The law of unintended consequences in action: Imagine replacing all CO2 emissions with H2O emissions

electrolysis catalyst
Image: Tewodros Asefa A new technology based on carbon nanotubes promises commercially viable hydrogen production from water.

This story, while technically correct, made me chuckle, especially in light of a tweet today by Mashable warmist Andrew Freidman, who was complaining about heat and humidity in NYC. Just think about what it would be like if all those taxis and private vehicles were emitting H2O (as water vapor). – more below.

Rutgers Chemists Develop Technology to Produce Clean-Burning Hydrogen Fuel

New catalyst based on carbon nanotubes may rival cost-prohibitive platinum for reactions that split water into hydrogen and oxygen

NEW BRUNSWICK – Rutgers researchers have developed a technology that could overcome a major cost barrier to make clean-burning hydrogen fuel – a fuel that could replace expensive and environmentally harmful fossil fuels.

The new technology is a novel catalyst that performs almost as well as cost-prohibitive platinum for so-called electrolysis reactions, which use electric currents to split water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen. The Rutgers technology is also far more efficient than less-expensive catalysts investigated to-date.

“Hydrogen has long been expected to play a vital role in our future energy landscapes by mitigating, if not completely eliminating, our reliance on fossil fuels,” said Tewodros (Teddy) Asefa, associate professor of chemistry and chemical biology in the School of Arts and Sciences. “We have developed a sustainable chemical catalyst that, we hope with the right industry partner, can bring this vision to life.”

Asefa is also an associate professor of chemical and biochemical engineering in the School of Engineering.

He and his colleagues based their new catalyst on carbon nanotubes – one-atom-thick sheets of carbon rolled into tubes 10,000 times thinner than a human hair.

Finding ways to make electrolysis reactions commercially viable is important because processes that make hydrogen today start with methane – itself a fossil fuel. The need to consume fossil fuel therefore negates current claims that hydrogen is a “green” fuel.

Electrolysis, however, could produce hydrogen using electricity generated by renewable sources, such as solar, wind and hydro energy, or by carbon-neutral sources, such as nuclear energy. And even if fossil fuels were used for electrolysis, the higher efficiency and better emissions controls of large power plants could give hydrogen fuel cells an advantage over less efficient and more polluting gasoline and diesel engines in millions of vehicles and other applications.

In a recent scientific paper published in Angewandte Chemie International Edition, Asefa and his colleagues reported that their technology, called “noble metal-free nitrogen-rich carbon nanotubes,” efficiently catalyze the hydrogen evolution reaction with activities close to that of platinum. They also function well in acidic, neutral or basic conditions, allowing them to be coupled with the best available oxygen-evolving catalysts that also play crucial roles in the water-splitting reaction.

The researchers have filed for a patent on the catalyst, which is available for licensing or research collaborations through the Rutgers Office of Technology Commercialization. The National Science Foundation funded the research.

Asefa, an expert in inorganic and materials chemistry, joined the Rutgers faculty in 2009 after four years as an assistant professor at Syracuse University. Originally from Ethiopia, he is a resident of Montgomery Township, N.J. In addition to catalysis and nanocatalysis, his research interests include novel inorganic nanomaterials and nanomaterials for biological, medical biosensing and solar cell applications.

==============================================================

The process described above is certainly better and less energy intensive than steam methane reforming (STR) which produces over 100 million tons of hydrogen worldwide every year.

I wrote a paper in college on the topic of replacing gasoline with hydrogen – it seemed a sensible idea then. Now, not so much.

For those that don’t know or don’t recall, the chemical reaction for combusting hydrogen is:

combusting_h2

The result of the reaction is water and heat released from combustion, the H2O, unless condensed and trapped, will exit as water vapor into the atmosphere.

When ranked by their direct contribution to the greenhouse effect, the most important greenhouse gas compounds are:

Compound Formula Contribution

(%)

Water vapor and clouds H

2O

36 – 72%
Carbon dioxide CO

2

9 – 26%
Methane CH

4

4–9%
Ozone O

3

3–7%
Source: Kiehl, J.T.; Kevin E. Trenberth (1997). “Earth’s annual global mean energy budget” (PDF). Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society 78 (2): 197–208.  doi:10.1175/1520-0477(1997)078<0197:EAGMEB>2.0.CO;2

The contribution of water vapor ranges far higher than that of CO2.

