By Larry Bell
Dr. Christian Schlüchter’s discovery of 4,000-year-old chunks of wood at the leading edge of a Swiss glacier was clearly not cheered by many members of the global warming doom-and-gloom science orthodoxy.
This finding indicated that the Alps were pretty nearly glacier-free at that time, disproving accepted theories that they only began retreating after the end of the little ice age in the mid-19th century. As he concluded, the region had once been much warmer than today, with “a wild landscape and wide flowing river.”
Dr. Schlüchter’s report might have been more conveniently dismissed by the entrenched global warming establishment were it not for his distinguished reputation as a giant in the field of geology and paleoclimatology who has authored/coauthored more than 250 papers and is a professor emeritus at the University of Bern in Switzerland.
Then he made himself even more unpopular thanks to a recent interview titled “Our Society is Fundamentally Dishonest” which appeared in the Swiss publication Der Bund where he criticized the U.N.-dominated institutional climate science hierarchy for extreme tunnel vision and political contamination.
Following the ancient forest evidence discovery Schlüchter became a target of scorn. As he observes in the interview, “I wasn’t supposed to find that chunk of wood because I didn’t belong to the close-knit circle of Holocene and climate researchers. My findings thus caught many experts off guard: Now an ‘amateur’ had found something that the [more recent time-focused] Holocene and climate experts should have found.”
Other evidence exists that there is really nothing new about dramatic glacier advances and retreats. In fact the Alps were nearly glacier-free again about 2,000 years ago. Schlüchter points out that “the forest line was much higher than it is today; there were hardly any glaciers. Nowhere in the detailed travel accounts from Roman times are glaciers mentioned.”
Schlüchter criticizes his critics for focusing on a time period which is “indeed too short.” His studies and analyses of a Rhone glacier area reveal that “the rock surface had [previously] been ice-free 5,800 of the last 10,000 years.”
More here: http://www.newsmax.com/LarryBell/warming-global-climate/2014/06/17/id/577481/#ixzz355f6L5y2
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On Pierre Gosselin’s “No Tricks Zone” we have this:
Distinct solar imprint on climate
What’s more worrisome, Schlüchter’s findings show that cold periods can strike very rapidly. Near the edge of Mont Miné Glacier his team found huge tree trunks and discovered that they all had died in just a single year. The scientists were stunned.
The year of death could be determined to be exactly 8195 years before present. The oxygen isotopes in the Greenland ice show there was a marked cooling around 8200.”
That finding, Schlüchter states, confirmed that the sun is the main driver in climate change.
Today’s “rapid” changes are nothing new
In the interview he casts doubt on the UN projection that the Alps will be almost glacier-free by 2100, reminding us that “the system is extremely dynamic and doesn’t function linearly” and that “extreme, sudden changes have clearly been seen in the past“. History’s record is unequivocal on this.
Schlüchter also doesn’t view today’s climate warming as anything unusual, and poses a number of unanswered questions:
Why did the glaciers retreat in the middle of the 19th century, although the large CO2 increase in the atmosphere came later? Why did the earth ‘tip’ in such a short time into a warming phase? Why did glaciers again advance in 1880s, 1920s and 1980s? […] Sooner or later climate science will have to answer the question why the retreat of the glacier at the end of the Little Ice Age around 1850 was so rapid.”
On science: “Our society is fundamentally dishonest”
CO2 fails to answer many open questions. Already we get the sense that hockey stick climate claims are turning out to be rather sorrowful and unimaginative wives’ tales. He summarizes on the refusal to acknowledge the reality of our past: “Our society in fundamentally dishonest“.
– See more at: http://notrickszone.com/2014/06/09/giant-of-geologyglaciology-christian-schluechter-refutes-co2-feature-interview-throws-climate-science-into-disarray/#sthash.z6pKzqtQ.dpuf
Joe Born says: August 8, 2014 at 5:39 am
Not that it’s important, but would by any chance be able to cite an example by book and chapter?
For example, in book 6 chapters 25 to 28 Ceasar describes the “Hercynian forest” and some of the “wild beasts” which have not been seen in other parts. The “Black forest” formed the western side of the Hercyinian forest.
“extreme, sudden changes have clearly been seen in the past“. History’s record is unequivocal on this.” From the mouths of Siberian mammoths to God’s ears.
Last year, the Daily Mail carried an article regarding an archaelogical find in Norway. Some article of clothing (and possibly huiman remains) was found as one of the glaciers had retreated.
The clothing was carbon dated and found to be about 2000 years old. The conclusion was that the glacier was less extensive some 2000 years ago, and it is only now as the glacier is retreating that evidence of settlements sitting on the edge of this glcaier ar being revealed.
Of course, we also know that similar finds (but dating to the MWP) are being made in Greenland as the glacier there retreats,
It is clear that in the Northern Hemisphere that there have been many warmer periods in Northern Europe (Minoan, Roman, MWP) than the temperatures that we see today.
