Last weekend, I conducted a poll asking this question that has been on my mind for a couple of years:
Is it time for an “official” climate skeptics organization, one that produces a policy statement, issues press releases, and provides educational guidance?
The results are in, seen below, and there is an interesting dichotomy that can be observed in the excercise.
I’ve closed the poll with a count of 2701 votes. While there was a clearly decisive result, there were over 440 comments on the thread, many of which argued for “no”. A common reason discussed was that “organizing skeptics is like herding cats” or that “it will provide a target”. While that may be true, I really wasn’t all that interested in herding or target practice, I was thinking about representation. By its nature, all representation of varied viewpoints of a group of people is imperfect, but it does have its advantages if that representation satisfies a common need. The common need I see is getting a slowdown on the freight train of bureaucracy that is growing from CAGW claims and more coverage in media.
Pointman writes about the poll results and that dichotomy in Get real, get organised and finish it.
Anthony Watts recently ran a poll at WUWT that posed the question – “Is it time for an “official” climate skeptics organization, one that produces a policy statement, issues press releases, and provides educational guidance?”
I voted “yes” and I’d like to outline my reasons for doing so.
Any scattered and disparate opposition to an unjust law, policy or controversial issue which doesn’t get organised under some umbrella organisation is not only politically naïve but a consequently weak faction which doesn’t need to be taken seriously. More often than not, they’re comfortable in their armchairs living in their own deluded and secluded cloud cuckoo land.
There’s nicer ways of saying it but if want to be a force to be reckoned with, you have to get all ganged up. You seriously want to take on that exploitive employer, get unionised brothers and sisters. You want political change, form a lobby group. You don’t want that wind farm monstrosity blighting your life, start a local campaigning group. You want equal civil rights irrespective of the colour of your ass, start marching en masse. You want women to have the vote, get those bustles out of the drawing rooms and onto the streets as a mob waving placards and make the powers that be listen to you.
There’s simply no other way to get an issue onto the political agenda, and if you happen to think global warming isn’t a political thing, you pop that blue pill brother and dream on.
Give people a standard they can rally to and if the cause has real popular support, they’ll flock to it and become a bigger voice which will be heard despite any attempts to suppress it. Those attempts will just serve to strengthen group identity and make it a much more powerful force.
The deep primordial history of us as a species is all about getting together and cooperation. You might be rubbish at knapping a flint spearhead, but as long as one of the group can do that specialist thing, everyone is happy. Crap at tracking game? No matter, that runty kid over there is somehow brilliant at it. You might just be a spear carrier, but you know you play your part for the good of everyone else. That compulsion to gang up and work together is by now deeply embedded in our DNA. It’s been selected for. Without it, civilisation would fall apart in a day.
The worst thing you can ever do is sit in grumpy isolation doing nothing more than bitching away to a few cronies, and that’s exactly what’s all too common across the skeptic blogosphere. I call it the whinge and dump mentality and in the whole history of the human race, it’s never achieved anything other than being known as a complete bore to be avoided at all costs. Here they come – run away, run away!
As I look at the poll results to date, out of 2,683 votes cast, the response was 63% Yes, 24% No and the rest going for unsure. Scanning through the five hundred comments below the piece, a substantial majority expressed a “No” for various reasons. That’s an interesting dichotomy but an unsurprising one given the web dynamics of such a controversial issue as global warming.
There are just simply too many polarised people on either side who’ve spent years doing nothing more than venting spleen at each other. It’s become a social activity, a recreational pastime, a macho ego trip, a catharsis for a lot of tangential frustrations. Log in quickly, hurl an insult or two and surf onto the next brawl. Underneath the most combative blogs, out of hundreds of comments, barely a single digit percentage of the comments even reference the original blog topic, whatever it was.
Full essay here: http://thepointman.wordpress.com/2014/04/24/get-real-get-organised-and-finish-it/
He’s right, it has become a social spleen venting activity, and that my friends doesn’t get much traction.
This passage:
More often than not, they’re comfortable in their armchairs living in their own deluded and secluded cloud cuckoo land.
