By Larry Bell
Dr. Christian Schlüchter’s discovery of 4,000-year-old chunks of wood at the leading edge of a Swiss glacier was clearly not cheered by many members of the global warming doom-and-gloom science orthodoxy.
This finding indicated that the Alps were pretty nearly glacier-free at that time, disproving accepted theories that they only began retreating after the end of the little ice age in the mid-19th century. As he concluded, the region had once been much warmer than today, with “a wild landscape and wide flowing river.”
Dr. Schlüchter’s report might have been more conveniently dismissed by the entrenched global warming establishment were it not for his distinguished reputation as a giant in the field of geology and paleoclimatology who has authored/coauthored more than 250 papers and is a professor emeritus at the University of Bern in Switzerland.
Then he made himself even more unpopular thanks to a recent interview titled “Our Society is Fundamentally Dishonest” which appeared in the Swiss publication Der Bund where he criticized the U.N.-dominated institutional climate science hierarchy for extreme tunnel vision and political contamination.
Following the ancient forest evidence discovery Schlüchter became a target of scorn. As he observes in the interview, “I wasn’t supposed to find that chunk of wood because I didn’t belong to the close-knit circle of Holocene and climate researchers. My findings thus caught many experts off guard: Now an ‘amateur’ had found something that the [more recent time-focused] Holocene and climate experts should have found.”
Other evidence exists that there is really nothing new about dramatic glacier advances and retreats. In fact the Alps were nearly glacier-free again about 2,000 years ago. Schlüchter points out that “the forest line was much higher than it is today; there were hardly any glaciers. Nowhere in the detailed travel accounts from Roman times are glaciers mentioned.”
Schlüchter criticizes his critics for focusing on a time period which is “indeed too short.” His studies and analyses of a Rhone glacier area reveal that “the rock surface had [previously] been ice-free 5,800 of the last 10,000 years.”
More here: http://www.newsmax.com/LarryBell/warming-global-climate/2014/06/17/id/577481/#ixzz355f6L5y2
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On Pierre Gosselin’s “No Tricks Zone” we have this:
Distinct solar imprint on climate
What’s more worrisome, Schlüchter’s findings show that cold periods can strike very rapidly. Near the edge of Mont Miné Glacier his team found huge tree trunks and discovered that they all had died in just a single year. The scientists were stunned.
The year of death could be determined to be exactly 8195 years before present. The oxygen isotopes in the Greenland ice show there was a marked cooling around 8200.”
That finding, Schlüchter states, confirmed that the sun is the main driver in climate change.
Today’s “rapid” changes are nothing new
In the interview he casts doubt on the UN projection that the Alps will be almost glacier-free by 2100, reminding us that “the system is extremely dynamic and doesn’t function linearly” and that “extreme, sudden changes have clearly been seen in the past“. History’s record is unequivocal on this.
Schlüchter also doesn’t view today’s climate warming as anything unusual, and poses a number of unanswered questions:
Why did the glaciers retreat in the middle of the 19th century, although the large CO2 increase in the atmosphere came later? Why did the earth ‘tip’ in such a short time into a warming phase? Why did glaciers again advance in 1880s, 1920s and 1980s? […] Sooner or later climate science will have to answer the question why the retreat of the glacier at the end of the Little Ice Age around 1850 was so rapid.”
On science: “Our society is fundamentally dishonest”
CO2 fails to answer many open questions. Already we get the sense that hockey stick climate claims are turning out to be rather sorrowful and unimaginative wives’ tales. He summarizes on the refusal to acknowledge the reality of our past: “Our society in fundamentally dishonest“.
– See more at: http://notrickszone.com/2014/06/09/giant-of-geologyglaciology-christian-schluechter-refutes-co2-feature-interview-throws-climate-science-into-disarray/#sthash.z6pKzqtQ.dpuf
sturgishooper says:
August 8, 2014 at 11:41 am
5900 years ago???
Thank you.
..
You just gave MORE evidence that the MWP and Roman warming were NOT warmer than today.
PS….Here are some “3000 year” studies
..
http://www.geog.uvic.ca/dept/uvtrl/2000-02.pdf
http://alaskaresearch.voices.wooster.edu/files/2010/07/AppletonIS.pdf
H Grouse says:
Udar says:
August 8, 2014 at 10:22 am
What does it matter?