Imagine in a hyrdogen powered economy, millions of vehicles emitting water vapor from tailpipes instead of CO2.

H2-exhaust

The panic over temperature from water vapor emissions, which can be double to triple the heat trapping capacity of Carbon Dioxide, would be quite something to watch.

On the plus side trapping H2O is a lot easier than trapping CO2, though in automobiles, would require carrying around all that waste water of combustion, and dumping it when you fuel up, something I have yet to see dealt with in the various Hydrogen powered combustion engines I’ve looked at. Fuel cell systems do better, since they don’t produce much in the way of water vapor, but water is dumped onto the road just the same, where it will evaporate.

Note that this fueling station recently in the news has no provision for waste-water capture:

Linde starts production line for fuel-cell car filling stations

(Reuters) – German industrial gases maker Linde opened what it said was the world’s first production line for hydrogen fueling stations on Monday, in a bid to boost support networks for eco-friendly cars.

Fuel-cell cars, which compete with electric and hybrid vehicles in a race to capture environmentally conscious drivers, use a stack of cells that combine hydrogen with oxygen in the air to generate electricity.

Their only emissions are water vapour and heat, but the technology has been held back by high costs and lack of infrastructure. Fuel-cell cars will go on sale starting at $70,000, and filling stations cost over $1 million to build.

On the back of commercial launch announcements by Toyota and Hyundai and demand in Japan, Linde started up a production facility with an initial annual capacity of 50 stations a year. Until now, it has built them one by one.

The company announced an order for 28 stations from Japanese gas trading company Iwatani, which put the first of its Linde stations into operation near Osaka on Monday, the first commercial hydrogen fueling station in Japan.

We live in interesting times.

From Wikipedia, the criticism of hydrogen powered cars is broad:

In 2008, Wired News reported that “experts say it will be 40 years or more before hydrogen has any meaningful impact on gasoline consumption or global warming, and we can’t afford to wait that long. In the meantime, fuel cells are diverting resources from more immediate solutions.”[82] The Economist magazine, in 2008, quoted Robert Zubrin, the author of Energy Victory, as saying: “Hydrogen is ‘just about the worst possible vehicle fuel'”.[83] The magazine noted that most hydrogen is produced through steam reformation, which creates at least as much emission of carbon per mile as some of today’s gasoline cars. On the other hand, if the hydrogen could be produced using renewable energy, “it would surely be easier simply to use this energy to charge the batteries of all-electric or plug-in hybrid vehicles.”[83] The Los Angeles Times wrote in 2009, “Any way you look at it, hydrogen is a lousy way to move cars.”[84] The Washington Post asked in November 2009, “[W]hy would you want to store energy in the form of hydrogen and then use that hydrogen to produce electricity for a motor, when electrical energy is already waiting to be sucked out of sockets all over America and stored in auto batteries…?”[85]

The Motley Fool stated in 2013 that “there are still cost-prohibitive obstacles [for hydrogen cars] relating to transportation, storage, and, most importantly, production.”[86] The New York Times noted that there are only 10 publicly accessible hydrogen filling stations in the U.S.[59] Volkswagen’s Rudolf Krebs said in 2013 that “no matter how excellent you make the cars themselves, the laws of physics hinder their overall efficiency. The most efficient way to convert energy to mobility is electricity.” He elaborated: “Hydrogen mobility only makes sense if you use green energy”, but … you need to convert it first into hydrogen “with low efficiencies” where “you lose about 40 percent of the initial energy”. You then must compress the hydrogen and store it under high pressure in tanks, which uses more energy. “And then you have to convert the hydrogen back to electricity in a fuel cell with another efficiency loss”. Krebs continued: “in the end, from your original 100 percent of electric energy, you end up with 30 to 40 percent.”[87] Cox wrote in 2014 that producing hydrogen “is significantly more carbon intensive per unit of energy than coal. Mistaking fossil hydrogen from the hydraulic fracturing of shales for an environmentally sustainable energy pathway threatens to encourage energy policies that will dilute and potentially derail global efforts to head-off climate change due to the risk of diverting investment and focus from vehicle technologies that are economically compatible with renewable energy.”[6]

The Business Insider commented:

Pure hydrogen can be industrially derived, but it takes energy. If that energy does not come from renewable sources, then fuel-cell cars are not as clean as they seem. … Another challenge is the lack of infrastructure. Gas stations need to invest in the ability to refuel hydrogen tanks before FCEVs become practical, and it’s unlikely many will do that while there are so few customers on the road today. … Compounding the lack of infrastructure is the high cost of the technology. Fuel cells are “still very, very expensive”.