There’s nicer ways of saying it but if want to be a force to be reckoned with, you have to get all ganged up.
Could just as easily be used to describe crazy Bill McKibben. Most of us think he’s nuts, and he most likely is. The difference is he got out of his “armchairs living in their own deluded and secluded cloud cuckoo land” and formed 350.org. Now look at what we have, an organization that has successfully lobbied for blocking the Keystone pipeline by affecting the office of presidency. Do you think weepy Bill could do that himself without having organized first?
Think about it, and sound off in comments.

“crazy Bill McKibben… weepy Bill”
Classy as always, Watts.
Magma says:
April 25, 2014 at 11:42 am
““crazy Bill McKibben… weepy Bill”
Classy as always, Watts.”
Do you like “corrupt” or “hypocritical” better?
http://opinion.financialpost.com/2013/02/14/rockefellers-behind-scruffy-little-outfit/
Bill Sticker says:
April 25, 2014 at 10:38 am
“Why on Earth would the use of said term cause arrest, trial, even in absentia and presumably subsequent imprisonment?”
Well maybe not; depends on whether they count as your allies.
My rule of thumb is to avoid any organization that would accept me as a member.
I think the difficulty in creating such an organization is keeping it focused, preventing it from being co-opted by big-money interests and keeping it from being infiltrated by global warming fanatics. How many philanthropic organizations have been taken over by left-wing interests? How many activists have purchased stock in corporations in order to change how the company does business?
Katou says:
April 25, 2014 at 9:39 am
“Why not approach Big Oil ? ”
Because they support the CO2AGW scare. Oil contains less carbon per calorie as coal; Big Oil uses the Green Shocktroops to kill coal.
The East Anglia CRU (workplace of Phil Jones) was funded with money from BP. For instance.
Also, Rockefeller Brothers Foundation pays Weepy Bill McKibben for his hypocritical propaganda.
http://opinion.financialpost.com/2013/02/14/rockefellers-behind-scruffy-little-outfit/
I voted no.
The organization already exists as a self organizing system.
WUWT, Jo Nova, Donna, ect…
If a thing needs doing, word needs spread, money needs raised, it is already getting done.
The best cure for the political derangement of science and public policy is not another political organization.
The activism and mendacity of the UN and their sycophants is destroying their cause.
The measured, reasoned and civil actions of Mr Watts and Mr McIntyre particularly blow the emotional ravings of our activist friends apart.
The role of the one eyed man in the kingdom of the blind is always difficult.
Our power, politically, is our disorganization.
The Alynisky tactics of the professional liars cannot get a grip on the motives of people driven by a belief in the value of truth and the scientific method.
Every attempt to demonize, demean and isolate sceptical questioners of the CAGW Cult has created even more sceptical questioners.
Due to the arrogance and contempt for the public that saturates the “communications” from the Team.
As with The Mann, I could not have invented such characters, the likes of Lew, Glieck, Trenberth, Dana,Cook… What a cast.
Consider the comments on MSM Global Warming/CC articles now.(Where they allow them).
The public has turned and is gonna get ugly.
The policy SNAFU’s are coming to bite the pocketbook of the uninvolved, now the true discussion will begin.
My thoughts are these:
I am not much concerned by the range of leftist vs conservative politics among skeptics. Opposing AGW is necessarily conservative, because the prime reasons we oppose it are first, the abdication of personal responsibility, a conservative value, in the faux science used by alarmists; second, the economic effects of AGW-driven policies, which are based in central planning and are opposed to free markets, a conservative value; and third, the micromanagement of people’s lives needed to meet AGW objectives, a tyranny which contradicts the concept of limited government, another conservative value. Those who subscribe to socialist or other collectivist or authoritarian political philosophies will ultimately be forced to recant their beliefs if they recognize the true import of AGW, how it destroys liberties and economic opportunity. Whether they acknowledge it or not, their beliefs provide the basis for all of the bad aspects of AGW – the dogmatism which suppresses investigation and dissent, the disregard of individual rights which is inevitable if the collective is deemed superior, and the concept of a central elite which knows best. In essence, you cannot be a true skeptic if you follow a leftist party line otherwise.