It matters a lot. If the glaciers in GNP are 3000 years old, why didn’t them melt away during the MWP and Roman times which are thought to be “warmer” than today?
You, sir, should quote me in full. Here is what I have said:
What does it matter? It was, by your methodology, warmer 3000 years ago than today. So, how is current temperature being unprecedented?
I don’t care which particular time period was warmer than today. I care that it was warmer than today in recent history, and it did not created catastrophe. That kills concept of CAGW dead. The rest is details that some obscure scientists can argue about for al eternity.
Oldseadog says:
August 8, 2014 at 2:38 am
If Michael Mann had found the bits of wood he would have hidden them or turned them into hockey sticks and pucks.
——————————————————–
Careful, Oldseadog, the Mann is known to sue.
Udar says:
August 8, 2014 at 11:50 am
That kills concept of CAGW dead.
Not really, because ****IF**** the current warming is being caused by CO2, then the fact we are at unprecedented (i.e. 800,000 years) levels of CO2 is significant.
This is nothing new.
Prof. Dr. Patzelt
http://youtu.be/glplSyZM7uE
H Grouse:
re your post at August 8, 2014 at 11:58 am.
The year 1942 AD was much more recent than “800,000 years” ago.
Just thought you should know.
Richard
H Grouse says:
August 8, 2014 at 11:49 am
The fact that glaciers haven’t melted in the Park for 6000 years or more shows there is nothing unusual about their advance and retreat. At present, they are growing again. Their record extent came during the LIA, so retreat after that exceptionally cold period is to be expected.
Different glaciers in Banff and GNP will of course show different patterns.
Do you even read what you link?
As you’ve already been instructed, Glacier Bay NP is in Alaska, not Montana. And here is the history it gives for glaciers there:
“The glacial history of Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve is complex and
based on a combination of factors including the tidewater glacier cycle and the overall
climate of the region (Barclay et al., 2009). During a previous retreat the glaciers
retreated to approximately their modern positions (Mann and Hamilton, 1995).
Approximately 12,500 cal yr BP marks the period post glaciation when vegetation
began to enter the Bay following the retreat of the ice. The expansion and diversification
of flora in the area continued until 10,800 cal yr BP to 9,800 cal yr BP when a shift is
thought to correlate with the Younger Dryas period in Europe and caused the vegetation
in the Bay to change (Mann and Hamilton, 1995). Present trees, Sitka Spruce, Western
Hemlock, Mountain Hemlock, and cedar are an analog for those that entered into the Bay
after 10,000 cal yr BP. The trees move into the area in the previously stated order with
the western red cedar as one of the last tree varieties to travel north, not arriving until the
middle Holocene (Mann and Hamilton, 1995). The migration of the species completed in
4,000 cal yr BP (Mann and Hamilton, 1995). However, progress made by the tree taxa in
their migration north during this 6,000 year period would be greatly undone by the harsh
climate of the Little Ice Age, which was too extreme for trees and other vegetation to
survive (Mann and Hamilton, 1995).
Pollen records used to reconstruct paleoclimate suggest a warm period between
9,000-6,000 cal yr BP, called the Hypsithermal (Mann and Hamilton, 1995). By 9,000 cal
yr BP, sea level had reached its present height in most of southeast Alaska not
experiencing uplift of subsidence (Mann and Hamilton, 1995). During the Neoglacial
period the glaciers in the West Arm began to advance in a slow process broken up by
stand stills and minor retreats (Mann and Hamilton, 1995). This advance began with the
advance to the mouth of Reid Inlet, 5,750 cal yr BP, and Johns Hopkins Inlet, 5,430 cal
yr BP (Connor et al., 2009). Between 5,220 and 4,790 cal yr BP gravel outwash sediment
buried trees along Whidbey Passage, Francis Island and Sturgess Island respectively
(Connor et al., 2009). Shallow marine sediment with a lack of dropstones present at
Kidney Island and in Berg Bay, 4,560 and 4,290 cal yr BP respectively, gives evidence of
an outwash plain in front of the glacial advance. Willowby Island outwash buried in situ
stumps that were radiocarbon dated to between 3,710 and 3,420 cal yr BP marking the
advance that far down the Bay (Connor et al., 2009). Geikie Inlet shows an advance at
approximately 3,000 cal yr BP based on radiocarbon dating of a tree-ring series (Wiles et
al., 2011). A wetter and cooler climate trend followed this trend appearing in the pollen
records after 3,300 cal yr BP (Mann and Hamilton, 1995). The glaciers of the eastern
arm of Glacier Bay joined with the glaciers of the western arm of the inlet around 2,700
cal yr BP.