UPDATE: another unintended consequence I had not considered – leakage. Keeping Hydrogen gas from leaking is quite a problem due to the molecular size being the smallest. This comment sums it up:

Les Johnson says:

well, using H2 would solve the global warming issue, just not the way intended.

Replacing all auto fuel, and assuming a 10% leakage at surface, H2 will cause global COOLING, by tripling stratospheric moisture, plus destroy the ozone by hydroxyls chemistry…

This is disputed by Warwick 2004, but I find a 1% loss rate of hydrogen to be extremely low. We have 10% to 20% loss rates, per day, of liquid N2. And liquid H2 has a much lower temperature.

This has references to both papers, page 3.

http://www.atmos-chem-phys-discuss.net/12/19371/2012/acpd-12-19371-2012-print.pdf

http://pr.caltech.edu/media/Press_Releases/PR12405.html

he adds later in a second comment:

This is the Tromp et al 2006 paper that shows that hydrogen leakage woul dbe very detrimental.

http://scholar.google.ca/citations?view_op=view_citation&hl=en&user=ri8A4awAAAAJ&citation_for_view=ri8A4awAAAAJ:pqnbT2bcN3wC

Abstract:

The widespread use of hydrogen fuel cells could have hitherto unknown

environmental impacts due to unintended emissions of molecular hydrogen, including an

increase in the abundance of water vapor in the stratosphere (plausibly by as much as∼ 1

part per million by volume). This would cause stratospheric cooling, enhancement of the

heterogeneous chemistry that destroys ozone, an increase in noctilucent clouds, and

changes in tropospheric chemistry and atmosphere-biosphere interactions.

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Lance
July 14, 2014 3:07 pm

I’m about 97% sure that in cold climates, dropping water onto the frozen pavement might cause a few more accidents too.

inMAGICn
July 14, 2014 3:15 pm

Lance, you beat me to the punch. It’s bad enough considering the upper Midwest in winter having each vehicle dripping water on the roads. Now, add hills: Seattle, Tacoma, Butte, Denver, even San Francisco….well, you get the picture. You wouldn’t need snow or any precipitation, just freezing temperatures. No thank you.

Dr Ken Pollock
July 14, 2014 3:16 pm

The crucial point about using hydrogen is that the whole process cannot break the second law of thermodynamics, namely that you cannot get more energy out than you put in. So you have produced a clean fuel of a certain energy value, but you used fuel of a greater energy value to “create” it, so its only merit is storability and portability, compared to the electricity (cleanly generated) that you used to make it.
And if you can’t store it…

Ben Wilson
July 14, 2014 3:22 pm

Actually, for each gallon of gasoline burned, there is about a gallon of water created.
To put it more specifically — a mole of octane (C18H18) weighs 114 grams. It will produce nine moles of H2O, which has a molecular weight of 162 grams. Therefore — the ratio for mass water produced / mass octane burned == 1.42. A gallon of gasoline weighs about six pounds, and will produce about 8.5 pounds of water — or about 1.06 gallons in its liquid form.

Ben Wilson
July 14, 2014 3:23 pm

Uh, the octane should be C8H18. . . . otherwise I think the figures are correct.

Curious George
July 14, 2014 3:23 pm

Please keep your cool This is merely an outline of a new – potentially industrial – process, which ultimately creates water from water while wasting a lot of energy.
There is a small heat-trapping side effect, because the primary water is liquid and the water created by burning hydrogen is a water vapor, a greenhouse gas. Remember that even in Sahara desert an average humidity of the air is 25% (that means that the air is 25% saturated with water vapor, not that it contains 25% of water vapor; in a laundry room – or in a cloud – the air may be 100% saturated with water vapor). We won’t be adding much to those 25% or more Besides, carbon dioxide absorbs some infrared frequencies that water vapor does not absorb; adding more water to a moist atmosphere which already absorbs all that water can absorb will have a minuscule effect if any, and it does not counter any (extremely rare) valid points about the effects of carbon dioxide. Now I’ll use my organism to convert some Scotch whisky to water vapor.