If we organize we ,must do two things simultaneously which may seem contradictory: take a firm position that AGW is false in all its essentials, and encourage discussion and diversity of particulars as to details. The firm position that AGW is false in its essentials is that climate change is wholly natural and is not materially affected by human activity or carbon dioxide levels; and that the methods by which AGW claims are derived are inconsistent with the scientific method. The diversity and discussion of details is to serve two purposes: to facilitate the gathering of additional evidence to support this basic position, and to assure that errors in details are brought out and corrected. This should leave plenty of room for investigation and give-and-take amongst ourselves on the issue. As for any assertion of dogmatism about taking a firm position, I submit that it is no more dogmatic than declaring that the Earth is not flat. The obvious is not dogma.
This website and others demonstrate that open review is more vigorous than peer review. It seems to me that with some sort of community rating system, especially of reviewers, the skeptical community could put out a professional online journal of climate. To be credible, it would have to be open to both warmist and skeptical literature meeting suitable quality standards. The benefit would be not only a forum for skeptical research, but also a path to publication for scientists who have found themselves blocked.
So when is “The Key to Science March on Washington” or the “Skeptics March on the UN, NYC”? I’ve never demonstrated, but I would fly to that one, and I live in the Baja.
It would be a different kind of “Earth Day”…
J. Philip Peterson says:
April 25, 2014 at 12:25 pm
“It would be a different kind of “Earth Day”…”
Yes. One without any media presence or reporting.
more soylent green! says: April 25, 2014 at 11:59 am
You and Groucho. Shameless lack of attribution 😉
…Now look at what we have, an organization that has successfully lobbied for blocking the Keystone pipeline by affecting the office of presidency. Do you think weepy Bill could do that himself without having organized first?…
Organising, in this sense, means submitting to the will of another, and agreeing to support what he says without thinking. Bill McKibben has had no difficulty finding a lot of people to follow him. Greens are essentially mindless, and have no difficulty obeying him – no matter what he says.
Skeptics, by their nature, are not going to agree to support something they don’t totally agree with. Net result, a Skeptic list of agreement will be very short, and contain little but fundamental principles.
JimBo,
I thought he was Groucho Marx.
I personally think the skeptic side of the argument is winning , slowly but surely. Look at the polling numbers & the trends in the numbers. As the old saying goes : “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” – I think the current skeptic structure (or lack there of) is working just fine – so I would vote No for that reason
I really like the idea of a properly organised, online petition. If supported by all the major websites I’m sure the number of signatories would be impressive. The wording should be spread as wide as possible without becoming meaningless. The size of the thing would demonstrate we are not just a few isolated cranks. This is an important point to make.
Anthony: Could I suggest making a permanent or sticky post for your organization “AGW skeptics organization” or similar because no one is a “climate skeptic” its a non-definition. Ask people to sign up, provide name/blog pseudonym and degrees (if any), position or work, and a 2 sentence reason why and when they became/are skeptical of AGW or do not/never believe(d) in it at all (aka deniers). Im sure you’ve thought of it in any case along something like that. All information personal information (ie names) to be kept personal. I wonder how many would actually sign up. Or you could simply put the AGW skeptics organization in brackets under your main site Whats up with that. After all you’ve got it all set up anyway…
.
No, it would be a huge mistake “to take a firm position that AGW is false in all its essentials.” I think that if the goals of the organization are energy prosperity and human progress, than it will logically follow that the null hypothesis about ‘global warming’ (late 20th-century warming was natural in origin) has to be the starting point, and any claims about AGW requiring us to stop using fossil fuel or institute other draconian measures will have to be demonstrated empirically.
We want to bring the scientific method into the debate, not rule it out with dogma. That’s what the Climatists do!
/Mr Lynn
Mr Lynn says:
April 25, 2014 at 12:49 pm
“No, it would be a huge mistake “to take a firm position that AGW is false in all its essentials.””