Un-rooted wood found in a glacial outwash till in Berg Bay radiocarbon dated to
between 2,520 and 2,270 cal yr BP suggesting the forefield of the western arm extended
well to the south of this location. Many glacial lake silts dating to 2,660 cal yr BP are
found throughout the east arm showing the presence of Glacial Lake Muir (Figure 8).
This indicates that the ice of the west arm had advanced far enough to dam the east arm
and cause the lake to form (Connor et al., 2009; Goodwin, 1988).
Trees in mid-Wachusett Inlet were killed by the advance of Carroll Glacier in
2,560 cal yr BP. A vegetated outwash located at the mid-point of Muir Glaciers upper
fjord dates to 2,790 cal yr BP. This matches the tree-ring and radiocarbon dating of the
Muir Inlet advance dating between 2,310 and 2,750 cal yr BP (Aughenbaugh, 2010). At
some point after 2,520 cal yr BP the west arm ice retreated behind the east arm causing
the release of Glacial Lake Muir.
A retreat occurred at this time. The ice advanced again to the mouth of the East
arm by 1,860 cal yr BP and lasted until 1,220 cal yr BP forming Glacial Lake Adams
(Figure 8). The forefield edge of the glacial outwash was located at Berg Bay in 1,780 cal
yr BP. 900 cal yr BP saw the ice come to a standstill, or in some cases a minor retreat. In
850 cal yr BP, the ice of the west arm retreated, releasing Glacial Lake Adams and
allowed for the growth of vegetation to be reestablished in the lower Bay area. After 850
cal yr BP the glaciers resumed their advance (Mann and Hamilton, 1995). By 420 cal yr
BP, the ice front was located north of Beardslee Island at Kidney Island. The ice
continued to advance until it reached Bartlett Cove between 280-170 cal yr BP (1750
AD) (Connor et al., 2009).
After 280 to 170 cal yr BP the glacier began its rapid and catastrophic retreat.
Several reasons for this rapid retreat have been proposed by the scientists that study
Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve and the surrounding area (Figure 9). One
hypothesis formed is that the ablation is based on warmer climate and aggravated by ice
calving into the waters of the fjord (Mann and Hamilton, 1995).”
The retreat turned out not to be so “catastrophic”. Glaciers there advanced in the 21st century:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nps.gov%2Fglba%2Fnaturescience%2Fupload%2FOverview%2520of%2520Glacier%2520Bay%2520Glaciers2.pdf&ei=GB7lU4bpM834oASX6oDQBA&usg=AFQjCNGBJcV_GZr8gooyH4JZmuJIRNFW0g&sig2=Rj-Pshj1WO5Z06PftuJk2w&bvm=bv.72676100,d.cGU
H Grouse says:
August 8, 2014 at 11:58 am
Earth is currently cooling. There is zero evidence to support the conjecture that whatever warming might have occurred between c. 1977 and 1996 was primarily (or at all) “caused” by CO2, and all the evidence in the world is against that unfounded assertion.
Proctor says
“Until we can show that CO2 is NOT causing the temp rise, the argument from history has no relevance in the Climate Wars.”
17 years 10 months no warming. 17 years 10 months accelerating CO2 rise.
DONE!
H Grouse says:
August 8, 2014 at 11:58 am
Udar says:
August 8, 2014 at 11:50 am
That kills concept of CAGW dead.
Not really, because ****IF**** the current warming is being caused by CO2, then the fact we are at unprecedented (i.e. 800,000 years) levels of CO2 is significant.
You continue to quote out of context and misdirect. I am sure it’s on purpose.