July 14, 2014 3:24 pm

It always makes me wonder about people who advocate using hydrogen as fuel because it is cleaner that fossil fuels. Do they not understand that the hydrogen is to be made by using electricity? Do they not understand that much of the electricity being used is created by burning fossil fuels? The effect of this technology will be to increase fossil fuel use. Oh Boy!

Dena
July 14, 2014 3:24 pm

Not that the conversion ratios weren’t mentioned? It takes several watts of power to make a watt of hydrogen. This is why we currently produce hydrogen by breaking down natural gas. The other issue is the big problem with fuel cells is they require a membrane between the oxygen and hydrogen side. All is well unless the temperature drops below freezing. Once it does, the ice crystals puncture the membrane damaging the fuel cell. They have many problems to solve before this becomes more than a rich mans toy.

July 14, 2014 3:25 pm

“Expensive and environmentally harmful fossil fuels”? We mine, and refine, fossil fuels because the process yields a positive profit margin from the substantial chemical potential energy in the raw fuel. The profit margin in H is negative. If the article is about government incentives, it ought to say so. And at least in the capitalist world, we clean up our mess from the mining and burning. The headline is about CO2, but it is environmentally beneficial, a greening agent.
The big, bold equation is idealistic. The LHS should be H + Air. Now what’s on the RHS? Either that, or we have another financial burden to extract O2 from the air.
And “heat trapping capacity of Carbon Dioxide”? Heat is energy in transit. It cannot be trapped. If the energy in transit is stopped, it’s no longer heat.
For Barium 2:38 pm: the notion that CO2 is long-lived in the atmosphere is a fiction necessary for the AGW conjecture to work, based three ways on faux physics. (1) The conjecture is that the surface of the ocean is in equilibrium so that the equilibrium carbonate equations apply, creating a bottleneck for CO2 until it is sequestered in deeper layers of the ocean. None of the layers is ever in thermodynamic equilibrium (the only kind of equilibrium of any use in climate). (2) The conjecture is that natural CO2, with over 15 times the flux of anthropogenic CO2, is absorbed as fast as it is emitted, so that the ocean helps the AGW conjecture by penalizing ACO2 but not nCO2. (3) CO2 is absorbed in the ocean according to Henry’s Law, and absorption is dependent mostly on temperature, secondarily on salinity, possibly isotopic weight (TBD), and under the AGW conjecture, water pH (easy to show, but never proved). We don’t have Henry’s coefficients other than in equilibrium, but the absorption is instantaneous on the time scale of climate. IPCC has yet to mention Henry’s Law, and when it popped up in the analysis of the Revelle Factor, IPCC concealed it. The bottleneck is in the ocean surface layer, not the atmosphere.

July 14, 2014 3:26 pm

And what do you get when you burn gasoline?

Nylo
July 14, 2014 3:27 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t the combustion in ordinary fuel cars also produce H2O among the exhaust gases?

peter
July 14, 2014 3:32 pm

But, if you are talking a hundred percent humidity, which is what you are looking at on those really hot humid summer days, wouldn’t any more water vapor simply condense out?
Be great in farm land. The dew point would mean the plants would get a good soaking every night.
Now for the perfect unicorn friendly vehicle you’d want technology so efficient that you could fill a car with water, and it would split it into Hydrogen and Oxygen fast enough to fuel the car on the go.

Transport by Zeppelin
July 14, 2014 3:33 pm

Atmospheric water vapour volume, particularly at high altitudes where the radiative effect is greatest, is not determined by either the rate of evaporation from the surface (land & ocean), or in this case, through emissions by vehicle exhaust. It is determined by precipitation systems.
Vehicles emitting water vapour would make no difference to atmospheric volume or to global temperature.