Well IF you find ANYONE who still takes IPCC science seriously (and not just as a pretense for global control which it is), then you gotta attack one simple point: The preposterous wiggling around of the IPCC given their models have no predictive skill; and the preposterous notion that public policy should be made following the output of unvalidated models (worse, models that have been shown to be wrong for 17 years straight already).
Nothing ’bout IR absorption or MODTRAN or what have you. Just kick them in the groin; into their models.
DirkH (April 25, 2014 at 12:57 pm): If you start with the null hypothesis, then it’s up to the Climatists to demonstrate that their preposterous models have any predictive skill. No harm in loudly pointing out that they don’t.
/Mr Lynn
WINC: Warming Is Not Catastrophic.
[Note: “pyromancer76” is “beckleybud” and “H Grouse”. He is the same sockpuppet. Banned multiple times. ~mod.]
I note that MikeUK commented:
(My emphasis.)
To all those stating “no” on forming a climate skeptic organization,
for various reasons–IT. DOES. NOT. MATTER.
Whether a formal organization exists, or not, all skeptics are going to
be tarred with the same brush. If you speak up as opposing the almighty
climate consensus, you are going to be called a “loon”, or, “a tool of
Big Oil”, or, in the United States, “funded by the Kochtupus”. This will
be the case for you as individuals. It will be the case for any formal
skeptic organization. Even this blog has already been subjected to that
smear–note the large and well-coordinated response to A. Watts’
interview being aired on a cable TV channel, and the number of vitriolic
claims that he is, in fact, “funded by Big Oil”.
I believe that the huge political pressure being put on by organized
climate alarmists calls for a means of response. I’m sure someone
out there recalls Burke’s statement: “When bad men combine, the
good must associate, or they will fall, unpitied victims in a contemptible
struggle.”
evanjones says:
I do fear having to choose between opposing and embracing an organization which I love but makes me cringe. It would offend my independent mode of inquiry. It would shut me off from access to the other side.
Why would you think that? This would be one more organization. It would not shut anyone off from any access, or stop independent inquiry.
Some of the most perceptive comments are those pointing out that money, and lots of it, will be necessary. That is just the way it is in this brave new millennium. From crosspatch’s points about ‘lawfare’, and the suggestion to Go back into the regulations that have been imposed since, say, 1980 based on various “predictions” of “environmentalists” and start unwinding them. Once the underlying assumptions have been successfully refuted, start removing the piles of regulations built on top of them.
That all takes money.
An umbrella organization would not eliminate any skeptics’ voices or blogs. Rather, it would fill a currently unmet need: a way to provide a recognized source of relevant expertise and credentials in one place, and for lobbying. When someone writes their representative these days, it means little. When an organization with ten thousand dues-paying members contacts representatives, it is orders of magnitude more effective. It is exactly what Greenpeace does, and no one would argue that they are ineffective.
Chad Wozniak makes good points above. In America, polling shows that self-identified conservatives outnumber self-identified liberals by about a 2:1 ratio, and that ratio has remained unchanged for decades. The problem is that most conservatives are out working and raising families, and they don’t spend much time on issues like this. But they certainly oppose the proposed ‘carbon’ taxes, and the flagrant waste of money they see every day, and they know most of it is self-serving. They just need a rallying point.
I would like to see some sort of finger in the wind, where Anthony can gauge the liklihood of:
1. Getting sufficient numbers of highly credible professionals who will add their names, maybe along the lines of the Oregon Petition, and
2. Finding out how many readers here would actually commit to an annual dues payment to fight the anti-science and misinformation in the media. And for ‘lawfare’ when necessary.
Because without those two requirements, we might as well continue as we are.
Skeptics don’t organize. Mr. Watts has visions of grandeur.
richardscourtney says:
April 25, 2014 at 9:06 am
Hence, I suggest the name for the proposed organisation could be something like
Deniers of Unchanging Climate (DUC).
Richard
If it looks like a DUC, talks like a DUC, …
wait,
never mind.
🙂