The position with respect to the Southern Hemisphere is less certain since it is more oceanic and civilisation was less advanced so there is less evidence of archaelogical finds pertaining to human settlements.
CO2 (if constant at pre industrial level) cannot explain any of this.
That a tree, or even several trees, would die within one year leads me to NOT consider it to be caused by a change in the Sun. A sudden cooling within such a short period of time is catastrophic. There are several other events to consider. A tsunami during a swing into a colder weather pattern, a nearby large volcanic event obscuring the Sun, a change to polar vortex loops extending South, a significant drop in solar recharge in the equatorial ocean band due to a catastrophically large equatorial volcanic event, etc…
Like the AGW scientists, solar proponents make sudden unjustifiable leaps into the cause.
Leonard Weinstein says: August 8, 2014 at 5:44 am
“Nick, either CO2 is the control knob for warming or it is not.”
That’s meaningless. The AGW theory is that adding CO2 will make it warmer. It does not say that warming could not be caused by something else.
“the so called main stream conclusions still say that only human activity could be the cause for the present warming”
Yes, that is based on the rapid rise consistent with AGW, and with no alternative explanation from present data. But it is not the proof of AGW, which is based on radiative physics.
Nick Stokes says:
August 8, 2014 at 5:22 am
That doesn’t mean burning FF won’t make the climate warmer.
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You will let us know when it starts, right?
I am waiting for some climate scientist to publish a paper on what the optimum climate is for our biosphere. The first question that would naturally flow would be where is our current trend in relation to this finding.
That nobody seems interested in this vital comparison indicates that the climate is being studied for other purposes. Since all the urgent demands that flow from today’s climate science all converge on policy solutions that involve statism, bigger government, higher taxes, less personal liberty, the bigger picture tells me all that I need to know about “climate science”. It is socialism and Gaia worship by other means.
Nick Stokes says: August 8, 2014 at 5:48 am “Radiative physics says that the extra CO2 will impede outgoing IR and cause warming. “
Physics says that wood floats and ducks are like wood so if she’s lighter than duck she’s a witch!
Apparently simpleton applications of physics are unable to explain why natural climate forcings appear to to be MUCH stronger than any role CO2 can play. We are at ~400 ppm and still going up but warming stopped over 15 years ago. Why?
Don B says:
August 8, 2014 at 5:27 am
http://www.livescience.com/39819-ancient-forest-thaws.html
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Don, thanks for that….it was funny
First they say an Alaskan glacier is retreating….and they are finding old big trees under it
…then they say they are worried about sea levels rising because of it
Then they say a neighboring glacier…right next door….is advancing and burying trees at the same time
Nick Stokes says:
No, there is no such evidence. There has been nothing to change the amount of carbon in the environment in the last millions of years. Recently we have dug up 400 Gtons and burnt it. Radiative physics says that the extra CO2 will impede outgoing IR and cause warming. And indeed it has warmed. And we’re on track to burn a lot more C.
Reply:
Sorry Nick, got to call you on that – how many gigatons of carbon were sequestered when glaciers buried ancient vegetation? And how many were removed from the atmosphere when the glaciers retreated and vegetation returned? And how many were recreated when animal life returned to breathe all that released oxygen, basking in the new warmth? I don’t have the skill to calculate it, but it’s just nonsense to say there are no drivers of carbon shifts since hydrocarbon storage millions of years ago.
Nick Stokes says: August 8, 2014 at 6:01 am “… with no alternative explanation..”
Yes there is! It’s called NATURE! It’s been going on for a long time. If human CO2 from FF has any affect on earth’s temperature you have miserably failed to prove that it is even measurable.
Why was the warming greater from 1910 to 1945 than it was from 1965 to 2000 when there was less CO2 in the earlier 35 year period? Do your precious computer models replicate that fact? Don’t think so. The central England temperature record shows that there is NOTHING “unprecedented” about the rate of warming and cooling cycles today – it’s just natural climate change. Accept it, we are NOT in control of the climate and there is nothing anyone can ‘do’ about it … other than pray that we do not enter another ice age.
t brandt says: August 8, 2014 at 4:27 am
“Julius Caesar, in his “De Bello Gallico,” took great pains to describe in detail the flora, fauna and geographic encountered in his military campaign north of the Italian peninsula. He never mentioned glaciers- which surely would have been noteworthy features.”
Here is a map of his campaigns, from this site. He crossed into Gaul via the coast. There is no reason to think that he came near any modern glacier sites.
Yes, but THIS time is different, because WE’RE doing it. Because shut up.
buckwheaton says: August 8, 2014 at 6:02 am “I am waiting for some climate scientist to publish a paper on what the optimum climate is for our biosphere. “
We’ll all have to remember to check in on you once in a while.