All that regular people, politicians, and everyone who is not a climate scientists, care about is whether global warming is catastrophic or not. They don’t care if it AGW or N(atural)GW or any other GW or C(limate)C(hange), as long as it’s not C(atastrophic)GW.
The fact that temperatures that were significantly higher than today did not destroy life as we know it is all that we care about.
H Grouse says
“No, the correct term is “hypothesis””
No the correct term is “Debunked hypothesis”
richardscourtney says:
August 8, 2014 at 12:02 pm
1942 AD
…
You should see what the readings are today if you take them today FROM THE SAME locations.
Paris has well over 900 ppm !!!
Bob Boder says:
August 8, 2014 at 12:07 pm
…
“17 years 10 months no warming.”
…
Yes, and during those 17 years and 10 months we’ve had about 50 mm of sea level rise.
H. Grouse: “Not really, because ****IF**** the current warming is being caused by CO2, then the fact we are at unprecedented (i.e. 800,000 years) levels of CO2 is significant.”
If the current warming is caused by pinto-bean consumption, then the fact that we are at unprecedented (i.e., 4,500,000,000-year) levels of pinto-bean consumption is significant.
H Grouse says:
August 8, 2014 at 12:21 pm
Yes, and during those 17 years and 10 months we’ve had about 50 mm of sea level rise.
—-
Which is less than the previous 20 years.
H Grouse says:
August 8, 2014 at 9:43 am
No, the correct term is “hypothesis”
—
Don’t theories have to get at least an occasional prediction correct?
MarkW says:
August 8, 2014 at 12:23 pm
Which is less than the previous 20 years.
Doesn’t matter if it is less. That wonderful “thermal expansion” and “melting ice” problem still exists for all the folks saying “no warming”
lemiere jacques says:
August 8, 2014 at 10:36 am
—-
Would you mind repeating that? In English this time.
H Grouse says:
August 8, 2014 at 12:28 pm
—–
You really aren’t any good at this science thing.
Thermal equilibrium is not achieved over night.
MarkW says:
August 8, 2014 at 12:25 pm
.
at least an occasional prediction correct?
This one worked out fine
..
http://www.carbonbrief.org/media/82629/nsidc_sept_sea_ice.png
H Grouse says:
August 8, 2014 at 10:37 am
—–
Sturgis says almost ice free.
You proclaim that if it was warmer they must have ice free.
I guess this is just one of those words, whose meaning doesn’t matter to you.
MarkW,
H Grouse has no understanding of the lag time between warming and thermal expansion. He has argued incessantly that thermal expansion happens instantaneously. He even posted a link that explained that there is such a lag time. Didn’t matter. ‘H Grouse’ argues incessantly for the sake of argument. He is incapable of learning anything.
H Grouse says:
August 8, 2014 at 12:28 pm
Sea level has been increasing since the Little Ice Age. Humans have nothing to do with it. Ice expanded during the LIA. Since its trough in the late 17th century, ice has been on balance waning, but also waxing. Same as for the past four billion years.
Its warmer now than 300 years, but cooler than 1000, 2000, 3000 and 5000 years ago, indeed cooler than about 2/3 of the Holocene, which has been a cooler interglacial than the Eemian and MIS 11, among recent ones. Ice has been in a downward trend on earth since the Last Glacial Maximum about 20,000 years ago, at various paces of retreat.
There is no evidence that humans have anything to do with warming observed since the depths of the LIA during the 1690s.
H Grouse says:
August 8, 2014 at 12:33 pm
—–
Notice how the troll left the last 3 years of data out of his cherry picked chart.
Mike M said: http://woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3vgl/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:1910/to:1945/trend/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:1965/to:2000/trend
John Finn says: August 8, 2014 at 10:10 am What are the calculated trends.? Also the more recent period you chose includes a decade when temperatures were flat or cooling (i.e. 1965-75). The 1975-2010 trend shows more warming. (0.18 degrees per decade)
Yes, your later period was steeper, I must have missed it. The worst case I could find was about a difference in warming rate of about 0.3 degrees per century so if we double CO2 and CO2 is that influential we might make it back to MWP warmth in another 300 or 400 years. Is that a good reason to stop me from buying 100W light bulbs or doubling my electric bills? Is it worth putting coal miners out of work?