RHS
July 14, 2014 3:33 pm

Think heat and humidity in the summer is bad, wait until winter when all that water freezes on the streets and highways!

Tim OBrien
July 14, 2014 3:36 pm

OMG, save us from Dihydrogen Monoxide!!!

Nylo
July 14, 2014 3:39 pm

wobble says:
July 14, 2014 at 3:02 pm
1. What does this have to do with the warming effect of output water versus output CO2? Let me ask you a direct question. Would you rather have all CO2 emissions be converted into H2O emissions?
Combustion of ordinary fuel for cars produces CO2 — and — H2O
How much energy is obtained per molecule of H2O emitted, however, is a question for which I don’t have the answer. But it may happen that combustion of H2 is even more H2O efficient.
In any case, it is irrelevant. The ammount of CO2 exiting the exhaust of your car significantly increases the CO2 concentration in the area, whereas the ammount of H2O is irrelevant compared to the H2O that is already there, 25 times greater than CO2 on average.

pat
July 14, 2014 3:40 pm

[snip -off topic]

John M
July 14, 2014 3:58 pm

I concur with Ben Wilson’s calculations.
Here’s some more numbers.
H2 + 1/2 O2 = H20 142 MJ/kg H2*
CH4 + 2 O2 = CO2 + 2 H2O 55.5 MJ/kg CH4*
C8H18 + 12.5 O2 = 8 CO2 + 9 H2O 45.8 MJ/kg C8H18*
Using those values and working through the molar stoichiometry…
Fuel………kg H2O/MJ
H2……………0.063
CH4………….0.041
C8H18……….0.026
*energy content from this website
http://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/eng/ch8en/conc8en/energycontent.html
So H2 worse than fossil fuels in terms of water production per MJ, since the ff also get energy from making CO2.
Of course, fueling up with and hauling around 1 kg of H2 and CH4 for transportation is a bit more challenging than putting 1 kg of gasoline into the tank…

paddylol
July 14, 2014 4:06 pm

Would hydrogen fuel cells in case of a collision turn the car into a modern Hindenburg? How could this be prevented? What would it cost and what would the unintended consequences include?

Nick Stokes
July 14, 2014 4:15 pm

[snip – off topic – this thread is about water vapor, not methane -mod]

Eve
July 14, 2014 4:18 pm

Not to worry, the Canada clipper is here. Was 14 (57F) this am and maybe 70 this afternoon. Will be colder tomorrow and then it is all moving to the US. Cheers.

July 14, 2014 4:22 pm

The complete combustion of 114g (1 mole) of 2,2,4-trimethyl pentane (isooctane, gasoline equivalent with specific gravity of 0.69) would remove 400g of oxygen from the atmosphere while producing 352g of carbon dioxide and 162g of water. For every gallon of gasoline burned approximately two gallons of water (liquid) are produced. I find it almost humorous that this water is ignored when talking about burning hydrocarbon fuels, but somehow it becomes very important when considering hydrogen as a fuel. It is unimportant in both cases.

July 14, 2014 4:25 pm

This is where we will see the ecogreen actual position: water vapour is “natural”, whereas fossil fuel CO2 is “unnatural”.
The Luddite in the eco-green will accept the bad results of a natural but not of an unnatural: he will accept the blindness and death of Vitamin A deficient 3rd worlders, but not the profit-making technology of Golden Rice.
When God (Nature) smacks people, that is okay.

Evan Jones
Editor
July 14, 2014 4:25 pm

Isn’t water vapour 20 times more potent a greenhouse gas than CO2? Wouldn’t that be bad?
Not on a molecule-to-molecule basis. More important, H2O has almost zero persistence, while CO2 has a very long persistence. Methane is 20+ more potent than CO2 molecule-for-molecule. But methane has only a modest persistence; it abrades in ~12 years, unlike CO2, so it it not the same issue, really.

F. Ross
July 14, 2014 4:28 pm


“…
Just think about what it would be like if all those taxis and private vehicles were emitting H2O (as water vapor).
…”

Years ago, here on WUWT, I brought up exactly this point. A supposedly knowledgeable respondent (who still posts here) informed me that I should not be concerned. Perhaps that respondent, if he remembers his post, would like to reiterate it …or not.