Taylor says: August 8, 2014 at 6:15 am
” Sorry Nick, got to call you on that – how many gigatons of carbon were sequestered when glaciers buried ancient vegetation? And how many were removed from the atmosphere when the glaciers retreated and vegetation returned? And how many were recreated when animal life returned to breathe all that released oxygen, basking in the new warmth?”
Well, we know that CO2 dropped (and then rose) by about 100 ppmv during the ice age. That’s about 220 Gtons C. And the temperature changed by about 6-8 °C, even though CO2 change was less than recent. CO2 may have had an effect, but it can’t have been the main cause.
rgbatduke says:
August 8, 2014 at 5:24 am
“I think that the issue here isn’t that the facts here aren’t known, but the way they are treated. One can find literally hundreds of places where climate scientists who — given inconvenient facts like these — should know better assert that the modern warm period is the warmest in the entire Holocene”.
Well said!
I would hope that Nick Stokes et. al. would come out and correct all those who have spread the misinformation, since they knew this all along. Why have they been silent?
It is time to set the record straight and admit that the Mann Hockey stick is wrong and stop the defense of the apparent errors and let the Administration be so informed.
Nick Stokes says:
August 8, 2014 at 6:01 am
Leonard Weinstein says: August 8, 2014 at 5:44 am
“Nick, either CO2 is the control knob for warming or it is not.”
“That’s meaningless. The AGW theory is that adding CO2 will make it warmer. It does not say that warming could not be caused by something else” <—–
The ENTIRE IPCC remit is that CO2 causes global warming.
This is such a ridiculous statement its insane.
We are taxed based on CO2 already in the UK.
Right nick…
Nick Stokes says:
“Well, we know that CO2 dropped (and then rose) by about 100 ppmv during the ice age. That’s about 220 Gtons C. And the temperature changed by about 6-8 °C, even though CO2 change was less than recent. CO2 may have had an effect, but it can’t have been the main cause ”
If CO2 WASN’T the cause of the ice age. What was ?
Were currently being taxed on the premise that CO2 IS the cause of warmer temperatures and controls the climate……
If your now admitting it doesn’t. Would you be so kind as to tell the UK Government to remove its carbon taxes.
On science: “Our society is fundamentally dishonest”
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Now that is a statement that is truly unequivocal, to borrow from one of the earlier buzz words often used in the “literature” of so-called “climate science.”
Further to my comment (richard verney August 8, 2014 at 5:58 am), the facts regarding the find were not quite accurate. The article of clothing was dated to about 300AD (so a little after the Roman Warm Period, alternatively showing that perhaps that period extended a little longer at least in the very north of Europe).
Apparently there have been about 600 finds from various places in Norway, as glaciers have retreated. See http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/22/pre-viking-tunic-found-glacier-climate-change_n_2932431.html
It is clear from all these finds that there were period when it was considerbly warmer in Norway some 1700 to 3400 years ago than it is today. The point is that if CO2 levels remained constant at about 280ppm as the warmists claim, then CO2 cannot explain those warming trends. There is nothing at all unusual or unprecedented about today’s climate.
Nick Stokes says:August 8, 2014 at 5:34 am
rgbatduke says: August 8, 2014 at 5:24 am
“One can find literally hundreds of places where climate scientists who — given inconvenient facts like these — should know better assert that the modern warm period is the warmest in the entire Holocene.”
Examples?
Steve Keohane says: August 8, 2014 at 5:16 am
Nicely defined in Alley’s reconstruction of the Holocene.
http://i49.tinypic.com/oji4b7.jpg
They are in a directory marked “censored”.
But now to be serious. Nick Stokes, do you not agree that
reports of glaciers shrinking get way more press and even
attention in abstracts of papers and are sold as evidence of
CAGW while news of this sort gets less press and attention?
Didn’t Marcott (at a reviewer’s insistence) tack on the temperature
record at the end of his proxy study (or am I thinking of the wrong paper?)
and didn’t his abstract and the press it got (both university press release and
news media) suggest more that it was much warmer now? Didn’t he have to
belatedly say that the modern part was not robust? I rarely see the evidence
for the MWP and RWP being warner being hyped in abstracts, press releases,
and statements to and by the media whereas the hype in the other direction
is continuous and nauseatingly, mind-numbingly stupid.
Robert of Ottawa – That is my favorite too. It’s only regional.
But then most of the evidence for increased temperatures and
melting ice is northern hemisphere today as well. Polar amplification
and all that. The clearest evidence today is also regional and coincidentally in the
same places that were warm 1,000 and 2,000 years ago.
It wasn’t.
They do actually – by using the obsolete TSI reconstructions that many readers of this blog like to use. According to theses reconstructions (e.g. Lean et al) there was a strong increase in solar activity up until ~1960.
JustAnotherPoster says: August 8, 2014 at 6:28 am
“The ENTIRE IPCC remit is that CO2 causes global warming.”
Yes. And arsenic will kill you. But that doesn’t mean that by avoiding arsenic, you are immortal.