutting edge” — along with fax machines reeking of sour chemicals. My eyesight is lamentable, after 33 years of incessant sitting at the keyboard.
But I find threaded comments to be much more logical and easier to use. Try them, and you will find out that answering to several people in one thread is much simpler than posting several answers separately.
And remember: changing habits makes you younger!
Mobile browsing is garbage in general, especially with most “mobile webpages”, this is one of the reasons for the ridiculous explosion of apps. WordPress sites like WUWT however render fine if you are using an updated browser like Chrome or Firefox. Mobile browsing has limitations, get used to it. Nothing should be changed at WUWT because people are trying to use their phone for things it was never intended. If you do not own a desktop or a laptop then I assume you are a masochist trying to have in-depth blog comment discussions on your phone. Touchscreens are torturous, screen-sizes are minuscule and mobile browsers are limited. Sure you seem “trendy” except you are absolutely inefficient and wasting your time, it is generally the same thing with tablets. I actually believe people do not want to look stupid and continue to use their phone for things they should use a PC for.
Kadaka, that is too funny. In the 1990’s I had two college degrees and was getting my research published. Tapping on the hook was a pain in the neck BACK THEN! I much preferred the somewhat linear 1, 2, 3, 4, 5…dialing than the 9 key operator system. The only people using 9 key systems were accountants. Remember the old calculators with the pull bar for “equal”? Looked like the old casino $.05 slot machines but in miniature and without the colorful paint and row of lemons. Or was it cherries. Don’t know because I’ve never played on one.
Are you young enough to remember why it was first called a “carriage return”? 8<)
Or why you sent CRLF (Carriage return, line feed) instead of LFCR to a Teletype? Answer – the carriage took more than one character time to return to the left, so the line feed was sent second to give the carriage the extra tenth of a second it needed.
Nested comments aree good when I read the tread the first time. BUT most of the time I am rereading a tread to find new comments. THEN I nested comments do not work at all. Actually I would like to see that a tread has new comments at to top page.
This can be done with a cookie and little programming.
Not on Anthony’s part, it can’t – it’s something that WordPress will have to change.
Or, you could write a program that downloads the page and reorders the comments yourself. I sometimes think about that. Just a little programming.
Typing over this instruction ia bit annoying ! I’d be thinking the most recent comments on top is the best option. However The Guardian, at the start of every Comments Listing has a viewing option; top or bottom..Readers choice. Brilliant ! Go the Guardian.
I can’t get used to the new font. I’m reading WUWT on my smartphone right now, and it’s a relief that you’re still using a simple sans serif font in the Mobil version. The fonts (both headings and body) of the standard site are far too “plump” for my eyes. But YMMV of course, and I notice that the font looks a little less plump on my windows machines than on my macs
You might see good – or bad – font effects, simply by changing your preferred font-render size in the browser. This is the easiest & best adjustment to try first, since it affects different fonts proportionally.
After that, one can ‘force’ webpages to be displayed in a preferred font, but if a page uses more than one font to emphasize or distinguish different elements, this will be lost.
“Mobil version”
Shh – that’s from Big Oil, people aren’t suppose to know about that connection to WUWT!
On some shift handovers at work when not much has gone on people say “All’s the same that’s not different”.
Changes can be difficult to cope with, some can be for the better and some can be for the worse.
Anthony I thank you for all the hard work you and your helpers put in to make WUWT what it is, I have learned so much about so much thank you.
James Bull
When using Chrome on Ubuntu 14.04, the browser will occasionally hang (50% of the time). The message “Waiting for cas.criteo.com…” is displayed at the bottom of the browser. Pressing the stop (X) button will render the page correctly. This started with the new layout but is probably coincidental.
Criteo is a mass ad-server. The ‘cas’ subdomain comes up in Alexa, etc, fielding 100s of thousands of ‘visits’ a day.
Many people & softwares now try to filter (block) these kinds of ‘services’. More over, Criteo is a “targeting” operation, trying to go after individuals it thinks might yield a better click-return.
Without some ‘forensic’ research, it’s hard to say where in the software-chain the Criteo-request is being made … or where its getting hung.
Threaded comments. I was nervous about threaded comments, because I felt that the standard of comments on WUWT was much higher than on Judith Curry (JC)’s blog, and that the reason was that JC’s blog had threaded comments. Threading encourages trivial comments and silly smart-alec exchanges. I decided to wait and see before commenting here, but it seems to me now that threaded comments have already contributed to a serious decline in the standard of comments.
Funny, Mike, but I posted mine without reading yours first. I agree. (Didn’t this add a lot?)
I’m not so sure Mike. Before, food fights were spread out over the whole length of the thread, whereas now they are condensed in a sub-thread and easier to notice. It may simply be an appearance thing.
I agree, Mike. They have. The old way was better. But if most people want it this way, I suppose we’re stuck with it.